My BIGGEST Permaculture Orchard design SECRET IS ACTUALLY...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2024
- When I started the Permaculture Orchard I used a NAP system. Nitrogen fixing tree (N), Apple tree (A) and Pear or Plum tree (P). Combined they formed the NAP system of 3 trees. With time I've renamed it to be applicable to more climates and countries so renamed it TRIOS. Three trees, one of which is a nitrogen fixing tree (or shrub) and two of which are fruit or nut trees. Combined they form horizontal trios. On top of it (or below them) are the vertical trios, two other layers of plants (shrubs and perennials, herbs, perennial vegetables) complete the vertical trio. This diversity by design solves so many of the problems which arise with monoculture fruit trees as I once had in a 4,000 tree organic apple orchard. It all just makes good common sense.
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=== MUST WATCH VIDEOS ===
Origin story of MY Permaculture Orchard: • I HATED Tent Caterpill...
How to Plant YOUR Orchard (TRIOS): • TREE TRIOS THE KEY TO ...
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My BIGGEST Mistakes made in the Orchard (Playlist) THIS WILL SAVE YOU crazy TIME and MONEY!!!: • MISTAKES Series
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In Italy it was very common to let vines grow around a mulberry tree. It was called 'la vite maritata' wich means 'the married vine'
I recently found. small mulberry growing under (against) a black walnut tree and a wild grape vine is growing up the small mulberry. This was all planted by nature (squirrels & birds). Missouri, USA
My grandfather and then my father planted fruit trees in our garden and all of them slowly died, they told me not to plant fruit trees but I did anyway. I used this technique 3 and a half years ago, I planted a lot of shrubs and perennial plants and all my trees look great and healthy. Can't wait to design and plant my commercial food forest.
I wonder if its because you can easier judge a perennials health, because they're more sensitive. For instance yellowed leaves, make a nutrient correction, misshapen flowers and leaves, check for pests. Trees tend to be a plant and forget item.
@@robertcook9264 Trees are perennials, so - huh?
Brilliant!! Am doing the same in Northern Kenya semi arid, sub Sahara region. Its so gratifying!!!
Its all about the soil microbiology, each plant attracts specific bacteria and fungi which all help each other, research the soil food web by Dr Elaine Ingham and compost technology by Dr Johnson. It will rock your world and how you see plants.
Brilliant to describe the orchard as an edge ecology, not purely forest. We learn in Permaculture that the interacting edges of different ecologies are the most productive. Really adds to my understanding of what you're doing! Thank you!
Well said!
Just wanted to say thank you, you are such a blessing to myself and everyone who listens to you!
Thanks and all those who regularly watch our videos are such a blessing to us.
Your videos help us so much with our small orchards. Thank you!
Black locust has an edible flowers
Seen it for sale in posh stores and in cocktails
_beignets de fleurs d'acacia_
Bonus 2 cents: Look for opportunities to work nitrogen fixing or other support species into the vertical layers - Vines, shrubs, understory trees (although in an orchard setting, the understory IS your canopy), Herbaceous perennials and ground covers. Extra bonus: If you have your soil protected and have sufficient moisture, you can readily transform your protein producers into nitrogen by chopping and dropping them (all of the salix genus, poke, etc) This gives you some flexibility when forming your trios.
Have a whole collection of N perennials and shrubs yes even vines. We test for a while before using them throughout the orchard. See our N fixing plant playlist.
The density of trees and blossoms is impressive.
I always love your videos! Very informative, I love your patience, wisdom, and silliness!
Glad you like them!
Another great video. I am thinking about just planting some cowpeas near each of my grape and muscadine vines.(about 12) this year. Thanks for inspiration.
Very nice work. Congratulations!
As an ecovillager food tree planter in Bali since 1988 using Ancient Future Regenerative Gardens and Orchards, I deeply appreciate how you share your insights.
#asifLifeOnEarthMatters
What you said makes so much sense! Thank you for sharing your wisdom!
Glad it was helpful!
... and add in the odd lost tree tree being replaced with native evergreens, to bring the winter small bird life into the orchard rows over winter (especially).
Just love the overall space of your orchard, from aisle grasses and herb layer, even the seeding and layering over the plastic mulch and the more cardboard and wood chip mulch rows. But some day you should get a good crop of mushrooms. :))))))))
Haha waiting for our recent rains to cause our spring flush of morels. Shhhh don’t tell anyone Tim. Fall is bolete time, cart loads of them.
Amazing advice.
Your camera person is also super good.
I agree, our quality has taken a big jump.
He's got an amazing rewilding project on his own property! Stefan Ianiro is awesome!!❤ (Hopefully I spelled his surname correctly.😅)
Thank you Stéphane
You are so welcome!
Honey locust pods can be used for livestock feed.
Hey steff God bless you. Have you tried different spacing of trees in all your years seeing how they behave and seen what gives better yields and also want to ask, how does the ground cover affect them and if you have reference to how they yield with or without different species around them? Thanks!
this was great, thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Thanks Stefan, your the sheet!!!!
If I wanted to include peaches, how would you recommend the order? Would they be in place of the plums because they are closely related?
Grow what grows like a weed. Whatever fruit grows well, grow it.
Very good explanation! Thank you Stefan!
Glad you liked it!
Waiting for you to discover the stinging nettle. Oh, you'll be hooked...
It's very popular in Eastern Europe
Yeah, we've had a black locust on one end of a row and now a honey locust recently transplanted on the other end of that row. But the fruit trees in between are old, certainly there's something i can do to reinvigorate the oldies to produce like newbies with their good old varieties? We're also on the edge of an inland temporate rainforest, if only we could stop the clearcut logging, which is an assault on our continental fresh water reserves stored.
When you are essentially duplicating forest edge in the USA Southeast, won't you constantly have to maintain for poison ivy, Virginia creeper, kudzu, wild grape, privet hedge? I'm really curious how this works in areas where those are a challenge.
Just like any “weed”. Has to be maintained. But when the soil is healthy it’s much easier to pull them.
That's what planting under the trees is about. Fill in the space under the trees with other 'productive' plants so that there isn't a space for those unwelcome plants.
As Peter says plant with plants YOU want, so others don’t take that space.
how do the nitrogen fixing treees work? do they just improve the soil by growing there? or we need to cut and drop them on the ground????
Both ways, plus the leaf fall makes excellent mulch.
Hmm...this would be interesting applied to the native flora of this semi-arid, subtropical clime, growing myrtillo cactus (gets up to 7 feet tall,a little smaller than the Opuntia indicus(prickly pear)and maybe adding some pitaya(long, tall cacti, when it flowers, the fruit at the top is similar to the prickly pear's fruit but round and similar in taste to dragon fruit, which in spanish is pithaya, the difference in spelling is to differentiate easily between both fruits. Thanks for sharing your Permaculture Orchard design secret Stefan, 👍and greetings 👋from Querétaro.🤠
You’re welcome, you have many plants to try, including your hardy nitrogen fixing trees (mesquite,..) which often are the nursery trees for other plants to get started in their shade. Check out Geoff Lawton’s greening the desert site in Jordan videos.
Do I remember correctly that in the past you've also recommended fruit shrubs (eg currants, etc.) as part of the trios? How do those fit in?
Yes currants are part of the shrub layer.
Honey locust is edible, so technically you still produce with honey locust. Its green beans have the taste of green peas.
Wich are your favorite nitrogen fixers for small fruit trees or shrubs in your climate? I live in Germany, so we are somewhat similar at least with the light hours. We have horses around, so locust is not for us in that spot.
Thanks for your informative videos!
Try Seaberry (thornless ones) and Goumi. Both fruit and stay smaller than 3m-4m.
@@StefanSobkowiak thanks
Redbud grows all around here, but nobody seems to know if it's really a nitrogen fixer.
It's a legume, but I've been adamantly told that it does not fix nitrogen. Haven't seen any clear scientific evidence either way. But some people are very very sure it doesn't.
Deserves looking into for research.
I’ve added Goumi berries of different varieties with my fruit and nut trees. Maybe that’s an idea. I believe the Frankea bacteria fix nitrogen.
it's cool that the bacteria's and microorganisms have a symbiotic relationship with fungi and can network nutrients from one area to another area that needs it. nature is cool
Absolutely. So much happening we barely know about. Like why does every cell have 500 receptors on it?
Have you found a way to encorporate mushrooms into your orchard???
I have some question? Why shouldn’t I plant the same variety of plum or pear tree? If I use different varies does that strengthen their immunity and production?
Most fruit trees need another cultivar to pollinate. So if you have the same cultivar only it will reduce your fruit production. How much this impacts the harvest varies by species- some are pickier than others about this.
Also some varieties are more resistant to disease and pests so if one variety gets hit hard, it can't just spread like dominoes to the identical variety touching it.
What trees are the better nitrogen fixer?
The best ones are invasives. Acacias are the best, and worst. In this clima, and in a land with good soil, already cultivated trough decades, nitro fixer are a waste of time and work and space, and a unnecessary danger. A bag of 50 l of composted manure have more avaiable nitrogen then a nitrogen fixer can produce in its entire life. In fact, they compete more then help the other trees. Unless one is stating from scratch in a desert like enviorement ( very poor soil, very hot, very dry, no mulch.. ) nitrogen fixers are not needed.
@@srantoniomatos There's so much bad information in your post :(
It depends on many things. For starters, where are you located? Mimosa is a good nitrogen fixer, but can't handle cold temperatures at all. Black locust is good in temperate climates, also honey locust. Alder trees fix nitrogen. Something that grows where you are is better than something that doesn't. Antoniomatos statement that the best ones are invasive just isn't true. Again, how are you defining best? Many people might say that being invasive eliminates a candidate from a 'best' list. Fast growing trees like alder give you more potential to chop and drop for mulch than a slower tree, even if the slower tree fixes more nitrogen by some measure. You want something that grows well where you are, will stay healthy and produce significant growth and leaf drop to help with returning even more nitrogen to the soil. And you always want to have natural processes adding nitrogen to your soil, always. It's possible to have too much nitrogen - but you get there by using that 50 pound bag of composted manure, not by having too many nitrogen fixing plants.
@@peterellis4262 well, dont know where/wich clima he is in, but he asked for nitrogen fixation. Acacias do it, a lot. Still not as much as bags of manure...
Nitrogen fixers in orchards better use anuals and small bushes, they work faster and compete less.
This trees are not "support" trees, they are pioneer trees.
In a prodution orchard in a temperate clima they are contraproductive.
In a professional productive orchard the main deal breaker is time. Work time. A bag of 50 l of manure values about..half an hour of work? In a 20 year lifespan, lets say you spend about 20 hours working on one of this "support" trees (planting, prunning, etc). Thats equivalent to 2 cubic meters of compost/manure...in value (time x work x money).
What do you think does better to the soil, and the productive trees? An alder or 2 cubic meters of compost? I would say the apple tree is starting to decay before the alder start to compost... he could have one more productive tree there, instead of an unproductive one competing for light, water and nutrients...
We are talking about food prodution, a produtive orchard (in a temperate clima), and this is specially true for comercial prodution.
@@srantoniomatos i am in northwest of spain. Thx for your answers.
Absolutely brilliant. New subscriber and love what your doing. Hoping to copy this in Pennsylvania.
What part of PA, I grew up crntral PA... 10 mi SE of Lancaster, & 1 hr N of Harrisburg.
Welcome aboard! We always need examples in all areas. Lots to binge learn.
PA here too! South of Erie. I am starting this in my small orchard. I absolutely love this.
Do you have any recommendations on what to do with sloped land?
Sloped is better for fruit trees on average.
Ah, okay. That's good for me. How does doing a trio format on the contour of the land sound?
Also, it's a North facing slope. I've heard that's not ideal, but I have read that it can help with trees that blossom early like peach and plum.
@@shanemillard608this is what I have. Its so darn hot here in the summers that Im grateful for the little hill shading I do get. I have dug a couple of swales above berms to hold a lttle extra moisture from the winther rains. Not every row, but a couple after I had already planted. If I were starting over, I would dig a swale on contour, then a berm below it and plant on the berm. And repeat for each row.
Correct, even apricots. Contour works as long as not too dense to form near hedge as it will stop airflow and create frost pockets. Plant the trees with a bit more spacing.
Love your video, one thing that does not make sense (ecologically) is that plastic. Use a ground cover that lives. Like you say: that just make sense!! Blooming groundcover is a foodsource for so many animals, which diversifies yoir system. that just make sense...
Agreed. I recommend people who have less than 200 trees always use wood chip mulch. More than 200 try using organic mulch if possible. For our miles of tree row we can’t get enough mulch in our area.
@@StefanSobkowiak why mulch? why not perennials covering the soil?
@@jacobwenzler3615I think it’s all about time management. With just green growing ground cover plants you will always have the unwanted species invading which you will have to maintain. I have 160 trees and I will barely be able to keep up unless I hire a “weeding” crew. I’ve combined Stephan’s techniques along with the back to Eden approach and my results have been phenomenal. I do worry about how I’m going to be able to maintain it without help because if not maintained it will ultimately turn into a full forest that I won’t be able to even walk through and then old growth forest in my elder years.
You would have to put or seed enough perennials to crowd out the grasses. Then it could work.
Стефан, чи використовуете ви сонячну сушарку для фруктів? Якщо так, то як іі зробити. Дякую.
We tried one years ago but we have cool damp nights in harvest time so now use an electric one.
@@StefanSobkowiak thx, anderstand. Thx for Bible wisdom in video
Do you chop and drop everything or is it just fertilized from the plant exudates feedinb soil life?
Both
@StefanSobkowiak awesome. Do you put the branches adter pruning trees through chipper or just lay them on ground in tree Line to brake down?
Prune, down in the aisle and then flail mower chops them up. See my "Game changer" for branches video
@@StefanSobkowiak awesome will check that out
Is there a low growth nitrogen fixing tree or bush instead of something like pervasive Black locust?
What about Comfrey, is that helpful of more of a problem?
THX for all you do.
Alder maybe
Yes alder and Seaberry are lower. Comfrey can be used instead of some of the shrubs, since it can be large.
@@StefanSobkowiak Thanlk You,
Not sure if alder grows here in Northern PA. Unsure about seaberry.
@@GoneBattyBatsseaberry will love your area. I suggest getting some of the cultivars that have less or no thorns. Also don’t forget they need a male for pollination. Bonus they have a marketable berry crop of superfood!
Why not clover instead of comfry?
I watch you like a kid listening to a story. You could tell me about finding sand in the Sahara and I bet it would be fun. Btw what are those lines at the top of the trees visible in the drone footage? Tx
Hahaha, thanks. Overhead water lines for frost protection and whey sprays.
Sorry, I haven't been following you, you may have answered this already but what are nitrogen fixers? I know what you mean by fixing nitrogen, but examples of nitrogen fixers that you would plant would be what?
Honey locust, black locust, Seaberry, alder,…
Thanks for your video. I’m designing small orchard on sandy loam. Wanting to know your tree spacing since I already planted first row of all fruit trees 20 feet apart
Sounds great, but a lot depends on the rootstock. I have the trees too close together, which requires a bit more pruning.
The root stock is apparently good for no sprays. I didn’t plant nitrogen fixers. Should I put some in between my fruit trees that are 20 feet apart. I appreciate your advice
I’m on the south shore of Nova Scotia
I don’t think root stock is dwarfed
@@mikeross3418it sounds perfect for it! Many, if not all modern rootstocks are semidwarf. Meaning they wont grow to their full historic size of their fruit tree. And they can have smaller spacing. Mine are 15' apart, but there are gaps here and there with no planting, so Im incorperating a few fixers for shade and nitrogen.
“Look around you, what’s growing on the edge of a forest?”
Me in the Chihuahuan desert looking at a Shinnery Oak forest motte:
“So……sand…? Should I plant sand…?”
I kid of course. We grow grapes, apples, pears, persimmon, plum, and veggies
It could be cactus or shrubs….
@doinacampean1932. You can grow veggies, but trees survive extreme weather & floods better...which may happen this year, but maybe not in your area .
Just found out this last year that one of my favorite trees, the redbud, is a nitrogen fixer! 😅
Some people have mistaken it for a Nitrogen fixer, but it has been shown to not actually fix nitrogen
@@wesh388 Can you provide a link? It's definitely a legume and they are typically nitrogen fixers. Can you share your source for the evidence that it does not?
At some point it's really OK for us to go ahead and follow our intuition and see what the result is, rather than always relying on the research and word of others! Go for it! Redbud is amazingly beautiful, and has edible flowers too.
@@peterellis4262 from the USDA Forest Service, talking about the American Eastern Redbud: "Unlike most other members of the Fabaceae, eastern redbud does not form root nodules and does not appear to fix nitrogen [37]"
www.fs.usda.gov/database/feis/plants/tree/cercan/all.html#:~:text=Unlike%20most%20other%20members%20of,to%20fix%20nitrogen%20%5B37%5D.
@peterellis4262 the Forest Service has a database of Nitrogen fixing plants btw, there's a list of actual confirmed Nitrogen fixers on their website
Why would I use a nitrogen fixer TREE, when I can grow LOTS of annuals, doing the same, but also giving me an edible crop? (like peas, beans, etc.._
I thought the same thing the read somewhere that once annuals bloom their nitrogen fixing plummets and they use whatever they fixed so there is not really a net effect. The tree may give a longer lasting effect maybe?
Are you really going to go into the rows of trees every year to plant, care for and harvest LOTS of annuals? That probably won't do all that well in among the trees because they're mostly full sun crops? With the tree, you plant once, do minimal seasonal maintenance, and it produces nitrogen to share with the productive trees as long as it lives, which may be longer than the fruit trees, depending on varieties chosen.
The nitrogen fixation is just one of the uses. They are even more valuable as an insect barrier among fruit trees. We use them as posts, living posts, living trellis, a source of mulch, amazing nectar source after the fruit trees, the leaves are great forage for some of our fowl, and hopefully soon for a treetop trail.
👍
How do you deal with the birds and bats eating the fruit
Haha I wish we had bats. We just plant more plants than we need so they get a share.
Its all about the soil microbiology, each plant attracts specific bacteria and fungi which all help each other, (the soil food web by Dr Elaine Ingham and compost technology by Dr Johnson). For those that don't know look them up, it will rock your world and how you see plants.
Unfortunately, around here, there are so many invasives, that people need to be careful with the idea of looking to the edges of forests. I'm not saying it has to be just natives, but be sure it's not invasive, either. I know apples are not native, but I have quite a few; I also have American persimmon, blueberries and pawpaws which are native.
Honeysuckle runs rampant wherever it can get a toehold here, as do many other imported plants. Nurseries aren't much help either; many sell plants that are invasive. I bought a butterfly bush thinking it would be good for the pollinators. When I got home and read up on them, I learned of their invasive nature...grrr. God help you if there is a Norway maple anywhere around you. I spend countless hours pulling seedlings from every square inch of garden space I have. There are varieties of most plants that are safe, but just please look into it before planting. For example, goumi is safe, but Autumn Olive is not, even though they are very closely related. Sugar maple and red maple are great; just please don't plant Norway maples!
Norway maple should be sent back to Norway.
Not agreeing with you. Black locust trees produce AMAZING flowers. Yes, cooked in batter, but RAW! Again, amazing.
Try them raw. I’ve never tried them cooked.
I watched your video about too many zucchinis... There's no such thing. You cannot have TOO MANY of them...
I wish they produced longer and less frequent. Lol. I had an abundance last year. Had to give some away. But I don't mind that. I get my fix. Being on a keto diet it lets me enjoy spaghetti, Alfredo and other things that I can throw that in instead of carbs.
We did with 1200 row feet of zucchini.
@@StefanSobkowiakno, I just love zucchinis... Could eat them day in and day out.
I'm sorry but that plastic mulch is awful. What's wrong with just mowing and mulching with grass, leaves, and chip?
Nothing! It's superior.
We tried many techniques. This one is easiest to maintain for miles of row without chemicals.
I would love to know nitrogen fixing trees that arent invasive... im from Madeira Island and Mimosa and Eucalyptus trees are the worst... a true nightmare if you want to minimize fire risk and protect endemic species and Laurissilva forest (one of the last reserves in the world with milions of years).
Most invasive ones are invasive and aggressive until they have changed and prepared the soil for the trees best suited to the area. We mostly are not willing to wait until they have finished the work.
What kind of spacing do you use? Have you written a book?
Different spacings based on different rootstock. 2 books.