Good job on this video. Did my first sim engine out about 6 weeks back before my first solo and as the man says: do not attempt the turn back at low altitude, your life could hang in the balance as a result. Excellent series. Love watching.
Nicely done Lewis. You can actually practice various scenarios at a much higher altitude. Just set a hard deck so to speak and see if you can make the turn to reverse course back to whatever you have arbitrarily set your runway heading to be. You can try it at various altitudes above that hard deck and see when you cannot seem to make it anymore. That way you are practicing at a safe altitude. And add the 3-5 seconds for the OMG moment that others have mentioned. Makes a huge difference. By the time you nose over to keep your speed at the proper glide speed you will be below your 1000 foot minimum possibly before you even start the turn.
Greg Ellis I think I'm gonna do another video seeing the difference between these attempts and with the reaction time of 3-5 seconds as you say.. Given the fact that on these attempts we were very comfortable and in both cases high, I doubt it's gonna make a difference to the outcome, however I'm very intrigued to see how the student pulls it off
Just be careful as you know that if the student is controlling the airplane keep a close watch on the airspeed especially if you are doing this manoeuvre (this spelling is for you!!) down low. Easy place for a stall, spin accident. Don't want that to happen because I like your videos. :)
Interesting video. My issue with the "impossible turn" and the conventional wisdom not to make the turn is that it more or less ignores all other factors when it's really just boils down to altitude vs distance as this video more or less shows. It's not always impossible but there are a number of other complexities that go into it such as the aircraft climb/descent performance, density altitude, airport elevation, local obstacles, runway length, Vx vs Vy vs enroute climb, airspeed, turn radius, stall speed, selected departure, etc all play a part so I assume that's one of the primary reason students are taught not to do it; I imagine a low time pilot would struggle managing all those variables plus flying the aircraft with sufficient accuracy, especially in the turn, to land safely. Additionally, both low and high time pilots have been lulled into the sense they can make it having that runway environment in sight and they have tried to extend their glide often with disastrous results. As others have said, if you let that airspeed decay even a tiny bit, especially while you are in a turn, you are quickly approaching a low altitude incipient spin that cant be recovered with enough altitude to avoid going splat on the ground... Only question in that scenario is whether its a big no survivor splat or a significant injuries/time in hospital splat. In that case, I assume the teaching is on the basis you are removing any decision to try to reach the field and committing to landing off-field and in so doing you are more likely to accept where the plane is going to land and not try to extend the glide. In your case, knowing you've made the turn before also introduces a bias that could turn deadly in an actual emergency. Like other's I'd be interested in seeing how a few seconds delay detecting and deciding how to respond to the incident makes a difference. I'd go further and say you should play with other portions as well. How does DenAlt affect your ability to perform this maneuver? How does the plane respond to a wingover or half lazy 8 which, while normally powered, is supposed to reverse course without altitude or speed loss? What about turning a cross wind at 700 AGL? How about extending the reaction time even beyond the 6 seconds to 12 or 15 as many fall prey to denial, indecision or wrong decisions such as trying to restart the engine? How about a Vx or Vy departure or something closer to a cruise/enroute climb speed?
Man, that was really good. Very educational for flight training to be posted. I enjoy that. Good learning tool. Question: Do all planes have a 1000 feet minimum for "Simulated engine failure" practice? or is only on training planes. I was also thinking. I would have to look in the aircraft manual for each different plane to find out. Again, thank LewDix. You are man!
Like your style. I would like to see you add an additional 2 or 3 seconds to your reaction time, following your engine failure at 1000 AGL, before you turn back. Reason, because when it really happens, it'll take that before someone actually initiates the turn versus your instant reaction and turn. You knew it was going to happen. Can you do that on another video? btw, love your work dude.
Thanks brother! Yea after i posted this video i had a lot of people talking about the 3 second reaction. I now make my students delay before reacting. Just shows how as a CFI I'm always learning as well! I will see if I can get back down to this same airport with a student and get it recorded. Glad you enjoyed the video man!
@@in2flying My instructor does this to me all the time at Teesside...usually around 300 feet - Fly (Vg) > Field (Select) > Flaps (as required and AHEAD)...no time for anything else really!
UPS1000 Well a windmilling prop produces more drag than a stationary prop of course, BUT the answer is no because the engine in this case is still providing power.. I think in a real world situation there would be more drag
Thanks for the info. Looking forward to more videos. BTW 2:41 minutes, your legs are tanned like a typical Englishman....I have the same thing, by mom was born in Leeds.
Wouldn't it be more realistic to follow a normal traffic pattern for this maneuver? Usually you would turn crosswind before 1,000 feet, so why not turn crosswind as normal until you cut power? I'd imagine if anything it would be easier to get back, because you would be closer to the runway and have less of a turn to make.
The point was not to show a normal pattern but to illustrate how difficult this turn can be. You’re not always going to be in a perfect position to get the plane back down. While your thought is correct in theory, that’s not the point of this exercise
I nailed this in simulator on my second try right after smashing into a mountain. It's possible but is it really worth it if you can land in a field in front of you? The Impossible Turn could kill you with just a few gusts of wind that kill your forward momentum
In a real world situation I would never attempt the 180 below 1,000 feet. The decision is all based on conditions on the day because as you say a gust of wind along with weight and density amongst other factors come into play. I will always pick a runway over a soft landing spot, as long as I can safely make it.
Why don’t people climb out at Vx every time? Doesn’t that give the best margin for turn back? I don’t understand why that’s not std op procedure. What am I missing?
It’s only really used for short field takeoffs or when you’re trying to clear obstacles on takeoff.. You get better performance from Vy which is why Vy is everyone’s go to speed.. Vx will climb you in the shortest distance which backs your theory that you will be closer to the runway in the event of an engine failure, but you get better performance climbing at Vy in the long run. The other thing is flying at vx puts you closer to a stall which a lot of people don’t like
in hot weather you will over heat the cylinders and do cause a real engine fail.. Vx climb only to avoid obstacles, then Vy speed to avoid cylinders failing. Practice this maneuver on simulator first. Coordinate with the tower or traffic well..
Howard Lau Definitely another good one.. I think that one would be easier though because you've already done half of the turn.. I've cut power on a student on crosswind before, but instead of turning back to the runway, I got him to land on the crossing runway.
"A little high.." that is a great problem to have! I have never tried this and now I really need too! Awesome exercise!
Good job on this video. Did my first sim engine out about 6 weeks back before my first solo and as the man says: do not attempt the turn back at low altitude, your life could hang in the balance as a result. Excellent series. Love watching.
Toffy B Absolutely right! Any lower than 1000 look off your nose in my opinion
Fun way to challenge your student while building his confidence! Cool demo!
I will have to plan a visit there to say hi soon. I made it down to Apopka a few months ago to visit a friend and check out his Lancair.
Nicely done Lewis. You can actually practice various scenarios at a much higher altitude. Just set a hard deck so to speak and see if you can make the turn to reverse course back to whatever you have arbitrarily set your runway heading to be. You can try it at various altitudes above that hard deck and see when you cannot seem to make it anymore. That way you are practicing at a safe altitude. And add the 3-5 seconds for the OMG moment that others have mentioned. Makes a huge difference. By the time you nose over to keep your speed at the proper glide speed you will be below your 1000 foot minimum possibly before you even start the turn.
Greg Ellis I think I'm gonna do another video seeing the difference between these attempts and with the reaction time of 3-5 seconds as you say.. Given the fact that on these attempts we were very comfortable and in both cases high, I doubt it's gonna make a difference to the outcome, however I'm very intrigued to see how the student pulls it off
Just be careful as you know that if the student is controlling the airplane keep a close watch on the airspeed especially if you are doing this manoeuvre (this spelling is for you!!) down low. Easy place for a stall, spin accident. Don't want that to happen because I like your videos. :)
Great video and definitely good to be familiar with.
Very nice video! - Well done Carlos!!
Nice video! Let me know when you are near Vero Beach so we can go out for a flight!
Alonso Rios definitely! Not been to Vero for a bit, I'll have to get down there soon
Interesting video. My issue with the "impossible turn" and the conventional wisdom not to make the turn is that it more or less ignores all other factors when it's really just boils down to altitude vs distance as this video more or less shows. It's not always impossible but there are a number of other complexities that go into it such as the aircraft climb/descent performance, density altitude, airport elevation, local obstacles, runway length, Vx vs Vy vs enroute climb, airspeed, turn radius, stall speed, selected departure, etc all play a part so I assume that's one of the primary reason students are taught not to do it; I imagine a low time pilot would struggle managing all those variables plus flying the aircraft with sufficient accuracy, especially in the turn, to land safely.
Additionally, both low and high time pilots have been lulled into the sense they can make it having that runway environment in sight and they have tried to extend their glide often with disastrous results. As others have said, if you let that airspeed decay even a tiny bit, especially while you are in a turn, you are quickly approaching a low altitude incipient spin that cant be recovered with enough altitude to avoid going splat on the ground... Only question in that scenario is whether its a big no survivor splat or a significant injuries/time in hospital splat. In that case, I assume the teaching is on the basis you are removing any decision to try to reach the field and committing to landing off-field and in so doing you are more likely to accept where the plane is going to land and not try to extend the glide.
In your case, knowing you've made the turn before also introduces a bias that could turn deadly in an actual emergency.
Like other's I'd be interested in seeing how a few seconds delay detecting and deciding how to respond to the incident makes a difference. I'd go further and say you should play with other portions as well. How does DenAlt affect your ability to perform this maneuver? How does the plane respond to a wingover or half lazy 8 which, while normally powered, is supposed to reverse course without altitude or speed loss? What about turning a cross wind at 700 AGL? How about extending the reaction time even beyond the 6 seconds to 12 or 15 as many fall prey to denial, indecision or wrong decisions such as trying to restart the engine? How about a Vx or Vy departure or something closer to a cruise/enroute climb speed?
Man, that was really good. Very educational for flight training to be posted. I enjoy that. Good learning tool. Question: Do all planes have a 1000 feet minimum for "Simulated engine failure" practice? or is only on training planes. I was also thinking. I would have to look in the aircraft manual for each different plane to find out. Again, thank LewDix. You are man!
This is a great airport to practice whatever u want I did my first solo back in 2013 in that airport... nice (Y)
Like your style. I would like to see you add an additional 2 or 3 seconds to your reaction time, following your engine failure at 1000 AGL, before you turn back. Reason, because when it really happens, it'll take that before someone actually initiates the turn versus your instant reaction and turn. You knew it was going to happen. Can you do that on another video? btw, love your work dude.
Thanks brother! Yea after i posted this video i had a lot of people talking about the 3 second reaction. I now make my students delay before reacting. Just shows how as a CFI I'm always learning as well! I will see if I can get back down to this same airport with a student and get it recorded. Glad you enjoyed the video man!
Another vote for the delayed reaction but good stuff as usual . Where do you find your music tracks ?
William The delay is a popular request.. Next time I'll do it.. I create most of the tracks, and some are from TH-cam library
LewDix Aviation Awesome - on long enough and quiet runways I've seen some cut the power at 200- 300 feet too .
William That's crazy!
@@in2flying My instructor does this to me all the time at Teesside...usually around 300 feet - Fly (Vg) > Field (Select) > Flaps (as required and AHEAD)...no time for anything else really!
I’m a student pilot. What do you do if you don’t have a 1000 ft agl to work with ? Divert to a field road etc ?
Dennis King below 1,000 I usually brief looking 30degrees left or right to find a place to land.
First thing. Put a clear blue line on Vglide Speed. That way is easier and safer. I use blue plastic tape. China markers not clear enough..
Does cutting the power properly simulate the drag of a dead engine? Prop spinning in wind or stuck in one position.
UPS1000 Well a windmilling prop produces more drag than a stationary prop of course, BUT the answer is no because the engine in this case is still providing power.. I think in a real world situation there would be more drag
Thanks for the info. Looking forward to more videos. BTW 2:41 minutes, your legs are tanned like a typical Englishman....I have the same thing, by mom was born in Leeds.
UPS1000 Haha I try and stay out of the sun as much as possible
Wouldn't it be more realistic to follow a normal traffic pattern for this maneuver? Usually you would turn crosswind before 1,000 feet, so why not turn crosswind as normal until you cut power? I'd imagine if anything it would be easier to get back, because you would be closer to the runway and have less of a turn to make.
The point was not to show a normal pattern but to illustrate how difficult this turn can be. You’re not always going to be in a perfect position to get the plane back down. While your thought is correct in theory, that’s not the point of this exercise
I nailed this in simulator on my second try right after smashing into a mountain. It's possible but is it really worth it if you can land in a field in front of you? The Impossible Turn could kill you with just a few gusts of wind that kill your forward momentum
In a real world situation I would never attempt the 180 below 1,000 feet. The decision is all based on conditions on the day because as you say a gust of wind along with weight and density amongst other factors come into play. I will always pick a runway over a soft landing spot, as long as I can safely make it.
How much do you charge?
Why don’t people climb out at Vx every time? Doesn’t that give the best margin for turn back? I don’t understand why that’s not std op procedure. What am I missing?
It’s only really used for short field takeoffs or when you’re trying to clear obstacles on takeoff.. You get better performance from Vy which is why Vy is everyone’s go to speed.. Vx will climb you in the shortest distance which backs your theory that you will be closer to the runway in the event of an engine failure, but you get better performance climbing at Vy in the long run. The other thing is flying at vx puts you closer to a stall which a lot of people don’t like
in hot weather you will over heat the cylinders and do cause a real engine fail.. Vx climb only to avoid obstacles, then Vy speed to avoid cylinders failing. Practice this maneuver on simulator first. Coordinate with the tower or traffic well..
Another one that is good to practice is an engine failure on crosswind above 700 feet, that one is more realistic
Howard Lau Definitely another good one.. I think that one would be easier though because you've already done half of the turn.. I've cut power on a student on crosswind before, but instead of turning back to the runway, I got him to land on the crossing runway.
I didn't know they'd discovered flight in Lancashire yet
Just to get over Pennines and throw stuff into Yorkshire
@@LewDixAviation Lancashire Air Force Hotpot Bomber Squadron
Upbeat music
Music distracting
jpalm32 What do you mean?
On top of your conversation!
jpalm32 oh ok.. It's just something I do in my videos at the beginning and the end.. Shame you don't like it
Hahahaha I love your videos man
Thanks!
The acting was Shit!!
laughed out loud on several occasions.
Thank you Sirs.!! (LOL)
First like!! :)
James Diossy Thanks brother!!
Yeah, I'm doing my PPL in London at the moment. In a warrior! loving it!
Do we really need to hear the awful music?
CHarveyFan1 absolutely
Student being smart a smart alec punsishment: cutting off engine
he was not...