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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- Repair of a Garmin GPS unit, with characteristic Dave screw-up and Murphy.
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not too difficult to kill a cheap USB cable with a short circuit on the power pins, heating up the connector to red hot ;-)
"not anything I did"
oh, really now LOL
@@deadgaming20 Let's short it out and blame the cable for being faulty, "Nothing I did", a short or two is nothing between tiny USB pins :D lol
That's your assumption (or if it was a humorous comment, excuse me). There is a thermal poly-fuse restricting the maximum current flow to the USB specs. USB 2.0 -> 500mA and USB 3.0 -> 900mA. For a typical AWG24 cross-section cable the maximum current at 30°C is 3.5A. The USB current will warm it comfortably up, but nothing else.
My assumption is mechanical stress. This sucker was just as worn out as the plug. For "red hot" it needs far more than the system is capable of providing.
@@dieSpinnt Dave connected it to a USB charger. These deliver nowadays at least 2.1 A into any load presented to them...
Also the wires in a cheap Chinese micro-USB cable are nowhere near AWG24...
@@uwezimmermann5427 Oh, i forgot we are talking about Dave. So no current limiting was in play at all, when testing a repair;)
... and i have no data about the cable used in the video.
Cut that cable in half before throwing it out!
Couldn't agree more. There is nothing worse than picking it up a second time and finding out it is faulty after another hour. My faulty cables get terminated by means of side cutters.
And toss the two halves into seperate bins. We never know with these repair enthusiasts.
@@Drottninggatan2017 This is why the right to repair bill should not pass.
Yeah, some crazy person might go dumpster diving and try to plug it into something.
The USB A side is still good. What a waste.
"That's not a proper amount of flux", Louis Rossman
Was really surprised about that too! How can you clean something without using flux?!?!
A little CA flux would certainly help... as well as some lacquer thinner on a Q-tip and a fume hood.
I admire his skills but. Louis voted for Trump.
Where’s Paul’s boardview software?
liquidsonly What does that have anything to do with anything? I’ve never liked Trump but given the choice between him and Clinton.. a lot of people chose him. I chose her based on her resume. Face it, 2016 was a year of poor choices.
I wonder sometimes if Dave realized how important showing his screwups is or how simple little repairs show learned technique on how to do certain things. I am constantly learning from watching these vid's still to this day.
Brian Streufert Exactly. His mistakes could have been edited out, but now we all learn from them.
100% agree!
I think it shows that mistakes happen and that they're normal and nothing to be ashamed for.
@@VintageProjectDE It also shows you how to avoid them and how to fix screwups.
The electrons won't fall out of that Mediatek chip. You're in Australia, so it's actually the right way up, duh.
Of course lol
No.. just because YOU believe in the "ball earth" conspiracy...
They still fall out!
JK...
@@ickebins6948 Australia doesn't exist! It's all a conspiracy, you know.
If you are into flat earth nothing runs out anywhere!
I cannot fall!!!
I can flow
I can recommed UV hardening glue for stress relief. This stuff really works!!!
Yup. Julian Ilett uses that stuff as conformal coating too. It looks quite strong.
Just make sure not to spill any on your laptop 😳
I recommend hot glue. Lol. it would be fine. May be a bit of a bodge but is strong enough when cold
Red SMT mounting adhesive is what I use. That stuff is VERY strong, but can easily be removed with hot air if needed.
@@09danstart - which makes Hot Melt the absolutely WORST thing to use in a GPS which is inside a car which can reach 60°C or more
That bad cable and it's high resistance probably saved the board when you shorted it with your mod wire ;).
Nice, but wrong train of thought. The shorted power pins result in a supply voltage of 0V to the consuming device.
The only thing that does its job here is the thermal poly-fuse on the side of the computer USB port.
@@dieSpinnt Huh? The short goes through the USB cable, so yes, it can act as a fuse or a limiting resistor.
@@misium U = R * I ... so short circuit means a small resistance (if we can agree on that), while I is limited by the supply, resulting in a Voltage(U) going towards zero.
Unless you are interested in warming your cold hands with the cable.
Which is (5 volts) (0.5 amps) (300 sec) 1 / (390 J/kg°C) (50g) ~= 38.5K for the copper alone and when 1kg mass of your cold hands are involved drops to a delta temperature of 1.92Kelvin which is almost not noticeable.
There are two wrong thoughts: There is already a fuse in series and so another hypothetical bad-cable-fuse(...very reliable, very hypothetical) is irrelevant. Second: What would happen to the device if there was something like infinite flow of current? The low resistance parts would melt away and in the worst case the full supply voltage appears at the DUDT(Device under Dave-Test).
THE FULL 5V! Oh, wait. Isn't the device specified for 5V?
Maybe we have some understanding problems and issues about setting priorities here? My concern in repairing things was always to show love to the DUDT, not to that lame cable:)
Love that you showed the screwup.. Nobody is perfect, and learning to troubleshoot is probably more than half the battle!!
Even simple little repairs like this make for good videos, especially for beginners.
The vias are a physical mount point for the connector.
My mentor instructed me in the way of "dry" soldering like Dave here. "Always use flux core solder" and you're good. (More recently I've been using Rossmann-style fluxing though)
Yeah i was screaming for flux but in reality you are right .... Good solder has lead, and tons of flux.
As long as your quick its fine.
I still would use some flux to do the whicking lol
I used to never consider extra flux until seeing Louis's vids. I too was "yelling" FLUX !
@@joshuanorris5860 For simple work like that flux-cored solder is fine. You really only want to reach for the flux if the surfaces are sketch (or you're trying to clean up existing solder that is still applied to the board). Louis does a lot of SMT and ball array repairs though which is where a decent amount of flux is a good idea. If he were soldering simple pins/bodge wires like that I'd think maybe he likes the smell too much....
Huh? My solder has flux as does the solder wick.
"The proper amount of flux"
You probably shorted the wires in the mini USB when you shorted it out with the jump wire, most likely melted the insulation as you did say it got hot.
I would definitely be adding some physical reinforcement to the connector, its weaker now than it was due to that pad being missing.
Good point. Some hot snot never hurt :)
@Joshua Norris some epoxy does not hurt either. I was screaming at the screen the whole video. i hope Dave does not torture us with his repair skills to soon again.
@@rarbiart well of course...
I liked the vid tho. I was screaming for flux on the first half but i got over it.
I like bite sized repair vids...
And the more he fucks up the better. Then we learn more. :P
@@rarbiart Also was going to say to blob it down with some 5min quick epoxy.
Yep big blob of hot snot!
Mistakes happen, I've done similar things over the years. Great video! I like the improved thumbnails.
You prolly dont care but if you guys are stoned like me atm you can watch pretty much all of the latest movies on InstaFlixxer. Been streaming with my brother recently =)
@Carmelo Mustafa Definitely, I have been using InstaFlixxer for months myself =)
Love it when people leave in and mess ups. I learn almost as much from that as basic tutorials
Nice repair video
Some notes, please disregard if you noted these in the video or already know this; The model has LMT so that is Life time Map and Traffic, updating is simple and the mapsets are poorly protected and can work with most of the earliest touch screen GPS units. you can (for this model) update free using the Garmin Express tool (boot screen depicts map from 2014.) The device uses a resistor inside the plug head to determine how much current to draw and weather or not it hooked to a pc (no resistor and it will only pull 500mah in computer mode) Google can fill in the remaining gaps in this info ;) (you do not need to register to get updates, just skip that screen or hit next with no info filled in.)
The cable you shorted was the one you said was crap. You killed!!
I like the screwup videos. Makes me feel normal. The number of times I've let the magic smoke out... doh!!!
I like them too. I hope Dave will make more of them :-P
quality content as usual Dave thanks!
The faulty cable, would that be the one you shorted out and It got very hot?
Lol
Don't blame the USB cable. It was probably damaged when you shorted power to ground.
This never gets old Dave, excellent video!
“Good enough for Australia!” Solders it wrong lmao
Skip to around 6:00 to avoid seeimg him poking that little poor USB connector like 2020 times while talking :-D
Vias can be used to add structural strength to pads to prevent them lifting. I have done that too in similar situations. Here is did not help enough though...
I also had loads of problems with crappy Mini-USB cables. In the end I bough a huge box with 1000 cables from Molex so that I would NEVER have to worry over that again.
That connector looks like a right angle panel adapted for vertical mounting!
A common problem. Your vertical one looks easy.... the horizontally mounted ones are a bit of a challenge at the pins are down inside the connector.
As for goof up like you had, welcome to my world. Happens frequently due to old schematics or doing just as you did.
very interesting video. I'm learning from your videos
dave, Dave, DAVE!!! If this is the worst mistake you'll make all year, You're a lucky man.
It's nice to see that experienced people also mess up sometimes, it makes me not to feel too bad when i screw up things
... Said the guy losing his eyesight. ;P
Welcome to the club though.. You're lucky - mine started going at ~40yo. :)
But no, I do agree on the using high-magnification reading glasses when doing any close work! Been doing that since about forever.
Disabled Vaper, I look at the TV and slide my glasses down, nope thats the readers, I look at a small part, slide my glasses down, nope thats not the readers, or I start driving and forget them altogether.
this happen to my garmin lmt hd, but i tried to do what Dave did in this video about 2 weeks ago and botched the usb port.
really wished i would of waited and ran across this video.
GREAT VIDEO!!!!
That solder joint has the fuzzies you'd expect with Tin Rot, so ROHS for the FAIL yet again (the older stuff was much more prone to this mechanical failure)
as much as I like keeping my nervous system unpoisoned ROHS PCBs really do seem to be terrible
I'd use some epoxy to augment the weak solder pads for an obvious physical issue.
He says he probably will do that at the end of the video. (I thought the same thing)
to true
I said that in the video.
Chop that cable in half immediately you condemn it, that way you do not accidentally use it again.
With the vias I use thin tinned copper strand through the 2 vias, then twist the other side to hold the socket mechanically. Drop of epoxy on the back will work well, just put a thin smear on the socket, wait for the rest to start to gel and place the blob on there, so the epoxy does not run down the socket and render it useless.
Brilliant
Me: screwed up a bit this week: Feels like shit: Looks on TH-cam: OK other people fuck up too.
Thanks Dave and the other people who fuck up, then are confident enough to post here so to inform people like me.Which makes me feel normal enough again to carry on. I'm in my 60's and I still fuck up things I'm supposed to be good at, and get paid for. The internet can be a great teacher, leveler if used wisely.
Thanks Dave
Thanks Dave, this is a public service video to all repairers. Always double check things that are easy to check, this type of thing has happened me before a mixture of self induced and bad luck, girrrrr and bah. Not as bad as being proud of the lovely soldier job you've done on a miltiwire connector then realise you haven't routed it through the hole in the case or chassis.
love these repair videos dave!.. We need more of them!
The lack of flux is uncomfortable.
Hahaha yeah. I was squirming for the first half of the video too :P
He starts using it part way... :P
Spare the flux, spoil the job. I reckon he's about 50cc short of Rossmann levels
@@danblankenship5744 You got that right - those cables have very thin wires and a short will surely damage them :-)
@@danblankenship5744 I've been soldering things together for over 35 yrs. Unless it involved Oxy Acetylene, there's never been a need for flux. It's only if you're using the new Pb free shit that you need to use flux.
@@Jimmeh_B your half right...
I’ll be darned! Had a friend ask about his old garmin not charging the other day. I wonder if this was his problem. Great video!
I always keep my tip clean!
I would hate working on that with the inductor in the way. Then again, I'm not super expiranced with SMD soldering.
it's like watching the repair shop aprentice. getting 2 new faults in while fixing one. working like this will cause quite a bounce rate.
Nice and easy fix. I had a similar unit from Garmin, something Nüvi with built-in simcard. It had both a USB-B and a docking connector for charging. Was very nice until the sim-card expired. Thanks for the video and humor. :) Greetings from Norway.
You caught your screw ups . Because any body can do them . It's the correct way to learn .
I have had my Garmin experiences. One that relates to this posting is that the unit did not work with any other USB cable than the one that came with the unit. No matter how all of my other cables were perfectly good otherwise. Garmin help informed me that their cable was special in the sense that it was part of the ANTENNA! Well, maybe. Or maybe all my other cables were just charging cables? But it did not matter to me when a few months later the unit totally died. No visible damage apparent anywhere when I opened it. Nor anything I could find with my scope and other meters. Cheaper to replace than try to repair. I still have the battery and the LCD panel waiting for some use in whatever future project.
Shoddy equipment errors are the worst. I once spent six hours debugging an MCP23017 (I2C GPIO expander). I couldn't figure out why half of my channels weren't working, even after probing them suggested everything was fine. I turned out that exactly half of the GPIO pins didn't make contact with the breadboard. Moved it to a different breadboard, and it worked fine.
11:50 Just use a short piece of resistor leg and SMD tweezers. Dont forget to epoxy around the socket.
I clicked and realized "Wait... this isn't Louis Rossmann..."
Not that I'm not fine with Dave.
Louis has been busily hearing about why he's *not* allowed to repair things like Garmin units... Didn't you watch the Maine right to repair hearing? Repairing a Garmin GPS unit is dangerous because it stops the dealership making loads of money, and could lead to tractors driving super fast down the road causing climate change.
Nowhere near enough flux for a rossmann video.
I'm fine with Dave tho
When I was taught to solder 60 years ago I was told to make a good mechanical joint first, then solder. In these days of surface mount that’s gone out the window 😢
That's funny; soldered copper pipes don't have a good mechanical joint first, but are extremely strong. It's the amount of bond that matters.
@@metallitech Do plumbers actually solder pipes end-to-end with no overlap and no fitting? I thought the pipes were fit together, not just ends touching.
@@Markus0021 I think he means they just slip on/off before solder is applied. Certainly no structural support before you solder.
@@NickHorvath OK, but that sounds similar to electrical soldering - by 'mechanical joint' they just mean hooking one wire on the other or twisting them together, rather than just touching the two together while soldering. But the connection types are so different it's really difficult to compare the two, I guess.
@@metallitech , well they sort of DO have a good mechanical joint. The pipes insert quite a ways into the fitting, there is a lot of surface area there in the overlap, and the tolerances are pretty close as well, The solder is not being stressed very much since the pipe-to-fitting junction is mechanically good.
Dang, I was feeling nostalgic about USB Mini-B yesterday after finding an oldish USB card reader equipped with a mini-B socket, these days it's usually the Micro-B plug that breaks first before the socket... :P
I believe that the unpopulated area is for marine applications. I used to sell Garmin at Boaters World, and, the marine model of the Nüvi had a little door and an SD card slot behind it for loading chart sets. They were right in that spot.
Been there, done that. SMD USB connectors are a very common failure mode for power packs and GPS units. Gone are the days of nice chassis mounted sockets bolted to a metal sheet :-(
I asked Dave in a live feed years ago "how's the eyesight".......different answer now! No worries, happens to us all sadly.
I've had similar resets with my first cell phone while I tried to use it after two months of non-use had dropped the battery-charge to
More repair videos please? I enjoy the soldering/repair vids. Thanks
1 rule of Electronics: Check the cables, before you do anything.
Might not be plugged in or the Cable faulty :)
Thanks for the video Dave. Maybe get one of those wonderful USB meters - Louis Rossmann uses them all the time with lots of success ;)
Dave, as a former computer center tech we learned early there's nothing harder to fix than something that's
not broke...
Exactly, he burned up the cable with his dead short. (blame others) Ron W4BIN
The vias probably add to mechanical rigidity. But the design of the socket and the plug is an early failure, with that leverage from the plug.
What about some hot snot for some added mechanical rigidity, Dave? Given that one ground pad is already missing.
A lot of Garmin USB ports come loose in the same way because the port has no mechanical attachment except for the soldered feet. Widely discussed on the net.
Garmins like a 17.3-17.4 kohm resistor across ground and the adjacent USB mini pin (pin 5 and 4 respectively). Or they'll be stuck in usb-drive connection to computer mode. Some units will take a 22kohm resistor, this will limit charge current to USB 1.1/2.0 spec (500mA).
I wonder if the via's were intended to be like rivets - giving more support to the USB for stress relief to pulling the pads ?
Thanks again
You ran out of flux or you are allergic to it? :P
Just giving you a hard time.. i would have used flux to whick that old solder :P
It should be obvious when he said "I don't know what these dendritey things are?" They're Tin Whiskers Dave, where have you been for the last 20 years? :D en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisker_%28metallurgy%29 Yeah, the joys of RoHS solder. I think Dave missed most of that. They DID have solid core solder in the old days that you had to paint flux on things to make work, usually more a point to point soldering thing like in industrial panel wiring, etc. No flux pens and needle bottles like kids today use. Just the sweet metallic flavor of lead solder, and the burned organic smell of rosin core flux. After enough years you don't need contrast agent for em to image your bones. :D
@@Psibr1 I know what tin whiskers are, I used to have a several hour presentation on it on the channel before I had to pull it from the channel. They don't look like traditional tin whiskers to me.
You mean with that solder wick that already contains rosin flux? :-P
@@EEVblog oh snap! Im sorry i doubted you even for a second haha
@@EEVblog yes. wick has never enough flux. it evaporates faster then you make your job. By adding good amount of gel flux you will decrease minimum operating temperature significantly, thus reduce the risk of damage, where it is really present..
dave, rule 1, check your voltage rails and follow it back
really would've went with some epoxy around the connector after resoldering/testing
This is a very good video . Thank you .
What a coincidence. My Garmin just suffered the same failure a week ago. Thanks Dave for showing what to do (and not to do). 😀
This connector is a common problem on Garmin devices. Had a control unit for a dog collar break just like this. When I got the replacement, I epoxied the shit out of the connector.
This kind of thin usb cables induced HOURS of error search on various projects. Examining my arduino code for errors, checked some usb-ttl adapters for failure until I suspected the usb cable but always the cable was the last what I checked. I should have learned now that if something acts weird over usb check cable FIRST and bury that cursed tiny usb cable very deep in my waste bin.
USB sockets, it’s amazing how many types there are, I change them every day of my life for customers and I’m still shocked at how many different styles exist.
Use the Garmin Factory cable which has a right angle Micro USB plug = less stress on the internal SMD micro USB Jack
My kingdom for some flux.
The miracle stuff! :)
Got a few in the garage. Any you find used may in fact contain bits of sand from war. Acquaintance worked at Garmin headquarters repairing them.
Those big fat shroud solder pads are just there to provide support for the plug, right? Like, you wouldn't actually rely on the shroud for ground because you wouldn't know if it's actually connected through the cable, as opposed to the USB ground wire, right? At least that's what I was taught.
62-36-2 Tin-Lead-silver solder has much better tensile strength which should make it a better choice for that type of connector, and it also has a low melting point so you can use hot air without melting the lead free solder on the board...
The faulty USB cable causing the GPS to not boot reminds me of something that used to happen back in the day quite often. Dead IDE data cables. They would cause the computer not to boot. I saw that all the time. The first time I came across that was a pain in the ass. lol So for trouble shooting I disconnected everything from the motherboard except for power and the computer booted. Hook up one thing at a time, etc. Anyways, replace the IDE cable for the CD-ROM and it worked like a charm.
Another thing I have seen once in a while is when the CMOS/BIOS battery voltage drops too low. It will cause the computer to do exactly what the GPS in this video was doing.
Would have been easier with the right amount of flux! You should ask to Louis Rossmann! ;)
If I had a doll hair for every time something like that happened to me I'd have a lot of doll hairs!
Thanks for letting us know you are human. A wise man once told me that to err is human, but if the eraser wears out before the ✏️ you should stop and have a think.
Dave you destroyed the pad! Pad-killer. :-)
Thumbs up for leaving the screw-up in so we all might learn from it. Goof job, Dave!
Hey David, Can you make a video on what you do when you're not making TH-cam videos?
I did stuff like that more times that willing to admit, but I learned something on the way (I would have saved the time if I listened to someone smarted) - repair one thing at a time. Unless these unconnected vias obviously lead to magic smoke, just for a test connect the device and check if it something changed after one fix. This way after few "improvements" in a row it doesn't lead to figuring out how many out of ten fixes broken something ;)
They probably used SAC solder for those pads, which is worse than something like SN100C (SnCuNiGe). Even then, some (through-hole) mechanical support should have been added to something like that which will see so much physical abuse. That one big pad got lifted clean off is a clear sign that the connector got a severe shock at some point.
But I guess it did outlive its warranty so it's all good :)
I spent two hours troubleshooting a project because of wires in a USB cable. I had red, black, blue and white. I got +5v on the red and black when I metered it, but it turned out I was metering data+ and V-. Turns out V+ was on the blue wire...
Sense Resistor
Some Garmins (like the 1490) need a sense resistor on the ID pin of the USB to detect a "proper" charging supply. Without the resistor the Garmin assumes a computer connection. The Internet Oracle knows the values.
Completely Irrelevant.... Dave simply fried the MiniUSB cable after he ran it into the dead short that he created on the PCB.
From EEVBlog to Paul Daniels/Louis Rossmann
Dave, how about a little bit of epoxy on each of the plastic sides for added strength.
I suspect you fried the cable when you had the short. The good news is that you didn't fry the Garmin.
With the short right at the Garmin's power connector, there is no reason for the short to do damage to anything inside except maybe the connector and the immediate foils and/or jumper. Any of that would be easily repairable.
Just a bit of hot-snot to provide some additional support that is easy to remove in the future if you needed to.
I wish my eyesight was as good as yours Dave. Turns out my gran was right I did go blind.
I am sure your V+ Shunt wire to ground mistake that heated that cable was probably why that cable no longer failed to operate the GPS after you removed the dead short wire >.>
I've had several problems related to low quality USB cables. Often they can't support any data rate or only low data rates. Seems like you can tell from the thickness of the cable.
Irrelevant to this video, since the cable worked perfectly until Dave short-circuited the PCB and then fed numerous Amps through the MiniUSB cable which melted it internally.
Why don't scrape these vias and then put a large solder blob on top of them and connector pin, joining them together? Should hold well.
I took out the 4 screws in the corners and I can't get the back of the case to pop off. I wish you had shown that step!
Wow, learnt so many things in one video. Thank god its a short of input power lines. What if the same mistake happened with the battery line. It's not safe unless the battery is almost out of charge.
Low /no charge on batteries often cause devices to restart repeatedly till enough current is available from internal battery to keep voltage in operating range. It can be weak contacts, damaged wires or just not enough current available to start the charging plus run the device because the power adapter is not quite up to original specs.
Louis will be having a moment looking at this.......lol
The date on the battery is 2015, not that old for a GPS navigator. You can still easily get maps even for an ancient 2008 TomToms.
BTW, fix your eevblog.tv link, HTTPS doesn't work for me, but HTTP does.