NATURAL vs. CONVENTIONAL WINES - Can a Master taste the difference?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2022
- Master Blind Tastes Natural vs. Conventional wines. Can he taste the difference?
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I have used this glass in this Video: RIEDEL Veritas Champagne.
I have tasted the following wine in this Video:
2020 Winzergemeinschaft Franken Gambacher Kalbenstein Silvaner Kabinett Trocken Franconia Germany - 9 US $
2020 Stefan Vetter Sylvaner GK Franconia Germany - 41 US $
2019 Albet i Noya 3 Macabeus Blanco Penedès Spain - 10 US $
2019 Partida Creus MC Penedès Spain - 28 US $
2019 Holger Koch Herrenstück Pinot Noir Baden Germany - 19 US $
2019 Holger Koch Pinot Noir „SF“ Baden Germany - 23 US $
2017 Leo Sommer Blaufränkisch Laithaberg Burgenland- 18 US $
2017 Lichtenberger Gonzales Laithaberg Rot Burgenland - 24 US $
The 100 Point Scoring System (from www.robertparker.com):
96-100: An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase and consume.
90 - 95: An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.
80 - 89: A barely above average to very good wine displaying various degrees of finesse and flavor as well as character with no noticeable flaws.
70 - 79: An average wine with little distinction except that it is a soundly made. In essence, a straightforward, innocuous wine.
60 - 69: A below average wine containing noticeable deficiencies, such as excessive acidity and/or tannin, an absence of flavor or possibly dirty aromas or flavors.
50 - 59: A wine deemed to be unacceptable.
Today we are answering one of the most debated questions in the wine world - what is better natural or conventional wine? I asked Leon to prepare pairs of similar wines for me that I will taste blind. The main difference between them is that one is made in a natural way with reduced levels of sulphur or no sulphur, and one is made in a more conventional way. Without knowing which wine is which, I will try to find out which is which. The first two wines are Sylvaner from the Gambacher Kalbenstein in Franconia. Sylvaner was most planted grape variety in Germany during early 20ths century. Today it’s only 5th most-popular grape variety, with 4.500 ha planted in Germany. Gambacher Kalbenstein is vineyard located in Franconia, a region known for high quality Sylvaner.
Wine style ranges from grassy and fresh - to full bodied and fruity wines.
Now lets taste them. I will do this tasting completely blind, as you can often tell by looking at the colour which wine is natural.
Interesting results, although next time I would like to see a video with natural and conventional wines from the same price range….
I tried my absolute best to find any comparable natural vs conventional bottles .. most difficult research ever, uni was nothing compared to that. Having the same prices was impossible (at least for bottles available in Germany)
@@schferleon Can you tell us where you usually get the wines from? I'm from Germany and honestly, as I'm not a connaisseur, I don't know where to get wines from smaller wineries 😅
@@TaBrrrate For the videos it really depends on the topic. Some of the wines are from well-known wineries. For the others, there's research needed. But you can look up the names of the wines that sounded interesting to you (names are in the descriptions) and they will lead you to some interesting online shops. I Hope, I've been able to help!
Recommendation if that comparison will happen again: Weinhof Arndorfer Riesling or Grüner Veltliner Strass im Strassertal (conventional entry level stuff) vs. Martin & Anna Arndorfer Riesling or Grüner Veltliner handcrafted (natural entrylevel stuff, some skin contact and less sulfur) grapes are sourced from the same vineyards, price difference is around 2-3 € between the bottles, same cellar, same winemaker. Closest you can get to comparing the 2 topics.
Agree with this point! Loved the concept and something that’s very interesting to compare, but would be really nice to see them side by side in terms of price point, but a great video still!
It's nice to see a master of wine making videos about the wilder side of wine there really isn't anyone else of your calibre doing these videos and i love to see a real opinion on the kind of wines i love to drink and that Partida cork pull was very satisfying mine usually crumble and the wax falls into the neck
I didn’t know I needed this channel in my life… top stuff 👌
Keep up the good work Konstantin!
Amazing video, I'm studying for Wset and your content has helped me a lot. I really wish to see you trying Brazilian wine. It'd be very fun to watch! :)
Wine making is an art-form! The reality is natural or conventional much like any type of art isn't a battle of what's "better" but what resonates with you more as an individual. Good wine making is good wine making! working in the industry and coming from a more "natural" background but selling both styles of wine professionally I was really surprised to learn in my early days of conventional wine makers sharing the same views with a more hands off approach and less/no chemicals/healthy vineyards whether that be certified organic/bio or not but still healthy and clean precise cellaring making incredible wines without harming the environment and trying to make a wine with tbh no life too it but just for the money and precision which the earth naturally docent agree with. We can all learn from the old world and the new world. Complex Terroir where everything lives harmoniously... High quality result without interference from man made intervention techniques... Its true to winemaking in its origins! Its all great!
That turntable rocks! Great video, Master!
Great video! :)
To make the blind test even more blind, you could change the white stickers on the bottom from rectangles to circles so you can't see the tilts in the angle.
Great video!
I usually prefer orange over white wines, and conventional wineries usually do not macerate with skins.
I've tasted some marvelous red naturals, but when I factor the cost, I generally lean towards conventional reds.
Omg yes im so hyped!
I think this is a very interesting question as I would say I prefer both - in different cases.
I’ve been on a 4-5 year long journey exploring a lot of natural wine - and there is so many great natural wines out there! During the past 2 years I have alos gone back to some of the appellations that first got me into wine 15 years ago - and by doing so revitalising my interest and made me crave classic from CdP, St. Emilion and bourgogne.
I think there’s a time and place for every wine - and, me personally, I don’t want to be without a nice, crispy cold orange wine on a hot summer day nor do I want to be without a robust Bordeaux to my steak frites when the fall comes.
All and all I’m happy for the ”natural” wine wave that, if anything, have enriched the world of wine with new (and old) expressions.
Thanks again for awesome content - keep up the good work!
natural wine is the same old wine as usual they are just hyping it now thats the only difference, its hipster marketing.
@@pilsplease7561 One could say that natural wine is in many ways closer to how wine used to be - pre chemical fertilizer and pesticides.
But it has also sparked a movement where "natural" wine producers tend to be much more eager to break the status quo and try new stuff outside the rules and "truths" from their region and appellations. It is a bit of an avant garde movement in an otherwise pretty conservative world. This means that we are seeing new kind of wine expressions that you wouldn't necessarily associate with the region where the wine is produced.
This is at least my experience of what has been happening here in the south of France.
@@hhallengren The reason you have rules and truths is because its already all been tried and proven to be good or bad and the rules are in place to keep people from making bad wines which natural wines are often flawed garbage that uses the natural label to hide bad winemaking practices and sell shit that nobody wants to drink.
@@pilsplease7561 I do agree with you to some point - low intervention wine tend to be flawed more often than traditional wines; naturally so. And they tend to be more pricy; which is natural as there is often more manual labour involved.
But I do think that your reasoning have one major flaws; climate change.
Speak to anyone within agriculture and they will tell you that the playing field is changing due to climate change - hence giving us new challenges and opportunities; so solely looking to what have been will not solve it all. And as the appellations are most often based on how it used to be back in ”the good ol’ days” there might very well be new paths to explore that will lead to something great.
The beautiful thing with a market economy is that stuff that people don’t want will disappear naturally. And since you seem to be a bloke that like your traditional wine this wave of natural wine should come as a blessing for you as all the hipsters throws their money on natural wine - hence keeping down prices on the traditional stuff.
@@hhallengren If anything, I think climate change is overblown, and I do not think its happening as they say and I have 10 years of recent weather data to backup the fact that its been colder than ever the last few years with less warm days especially in my vineyard, 2021 was a terrible vintage with late fruit cause we got no warm weather and a cold summer and poor fruit ripening. Brix was way down and this is in California.
Regarding the Holger Koch example, i would assume that the result depends a lot on the time when the test is done. A wine without sulfites will reach maturity faster due to increased oxidation. IF you would store both bottles for 3-5 years, it might be that the non-sulfite one is dead, and the one with sulfites would be better than the one without sulfites is now.
Great, loved it
Great video, would you ever do one on Barbera D'Alba vs Barbera D'Asti or just on the Barbera grape?
Hi Konstatin! Very happy to have found your channel. I am an enthusiastic amateur with 35 years of experience collecting and drinking wine often paired with food. I have found that over the years, I have a mild allergic reaction to some wines e.g. Some European Rieslings, some French Vouvrays and some NZ Gewurztraminers. My allergies relate to some seafood and have always thought that perhaps fish scales were used in the fining process of some wine producers. Can you confirm whether my hypothesis is correct or not? Cheers!
Fining agents made from shellfish are used in winemaking.
I've had "natural/organic" Zinfandel from Cotturi Vineyards; quite a bit of bottle variation, the bad ones having too much brettanomyces. The best bottles were very interesting.
I'm amazed that you say the natural wines are more complex. I've had at least 50 different ones, and the over-riding characteristic of them is they are not complex at all. They are dull, one-note wines that suit the processed-food and juice box palates of Millennials, who are the biggest audience for them. Natural wine zealotry is ruining one restaurant after another in New York City (Brooklyn especially) as they force natural wines on you without any options. Natty fans also attempt to make a feature out of flaws: things like "funky" (meaning unpleasant to human palates) and "drinkable" (meaning simple, like grape juice mixed with alcohol).
The comment on price was interesting too. At least in America, if you see a restaurant by-the-glass list which ranges from, say, $14 to $28, the $14 glass is usually the natural wine. It tends to be very cheap. Anyway, I stand by my statement that "low intervention wine making" simply means "not doing your job."
I agree completely! You made several excellent points. This is also true in Southern California where the hipsters who are guzzling White Claws by day have to drink natural wine with dinner. Their wine palate is nonexistent.
Fantastic video. Would love to see a blind tasting of natural wine to determine grape and region! I would imagine it's nearly impossible.
It's absolutely possible we do that all the time, don't know if Konstantin could handle that tho ..
Are you saying it's nearly impossible to make a wine that has evidence of terroir without things like chemical additives, added sugar, acid, etc?
Seems a little ironic.
@@brettware2955 That's my curiosity, natural wine by definition is dry farmed, low/no interventaion, would a Trebbiano from two vintages (biodynamic and conventional) showcase that grape and would someone be able to suss it out... super curious, will search, can be any grape. Cheers!
@@gpeng I'd argue that the only way to really understand a vintage, to understand terroir, etc. is to taste wines that haven't had stuff added to them, or have been manipulated by RO or spinning cones or things like that.
What does it matter knowing a vintage was very cool if you add tartaric acid to your wine?
That being said, there are a lot of very precise natural wines being made, not using sulfur or other chemicals doesn't make your wine automatically flawed.
I prefer good tasty well made wine. Doesn't matter if it is the trendy Natural or not. What bothers me a lot though, is that "Natural" became an excuse to sell a lot of faulty shitty wine.
Could not agree more. Every time someone tries to convice me a faulty natural wine isn't faulty but instead is "rustic" or has "personality" I want to scream.
Agreed! Much of it is shite!
Great job on the comparisons!!
Natural wines definitely have an acquired taste sort of thing- You appreciate it more the more you drink it ;) Though, conventional is my go to.
That's right ... Thanks!
Sticker is in a different position on each glass👻
Hi Konstantin
Great video. Thank you very much!
I really like the glasses you are using. Could you share the brand?
p.s.
did you you have a movie about PET/NAT yet?
It's always in the description of the video
Hi Constantin very interesting and well made comparison.... natural wines often give more (not easy to exploit what more means...😊) and price is not always so hi
In my experience, for a given grape variety, "naturalness (or naturality? :-D)" spreads considerably, while "convential" wines are more similar to each other. So really the answer to your question depends on which end of the spectrum you look at.
That said, while I return to naturals now and then, I find to enjoy them only when not too funky. Every now and then there's a prudently made natural that I really like. (This is true for whites; I drink less red in general, and an even lesser percentage of natural reds.) Generally I'm more on the conventional side it appears, though organic if it so happens.
On a side note, I find myself becoming more and more sensible to and turned off by sulfur notes. I wonder if that's due to increased contact with natural wines, or maybe a general shift even in conventional winemaking? After all, cellar technique and hygiene have improved by leaps, so less "conservation helpers" are needed nowadays.
Would have been much better to have 2 wines at the same price point
Well here in the UK we're a bit price driven in many cases.. I for one find the natural wines rather expensive, but I can well see the appeal of letting the grapes and fermentation process speak unhindered by additives.. A fascinating comparison, well done for the 4/4! Top marks. 🌟🌟🌟🌟👍
It's a ridiculous argument. Do you cook your food? That's "intervention." Do you put salt on it? Ooops, that's intervention and additives, not natural! If we know something makes a better wine (such as using a specific yeast strain rather than just whatever happens to be floating in the room), then it's stupid not to use it. A lot of "unnatural" wine making is using natural products in an intelligent way. Natural wine making is deliberately choosing ignorance based on zealotry.
@@pme1691 "Wild ferment with indigenous yeasts" ie "we didn't innoculate but the conventional saccharomyces strains that were ambient in the winery took over eventually and we have no way knowing what actually fermented it to dryness"
Rhône chef Simon Gastrein makes some excellent natural wines, his L'effreontée marsanne roussanne viognier blend is funky in a good way
Hey, cool page, cool videos man. I am trying to locate a case of a Wine from Greece called Estate Katsaros Red 2010 ... I had it in an Italian Restaurant a few weeks back and have been craving it ever since. The restaurant was selling it for £25 per glass. Would you happen to know where or how I can locate a case of this stuff. Would love for you to tase this and maybe review it. Looks like the only place selling it is the source, Greece?
Suspect wine professionals often favour what is 'interesting' / unusual over what actually tastes good. I have never not been disappointed with a natural wine.
Orange wine is my favourite wine, I'd love for you to do a deep dive on the style.
I love good wine! Does not matter for me that much whether wine is marketed as natural or not. There are many examples of wines (like Dido from one of your videos) that are just superb and there is no need to advertise them as natural ;)
Hey, I was wondering what your favourite wine is? Or favourite of each primary category right now? Maybe you could do a easy video on what red, white, sparkling, you most enjoy and why?
Looking forward for the same game with Georgian wines
i have to ask, is there any still wines from champagne that are still made today? if there is i hope they are easely available, i live in Norway and honestly, the wines available here are very select
I haven’t invested enough legitimate exploration of natural wines. This was a helpful nudge.
Dont do it its hipster marketing.
Don’t know if I have been unlucky but I recently purchased some natural wines in Berlin, mainly Pinot Noir from Alscace. Honestly, I can hardly drink them; to me they taste sour and there is an unpleasant sensation on the back of the throat which makes it hard to swallow. Today I opened a conventional wine to compare and was frankly relieved. The natural wine - it’s called Fusion - in front of me right now has not improved over two days and is destined to be thrown away. Does anybody have a similar experience?
4 for 4 the glass spinner had the wines on the correct side?
What are the chances...
6.25% I believe....a few more rounds and we would be able to detect whether the machine is "truly random" .... I guess after a few glasses it won't matter anyway 😅
Can't get on with natural wines, too often disappointed
Have you ever done one of these tastings with a great wine from Australia?
Check out Am Stein Silvaner from the Franken region.
Sometimes I equate organic wines as natural wines. Since the few encounters that I have had with organic wines, they were usually uninteresting and cheaper and less promoted. So, I usually skip them. I should try more of them esp the orange wines.
In general, I prefer natty juice for daily drinking, but they have yet to give me a spiritual drinking experience like some mature conventional wines have. It might be budget and patience, but that's the way it's been so far.
Yea I see your point .. aged natural wines are kinda hard to find though since a lot of wineries are fairly young. But the ones who do have older vintages are definitely worth seeking out for!
Have you tried Carl Koch's offerings? Their orange wines are absolutely divine, and extremely price competitive at £20 even after being exported to Denmark.
Thanks for the video! I have a question regarding malolactic conversion and natural wines? Is it fair to say that all natural wines would have to go through malolactic conversion before bottling for limited use of SO2 etc? Could be a giveaway for the natural whites then?
How would malo help with the drawbacks of lesser SO₂? I don't understand the chemistry you insinuate.
Empirically for me, if anything, natural wine tends to have crisper acidity. I do think though it's completely a matter of winemaker's choice.
@@zaphod333 If you want to avoid malo - as a choice of style for your wine (as many white wines do), then you use SO2 to make the wine microbial stable, sterile filter or use enzymes so that lactic bacteria won't begin the conversion of malic acid... As malolactic conversion affects both smell, taste and body of the wine (more buttery, creamy, fuller body mouthfeel (lactic acid is softer than malic acid), then it can be detected by the taster. All of the above methods to avoid malo do not go in line with the "nothing added, nothing taken away" mentality of the natural wine movement. Leading me back to my question that the crisp wine style of blocked MLF in white wines are not to be found amongst natural wines?
@@jarlthiesgaard2679 Thx Jarl. I was under the impression that thermoregulation was the preferred way to control malo, and it certainly is one option. However, I looked it up and indeed the measures you describe are used as well. I learned something here. Now, malo does have a stabilizing effect especially when only little sulfur is added, so I guess that justifies your question. My memory may betray me with regard to malo or not in natural wine; I'll pay particular attention from now on.
@@zaphod333 Yes, indeed thermoregulation by cooling down the wine prevents/slows the lactic bacteria and then raising the temp will enable them to work again. So in theory you could keep it stored cold, but after bottling the risk of malo occurring inside the bottle and making the wine hazy and maybe spoiled would be grand, so that my mentioned methods above would be employed. This is what I mean by if a wine is stable or not in bottle (if it will spoil). In fact Malo will raise the pH of the wine making it overall less stable - (as more active free SO2 is available and less will be inactive and bound in lower pH). This could be towards oxidation impact, as SO2 both from the primary fermenation or later additions is an antioxidant and antiseptic medium . In older times before thermoregulation the arrival of winter cool temp paused malo and the warming up of temp in spring activated the malolactic conversion. Hmm. If any one knows if a natural wine can be in the style of no malolactic conversion, then I would like to know. Would 20-40 mg/L SO2 (as some natural winemakers use before bottling, to give some stability to the wine, be toxic enough levels for lactic bacteria not to function??)
Great points here. Not all of them do but blocking Malo usually requires SO2 and allowing the wine to do Malo would ensure that it is more stable. So most natural wines go through Malo naturally/spontaneously.
OT: I’d like to see a blind tasting of 7-8 wines, each from a different country, all made from the same grape (eg Cabernet Sauvignon), and all at the same price point (eg $15-$20).
Nice idea
Clive you are so lucky
Conventional wines. Natural wines can taste good, but the price, the storage sensitivity. Also I don't like the oxidated (browned) apple smell/taste.
I am not picky about natural vs conventional. I do notice that the natural winemakers are very passionate about their wines, and some of them are quite good. There are great finds if your fortunate to live in a wine production area such as I do, in Oregon. These natural wines are almost always small production wineries, and some only produce a few hundred cases of a particular varietal. So, when you discover one of these great wines. You can visit the winemaker in person and hear their story and often obtain access to even more outstanding limited production wines.
I usually turn natural white wine bottles before opening and pouring quite a bit, because they are usually unfiltered and become cloudy when doing this (like the Vetter Sylvaner I have at home). You didn't do this and the wine was very clear in the tasting. Would you recommend not mixing the bottle sediments in this case?
I think that depends on your taste
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine I guess this telegram account comment above is fake?
I'm really into natural, bio/biodynamic wine, and I find that since really well made natural wines command a higher price, if you compare them to wines with a more conventional approach at a similar price, you often fall into a category of winemakers that also follow a more sustainable approach with their soil, their vines and their winemaking, although they're not practicing a strictly natural process. So the line gets a little more blurry.
As for the preference, I will always go for more freshness, fruit and racing acidity which I mostly find in natural wines. It seems to me as though it lets the fruit and the terroir express itself more genuinely. Only with very well made natural wines, of course. I recently had a Xarello from Partida Creus that I could've drank all by myself. The level of drinkability, for me, weighs a bit more in the balance.
Natural or biodynamic is a marketing scam as most wines were already made this way, it just became a hipster way to market what was already being done.
@PilsPlease wine was initially made this way, but a lot of producers eventually started to put more additives to ensure production levels and meet regulations. This wave of « marketing scam » as you call it, seems more like a way for a growing number of people to express what they want to experience when enjoying wine.
@@fredtougas I work in the industry I am a winemaker. And the additives are usually natural and necessary to produce better wine.
@@pilsplease7561 Well, like you say, usually, and some additives. The movement did bring a different way of looking at the industry and practices. It just seems a little harsh to call it a scam so bluntly as many winemakers and people working in the industry would disagree. But it's an interesting discussion to have.
@@pilsplease7561 Now, don't get me wrong, there is definitely a marketing component to it, my initial point was that at a certain price point, what we call here "conventional" wines, already tend to have a more sustainable and natural approach that isn't necessarily new. What we're seeing is winemakers putting out natural wines a lower price points to catch the wave, they're just not that great.
But it seems undeniable the "natural" movement that as begun many years ago, not just now, is a thing, it just wasn't a trend to the every day consumer. I read and heard interviews of many winemakeing families having to part with the ways of their parents or grandparents to produce a wine with less additives. And it wasn't a very well regarded practice before, and now that it's popular, more winemakers are embarking in the trend, although, like you said, some winemakers never stopped making wine this way. Natural just shouldn't be an excuse to make flawed wine.
How is your red wine doing? I can see the stainless steel tank standing behind you. Any updates soon?
Fascinating tasting Konstantin. When the natural movement was in its infancy I really disliked natural wine (felt like it was an excuse for bad wine making). Ive kept an open mind over the years and must say that there is a lot of good natural wine out there now.
It is a excuse for bad winemaking, natural winemaking is normal winemaking they are just hyping it vs not hyping it before. So its basically nothing new.
Hi Konstantin, this felt a bit of a cheat, blind testing not blinded... mmmhh ... how can we know that you didn't see the letters marked against the light when you were tasting them ? 😂
conventional - anytime 😀🍷🍷
As you can clearly see in the video point inflation is a thing
?
Of course he can, natural taste different period.
Lol, I can't help but be given the impression of some kind of kinky shit because the title says "can Master taste the difference" instead of "can A master taste the difference"
...... thanks for making me realize that
Funky natural ❤
Nice video!
Natural or conventional, doesn't really matter to me. The taste is what matters the most, not necessarily how it's produced. Even though is always nice to know the maker is putting in some extra effort to go off the beaten path.
One thing is for sure, once my vines start producing, I'm definitely going to start in the conventional way 😅
You mentioned the price difference between the two. One huge factor that is good to note is that natural wine makers are more often small businesses that don’t produce much.
I’d rather spend $40 for the independent natural wine than $20 for the mass production wine owned by a big beverage brand.
I can def tell. Conventional is heavier, has higher tanin and acohol. Natural wine is the only wine i drink
Did it help that the natural wine always ended up on your right side? Haha
"natural" 😆 wines- marketing term - "A fool and their money...." Whatever helps you sleep at night 😆
Can natural wines be aged?
Definitely. Just like with any other wine, you might wanna keep some of them in the cellar longer, depending on variety and style.
I must say that I’ve never tasted a natural wine that had a good taste and I wonder why. They always tasted bland and acidic and that was about it. However I’ve never tasted a natural that was more expensive than ~ 15€… could this be why?
Natural wines, are a risk the issue is that they use the yeast on the skins which can spoil the wine if it goes badly, and impart off flavors and they do not use sulfites which opens the wine to spoilage or to oxidation so they typically dont last very long.
@@pilsplease7561 so you’re basically saying I probably tasted only wines that went bad?
@@noir530 A lot of natural wines are bad because they do not have the quality control and they let microbes that are not desirable get into the wines and ferment and spoil them a lot, which makes bad wine, natural wines are just a bad idea in general way too much can go wrong and I view it as a excuse to hide behind when you make bad wine, just make bad wine and then claim that its "natural" and then everyone buys it and treats it different its a bunch of bullshit thats negatively impacting the industry. As a winemaker I hate it and think its a scam thats negatively impacting the industry and the consumer.
Often times I smell cloves in red natural wines. Could that be a defect?
It's a sign it spent a long time in oak or flavored with some sort of oak
Could also be a sign of brett
I would associate that flavor with oak
conventional
The thing that is so crazy about our world is how we claim that there is the "natural way" to grow food, and the "conventional way" to grow food.
For a little reminder, the "conventional way" for thousands of years was the natural way. "Conventional agriculture" that uses the latest technology, pesticides, herbicides, hybrids, GMOs etc. is a radical breaking away from conventional methods of raising food. We really need to examine this poor choice of word usage more closely. We are being manipulated industrialists.
The problem is, all natural wines (apart from some Pet Nats) I had so far (around 15) were also orange wines and to be honest among all these were only two I liked (one was the Graue Freyheit you recommended to me so thanks for this) although none of them was really great. In my opinion they all smelled and tasted somewhat like Apfelwein (some kind of apple cider) while stuck in fermentation and I do not seem to be that wrong with it because everyone who tried some of them with me also said this and because we are all Hessians you can trust me we all know how Apfelwein stuck in fermentation tastes ;-) and therefore agreed that they are all too expensive for something which you can get much cheaper (at least in Hessia). This might sound somewhat ignorant but it is simply the impression I got. Anyway I definetely have to try some natural wines which are no orange wines and also some red ones of course.
I think you were overly kind towards natural wines in your closing remarks. There are some huge flaws in many of the natural and organic wines that are impossible to overcome if you are a longtime wine lover.
But natural is conventional.... Modern wines
Not really, even in ancient times people were adulterating their wine and putting all kinds of random shit in it to attempt to improve it. It has been the conventional way for thousands of years.
Is it?
So natural is conventional
Algorithmus
?
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine mir fiel sonst nix ein, also kommentiere ich für den Algorithmus
I've never really given the Sulphites debate much thought until now , I was always told the negative aspects dissipates if you leave it to decant. Even though I enjoy the profile of natural and biodynamic wines, sulphites feel like an no brainer due to the increased shelf life and aging potential when merely a bit of patience is required to remove any negative preservative aromas or flavors. Am I missing something?
So natural wine at 3x the price of conventional wine is better. Not much of a surprise. I'd love to see a comparison of 2 wines at the same price point.
Always fascinating to me when people say something along the lines of "there are great natural wines but there are also bad natural wines out there."
As if the same could not be sad about conventional wines?
My point was that the natural wines in this tasting were very good examples of their category while the conventional ones were not necessarily all at the same level
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine Totally understand that. I just tend to hear that type of rhetoric a lot when it comes to natural wine, without much mention of the fact that conventional wines can also be of bad or good quality.
There's bad wine and good wine, regardless of what a winemaker may choose to add or subtract, etc.
How did all the natural wine end up on your right side? Interesting... All jokes aside, if money isn't an issue, which probably removes most of the people, natural wine would be the choice, I think.
Natural!!!
Lets get divorce mr Baum
? Didn't know we were married...
Much appreciate for your reply sir.
Here in Seoul, natural wines are trending. Definitely there are great quality of those, but sometimes I feel some group of people are too excited about it, and I get quite annoyed by that as a restaurant manager. So I thought this could be a good content to share to those people in order to calm them down.
Always looking forward to see your video within any topic or agenda. 👍🏾
'natural wines are more complex'... cmon? really? thats a oversimplification. they are more fruit / acidic driven, thats hardly more complex. conventional (aged) wines are way more structured and complex!
Agreed. But the expensive natural wines tasted were more complex then the relative junk they were compared to. Not surprising.
Natural Wines: a growing niche market or unaffordable 'wine geek' trend....
I'm being controversial, of course; and I haven't tried naturally made wines. I'd like to however after watching this.
Tony
Natural wines are not a “trend”. It’s how wines were made for thousands of years. We’ve only started making “conventional” wine in the last 100 years or so
@@TraceurRyuk Hi, you're of course right. I was just being a bit playful. I'd definitely be up for trying natural wines; I guess some people with sensitivities to sulfites, or who just want to keep to a totally natural product, will opt for natural wines.
I prefer Natural wines, especially the ones plenty of polyphenols and acidity from high altitude ... real wine is possible 😉