Glad you are breathing new life into these classics! The outboard conversations you have done give a lot of storage where the old motor and tanks came from and a more modern engine is so much more reliable than a 30-40 year old inboard. Now a 8 hp diesel outboard......
I always enjoy your updates and the subjects covered. I especially like how you will start at the beginning of the project and instead of doing instalments over a protracted time - you cover the project from beginning to end. To me it has much more impact and enjoyment.
I just wanted to say thank you so much for making these videos. I know it's not easy to do and it's time consuming, but I really enjoy them. I can't wait to see the finished product and I love getting ideas for my own boat.
Thanks for posting, I'm doing this job right now on my Bristol 27. Also using a Nissan 9.8 extra long shaft motor. Boat was built with a well so I'm adding the tilt up option.
I'd be interested to hear how that turns out and if you had enough space between transom and rudderhead fitting for this size motor and space to pivot the motor for side thrust. Maybe you could post photos and comments about the job on the Plastic Classic Forum. I'm a moderator on it and will answer any questions there: plasticclassicforum.com/forum/
I really appreciate this type of video, not just for the ingenuity and quality work, but as it shows a project from its beginning all the way to the end for the viewer to see in one sitting. +1 Cool after all of these years, you have remained loyal to Carl Alberg designs. We had an Ensign and an Ariel in our family back in the 70's. Curious to hear your opinion on the boat size limit for the stern lazarrette outboard conversion. I wonder if there is a conversion available to make an XXL shaft ob.? Would be nice to be able to do this to an Alberg 35...though cavitation would likely be an issue.
The 25" shaft on this motor is almost as deep as the original prop. It is further aft though so will suck air sooner. But in moderate waves the prop doesn't suck air at all. A longer shaft, if one were available would interfere with the windvane self-steering and isn't needed on this boat. Years ago I did construct a non-tilting, or fixed, outboard well on an Alberg 35 but the motor was only a 20" long shaft and it did suck air too easily in choppy waters. Although the A35 lazarette has more overhang and height above water than the A30, it should be possible to design a suitable tilt-up well for it as well.
I know this is an old video but, I have a couple of questions/thoughts I would like to pass by you. I was thinking about buying this very same model of boat however, I have 2 - 8.0hp Nissan outboards with the standard 15" shaft. What do you think about the following modifications: 1) Where the aft dorade vents were, modify the hull to accept a 2 verticle fiberglass tubes (using cement forms as molds) and punching through the hull there (e.g. place the motors where you have the gas cans). 2) Mount the motors to be retracted vertically into a new lazarette box with sufficient room to cover the vertically retracted motors. 3) mount a 30 gal. fuel bladder in the center where you currently have the 9.8 hp motor. I would make the motor a fixed mount so you would use the rudder and differential prop speed to steer (as well as making it easier to maneuver for docking by allowing 1 motor to go into reverse to swing the bow). I am considering this idea so I could use the 8.0hp motors in a future tender and interchange the motor usage to equalize motor hours. Any thoughts or gotcha's you might want to share that would make this modification problematical or unwise? Thanks for taking any time to consider... Regards.
I expect you'll run out of space in the lazarette as well as the props will be too close to the waterline and will suck air. There would also be problems keeping the motors at a reasonable height when hoisted vertically with a way to easily close the holes to reduce flooding in a rough sea or anytime when heeled. It seems much better all round to sell your two motors and buy one with at least 20" long shaft, preferably 25" extra long and stick with a centerline mount.
I made the patterns by trimming cardboard in place and filling gaps with masking tape. It takes time and error though so for those that want a shortcut I sell full-size paper patterns of all panels with dimensioned sketches for $75 by contacting me through atomvoyages.com
You are an artist. I am re working a Downeast 32 with a wineglass stern. Considering modifying to have safe access to a swim platform/ocean. Perhaps a removable pilot seat to access steps down. Concerned about structural integrity, loss of. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks
I don't have experience with the Downeast 32 but in general an experienced shipwright can modify the afterdeck and transom using their judgement on how to replace the strength of the modified structure knowing the loads involved. Keep in mind that any significant modification could hurt the resale value. It might be acceptable instead to build a fold-down swim platform no larger than needed and add a folding step to access it.
Awesome engineering! Love the simple solutions. Durable and completely functional. Managing 4 fuel cans might be a pain. Did you consider fabricating some tanks to make better use of the space? Or did you want it to be portable for refueling?
It might be possible to build an integral gas tank on each side to maximize capacity but it would be too complicated and remove access to deck fasteners and cause other issues. There might be other options but the way it is works well - easy to remove and carry four 3.2 gal tanks to refill and when motoring long distance you only need to switch the fuel line from the empty tank to the next full one. You don't even need to stop the motor.
Good point! Not so hard to monitor the levels and with the small tanks it makes it super easy to refill them. I would imagine with the 9.9hp each tank would lasts about 4-5 hours of run time which, at 5 kts gets a respectable range. Say almost 100 miles on full fill? But again. It is a sail boat after all. Again your solution is clear and simple. Well done! Thanks for the vids!
Thanks. And as you'll see in upcoming videos of this boat, since we removed the inboard engine we were able to make the port and stbd cockpit lockers watertight as well. This means you can safely store more fuel cans if you had the need to refill the tanks underway.
Very nice work. Had a C27 with two 5 gallon saddle tanks in the factory outboard well. In the end I never removed the tanks from the well, just used a shaker siphon hose to refill them when empty. Much easier than man handling full tank down into a well and never had to worry about pouring from a jerry can.
Do you have any problem with the engine not getting enough air when the hatch is closed. i am looking at a Bendford dory which has a well designed for a 9,9 but the builder said it would stall out as not enough air could get into the well. He ended up installing an electric outboard.
There is no problem with the carburetor getting enough clean air on this installation even with top hatch closed because the hull and transom cutouts are fairly large. If your boat has a non-tilting outboard well with smaller hole in the hull and no transom slot then it could possibly be an issue. But in practice you could always crack open the hatch a few inches to give it the air it needs. In any case I recommend opening the hatch on my boats for a few minutes every half hour or so in hot weather to ensure the motor doesn't suffer excess wear from getting hot. I don't know if that would actually happen but we do it just to make sure.
There are several pros and cons of a properly designed tilt-up outboard well vs inboard diesel as described in the following article: atomvoyages.com/articles/the-improved-outboard-well/ Here's an article describing the modification for an Alberg 30 step by step: atomvoyages.com/adding-a-tilt-up-9-8-hp-outboard-well-to-an-alberg-30/
Curious about thoughts on possible need for close fit splash shields with engine in running position when it is rather rough The fact that you have not fitted them may tell the whole story but any observations would be appreciated. Great instructional, and informative video, THANKS !!
We want some air flow around the motor when running for ventilation and cooling. Outboards do pretty well getting splashed with water on transom mounts anyway and this is more protected. But then these are real sailing boats not intended to motor in as bad conditions as an inboard diesel is capable of.
Awesome..great idea,may i ask?is it possible to make a well for 15hp outboard on a 1966 CAL30 i want to change from diesel, can you please give me direction/advice thank you verymuch
I haven't measured the lazarette and cockpit of a Cal 30 so can't say for sure. It may be possible but I think you'll find the 15hp motor is too big to fit and still tilt up. I would not build a non-tilt version. If you read the two articles linked in the description you'll understand that 9.8 hp provides enough thrust for a 30' boat, assuming you use the sails in the rare times of too much wind and waves for it to handle.
Yes, patterns are available. Cost is listed in the Materials section near the bottom of the linked page: atomvoyages.com/adding-a-tilt-up-9-8-hp-outboard-well-to-an-alberg-30/
Thanks. The motor controls are easily reached from the tiller and because you can rotate the motor for side thrust it has much improved maneuverability over an inboard engine. Reverse thrust is adequate on the 9.8 but probably less than an inboard and is very limited on a 6hp if there is any current.
@@nicolamuscella2388 It depends on how much performance you demand. Most people would consider a 6hp is underpowered for this size boat but it is ample for those who have the patience and sailing skills. I've fit 6hp motors to several Alberg 30s and smaller boats. Here's a link to a passage with an A30 using a 6. th-cam.com/video/Pa7k8LJRk1s/w-d-xo.html
Maybe slightly easier, maybe not if all new tank, plumbing, instruments, wiring, prop, shaft, coupling, stern tube, etc were added, but this conversion was done because the owner prefers an outboard that tilts up within a well over a diesel for several mostly obvious reasons. Of course, I realize that most sailors prefer a diesel, just not everybody.
I've installed several outboard wells in Alberg 30s over the years. This 9.8 is the latest one. I have other videos on this channel of earlier boats using the 6hp.
On many boats you have no choice and have to install a transom bracket. But the disadvantages are that it is awkward to reach the shifter, throttle, and to turn it it to maneuver, it's exposed and ugly, is more prone to getting the motor head dunked or the prop sucking air in choppy water, the weight is too far aft, if you have a centerline windvane then the motor needs to be on the corner of the transom, further degrading performance when the boat rolls or when it heels during motorsailing, to name a few.
That would be for inboard EP. I've been looking at this one for a future project: www.amazon.com/Caroute-N400-48V-Brushless-Electric-Saltwater/dp/B01EZTR6VM/ref=lp_15273121011_1_6
Glad you are breathing new life into these classics! The outboard conversations you have done give a lot of storage where the old motor and tanks came from and a more modern engine is so much more reliable than a 30-40 year old inboard. Now a 8 hp diesel outboard......
I always enjoy your updates and the subjects covered. I especially like how you will start at the beginning of the project and instead of doing instalments over a protracted time - you cover the project from beginning to end. To me it has much more impact and enjoyment.
I just wanted to say thank you so much for making these videos. I know it's not easy to do and it's time consuming, but I really enjoy them. I can't wait to see the finished product and I love getting ideas for my own boat.
Absolutely brilliant. Love all your work, please keep the videos coming.
Must be a very satisfying job working on this beautiful boats?
Thanks for posting, I'm doing this job right now on my Bristol 27. Also using a Nissan 9.8 extra long shaft motor. Boat was built with a well so I'm adding the tilt up option.
I'd be interested to hear how that turns out and if you had enough space between transom and rudderhead fitting for this size motor and space to pivot the motor for side thrust. Maybe you could post photos and comments about the job on the Plastic Classic Forum. I'm a moderator on it and will answer any questions there:
plasticclassicforum.com/forum/
It turned out very nice, like the way you made those cover boards.
I really appreciate this type of video, not just for the ingenuity and quality work, but as it shows a project from its beginning all the way to the end for the viewer to see in one sitting. +1
Cool after all of these years, you have remained loyal to Carl Alberg designs. We had an Ensign and an Ariel in our family back in the 70's.
Curious to hear your opinion on the boat size limit for the stern lazarrette outboard conversion. I wonder if there is a conversion available to make an XXL shaft ob.? Would be nice to be able to do this to an Alberg 35...though cavitation would likely be an issue.
The 25" shaft on this motor is almost as deep as the original prop. It is further aft though so will suck air sooner. But in moderate waves the prop doesn't suck air at all. A longer shaft, if one were available would interfere with the windvane self-steering and isn't needed on this boat. Years ago I did construct a non-tilting, or fixed, outboard well on an Alberg 35 but the motor was only a 20" long shaft and it did suck air too easily in choppy waters. Although the A35 lazarette has more overhang and height above water than the A30, it should be possible to design a suitable tilt-up well for it as well.
Absolutely inspired! Well done, awesome craftsmanship. Thank you so much for sharing this with us.
Thank you. Excellent informative video for an alternative an inboard.
I know this is an old video but, I have a couple of questions/thoughts I would like to pass by you. I was thinking about buying this very same model of boat however, I have 2 - 8.0hp Nissan outboards with the standard 15" shaft. What do you think about the following modifications: 1) Where the aft dorade vents were, modify the hull to accept a 2 verticle fiberglass tubes (using cement forms as molds) and punching through the hull there (e.g. place the motors where you have the gas cans). 2) Mount the motors to be retracted vertically into a new lazarette box with sufficient room to cover the vertically retracted motors. 3) mount a 30 gal. fuel bladder in the center where you currently have the 9.8 hp motor. I would make the motor a fixed mount so you would use the rudder and differential prop speed to steer (as well as making it easier to maneuver for docking by allowing 1 motor to go into reverse to swing the bow). I am considering this idea so I could use the 8.0hp motors in a future tender and interchange the motor usage to equalize motor hours. Any thoughts or gotcha's you might want to share that would make this modification problematical or unwise? Thanks for taking any time to consider... Regards.
I expect you'll run out of space in the lazarette as well as the props will be too close to the waterline and will suck air. There would also be problems keeping the motors at a reasonable height when hoisted vertically with a way to easily close the holes to reduce flooding in a rough sea or anytime when heeled. It seems much better all round to sell your two motors and buy one with at least 20" long shaft, preferably 25" extra long and stick with a centerline mount.
I like the outboard well , good idea
How do you draw the patterns for all those bulkheads/walls in all those difficult places, please?
I made the patterns by trimming cardboard in place and filling gaps with masking tape. It takes time and error though so for those that want a shortcut I sell full-size paper patterns of all panels with dimensioned sketches for $75 by contacting me through atomvoyages.com
You are an artist. I am re working a Downeast 32 with a wineglass stern. Considering modifying to have safe access to a swim platform/ocean. Perhaps a removable pilot seat to access steps down.
Concerned about structural integrity, loss of. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks
I don't have experience with the Downeast 32 but in general an experienced shipwright can modify the afterdeck and transom using their judgement on how to replace the strength of the modified structure knowing the loads involved. Keep in mind that any significant modification could hurt the resale value. It might be acceptable instead to build a fold-down swim platform no larger than needed and add a folding step to access it.
@@atomvoyager
Thank you for your response. Going to move forward with ladder and swim platform, our first design.
U deff got skilz. Nice work and finish
Awesome engineering! Love the simple solutions. Durable and completely functional. Managing 4 fuel cans might be a pain. Did you consider fabricating some tanks to make better use of the space? Or did you want it to be portable for refueling?
It might be possible to build an integral gas tank on each side to maximize capacity but it would be too complicated and remove access to deck fasteners and cause other issues. There might be other options but the way it is works well - easy to remove and carry four 3.2 gal tanks to refill and when motoring long distance you only need to switch the fuel line from the empty tank to the next full one. You don't even need to stop the motor.
Good point! Not so hard to monitor the levels and with the small tanks it makes it super easy to refill them. I would imagine with the 9.9hp each tank would lasts about 4-5 hours of run time which, at 5 kts gets a respectable range. Say almost 100 miles on full fill? But again. It is a sail boat after all.
Again your solution is clear and simple. Well done! Thanks for the vids!
Thanks. And as you'll see in upcoming videos of this boat, since we removed the inboard engine we were able to make the port and stbd cockpit lockers watertight as well. This means you can safely store more fuel cans if you had the need to refill the tanks underway.
Very nice work. Had a C27 with two 5 gallon saddle tanks in the factory outboard well. In the end I never removed the tanks from the well, just used a shaker siphon hose to refill them when empty. Much easier than man handling full tank down into a well and never had to worry about pouring from a jerry can.
Do you have any problem with the engine not getting enough air when the hatch is closed. i am looking at a Bendford dory which has a well designed for a 9,9 but the builder said it would stall out as not enough air could get into the well. He ended up installing an electric outboard.
There is no problem with the carburetor getting enough clean air on this installation even with top hatch closed because the hull and transom cutouts are fairly large. If your boat has a non-tilting outboard well with smaller hole in the hull and no transom slot then it could possibly be an issue. But in practice you could always crack open the hatch a few inches to give it the air it needs. In any case I recommend opening the hatch on my boats for a few minutes every half hour or so in hot weather to ensure the motor doesn't suffer excess wear from getting hot. I don't know if that would actually happen but we do it just to make sure.
Really nice work!
Very Interesting, what's the main benefit of this over a inboard engine. I get access etc, is it faster, cheaper, is it better for offshore etc
There are several pros and cons of a properly designed tilt-up outboard well vs inboard diesel as described in the following article: atomvoyages.com/articles/the-improved-outboard-well/
Here's an article describing the modification for an Alberg 30 step by step: atomvoyages.com/adding-a-tilt-up-9-8-hp-outboard-well-to-an-alberg-30/
@@atomvoyager brilliant, thanks
Curious about thoughts on possible need for close fit splash shields with engine in running position when it is rather rough The fact that you have not fitted them may tell the whole story but any observations would be appreciated. Great instructional, and informative video, THANKS !!
We want some air flow around the motor when running for ventilation and cooling. Outboards do pretty well getting splashed with water on transom mounts anyway and this is more protected. But then these are real sailing boats not intended to motor in as bad conditions as an inboard diesel is capable of.
Awesome..great idea,may i ask?is it possible to make a well for 15hp outboard on a 1966 CAL30 i want to change from diesel, can you please give me direction/advice thank you verymuch
I haven't measured the lazarette and cockpit of a Cal 30 so can't say for sure. It may be possible but I think you'll find the 15hp motor is too big to fit and still tilt up. I would not build a non-tilt version. If you read the two articles linked in the description you'll understand that 9.8 hp provides enough thrust for a 30' boat, assuming you use the sails in the rare times of too much wind and waves for it to handle.
@@atomvoyager thank you sir
Do you still have the patterns for the cutout and the bulkheads and gas can floors?
Yes, patterns are available. Cost is listed in the Materials section near the bottom of the linked page: atomvoyages.com/adding-a-tilt-up-9-8-hp-outboard-well-to-an-alberg-30/
Nice work!
nicely done
Congratulations, nice job. question: are you having difficulty performing maneuvers when mooring? Nicola, Italy
Thanks. The motor controls are easily reached from the tiller and because you can rotate the motor for side thrust it has much improved maneuverability over an inboard engine. Reverse thrust is adequate on the 9.8 but probably less than an inboard and is very limited on a 6hp if there is any current.
So a 6hp si too small for a sailboat of this size?? Thanks
@@nicolamuscella2388 It depends on how much performance you demand. Most people would consider a 6hp is underpowered for this size boat but it is ample for those who have the patience and sailing skills. I've fit 6hp motors to several Alberg 30s and smaller boats. Here's a link to a passage with an A30 using a 6.
th-cam.com/video/Pa7k8LJRk1s/w-d-xo.html
How long from start to finish to complete project?
80 to 90 hours
Awesome boat, did you ever consider using Yanmar outboard motor?
If you mean a diesel outboard then aside from their other problems they are way too big and heavy for this application.
@@atomvoyagerYanmar Diesel outboard engine D18 D27 D36 D40 OBMs only a few hours
I appreciate the work but wouldn't it have been easier to pop in a beta marine diesel?
Maybe slightly easier, maybe not if all new tank, plumbing, instruments, wiring, prop, shaft, coupling, stern tube, etc were added, but this conversion was done because the owner prefers an outboard that tilts up within a well over a diesel for several mostly obvious reasons. Of course, I realize that most sailors prefer a diesel, just not everybody.
did you have a 6 horse in there before? I thought you did this once already
I've installed several outboard wells in Alberg 30s over the years. This 9.8 is the latest one. I have other videos on this channel of earlier boats using the 6hp.
Cool. I like your videos. I wish I had time to tinker with boats like you
Tinker...??? More like Master Craftsmanship.
Excellente!!
why not just mount the outboard in the transom look at all the storage space you loosing doing it that way
On many boats you have no choice and have to install a transom bracket. But the disadvantages are that it is awkward to reach the shifter, throttle, and to turn it it to maneuver, it's exposed and ugly, is more prone to getting the motor head dunked or the prop sucking air in choppy water, the weight is too far aft, if you have a centerline windvane then the motor needs to be on the corner of the transom, further degrading performance when the boat rolls or when it heels during motorsailing, to name a few.
80 t0 90 hours a outboad on a bracket can be done in a few hours
check out Golden motor alibaba .com water cooled brush less motors 3 to 20 kilowatt
That would be for inboard EP. I've been looking at this one for a future project:
www.amazon.com/Caroute-N400-48V-Brushless-Electric-Saltwater/dp/B01EZTR6VM/ref=lp_15273121011_1_6