Like many of her characters, Alice Munro betrayed her own daughter
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- Andrea Robin Skinner, Alice Munro's youngest daughter, bravely revealed she'd been abused by her stepfather as a child and her late famous mother chose to forgive him. Michelle Dean, Michelle Cyca and Zoe Whittall join Elamin to talk about how Andrea's devastating story changes how they read the Nobel laureate's intimate stories about the inner lives of women and girls in rural Canada.
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I could never read anything by her now about young girls and women without thinking as I'm reading...knowing underneath it all, that she betrayed everyone, especially her daughter. It invalidates her writing in my opinion, as harsh as that is.
I’m with you. Her writing is now a travesty. I am appalled at the lack of awareness by any of the public - and various reporters I’ve heard - who have no understanding of this.
I agree.
Like many others, I am shocked and saddened by this story. Ultimately though, as a mother, I cannot understand how she could choose her husband over her child. May her daughter find peace.
And all the other victims of this pedophile. Allegedly only one in 50 victims speak up. Once Munro was aware, not only didn’t she support her daughter, but by remaining silent she put other children in danger of her husband’s abuse.
My mother knew my brother was abusing his own daughter since she was very little!!!! And didn't want to betray him!!!! So glad I didn't ever want to be a mother.
Devastating that so many people including her mother turned a blind eye to awful criminal acts. It's unfortunate that this isnt the first person who experienced abuse and has seen a failure to protect them / ignore it.
lots of award winning authors were creeps in their real lives throughout history
That is a crime! She is enabling the perpetrator on her own daughter! Shameless woman! May her daughter find peace and happiness
It would have been nice to have a psychologist or social advocate who deals with the trauma of abuse on your panel.
This is not an unusual story when it comes to child sexual abuse. This happened to me too. Both my parents knew and did nothing about the boys upstairs.
Oh my, I am so deeply sorry this betrayal and violation happened to you as a little innocent child. It’s just horrible.
This is personal for me.
I told my mother about the abuse I went through with my late father, and she said that she suspected things...but she said nothing.
I know that my mother and Munro were a part of that era called the Silent Generation, but this is no excuse for the pain her daughter went through.
And I am still considering her books...
Alice Munro has become a disgusting, dirty word. I am so saddened as well that when her 9 year old daughter disclosed to her step-mother that side of the family did not protect her.
IMO, when a narcissistic parent is confronted with an uncomfortable truth, they will _ALWAYS_ chose to save face! The narcissistic sees other people as supporting characters in a play/movie that’s all about them.
AM could not allow her daughters SA at the hands of her stepfather impact the image she had created as a cool, libertine mother. In reality, she could not defend the SA. Instead, she used her daughters story to her own benefit.
Well said.
Thank you so much for frank & thoughtful discourse from you & the three panelists. Life & the people in it are often very complicated & complex. Sadly, there are many more untold (secrets) like Andrea Skinners in the world. I applaud Andrea for continuing to tell her story as hard as it must be. It's an opportunity for reflection & deeper conversations like you have fostered.
How about some interviews educating the un-informed on the nature of pedophilia, those who enable it, and the life-long impact on victims. Kudos to Andrea for persevering in speaking up until she was acknowledged. How many victims could have been saved from victimization had Alice Munro supported her daughter rather than a pedophile.
I hope that society can use this to address a key component of csa that has been for too long long overlooked. An area that minimal attention or support is given yet is so prevalent in society. I honestly believe we can use this to be the generation of true change.
Read Vandals and see how she monetized her daughter's pain.
Art imitates life, life imitates art. AM used the pain of her child for her literary advantage. Her child who was failed by the adults in her life. There is plenty of blame for the cover up of SA to go around, money/fame seems as if that was far more important. I was never an AM fan! my hope moving forward is for all monies to her estate can be used to help heal people who have been abused and perhaps lessen just a little this stain/taint on AM's literary memory.
Maybe it explains why her work always touches the dark side
Simple way to talk about her - I'm just cancelling her. No tolerance. Bye bye. Not reading her again, not discussing any of her work.
Oh hey👋 came across this after hearing about it. Excellent podcast! ❤
Stop with the what about'isms. Watch all the Alice Munro apologists come out of the woodwork. You are ALL complicit.
Can we just clarify a couple of things? Alice Munro didn't enable or create the conditions for her daughter to be abused as far as we know? Her daughter didn't tell her of the abuse until she was 25 years old? If I understand correctly the issue is that Alice Munro stayed with her husband after learning of the abuses which had already stopped. That's not great. That's going to be difficult for a mother and daughter to reconcile. But Munro didn't allow the abuse. Her crime was staying with her husband after learning of the abuse years later.
Experts in the field say that it is very difficult for the mother not to notice, in many cases not wanting to notice, which is even worse. Even because the stepfather was always interested in girls, and did horrible things to Andrea when he was reported to the police, for threats or defamation. The investigator on the case commented that he was amazed at Munro's coldness. No, she has no defense.
@@Kaia942 You're going to tell me what experts think about this case? You are definitely speculating now.
@@seanwebb605 It's not speculation. All agencies that care for victims of sexual abuse, especially repeat cases in families, report this, it is common sense nowadays. Please go and find out more about the topic. And as for this lady, even when she found out, AM washed her hands and said what happened between her daughter and her husband did not concern her. Trying to minimize such a maternal attitude is shameful.
@@Kaia942 It's entirely speculation. You can't make vague references to what experts in the field have to say about the subject and apply it specifically to this case. You are speculating on whether or not Alice Munro knew of the abuse at the time it was taking place. If you have any reports or evidence to suggest that she did then bring it forward. Was she even investigated when her husband was charged? Is there a report suggesting that she was involved in any way?
You are speculating. It is the very definition of the word.
@@Kaia942 Why are the least informed any most stubborn so quickly to tell other people to get educated or better informed? This is speculation.
The Neil Gaiman allegations are one thing, but the Alice Munro revelations are another...and while AM didn't directly abuse her daughter, her total ignorance of it makes her writing now seem so false. There's no doubting her literary skills, but her morals as a human being were and are disgusting.
Believe all women, and even children, right? #MeToo, right?
All the fans, apologists, academics, and enablers of Alice Munro are complicit. That's why there was so much denial.
This isn't news. People just turned a blind eye to it. They didn't want to upset the fandom and status quo. Your hero was a villain. And you were all wrong and didn't get IT.
There hasn't been videos about this in social media. And commenting has been not allowed or censored. Double standards and hypocrisy has been historically rampant to the point of conspiracy. Pathetic.
The way people saw this plain housewife and tasteless person who could only wrote short stories as an almost goddess it's beyond me.
@@Kaia942 Then there are those who can't write at all.
Did you know? I didn't.
The publishers are responsible for when they knew.
Great author , terrible mother
Andrea’s words from
Toronto Star article describing how she felt the next morning after the first sexual assault: The next morning, I couldn’t get out of bed. I’d woken up with my first migraine, which developed over the years into a chronic, debilitating condition that continues to this day.
As Andrea’s describes , her debilitating condition continues to this day. Sexual assault , especially on children, has major negative lasting affects.
Thank you so much for this discussion. Where can I find the Paula Todd interview with Alice Munro in 2006?
Emotional reactions are not required. Criminal actions are. Full stop 🛑
The reasoning here is entirely flawed.
As readers we can only pass judgment on the writers work. That we have discovered socially unacceptable facts about the author has no bearing on the work. The work stands alone. I admit to having to hold my nose as I read, but the work is powerful and brilliant and we should not deny ourselves.
The work is written by a criminal. Child abuse is a crime. Writing talent doesn’t erase this absolutely unforgivable criminal abuse of a little girl.
these young women will change their minds when they mature...why were they not introduced properly? Why should I listen to them?
Heard this exchange ...and wondered ....
.
Monster
easy to say now
Defamation laws muddy our waters in many ways, we can't have our cake and eat it too.
I'm struck by how soft & considerate everyone's language is around this revelation.
When you consider the continued force of cancel culture and how CBC is such a huge player in liberal activism, the softness stands out even more.
If this was a male writer, especially one with her alleged status in Canadian culture, it would be wildly different. This would be a scandal worthy national news.
People would be demanding legal action against the editor, publisher, etc.
Sex crimes are treated very differently when it's a woman who perpetuates the abuse.
This interview was weird.😢
this is scandal-worthy national news, which is why it's being discussed on a national news show? and the difference is not that she is a woman but that she's dead, so there's a limit to the kinds of justice people can demand. what crime do you think her editor or publisher should be charged with?
One key difference here is that she has passed away. Her husband was actually criminally charged (albeit the sentence was soft in my opinion). I think it’s important here to no longer consider her as a feminist or a voice for the abused but actually as an enabler and perhaps a strong believer in silence.
Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Thank you for setting this out.
I wonder if she used her husbands abuse as fodder for her plot lines. If you look into it, it makes you wonder…
Let's look at the time: the abuse starts in 1976 when Andrea is nine and Alice is 45 and has just married Gerald Fremlin. Andrea is instructed NOT to tell her mother about it and her yearly visits to her mother and Gerald are continued to be allowed! Alice does .not even find out about it until 16 years later, after she has Bern married to the man for 16 years! Andrea tells her now 61 year old mother about the abuse. I really don't condone the abuse. I am a victim myself. But putting it all on Alice is warping picture. Why wasn't Alice told as soon as it was known? Why did her father continue to send her to her mother's each year? I don't think Alice would have stayed with the man if she had been told about it when Andrea is a nine year old child. I am sorry but this is cruel and twisted the way it is being presented.
Again, i repeat, Alice did not know about the abuse until 16 years later and through a letter from a now 25 year old Andrea!
dear friends,How do we really know what happened?? My daughter has be making false allegations to me for years due to her mean careless father. i left him but it is still my fault. So stand up now for yourself as the "family" will drag you down and try to degraded your name when you are dead. Prove you were innocent before it is too late How do you really know??
Not sure if you’re a troll or a bot, BUT had you taken the time to educate yourself on this situation specifically, you would have read that:
1. The stepfather who abused her inadvertently confessed by writing letters to MULTIPLE family members saying he SA’d the child, but it was the child’s fault because she “seduced” him
2. The daughter took the step father to court *AND HE WAS CONVICTED*
We KNOW because he confessed and was convicted...
This is disgusting! Munro was a criminal.