08:48 I'd like to give some more detail, as well as ask for details if you guys have any. In this part, I mentioned that BQ's appearance resembles de Capet more than MA. Still, we could not forget how BQ's neck had a decapitated scar, similar to that of MA and not de Capet. Also, when BQ got stunned, her animation was holding her head so it wouldn't fall off. Considering this, BQ's appearance was that of MA. But when we look deeper into BQ's biography, it is said that BQ has the appearance of a 14-year-old girl (Japanese reference book vol. 2). Yet she has white hair. MA's hair was blonde when she was 14 years old. Also, her skin "promised day" was heavily based on de Capet's wedding dress. As for Alice, she could hallucinate both MA and de Capet, but given that both Orphy and Alice were talking about de Capet, maybe Alice was thinking of de Capet at that point? It could also be concluded that Mary de Capet was seeing herself as Marie Antoinette, making her default appearance a metaphor for Marie Antoinette. Honestly, I need some more insight into this. Do you think BQ's appearance resembles that of Marie Antoinette in Mary de Capet?
Oh I was waiting for this one comment. Her design story mentions it, yep. The red dress is also caused by blood flowing from her decapitated head. Given only that, I would believe that BQ physical appearance would match that MA. However, I began to wonder when I saw her once series skin, some other skins (last dance, for example), as well as Mary de Capet's lore. Though in the end, I can't be 100% certain if Mary's physical appearance would match that of De Capet (except for her once skin). It just appeared to me that, connecting her physical appearance with the story, as well as her once skin, the BQ'S physical appearance would suit Mary de Capet's more rather than that of Marie Antoinette (including the fact that the BQ's appearance was of a 14 years old with white hair, while Marie Antoinette's hair at around that time is still blonde) I want to hear more about this tbh, if anyone has any other opinion.
@@SilminaIDVi don't think BQ appearance was supposed to be the 14 year old Marie. With her white hair it's a reference to Marie Antoinette own execution where People allegedly said Her Hair have turn white overnight. (Search Marie Antoinette syndrome for more info if you want)
@@sanest-luchino-fanI already know of that syndrome. As to how Mary was 14 years old, you can check the IDV reference book vol. 2. It is clearly stated that Mary has the appearance of a 14 year old girl
@@SilminaIDVwell if that's the case,The design take on more of a metaphor with it, from a design perspective it tells story, why even if she resemble the 14 year old Marie and the 38 year old Marie.
I think that they just decided to create a new origin story for Mary now that they are focusing on the plot line, soon they might update her deductions to match her actual backstory.
Thank you so much this helped me a lot, as there aren’t really any videos that dived deeper into Mary’s symbolism and backstory. I’ve also come up with a little theory that goes only if Alice happens to hallucinate Mary as Marie Antonia instead of Mary kreiburg, due to the heavy similarities that Marie and Mary’s backstories have, Mary kreiburg could’ve saw herself as Marie Antoinette at some point during her depression(in ashes of memory 1 it pictures Mary kreiburg staring into the mirror looking upset), which might’ve caused Alice to hallucinate Mary as the French queen. Or maybe Alice could’ve spotted the similarities between there stories and hallucinated Mary as Antoine herself.
You're welcome. Also, it could happen too because during breakfast, Orphy brought up the matter to everyone. Probably the safest way to say it was, that Mary's appearance was that of MA and de Capet. Some things that hold me from believing it was Marie Antoinette was her age, de Capet backstory, and BQ ONCE skin. I need to investigate more, really. Also ty for watching the video :)
Honestly from what i seen, Mary was supposed to be Marie Antoinette in the idv universe, but the dev eventually separated her to become her own character. Mary went from being Marie Antoinette into someone that mirror marie Antoinette life. Both women mirroring eachother very well, both Marie and Mary was someone that enjoyed music and dancing, Both women have rumours surrounding them, The gem in mary case mirror Marie Antoinette Diamond afair necklace.
Ikr. It's interesting as well as confusing, because there are many more questions derived from NE's decision to make her based on 2 different characters. Why Mary? Why should she be chosen to be based on 2 characters? What did her deduction quest imply, parallel to de Capet? We may know how Marie Antoinette led her life but how does it parallel to that of Mary de Capet? What was princess Lamballe, Count of Provence, and the french people parallel to Mary de Capet? Who was the rebel in Mary de Capet's life? And still many more. Damn NE I hate you :')
@@SilminaIDVMary de capet life pararrel Marie Antoinette life. With princess lamballe there was a lot of rumours surrounding her and Marie Antoinette To be lovers just like how there was rumours of Mary de capet was lovers with the jockey.
@@sanest-luchino-fanthat's exactly what I said in the video. Both characters are parallel to each other. I agree that MA was (baselessly) rumored to be the lover of Princess Lamballe (in short, I agree about the rumor part). Though, I am struggling to see who Princess Lamballe is in Mary de Capet's life. The jockey? Her servant in the 4th letter? Or even Frederick? So far, I don't see any resemblance to what Princess Lamballe is to MA, into what princess Lamballe is to de Capet
It could be that it's something like MA reincarnated into mary de capet (especially because of the similarities and the fact that de capet sounds like a word play on decapitated)
Fans believe so, but logically, it's a hard chance, given that Mary De Capet in reality is dead before the whole event of the manor. The only way he could appear as a survivor is if she, somehow, appears as an important character in the later installment of AoM, maybe like she's in Frederick's memory or else, since not all survivors are based on real life character (I'm talking about the little girl)
I believe so, as Ashes of Memory was the final game altogether. Besides, Behamfil was still alive at that point, meaning game 6 hasn't started yet (game 6 was held in 1899, and AoM setting was 1902). Here's the timeline if you need id5.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline
@@SilminaIDVwith the manor Game, considering how long it has been going. It made me think that there's probably another if not alot of manor game being held in different part of the world.
@@sanest-luchino-fannah, it won't be like that. In my understanding, there is only one at the oletus manor. I couldn't find any reason for any manor game similar to this one being held tbh. This manor game has it's own purpose : to create a perfect drug, and I doubt many people have the same cause to do this manor game
I know I’m extremely late but basically what I think is that the bloody queen is a hallucination that’s supposed to be a hallucination that represents(?) Mary kreiburg, and that she resides in Alice’s and potentially others minds. It’s likely that apart of Frederick’s and Orpheus’ deal was to excite the image of Mary in Alice’s mind(which is why they mostly talk about Mary throughout the duration of the racecourse game). The final touch of this deal was to stage the scene in which Frederick threatens Alice and Orpheus while also taking the blue hope gem with him.(Orpheus states that Frederick has calluses on his hands, when Frederick actually wears gloves, further proving my claim). Causing to hallucinate the bloody queen. This leads me to believe that when she saw the bloody queen, it was likely that she was actually hallucinating Mary kreiburg. However, alice imagined her as Marie Antoinette due to similarities and such, and due to how Mary kreiburg is related to frederick(who has white hair and wears red clothing) she imagined Marie Antoinette to have white hair and red clothing. *Note how Mary appears as a hunter to Alice, this is because of the fear she was experiencing as a result of the scene with Frederick, this could also explain why she appeared as Marie Antoinette, with alice’s panic making her hallucinate an image of Mary kreiburg as Marie Antoinette(who was perceived as a bad person by most in Europe at the time)* It’s also possible that Alice hallucinated Frederick as Mary, however, the scene in which made people believe this could be debunked. Plus Frederick and Mary aren’t listed as identity switches in the journal and under the relations web, further proving why this may not be the case. It could be possible that BQ will get an identity switch, but Alice would have to hallucinate her when not under a state of fear or shock. In (my) conclusion, the bloody queen is ultimately a hallcuiantion Of mary kreiburg which is caused by the drugs, but she appears as (maybe) Marie Antoinette due to how Alice imagines Mary to look.
About the ID switch, I sincerely hope so. I know many ppl will say otherwise because if Mary really get an id switch, the whole lore of IDV would be a total mess. But honestly, it's a total mess already, so even though Mary Kreiburg didn't participate in the game since she's already dead, maybe she'll have a survivor form as a hallucination? Just like the little girl.
@@SilminaIDV well from what I think it’s actually more possible than it seems in some cases, like you said, the little girls existence in the manor games contributes to this as she was considered as a “dead” survivor. Plus Mary is an extremely popular character, and knowing netass, they would probably make one for the purposes of making more money or gaining popularity. it’s not entirely impossible that Mary kreiburg was actually there, it’s just extremely unlikely, It’s also implied that Mary Kreiburg haunts the kreiburg racecourse by Orpheus in aom1(he states how after her death a dense feeling filled the air and the horses formed a stampede after) so maybe the feeling of Mary’s “presence” also contributed to the hallucination of the bloody queen? Another thing that I forgot to mention was that her mirror ability isn’t just based off Bloody Mary but it might also represent the parallel between Marie Antoinette and Mary kreiburg, symbolizing a “mirror” life to Marie Antoinette.
Thanks for making Identity V theories 🫂, the lore is very interesting and it saddens me that not many talk about it (Although I don't blame them because, to be honest, the story is poorly told or very mixed up).
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08:48 I'd like to give some more detail, as well as ask for details if you guys have any.
In this part, I mentioned that BQ's appearance resembles de Capet more than MA. Still, we could not forget how BQ's neck had a decapitated scar, similar to that of MA and not de Capet. Also, when BQ got stunned, her animation was holding her head so it wouldn't fall off. Considering this, BQ's appearance was that of MA.
But when we look deeper into BQ's biography, it is said that BQ has the appearance of a 14-year-old girl (Japanese reference book vol. 2). Yet she has white hair. MA's hair was blonde when she was 14 years old. Also, her skin "promised day" was heavily based on de Capet's wedding dress.
As for Alice, she could hallucinate both MA and de Capet, but given that both Orphy and Alice were talking about de Capet, maybe Alice was thinking of de Capet at that point?
It could also be concluded that Mary de Capet was seeing herself as Marie Antoinette, making her default appearance a metaphor for Marie Antoinette.
Honestly, I need some more insight into this. Do you think BQ's appearance resembles that of Marie Antoinette in Mary de Capet?
Now I get why her skill is Mirror, there are two mary's mirroring each other's life!
I couldn't believe I didn't understood the symbolism before!😂
Yeah well, we would not know until the ashes of memory was released lol
Oh yeah now it completely makes sense 😮 😄
It is important to note that Mary's head is separated from the rest of her body, as if she had been decapitated and not as if she had hung herself.
More than that, in her animation, after being stunned, she grabs her head so it doesn't fall off, since it is sewn to her neck with red thread.
Oh I was waiting for this one comment. Her design story mentions it, yep. The red dress is also caused by blood flowing from her decapitated head. Given only that, I would believe that BQ physical appearance would match that MA.
However, I began to wonder when I saw her once series skin, some other skins (last dance, for example), as well as Mary de Capet's lore.
Though in the end, I can't be 100% certain if Mary's physical appearance would match that of De Capet (except for her once skin). It just appeared to me that, connecting her physical appearance with the story, as well as her once skin, the BQ'S physical appearance would suit Mary de Capet's more rather than that of Marie Antoinette (including the fact that the BQ's appearance was of a 14 years old with white hair, while Marie Antoinette's hair at around that time is still blonde)
I want to hear more about this tbh, if anyone has any other opinion.
@@SilminaIDVi don't think BQ appearance was supposed to be the 14 year old Marie.
With her white hair it's a reference to Marie Antoinette own execution where People allegedly said Her Hair have turn white overnight.
(Search Marie Antoinette syndrome for more info if you want)
@@sanest-luchino-fanI already know of that syndrome. As to how Mary was 14 years old, you can check the IDV reference book vol. 2. It is clearly stated that Mary has the appearance of a 14 year old girl
@@SilminaIDVwell if that's the case,The design take on more of a metaphor with it, from a design perspective it tells story, why even if she resemble the 14 year old Marie and the 38 year old Marie.
I think that they just decided to create a new origin story for Mary now that they are focusing on the plot line, soon they might update her deductions to match her actual backstory.
Ah, yes. That would be likely. If that's the case, we'll be back into connecting things all over again :')
I think mary should get the flying buff😂😂😂
Hahaha XD
I totally agree as a mary main
Thank you so much this helped me a lot, as there aren’t really any videos that dived deeper into Mary’s symbolism and backstory. I’ve also come up with a little theory that goes only if Alice happens to hallucinate Mary as Marie Antonia instead of Mary kreiburg, due to the heavy similarities that Marie and Mary’s backstories have, Mary kreiburg could’ve saw herself as Marie Antoinette at some point during her depression(in ashes of memory 1 it pictures Mary kreiburg staring into the mirror looking upset), which might’ve caused Alice to hallucinate Mary as the French queen. Or maybe Alice could’ve spotted the similarities between there stories and hallucinated Mary as Antoine herself.
You're welcome. Also, it could happen too because during breakfast, Orphy brought up the matter to everyone.
Probably the safest way to say it was, that Mary's appearance was that of MA and de Capet. Some things that hold me from believing it was Marie Antoinette was her age, de Capet backstory, and BQ ONCE skin. I need to investigate more, really.
Also ty for watching the video :)
Honestly from what i seen, Mary was supposed to be Marie Antoinette in the idv universe, but the dev eventually separated her to become her own character.
Mary went from being Marie Antoinette into someone that mirror marie Antoinette life.
Both women mirroring eachother very well, both Marie and Mary was someone that enjoyed music and dancing, Both women have rumours surrounding them, The gem in mary case mirror Marie Antoinette Diamond afair necklace.
Ikr. It's interesting as well as confusing, because there are many more questions derived from NE's decision to make her based on 2 different characters.
Why Mary?
Why should she be chosen to be based on 2 characters?
What did her deduction quest imply, parallel to de Capet?
We may know how Marie Antoinette led her life but how does it parallel to that of Mary de Capet?
What was princess Lamballe, Count of Provence, and the french people parallel to Mary de Capet?
Who was the rebel in Mary de Capet's life? And still many more.
Damn NE I hate you :')
@@SilminaIDVMary de capet life pararrel Marie Antoinette life.
With princess lamballe there was a lot of rumours surrounding her and Marie Antoinette To be lovers just like how there was rumours of Mary de capet was lovers with the jockey.
@@sanest-luchino-fanthat's exactly what I said in the video. Both characters are parallel to each other.
I agree that MA was (baselessly) rumored to be the lover of Princess Lamballe (in short, I agree about the rumor part). Though, I am struggling to see who Princess Lamballe is in Mary de Capet's life. The jockey? Her servant in the 4th letter? Or even Frederick? So far, I don't see any resemblance to what Princess Lamballe is to MA, into what princess Lamballe is to de Capet
@@SilminaIDVits definitely the jockey.
@@sanest-luchino-fan interesting. Do you have any details of that theory?
First! And I like these videos you do! They give so much more to Mary’s lore!
Thank you. I'm not the best tool in the shed tbh, but this is as far as I go. Mary's lore is among the most confusing in IDV
It could be that it's something like MA reincarnated into mary de capet (especially because of the similarities and the fact that de capet sounds like a word play on decapitated)
De capet itself derives from the capetian family tree, which includes Louis XVI. So Mary de Capet is somehow referenced to Marie Antoinette
Well that just layers on more intrigue
I love your channel . Iam a fan . Thanks
Thanks! So nice of you ^^
She looked like a baddie at the animation😊
Do you think at some point we will get a Mary De Capet survivor? Like logically
Fans believe so, but logically, it's a hard chance, given that Mary De Capet in reality is dead before the whole event of the manor. The only way he could appear as a survivor is if she, somehow, appears as an important character in the later installment of AoM, maybe like she's in Frederick's memory or else, since not all survivors are based on real life character (I'm talking about the little girl)
@@SilminaIDV that makes sense actually heres to hoping for a mary de capet survivor
This is like very unrelated but, with michiko mask not being in the cabinet.
Does that mean the Ashes of memory taken place after Miles game?
I believe so, as Ashes of Memory was the final game altogether.
Besides, Behamfil was still alive at that point, meaning game 6 hasn't started yet (game 6 was held in 1899, and AoM setting was 1902).
Here's the timeline if you need
id5.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline
@@SilminaIDVstill can't believe they did my girl Martha dirty like that.
@@SilminaIDVwith the manor Game, considering how long it has been going.
It made me think that there's probably another if not alot of manor game being held in different part of the world.
@@sanest-luchino-fannah, it won't be like that. In my understanding, there is only one at the oletus manor.
I couldn't find any reason for any manor game similar to this one being held tbh. This manor game has it's own purpose : to create a perfect drug, and I doubt many people have the same cause to do this manor game
I know I’m extremely late but basically what I think is that the bloody queen is a hallucination that’s supposed to be a hallucination that represents(?) Mary kreiburg, and that she resides in Alice’s and potentially others minds.
It’s likely that apart of Frederick’s and Orpheus’ deal was to excite the image of Mary in Alice’s mind(which is why they mostly talk about Mary throughout the duration of the racecourse game). The final touch of this deal was to stage the scene in which Frederick threatens Alice and Orpheus while also taking the blue hope gem with him.(Orpheus states that Frederick has calluses on his hands, when Frederick actually wears gloves, further proving my claim). Causing to hallucinate the bloody queen.
This leads me to believe that when she saw the bloody queen, it was likely that she was actually hallucinating Mary kreiburg. However, alice imagined her as Marie Antoinette due to similarities and such, and due to how Mary kreiburg is related to frederick(who has white hair and wears red clothing) she imagined Marie Antoinette to have white hair and red clothing.
*Note how Mary appears as a hunter to Alice, this is because of the fear she was experiencing as a result of the scene with Frederick, this could also explain why she appeared as Marie Antoinette, with alice’s panic making her hallucinate an image of Mary kreiburg as Marie Antoinette(who was perceived as a bad person by most in Europe at the time)*
It’s also possible that Alice hallucinated Frederick as Mary, however, the scene in which made people believe this could be debunked. Plus Frederick and Mary aren’t listed as identity switches in the journal and under the relations web, further proving why this may not be the case.
It could be possible that BQ will get an identity switch, but Alice would have to hallucinate her when not under a state of fear or shock.
In (my) conclusion, the bloody queen is ultimately a hallcuiantion Of mary kreiburg which is caused by the drugs, but she appears as (maybe) Marie Antoinette due to how Alice imagines Mary to look.
About the ID switch, I sincerely hope so. I know many ppl will say otherwise because if Mary really get an id switch, the whole lore of IDV would be a total mess. But honestly, it's a total mess already, so even though Mary Kreiburg didn't participate in the game since she's already dead, maybe she'll have a survivor form as a hallucination? Just like the little girl.
@@SilminaIDV well from what I think it’s actually more possible than it seems in some cases, like you said, the little girls existence in the manor games contributes to this as she was considered as a “dead” survivor. Plus Mary is an extremely popular character, and knowing netass, they would probably make one for the purposes of making more money or gaining popularity. it’s not entirely impossible that Mary kreiburg was actually there, it’s just extremely unlikely, It’s also implied that Mary Kreiburg haunts the kreiburg racecourse by Orpheus in aom1(he states how after her death a dense feeling filled the air and the horses formed a stampede after) so maybe the feeling of Mary’s “presence” also contributed to the hallucination of the bloody queen?
Another thing that I forgot to mention was that her mirror ability isn’t just based off Bloody Mary but it might also represent the parallel between Marie Antoinette and Mary kreiburg, symbolizing a “mirror” life to Marie Antoinette.
I’m sorry but the gameplay playing behind ur theories is just so bad, I can’t focus 💀
Hey now let's be nice
Thanks for making Identity V theories 🫂, the lore is very interesting and it saddens me that not many talk about it (Although I don't blame them because, to be honest, the story is poorly told or very mixed up).
Well, it all makes sense until Mary Kreiburg appeared, so I just try to connect it as best as I can