Customize Your MIDI Cables to Length
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Hey Folks! Today, the Rig Doctor is showing you how to solder MIDI cables to length! We’ll go over how to shorten pre-made cables, and how to build a cable from scratch! If you have any questions about this process, let us know in the comments! Please SUBSCRIBE here: / vertexeffectsinc
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CONTRIBUTORS:
Hunter Harrison - Mixing, Audio Editing
Mason Mejia - Co-Producing
Mason Marangella - Co-Producing
#DIYMIDICables #RigDoctor #Pedalboards
Today we're learning how to solder MIDI cables to length! We’ll go over how to shorten pre-made MIDI cables, and how to build a MIDI cable from scratch! Put your questions in the comments below and please lease SUBSCRIBE here: th-cam.com/users/vertexeffectsinc
MIDI Plugs (multi angle) - bit.ly/2oKHDFG
MIDI Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/32fNNLF
MIDI Cable (bulk) - bit.ly/3cfKM4U
MIDI Cable (pre-made R/A) - amzn.to/3hMgjMA
MIDI Cable (pre-made Straight) - amzn.to/2RU59eB
Multimeter - amzn.to/2YW9BdE
SO EXCITED FOR THIS🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Me too Tim! See ya at the premier soon!
Hey Mason, a big shoutout and an even bigger THANK YOU for you channel and sharing all your knowledge! I just finished my board build (a very extensive one....) and I could not have done it with your expertise. It was very tricky to find these Midi plugs here in Europe, but I finally found them and there were a pleasure to work with. your soldering instruction videos were very helpful indeed! (I soldered about 80 plugs in total....) Anyway thank you again! Sharing is caring! Keep it up!
Happy to help!
I'd love to see how you guys build a Cornish Cable! I've been really intrigued ever since the JM pedal board vids and your cable shootout recently
We'll have that one soon, already shot and ready to go. Very simple. Just float the shield on the amp side.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks, I think I'll give it a go at some point in the near future when i get some time. looking forward to the video!
@@duhj Sounds good!
Mason, I appreciate this. It saved me some grief! I wish I'd watched it sooner!
Been waiting a while for this one! Thanks! 😁
Enjoy! Good luck and check out the links for whatever you need!
You make it look so simple!
It is!
Thanks!! I help a lot! very good video! What is the name of the cable you used to make midi from scratch and could it be done with the XRL cable?
I use Twisted Pair Shielded Mogami 2552
Will you ever do a video on making diy XLR mic cables?? also any recommendations on a bulk XLR cable and in and out jacks to buy to start making your own? :000
Probably not, but there are tons of videos out there that show this already. I'm sure you can find one easily.
Damn Forsure appreciate the reply though thanks!! Have a good day my dude!!
@@danielcastaneda1547 Neutrik xlr and 1/4" jacks are really easy to work with so I'd recommend those. For the cable just make sure it's good quality and rubber insulated.
Wow I was literally looking into this yesterday haha
Perfect!!!
It would be cool to see a "Part 2," where you discuss 5 pin to 3.5 mm and bidirectional and split. Say from an RJM PBC 6 which only has an out to a Boss VE-500 which only has an in as well as another midi in. Then from a standard midi to something like the Wampler Terraform.
I think there are diagrams for that in the links, the one for the TRS would be the same as the 3.5 mm
@@VertexEffectsInc Mason, this raises the question of the Type A & Type B connections as I found was the case with a Kismet pedal, the kismet needing a "B" type (I believe)
@@geo5772 people are creating non-standard ways to use MIDI that aren't part of the standards. Originally there was no intent to have different types of MIDI categorizations.
Hey Mason, great vid! I'm curious how to make a 1/8inch mini TRS to MIDI cable. For example, from a Strymon to a Boss EQ-200. Also, are you aware of any right angle housings for the TRS tips?
Depends on the PIN out. They don't always match the same positions for manufacturer to manufacturer. You'll have to see if it tells in the manual which pin corresponds to the Tip and Rig. The Sleeve is typically always PIN #2 for MIDI, but I've seen no standard on which pins the T and R and conencted to.
www.neutrik.us/en-us/neutrik/products/plugs-jacks/plugs/3-5-mm-right-angle-stereo-plug is a common one I use a lot. Beware the small maximum cable diameter, however.
Super helpful, thank you! Would you ever use heat shrink for over the three terminals you soldered to?
So glad you dig it! you could, but not required.
Hey Mason, thanks for all your great videos, I think I've learned more from you than anyone else on TH-cam. I'm making a MIDI cable with W2948 with TRS ends. Is it better to pair up the conductors (ie. twist say the red and green together and the black and white) or to choose 2 of the conductors and clip the other 2 back flush to where the jacket is stripped?
Thank you, you just saved me some cash.
Excellent!
Thanks, brother! Just wanted a simple video and you’ve nailed it!
Just to clarify it, in reality we will be crossing the center outside wires with this technique, right? Since we repeat the same pattern on both ends, the outside wires ended up reversed, i mean.
I’ve bought the pre made MIDI cables with my board and was planning to cut them to length but couldn’t find real simple confirmation online.
Again and always, thank you for your kindness on sharing.
Edson Andrade The wires are not crossed, they are 1 to 1 they should match up exactly if the midi connector is facing you. In other words, the pin numbers don’t change from one side to the other pin one still goes to pin one, pin two still goes to pin two.
Hey man! Great video!! I’ve just missed the scenario where one of the pedals uses a TRS connector, such as the Strymon Dual Sunset. Any tips on that case?
You’ll need to check with Strymon about what the pin out corresponds to in terms of which pins connect to the tip ring in sleeve, there is an established standard that I notice all companies are adhering to, some more a little different, so just confirm with them.
Does Vertex make a 13 pin cable? The Roland ones are garbage and I would love to purchase a couple from you. Thank you for this video. You guys are the best!
13 pin? Nope.
@@VertexEffectsInc awe man. Thank you, for replying!
Great timing on this video since I'm currently mounting all my MIDI controllers on pedal boards from protection reasons! Just one question: How hot are you running your soldering iron for thin wires like these?
I’m glad! I run around 500 degrees F, use a fine tip.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you for that! I've been running around 800 degrees for soldering to pots, but that's too high for thin wires.
Harley Hexxe Sometimes you have to compensate and see where the sweet spot is depending on the thickness of the tip, they don’t generate as much heat so sometimes you have to add a little bit more than you think. It’s sort of a balancing act
@@VertexEffectsInc I use the pencil tips on my soldering station, it's similar to the one you have. When I need bigger tips I have a couple of guns I can use. I get the balancing act concept though. Start low, and if it's not enough, give it a little more and try again until it works.
I will be using the 5-pins though. My MIDI controllers do work on phantom power, and I'll need to get some 7-pin MIDI plugs together to finish up the ADA racks. I have 4 controllers for those.
Harley Hexxe Great, just follow what I did in make sure that it’s wired straight through 1 to 1 on each side
I should have known you already had a video for this. Awesome! Disregard the q's I sent you on your website. :)
Awesome, thank you!
Hi Mason
In your first example, there seem to be a risk for the shield (which doesnt have insulation) to touch the metal of the housing when closing it, would that be ok ??
Thank you :)
If the other two wires are insulated, no real risk, if you want to tin more of the braided shield you can do prevent movement, also you could throw some heat shrink on there if you're concerned, but again if the wires to the left and right are insulated, the only short could be to the lugs which isn't going to happen unless you break loose a lead, and the cable wont' work anyway at that point if it's one of the insulated leads anyway.
MVP Thanks for the class
Any time!
Is the straight hosa one you linked to have all 5 pins connected? I have a voodoo lab gcx and gcp coming and need to order a cable. Thanks.
Thank you, I needed this. Yes, I was one of those annoying guys that has been asking for this for a while. I could only find 3 meter cables and they are just to go from my switcher to my Eventide Timefactor, so the rest of the cable is rolled and zip tied together under the board.
Use the first example and cut it down!
I’ve always had an issue with the ground on MIDI cables. Can’t believe I never thought to do it this way!
Also, do you happen to know if the MIDI Solutions Quadra Thru needs all 5 pins to power up?
My recollection is that you need all five for the midi solutions splitters.
Vertex Effects Thanks!
🥰🥰🥰
Beware of conflicting pin numberings! I've run into MIDI connectors with exact opposite numbers on the connector. If you don't notice you can wire the cable up, check pin 1 to pin 1 (excluding use of a cable tester) and it will appear to be correct. Problem is pin 1 on the one side really goes to pin 3 on the other. Same with pins 4 and 5. The only one that seems to never move is pin 2.
Yeah, I did that....
Typically if you're using the same brand connectors - for us it Neutrik or Switchcraft, every pin is numbered, I don't think we've had a mis-wire in years.
10:47 I could be wrong; It's been a long time since I geeked out over MIDI, but if memory serves, there's no part of the MIDI spec that defines power delivery over pins 1 and 3. Those are designated for 'future use' or 'synchro use' (whatever that means, amirite). It's definitely not _phantom power,_ however, as that moniker is typically used to describe external power for condenser mics delivered over balanced cable in common mode. Otherwise fun vid!
1-3 are unassigned typically, but, on occasion, I've seen them assigned for power on a 5 pin DIN. Same with pins 6-7 on a 7 pin DIN protocol. The standards established in the 1980's haven't been well followed subsequently, so some of the norms are not always followed. Realistically, we could have done this video by connecting the shield only on PIN 2 at the source (like a MIDI programmable switcher) and then floated it on all the other MIDI inputs and thru's between the pedal devices (only using two wire leads and no shield).
@@VertexEffectsInc Yes, of course manufacturers are free to use spare pins as they see fit, and that's cool; I was simply pointing out that power across pins 1 and 3 is not part of the spec, and that 'phantom power' is a slight misnomer because 'phantom' implies that it is carried on the signal conductors and not on a separate pair. With regard to wiring, I terminate all the pins 99.9% of the time because a) I'm a pedantic, OCD basket case, b) I assume that all devices disconnect pin 2 on the input and c) I never know where a cable will end up once it leaves my bench. I've floated grounds on cables before but I always carefully label the ends in order to minimize the odds of confusion arising in unforeseen situations down the road. (see OCD, above).
Hey Mason, do you have a video on how to solder MIDI to TRS?
No, but we're making one.
@@VertexEffectsInc yes! Please do. Thank you!
HI ,GOOD mention 3 wire not 5 wires ,I watched lots videos ,but no body says comments 5 or 3 wires GOOD explanation 👍 .
Glad it helped
Hey man, could you tell me what model that Weller is or recommend a good iron and/or tips? I've got one but it's a little clunky looking compared to that and has a much fatter tip.
It's in the description
Thank ya, didn't see it on my first look.
@@TheAlpineProject all good!
Thanks for the video. As a workaround, would it work if the length was cut out and reconnected in the middle of the cable? As opposed to connecting a new plug end. I have a mini trs to 5 pin midi for a boss pedal and the connectors are both moulded with no screws.
You could do that "splice" technique but it isn't as reliable.
I need a plug like that only strain relief is a big priority. Seems imposible to find. I need it to make a cable from my pedal board to my amp 4 cable method with midi for switching amp channels and reverb. I am using a helix in combination with a mesa boogie tc-50. I am using individual cables now but I want to switch over to a mogami 2931 with
Neutrik NP2RX-B and some good midi connectors. To make a more custom fit.
You can build this up with heat-shrink to make sure it's stable. Typically the enemy here is lateral movement, not pulling.
@@VertexEffectsInc thank you for answering I really appreciate that a lot sir 🙏🏼🙏🏼🤗🤗
Can you show how to make a 5 pin midi to 1/4 inch midi?
We'll make a new video soon!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thank you!
What if you had more than one cable (2 or more) that goes into different MIDI pedals like the Strymon Trinity, or the Boss Trinity, or any combination of MIDI pedals?
Using the MIDI through's or using a MIDI Splitter box like those from MIDI Solutions is your best bet. Paralleling them isn't a cure all, and will workin some instances but not universally.
@@VertexEffectsInc Ok, because I've seen a few instances where you split from the output of the MIDI out on a switcher and going into those pedals (ie. Rhett Shull, Anthony Best, Daniel Jeong, to name a few). I'm postulating that the MIDI commands don't share the same signal path if you were using more than one pedal, due to each pedal having it's own MIDI channel and message commands that come with it.
You can do it, I just don’t recommend it as a cure-all, they are going to be circumstances where it will work and other circumstances where it won’t. This is why I’m not teaching that technique, because it’s too speculative.
I used the the outside pins on almost every build. Either 12vac to phantom power my voodoo lab ground controls or my modded behringer FCC1010 or to power the midi solution midi splitters which also get there power via the outside pin. But those use 3vdc it think.
If it’s using phantom you’ll need it as I said in the video. You’ll also need all 5 if you’re doing send and receive messages via MIDI.
@@VertexEffectsInc never heard of any device send and recieving midi data on a single 5 pin din cable.
Cade Bradburn I’m not saying on one cable, I’m saying if you’re going to use the MIDI in and out on your controller for example, you’ll want to use all pins.
@@VertexEffectsInc oh sorrybI'm not asking for advice. Just making a statement. My cables are made and tested. I'll post my latest board on that midi fb group you post to.
👍👍👍
Solid. This will save me.
Great news!
Why did not you use the "cable clamp tube" (made of copper alloy) which is included inside the connector?
Is there a practical way to retrofit a midi channel switch to a BE-OD deluxe and other pedals like it with two or more channels? I have a Boss MS-3 and would be curious to see if it's possible to control the channel switching via midi.
If it’s not already equipped with MIDI it can be difficult to include it, there are some ways to channel switch, but not to save presets unless it’s designed for that purpose. I saw that XTS had some prototype circuits that would allow you to change channels on certain relay switched multi channel distortion devices.
Curious. Since you only need three conductors for guitar in MIDI could you use bulk TRS or XLR cable or is there a difference in the actual bulk cabling of MIDI vs. the other (ex. XLR is audio, MIDI isn't)?
Typically twisted pair shielded wire is all you'll see in basic MIDI plus, however some of them have 4 conductors and a shield, others five conductors and no shield, depends on the brand and who's making it. Any twisted pair shielded will do. I use Mogami 2552 mostly.
Hi, what's the song in the intro (and outro)? I'm sure I already heard that but I can't put a name on it... it's driving me crazy haha
Dann Huff Giant era demo track
@@VertexEffectsInc That's it! From the Dann Huff Instructional video!
Great video. An improvement could be made with less camera movement and closer focus shots of the tiny bits of items being worked on.
Thanks for the feedback, you can check out the diagrams we provided if anything was unclear.
Is this the same technique with trs cables? So many pedals are starting to get rid of the 5 pin jacks.
Some companies don’t adhere to the standard for which pins correspond to the tip ring sleeve, so you should check with the manufacturer to confirm the pin out, but as long as you know what they go to the technique is basically the same.
What about buying a cable that's terminated at either end, but too long, then cutting to length and splicing in the center?
You could do that too.
Since Midi is a digital signal it has specific requirements that are more strict than analog signals.
The length of the cable should not be more than 15 meters and also needs a shielded twisted pair to carry the signal to pins 4 and 5 , ground goes to pin 2.
Not all shielded cables have twisted pairs, especially not all microphone or balanced cables.
There is the standard and then there is the implementation. In the retail space there is a lot of different implementations of this, often pedal companies aren't following the rules. The cable companies often won't have any shielded cables at all (most of the cheap MIDI Cable at GC are just three leads, no shield). The length will also be determined by the cable thickness/gauge but for pedalboard based stuff, 3ft. would be about normal, often less. Shielded mic cables like the Mogami 2552 like we recommend is fine for this application.
How would this process be different if at all if I need one end to be a 1/4 trs connector?
You'd connect the three pins to the Tip, Ring, Sleeve on the TRS. Middle pin is always Sleeve, the Tip and Ring can be variable depending on the brand you're working with.
@@VertexEffectsInc could you do a midi y cable where of the y ends goes to 5pin din and 1 goes to mini 1/8"?
Wouldnt it be slick if we could drive our guitar stuff from the midi phantom power?
They were guys in the 80s that were modding devices so that they could be used with DIN cables for audio and DC.
For a MIDI cable from scratch you've used just one of the conductor cables for the middle shield. You didn't use the shielding wire if I understood the video correctly. Doesn't the MIDI cable need the actual shielding on the cable?
Shield is recommended but not required for the middle pin, pin 2. A lot do the cheap midi cables at guitar center are just five conductors and nothing is shielded. For our applications on pedalboards there shouldn’t be any issue with interference since the lines are so short. This is why I showed it both ways with the shield in example one and without it in example two. Some folks with also float the shield on the the cables that aren’t connected directly to the midi send source (eg the midi controller that begins the chain of the midi cables).
Only the output of the midi transmitter is grounded , the input at the receiver is floating to avoid ground loops
Do you guys have any suggestions for companies that supply TRS midi?
Running an OD 200 and hope to control my patches but only allows 3.5mm TRS for midi. 3.5mm right angled > TRS 1/4" or 5 pin right angled.
We well them on www.therigdr.com if you don't see the sizes you want let us know we can make them custom.
The XLR cable is used to make midi? or some other specific? or is the XLR ok?
You can use a twisted pair shielded cable for XLR or MIDI.
So with 1 reel of microphone cable you can make any audio and midi cable correct?? Can someone answer this question for me please.
Sorry im not familiar with multimeters. What r u looking for when ur using it to tell u what pin is what
We have a multimeter linked in the description that's good. The pins are the connection points on the MIDI/DIN Plugs.
What if I want to make the other end a 1/4” for empress echo system type of pedal? Which do I need for trs cable.?
You need any 5 pin MIDI and a TRS 1/4" and a twisted pair shielded cable. Mogami 2552 is fine for this.
always build your own cables folks
If you can it’s well worth it
Do they sell panel mounted D series connectors for midi?
Yes, but sometimes you have to get the blank individual panel and rivet the MIDI to it.
Hello, can you show how to do a USB-MIDI 5 pin Cable?
That's a little tricker and will require some crimping tools to do properly. Easier just to buy what you need on this one.
I just bought a One Control Midi Hammer cable to make two midi to TRS cables. I noticed it has only two conductors, no shield. Any idea why?
Midi cables don't need the shield because the receiver is electrically isolated from the send. The shield should be grounded at the send port to be more robust against interference, so that specific cable is not in spec, but it will work just fine.
They probably did it to save money.
(this means that the way that is explained in this video is also not in spec, you do need to use the shield wire for the ground pin to have an in-spec MIDI cable)
Is there away to create a pedal that doesn’t have midi into a midi pedal
mengapa anda tidak zoom vidao saat penyolderan, saya masih belum paham
Soldering midi or 5 pin sockets its not an easy task believe me , also ''shield'' its not important so if its not necessary to solder, most important are the remain 2 wires label 4 and 5.
Ideally the shield should be on the output side, but not required on the input side. However, there are so many non-standard MIDI assignments in pedals now, I generally connect the shield on both ends and recommend people do the same.
If you're not using the shield wire for the ground connection, as you suggest people do in the video, you might as well not use the shield, because the shield actually shields the signal wires from EMI. This means that in 4-conductor cable, the conductors are all surrounded by the shield wire. When you're not using the designated shield wire, the conductor you use for ground isn't doing jack to shield the other two conductors.
Also, you definitely should add the shield to both pins of the cable. It is up to the device manufacturers to leave the shield of MIDI-in unconnected and to connect in out/thru. This is because MIDI cables are male/male, and if you would reverse a cable with the unconnected shield into the MIDI-out neither end has the shield grounded.
It's all explained really well in quite simple terms in the official MIDI specification
BTPA's prices are eye watering; right angle midi $5.85/ea up to 10pcs, $4+/ea up to 10pcs for their SPxxx and SPSx connectors, etc. That's $160 in only SPS's for 10 effects... $160... in connectors...
What should they be? It sounds pretty normal. Compare it to switchcraft or any quality equivalent it’s going to be about the same
You can try removing the boot from a straight 5 pin din for a lower profile. It won't look as neat as the right angles but straight neutrik din plugs are about a buckish. If you're ties it's not going to be moving around so having the boot on there isn't really needed. Plus the straight din plugs have a crimp strain relief like a 1/4" plug.
@@VertexEffectsInc You're right about the right angle midi, it's competitive. As far as the SP(S)x's, I'd say about a tree-fity ($3.50). In all seriousness, stateside they could be price more competitively. I feel for the blokes in the EU, I've seen prices near double for a single plug. That's one surefire way to price-out potential customers lol
GiveThemHorns Ironic, isn’t their headquarters in France
@@VertexEffectsInc it took a little searching, but I found KMMK. I thought BTPA made them or was sourcing them from China and selling them as a "branded/modeled" product; there's no mention of KMMK on BTPA's product pages. So yeah, prices stateside are better.
So... how about a tree-fity?