I started running 3 months ago (brand new no experience, no sports background either). I have been doing a ballpark of 5-7 hrs/week in zone 2 calculated via the MAF method. I went from running 17 min miles (or jogging very slowly per say) in zone 2 at 130-150bpm and am now down to 12 minute miles at the same heart rate and perceived effort. I’ve more recently added intervals, speed work, tempo runs etc in addition to my regular long runs. Training for a marathon currently. Bottom line, it absolutely has worked for me and was a great way in general to start running from zero.
Single most useful videos in the history of all low heart training videos. Lots of info shared, lots of tips to gain and even more questions answered. Thank you for putting this together.
It's imperative to integrate speed work with zone 2 training. Just running slowly, will teach your body (and brain) to get really good at running slowly.
This was my mistake in the past. Trying to get faster at the 2 mile I focused solely on endurance up to half marathon distance. And got no faster at 2 mile. Not making that mistake again
It’s great to know that Incan do my zone 2 training on a static bike. I find it much easier to be able to keep in this zone on the bike and I am able to do this at home.
I totally agree with the comments here , I'm 64 now , I don't use monitors , just how I feel , but I've used Bruce Tulloh s books for years , and as I'm building up my mileage again , there are no shortcuts. Also looking at the Arthur Lydiard system ? It works ! 👍
Some great answers in here James. Ultimately zone 2 running is really beneficial, but the big leaps in performance come when speedwork is done alongside zone 2. Many people seem to think it’s one or the other
I reckon the talk-test is better than using watch, if we wanna get the right heart rate number, we have to use chest strap. I’m running at zone 2 for over 80% of my weekly mileage, about 90%, and just 10% speed work, I dropped my HM from pace 4:30 down to pace 4:15, set a PB 1:29 HM by using zone 2 training, and I don’t have smart watch, all of my runnings are by feel. I also add 4-6 strides on my easy runs and 6km race pace on my long run!
Running form is the most important part, running tall posture, long neck, relax shoulders, driving arms back and forward, driving our hips and knees forward, so we can use our biggest glute muscle!
A training method that requires running almost 1 hour every day, which at reasonable pace is 60k per week, to see improvements after whopping 16 weeks of trainings sounds wildly ineffective.
I am not able to run slowly, feels awkward to me, then I prefer to walk fast (more in the hips). Jeff Galloway Method. Yet what I do and enjoy is run 1K (around 5:30 /km) and then walk for about 1 min (let heart rate go down) and then repeat. Occasionally throw in some 30 seconds sprints.
For ages on my Garmin, every run no matter how slow has been tempo Changed the zones the other day from % of max heart rate to % of heart rate reserve Now a comfortable slow jog is easy or aerobic, not tempo
My understanding, which could be massively flawed, about burning fat as opposed to carbs is that process for converting fat to energy takes longer to initiate while carbs are pretty much ready on demand. So, the slow easy runs it makes perfect sense for the body to be able to burn fat is it has the time to get that system running. If, though, you're running hard or the intensity keeps changing a lot then the easy to burn fuels are prioritized. Maybe I'm completely off base, here.
swim bike run only in zone 2 , no strength training, no LT, no interval 1 years later, i cant improve any speed , but i can run 100k trail race with a low heartrate so if you want to run fast , only zone2 is not working ,but for beginner ,it work so great .
Stephen Seiler has said around 6-7 hours a week is the crossover point where above that training primarily zone 2 is better. 3+ sessions per week with each session 45min+ is needed to improve aerobic capacity. Below that you won’t see much (if any) improvement.
Thanks for reviewing the many and various frustrations of starting with zone 2 training. After starting running again for a month, I decided to give this a try and was immediately skeptical, frustrated, and annoyed. Feeling like I’m not allowed to run, and that the only way to keep my HR down without walking is with an unnatural gait, have diminished my enthusiasm. I’m only 2 weeks in, so I don’t expect any gains yet, so I really need some honesty about the early stages, not a lot of “you’ve just got to” dogma from some guy running way faster than I could while going flat out. I hope to come back here in a few months to report on whether I’ve seen some progress.
yeah, running form is really important when doing zone 2 but it's hard to do that when you can't do a faster pace yet, I've gotten injured more doing zone 2. I'm consciously shifting my form now when I'm doing it to avoid re-injuring my it band, more mid foot/for foot.
regarding sarahs question. my target MAF HR are exactly the same: 137. in the start i had to walk sometimes to stay below the limit, and couldent run quicker then 17min/mile. i started running 4 months ago, and now i can do 12min/mile at same HR, so thats a wopping 5min/mile improvement in only 4 months. the improvement for sure starting to slow down, but ive so far been rather impressed with how well it works. my resting heartrate has also dropped significantly over those 4 months from almost 80 down to 56-57bpm. and btw regarding the MAF method. why do some people think thats only about zone 2 training? maf guy def says its importent to add in some speedwork after 3-6 months
To stay in Z2, regarding HR it seems clear and must be maintained in Z2 while running. What about acceleration within it? Is it better to keep it stable from start to finish, or after warming up, should we maximize the pace within the limits of Z2 and reduce it if it will exceed Z2? Please someone clarify this.
I did 1-2 years of zone 2 running and had started with tempo/threshold workouts the last 6 months. I ended up doing a lactate test at a lab. I was dead on target with my zone 2 but had trained at high zone 3 for my threshold runs. After a hard workout block with lots of speedwork, tempo and long runs my low zone 2 tempo is roughly 5:40-6:00 min / km but I'm still in zone 2 for my 4:50 min / km-pace even though the load is heavier for my body at that pace. My ego loves the speed that comes from the speedwork and I can enjoy low zone 2 running at 5:40-pace as I know that my legs have more to give. When I was slugging along and 5:40 felt hard, then that was way more rough. So I no longer praise "only" zone 2 running, but like the zone 2 + zone 3 + zone 4 mix, with running oriented strength training every week.
man that's nice to stay in zone 2 at 5min/km, I'm at 8min/km then got itbs, back to 10min/km, I'm hoping i can reach 7min/km in my zone 2 soon, cause it's very hard to keep a good form over 8min/km where injury is looming.
I’ve made some good progress since my comeback 10 weeks ago by Z2 running, 5-6 hrs per week. I’ve compared the various HR zone calculations and use a number that’s conversational pace, but interestingly a pace that at the end of the session doesn’t leave me craving sweet foods. In my simple mind, that means I’ve been burning mostly fat and kept plenty of glucose in reserve. Please comment!
Running with a low heart (I find) is very easy on a treadmill. Exclusive low heart rate though last year resulted in my resting heart rate increasing, I realized I need a mix of zones.
When it comes to low carb, it takes months to adapt to it. If you are a beginner/intermediate, it shouldn't have much effect, but when you are getting close to olympian speeds, you might need some carbs (though there is evidence that even this is not true). You can also use 5-10g carb loads every 30-60 minutes to get the stimulant effect of carbs.
Just running in zone 2 won’t get you anywhere. You need to get yourself on a proper plan that combines both low and high intensities with a proper weekly volume. You also need to evaluate your critical power every month and increase the load on a monthly basis; it’s called progressive overloading and it’s true for every sports out there including running.
I struggle in summer to keep my hear rate low - my HR will gradually drift up from 115 to 150 during an easy 5 mile run (I'm 63 years old). Does elevated heart rate that is due to heat have the same effect in strengthening your cardiovascular system as running faster in cooler temps? And if I'm mostly walking in summer to keep my heart rate low, will that impact my overall fitness?
I struggle in summer too. If I hydrate perfectly every day then my heart rate doesn’t drift too far. I just set the pace based on how I felt and ignored my HR and I still managed to get massive aerobic adaptations. It all pays off once the weather cools down. The only real risk is burning out if you’re getting your HR too high consistently. I had to incorporate walk breaks on some runs just to keep the effort level reasonable. I also joined the gym so I had access to a spin bike and treadmill for days where I didn’t feel like facing the heat.
I suspect that most recreational runners (of the type likely to watch TH-cam videos) aren't doing anything close to 6 hours of running per week. FFS, I have a 17 year old son who's a county standard runner (up to HM distance in 77 minutes) and he does nowhere near 6 hours a week! Numerous studies have shown that for time limited runners (that's most of us) then higher intensity training gives a better return in terms of VO2 & LT improvements, and hence increased pace. Not only that, shuffling along at little more than a brisk walk is terrible for running form. If you only have a couple of hours available then do most of it at tempo or even threshold pace, you'll get Waaaaaaay faster. All this Z2 training is for the pros, and other athletes that need to do very high volume at reduced injury risk. Remember, elite distance athletes will be doing well in excess of 100 miles per week, it's their job! There's no point in trying to apply elite marathon training techniques to a hobby jogger doing the occasional 10k or HM, you're wasting your time.
Correct. The problem with this channel is talking to a whole range of runners and it's a way for you to feel hopeless and sign up for his programs. There really isn't a need for several hundreds of videos talking about the same topics that have been reworded. At this point he's just recycling info and making that TH-cam $$$
MAF's formula is totally arbitrary. Maff himself said it that he used "180- age" because it happened to the numbers for the athletes he trained. If you're in your sixties MAF forumla says you Zone 2 hr is around 120 bpm. I suppose many of you are not in that ages yet so you really have no idea how impossible that hrpm is. May be it's a good suggestion to someone who wants to start running but for those who's been running like for a while, that's impossibly low. Some would like to say, well, may be you set your watch wrong. Whether it that's the case, it still does not change your real zone2 heart rate zone. If yours is really at 140, no matter what your watch says your zone 2 rate is still 140 bpm. You can only reset your watch's heart rate zones, how it reports your zone, but that does not change the fact that 140 is your zone 2 hr. From what I've seen most people including some pretty good athletes seem to have a Zone 2 heart rate zone from 130s to high 150s regardless of age. That's tell you how ridiculous MAF is. Besides, we all born different so some of us do have higher heart rate than other people do. What I found is one does need to learn to run slowly. At least it's not as tiring as running fast though if that makes you feel better. I think one should know what one is doing slow heart rate training for. If you have a 5k race coming up, may be it's not the right time to do slow heart rate training when as it usually take s while if not long while to see result. But if you're just running for health and basic conditioning, just want to complete the distance, then go ahead. One thing that does not seem to have come up is if there is a limit how fast you can run in zone 2. If you just keep running at zone 2, will there be a max pace that you can achieve? Also, will the zone 2 heart rate range change in time? Will it change from say 130-150 to 120-140 after years of training? Or does it stay the same year after year regardless of our training? Personally, I only use slow heart rate run as warm up, recovery run or when I feel like running long and slow that day. Other than that, especially if you're been running for a while, been doing good in your races, zone 2 training is pretty much a wast of time.
If i understand your first point correctly, you have realized that -- at least for those of us who are in our 60s -- MAF and Zone 2 are NOT the same thing. I believe that Maffetone has indicated that his formula isn't directly applicable to older runners, and he has prescribed some adjustments to the formula for older runners. As I recall, even those adjustments would yield a very low HR. The MAF principles have just never made sense to me, so I just ignore them and, for my easy days, try to stay within Zone 2 (based on my observed maximal HR). As for your questions, I have never read anywhere that Zone 2 heart rate zones change with fitness level. They are keyed to percentages of your maximum heart rate. Your maximum heart rate does not increase as fitness improves. In fact, maximum heart rate generally declines with age, though the rate of decline may be slowed by exercising. I also have not seen any indication that the percentages of maximum heart rate for Zone 2 increase as your fitness improves, so your Zone 2 heart rate zones should not change as your fitness improves, unless your maximum heart rate has declined, which usually happens pretty gradually. What you may experience is that the Zone 2 range feels easier as you get used to it, and that you can go faster and still be in Zone 2. That's fine. Zone 2 running should not feel hard, and if it feels easy and your Zone 2 paces are improving, that means you fitness is improving.
@@adamsloane1748 I suspected Maffetone never worked with athletes in their 50s or older, and likely it never occurred to him that the zone 2 heart rate zone fall somewhere from 130s to 150s for most if not all of us despite our age and level.
I kinda do about 2 or 3 weeks of long slow runs under 125bpm between about 20km and 30km per run, then a week of tempo runs at whatever feels comfortable of between 10km and 20km per run, then I go back to long slow under 125bpm again for a couple of weeks.. Seems to work for me and stops me burning out on too many long runs or getting injured on too much tempo. I also do a shed load of sit ups which i honestly think has helped as much as anything else, whenever I have a spare minute or two Ill do 30 to 50 sit ups up to 4 to 7 times a day depending how I feel
Garmin typically suggests me a daily base training at 137bpm for 60min. If I complete said training at an average steady pace of 144bpm (i.e. upper level within that target zone and still with a completion score of 97%; measured with a chest strap) I end up being 50min (i.e. 77%) in zone 1 (i.e. "warm up") and only 10min (!) in zone 2 (i.e. 23%). How am I supposed to get to 6h of zone 2 training total per week? Going slower will cut my zone 2 intensity further; going faster goes against the idea of "low heart rate" training ... For reference: max HR is 183bpm (adjusted automatically). Zones are set at default levels in % of max HR (i.e. 50-60% for zone 1, 60-70% for zone 2, etc.). RHR at 46 bpm.
As he stated in the video average hr is not a good way to measure... If you hr was 100 for 10 minutes and 180 for 10 minutes that doesn't count as zone 2. Also ignore speed just keep your hr in zone 2, it's simple
I've been running for months now, and instead of looking at my heart rate.I am running at a conversational pace (6:30-6:45 mins per km), but as I look at my watch it shows me that I am consistently running at 165-170 bpm. Should I continue running this pace or should I slow down. I can run continuesly with this pace for 8kms.
My advice is to completely IGNORE that HR and focus on the talk-test. Just jog at the slowest pace you can reasonably maintain and do that for as long as you can, testing if you can say a full sentence once every few minutes. If you can't do that then you're probably de-conditioned and need to start with walking. If you know you can maintain a bit of a jog/run, then just work up to 60 mins.
Specific training is missing here. Can a zone 2 swimmer run faster?. Obiusly yes. A "potato couch level" as my self, trying to peal off would run faster/comfortable if i had have a swim cardio base. After a while (a much more long time than we like) you have to do something else (we cant cut corners) If bottom line is "Begginners work too hard too early and got burned" thumb up!!. or many "runners work too hard too much time" thumb up!! But strengh / speed work have to be done too. You see the abs of 5000 m olimpic women runners and you notice that they do something else than zone 2.
Is there really a plus in zone two training vs zone three (endurance). I read it was merely diminishing injury risks and improving the quality of interval sessions. But in 30 yrs, I’ve only seldomly encountered injury and never noticed a huge difference while doing intense sessions (in fact I never felt or mesure any ). Unless I fell on a trail, running or riding a MTB. , but that is not the point.
Is it OK to run low zone 1? Running middle zone 2 is way too fast for me and a recepy for injuries. According to a vo2max lab test, 4'20/km is right in the middle of my zone and where they recommend I spend most of my time. But that is too hard on my body. I usually do my easy runs at 5'20/km. Am I wasting my time? Any thoughts?
When using treadmill, 1-2 gradient angle is a must, otherwise you'd weaken your legs, since months on treadmill is direct disadaptation. Also, I think first marathon is the door to understanding running as a lifestyle habit, not just banal goal of getting that marathon done.
That isn’t true. The study was done for mimicking wind resistance and it’s only effective to use the 1% incline if you’re going faster than 4:39min/km. I have done PLENTY of training on the treadmill and spent several months exclusively on it for my runs and there was no negative effect by not using the incline. It’s like saying swimming will cause dis adaptation because you’re taking away gravity. If you were ever truly worried about not using an incline then you can always strength train to maintain muscle strength.
0:28 that’s my issue, to run in Zone 2 I have to go about 13:00/mile. It feels completely pointless. I incorporate speed work, intervals, tempo, etc., and on long runs I go about 1:00-1:30 below goal pace and that seems to work well for me. Should I go back to trying to focus on Zone 2 on longer runs?
240 - age is a method to get started. It is somewhat better blindly throwing a dart in a board. After some months using 240-age, you can do a max heart rate test and progress to more advanced methods.
i think the maf method is better for most people. 180-your age, and then do some adjustment according to your fitness level. from that method ive got a target HR of 137, and its been working surprisingly well for me
To be faaaiiirrrr, the 180 formula wasnt developed out of thin air. Phil Mafetone crunched a lot of data from a lot of athletes over a long time before he noticed the 180- age +/- health factors.
worked perfectly for me. my improvement with the maf method since i started running start of june has been insane. down from 17min/mile to about 11.2min/mile after only 4 months' worth of training, and i still can't really believe how much I've been improving in such a short time. I was basically 50% slower back when i started compared to my current pace at the same HR
Out of necessity I have to cycle 6-7 hours a week for my work commute and have done for the last 15 years. In view of this I'd expect to have a half decent aerobic fitness baseline. And yet I am struggling to run a few minutes without my heart rate reaching 140bpm. Even adopting a run walk strategy of 3 min run/1 min walk I'm struggling. I am wondering if fatigue from the cycling is the issue. For some context, I am 45, not over weight and don't smoke. I recently returned to running following a 2 month lay off but have always had this issue with HR training regardless of how slow I try to run.
Running requires a lot more muscles to be involved and if you don’t run much, they don’t get strengthened. You end up working harder than you’d expect given your aerobic fitness. Also would depend on your HR while cycling. In my opinion, I’d want to see 6 hours of running in zone 2 each week, supplemented with any time spent on the bike, especially for new runners because they’ve not built up the strength required to utilize their aerobic base.
@@TheGetawayMan I was previously running 3/4 times a week but only fairly short distances. The cycling leaves me too tired to run further or more frequently. In the past I've managed to combine the two and run sub 40 10ks but that was a few years ago now. I'd rather do more running and less cycling but needs must.
Had the same issue, HR rising too fast too high, kept trying with lots of walking breaks, even after a year of regular zone 2 training I hardly improved. As a last resort I went to a sports physician for a performance diagnosis and it turned out my zone 2 is at 72-82% of my max HR instead of 60-70% and I wasted my time with my previous training... Since then zone 2 training feels more doable and fun, been training like this for 1/2 year and reduced my pace by a minute. Those online zone calculators may work for most people, but HR zones are actually very Individual.
Every youtuber is making video on kipchoge or cheptegei . i requested so many running content creators to make a video on my favourite athlete Jacob Kiplimo ( Half marathon WR ,15K WR , 2x Cross Country champion) can you make a video on his running form please ❤
Had to giggle when he spoke about unscientific approaches, but then talked about cross-training and that it all trains your heart, so you can do whatever you like (cycling, specifically). Zone 2 training is NOT about training the heart. It's about training the mitochondria first and foremost. So it DOES matter a lot which types of activities you choose in addition to running. Cycling isn't bad, but there are others, like crosstrainer or rucking, which have a bigger overlap with running.
Fair - Just relating the cross-training to what I know best having worked with tons of triathletes over the years. Cycling is the obvious choice in my mind, for that reason. Other methods as you suggest are just as, if not more valid... but ultimately it's the one that the athlete want to do for hours on end that'll be most effective! I'd have a hard time getting a lot of my runners or triathletes to get on the crosstrainer or load-up a rucksack for a yomp 🤣
Are you actually a runner?! When your heart rate spikes, it indicates that it works hard. Let me give you an analogy. When you first enter a gym, you start with say 20kg squat that you can barely achieve for 8x3 reps. However, next time, your body adapted to that weight. So if you stay there at 20kg, you will feel that you work less harder than last time. And eventually you won't progress if you still there always. To progress, you need to shock your body and increase the weight. And that is exactly the same with running. With running, you teach your nervous system and muscle fibres to teach it to run fast with tempo, intervals and fartlek. And run long distance for at least 1h. But even long distance pace needs to be improved every two weeks or so. Then you can actually run at a run pace in zone 2 heart rate. These athletes are all over TH-cam preaching zone 2, but their zone 2 is a running pace. You will never get to a zone 2 running pace if you play with a 20kg weight all your life.
Who else thought they had a speck of dirt on there screen , or was it just me!
3:07 I thik it's a dot on the wall
I tried cleaning it twice 😂
I started running 3 months ago (brand new no experience, no sports background either).
I have been doing a ballpark of 5-7 hrs/week in zone 2 calculated via the MAF method.
I went from running 17 min miles (or jogging very slowly per say) in zone 2 at 130-150bpm and am now down to 12 minute miles at the same heart rate and perceived effort.
I’ve more recently added intervals, speed work, tempo runs etc in addition to my regular long runs. Training for a marathon currently.
Bottom line, it absolutely has worked for me and was a great way in general to start running from zero.
Single most useful videos in the history of all low heart training videos. Lots of info shared, lots of tips to gain and even more questions answered. Thank you for putting this together.
It's imperative to integrate speed work with zone 2 training. Just running slowly, will teach your body (and brain) to get really good at running slowly.
I do strides with all my easy runs, that helps.
I do interval sprints every 1km for 2km zone 3 on top of my 8k zone 2 runs and its kept my pace and endurance up
This was my mistake in the past. Trying to get faster at the 2 mile I focused solely on endurance up to half marathon distance. And got no faster at 2 mile.
Not making that mistake again
Yeah, this happened to me when I started marathon training. Now I’m running a 12 minute mile. 🫤
@@MNP208 maybe ur zones were set too low?
It’s great to know that Incan do my zone 2 training on a static bike. I find it much easier to be able to keep in this zone on the bike and I am able to do this at home.
I’m just starting out with this and only used to three runs a week for about 2 hours and 30 mins. The bike will help me get more time in zone 2.
I totally agree with the comments here , I'm 64 now , I don't use monitors , just how I feel , but I've used Bruce Tulloh s books for years , and as I'm building up my mileage again , there are no shortcuts. Also looking at the Arthur Lydiard system ? It works ! 👍
Some great answers in here James. Ultimately zone 2 running is really beneficial, but the big leaps in performance come when speedwork is done alongside zone 2. Many people seem to think it’s one or the other
I reckon the talk-test is better than using watch, if we wanna get the right heart rate number, we have to use chest strap. I’m running at zone 2 for over 80% of my weekly mileage, about 90%, and just 10% speed work, I dropped my HM from pace 4:30 down to pace 4:15, set a PB 1:29 HM by using zone 2 training, and I don’t have smart watch, all of my runnings are by feel. I also add 4-6 strides on my easy runs and 6km race pace on my long run!
Running form is the most important part, running tall posture, long neck, relax shoulders, driving arms back and forward, driving our hips and knees forward, so we can use our biggest glute muscle!
A training method that requires running almost 1 hour every day, which at reasonable pace is 60k per week, to see improvements after whopping 16 weeks of trainings sounds wildly ineffective.
I am not able to run slowly, feels awkward to me, then I prefer to walk fast (more in the hips). Jeff Galloway Method. Yet what I do and enjoy is run 1K (around 5:30 /km) and then walk for about 1 min (let heart rate go down) and then repeat. Occasionally throw in some 30 seconds sprints.
For ages on my Garmin, every run no matter how slow has been tempo
Changed the zones the other day from % of max heart rate to % of heart rate reserve
Now a comfortable slow jog is easy or aerobic, not tempo
My understanding, which could be massively flawed, about burning fat as opposed to carbs is that process for converting fat to energy takes longer to initiate while carbs are pretty much ready on demand. So, the slow easy runs it makes perfect sense for the body to be able to burn fat is it has the time to get that system running. If, though, you're running hard or the intensity keeps changing a lot then the easy to burn fuels are prioritized. Maybe I'm completely off base, here.
swim bike run only in zone 2 , no strength training, no LT, no interval
1 years later, i cant improve any speed , but i can run 100k trail race with a low heartrate
so if you want to run fast , only zone2 is not working ,but for beginner ,it work so great .
This is the first time I heard that a ballpark volume at zone two is 6 hours. Missed that.
I’m guessing it’s all about marathon distance training these days. Much less hours/miles for shorter distance racers?
Stephen Seiler has said around 6-7 hours a week is the crossover point where above that training primarily zone 2 is better. 3+ sessions per week with each session 45min+ is needed to improve aerobic capacity. Below that you won’t see much (if any) improvement.
no. It all depends on how fast you want to run your target distance.
@@ian4iPad2 Z2 is applicable to marathon distance, and, in my view, a total and utter waste of time if all you do is the occasional 5k or 10K.
Thanks for reviewing the many and various frustrations of starting with zone 2 training. After starting running again for a month, I decided to give this a try and was immediately skeptical, frustrated, and annoyed. Feeling like I’m not allowed to run, and that the only way to keep my HR down without walking is with an unnatural gait, have diminished my enthusiasm. I’m only 2 weeks in, so I don’t expect any gains yet, so I really need some honesty about the early stages, not a lot of “you’ve just got to” dogma from some guy running way faster than I could while going flat out. I hope to come back here in a few months to report on whether I’ve seen some progress.
yeah, running form is really important when doing zone 2 but it's hard to do that when you can't do a faster pace yet, I've gotten injured more doing zone 2. I'm consciously shifting my form now when I'm doing it to avoid re-injuring my it band, more mid foot/for foot.
regarding sarahs question. my target MAF HR are exactly the same: 137. in the start i had to walk sometimes to stay below the limit, and couldent run quicker then 17min/mile. i started running 4 months ago, and now i can do 12min/mile at same HR, so thats a wopping 5min/mile improvement in only 4 months. the improvement for sure starting to slow down, but ive so far been rather impressed with how well it works. my resting heartrate has also dropped significantly over those 4 months from almost 80 down to 56-57bpm.
and btw regarding the MAF method. why do some people think thats only about zone 2 training? maf guy def says its importent to add in some speedwork after 3-6 months
To stay in Z2, regarding HR it seems clear and must be maintained in Z2 while running. What about acceleration within it? Is it better to keep it stable from start to finish, or after warming up, should we maximize the pace within the limits of Z2 and reduce it if it will exceed Z2? Please someone clarify this.
I did 1-2 years of zone 2 running and had started with tempo/threshold workouts the last 6 months. I ended up doing a lactate test at a lab. I was dead on target with my zone 2 but had trained at high zone 3 for my threshold runs.
After a hard workout block with lots of speedwork, tempo and long runs my low zone 2 tempo is roughly 5:40-6:00 min / km but I'm still in zone 2 for my 4:50 min / km-pace even though the load is heavier for my body at that pace.
My ego loves the speed that comes from the speedwork and I can enjoy low zone 2 running at 5:40-pace as I know that my legs have more to give. When I was slugging along and 5:40 felt hard, then that was way more rough.
So I no longer praise "only" zone 2 running, but like the zone 2 + zone 3 + zone 4 mix, with running oriented strength training every week.
man that's nice to stay in zone 2 at 5min/km, I'm at 8min/km then got itbs, back to 10min/km, I'm hoping i can reach 7min/km in my zone 2 soon, cause it's very hard to keep a good form over 8min/km where injury is looming.
I’ve made some good progress since my comeback 10 weeks ago by Z2 running, 5-6 hrs per week. I’ve compared the various HR zone calculations and use a number that’s conversational pace, but interestingly a pace that at the end of the session doesn’t leave me craving sweet foods. In my simple mind, that means I’ve been burning mostly fat and kept plenty of glucose in reserve. Please comment!
Running with a low heart (I find) is very easy on a treadmill. Exclusive low heart rate though last year resulted in my resting heart rate increasing, I realized I need a mix of zones.
When it comes to low carb, it takes months to adapt to it. If you are a beginner/intermediate, it shouldn't have much effect, but when you are getting close to olympian speeds, you might need some carbs (though there is evidence that even this is not true). You can also use 5-10g carb loads every 30-60 minutes to get the stimulant effect of carbs.
Just running in zone 2 won’t get you anywhere. You need to get yourself on a proper plan that combines both low and high intensities with a proper weekly volume. You also need to evaluate your critical power every month and increase the load on a monthly basis; it’s called progressive overloading and it’s true for every sports out there including running.
I struggle in summer to keep my hear rate low - my HR will gradually drift up from 115 to 150 during an easy 5 mile run (I'm 63 years old). Does elevated heart rate that is due to heat have the same effect in strengthening your cardiovascular system as running faster in cooler temps? And if I'm mostly walking in summer to keep my heart rate low, will that impact my overall fitness?
I struggle in summer too. If I hydrate perfectly every day then my heart rate doesn’t drift too far. I just set the pace based on how I felt and ignored my HR and I still managed to get massive aerobic adaptations. It all pays off once the weather cools down. The only real risk is burning out if you’re getting your HR too high consistently. I had to incorporate walk breaks on some runs just to keep the effort level reasonable. I also joined the gym so I had access to a spin bike and treadmill for days where I didn’t feel like facing the heat.
I suspect that most recreational runners (of the type likely to watch TH-cam videos) aren't doing anything close to 6 hours of running per week. FFS, I have a 17 year old son who's a county standard runner (up to HM distance in 77 minutes) and he does nowhere near 6 hours a week! Numerous studies have shown that for time limited runners (that's most of us) then higher intensity training gives a better return in terms of VO2 & LT improvements, and hence increased pace. Not only that, shuffling along at little more than a brisk walk is terrible for running form. If you only have a couple of hours available then do most of it at tempo or even threshold pace, you'll get Waaaaaaay faster. All this Z2 training is for the pros, and other athletes that need to do very high volume at reduced injury risk. Remember, elite distance athletes will be doing well in excess of 100 miles per week, it's their job! There's no point in trying to apply elite marathon training techniques to a hobby jogger doing the occasional 10k or HM, you're wasting your time.
Correct. The problem with this channel is talking to a whole range of runners and it's a way for you to feel hopeless and sign up for his programs. There really isn't a need for several hundreds of videos talking about the same topics that have been reworded. At this point he's just recycling info and making that TH-cam $$$
MAF's formula is totally arbitrary. Maff himself said it that he used "180- age" because it happened to the numbers for the athletes he trained. If you're in your sixties MAF forumla says you Zone 2 hr is around 120 bpm. I suppose many of you are not in that ages yet so you really have no idea how impossible that hrpm is. May be it's a good suggestion to someone who wants to start running but for those who's been running like for a while, that's impossibly low. Some would like to say, well, may be you set your watch wrong. Whether it that's the case, it still does not change your real zone2 heart rate zone. If yours is really at 140, no matter what your watch says your zone 2 rate is still 140 bpm. You can only reset your watch's heart rate zones, how it reports your zone, but that does not change the fact that 140 is your zone 2 hr. From what I've seen most people including some pretty good athletes seem to have a Zone 2 heart rate zone from 130s to high 150s regardless of age. That's tell you how ridiculous MAF is. Besides, we all born different so some of us do have higher heart rate than other people do.
What I found is one does need to learn to run slowly. At least it's not as tiring as running fast though if that makes you feel better.
I think one should know what one is doing slow heart rate training for. If you have a 5k race coming up, may be it's not the right time to do slow heart rate training when as it usually take s while if not long while to see result. But if you're just running for health and basic conditioning, just want to complete the distance, then go ahead.
One thing that does not seem to have come up is if there is a limit how fast you can run in zone 2. If you just keep running at zone 2, will there be a max pace that you can achieve?
Also, will the zone 2 heart rate range change in time? Will it change from say 130-150 to 120-140 after years of training? Or does it stay the same year after year regardless of our training?
Personally, I only use slow heart rate run as warm up, recovery run or when I feel like running long and slow that day. Other than that, especially if you're been running for a while, been doing good in your races, zone 2 training is pretty much a wast of time.
If i understand your first point correctly, you have realized that -- at least for those of us who are in our 60s -- MAF and Zone 2 are NOT the same thing. I believe that Maffetone has indicated that his formula isn't directly applicable to older runners, and he has prescribed some adjustments to the formula for older runners. As I recall, even those adjustments would yield a very low HR. The MAF principles have just never made sense to me, so I just ignore them and, for my easy days, try to stay within Zone 2 (based on my observed maximal HR). As for your questions, I have never read anywhere that Zone 2 heart rate zones change with fitness level. They are keyed to percentages of your maximum heart rate. Your maximum heart rate does not increase as fitness improves. In fact, maximum heart rate generally declines with age, though the rate of decline may be slowed by exercising. I also have not seen any indication that the percentages of maximum heart rate for Zone 2 increase as your fitness improves, so your Zone 2 heart rate zones should not change as your fitness improves, unless your maximum heart rate has declined, which usually happens pretty gradually. What you may experience is that the Zone 2 range feels easier as you get used to it, and that you can go faster and still be in Zone 2. That's fine. Zone 2 running should not feel hard, and if it feels easy and your Zone 2 paces are improving, that means you fitness is improving.
@@adamsloane1748 I suspected Maffetone never worked with athletes in their 50s or older, and likely it never occurred to him that the zone 2 heart rate zone fall somewhere from 130s to 150s for most if not all of us despite our age and level.
I kinda do about 2 or 3 weeks of long slow runs under 125bpm between about 20km and 30km per run, then a week of tempo runs at whatever feels comfortable of between 10km and 20km per run, then I go back to long slow under 125bpm again for a couple of weeks.. Seems to work for me and stops me burning out on too many long runs or getting injured on too much tempo. I also do a shed load of sit ups which i honestly think has helped as much as anything else, whenever I have a spare minute or two Ill do 30 to 50 sit ups up to 4 to 7 times a day depending how I feel
Good video
Can you talk about PRP treatment for achilles and coming off an injury such as a tendinopathy?
Garmin typically suggests me a daily base training at 137bpm for 60min. If I complete said training at an average steady pace of 144bpm (i.e. upper level within that target zone and still with a completion score of 97%; measured with a chest strap) I end up being 50min (i.e. 77%) in zone 1 (i.e. "warm up") and only 10min (!) in zone 2 (i.e. 23%).
How am I supposed to get to 6h of zone 2 training total per week? Going slower will cut my zone 2 intensity further; going faster goes against the idea of "low heart rate" training ...
For reference: max HR is 183bpm (adjusted automatically). Zones are set at default levels in % of max HR (i.e. 50-60% for zone 1, 60-70% for zone 2, etc.). RHR at 46 bpm.
As he stated in the video average hr is not a good way to measure... If you hr was 100 for 10 minutes and 180 for 10 minutes that doesn't count as zone 2.
Also ignore speed just keep your hr in zone 2, it's simple
I've been running for months now, and instead of looking at my heart rate.I am running at a conversational pace (6:30-6:45 mins per km), but as I look at my watch it shows me that I am consistently running at 165-170 bpm. Should I continue running this pace or should I slow down. I can run continuesly with this pace for 8kms.
My advice is to completely IGNORE that HR and focus on the talk-test. Just jog at the slowest pace you can reasonably maintain and do that for as long as you can, testing if you can say a full sentence once every few minutes. If you can't do that then you're probably de-conditioned and need to start with walking. If you know you can maintain a bit of a jog/run, then just work up to 60 mins.
Specific training is missing here. Can a zone 2 swimmer run faster?. Obiusly yes. A "potato couch level" as my self, trying to peal off would run faster/comfortable if i had have a swim cardio base. After a while (a much more long time than we like) you have to do something else (we cant cut corners)
If bottom line is "Begginners work too hard too early and got burned" thumb up!!.
or many "runners work too hard too much time" thumb up!!
But strengh / speed work have to be done too. You see the abs of 5000 m olimpic women runners and you notice that they do something else than zone 2.
Is there really a plus in zone two training vs zone three (endurance). I read it was merely diminishing injury risks and improving the quality of interval sessions. But in 30 yrs, I’ve only seldomly encountered injury and never noticed a huge difference while doing intense sessions (in fact I never felt or mesure any ).
Unless I fell on a trail, running or riding a MTB.
, but that is not the point.
Is it OK to run low zone 1? Running middle zone 2 is way too fast for me and a recepy for injuries. According to a vo2max lab test, 4'20/km is right in the middle of my zone and where they recommend I spend most of my time. But that is too hard on my body. I usually do my easy runs at 5'20/km. Am I wasting my time? Any thoughts?
When using treadmill, 1-2 gradient angle is a must, otherwise you'd weaken your legs, since months on treadmill is direct disadaptation.
Also, I think first marathon is the door to understanding running as a lifestyle habit, not just banal goal of getting that marathon done.
That isn’t true. The study was done for mimicking wind resistance and it’s only effective to use the 1% incline if you’re going faster than 4:39min/km. I have done PLENTY of training on the treadmill and spent several months exclusively on it for my runs and there was no negative effect by not using the incline. It’s like saying swimming will cause dis adaptation because you’re taking away gravity. If you were ever truly worried about not using an incline then you can always strength train to maintain muscle strength.
0:28 that’s my issue, to run in Zone 2 I have to go about 13:00/mile. It feels completely pointless. I incorporate speed work, intervals, tempo, etc., and on long runs I go about 1:00-1:30 below goal pace and that seems to work well for me. Should I go back to trying to focus on Zone 2 on longer runs?
240 - age is a method to get started. It is somewhat better blindly throwing a dart in a board. After some months using 240-age, you can do a max heart rate test and progress to more advanced methods.
i think the maf method is better for most people. 180-your age, and then do some adjustment according to your fitness level. from that method ive got a target HR of 137, and its been working surprisingly well for me
tempo training gives me injuries, is that normal ?
great video but could have done without the click bait image on the thumbnail
To be faaaiiirrrr, the 180 formula wasnt developed out of thin air. Phil Mafetone crunched a lot of data from a lot of athletes over a long time before he noticed the 180- age +/- health factors.
worked perfectly for me. my improvement with the maf method since i started running start of june has been insane. down from 17min/mile to about 11.2min/mile after only 4 months' worth of training, and i still can't really believe how much I've been improving in such a short time. I was basically 50% slower back when i started compared to my current pace at the same HR
Out of necessity I have to cycle 6-7 hours a week for my work commute and have done for the last 15 years. In view of this I'd expect to have a half decent aerobic fitness baseline. And yet I am struggling to run a few minutes without my heart rate reaching 140bpm. Even adopting a run walk strategy of 3 min run/1 min walk I'm struggling. I am wondering if fatigue from the cycling is the issue. For some context, I am 45, not over weight and don't smoke. I recently returned to running following a 2 month lay off but have always had this issue with HR training regardless of how slow I try to run.
Running requires a lot more muscles to be involved and if you don’t run much, they don’t get strengthened. You end up working harder than you’d expect given your aerobic fitness. Also would depend on your HR while cycling.
In my opinion, I’d want to see 6 hours of running in zone 2 each week, supplemented with any time spent on the bike, especially for new runners because they’ve not built up the strength required to utilize their aerobic base.
I have similar issues!
Among other things, it makes me wonder what precisely the definition of a "good aerobic base" is...
@@TheGetawayMan I was previously running 3/4 times a week but only fairly short distances. The cycling leaves me too tired to run further or more frequently. In the past I've managed to combine the two and run sub 40 10ks but that was a few years ago now. I'd rather do more running and less cycling but needs must.
Had the same issue, HR rising too fast too high, kept trying with lots of walking breaks, even after a year of regular zone 2 training I hardly improved. As a last resort I went to a sports physician for a performance diagnosis and it turned out my zone 2 is at 72-82% of my max HR instead of 60-70% and I wasted my time with my previous training... Since then zone 2 training feels more doable and fun, been training like this for 1/2 year and reduced my pace by a minute. Those online zone calculators may work for most people, but HR zones are actually very Individual.
Every youtuber is making video on kipchoge or cheptegei . i requested so many running content creators to make a video on my favourite athlete Jacob Kiplimo ( Half marathon WR ,15K WR , 2x Cross Country champion) can you make a video on his running form please ❤
Had to giggle when he spoke about unscientific approaches, but then talked about cross-training and that it all trains your heart, so you can do whatever you like (cycling, specifically). Zone 2 training is NOT about training the heart. It's about training the mitochondria first and foremost. So it DOES matter a lot which types of activities you choose in addition to running. Cycling isn't bad, but there are others, like crosstrainer or rucking, which have a bigger overlap with running.
Fair - Just relating the cross-training to what I know best having worked with tons of triathletes over the years. Cycling is the obvious choice in my mind, for that reason. Other methods as you suggest are just as, if not more valid... but ultimately it's the one that the athlete want to do for hours on end that'll be most effective! I'd have a hard time getting a lot of my runners or triathletes to get on the crosstrainer or load-up a rucksack for a yomp 🤣
Are you actually a runner?! When your heart rate spikes, it indicates that it works hard. Let me give you an analogy. When you first enter a gym, you start with say 20kg squat that you can barely achieve for 8x3 reps. However, next time, your body adapted to that weight. So if you stay there at 20kg, you will feel that you work less harder than last time. And eventually you won't progress if you still there always. To progress, you need to shock your body and increase the weight. And that is exactly the same with running. With running, you teach your nervous system and muscle fibres to teach it to run fast with tempo, intervals and fartlek. And run long distance for at least 1h. But even long distance pace needs to be improved every two weeks or so. Then you can actually run at a run pace in zone 2 heart rate. These athletes are all over TH-cam preaching zone 2, but their zone 2 is a running pace. You will never get to a zone 2 running pace if you play with a 20kg weight all your life.
Absolutely correct.