The bigger question is, what do Joe and Ron actually look like?! I've watched this channel for over a year and the most I've seen is a reflection in a backglass or the top.if Joe's head in a time lapse! You hehe as actually met them in person, so spill the beans!
Great video. Great looking overlay on this machine. 8 Ball Deluxe machine are notorious for chewed up playfields. Glad to hear there is a solution for these classic pins.
Ron and Joe you did a great job! I'm sure the customer will thrilled! As a side note I've wanted a machine for a while. Today I picked up a Bally Fun cruise! Thanks for the inspiration!
I've never seen that one before but it looks awesome. They were brave enough not to put flippers on it, 95% of people won't be brave enough to attempt to enjoy it :) I think it looks great, Ted Zale designed it too, one of the great geniuses of the pinball industry....
Nice job, as always! I agree with you Ron, LED's for the newer games that were designed for them. Humble old filaments for those that weren't. Is that strobing visible to the naked eye, or is it a camera effect?
Love your videos! Educational and entertaining! I've got a Centaur II that uses the same 'Rapid Fire' cabinet. Seems like some folks don't like that cabinet, but personally, I like the layout and it sure does stand out from the crowd. It's also got the original Panaplex displays and has the original Say-It-Again reverb board for speech... Still working great! Listening to your video, the Sqawk & Talk sound fx (especially on my Centaur) sounds a lot like Space Invaders to me.
Yeah I would definitely rather have the Centaur II over a regular Centaur. Pinball people often are very finicky, if anything is different they decide they don't like it.
Excellent work Ron. Be proud of this one. I'm proud for ya (and Joey). That wonderful machine is a great representation of what is possible when working to bring something back to life with what you have to work with. Props to the owner for doing what is possible to help you in this effort. It may not be 100% original, but it still looks great and actually works. Thank you again for all you do for us. Keep on rolling!!
You guys are ;like the "vice Grip Garage" of pinball machines. I don't even own a pinball machine but I'm ok with electronics and your videos make me feel confident in fixing things that go well beyond pinball. I mean, if you can fix those machines, you can fix pretty much anything. Also love your attitudes. I never leave comments, just wanted to let you guys know, you're awesome.
Moonshiners? Didn't I see your brother Donny on that? LOL... Oh, come on people, people, come on now...that was FUNNY! Great work as always. These pool games are always fun for some reason. Still trying to get a machine in the house...SWMBO just won't hear of it. :(
Very enjoyable series of videos Ronnie. Now that you’ve sorted this one out you’ll be in good form for your own one. … a game worthy of a great restoration for sure. Thanks for posting.
Great series Ronnie, Seems like that sound board is just tuff, just like my Xenon that you worked on. Great job in getting them working. Chalk up a win on this series Ronnie. See you on the next video Ronnie.
Nice thumbnail title! As the comedian* said: "Before I met my wife I was incomplete. Now I'm finished." *I don't remember which one. Okay, now I'm gonna go watch the video! 😂
@Ron - the reason why the LED's flicker, vs the incandescent bulbs, not flickering, is from the slow, thermal response of the filament in the bulbs, which take on the order of 100-300 ms to heat up to full brightness. LED's can light up MUCH faster, on the order of us, and are near instantaneously at full brightness. The matrix style lamp driving methods, with shared data busses, etc, may have small periods of time when the lamps may have been driven from this. With incandescents, the time constants are so slow, they don't light up, or only faintly light. One advantage is that it does keep the filaments pre-warmed, for less thermal shock, hopefully extending the bulb life. To fix this with LED's, add a capacitor across the LED in the actual replacement lamp, after the limiting resistor + rectifying diode (observing the polarity of the LED and cap if an electrolytic is used). 6.3V would be enough (Vf on an LED is less then a few volts). Probably on the order of 1-10 uF. Maybe a bit more, or less, depending on the frequency/duration of the pulses. A small series resistor after the cap, between the LED and cap would further filter this. Something around 100 ohms. Basically, make a low pass filter for the LED... This cap will intergrate the pulses, and control that weird flickering / pulsing!
Do you keep a list of bodges/repairs unique to the machine and the reasons why inside the machine.. like a repair log? Would like to imagine 100yrs someone else repairing one of your machine, and inside their head saying "C'mon people" - Love watching your videos.. always wanted to start collecting machines as a hobby.
You know what? I'd take any of those rapid fire cabinet games even though most people would take a traditional one. A refurbished Centaur ][ would look great in my house. Lol
How do the backbox leds look when the glass is in place? I might look at doing this to mine. Are they the strips for lighting the ball trough underneath the apron?
I don't care much for LEDs either, however from an electronic engineering standpoint I wonder if this LED flickering issue could be stopped by wiring a small cap across the legs to delay them coming on a bit
Some LEDs do not draw enough current to latch the SCR that drives it. The standard fix is to solder a resistor across the socket to slightly increase the current draw. They make LED compatible boards now and there are some 'Non Ghosting' type LEDs available that do not have a flickering problem. IMHO, there is minimal benefit to using LEDs in place of under-insert switched bulbs so I always leave them as incandescents and limit my LED usage for exposed GI lights.
Hey Joe, Joe here. Had a question. I'm in the middle of a full restoration on a 1975 Williams OXO and was wondering if you knew a place I could get plastics for it? I have the complete set (5 pieces) but they are yellowed and faded bad. Been looking everywhere and can't find anything.
Unfortunately I don't, I wish they made more of the titles like that one... you basically have to just find onesies on ebay when they pop up used. You can cut clear ones by hand, and then scan the artwork and print it on a clear decal to put on them but it's a lot of work!
@@LyonsArcade Yea thats what I think I'll have to do. I thought I saw at one time or another of a company that does reproduction plastics but I guess not.
Has anyone tried replacing the display board with a computer interface that would drive a LCD display that will show the player score and which ball is in play.
49:20 The ball still gets bumped up when rolling on the right side. Also, the left flipper looks to be more droopy than the right one (bit hard to see from this view).
There are more solenoids than the main board can control so they split the solenoids into two banks. The expander board relay flips the solenoid control bus back and forth between banks. That allows each solenoid transistor to operate 2 different coils.
This was early days of solenoid expander control. Soon, new board designs would have more solenoid drivers on them from the start, but when they started using a lot of flashers on the playfield, they needed expanders again. Flashers also were powered by solenoid voltage, so lamp drivers wouldn't do. You power a 12 volt bulb with 40 volts or so, but just for a split second, so it's a delight for the senses.
Of course I watched the whole thing. I love these videos, but if I made it into a drinking game every time the word Pop was used I would be too drunk to have heard Thumpa. @@LyonsArcade 😆
"Cattywampus" is an American slang term that means something is askew, in disarray, or not directly across from something. It originated in the Colonial United States and is still used in the deep South. It is a variant of "catawampus", another example of 19th century American slang.
Good job, however, the replay scores, mode, and sound setting are all stored in NMOS. (5101) without the battery you will loose all those settings when you power down. You need the battery backup or NVRAM alternative for the game settings to properly work.
You didn't watch the whole video but that's o.k. If you're going to go around giving people unsolicited criticism you should probably watch the whole video so you don't look foolish
I did watch the whole video, albeit not all at once. These are long. I made notes during the part when it was said you don't need a battery in these games. Yes you do! There is a part near the end where that was corrected? I must have missed that. Assuming most casual viewers will too.@@LyonsArcade
It works great! I play it every day. Joe and Ron are great.
They sure are, they always go the extra mile for a customer.
The bigger question is, what do Joe and Ron actually look like?! I've watched this channel for over a year and the most I've seen is a reflection in a backglass or the top.if Joe's head in a time lapse! You hehe as actually met them in person, so spill the beans!
@user-et3uc1ij5v I've been to the shop 3 times, spoke to Ron on the phone several times, but have never seen him in person. Met Joe, but not Ron.
Great video. Great looking overlay on this machine. 8 Ball Deluxe machine are notorious for chewed up playfields. Glad to hear there is a solution for these classic pins.
‘Quit talking and start chalking, ppl’ lol 🥂
Ron and Joe you did a great job! I'm sure the customer will thrilled! As a side note I've wanted a machine for a while. Today I picked up a Bally Fun cruise! Thanks for the inspiration!
I've never seen that one before but it looks awesome. They were brave enough not to put flippers on it, 95% of people won't be brave enough to attempt to enjoy it :) I think it looks great, Ted Zale designed it too, one of the great geniuses of the pinball industry....
35:00 best part
Come on, people
Eightball Deluxe is one of my favorite pinball games from the 80's. My Gottlieb Pinball Pool has the same Derrick Music Co. sticker on the apron.
They were probably putting out games all over the place back in the day!
Well done on this one, guys. That was a beast of a repair.
That turned out great! Well done!
Nice job, as always! I agree with you Ron, LED's for the newer games that were designed for them. Humble old filaments for those that weren't. Is that strobing visible to the naked eye, or is it a camera effect?
It's definitely visible
Love it, between the cosmetic work the owner did and all of your handy work, it's a thing of beauty (still not gone on the LED lights though 😂)
Love your videos! Educational and entertaining!
I've got a Centaur II that uses the same 'Rapid Fire' cabinet. Seems like some folks don't like that cabinet, but personally, I like the layout and it sure does stand out from the crowd. It's also got the original Panaplex displays and has the original Say-It-Again reverb board for speech... Still working great! Listening to your video, the Sqawk & Talk sound fx (especially on my Centaur) sounds a lot like Space Invaders to me.
Yeah I would definitely rather have the Centaur II over a regular Centaur. Pinball people often are very finicky, if anything is different they decide they don't like it.
That's a really cool game. Love the sound of that TMS5200 chip too.
Nice job! One of Bally’s all time best machines.
Nice work. I'm just go ahead a dream that you heard "Eight Ball Deluxe....3 ball". Thanks for making the series of videos on this.
Nice work Ron and Joe . Another awesome game back up and running! Can’t wait to see the next project! Keep em coming !
Coming Soon!
Great work on the repairs. With the amount of work done, this pinball could really use a new glass to finish it off.
Did you notice the sideart is different?
Excellent work Ron. Be proud of this one. I'm proud for ya (and Joey).
That wonderful machine is a great representation of what is possible when working to bring something back to life with what you have to work with.
Props to the owner for doing what is possible to help you in this effort. It may not be 100% original, but it still looks great and actually works.
Thank you again for all you do for us. Keep on rolling!!
You had me at Deluxe Limited Edition ❤
They should have added a "super' in there somewhere, like "Super Deluxe Limited Edition"
You guys are ;like the "vice Grip Garage" of pinball machines. I don't even own a pinball machine but I'm ok with electronics and your videos make me feel confident in fixing things that go well beyond pinball. I mean, if you can fix those machines, you can fix pretty much anything. Also love your attitudes. I never leave comments, just wanted to let you guys know, you're awesome.
Thank you, that is very nice of you to say!
The knocker could’ve gone off because of the missing battery. The replay score settings aren’t being saved.
usly i put on these for bg noise but oh my god the sfx on this game are so cool
Good job works nice pat yourself on the back you did good
Well that was EPIC ;) who would've thunk it. Nice work all round ❤
Great job Ron watching you is really helping me understand schematics better.
You are the ultimate Pinball Wizard
Those are definitely thumper bumpers! So fassst and snappy!
Another excellent job what a fun machine! 😎
Moonshiners? Didn't I see your brother Donny on that? LOL...
Oh, come on people, people, come on now...that was FUNNY!
Great work as always. These pool games are always fun for some reason. Still trying to get a machine in the house...SWMBO just won't hear of it. :(
Great work. Love this game. Just fantastic.
Hey Ron!!
It looks great it plays great
It is awesome 😎
This was well worth the effort.
Hey, when did you get the skirt for the outhole area on the playfield? Was it from a EBD II? It looks like it matches.
I missed it!
We had that, it was in the box of stuff that came with it.
So good. Thanks for doing this
Very enjoyable series of videos Ronnie. Now that you’ve sorted this one out you’ll be in good form for your own one. … a game worthy of a great restoration for sure. Thanks for posting.
Great series Ronnie, Seems like that sound board is just tuff, just like my Xenon that you worked on. Great job in getting them working. Chalk up a win on this series Ronnie. See you on the next video Ronnie.
Thank you Frank, sorry I missed you today!!!
@@LyonsArcade no worries, dad had fun checking out the store.
Its done Kevin!!
Always well done boys👍👍
Thanks Harry!
Beautiful game!
Great job as always.
*_"Get The Eight Ball!!"_*
- Me, in the 90's
It looks great 😊
after cleaning the chip legs, can you use dielectric grease on them to help like on the rotor discs?
I'm not sure, I've never heard of anybody doing that. You're sending digital signals through them, probably not a good idea but maybe.
Super Cool
28:25....That's some sexy pinball computer talk right there...
It's pretty cool
Nice thumbnail title!
As the comedian* said:
"Before I met my wife I was incomplete. Now I'm finished."
*I don't remember which one.
Okay, now I'm gonna go watch the video! 😂
It's finally done yeah
Do I hear a bit of PAC Man DNA in that squawk and talk? Another job well done thank you for the chance to follow along.
@Ron - the reason why the LED's flicker, vs the incandescent bulbs, not flickering, is from the slow, thermal response of the filament in the bulbs, which take on the order of 100-300 ms to heat up to full brightness.
LED's can light up MUCH faster, on the order of us, and are near instantaneously at full brightness.
The matrix style lamp driving methods, with shared data busses, etc, may have small periods of time when the lamps may have been driven from this. With incandescents, the time constants are so slow, they don't light up, or only faintly light. One advantage is that it does keep the filaments pre-warmed, for less thermal shock, hopefully extending the bulb life.
To fix this with LED's, add a capacitor across the LED in the actual replacement lamp, after the limiting resistor + rectifying diode (observing the polarity of the LED and cap if an electrolytic is used). 6.3V would be enough (Vf on an LED is less then a few volts). Probably on the order of 1-10 uF. Maybe a bit more, or less, depending on the frequency/duration of the pulses.
A small series resistor after the cap, between the LED and cap would further filter this. Something around 100 ohms.
Basically, make a low pass filter for the LED...
This cap will intergrate the pulses, and control that weird flickering / pulsing!
Do you keep a list of bodges/repairs unique to the machine and the reasons why inside the machine.. like a repair log? Would like to imagine 100yrs someone else repairing one of your machine, and inside their head saying "C'mon people" - Love watching your videos.. always wanted to start collecting machines as a hobby.
No, I just record the whole thing in color!
Awesome🎉
thank you for watching!
That right bumber is like a machine gun going off.
You know what? I'd take any of those rapid fire cabinet games even though most people would take a traditional one. A refurbished Centaur ][ would look great in my house. Lol
Can tell you two are brothers
just by your voices.
Is there any way to use VN66AF VMOS MOSFETS in place of the NPN transistor.
How do the backbox leds look when the glass is in place? I might look at doing this to mine.
Are they the strips for lighting the ball trough underneath the apron?
Can you not brace the cabinet with threaded rods to pull it square?
Yes that would probably work.
I don't care much for LEDs either, however from an electronic engineering standpoint I wonder if this LED flickering issue could be stopped by wiring a small cap across the legs to delay them coming on a bit
I'll never know ! :)
Some LEDs do not draw enough current to latch the SCR that drives it. The standard fix is to solder a resistor across the socket to slightly increase the current draw. They make LED compatible boards now and there are some 'Non Ghosting' type LEDs available that do not have a flickering problem. IMHO, there is minimal benefit to using LEDs in place of under-insert switched bulbs so I always leave them as incandescents and limit my LED usage for exposed GI lights.
Hey Joe, Joe here. Had a question. I'm in the middle of a full restoration on a 1975 Williams OXO and was wondering if you knew a place I could get plastics for it? I have the complete set (5 pieces) but they are yellowed and faded bad. Been looking everywhere and can't find anything.
Unfortunately I don't, I wish they made more of the titles like that one... you basically have to just find onesies on ebay when they pop up used. You can cut clear ones by hand, and then scan the artwork and print it on a clear decal to put on them but it's a lot of work!
@@LyonsArcade Yea thats what I think I'll have to do. I thought I saw at one time or another of a company that does reproduction plastics but I guess not.
Has anyone tried replacing the display board with a computer interface that would drive a LCD display that will show the player score and which ball is in play.
49:20 The ball still gets bumped up when rolling on the right side. Also, the left flipper looks to be more droopy than the right one (bit hard to see from this view).
If you keep studying, you may even find more things that you can point out aren't right.
@@LyonsArcade That's the easy part to adjust before customer gets it back (assuming he didn't pick it up already).
The sound still sounds like someone's playing a pac-man/shooter type arcade game. That thing needs some western swing pool hall music and EM chimes.
I think the knock in the beginning of the game was when you beat the high score as if you look it was set at 680 later in the video
JOE, What does the Solenoid Expander Relay do or control?
There are more solenoids than the main board can control so they split the solenoids into two banks. The expander board relay flips the solenoid control bus back and forth between banks. That allows each solenoid transistor to operate 2 different coils.
This was early days of solenoid expander control. Soon, new board designs would have more solenoid drivers on them from the start, but when they started using a lot of flashers on the playfield, they needed expanders again. Flashers also were powered by solenoid voltage, so lamp drivers wouldn't do. You power a 12 volt bulb with 40 volts or so, but just for a split second, so it's a delight for the senses.
Would putting a load across the flickering LED's stop or reduce the flicker? - I would find that really off putting.
Putting real lightbulbs in would stop the flicker
Absolutely - prefered option
I like proper bulbs too!
Can you put in a LED relay like they do in the automotive
Whats an LED relay?
@@areizman if you put LEDs in your car for like your turn signals you can replace your relay with a LED compatible relay
So I was wondering if you could put it in the machine it is 12 volt
C'mon Ron, they are 'Thumper' Bumpers! 'Pop' is a Gottlieb name. It's like your working in the Coke factory and ordering a Pepsi :).
We called them Thumpa Bumpas in the entire part you skipped!
I heard Pop over and over again, It drives this old Bally guy mad.😠
You didn't listen then, maybe your hearing aid needs a new battery? Don't let it leak. Did you even watch the video?
Of course I watched the whole thing. I love these videos, but if I made it into a drinking game every time the word Pop was used I would be too drunk to have heard Thumpa. @@LyonsArcade 😆
Turning off all the room lights makes it tough to see the playfield. Leave some lighting on if you could.
"Cattywampus" is an American slang term that means something is askew, in disarray, or not directly across from something. It originated in the Colonial United States and is still used in the deep South. It is a variant of "catawampus", another example of 19th century American slang.
Good job, however, the replay scores, mode, and sound setting are all stored in NMOS. (5101) without the battery you will loose all those settings when you power down. You need the battery backup or NVRAM alternative for the game settings to properly work.
You didn't watch the whole video but that's o.k. If you're going to go around giving people unsolicited criticism you should probably watch the whole video so you don't look foolish
😅😅😅😅@@LyonsArcade
I did watch the whole video, albeit not all at once. These are long. I made notes during the part when it was said you don't need a battery in these games. Yes you do! There is a part near the end where that was corrected? I must have missed that. Assuming most casual viewers will too.@@LyonsArcade
Small caps on the S&T need a new life? I had to change quite a few last time I had one to make it sound properly again.
Which ones? The ones I replaced in the part of the video you didn't watch, or was it some other small caps?
Hawker Jawed
It's crooked!
squawk and satan. ever play any of those sounds backwards? scary stuff
Yodelayheehoo
Yodelayheehoo!!
"Stop talking and start chalking"
Love it, between the cosmetic work the owner did and all of your handy work, it's a thing of beauty (still not gone on the LED lights though 😂)