I want to thank everyone for the words of support here, it's been overwhelming and I'm incredibly greatful. Many have requested evidence, quite rightly, and while it isn't my place to publish what I have but I did share it with trusted media, including Hardware Unboxed who have just published a video that explains the situation well. Here's that video: th-cam.com/video/79ToTB08TY8/w-d-xo.html
You got my sub for not selling out to these bullies. I hope your channel grows to the point you can laugh to their face whenever they stomp the ground like a bunch of bitter kids.
Great video, solid review. What's disappointing is NOT the laptop, as everyone makes a sub-par product from time to time. It's MSI's response to receiving a bad review. It's indefensible that they offered money for you not to post the video, and even worse they got AMD involved. Good on you for sticking to your guns and posting the video anyway. Let me know if you need anything.
I have a GS75, My experience isn't completely bad, but I don't get the ports on the right side thing. I constantly have to angle the laptop so USB ports don't block the movement of the mouse. Also, I thought it was only me, but the per-key RGB keyboard constantly has keys that stop showing certain colors. This also happened on my previous GE73 and I thought it was only that model. This may be a wide-spread issue for many people.
It would be one thing if they offered to send another copy and double check the qc from the first one, not sure I'd trust it wasn't cherry picked if it didn't come from a separate store, but that's a different story. But paying for a review, either to get a good one or to take down a bad one is just plain wrong. I really hope this is just a stupid pr rep from a 3rd party and not actually MSI.
@@DixonYerraz wtf are you talking about, GS and GE are high tier laptops. You should be very happy with them. Even GP lineup is awesome devices. The problem is all those TUF, Bravo, etc devices. They are bad by engineering design and made this way in order to be less attractive than expensive models.
@@antonywhatever572 I'm telling you my exact experience, don't like it? there's nothing I can do about that. performance is great, but the steel series keyboard is bad on both and the port layout is bad for the GS and it uses the same touchpad is bad which uses Intel serial drivers instead of Elan which has terrible right and left click which leaves me to use two finger and one finger taps instead of pressing on the bottom-right or bottom-left. You'd expect more when spending $2K on a laptop...
@@TheLukemcdaniel came from highly trusted large retailers, both retailers are different and based in different locations. other users have experienced the same issues with random key lights going out, I thought in my head it was a one of chance I got something bad from two years ago, but now I'm dealing with it again. It doesn't happen immediately, but over time the keys will go, one by one. before I had before I did the GE, now I have two lights not working right on the GS.
Same, I found this video/channel because of their reaction. I subscribed and will try to keep supporting people who honestly review products, and won't be supporting MSI.
MSI refused my warranty on my 2060 that I purchased from Amazon because apparently Amazon isn't an approved seller in Australia but it literally got sent by themselves. I won't be buying MSI in the future either.
I don't want to sound like an ass and I can totally see big companies doing stuff like that, but are there any proofs or hints to his story and MSI reaction? I read his tweets and couldn't find anything besides the story itself.
@@Borando96 Well we can see the issues that caused him to give the review in this video - especially the heat and trackpad issues. Beyond that there is an element of "X word vs Y" due to the fact that largely prerelease info will still be covered by NDA agreements and sharing emails in total publicly will often have much wider reaching supplier backlashes however when other channels I hold in very high regard like Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed have had similar issues with other manufacturers and are willing to come out batting for him I find it completely credible.
@@Borando96 he can give screenshots and stuff and expose MSI, but he is tech reviewer and don't want to spoil his image by doing so which might show an effect on companies not sending him review units🤷🏻♂️
"The Streisand effect is a social phenomenon that occurs when an attempt to hide, remove, or censor information has the unintended consequence of further publicizing that information, often via the Internet. It is named after American entertainer Barbra Streisand, whose attempt to suppress photographs of her residence in Malibu, California, inadvertently drew further attention to it in 2003." Wikipedia
As an MSI Bravo 15 owner, this review is pretty similar to my everyday experience. After having the laptop for a week, the trackpad is terrible, gaming is definitely not for triple A titles, the screen is definitely not amazing. Overall I honestly don't hate it but I also don't love it.
I also wanted to point out if you checked the built in microphone on the MSI Bravo somehow the monitor is so sensative just touching the screen disconnects the microphone and you touch the screen again the mic works again.
I got the Alpha 15 with the 3750H + 5500M and it ran pretty cool underload (around 70-80C). Can’t believe they make its supposedly successor worst than the previous Alpha.
Bravo for holding your ground. No company makes every product perfect, trying to censor an honest review is unacceptable though. Planned on picking up a Tomahawk MAX. Will look elsewhere now out of principal. MSI, shame on you. TechTeamGB, bravo and keep doing what you're doing. Subbed.
Their laptop and motherboard team acted different though. HUB trashed their early X570 lineup (Gaming Edge and A-Pro) because of poor VRMs. They took it wholeheartedly and released the X570 Tomahawk, which is one of the best X570s out there.
@@woodywolf0309 Everyone makes mistakes but MSI's response to this along with the pattern of responses to other outlets such as GamersNexus and HardwareUnboxed are not. Don't mistake malice for mistakes.
The cooling "solution" is obviously not up to the job and is a design flaw. Thank you for the well thought out review and analysis. It is right that you have raised these issues.
It’s not all covered red. It’s usually just one drunk nut job somewhere in the company that does this kind of stuff. I’ve owned MSI products for a while and they are high quality, and get the job done. The rogue PR employee that did this deserves a jail sentence. Get yourself together MSI, seriously, this was too low.
@@hamzarizvi4378 the worst thing is that MSI has not made a quick response. All they need to say is a single tweet, acknowledging they were wrong, apologising and promising not to do it again. Would have quickly saved their rep and this would have blown over, since usually people have the attention span of a goldfish when it comes to these things. Now, everyone is angry, out for blood and MSI is definetly going to get lashed out at for the next week.
@@BillyTubememe exactly, they could've very very easily, said they dealt with the employee and have enacted changes in their corporate culture to tighten up and make sure this never happens again. As well as obviously pointing out that this has never happened before blah blah bullshit 💩😂
@@BillyTubememe True. Many people including me still can't comprehend why such a successful PC company would have such a reaction. So what if your product had some issues. Fix them! Don't hide them!
at this point, they just don't even care about ryzen 4000 laptop. it's like, they just decided to just have something that check minimum boxes to shows that they listen to amd fans out there. good lord, msi. you're missing the precious bandwagon.
Well... It's not like they could add $300 to the price of this laptop and add more premium components when the GPU is Soo much slower then nvidias.... It's called a price bracket, and maybe if he bought this himself he'd appreciate how much cheaper it was compared to the ones he'd obviously rather have that are almost double the price of this one....
@@cmusic52 But the thing is that there are a couple of others out there that hit the same price point, but manage to do so with components that reach the "tolerable for the price" mark.
@@jammo7370 unfortunately that seems to be a trend with many manufacturers, many Ryzen equipped laptops have a pretty horrible screen when compared to intel equipped laptops.and thats just touching the tip of the iceberg
Just bought an MSI Meg god like for my Ryzen 3950x build. I’ll be returning it and waiting as long as I have to for an Aorus. Their response to your video is ridiculous.
@@oukn6293 they sided with techteam brotha, amd just hasn't come out publicly, I'm sure it would be hard to outright throw up a middle finger at a major partner. No matter what, ie most major US sports leagues
Got sent here by gamers nexus. Earned a new sub today. An honest, thorough reviewer that has strong ethics is a rare thing and I'm happy to support those that are.
Never seen a video of your before homie, but i'm subscribing based on the fact that you wouldn't accept payment to not post this, and won't back down to remove it. Good on you.
I'm sure like many others here, Tech Jesus sent me. His word means something, and he had good words about you. We rely on on folks like yourself in the tech community, to bring us honest, objective content. Subscribed.
Hey man, for sticking your ground and releasing this you earned a sub from me. We need more journalists with integrity. Great Review, keep up the good work.
Found this thru Gamer Nexus MSI topic,.... Great review, my hats off to you sir for sticking with your opinion. I really liked the well informed review. I'll put this channel in may daily routine checking hardware reviews.
(here via GN) - Thanks for the solid review. It's my first time on your channel and your delivery, the details of the review (ie, the points you touched on in the review) and the fact that you're reviewing laptops which seems a bit rare these days has earned you a sub. Keep up the good work :)
Hi. I just found your channel from another vloggers channel talking about you and the MSI situation. Just watched your review. Good job. Glad you stuck to your guns.
Coming from Gamers Nexus Recent video I bought a MSI GL63 9SEK last august and have been using it thoroughly even since the beginning of the year, since now i finally have some time to do stuff on it apart from being at college and doing "college work" on instead now i have time to take up stuff like Blender, Da vinci Resolve as an hobby and play video games . My i7 9750h runs hot just like the one in the Bravo 15 hitting 100c even with a -115v undervolt (thats as far as i could it do it ). I currently have my turbo locked to 3.0Ghz, anything above would tank up the temps to a 100c, even now the laptop manages to hit 95c on certain scenarios and with the airconditioning on 100% of the time (i believe my room temps are quite cool and not at fault here). About the Keyboard, fantastic to use but the LEDs on the keyboard stopped working a few months after i purchased it. The Keyboard on my GL63 is made by Steelseries, i also have a rival 105 ( for those wondering, its available only in the asian market) and that has the same issue as my keyboard and the the left click sensor double clicking. Some more about the shady steelseries, The Rival 105 purchased somewhere around january of this year, Upon waiting almost week for thier support to get back to me regarding my issue Steelseries straight up denied my any help (for the mouse and not for the laptop keyboard that should be dealt my MSI themselves) even with Steelseries having an official presence in my country. So no Refund nor any customer support to have it fixed for me. Back to MSI the trackpad has a similiar issue as the Bravo 15 in this video, unlike the Bravo 15 the trackpad has two seperate buttons for left and right click and the left click is just set depressed downwards just like the Bravo 15 here. I have sent my laptop to the service centre twice now (one time in december and just now last week itself) and both the times they just sent me the laptop as it was without fixing anything. The Emails from the support team at Msi are non existent and call support calls are not picked up most of the time nor are good at being helpful in any sort of way even trying to get a hold of the Support overseer in my region seem like a impossble task (take an exampe of a sekiro boss fight, metaphorically ofcourse) I can understand laptops are very compact and prone to heating much more than that of a desktop but even with all necessary steps of 1.keeping the laptop clean and away from storing dust inside 2. using it in a cool environment when using it under loads 3. performing necessay undervolts but even after doing so i am unable to use the specs to their capacity and with the support handling and the lack of communication from Msi i could only think of buying this laptop as a waste of money especially something that was as expensive as half of my yearly tuition fee at my university. So it just feels like a waste of tech and power wasted on the poor design and manufacturing standards of MSI. I would certainly like to thank Hardware Unboxed, Gamers Nexus and most certainly YOU for keeping your promise as a true and faithful reviewer and for making this video. I strongly hope this will help bring some sort of change Apologies for the mistakes.
Got here from Hardware Unboxed. Good to see the community sticking together. I'm browsing through your videos right now and looks like some good content. Here's hoping you get a lot of clicks in the coming weeks!
Came back to this video after seeing the whole MSI fiasco on my Google news feed... I've been watching your videos for quite some time now and you're the man! I just hate seeing big companies try and use their "muscle" and shut people up. I am glad that you stuck to your guns and didn't back down, it shows the creeps out there that it isn't always easy and they can't buy everything, but also that I for one know I won't be buying any kind of MSI products any time soon if ever again for that matter. Whew what a long one there 😅🙌
Coming here from Gamers Nexus. Good for you, sticking to your guns, and taking the high road when MSI tried to use intimidation to get you to change your review.
Just come over from GN. Been a laptop gamer for years, you hit all the points I would look for in helping to decide which model to buy next. Good solid review +1 sub. I am finally at a stage (no more work travel!) where I can build a desktop again, and was finalising my list this morning. Companies need to realise that how they behave influences whether they get included on those kind of lists.
I have MSI products and they are fine but if this is how the seek to try and operate as a company towards tech youtubers who many of us rely on in determining if the products we want to buy are worth it then there is no point in giving MSI anyone's money. If they make a product that isn't up to par and reviewers show that it isn't good enough then that's on them. They shouldn't try to change anyone's review of the product at all and instead maybe learn from their mistakes - but I guess that's just too hard for them in this case. It's pathetic.
@TechteamGB Hello, Steve sent me here, I have also had problems with MSI bad Design, the MSI Trident (Intel 6th gen) had a terrible flaw where one of the capacitors would go bad after a few months and the unit would either have to have its motherboard replaced or if you knew where it was and had the stones to solder in a new capacitor. I did the latter because I was out of warranty. This particular problem was widespread and they have many pages of people who said that their unit would not turn on unless they used a hairdryer to heat up the area near the cpu on the motherboard (at the time people did not know it was a bad Capacitor).
Driver issues will be part of a laptop that has a new graphics card Radeon RX 5500M. Slowly but steadily with multiple Windows and AMD Radeon updates would sort out all issues. Startup issues: Started the laptop and continued with Windows 1 0 set-up, I was greeted with a blue screen of death (BSOD) two times during the process. Once I was in windows immediately went for a fresh start option for a clean new Windows 1 0 installation. Most of the junk software got removed and had barely Windows 10 without drivers. Installed drivers from MSI website and updated Windows 10 1909 build. No more BSOD issues. Initially sound will be less once you install audio drivers and Nahimic software from MS Store. The speakers will be very loud after this update. I am not excepting the speakers to have all the nuances of bass and treble in a gaming laptop but sounds better than the most laptop. The keyboard is too soft for me and needs some time to getting used to for better typing. Will update the post about issues and user experience after some more days of gaming and day-to-day work. Update: Day 5 (June 30, 2020) - Screen freeze issue: Downloaded and updated EC firmware and BIOS update from MSI website. Updated Windows 10 to 2004 may release using windows upgrade assistant. Re-installed Radeon software lite to 2020 Adrenalin edition. Do not install or upgrade any other version other than 19.30.31.24 as mentioned in MSI VGA driver section. Installing or upgrading other versions will break the graphics driver setting only VEGA graphics will be working. May be EC firmware is not supporting the latest 20.1.4 version. Disable Game mode in Windows 10. Would solve the screen shutter and freeze issue forever. TIP: In case you want to remove existing Radeon Graphics drivers use AMD Cleanup Utility. Source : From a fellow user on Flipkart (IN)
it's a little weird that a little after one of MSI's ceo's died they're brand and reputation goes to shit. Im glad JayzTwoCents mentioned you in his newest video!
You just need to adjust your processor power %100 to %99 and degrees wont exceed 85 degree stop misleading people there is no way degrees are 95 or something else
I bought a brand new MSI X399 MEG Creation motherboard on Amazon last week (-$500), after getting burned on buying a cheaper used version prior that didn't post, returned that un-working used MB back to Amazon. I was desperate to get another used one from ebay when an all-new version showed up on Amazon which I jumped right on it. Received it within a week, hooked it up. The MB posted, but it did not read all 4 of my 4x16GB DDR4 3000 memory sticks so instead of 64GB, I was getting 49152MB at 2100MHz. Could not turn on any XMP. Tested each DIMM channel with a single stick and saw the system would not post at all with a DIMM in C2. I had no issues with these same DRAM sticks used on my previous MSI X399 SLI Plus motherboard that I was trying to upgrade from. So now I'm RMA'ing the motherboard, can't help but wonder how does this stuff get past quality and assurance testing.
I won’t buy MSI anything after I bought a new GS63VR about 3 years ago and the laptop literally turned into a lemon after 5 months of ownership. Customer service was atrocious at best and I was stuck $1,500 in the hole with a broken laptop.
I watched your review after GN did the piece on MSI's underhanded practices. I am proud you stood your ground and posted your review. We need all our reviewers to have the same scruples as you and a few other tech tubers.
Sorry to hear you're going through this. Hopefully MSI learns from this because this type of interaction shouldn't happen from a company of MSI's scale.
Hmmmm... seems like a lot of manufacturers will try and silence bad reviews by throwing money at reviewers, glad there are still honest reviewers who still have morals left today👍
I have had bad experiences with MSI for warranties in the past and after hearing about the unfortunate debaccle you've been through regarding this review from several other reviewrs, I had to watch it myself. As Craft Computing said (I follow him as well), this is a solid and fair review. The way MSi have acted is the final nail in the coffin for them, I won't be recommending them to any friends or building anything with them again. You sir have earned another subscriber, not because of the debaccle, but because this is a solid and clearly honest review and I look forward to enjoying another source of reliable tech info.
I’m coming from Gamers Nexus and I just subscribed to you. Independent media should be praised above everything else in tech reviews. We are by your side. Fuck MSI, I’m never buying anything from them again.
This laptop chassis came from the GF 63 series. The major difference in GF 65 is only one tiny extra fan. Bravo 15 is same thing. Even GF 63 with 1650 max-q has terrible cpu performance. CPU power throttles not because of the chassis but because of the dragon center software, yes you read that right. They allegedly limited the power of a 45w TDP cpu to 25w to get over with high temps. I did some bios changes to set it to normal, earlier cpu clock speed was not stable, it runs between 2.9ghz to 3.5. After tweaking, its running @4ghz but cpu temps are terrible 95-97C even at highest fan speeds so what i have to do is limit the clock speed to 3.3 ghz tho gpu because of only 35watt max tdp, its runs cool.
This is what is needed from a review. Facts and honesty. There are too many reviewers whose reviews are shaped after how much money/what free hardware they get.
As a MSI Bravo 15 user I agree with most of disapointing points. I choiced it only for the 4800h and its price (1000€ is pretty cheap for laptops with 4800h). Usage : I use it only for C++ 2d/3d development and the 4800h is a beast in multithreaded compilation. I personnaly own a 3700x and it´s quite similar for c++ dev. I use this laptop with external screens, external sound card, gaming mice and mechanical keyboard. My nomade usage is very limited ... Feedbacks : - the screen for development/office isn´t bad. - keyboard is ok for a portable device - thickness is correct - 16gb 3200mhz is correct for amd ryzen. I would appreciate a 32gb option ... - high cpu temperature ~95c after many minutes of 100% cpu usage (16 threads compilation), up to 4ghz. Less than 10sec after the high cpu usage it goes back to decent temperature. The case itself is not hot while heavy cpu usage. And it´s quiet silent. - more I/O would be better imo - battery life isn´t as good as MSI promise even if the 4800h is a 45W cpu ... - touchpad is fucking horrible ... Maybe the worst I ever used - sound is bad even for a laptop ... Don´t buy it if you want to play video games. But if you only need a cheap laptop with decent cpu ... it will do the job. As many of you, I´m waiting for the MSI reactions :)
Very believable and honest review of this product. I own a high end MSI laptop and it's not much better. It's spec'd better but has so many issues that I will NEVER EVER buy anything MSI again. After 3-4 products now in many different areas, there just not to be recommended in their current state. Again like you it's my OPINION ! Adding on top or them becoming cheaper "feeling and or using wise unpleasent" with seemingly there now entire product line, this company needs a complete reboot. The fact that they asked to tone down your very opinion of said product, means only that their very aware of their very own quality issues. Otherwise this review would've been meaningless...
U missing out bro Msi got some pretty good stuff compared to this product. Gotta go for the higher ones if tryna get good quality. Basically u get what u pay for in someway 🤷♂️
To be fair, their mobile division is likely separate from their other divisions (motherboard, graphics cards etc.) so I'm not sure that people working in their other divisions should suffer due to the bad behavior of a different team. Hardware Unboxed made a criticizing review of one of MSI's motherboards and then MSI's motherboard division fixed their mistake and came out with another version of it which had the problems fixed. I understand what you mean though. Maybe just boycott their mobile products? 😄
I want to thank everyone for the words of support here, it's been overwhelming and I'm incredibly greatful. Many have requested evidence, quite rightly, and while it isn't my place to publish what I have but I did share it with trusted media, including Hardware Unboxed who have just published a video that explains the situation well. Here's that video: th-cam.com/video/79ToTB08TY8/w-d-xo.html
You got my sub for not selling out to these bullies. I hope your channel grows to the point you can laugh to their face whenever they stomp the ground like a bunch of bitter kids.
Same straight here from HUB video. You have the full support the community. Look forward to your future content.
Uou get my support in form of subbing
Don't be bullied, keep up the good work
Never heard of you before but I will sub to any HONEST reviewer, you have my sub ;)
Subscribed and liked this video to give support!
Great video, solid review. What's disappointing is NOT the laptop, as everyone makes a sub-par product from time to time. It's MSI's response to receiving a bad review. It's indefensible that they offered money for you not to post the video, and even worse they got AMD involved.
Good on you for sticking to your guns and posting the video anyway. Let me know if you need anything.
I have a GS75, My experience isn't completely bad, but I don't get the ports on the right side thing. I constantly have to angle the laptop so USB ports don't block the movement of the mouse. Also, I thought it was only me, but the per-key RGB keyboard constantly has keys that stop showing certain colors. This also happened on my previous GE73 and I thought it was only that model. This may be a wide-spread issue for many people.
It would be one thing if they offered to send another copy and double check the qc from the first one, not sure I'd trust it wasn't cherry picked if it didn't come from a separate store, but that's a different story. But paying for a review, either to get a good one or to take down a bad one is just plain wrong.
I really hope this is just a stupid pr rep from a 3rd party and not actually MSI.
@@DixonYerraz wtf are you talking about, GS and GE are high tier laptops. You should be very happy with them. Even GP lineup is awesome devices.
The problem is all those TUF, Bravo, etc devices. They are bad by engineering design and made this way in order to be less attractive than expensive models.
@@antonywhatever572 I'm telling you my exact experience, don't like it? there's nothing I can do about that. performance is great, but the steel series keyboard is bad on both and the port layout is bad for the GS and it uses the same touchpad is bad which uses Intel serial drivers instead of Elan which has terrible right and left click which leaves me to use two finger and one finger taps instead of pressing on the bottom-right or bottom-left. You'd expect more when spending $2K on a laptop...
@@TheLukemcdaniel came from highly trusted large retailers, both retailers are different and based in different locations. other users have experienced the same issues with random key lights going out, I thought in my head it was a one of chance I got something bad from two years ago, but now I'm dealing with it again. It doesn't happen immediately, but over time the keys will go, one by one. before I had before I did the GE, now I have two lights not working right on the GS.
MSI's reaction to this puts me off their products - Disappointing
Same, I found this video/channel because of their reaction. I subscribed and will try to keep supporting people who honestly review products, and won't be supporting MSI.
MSI refused my warranty on my 2060 that I purchased from Amazon because apparently Amazon isn't an approved seller in Australia but it literally got sent by themselves. I won't be buying MSI in the future either.
I don't want to sound like an ass and I can totally see big companies doing stuff like that, but are there any proofs or hints to his story and MSI reaction? I read his tweets and couldn't find anything besides the story itself.
@@Borando96 Well we can see the issues that caused him to give the review in this video - especially the heat and trackpad issues.
Beyond that there is an element of "X word vs Y" due to the fact that largely prerelease info will still be covered by NDA agreements and sharing emails in total publicly will often have much wider reaching supplier backlashes however when other channels I hold in very high regard like Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed have had similar issues with other manufacturers and are willing to come out batting for him I find it completely credible.
@@Borando96 he can give screenshots and stuff and expose MSI, but he is tech reviewer and don't want to spoil his image by doing so which might show an effect on companies not sending him review units🤷🏻♂️
I'm just here for the Streisand Effect
Likewise, gotta keep the true voice as such upvoted and be seen
Same
Same. Got a sub from me.
"The Streisand effect is a social phenomenon that occurs when an attempt to hide, remove, or censor information has the unintended consequence of further publicizing that information, often via the Internet. It is named after American entertainer Barbra Streisand, whose attempt to suppress photographs of her residence in Malibu, California, inadvertently drew further attention to it in 2003." Wikipedia
Me4
As an MSI Bravo 15 owner, this review is pretty similar to my everyday experience. After having the laptop for a week, the trackpad is terrible, gaming is definitely not for triple A titles, the screen is definitely not amazing. Overall I honestly don't hate it but I also don't love it.
Did you return it or past the date ? just looking at it tells me it's going randomly die on you when need it the most.
Same experience as a MSI GF65 owner, yes track pad is shit, same I don't hate it nor love it but have to live with it🤷🏻♂️
Man I got this in june and I hear yeah the same feeling.
I also wanted to point out if you checked the built in microphone on the MSI Bravo somehow the monitor is so sensative just touching the screen disconnects the microphone and you touch the screen again the mic works again.
I got the Alpha 15 with the 3750H + 5500M and it ran pretty cool underload (around 70-80C). Can’t believe they make its supposedly successor worst than the previous Alpha.
The review MSI doesn't want you to see - literally.
That would have been the perfect title.
Hey, nice seeing the YT tech community being ethical.
and your videos are great.
This high quality content really deserves some more views!
agreed
Bravo for holding your ground. No company makes every product perfect, trying to censor an honest review is unacceptable though.
Planned on picking up a Tomahawk MAX. Will look elsewhere now out of principal.
MSI, shame on you.
TechTeamGB, bravo and keep doing what you're doing. Subbed.
Man Tomahawk MAX is an awesome board. You can't deny that they make some great boards. They just made a bad laptop, everyone makes mistakes
Their laptop and motherboard team acted different though. HUB trashed their early X570 lineup (Gaming Edge and A-Pro) because of poor VRMs. They took it wholeheartedly and released the X570 Tomahawk, which is one of the best X570s out there.
@@woodywolf0309 Everyone makes mistakes but MSI's response to this along with the pattern of responses to other outlets such as GamersNexus and HardwareUnboxed are not. Don't mistake malice for mistakes.
The cooling "solution" is obviously not up to the job and is a design flaw. Thank you for the well thought out review and analysis. It is right that you have raised these issues.
Very solid review, Kudos for maintaining your integrity with what happened with this review.
Hope MSI people are reading this so they know I won't be buying any more of their crap going forward 😊. Great video, mate
Not even the graphics card from msi?
It’s not all covered red. It’s usually just one drunk nut job somewhere in the company that does this kind of stuff. I’ve owned MSI products for a while and they are high quality, and get the job done. The rogue PR employee that did this deserves a jail sentence. Get yourself together MSI, seriously, this was too low.
@@hamzarizvi4378 the worst thing is that MSI has not made a quick response. All they need to say is a single tweet, acknowledging they were wrong, apologising and promising not to do it again. Would have quickly saved their rep and this would have blown over, since usually people have the attention span of a goldfish when it comes to these things. Now, everyone is angry, out for blood and MSI is definetly going to get lashed out at for the next week.
@@BillyTubememe exactly, they could've very very easily, said they dealt with the employee and have enacted changes in their corporate culture to tighten up and make sure this never happens again. As well as obviously pointing out that this has never happened before blah blah bullshit 💩😂
@@BillyTubememe True. Many people including me still can't comprehend why such a successful PC company would have such a reaction. So what if your product had some issues. Fix them! Don't hide them!
at this point, they just don't even care about ryzen 4000 laptop. it's like, they just decided to just have something that check minimum boxes to shows that they listen to amd fans out there. good lord, msi. you're missing the precious bandwagon.
He had a Tweet storm about it today. AMD took his side vs MSI over this review.
MSI have been Intel shills for awhile now
Well... It's not like they could add $300 to the price of this laptop and add more premium components when the GPU is Soo much slower then nvidias.... It's called a price bracket, and maybe if he bought this himself he'd appreciate how much cheaper it was compared to the ones he'd obviously rather have that are almost double the price of this one....
@@cmusic52 But the thing is that there are a couple of others out there that hit the same price point, but manage to do so with components that reach the "tolerable for the price" mark.
@@jammo7370 unfortunately that seems to be a trend with many manufacturers, many Ryzen equipped laptops have a pretty horrible screen when compared to intel equipped laptops.and thats just touching the tip of the iceberg
I wish there were more 17" Ryzen 4000 Laptops out! Thanks for this review :)
Sorry you have to suffer through MSi’s strong arming. You do quality and honest content. Subbed.
I’m here from GN and you do a great job. Good for you standing up to these companies. When a product is bad it’s just bad!
Steve sent me here. Thx for doing the right thing
I think you mean Beve Sturk.
Just bought an MSI Meg god like for my Ryzen 3950x build. I’ll be returning it and waiting as long as I have to for an Aorus. Their response to your video is ridiculous.
You forgot return the Ryzen also
@@oukn6293 they sided with techteam brotha, amd just hasn't come out publicly, I'm sure it would be hard to outright throw up a middle finger at a major partner. No matter what, ie most major US sports leagues
Buy Asus ROG Strix Crosshair VIII X570 Formula
Get a asus b550f instead m8.
Subbed after seeing your twitter post on r/hardware :)
Steve from GamersNexus sent me here. Keep fighting the good fight!
Just want to say that Im here because of GN highlighting your disagreements with MSI. Here to support you!
Rob S I second that. Subbed to support honest reviews.
Came over after hearing about MSI's response to you from Bitwit and Paul. Good for you for sticking to your guns. Subscribed.
Got sent here by gamers nexus. Earned a new sub today. An honest, thorough reviewer that has strong ethics is a rare thing and I'm happy to support those that are.
wouldn't even have heard about this review if not for how MSI handled it, but now i'm here and def not buying MSI
Never seen a video of your before homie, but i'm subscribing based on the fact that you wouldn't accept payment to not post this, and won't back down to remove it.
Good on you.
Thanks!
Likewise for me
Same for me
I'm sure like many others here, Tech Jesus sent me. His word means something, and he had good words about you. We rely on on folks like yourself in the tech community, to bring us honest, objective content. Subscribed.
Seconded. Commenting mainly to show engagement (for the algorithm).
Hey man, for sticking your ground and releasing this you earned a sub from me. We need more journalists with integrity.
Great Review, keep up the good work.
Streisand effect incoming in 3....2....1
Found this thru Gamer Nexus MSI topic,.... Great review, my hats off to you sir for sticking with your opinion. I really liked the well informed review. I'll put this channel in may daily routine checking hardware reviews.
Just a random passerby after watching GN video. Thanks for doing what you do and not submitting to threats.
It seems that every Ryzen laptop has poor fan vents and then the Intel ones are all open....
Yes
Expect Lenovo legion 5, 7, & y7000se
(here via GN) - Thanks for the solid review. It's my first time on your channel and your delivery, the details of the review (ie, the points you touched on in the review) and the fact that you're reviewing laptops which seems a bit rare these days has earned you a sub. Keep up the good work :)
Keep fighting ... I only subscribed because you put up a fight and stood for what u believe in ... all the support ....
Found you through GN. Subscribed. Honesty wins.
Hi. I just found your channel from another vloggers channel talking about you and the MSI situation. Just watched your review. Good job. Glad you stuck to your guns.
Coming from Gamers Nexus Recent video
I bought a MSI GL63 9SEK last august and have been using it thoroughly even since the beginning of the year, since now i finally have some time to do stuff on it apart from being at college and doing "college work" on instead now i have time to take up stuff like Blender, Da vinci Resolve as an hobby and play video games .
My i7 9750h runs hot just like the one in the Bravo 15 hitting 100c even with a -115v undervolt (thats as far as i could it do it ). I currently have my turbo locked to 3.0Ghz, anything above would tank up the temps to a 100c, even now the laptop manages to hit 95c on certain scenarios and with the airconditioning on 100% of the time (i believe my room temps are quite cool and not at fault here). About the Keyboard, fantastic to use but the LEDs on the keyboard stopped working a few months after i purchased it. The Keyboard on my GL63 is made by Steelseries, i also have a rival 105
( for those wondering, its available only in the asian market) and that has the same issue as my keyboard and the the left click sensor double clicking. Some more about the shady steelseries, The Rival 105 purchased somewhere around january of this year, Upon waiting almost week for thier support to get back to me regarding my issue Steelseries straight up denied my any help (for the mouse and not for the laptop keyboard that should be dealt my MSI themselves) even with Steelseries having an official presence in my country. So no Refund nor any customer support to have it fixed for me.
Back to MSI
the trackpad has a similiar issue as the Bravo 15 in this video, unlike the Bravo 15 the trackpad has two seperate buttons for left and right click and the left click is just set depressed downwards just like the Bravo 15 here. I have sent my laptop to the service centre twice now (one time in december and just now last week itself) and both the times they just sent me the laptop as it was without fixing anything. The Emails from the support team at Msi are non existent and call support calls are not picked up most of the time nor are good at being helpful in any sort of way
even trying to get a hold of the Support overseer in my region seem like a impossble task (take an exampe of a sekiro boss fight, metaphorically ofcourse)
I can understand laptops are very compact and prone to heating much more than that of a desktop but even with all necessary steps of
1.keeping the laptop clean and away from storing dust inside 2. using it in a cool environment when using it under loads 3. performing necessay undervolts but even after doing so i am unable to use the specs to their capacity and with the support handling and the lack of communication from Msi i could only think of buying this laptop as a waste of money especially something that was as expensive as half of my yearly tuition fee at my university. So it just feels like a waste of tech and power wasted on the poor design and manufacturing standards of MSI.
I would certainly like to thank Hardware Unboxed, Gamers Nexus and most certainly YOU for keeping your promise as a true and faithful reviewer and for making this video. I strongly hope this will help bring some sort of change
Apologies for the mistakes.
thanks a ton for honest review mate!!
Got here from Hardware Unboxed. Good to see the community sticking together. I'm browsing through your videos right now and looks like some good content. Here's hoping you get a lot of clicks in the coming weeks!
Came back to this video after seeing the whole MSI fiasco on my Google news feed... I've been watching your videos for quite some time now and you're the man! I just hate seeing big companies try and use their "muscle" and shut people up. I am glad that you stuck to your guns and didn't back down, it shows the creeps out there that it isn't always easy and they can't buy everything, but also that I for one know I won't be buying any kind of MSI products any time soon if ever again for that matter. Whew what a long one there 😅🙌
Coming here from Gamers Nexus. Good for you, sticking to your guns, and taking the high road when MSI tried to use intimidation to get you to change your review.
Great review man! Great editing 👌
Hi from GN I liked and subscribed. Keep up the good honest work.
Good review dude and well done for not backing down. Loved Steve from gamer nexus backing you up in his vids and you have a new sub because of it 👍
Came over from GN... will subscribe also... Keep up the good work
Just come over from GN. Been a laptop gamer for years, you hit all the points I would look for in helping to decide which model to buy next. Good solid review +1 sub.
I am finally at a stage (no more work travel!) where I can build a desktop again, and was finalising my list this morning. Companies need to realise that how they behave influences whether they get included on those kind of lists.
I have MSI products and they are fine but if this is how the seek to try and operate as a company towards tech youtubers who many of us rely on in determining if the products we want to buy are worth it then there is no point in giving MSI anyone's money. If they make a product that isn't up to par and reviewers show that it isn't good enough then that's on them. They shouldn't try to change anyone's review of the product at all and instead maybe learn from their mistakes - but I guess that's just too hard for them in this case. It's pathetic.
@TechteamGB Hello, Steve sent me here, I have also had problems with MSI bad Design, the MSI Trident (Intel 6th gen) had a terrible flaw where one of the capacitors would go bad after a few months and the unit would either have to have its motherboard replaced or if you knew where it was and had the stones to solder in a new capacitor. I did the latter because I was out of warranty. This particular problem was widespread and they have many pages of people who said that their unit would not turn on unless they used a hairdryer to heat up the area near the cpu on the motherboard (at the time people did not know it was a bad Capacitor).
Telling the truth is so rare in today's world. Respect for your honest review.
Steve at GN sent me, and I sub'd. Keep up the good work, fight back.
This video just earned you another sub. I'm here through GN, btw.
Just subscribed and ordered the next gen bravo b55dd!thanks for the review!
Driver issues will be part of a laptop that has a new graphics card Radeon RX 5500M. Slowly but steadily with multiple Windows and AMD Radeon updates would sort out all issues.
Startup issues:
Started the laptop and continued with Windows 1 0 set-up, I was greeted with a blue screen of death (BSOD) two times during the process. Once I was in windows immediately went for a fresh start option for a clean new Windows 1 0 installation. Most of the junk software got removed and had barely Windows 10 without drivers. Installed drivers from MSI website and updated Windows 10 1909 build. No more BSOD issues. Initially sound will be less once you install audio drivers and Nahimic software from MS Store. The speakers will be very loud after this update. I am not excepting the speakers to have all the nuances of bass and treble in a gaming laptop but sounds better than the most laptop. The keyboard is too soft for me and needs some time to getting used to for better typing.
Will update the post about issues and user experience after some more days of gaming and day-to-day work.
Update: Day 5 (June 30, 2020) - Screen freeze issue: Downloaded and updated EC firmware and BIOS update from MSI website. Updated Windows 10 to 2004 may release using windows upgrade assistant. Re-installed
Radeon software lite to 2020 Adrenalin edition. Do not install or upgrade any other version other than 19.30.31.24 as mentioned in MSI VGA driver section. Installing or upgrading other versions will break the graphics driver setting only VEGA graphics will be working. May be EC firmware is not supporting the latest 20.1.4 version. Disable Game mode in Windows 10. Would solve the screen shutter and freeze issue forever.
TIP: In case you want to remove existing Radeon Graphics drivers use AMD Cleanup Utility.
Source : From a fellow user on Flipkart (IN)
Brother keep posting honest reviews, thanks for not falling for the money.
Supporter from India
Much respect for not backing down
Thanks for the honest review! Came here and subbed after the segment that Kyle & Paul did on your review/MSI's reaction.
it's a little weird that a little after one of MSI's ceo's died they're brand and reputation goes to shit. Im glad JayzTwoCents mentioned you in his newest video!
Came here after hearing about this from The Wan Show and Awesome Hardware. keep up the great work!
Here from hardware unboxed, giving you a sub based on this video and it's ramifications.
I hope that the integrity you've shown as an independent reviewer brings you more viewership.
Keep the good working 💪, we support you around the world.
You just need to adjust your processor power %100 to %99 and degrees wont exceed 85 degree stop misleading people there is no way degrees are 95 or something else
Hi MSI, just so you know, I was brought here because of your bad behaviour. Will no longer consider buying your products.
Same here
great vidio... hope you can keep making this kind of vidio to the future...keep the good job...
Subscribed if only for the fact that you stood up to the big guy and kept your ethics intact. Keep up the great work!
Subbed for integrity! This is a very solid and reasonable review. Look forward to seeing more from you.
Well done!
I bought a brand new MSI X399 MEG Creation motherboard on Amazon last week (-$500), after getting burned on buying a cheaper used version prior that didn't post, returned that un-working used MB back to Amazon.
I was desperate to get another used one from ebay when an all-new version showed up on Amazon which I jumped right on it. Received it within a week, hooked it up. The MB posted, but it did not read all 4 of my 4x16GB DDR4 3000 memory sticks so instead of 64GB, I was getting 49152MB at 2100MHz. Could not turn on any XMP. Tested each DIMM channel with a single stick and saw the system would not post at all with a DIMM in C2.
I had no issues with these same DRAM sticks used on my previous MSI X399 SLI Plus motherboard that I was trying to upgrade from.
So now I'm RMA'ing the motherboard, can't help but wonder how does this stuff get past quality and assurance testing.
Just saw an article about your situation. I subbed.
I won’t buy MSI anything after I bought a new GS63VR about 3 years ago and the laptop literally turned into a lemon after 5 months of ownership. Customer service was atrocious at best and I was stuck $1,500 in the hole with a broken laptop.
Same got you a sub from GN here! Never buying MSI again until they publicly come out take their mea culpa and vow to change and actually do so.
I watched your review after GN did the piece on MSI's underhanded practices. I am proud you stood your ground and posted your review. We need all our reviewers to have the same scruples as you and a few other tech tubers.
Thanks for standing your ground. Your are a trusted channel Forsure
This is the way you earn you viewer's respect!! Subbed!!
Just found out about you, nothing much i can do except for subscribe for an honest reviewer :)
I subbed because of the honesty of this reviewer and channel. Well done for not taking the MSI bribe.
Referred here from @GamerNexus.
Well done to @TechTeamGB to standing up to MSI's frankly bizarre way of handling a poor product.
Who else is just here because they saw the breakdown on twitter, got pissed off and came here to like the vid and show support...
Sorry to hear you're going through this. Hopefully MSI learns from this because this type of interaction shouldn't happen from a company of MSI's scale.
Great to keep ethics! Subscribed because of a person willing to stand up to the man
A like and sub for your integrity here. Well done!
Hmmmm... seems like a lot of manufacturers will try and silence bad reviews by throwing money at reviewers, glad there are still honest reviewers who still have morals left today👍
I have had bad experiences with MSI for warranties in the past and after hearing about the unfortunate debaccle you've been through regarding this review from several other reviewrs, I had to watch it myself. As Craft Computing said (I follow him as well), this is a solid and fair review. The way MSi have acted is the final nail in the coffin for them, I won't be recommending them to any friends or building anything with them again. You sir have earned another subscriber, not because of the debaccle, but because this is a solid and clearly honest review and I look forward to enjoying another source of reliable tech info.
Great overview, thank you.
I’m coming from Gamers Nexus and I just subscribed to you. Independent media should be praised above everything else in tech reviews. We are by your side. Fuck MSI, I’m never buying anything from them again.
I am new to your channel - Keep up the solid work - It takes good character to post honest reviews these days - Keep up the good work !
Great video!!! I will now watch every channel and buy some merch
I think you should continue reviewing them and give some comments on their attitude whenever you do.
subbed for telling it like it really is and not bending to corporate pressure.
Thank You for the honesty! Dont be bullied. +1 sub
This laptop chassis came from the
GF 63 series. The major difference in GF 65 is only one tiny extra fan. Bravo 15 is same thing. Even GF 63 with 1650 max-q has terrible cpu performance. CPU power throttles not because of the chassis but because of the dragon center software, yes you read that right. They allegedly limited the power of a 45w TDP cpu to 25w to get over with high temps. I did some bios changes to set it to normal, earlier cpu clock speed was not stable, it runs between 2.9ghz to 3.5. After tweaking, its running @4ghz but cpu temps are terrible 95-97C even at highest fan speeds so what i have to do is limit the clock speed to 3.3 ghz tho gpu because of only 35watt max tdp, its runs cool.
Can I buy this MSI bravo 15 or m1 mackbook air
Please reply
I'm waiting
This is what is needed from a review. Facts and honesty. There are too many reviewers whose reviews are shaped after how much money/what free hardware they get.
Your video hit my twitter feed. Keep up the HONEST reviews. Honesty goes a long way.
Came here and subbed, found the channel via GN :)
I appreciate your honesty and I have subscribed!
As a MSI Bravo 15 user I agree with most of disapointing points. I choiced it only for the 4800h and its price (1000€ is pretty cheap for laptops with 4800h).
Usage :
I use it only for C++ 2d/3d development and the 4800h is a beast in multithreaded compilation. I personnaly own a 3700x and it´s quite similar for c++ dev.
I use this laptop with external screens, external sound card, gaming mice and mechanical keyboard.
My nomade usage is very limited
...
Feedbacks :
- the screen for development/office isn´t bad.
- keyboard is ok for a portable device
- thickness is correct
- 16gb 3200mhz is correct for amd ryzen. I would appreciate a 32gb option ...
- high cpu temperature ~95c after many minutes of 100% cpu usage (16 threads compilation), up to 4ghz. Less than 10sec after the high cpu usage it goes back to decent temperature. The case itself is not hot while heavy cpu usage. And it´s quiet silent.
- more I/O would be better imo
- battery life isn´t as good as MSI promise even if the 4800h is a 45W cpu ...
- touchpad is fucking horrible ... Maybe the worst I ever used
- sound is bad even for a laptop ...
Don´t buy it if you want to play video games. But if you only need a cheap laptop with decent cpu ... it will do the job.
As many of you, I´m waiting for the MSI reactions :)
Very believable and honest review of this product. I own a high end MSI laptop and it's not much better. It's spec'd better but has so many issues that I will NEVER EVER buy anything MSI again. After 3-4 products now in many different areas, there just not to be recommended in their current state. Again like you it's my OPINION ! Adding on top or them becoming cheaper "feeling and or using wise unpleasent" with seemingly there now entire product line, this company needs a complete reboot. The fact that they asked to tone down your very opinion of said product, means only that their very aware of their very own quality issues. Otherwise this review would've been meaningless...
Subbed from seeing HUB vid. Keep it real TechteamGB.
Just heard about this on awesome hardware, subbed! Good work!
I dont buy Msi products and not about to start now.
Great review btw
U missing out bro Msi got some pretty good stuff compared to this product. Gotta go for the higher ones if tryna get good quality. Basically u get what u pay for in someway 🤷♂️
Don't usually buy MSI products. Now I'm convinced that I never will. Their PR team needs to be fired. Nice honest review!
To be fair, their mobile division is likely separate from their other divisions (motherboard, graphics cards etc.) so I'm not sure that people working in their other divisions should suffer due to the bad behavior of a different team. Hardware Unboxed made a criticizing review of one of MSI's motherboards and then MSI's motherboard division fixed their mistake and came out with another version of it which had the problems fixed. I understand what you mean though. Maybe just boycott their mobile products? 😄
@@bgtubber Their management team obviously knows about it. You think the payout money comes from someone who just works there?
Came here because of the video by Gamers Nexus exposing MSI's bad habits. Stayed and subscribed because of the quality content :)