O.U.R. "GAMBLERZ VS JINJO" - 2012 R16 Korea Eliminations - Finals
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- This footage was shot by the Judges View.
R-16 Korea National Championships
Final Battle
Gamblerz Crew VS Jinjo Crew
Judges:
Foundation: Lil John
Originality: Free
Dynamics: Blue
Execution: Puzzles
Battle: Storm
For more information on the OUR System, go to www.ourbboys.com
www.r16korea.com
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When The End got a 2 for originality on his set.. that's when you know the judging is god awful
2:26 when Vero picked up the hat and put it on, it was over
lil john, again and again
IMO this is the best performance I've seen for Jinjo. Ironic cuz Wing isn't here. Hong10 definitely allowed Jinjo to pull off more stuff. That sidechair routine was sick...
ho9ly shit 8:25 is like one of the best routines ive seen. that timing man...
6:03
Bboy The End's set got 2 for ORIGINALITY!!!
R U KIDDING ME? Nobody in the whole phaqin world can repeat his sets! How the phaq he gets only 2 out of 5 when he does the powermoves which he invented and nobody can repeat it?
True, Nobody else can do his sets, but think about like this. how often do you see him do the same combos? example every time you see him jackhammer whats going to follow? either airflares of flares. Originality is about bringing something new and fresh to the table not just repeating the same moves you been doing for years...
The best bboy in korea : 2000 - 2005 Gambler Crew, 2006 - 2010 Rivers Crew, 2011 - Until now is Jinjo Crew .. :)
korean ninja is best
bboy vero
gamblerz
foundations 1 ?
which are the qualities ?
Wtf with foundation judge？
What you're saying is right, but he isn't wrong though. "Productive of new things or new ideas; inventive". I doubt that anyone can disagree with the fact that The End has produced new ideas, has been inventive for his entire life as a bboy. He has raised the bar countless times and what he does is ORIGINAL. What you're implying is that doing unordinary stuff will get you 5 for originality, but don't forget that these are BBOYS. Originality should be judged within the context of bboying.
But still, The End seems to score way too low in de Originality category for what he does.. in the battle against L41, he did his insane threading power combination and only scored 3.
With our system judge. Gamblerz still lose again.
i think he understand originality category as the "dancing because that is what its said for originality. your style your expression the way you dance.... but 2 for the end is just not right at least 3 for that set
why did bboy sick get scored so low....
i think this system only show us more clearly how do the judges work ^^. About Fair or Unfair ... i think at the moment there is no 100% Fair Judging system. I like the old system, which works base on the Judges's feeling. The bboys have to make the judges like them to win. cuz u know, Dancing is Art , and we can't give point to the Art ^^
jack hammers to airflare... TOO BEAST!
Hahaha I betcha Vero went up to Bruce Lee after the battle and apologized about the using his foot on the hat and offered to buy him a new one. Koreans are all about respecttt
a lot of these comments have circulated around lil jon's judging, and some of the questionable calls he made that night.
This is great. It proves the OUR system works, because it allows u to pick out one judge and see what he chose each round and allows us to examine whether his assessment was accurate. Regardless of whether lil jon made the right calls that night, the OUR system gives us the power to see who is capable of judging and who isnt.
OK....After seeing 05:35 to 06:05 and seeing the "system's" score being "2" for The End's originality, i now need NO more proof of how flawed the system is! number one, The End MADE the jackhammer to airflare transition, AMONG MANY other transitions that no one ever thought was possible. THATS originality. Seems to me bboy free (judge for originality in the event) has either lost his passion for bboying, or is the type of style-head that will never admit that POWER is just as important as STYLE.
Sorry for the sort of late reply, but dynamics doesn't equate to power, although power has many aspects that relate to dynamics (in the scope of this system). Most everybody has a good chance of scoring high with this system provided that they have a well developed style, which is why I believe that this system can work. It's still a hell lot more fair than "This side won just because I feel like it." The results are clear and any injustice can easily be pointed out.
Their judging system has nothing to do with how many aspects of bboying (toprock, footwork, etc) that a bboy touches. Having just read through how the scoring system works on the website, I think many of the comments here are left by people with misunderstandings about the system. For example, "Foundation" is not really about having a great 6 step, but showing confidence and dancing style. Straight from the website, "This is about the attitude, the music, and the way B-Boys dance to the beat."
I like the points. Because like, judges can't remember like a 10-20 minute battle and then decide who's the winner in like 5 seconds (unless like, there was a huge difference in skill between the crews). Like, I was in a battle once and like, we threw down entire battle.. The other crew crashed at least once every round, then like, in the last round they do like, a flip on beat and they win, and I'm just like, WTF. We got stolen. This system kinda stops this bullshit.
If Jinjjo gets 3s and 4s on every category then shouldn't the 5s from dynamics and execution help crews like Gamblers a lot. So everything is accounted for just my opinion though. But I do agree some of the judges were judging really high on some rounds and really low on other rounds shouldn't they lust judge on what they are asked to judge on not a particular style they favor they just need to judge the category they are asked to assess you can see which judges are close minded about the dance
if foundation is 50% real bboy swagger..then almost every single bboy in this battle should get at least a 3 (or worst case 2)..not one. Basically the system is trying to say that bboy The End has less "$wagger" than "__________" because he is a power head and didn't do the Brooklyn, bronx or latin approach!?! basically this competition has started promoting mediocrity and leaves no room for bboys that chose to "master" specific elements. flawed system.
So a power head is going to onl have good points in dynamics or execution... and the same is happenning to a guy that has incredible blowups and not god founfation, so you are saying that for example The end set is not an incredible set because it didn't have footworks.. We are going to finish doing exactly the same shit A lot of complet bboys that every of them is going to be equal...
you dont NEED to be a well rounded bboy to do well with the system, just need a well rounded crew. Where a power head may lack in foundation, a style head can do well with foundation and have a weak point in dynamics.
nothing wrong with the system, there are other competitions that judge a different way and nothing wrong with them either. Maybe it still needs more work on but i think it is fair enough.
What probably would be better is to set the maximum of points to 10. Reason for this is that for example many bboys can get an average/good score in dynamics (3/4) like Skim, however, The End gets a 5 with doing way more and higher level dynamics. The difference in points in only 1/2 while the difference in dynamics in their performance is greater. So in 10 points The End would have 10 points and the other 6 points, the difference of 4 points now seems more appropriate to the difference in skill
This scoring system is ridiculous! In order to win every player has to be well rounded and in this case Jinjo meets that standard. If this judging system continues it would be pointless to have powerheads because they decrease originality and foundation points. The future battles will have crews similat to Jinjo crew and powerheads will be whipped out of existence, please fix this OUR system.
Well when you think about it in another way, there's not really a way to call powermoves themselves original because most have to be done with specific techniques. When you look at two people do a flare side by side, they're doing it the same way and you'd really only see very small differences. I'm not saying he's not original. Combos The End pulled can be considered individual to him because he does them better than others. But at the same time, isn't that why he scored a 5 in Dynamics?
I like gamblerz in general but even without the system jinjo won props to them they held it down ... If gamblers would've had noodle they would win lol jk noodle is one of my favorite bboy ... Also imagine if wing was there to .... All I know both crews are sick and the system is good it makes sure that a bboy is well rounded and it goes by every round not by just one round cause by the end of the battle the judges are tired. And have seen many battles and also there is no tie
This system seems more towards footwork. I mean when the end went out he got 1 point on foundation, which I don't really agree. The systems seems to favor more foundation and footwork. It's like a powerhead like the end can't go out and win a round then and it defeats the purpose of having a crew on crew. My own opinion tho.
Weeeell. Dynamics does not just represent powermoves. The Dynamics category represents power, flexibility, speed, danger level, etc. So, being a stylehead doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get a one in dynamics. The same goes for powerheads. You can still have good foundation and do power. Good examples of this is like, Neguin, Niggaz(from pockemon) and Lil G.
I like the our system but someone please explain to me how the end got really low points for originality. You don't see many people doing what he does. And Ionno if top b boys are willing to give this a try I think we should give it more time. And c'mon jinjo was probably going to win this battle even without the our system because gamblerz crashed a lot sadly =(...
that's sad... This system remember me the letter system in a gymnastics competition...
Bboying is not about that.. You are trying to have an standard in aculture that precisely is wonderfull, because it is so varied... It seems for me that you are trying to rationalize something that is not possible to be able that rationalize..
this system is suck for me. There's no distance between the routine and the solo anymore. And there're no way back for powermover and some kinds of crew like Gamblerz because they're better at moves than toprocks and footworks. And from now, at R16 with this system, u don't need routine because it just can get the same max points like the solo can gets.
very very very true i understand that , but then your taking an aspect away from bboying. People who don't have power moves will score 1 in dynamics and people who mainly focus on powermoves will get 1 from foundation. In this system someone like Kid David could get 1's in dynamic
Doesn't matter if its fucking incomplete if they are already applying it to important fucking battles. In this system Jinjo could wipe the floor with pretty much any on going crew as of now. They are the masters of being well rounded.
Guy at 4:25 tries his hardest to hit the beats with his suicide and footwork get 1 musicality other guy from jinjo comes out and does his set on his HEAD and gets a 3? lol COME ON SON i can feel the bias.
No hate for whoever the judge was tho
Watch Pocket's first round in the Jinjo vs Morning of Owl battle. Is that a low score? I dont think so dude. If Pocket did his set a little more on beat and if he killed the beat a little more he would have got an even higher musicality score.
the judging for gamberlz seemed really unfair on some sets, like really... lil john kept giving ones where ones shouldnt have been given. jinjo did really good though on their musicality and original routines. this is a really good battle.
-.- Blue and Storm are the only ones which seem like they're actually judging it seriously. 2 for execution in Skim's first set, and 3 for Hong 10's first set... when they were supposed to be high fours or fives.
i think the old way of "3,2,1, point" would have sufficed, with big events like this, they get the best of the best to judge so that the audience and bboys watching the battle will know and trust the judges' decision.
You right man this system is judging individual performances not a battle as crew vs crew , that sucks :/ for me gamblerz took it ... And wtf the end srsly they need to fix this system !!
I agree that there's always gonna be subjectivity in all our human affairs but if we want to have a more fair way to judge battles, shouldn't we aim for the best system we can make? My concern is that the OUR System is just as flawed, if not more, than the traditional judging system. If anything, we should be improving on the OUR System, refining it constantly until we can make it the most fair judging system we possible can.
From what heard about OUR System, it seems like what Dizzy was aiming for was to reduce subjectivity in judging. However, it feels to me that even with OUR system, there is still too much subjectivity in how points are given. Just look at all these arguments in the comments, some do hold legitimate points. I respect Dizzy for the work he's done with this new judging system but it feels like OUR has really accomplished nothing in that the judging system is still too prone to bias and controversy.
i think your confusing it with dynamics and execution because dynamics is the difficulty of the move and execution is the cleanliness of it..he clearly got a 5 for dynamics and i believe he deserved at least a 4 for execution..but originality he got a 2 because he just did powermoves and sets that is mostly common and didnt add any variation to them such as a flare to cricket or airflare to munchmill because i see bboy chungabis or vicious victor do that all the time
I see a lot of power moves but no actual dancing or battling. Between the both of them jinjo did take it. But still. Lot of these eboys who like this style can't even define steez.
ANd I don't know, in every battle people is going to talk, is not going to agree with the decisio, I think that you are trying to justifie something that is relative sometimes.
no men,, once its an International/ BIG events with a great Prizes,, we need something that is can be accounted as the result so peoples can see about why side A wins or why side B lost the battle.. and guess what? all those points is based on judges feelings and or experiences and or way of judge etc,, means its more complete for this such big event..
Bruce Lee got 1 on foundation and Vero got 5? Best thing is just watching R16 without knowing about the OUR system and what the judges are scoring. Only pisses med off
But the thing is that, the points in itself are being called into question as judge's give some questionable scores. The whole idea was based on being able to be held "accountable"-the judges that is. But, how are they being held accountable, that's the question.
i really hate the scoring and when did they need that crap anyways? Its always been about another bboy showing whats up or coming back at them hard and just own.
You do realize this system is still incomplete? They are still working out all the kinks and bugs such that it may include any and all styles of the dance.
there are too many questions about this scoring system too.
This system can also have the beauty. but there are a number of difficulties for a bboy meet the requirements of this OUR system.
I just speak my thoughts I can not have anything else. PEACE
Sick does some foundation, advanced foundation with his own flava and steps, that´s de best foundation for me, its not just basic footworks, neither pure abstract moves, it his foundation, but you are right, this system is not very reliable I guess.
if you noticed the guy in the red converse (one who went last) flopped alot because of karma.. in the whole video he was mocking everyones moves. LOL
Has anyone noticed yet, Lil John gave Vero a 5 everytime LOL
Vero's real dope but why did Lil John give so many 1s to others who werent that bad at all?
I AGREE so much with that. I feel he should at least get a 2.. like only give them a one if they just do straight up power with no foot work right??
our system isnt turning out so well.. it was better off without it !! and after bringing this new judging system every one does have problem against it..
Jinjo deserve it! Gamblerz was awesome in dynamics but poor on every other criterias. Musicality was the worse point (only King So made a clean set with musicality and foundation).
Still Great Battle againt 2 well-known crews!
I feel the judges are biased giving so many 1's on foundation to Gamblerz and everything else they like to score them low on. I can predict a Jinjo set every single time but Gamblerz always mix their style and power up.
Lil John goes, "If there's one power move I put a 1"
But yea, I do understand what you are saying. There are still a few flaws with the system, but it's an improvement on the judging system earlier.
but yea he deserved like a 2 for that because he showed some of it...if he had applied all of the approaches and confidence he might as well gotten a 5 right?
a 1 is if he showed nothing at all
darkness hasnt been with gamblerz in years, he "left" and he start back up gambler (without Z) crew again but they dont really do anything
I kind of agree with you, but that also goes into the Battle category, theoretically.
Some people suggested a 1-10 scale to more accurately reflect it, but I think that's a bit too high.
디엔드가 오리지날리티를 2점받네ㅋㅋㅋㅋ 기술을 창조한사람이 2점받으면 3점 이상은 어떻게 받는데? 탑락풋워크 깔짝대는게 점수가 더 높네 파워무브를 할줄모르는 저지인가
yea i did think lil john was somewat flawed too kuz he gave bruce lee a 1 without considering that small musicality or beat kill that i noticed in his set a couple times
OUR system is really a big disadvantage for powermover crews like Gamblerz, Legiteam obstruct(forgot how to spell :P) and etc....
hong 10 style is soo unique and complex that its not even necessary for him to be clean in all his sets. nigga got sets for days!
The End Original just 2 why? he create the Power with the different it hard than create other style(Foudation footwork musical )
Ugh Bruce Lee 1 and Vero 5 for Foundation?
Vero hit that one beat and his footwork was that much better..
I don't think that big of a difference was called for.
Totally agree, thats what exactly i wonder what if someone come up with a better and harder round than a "5 points" round ?
Kid David COULD get 1's but if you've seen R-16 North America, he was getting 4's and 5's in every category, including dynamics.
Of course Blue did a great job. I just think that sometimes when someone maxes out a category or two, the judging system doesn't leave any room for the opposing crew to top it in the response. That could be changed if crews were given scores relative to each other. For instance, the Gamblerz routine at 6:50 earned a 5 in dynamics, but one could argue that Jinjo's response was even more dynamic. However, there is no way for the scoring system to reflect that. O.U.R. is still great. Keep it up!
Are all these judges briefed or told specifics about the judging, because I'd hate if it was just assumed that they automatically qualify as a judge.
Go find O.U.R System page, then go in the foundation category.
Try finding the word SWAG...this system is screwed :yaoming:
But in all i wish gamblerz won I have always liked that crew but to be fair and not biased you have to give it to jinjo ..
Points are given out by quality, not quantity. Yes a routine could attain high points, and the following solo can waste moves or do nothing to improve the score. Same can be said vice versa with a good solo can score high, and a following routine can actually bring it down
Jinjo never really respect other crews when they battle as much. Always throwing bite signs and stuff. I personally thought Gamblerz took this battle :)
i know eh
octopus should get fuckin 0 since he isnt even dancing
and does air chair every single time hahaha
Idk why Jinjo is throwing so much BITE signs, those are originally GAMBLERZ moves =\
Damn gamblerz got a lot of 1's in foundation.... The only one who did really good was king so on their team
whos that awesome guy from Gamblerz at 0:38 who did like a fucking clean shoulder spin for like 6 seconds?
I can't believe Vero's foundation was better than Bruce Lee's...dayum......a near perfect....seriously?
I don't know why gamblerz had a lot of 1's in foundation.power moves and musicality are foundation too.
Gamblers were getting a lot of 1's for foundation. That felt right seeing as Sick and The End weren't doing foundation. However that bugs me as I remembered how last year during the R16 solos BBoys like Taisuke did just as little foundation and was getting 3s.
I also have a question. Are the points given out on amount or quality? Strictly speaking a routine could attain high points and the solo following the routine would just waste moves and do nothing to little to improve the points.
A practitioner of this dance is called a b-boy, b-girl, or breaker. Although the term "breakdance" is frequently used to refer to the dance, "b-boying" and "breaking" are the original terms. These terms are preferred by the majority of the pioneers and most notable practitioners
octopus a 3 in foundation? I dont know if this system is that reliable.. for me bboying shouldnt be that strict
i don think gamblers goin 2 like da new judgin system most of dem lean more towards dynamics
maybe if u can speak and understand english, it would be alot easier for you to understand.
Man when let lil john judge don't let him do foundation or he'll keep giving everyone 1's!
great battle nonetheless!!!
The OUR system is so awkward :3. Its bound to have flaws but all sorts of judging does.
Born?? Really? I don't like his judgement in R16 Championships...
A lot of points seemed more biased. Execution 4 on Vero? Okay sure and King So got a 3?
I feel it was more of a 2 and Vero's was more of a 4 :|
But then again, that's just me.
fuck repeats. i could watch wing do his 2000 every battle and be just as amazed
r16 world championship semifinals > r16 korea > r16 world championship final