This video made me cry. My late wife, from Lutheran grandparents, was raised in Reformed churches. She married me a Lutheran and went with me to an overseas job. She was bothered by my comfort as a Christian. Upon our return to America she dragged me to a Pastor’s class thinking that I was insincere in my faith in Christ. When she was convicted that Baptism was God’s work and in Baptism she was washed clean she was joyful in her life in Christ. I was honored and humbled to witness her liberation from work’s righteousness.
This was me. Been attending a Lutheran church the last few months. Thanks to your channel and Rev Fisk, it was easy to find the authentic historical faith. We start classes tonight to officially join and will be getting baptized as a family this summer. Thank you for being a faithful and true witness.
I atarted studying the Book of Concord in February 2024 while I was still a member of a PCA church. I left the PCA church Sept 1 and i will be a new member at my new LCMS church this upcoming Reformation Sunday! God be praised! 🙏
On Pastor Wolfmeuller’s comments on the inversion of the free will: I found it exhausting as a teenager (Southern Baptist) trying to discern God’s will for my life. I read Charles Stanley’s how to listen to God, and our church did Rick Warren’s 40 days of purpose. I went into the 40 days basically hoping to have clear divine direction on college and career, but of course did not. The only actionable conclusion from the study is to do something at church that suits your interests, because God made those your interests. Once I got to the end only taking away that I should do something at church I was disappointed, and of course the disappointment made me feel guilty for feeling disappointed, and then I wondered why I didn’t get my life purpose and what I was doing wrong with Christianity. It’s truly exhausting, and I’m so glad I’m an LCMS Lutheran now.
I was raised Baptist (NAB) and switched to Lutheran during Covid. Long story, but I thought the clarity of the scriptures taught in the Lutheran church was more consistent. However, I am still thankful that I remember my baptism since I was 8 years old at the time. It was a very meaningful experience.. I praise God for being raised in a devout Christian home. My mom was Baptist, and my Dad was Church of Christ. They used to disagree over "Baptism saves." My Dad studies the Bible constantly, so he changed to Baptist, and after years of decision conversion switched to Reformed Baptist. Now he's trying to convince me of TULIP. But I can't see that John 3:16 and other verses are for only the elect. Twisting the scripture to say God is not willing for the elect to perish, instead of the plain reading of anyone, seems to add words to the Bible. That's what happened when I studied Baptism in depth. I didn't realize how many verses said God was doing something. I had always thought it was my witness that I was saved. I love that whiteboard. Thanks for sharing. I made a table with verses about being saved by faith, verses about baptism, and verses about the Holy Spirit. THis helped me see how the verses went together.
Ask your father to read the marrow of modern divinity rendition with Thomas Boston foreword. I believe Thomas Boston was an in-the-closet Lutheran. But even when I was in the Reformed mindset, God was delivering me a way out.
This was very encouraging, thank you. I too am from the Dayton OH area and grew up in a MacArthurite household (though my dad would object to the term). My journey first went to a free grace position which was a relief from the very struggle chad described with lordship salvation. But after about 10 years of that i started to have struggles with aspects of credo Baptist dispensational theology, as well as Baptist culture. I started to investigate other Christian traditions and I liked a lot about Lutheranism, but i struggled with the sacremental approach to baptism. Then one day God opened my eyes while I was reading Romans 6 and it finally clicked. I've read the BoC and am devouring as much confessional Lutheran works as I can. My wife is still reluctant to move away from the Baptist world, but I can see God working on her heart.
Thanks Pastor Wolfmueller and Pastor Bressen. I started my life in Christ as a Baptist, then I became a Reformed Baptist now I'm attending a Presbyterian church but none of these traditions have helped me to see that Christ accomplished all that needed to take place so I can be reconciled to God. Within the last two years I have been listening to 1517 a Lutheran organization that Rod Rosebladt is part of, I have been to one Lutheran conference. I have found Lutheran theology more comforting to me than the others which constantly emphasize my working with God to keep me saved. I have decided to devote 2024 to read and study Lutheran theology, I'm currently reading a book by a Lutheran author entitled The Spirituality of the Cross by Gene Edward Veith Jr.
I’m in a weird spot. I’m Lutheran educated, from a non Lutheran home. Got born again at 18. Became a Pentecostal (trinitarian) pastor at 34. Planted a church and after 12 years closed my church and went back to help my pastor. My pastor died in 2020. I’m 56 now and back to exploring my roots of Lutheranism and seeing a lot of truths! I struggle with the sacramental side, but the soteriology is spot on I think!
To simplify the sacraments: let God be true though every man a liar. If Christ says "this is my body," believe it. If he says "baptism now saves you," believe it. God does not lie.
A weird spot is a good way to describe being caught in two very different traditions. I am from a Charismatic Non-denom church. Through a search for more biblical teaching, I was brought into the Lutheran Church. I go with my family to the Charismatic church on Sundays and on Wednesdays I go alone to the LCMS church. It is a strange time. Becoming used to the liturgy flips your world. I am beginning to understand that all God gives us is gift in Jesus Christ.
@@robertmayes640 Thanks for reaching out to me. I’ve always carried over Martin Luther into any direction I go in ministry. Don’t know the future but maybe I will return fully to it, maybe not. No matter I’m friends with it.
I, too, am in a weird place. I was raised Lutheran (ELCA) and left for the obvious reasons. I was looking for a church that ordained men, not women and the only church I could find was Mennonite (Anabaptist). I was not going Roman! Unfortunately, the Anabaptists do not do the Sacraments (it's just a symbol). They take the Bible literally, except for the Sacraments......hm. Anyway, the clergy come from within the congregation and as such, have no education past 10th grade. No college, no seminary, no training in ancient languages and church fathers. Nothing. As a result, the hour-long sermons are full of personal opinion, made-up information and falsehood. There are 'guidelines' on clothing, vehicle color, type of employment, ad nauseum. I have tried to fit in, but it just doesn't sit right. My husband is not a Christian and would not support me driving a long distance 'just to go to church'. The closest LCMS is about an hour away. I don't know if they would let me commune, since I came from ELCA. I keep praying this situation will someday be resolved.
Thank you for doing this Pastor Wolfmueller! I have struggled as a reformed baptist pastor being convinced of Lutheranism since 2015, but not sure how to move forward. I resonate with so much of what Pastor Bresson says. Praying for a way to get involved in the Lutheran Church.
I grew up LCMS, but I did attend some non-denominational services in college. One time they had a guest speaker who told everyone that we have blood on our hands and we’re going to hell if we don’t convert a ton of people to Christianity. It was pretty scary to hear someone speaking in that manner. Right after the fire & brimstone speech was over, our weekly Bible study teacher immediately told us that the guest speaker went way too far and that our personal salvation is all about our individual faith in Jesus. This instruction lines up with everything I learned as a kid and teenager with LCMS.
I was interested in Catholicism and even joined RCIA twice, but couldnt pull the trigger. I cannot in good conscience worship Mary or believe in purgatory like the RCC would have me do, but I also can't believe that the Lord's Supper is a mere memorial like the Evangelical Free church down the street would have me to believe. Now I'm looking into Confessional Lutheranism again.
Thank you pastors for this awesome conversation. I like Chad, came from a Calvinist and reformed world. All Praise Glory and Honor to God our Father who called us from Darkness into His marvelous light through Christ Our Lord and Savior in whom we put all our trust, not our works, but trusting in Him by the Power of the Holy Spirit. No hamster wheel for those who are in Christ Jesus the perfector of our faith who said... "Trust in me, This is for you for the forgiveness of your sins, Baptism now saves you!, it is FINISHED, God therefore and make disciples of all nations Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". God and tell the world the Good News of Christ who didn't get on a cross so we get in a hamster wheel, But so we can cast all of our burdens unto Him.
❤❤im Lutheran and the gospel preached every week is a must. I pray more pastors will close their sermons with a view of what they have said relates the grace profound yo the Gospel. I had a pastor that did that and it grestly affected me. He's not with us anymore so I pray all pastors will zero in on the grace and freedom found in the gospel. ❤❤
Its great to hear about your story Pastor, I came to Lutheranism from a simmilar background and although im greatful for my evangelical upbringing and all it taught me, I have fond in Luthernism alot of joy and comfort alomg with theology that is more faithful to the scriptures. That being said I feel like you and Pastor Wofmuler were a little unfair to reformed folk in this video. For instance the Reformed are monergists, they do not hold a memeorial view of the sacraments, they agree with Augustine on the four distinctions of mans will, they belive repentance is a gift, and most are oposed to "Lordship salvation" ect. I think this could have been avoided if you had directed your criticism against "Baptists" and maybe even named some names rather than speaking against the "reformed" as if they all believe like John MacArthur or John Piper. In addition the Reformed to not reject the existance of paradoxes, I learned the distinction between paradox, mystery, and contradiction from R.C. Sproul. Finally I dont think your correct in claiming that Lutherans reject Causation, Scholaticism, or logic. We do rject the works righteousness of the medival scholastics but we dont throw reason out the window. All this being said I respect both of you guys and am sympathetic to alot of what you said. We need to be careful or misrepresenting out oponents and as someone who came from a non-lutheran background I still have alot of love and respect for people in the evanglical and refomed traditions and dont think we should only talk about the bad things in those traditions.
Beautiful presentation from both Pastors! Its like Pastor Bressen and I came to the same understanding of the faith despite going down different paths of vocation! I wrestled with Luke 23:39-43 (thief passage) until re-reading John 19:34 (esv): "34But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water." The Word and Sacraments delivered to you dear brothers and sisters. Don't let any pastor tell you different, even if they are lutheran. Jesus Christ gave us the thief passages to show us we do nothing but receive, over and over again. Even our repentance is a gift. C.F.W. Walthers said in his law and gospel sessions we are "all" naturally conceited beings. So when you come to John 3:30 (My favorite for rearing in my pride)"He must increase, but I must decrease." So take your %percentage of pride and drop that all the way down to 0%. That way the Holy Spirit can start directing you while you read and hear the scriptures. And go to a church that gives you the Sacraments weekly!! Those churches that starve you for a month or more truly aren't feeding you. You could rehash Romans 1:18b (NKJV)to their ear bulbs "who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,". 😮
Thank you guys so much for this wonderful conversation. I've been chewing on many of the topics you two touched over the last year and I can feel it starting to click into place! What an edifying and beautiful discussion. A great encouragement!
I was raised ELCA and felt like I was constantly being watched and scrutinized by God. I was taught any suffering such as illness or injury was my fault because I sinned. I am still struggling with the idea that we don’t have to try every second to be perfect. I don’t believe this teaching came from our Church, I think it came from my mom who is severely mentally ill. I want to attend an LCMS church but the closest one is 2 hours away.
@@Carina_Rose yes. Written,called,went to a meeting... It seems the powers that be, feel there's not enough people. Well there's at least 10 families. 3 young families. Plus ALL the vacationing people. Right now all that's in the whole county is VERY liberal elca. It's quite sad. We truly need a pastor. Please Lord.
Exactly our story! And couldn't agree more about Pastor Bresson's comment at the end talking about the materials catering to Lutherans and not to the "tire kickers". How do share and explain all of the wonderful truths that we have in a way that connects and relates to people that are outside the church doors?
Sounds similar to my story. Thank you both so very much. Also thank you for clarification on the church of Christ standing on the issue of baptism! I have been wondering the question on the coc baptism for a while and that has haunted me.
"I hate sinーand I commit it. The mind hates it, the flesh desires it, but I am in both" - St. Ambrose of Milan, On Jacob and the Happy Life, bk. I, 4.15
This is a wonderful discussion!! I have the same experience. Growing up in what was supposed to be a Lutheran church but which had fallen into heresy!! It was the Apostolic Lutheran Church. We still name our church that because when our forefathers came here over 100 years ago, they wanted to remain Lutheran. So in our new church we have studied and believe the Book of Concord. We however do not have a formal liturgy (though most of us find no fault with it). But we are generally in agreement with the real Lutheran teaching! I have listened to you often!!
Oh wow...I am Lutheran but grew up in Disciples of Christ. I then became Reformed and his experience in the Reformed church was nothing like what I found! I found Faith and Grace alone and nothing about works or pride. Being in the Reformed church is what God used for me to grow into the Lutheran teachings. I found the Reformed were so positive of Luther and his teachings even when they disagree, but at times Lutherans are very harsh and insulting towards the Reformed which really bothers me. I believe I can be Lutheran and still love my Reformed brothers and sisters.
About 10 years ago, I was in Austin at a "Soccer Fun Day" event for some Lutheran Churches, and I was chatting about this stuff with a vicar who was there. He remarked, "Yeah, Reformed Theology sure blunts the power of the Gospel, doesn't it." I think he's right, that's exactly what Reformed Theology does.
That's my church. The definition of a TRUE Christian church is l: Salvation is by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in the FINISHED work of Jesus Christ.
I was in very similar situation but from a Pentecostal background. I deconstructed my apologetics and got a better understanding of apologetics, and then the Lord challenged me A LOT in my theology.
I'm presently at @21:58, as someone raised in a sort of revivalist adjacent non-demon church, discovering the doctrine of election within the reformed tradition literally is what saved me from continually doubting my salvation (I responded to altar calls at least 12 times growing up). It doesn't resonate with me where Pastor Chad talks about the treadmill of works etc, to me, a lot of the issues he is blaming on reformed theology is more of a baptist issue than a Presbyterian (I'm presently a member of a PCA church). Every church service we have our confession of sin and assurance of pardon. I do wish we actually practiced confession and absolution like the Lutherans do, because the way we do it does feel insufficient. We have a public scripted admission of sin, a moment to confess our sins privately (but not out loud), and an assurance of pardon that were literally the words of scripture -- although I do think they stretch the verses that could be used. I do find myself continually craving this/wishing my church did this. I am very tempted to be Lutheran, heck, I'm listening to Bryan Wolfmueller via Rev Fisk, I presently am on board with the Sacramental Union view, but I have a real difficulty with 2cv violations and genuflection to a graven image of Jesus. I'm sort of softening to the last point, but it still bothers my conscience. I had attended an ELS church back in college (but I wasn't permitted to take the Supper), but they didn't have any crucifixes etc, the last time I visited a LCMS church about a year ago the procession and the genuflection to an image of Jesus really felt like idolatry to me. I love so much about what I hear with Lutheranism, but that's probably my biggest barrier to entry right now.
I agree with you . I came out of the non denominational baptist world and now a member of my local OPC and find great comfort each week in the means of grace . I adore my Lutheran brothers and sisters as well and have been blessed by them .
I just started hearing about Celebration of Life 10 years ago. I thought the main difference was there was a slide show instead of the coffin. I hated seeing my Grandma in an open casket 20 plus years ago. It wasn't her; her soul was in heaven. I know her body will be raised again, but her personality, love, etc. was in the presence of Jesus. I don't see that as bad. We grieve not as the world grieves. We grieve because we miss that person, but we have the hope of the resurrection.
My mother had a deep and quiet faith. Every now and then she would say, "The Gospel gives me joy." 2 weeks before she died at 102 yrs she said several times, "I'm going to see Jesus." She and my father brought the seven of us to Christ in Baptism as infants and sent us to LCMS Lutheran school. My faith as a Lutheran is my comfort and joy.
I remember the day it dawned on me that Paul Washer is an ironic Charles Finney. He correctly preaches hard against Finneys Altar Call, but what he offers instead is the exact same solution, just that instead of calling you to the altar, he tells the unsaved/unsure to (im paraphrasing here) «..go home, lock yourself in your bedroom and pray until God does a supernatural work in you..» And when I realized this, I despaired, because what was better with this «sacrament» over the other? Thanks be to God he sendt me a Confessional Lutheran minister just in time.
Great discussion! I absolutely loved what was said about Lordship Salvation. Has anything been as destructive in the past 50 years? The only thing I would suggest is the way we are using the word “Reformed”. The main proponents of LS were men like John MacArthur and Paul Washer, neither of whom are confessionally reformed. It would be better to call them Calvinistic. The confessionally reformed would generally reject Lordship salvation
Correct. Particular Baptists that hold to the 1689 2nd London Confession of Faith are technically Reformed Baptists. Non confessional dispensational Calvinistic Baptists are just Calvinistic Baptists
So sad to see that on The Table's web site there is no indication that it is associated with the LCMS. If the video on the site is of an actual Divine Service, what has any of it got to do with historical liturgical practice? I suppose the response will be that they don't want to "scare" anyone off. Phooey!
If you are talking about LCMS, then you must believe the pastor is how you come into contact with God's grace, the pastor holds the keys to heaven and your salvation is through your pastor.
What is this correspondence between Calvin and Luther? There was correspondence between Calvin and Melanchthon, who were friends. It is always important, speaking as a former Reformed Baptist and a former Calvinist, to bear in mind that Reformed Baptists really aren't Calvinists. At most they have Calvinistic elements in their soteriology.
Good observation. I’ve always found it strange how reformed/Calvinistic baptists proudly call themselves Calvinists, and Calvin affirmed infant baptism. Granted, I know they are taking the soteriology from the rest of Calvin’s theology, but still.
Calvin reached out to Luther many times but Luther never replied to or met Calvin. Of course Calvin and Philipp Melanchthon hung out. Phillip actually would bare his soul to Calvin and cry on his chest while John held him. Calvin wanted the Reformation united. Phillip made a change to the Augsburg Confession concerning the Lord's Supper. Calvin signed it. It was called the Variata. Lutherans ultimately rejected the Variata. All this history is in the Historical Introductions to the Book of Concord by Bente.
In my experience repentance equaled "Turn or Burn." "You are firgiven but we are going to watch you. You are on probation." Make sure your Bible translation starts with a K and end with a V. Make sure your hair is a certain length and make sure your dress code meets a certain standard,
What’s sad is that confessional Lutheranism, like that of the Missouri synod, is so unknown! The liberal ELCA is about all that many Christians know of the Lutheran faith. I came out of the Seventh Day Adventist church, finally found my way to the LCMS. In my men’s group we have former Catholics, a former Church of Christ along with me. All of us had the experience of ‘Lutheran? What’s that?!’ So many Christians (and non believers) would be interested if we were more visible; if we spoke or wrote more simply and clearly what we believe!
The 4 spiritual laws booklet was popular in the 80s and I think it or a similar booklet had a picture of Jesus in a heart but not on the throne, so you were saved but Jesus wasn't Lord. I wondered as a teen, how can I be saved if He isn't Lord? I believed once saved always saved, so I wasn't worried about losing my salvation like my Penecostal/Assembly of God friends, but something seemed very off to me.
It appears that Mr. Bresson forgot to finish all of Acts 22:16 as he was quoting it 59:02 . Here is the whole verse "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name." [ESV] or "What are you waiting for? Get up and be baptized. Have your sins washed away by calling on the name of the Lord." [NLT]. I would argue that the whole passage clearly shows salvation through "calling on his name". I don't disagree that salvation is God's work and nothing of our own.
Not gonna lie I’m pretty confused here 23:08 😅 I was raised and saved out of a hyper charismatic,WOF church bout 3 years ago. I’ve spent the last few years listening to many reformed Baptists, a few Presbyterians and a few Lutherans. Everything you’ve talked on in the last 20 minutes sounds a lot more like what I learned in the WOF/non dom church and been stronghold opposed by the reformed guys I listen to. Idk I could be missing something but I feel like you misrepresented the reformed position. Like I said though I’m still young both in years and in the faith so if I’m missing something I apologize! Thank you pastor Brian for your channel i love what you do!
Always unfortunate when "Calvinist baptist" is equated with "Reformed". Also odd to hear around the 8:50 mark the idea that there isn't absolution and assurance of pardon-this is sort of foreign to Reformed theology. Proper Reformed liturgy includes both. Another reason why Calvinist Baptists shouldn't be the example for Reformed faith, practice and piety. Interesting discussion, nonetheless.
I have a friend that just HATES infant Baptism. She belongs to evangelical churches. She has often asked me about my conversion moment. She does not understand being a cradle Christian that was Baptized as a baby. She grew up Catholic and is not very anti-Catholic. She also thinks The Lord's Supper is just a memorial feast. She also talks about making a decision to believe
Consider Andrew Das' book on baptism then. Written after many conversations with his girlfriend at the time who was staunch against Baptismal regeneration and infant Baptism. But she was Biblical, so Das argues only from Scripture. And nails it.
Tell her to search Scott Hahn, Shane Page, Steve Ray, Keith Nester and many more Protestant preachers who were once anti Catholic but converted to One True Catholic Church because of truth.
It’s taught, but in soooo many churches it is counseled differently. I’ve had this very conversation with many friends across the country. The gospel is preached but the prosperity gospel is what is counseled. Even at MacArthurs church.
Actually Westminster, read carefully, does say baptism normally saves. And no real Calvinist is a decisionist. When we became Calvinist our Baptist relatives clearly realized we'd left the reservation. That was much more shocking for them than when moved from Presbyterian to Lutheran.
You are absolutely right concerning the Westminster and baptism, and it really irked me that, during my time in Calvinism, Calvinsts either 1.) did not actually know what Calvinism historically taught regarding the sacraments or 2.) did not care about it.
Were you Reformed or Baptist? I don’t recognize many of your comments having attended a conservative confessional Presbyterian. For example, Lordship Salvation is NOT a teaching of the Presbyterian Church. That said, I am intrigued by much I’m hearing from my Lutheran brothers, particularly the group in the White Horse Inn and Issues Etc. Perhaps I’m a Luthertarian? I was once told that Presbyterianism is the gateway drug to Lutheranism. Perhaps that will be me.
Your definition of grief is extremely close to the psychological definition of grief Pastor Wolfmueller. Maybe even a better working definition, one that is easier to actually use
So, I am on the opposite side.i have been a lutheran, my entire life. I am so disappointed in our Synod and the stance they have taken on the articles they have allowed in the large catechism. I feel like they are becoming a flimsy Reed in regards to many social issues. I am thinking of leaving the lutheran church. I absolutely love my faith and my beliefs, but I am not sure I can any longer support our Synod. I am certainly struggling.
Almost every tradition has this same type of issue. Fortunately there are several confessional conservative LCMS churches in my area. If your pastor and church haven't gone woke then just sit tight. 🙏
Presbyterians and Baptist consider themselves as one thing with the freedom to have different approaches to baptism and holy supper. This is not the case with us, lutherans. For us, it is not at all a difference of opinion, but the essence of ours ''extra nos'' theology, assurance of salvation, grace not deeds. For the Presbyterians now, the few, very few among them, who take the sacraments as ''something serious, beyond my understanding'', the difference with us, lutherans, is the ''here and now''. They can not accept it. No, for them, it is ''there and without the importance lutherans give to it''. Maybe we have to start using again the word ''heretic'' in order to give emphasis to the fact we do not at all say and believe the same thing and that these things matter, they are not of secondary importance, insignificant, matter of opinion, democracy of ideas etc.
@@dave1370 Thanks for the reply. I would never say a child shouldn’t be baptized, I’m speaking of “infant” baptism. There are passages in the NT which speak of households being baptized. Praise God. But I think given the established pattern in Acts (believe then be baptized) I don’t know why we would assume that there were infants baptized. Even some of the “household” passages explicitly say it. In Acts 18:8, one of the household passages, Crispus and his household are baptized, and the text says that the entire household believed.
You guys are not talking about Reformed but sounds more like Arminian theology! I don't know what churches you went to but Reformed theology is not what you are speaking about!
"Fruit inspection," as you call it, is not "works based salvation." Fruit inspection is an important way for you to make sure that you are grafted into the correct tree. For, as the Bible says, you shall know them by their fruits. No, we are not saved by our fruit, by our acts, but our fruits, our acts are an indication if we are sincerely living for Christ or if we are simply giving God lip service. Therefore, if you are serious about living for Christ a "fruit inspection" is a productive way to ensure the health of your grafting. For if you are not producing fruit of the tree then you are NOT of the tree, for every branch of the tree produces fruit. Thus, how can you benefit of the nourishment, the water of the tree if you are not actually connected to the tree. Do you know who I am? I am an alarm clock. Do you know?
As a Reformed Baptist pastor I can assure you that we preach justification by faith alone in Christ alone. Full stop. Additionally, we preach that "They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified, really and personally, through *the same virtue*, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them ..."
This video made me cry. My late wife, from Lutheran grandparents, was raised in Reformed churches. She married me a Lutheran and went with me to an overseas job.
She was bothered by my comfort as a Christian. Upon our return to America she dragged me to a Pastor’s class thinking that I was insincere in my faith in Christ. When she was convicted that Baptism was God’s work and in Baptism she was washed clean she was joyful in her life in Christ.
I was honored and humbled to witness her liberation from work’s righteousness.
This was me. Been attending a Lutheran church the last few months. Thanks to your channel and Rev Fisk, it was easy to find the authentic historical faith. We start classes tonight to officially join and will be getting baptized as a family this summer. Thank you for being a faithful and true witness.
Awesome. Now get the frog out of your profile picture - it’s pretty juvenile.
Leave the frog bro the frog is awesome
@@lukeunderwood163so graceful of you …
@@lukeunderwood163 the irony of your comment
@@titaniumspike1779 I stand by what I said. A mature man doesn't have cartoon frogs for his profile.
I atarted studying the Book of Concord in February 2024 while I was still a member of a PCA church. I left the PCA church Sept 1 and i will be a new member at my new LCMS church this upcoming Reformation Sunday! God be praised! 🙏
On Pastor Wolfmeuller’s comments on the inversion of the free will: I found it exhausting as a teenager (Southern Baptist) trying to discern God’s will for my life. I read Charles Stanley’s how to listen to God, and our church did Rick Warren’s 40 days of purpose. I went into the 40 days basically hoping to have clear divine direction on college and career, but of course did not. The only actionable conclusion from the study is to do something at church that suits your interests, because God made those your interests. Once I got to the end only taking away that I should do something at church I was disappointed, and of course the disappointment made me feel guilty for feeling disappointed, and then I wondered why I didn’t get my life purpose and what I was doing wrong with Christianity. It’s truly exhausting, and I’m so glad I’m an LCMS Lutheran now.
This is really good. I appreciate this so much as a new 2 year Lutheran after 20 years of pentecostalism.
I've sent it to my kids.
I was raised Baptist (NAB) and switched to Lutheran during Covid. Long story, but I thought the clarity of the scriptures taught in the Lutheran church was more consistent. However, I am still thankful that I remember my baptism since I was 8 years old at the time. It was a very meaningful experience.. I praise God for being raised in a devout Christian home. My mom was Baptist, and my Dad was Church of Christ. They used to disagree over "Baptism saves." My Dad studies the Bible constantly, so he changed to Baptist, and after years of decision conversion switched to Reformed Baptist. Now he's trying to convince me of TULIP. But I can't see that John 3:16 and other verses are for only the elect. Twisting the scripture to say God is not willing for the elect to perish, instead of the plain reading of anyone, seems to add words to the Bible. That's what happened when I studied Baptism in depth. I didn't realize how many verses said God was doing something. I had always thought it was my witness that I was saved. I love that whiteboard. Thanks for sharing. I made a table with verses about being saved by faith, verses about baptism, and verses about the Holy Spirit. THis helped me see how the verses went together.
Ask your father to read the marrow of modern divinity rendition with Thomas Boston foreword. I believe Thomas Boston was an in-the-closet Lutheran. But even when I was in the Reformed mindset, God was delivering me a way out.
Thank you! I will look for that book online.
This was very encouraging, thank you. I too am from the Dayton OH area and grew up in a MacArthurite household (though my dad would object to the term). My journey first went to a free grace position which was a relief from the very struggle chad described with lordship salvation. But after about 10 years of that i started to have struggles with aspects of credo Baptist dispensational theology, as well as Baptist culture. I started to investigate other Christian traditions and I liked a lot about Lutheranism, but i struggled with the sacremental approach to baptism. Then one day God opened my eyes while I was reading Romans 6 and it finally clicked. I've read the BoC and am devouring as much confessional Lutheran works as I can. My wife is still reluctant to move away from the Baptist world, but I can see God working on her heart.
Thanks Pastor Wolfmueller and Pastor Bressen. I started my life in Christ as a Baptist, then I became a Reformed Baptist now I'm attending a Presbyterian church but none of these traditions have helped me to see that Christ accomplished all that needed to take place so I can be reconciled to God. Within the last two years I have been listening to 1517 a Lutheran organization that Rod Rosebladt is part of, I have been to one Lutheran conference. I have found Lutheran theology more comforting to me than the others which constantly emphasize my working with God to keep me saved. I have decided to devote 2024 to read and study Lutheran theology, I'm currently reading a book by a Lutheran author entitled The Spirituality of the Cross by Gene Edward Veith Jr.
The greatest sermon on baptism I’ve ever heard! Thanks to both of you. Especially Pastor Bresson for his enthusiastic and emotional epiphany.
Beautiful interview. Lutheran theology gives great comfort to the soul.
I’m in a weird spot. I’m Lutheran educated, from a non Lutheran home. Got born again at 18. Became a Pentecostal (trinitarian) pastor at 34. Planted a church and after 12 years closed my church and went back to help my pastor. My pastor died in 2020. I’m 56 now and back to exploring my roots of Lutheranism and seeing a lot of truths! I struggle with the sacramental side, but the soteriology is spot on I think!
As a fellow LCMS pastor, want to talk about some of these difficulties?
To simplify the sacraments: let God be true though every man a liar. If Christ says "this is my body," believe it. If he says "baptism now saves you," believe it. God does not lie.
A weird spot is a good way to describe being caught in two very different traditions. I am from a Charismatic Non-denom church. Through a search for more biblical teaching, I was brought into the Lutheran Church. I go with my family to the Charismatic church on Sundays and on Wednesdays I go alone to the LCMS church. It is a strange time. Becoming used to the liturgy flips your world. I am beginning to understand that all God gives us is gift in Jesus Christ.
@@robertmayes640 Thanks for reaching out to me. I’ve always carried over Martin Luther into any direction I go in ministry. Don’t know the future but maybe I will return fully to it, maybe not. No matter I’m friends with it.
I, too, am in a weird place. I was raised Lutheran (ELCA) and left for the obvious reasons. I was looking for a church that ordained men, not women and the only church I could find was Mennonite (Anabaptist). I was not going Roman! Unfortunately, the Anabaptists do not do the Sacraments (it's just a symbol). They take the Bible literally, except for the Sacraments......hm. Anyway, the clergy come from within the congregation and as such, have no education past 10th grade. No college, no seminary, no training in ancient languages and church fathers. Nothing. As a result, the hour-long sermons are full of personal opinion, made-up information and falsehood. There are 'guidelines' on clothing, vehicle color, type of employment, ad nauseum. I have tried to fit in, but it just doesn't sit right. My husband is not a Christian and would not support me driving a long distance 'just to go to church'. The closest LCMS is about an hour away. I don't know if they would let me commune, since I came from ELCA. I keep praying this situation will someday be resolved.
Thank you for doing this Pastor Wolfmueller! I have struggled as a reformed baptist pastor being convinced of Lutheranism since 2015, but not sure how to move forward. I resonate with so much of what Pastor Bresson says. Praying for a way to get involved in the Lutheran Church.
I grew up LCMS, but I did attend some non-denominational services in college. One time they had a guest speaker who told everyone that we have blood on our hands and we’re going to hell if we don’t convert a ton of people to Christianity. It was pretty scary to hear someone speaking in that manner.
Right after the fire & brimstone speech was over, our weekly Bible study teacher immediately told us that the guest speaker went way too far and that our personal salvation is all about our individual faith in Jesus. This instruction lines up with everything I learned as a kid and teenager with LCMS.
I was interested in Catholicism and even joined RCIA twice, but couldnt pull the trigger. I cannot in good conscience worship Mary or believe in purgatory like the RCC would have me do, but I also can't believe that the Lord's Supper is a mere memorial like the Evangelical Free church down the street would have me to believe. Now I'm looking into Confessional Lutheranism again.
This always touches my heart, Ive wstched it a few tine . I can practically feel the love through the screen!
Thank you pastors for this awesome conversation. I like Chad, came from a Calvinist and reformed world. All Praise Glory and Honor to God our Father who called us from Darkness into His marvelous light through Christ Our Lord and Savior in whom we put all our trust, not our works, but trusting in Him by the Power of the Holy Spirit. No hamster wheel for those who are in Christ Jesus the perfector of our faith who said... "Trust in me, This is for you for the forgiveness of your sins, Baptism now saves you!, it is FINISHED, God therefore and make disciples of all nations Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit". God and tell the world the Good News of Christ who didn't get on a cross so we get in a hamster wheel, But so we can cast all of our burdens unto Him.
❤❤im Lutheran and the gospel preached every week is a must. I pray more pastors will close their sermons with a view of what they have said relates the grace profound yo the Gospel. I had a pastor that did that and it grestly affected me. He's not with us anymore so I pray all pastors will zero in on the grace and freedom found in the gospel. ❤❤
Its great to hear about your story Pastor, I came to Lutheranism from a simmilar background and although im greatful for my evangelical upbringing and all it taught me, I have fond in Luthernism alot of joy and comfort alomg with theology that is more faithful to the scriptures. That being said I feel like you and Pastor Wofmuler were a little unfair to reformed folk in this video. For instance the Reformed are monergists, they do not hold a memeorial view of the sacraments, they agree with Augustine on the four distinctions of mans will, they belive repentance is a gift, and most are oposed to "Lordship salvation" ect. I think this could have been avoided if you had directed your criticism against "Baptists" and maybe even named some names rather than speaking against the "reformed" as if they all believe like John MacArthur or John Piper. In addition the Reformed to not reject the existance of paradoxes, I learned the distinction between paradox, mystery, and contradiction from R.C. Sproul. Finally I dont think your correct in claiming that Lutherans reject Causation, Scholaticism, or logic. We do rject the works righteousness of the medival scholastics but we dont throw reason out the window. All this being said I respect both of you guys and am sympathetic to alot of what you said. We need to be careful or misrepresenting out oponents and as someone who came from a non-lutheran background I still have alot of love and respect for people in the evanglical and refomed traditions and dont think we should only talk about the bad things in those traditions.
I was Calvinist for 5-6 years and boy do I feel the love of God since becoming Lutheran the week after Easter of this year.
Same! 🙏
Beautiful presentation from both Pastors! Its like Pastor Bressen and I came to the same understanding of the faith despite going down different paths of vocation! I wrestled with Luke 23:39-43 (thief passage) until re-reading John 19:34 (esv): "34But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water." The Word and Sacraments delivered to you dear brothers and sisters. Don't let any pastor tell you different, even if they are lutheran. Jesus Christ gave us the thief passages to show us we do nothing but receive, over and over again. Even our repentance is a gift. C.F.W. Walthers said in his law and gospel sessions we are "all" naturally conceited beings. So when you come to John 3:30 (My favorite for rearing in my pride)"He must increase, but I must decrease." So take your %percentage of pride and drop that all the way down to 0%. That way the Holy Spirit can start directing you while you read and hear the scriptures. And go to a church that gives you the Sacraments weekly!! Those churches that starve you for a month or more truly aren't feeding you. You could rehash Romans 1:18b (NKJV)to their ear bulbs "who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,". 😮
Thank you guys so much for this wonderful conversation. I've been chewing on many of the topics you two touched over the last year and I can feel it starting to click into place!
What an edifying and beautiful discussion. A great encouragement!
Eye-opening [from a Lutheran]. Great answers to pietism. Bless you!!
I was raised ELCA and felt like I was constantly being watched and scrutinized by God. I was taught any suffering such as illness or injury was my fault because I sinned. I am still struggling with the idea that we don’t have to try every second to be perfect. I don’t believe this teaching came from our Church, I think it came from my mom who is severely mentally ill. I want to attend an LCMS church but the closest one is 2 hours away.
What a great, uplifting interview! God be praised, thank you!
I cannot thank you both enough for this.
I know this guy! Great man, great story.
All I can say... God be praised ! Please Lord, bring us a LCMS tho Cape May County NJ
Have you written the LCMS to ask about them planting a church there? They might if they know for sure there are people wanting to attend.
@@Carina_Rose yes. Written,called,went to a meeting... It seems the powers that be, feel there's not enough people. Well there's at least 10 families. 3 young families. Plus ALL the vacationing people. Right now all that's in the whole county is VERY liberal elca. It's quite sad. We truly need a pastor. Please Lord.
Exactly our story! And couldn't agree more about Pastor Bresson's comment at the end talking about the materials catering to Lutherans and not to the "tire kickers". How do share and explain all of the wonderful truths that we have in a way that connects and relates to people that are outside the church doors?
Thank You Lord for your love & thank you Pastor for sharing this. To God be the Glory!
Sounds similar to my story. Thank you both so very much. Also thank you for clarification on the church of Christ standing on the issue of baptism! I have been wondering the question on the coc baptism for a while and that has haunted me.
"I hate sinーand I commit it. The mind hates it, the flesh desires it, but I am in both" - St. Ambrose of Milan, On Jacob and the Happy Life, bk. I, 4.15
Thank you for this quote!
That book is gold.
This is a wonderful discussion!! I have the same experience. Growing up in what was supposed to be a Lutheran church but which had fallen into heresy!! It was the Apostolic Lutheran Church. We still name our church that because when our forefathers came here over 100 years ago, they wanted to remain Lutheran. So in our new church we have studied and believe the Book of Concord. We however do not have a formal liturgy (though most of us find no fault with it). But we are generally in agreement with the real Lutheran teaching! I have listened to you often!!
Loved that definition of grief and the beauty of sadness.
Spot on 👌🏻
Oh wow...I am Lutheran but grew up in Disciples of Christ. I then became Reformed and his experience in the Reformed church was nothing like what I found! I found Faith and Grace alone and nothing about works or pride. Being in the Reformed church is what God used for me to grow into the Lutheran teachings. I found the Reformed were so positive of Luther and his teachings even when they disagree, but at times Lutherans are very harsh and insulting towards the Reformed which really bothers me. I believe I can be Lutheran and still love my Reformed brothers and sisters.
About 10 years ago, I was in Austin at a "Soccer Fun Day" event for some Lutheran Churches, and I was chatting about this stuff with a vicar who was there. He remarked, "Yeah, Reformed Theology sure blunts the power of the Gospel, doesn't it." I think he's right, that's exactly what Reformed Theology does.
That's my church. The definition of a TRUE Christian church is l: Salvation is by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in the FINISHED work of Jesus Christ.
I was in very similar situation but from a Pentecostal background. I deconstructed my apologetics and got a better understanding of apologetics, and then the Lord challenged me A LOT in my theology.
I'm presently at @21:58, as someone raised in a sort of revivalist adjacent non-demon church, discovering the doctrine of election within the reformed tradition literally is what saved me from continually doubting my salvation (I responded to altar calls at least 12 times growing up). It doesn't resonate with me where Pastor Chad talks about the treadmill of works etc, to me, a lot of the issues he is blaming on reformed theology is more of a baptist issue than a Presbyterian (I'm presently a member of a PCA church).
Every church service we have our confession of sin and assurance of pardon. I do wish we actually practiced confession and absolution like the Lutherans do, because the way we do it does feel insufficient. We have a public scripted admission of sin, a moment to confess our sins privately (but not out loud), and an assurance of pardon that were literally the words of scripture -- although I do think they stretch the verses that could be used. I do find myself continually craving this/wishing my church did this.
I am very tempted to be Lutheran, heck, I'm listening to Bryan Wolfmueller via Rev Fisk, I presently am on board with the Sacramental Union view, but I have a real difficulty with 2cv violations and genuflection to a graven image of Jesus. I'm sort of softening to the last point, but it still bothers my conscience.
I had attended an ELS church back in college (but I wasn't permitted to take the Supper), but they didn't have any crucifixes etc, the last time I visited a LCMS church about a year ago the procession and the genuflection to an image of Jesus really felt like idolatry to me.
I love so much about what I hear with Lutheranism, but that's probably my biggest barrier to entry right now.
I agree with you . I came out of the non denominational baptist world and now a member of my local OPC and find great comfort each week in the means of grace . I adore my Lutheran brothers and sisters as well and have been blessed by them .
I just started hearing about Celebration of Life 10 years ago. I thought the main difference was there was a slide show instead of the coffin. I hated seeing my Grandma in an open casket 20 plus years ago. It wasn't her; her soul was in heaven. I know her body will be raised again, but her personality, love, etc. was in the presence of Jesus. I don't see that as bad. We grieve not as the world grieves. We grieve because we miss that person, but we have the hope of the resurrection.
Statistically Lutherans live longer I think its because we are not stressed out about salvation. Christ did one hundred percent!
My mother had a deep and quiet faith. Every now and then she would say, "The Gospel gives me joy." 2 weeks before she died at 102 yrs she said several times, "I'm going to see Jesus." She and my father brought the seven of us to Christ in Baptism as infants and sent us to LCMS Lutheran school. My faith as a Lutheran is my comfort and joy.
More of this please! Amazing video love the prospective from where you guys both come from (baptust) non dominational/ reformed.
Very good show guys!
I remember the day it dawned on me that Paul Washer is an ironic Charles Finney.
He correctly preaches hard against Finneys Altar Call, but what he offers instead is the exact same solution, just that instead of calling you to the altar, he tells the unsaved/unsure to (im paraphrasing here) «..go home, lock yourself in your bedroom and pray until God does a supernatural work in you..»
And when I realized this, I despaired, because what was better with this «sacrament» over the other?
Thanks be to God he sendt me a Confessional Lutheran minister just in time.
It is pretty hard to hold the doctrine of Irresistible Grace without accepting that Jesus wants to save you. :)
Great discussion! I absolutely loved what was said about Lordship Salvation. Has anything been as destructive in the past 50 years? The only thing I would suggest is the way we are using the word “Reformed”. The main proponents of LS were men like John MacArthur and Paul Washer, neither of whom are confessionally reformed. It would be better to call them Calvinistic. The confessionally reformed would generally reject Lordship salvation
Correct. Particular Baptists that hold to the 1689 2nd London Confession of Faith are technically Reformed Baptists. Non confessional dispensational Calvinistic Baptists are just Calvinistic Baptists
So sad to see that on The Table's web site there is no indication that it is associated with the LCMS. If the video on the site is of an actual Divine Service, what has any of it got to do with historical liturgical practice? I suppose the response will be that they don't want to "scare" anyone off. Phooey!
If you are talking about LCMS, then you must believe the pastor is how you come into contact with God's grace, the pastor holds the keys to heaven and your salvation is through your pastor.
I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. Salvation comes from Jesus Christ.
Great video :)
What is this correspondence between Calvin and Luther? There was correspondence between Calvin and Melanchthon, who were friends. It is always important, speaking as a former Reformed Baptist and a former Calvinist, to bear in mind that Reformed Baptists really aren't Calvinists. At most they have Calvinistic elements in their soteriology.
Good catch. It was Melanchthon.
Good observation. I’ve always found it strange how reformed/Calvinistic baptists proudly call themselves Calvinists, and Calvin affirmed infant baptism. Granted, I know they are taking the soteriology from the rest of Calvin’s theology, but still.
Calvin reached out to Luther many times but Luther never replied to or met Calvin. Of course Calvin and Philipp Melanchthon hung out. Phillip actually would bare his soul to Calvin and cry on his chest while John held him. Calvin wanted the Reformation united. Phillip made a change to the Augsburg Confession concerning the Lord's Supper. Calvin signed it. It was called the Variata. Lutherans ultimately rejected the Variata. All this history is in the Historical Introductions to the Book of Concord by Bente.
In my experience repentance equaled "Turn or Burn." "You are firgiven but we are going to watch you. You are on probation." Make sure your Bible translation starts with a K and end with a V. Make sure your hair is a certain length and make sure your dress code meets a certain standard,
That's where I am right now. I would love to get back to my Lutheran roots!
What’s sad is that confessional Lutheranism, like that of the Missouri synod, is so unknown!
The liberal ELCA is about all that many Christians know of the Lutheran faith.
I came out of the Seventh Day Adventist church, finally found my way to the LCMS. In my men’s group we have former Catholics, a former Church of Christ along with me. All of us had the experience of ‘Lutheran? What’s that?!’
So many Christians (and non believers) would be interested if we were more visible; if we spoke or wrote more simply and clearly what we believe!
The 4 spiritual laws booklet was popular in the 80s and I think it or a similar booklet had a picture of Jesus in a heart but not on the throne, so you were saved but Jesus wasn't Lord. I wondered as a teen, how can I be saved if He isn't Lord? I believed once saved always saved, so I wasn't worried about losing my salvation like my Penecostal/Assembly of God friends, but something seemed very off to me.
It appears that Mr. Bresson forgot to finish all of Acts 22:16 as he was quoting it 59:02 . Here is the whole verse "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name." [ESV] or
"What are you waiting for? Get up and be baptized. Have your sins washed away by calling on the name of the Lord."
[NLT]. I would argue that the whole passage clearly shows salvation through "calling on his name". I don't disagree that salvation is God's work and nothing of our own.
Not gonna lie I’m pretty confused here 23:08 😅
I was raised and saved out of a hyper charismatic,WOF church bout 3 years ago. I’ve spent the last few years listening to many reformed Baptists, a few Presbyterians and a few Lutherans. Everything you’ve talked on in the last 20 minutes sounds a lot more like what I learned in the WOF/non dom church and been stronghold opposed by the reformed guys I listen to. Idk I could be missing something but I feel like you misrepresented the reformed position. Like I said though I’m still young both in years and in the faith so if I’m missing something I apologize! Thank you pastor Brian for your channel i love what you do!
24:22 yea specifically this point! This is very WOF I haven’t heard this in the reformed world
For example I’m going through Romans with Steve Lawson and he just taught on this
Always unfortunate when "Calvinist baptist" is equated with "Reformed". Also odd to hear around the 8:50 mark the idea that there isn't absolution and assurance of pardon-this is sort of foreign to Reformed theology. Proper Reformed liturgy includes both. Another reason why Calvinist Baptists shouldn't be the example for Reformed faith, practice and piety. Interesting discussion, nonetheless.
I have a friend that just HATES infant Baptism. She belongs to evangelical churches. She has often asked me about my conversion moment. She does not understand being a cradle Christian that was Baptized as a baby. She grew up Catholic and is not very anti-Catholic. She also thinks The Lord's Supper is just a memorial feast. She also talks about making a decision to believe
Consider Andrew Das' book on baptism then. Written after many conversations with his girlfriend at the time who was staunch against Baptismal regeneration and infant Baptism. But she was Biblical, so Das argues only from Scripture. And nails it.
@@robertmayes640I can't find an author named Andrew Das.
Tell her to search Scott Hahn, Shane Page, Steve Ray, Keith Nester and many more Protestant preachers who were once anti Catholic but converted to One True Catholic Church because of truth.
How about the ECLA?
It has gone very far left and very little to do with Lutheranism. The LCMS is the real deal.
I left the ELCA! Don't go near them!
As a Baptist (almost) i am not on the performance wheel...i thought imputation is taught in Baptist circles...
It’s taught, but in soooo many churches it is counseled differently. I’ve had this very conversation with many friends across the country. The gospel is preached but the prosperity gospel is what is counseled. Even at MacArthurs church.
Actually Westminster, read carefully, does say baptism normally saves.
And no real Calvinist is a decisionist. When we became Calvinist our Baptist relatives clearly realized we'd left the reservation. That was much more shocking for them than when moved from Presbyterian to Lutheran.
You are absolutely right concerning the Westminster and baptism, and it really irked me that, during my time in Calvinism, Calvinsts either 1.) did not actually know what Calvinism historically taught regarding the sacraments or 2.) did not care about it.
100%
I want to know if anyone knows of a confessional Lutheran church in Kansas? Close to Kansas City
Mount of olives lutheran church in overland park
Mount of olive lutheran church in overland park
Were you Reformed or Baptist? I don’t recognize many of your comments having attended a conservative confessional Presbyterian. For example, Lordship Salvation is NOT a teaching of the Presbyterian Church. That said, I am intrigued by much I’m hearing from my Lutheran brothers, particularly the group in the White Horse Inn and Issues Etc. Perhaps I’m a Luthertarian? I was once told that Presbyterianism is the gateway drug to Lutheranism. Perhaps that will be me.
He was a reformed Baptist or more accurately a calvinistic Baptist. I was PCA Presbyterian and now an LCMS Lutheran! Did you make the jump over here?
WSC Q1 comment is huge 😢
Your definition of grief is extremely close to the psychological definition of grief Pastor Wolfmueller. Maybe even a better working definition, one that is easier to actually use
So, I am on the opposite side.i have been a lutheran, my entire life. I am so disappointed in our Synod and the stance they have taken on the articles they have allowed in the large catechism. I feel like they are becoming a flimsy Reed in regards to many social issues. I am thinking of leaving the lutheran church. I absolutely love my faith and my beliefs, but I am not sure I can any longer support our Synod. I am certainly struggling.
Almost every tradition has this same type of issue. Fortunately there are several confessional conservative LCMS churches in my area. If your pastor and church haven't gone woke then just sit tight.
🙏
I wish you had actually gone to the seminary instead of using the pastor-lite route.
Presbyterians and Baptist consider themselves as one thing with the freedom to have different approaches to baptism and holy supper. This is not the case with us, lutherans. For us, it is not at all a difference of opinion, but the essence of ours ''extra nos'' theology, assurance of salvation, grace not deeds. For the Presbyterians now, the few, very few among them, who take the sacraments as ''something serious, beyond my understanding'', the difference with us, lutherans, is the ''here and now''. They can not accept it. No, for them, it is ''there and without the importance lutherans give to it''. Maybe we have to start using again the word ''heretic'' in order to give emphasis to the fact we do not at all say and believe the same thing and that these things matter, they are not of secondary importance, insignificant, matter of opinion, democracy of ideas etc.
Maybe infant baptism isn’t an “exegetical question” because there’s actually nothing in the NT to exegete it from.
When entire households are baptized, you are risking the assumption that no children are actually in that entire household.
@@dave1370 Thanks for the reply. I would never say a child shouldn’t be baptized, I’m speaking of “infant” baptism. There are passages in the NT which speak of households being baptized. Praise God. But I think given the established pattern in Acts (believe then be baptized) I don’t know why we would assume that there were infants baptized. Even some of the “household” passages explicitly say it. In Acts 18:8, one of the household passages, Crispus and his household are baptized, and the text says that the entire household believed.
You guys are not talking about Reformed but sounds more like Arminian theology! I don't know what churches you went to but Reformed theology is not what you are speaking about!
What do you doing you don’t totally trust you pastor ?
"Fruit inspection," as you call it, is not "works based salvation." Fruit inspection is an important way for you to make sure that you are grafted into the correct tree. For, as the Bible says, you shall know them by their fruits. No, we are not saved by our fruit, by our acts, but our fruits, our acts are an indication if we are sincerely living for Christ or if we are simply giving God lip service. Therefore, if you are serious about living for Christ a "fruit inspection" is a productive way to ensure the health of your grafting. For if you are not producing fruit of the tree then you are NOT of the tree, for every branch of the tree produces fruit. Thus, how can you benefit of the nourishment, the water of the tree if you are not actually connected to the tree.
Do you know who I am? I am an alarm clock. Do you know?
As a Reformed Baptist pastor I can assure you that we preach justification by faith alone in Christ alone. Full stop. Additionally, we preach that "They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified, really and personally, through *the same virtue*, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them ..."
@@davidacharles1962 Reformed teach the error of “once saved always saved” (aka preservation of the saints).
You almost got hooked up with James White.