i think most of his takes are accurate, but I think that they will improve, the game is just undercooked. original video: • The Ups And Downs Of P... / ds_lily
Combine chronomancers slow, temporal rift(+2other curses) and hinder and you can do some combos... Yeah not realistic for most players since I use that "combo" in party play and do 0dps.
@@randomencounter8984 Thats exactly the problem, mobs are balanced around you slowing them down. Like what if you dont slow them and they open the combat on you - its horrible feeling at that point. Reduce mobs speed, nerf slows, so its relativly the same, unless you have no slows -thus slower monsters.
I assumed they gave up on the "support gems aren't damage multipliers" idea because I don't think it can work. Like how many things can you do to an ability that you would give a shit about unless it makes it do more damage, even in a non-obvious way? You can make it bigger (better clear), chain/fork/pierce/more proj (better clear), make the skill CC mobs (actual good utility), become a trap/balista/mine/totem (probably ends up being a damage increase). Basically everything else you can do will end up being a damage increase (even though the gem doesn't like literally say "more damage" on it). Like if a skill shotguns, then more projectiles or more aoe for bigger overlap is a damage multiplier. Make the skill apply exposure? damage multiplier. make the skill shock or apply wither? damage multiplier. pierce/duration on a skill (like spark) that gains damage scaling from those? damage multipier. I can go on but you get the picture. So what happens if you create this support gem system and give it to the players? Well... every skill that can use one of these "non-damage-multipler-supports" in a way that actually DOES give damage becomes "a good/viable" skill. everything that does not? dogshit skill. If a support gem doesn't make you do more damage, clear better, or have better uptime (such as putting a melee skill on a totem so you can still dps while dodging boss mechs, etc) then why would a player even use it? I assume they either thought about it in great depth or even just made it and tried it and came to this conclusion.
I feel like maps being boring (among other things), is a big reason I stopped playing. Other things too but still, and so much content is missing anyway.
@HiddenStr3ngth im loving the game my biggest complaint is i just want to see what type of damage killed me because my pc is shit so half the time idk what to build against. Also i feel there should be an option skip story mode for alt characters because i have only so much time to play.
One of the most special parts of poe 1 to me is how much freedom you have in personalizing your endgame experience so you are doing exactly what you want to do. The rng associated with tower precursor tablets makes me want to rush the maps in range that I dislike so that the maps that I want to run have all the activities and juice. The process is so anti-fun to me. I also don't think I like meta mods being tied to tradeable items. I would much rather have those be a set price immune to the trade economy.
Pretty much this. They're fighting each other and killing both games at once. They should've never came up with PoE2 or just flat out launched PoE2 and told PoE1 that it'll be shutting down in 6 months and that's it. Same shit happened to Division and both games sucked for it. It's not even about man power but also about key minds being split apart. Hopefully they get their act together and drop PoE1 ( sad for veterans but needed for progression ).
the mistake a lot of defenders are making is that they're trying to compare poe1 in its infancy to a 2025 state of gaming where expectations aren't not what they were when poe1 launched. poe2 should NOT be in this ancient state of infancy where learned lessons are not already implemented.
@@Azmodaii are you so dense that you don't think people understand that this is early access and that things can be patched? do you really think that we don't understand that? you're missing the biggest piece of this entire thing = it should NOT be this far behind when we've already learned many of these lessons. is it hard for you to understand that the barebones state of the game should be WAY better? we don't want to wait league after league, year after year for 10 years to go by so the game can FINALLY be what it should already be very close to in terms of fundamentals. if you're so concerned about bloat, then why didn't they abandoned the poe1 season mechanics entirely and start fresh?! again, your theory doesn't really fit the reality
@@herbstomp003 do you not know how to talk to people? What is wrong with you? The game is absolutely fine for a game that’s missing half the playable classes, 24 of the ascendancies (not to mention at least half of the current ones will most definitely be reworked) and half of the acts, which also means we are missing a lot of the maps and bosses that will be playable in the end game when it comes out, like the endgsme is a tacked on concept that is there to serve testing purposes, even jon and mark said plemty of times in thr last interview that it will change, that they are not married to any of this in any way. As for why they have mechanics from Poe1… its because its something they had on hand to mess about with, to see how the players break the game so they can fix it. If this were blizzard or some other corpo developer with a bad track record, I’d understand, but GGG have been receptive to so many things in my thousands of hours played, that I am confident they’ll get things right. And yeah, people do not understand that this is a beta and that things can and will be patched… are you blind and deaf? Pretty much all of the complaints about the game is solved with more content, which is to come, and people are acting like everything is set in stone when they’ve already changed portals for bosses and added tablets for map bosses. The game will look entirely different in 6 months (let alone at release in a year or so), you just need to see how things have turned oit and continue to turn out with poe 1.
SAY IT AGAIN FOR ALL THE COPERS IN THE BACK. Game is literally almost done, they'll just add classes, weapons, supports, and change a few things and call it a day mark my words. Blows my mind they regressed so hard on many lessons learned in Poe 1
@@PopersIRL They can, and they will. GGG has admitted some of these are design flaws in the most recent interview. But it is also fair to be concerned about this.
@@Sidnv of course! ggg might be off their gourd with these "intentional design choices", but theyre also extremely receptive to feedback. so many people complain by saying the design of the game wasnt an accident and was very intentional....as if that means theyll never change it
@@PopersIRL True, but most of them were already solved in PoE1 and they have made them better in last 3-4-5 years, but PoE2 developers completely ignored all of it and still made the same mistakes. That's the problem for me.
@Lolmiq and the problem for me. but theres a high chance they get fixed anyway. Ik it shouldnt have to be fixed in the first place but im not gonna let it bother me much
You say crafting isn't a design decision but they removed Scouring and Alteration orbs. That's a decision they made to slow down progression of gear intentionally. That's all it does.
No, it also makes everything more tedious and annoying, like having to stash a lot of white bases... In one hand, it's cool that white items can hold some value, but if that's the tradeoff, it's not worth it imho. The problem is even compounded further with what Ben said about the reforge bench... Why so much hassle?
Yeah they very obviously want to extend player time to increase microtransaction purchase odds and easier justifying of spending money on the game. I do believe it will backfire and people will get tired of the devs making them suffer just because. Right now, the endgame, at best, is a mediocre slop RNG ridden clownfiesta that is overly punishing and the reward is mostly non existant. You just pick orbs and buy better gear through trade (if you're not one of these SSF guys that are just amazing at the game and know everything about it). It's just miserable for the sake of being miserable and making you spend more time doing everything.
Removing scours and alterations orbs makes white items on the ground interesting. You can't just buy / get one base and go with that forever. A high lvl base can suddenly be flippin important. Just look at popular crafting / chance bases right now. In the long run I also think this is a good thing, because it means that "failed crafts" will be put up for sell, because they may not be what YOU want, but could be what other people needing half your gear is after. I.e it would make more semi awesome gear available to people, because it's not just "rolled over" every time. Crafting right now is lacking options, that's for sure. But isn't that somewhat to be expected? I only wish they'd increase the dropchances of omens / essences by several thousand percent though!!
Man is really complaining about reforging taking slightly more clicks and and other trivial crap lol. For real, some people just want to hold W and one attack button, in a map that’s a straight hallway, have all loot auto-sent to bank, brain off cookie clicker mode. Literal arpg degen brainrot.
It doesn't seem like we've seen the video 🤣 He literally said why does Poe 2 exist? If only just going to be a cookie-clicker, it doesn't make sense, we already have Poe 1
@ I'm sorry your friends don't enjoy it, but most of my friends are still playing or played untill "finishing" the current content. So much for anecdotal evidence. If we look to objective metrics, steam charts speak vary much in favor of PoE2, too. PoE2 got still player numbers on Steam alone, that you would normally expect in week 1 of a new PoE1 league.
I think Ben has good points but ignoring the fact that it could get better and saying it is just doomed is a bit of an overreaction, it's early access and headed in a good direction imo. Idk any other devteam that listens to its players as much as GGG. On his point of wanting to run the same map you said you don't like that. In PoE1 there's always the option to run different maps if you want to OR you could run the same map over and over. In PoE2 it's not even an option so I'd say that isn't really a matter of opinion. Things will magically get better with more content bc half of his complaints were about lack of options, I'm not sure how he doesn't see that
he said the current end game design is doomed. he didn't say the game in general is doomed. the question is whether his concern and sentiment is warranted, and obviously it's just a wait and see situation. he just shooting his shots while the target is out in the open. like everyone else is.
He is saying he doesn't like fundamental aspects of the game. Those aren't usually things that will get better with more content, they are deep rooted into the game and define the game. Like the entire game being built around item bases. No re-rolling them, no scour, needing to hoard and 3:1 them. Every crafting system is designed around that, the whole game is balanced around that. You must pick up every single item base and just slam it to see if you randomly get an upgrade. So how do they even add more to the game to improve that if that is their paradigm for getting new items? They can add more ways to randomly slam mods, like maybe fossils, but if they stick with this paradigm then his core issue with remain in the game forever
@@chossmediathe problem is that hes saying those words "fundamental aspects" for example, but a lot of his complaints are not fundamental and can easily be changed and most likely will be changed over time, the gsme is not even close to actual release yet, the endgsme was put together very quickly for ea testing and while i csnt guarantee theyll fix every single issue on releasez you have to let the devs actually work on actual big changes, not these tiny patches we got. Him saying the game is doomed is pure doomsaying and doesnt actually come from a centered, reasonable mindset. Criticize the game, thats actually good, a lot of his criticism i actully hope ggg heeds and use, but not the doomsaying cuz the game isnt poe1
@@chossmedia Fundamental things in PoE1 were fixed the exact same way I'm talking about, crafting in PoE1 when it released was garbage tier, then they added content with crafting currencies and the game got better. The endgame drops and the way crafting has worked in PoE1 has been changed drastically over the years and to act like that's locked in for PoE2 is clearly biased for anyone that's not emotionally invested in this. The game being built around item bases is a secondary issue that is addressed the same way crafting as a whole is addressed. All of the problems he mentions are non issues that are just nit picky bc he cant go fast enough and I agree there should be more options to play how you want but he is objectively wrong that these things will doom the game
i dont like how she has to walk on egg shells because people treat this ben guy like hes jesus christ himself. the amount of times lily said "i dont know" because shes holding back what she really wants to say.
The game is undercooked, after FIVE-SIX years of development, PoE2 is undercooked. Let that sink in. And we're expecting GGG to (according to them) release the full game by the end of the year. No red flags? Really? None? And GGG already did drop their first big patch, that's what 0.1.1 IS. And if you're not impressed... Sorry. But I guess this is what we have to look forward to.
they're building the framework of the game, if you expected poe 2 to match poe 1's endgame in 1 year of early access development or even 5-6 years of development for a new game you're delusional. poe 1 took 4-5 years of development after it was released to get to a spot that was as amazing as it is.
25:42 the statements are meant to be combined, he is stating that the issue IS NOT JUST the lack of content but the core gameplay. It's 100% apparent the lack of content and things that can be explained by EA will likely improve -- the core components may or may not. This is a misinterpretation, that was the point he made through the entire video almost.
The jump from campaign bosses to endgame content is a huge letdown. They promised a greater focus on boss fights, but the endgame doesn't live up to that at all. The problem is that the boss animations from the campaign are still the same in the endgame, but by that point, we're so much faster that they don’t pose a real threat. Even if their survivability were increased, it wouldn't change much because the game’s pace at that stage completely outpaces their attacks. The whole ‘God-like’ power we’re supposed to have doesn’t match the challenge these bosses provide. All of this makes the game less fun to play. Without those dynamic and methodical fights that keep you engaged, the endgame just loses its appeal.
In POE2, endgame combat and more needs to be redesigned and rebalanced. We got an early draft of endgame, and there is good reason why it exists. I hope it looks very different in a year, and it will be very silly to compare to ask why it exists when POE1 did the same thing.
In my opinion it's a flaw in the whole approach. People don't tend to really care too much about campaign mode in an ARPG. It's something you play through once, then try to optimize ignoring it as much as possible. I haven't followed development too closely, but as I understand it, they put a lot of effort into this campaign early gameplay, and didn't construct the endgame vision yet. If their focus wasn't on their endgame loop, it's time poorly spent. If they want combat to be more souls like, then the endgame content makes no sense. I just feel like there is an overall lack of greater vision on what this game is supposed to be played like currently.
PoE2 is in a weird state for me. The campaign part is 9.8/10 for me. Sure, it has some minor flaws, but overall it's among my favorite games of all time. I love just about everything about the campaign. It's like a combination between my favorite things - Souls games + D2 and it couldn't be better. But the endgame on another hand...that's a whole different story. The endgame goes from D2+Souls to fucking Vampire Survivors. I just spam my 1 or 2 spells and everything dies before I can even see it. And if you can't kill everything before you can see it, then your build likely sucks and you hardly have any fun. The endgame must be redesigned from the ground up. Everything is too fast, the mobs have too little health so just about every AoE spell is able to be spammed for a successful clear. The players need more defense stats too and a nerf to the damage. The endgame should be like the campaign, but 10-20% faster. Right now it feels like a completely different game in all of the bad ways. PoE2 has the potential to be one of the greatest games ever made, I hope they don't fumble this chance.
Saying "the game isn't finished" is an excuse for things like bugs, crashes, balance, lack of content. But most of the things he talks about are fundamentally bad and need complete redesign. I mean how do you work on that game for 4 years having all of the POE1 knowledge and experience and end with this game where none of the systems feel good?
You don’t know how game development works or the resources they had/have to put this game out as it is. You do not know what you are talking about. But you know how to assume and push your expectations because what? GGG owe you something? Stop assuming and stop being a little sheep.
@@UnderPoverP I don't have first hand knowledge of game development. What is your point? I'm commenting on the official GGG statements about what they are doing and what their goals are and the current state of the game.
@@UnderPoverP you know shit about it too wtf do you mean, they had all the money all the time all the experince and they made fuck all of it, game is in every way worse than poe 1 apart graphics, ppl just handwave all of it on it being EA or "poe 1 10 years ago was so shit and you expect poe 2 to be so good" Poe 1 came out more than decade ago with no experience or money stop fucking comparing it
because 99% of his complaints are things GGG are adressing? Do you really think they are going to leave endgame as is? do you really think they are going to leave skill gems as is? do you really think they are done with class balance? there are 6 more classes and 24 more ascendency's coming out. I was around for the kickstarter closed beta for poe 1 and the crafting was just as bare bone. GGG is trying to make a good BASELINE game, for them to build upon for more crafting options and league mechanics and class balances. For everyone to jump on the "OMG ITS SO BAD" train is just the most braindead take
if you prefer running different map layouts rather than running only 1, you can do that in poe1. dont favor a map, or favor many different ones. the difference is, poe1 lets you choose. 1 map only? there you. dont want that? no problem, you can do that too. the keyword is freedom of choice
And then all the guides tell everyone to run the same few maps. Then everyone complains that it’s boring. Players optimize the fun out of games. You say you have choice, but the reality is 99% of players choose whatever the most optimal thing is even if it’s less fun.
but I think the issue is, and this is known in all games, if it is not optimal to run multiple maps, you won't do it right? people will optimise the fun out of games. They will optimise the fun out of the combat, that's the goal of the design of these systems right? freedom to do whatever you want isn't always good for the game, if there is a reason why people want to run the same map over and over, then maybe there is a design problem there that can be solved.
You *can* run different layouts but it means you're doing things a lot less efficiently than people who only run the "good" layouts, and players will usually opt for efficiency. This is a case where it's a bit of a false choice. I mean, you could argue that you can still keep running the same layout in POE2 too, that you have that choice. It means not killing the last rare mob and resetting the map each time. You don't want to do that? Well of course you don't, it'd be a lot less efficient because you miss the atlas bonuses on subsequent runs. The same goes for POE1 and running different (worse) layouts. POE2 mapping system is so much more interesting in my opinion, but then again, I never was a big fan of endless strand/dunes/jungle valley all day long. I always liked the start of the league where I *had* to run every layout to get completion. I don't mind running inefficient underground layouts like dungeon, these maps had cool aesthetics and vibes. But once you reached endgame, there was no reason you'd run them because they were so much less efficient than running a straight line or circle map. POE2 you can't help but run the less efficient layouts, which means I can run a map like mire or augury and not feel like I'm "bad" for doing so. I genuinely enjoy these maps, I think they're interesting thematically and I like the changeup in how I approach clearing it. I didn't like them before they introduced checkpoints, but with checkpoints they're fine and the "inefficient" layouts just present a puzzle for how to best clear. There's just a lot more variety to mapping in POE2. Some maps will have 100%+ quantity, some maps you have to run with much less to get to another tower. That's okay. Variety is the spice of life, and the downs just make the ups that much more satisfying. POE2 would be so much more boring to me if I was just running sandspit all day.
@@omegaxtrigun The key thing here is choice. You have the choice to optimize the fun out of the game. You have the choice to do an unfun thing for more profit. Most people cap out their builds in the first 3 weeks of a league. Once the first week rush is over min-maxing to the absolute maximum begins to drop off. You aren't severely punished for not minmaxing. Poe 2 however, has no choice.
This is an important point. PoE1 lets you choose. When you have no choice on the maps you run, the baseline map needs to be on Savannah or Sandspit tier. Right now 80%+ of all layouts are completely dogshit and its not helped by the kill all rare backtracking dogshit.
I guess Lily loves Poe2. Personally it's not for me and it seems like ggg is willing to let poe1 die in favor of their new baby. It's a bummer but it is what it is. Plenty of new games are coming to fill the void left by Jonathan's bad decision making
It's sad, it didn't need to be like this. Jonathan might be damaging GGG more than they can recover from, you should NOT abandon the only finished game you have for just being a bit faster deploying an EA or later, improving on that EA. That's what EA is for, cooking until it's good. Leaving PoE1 in the dust is not a good idea.
I enjoyed PoE 2 more than PoE 1 (that is, until I got to endgame). That being said, once MH Wilds releases PoE 2 won't exist for me. The game LOVES to make you waste your time on every possible action you take (and in a way that I don't think exists in PoE 1 where it's much more lenient with better crafting, less dependant on RNG, six tries, better endgame, etc). Can be fine for a one time experience, but doing this tiresome crap every league? No thank you.
I'm fully with Ben. I still pay attention to poe2 content in case there's an announcement that they've dramatically shifted their approach, but mostly because I'm curious about whether or not they are going to keep their promise to maintain both games. I'm happy to keep on playing poe1 if they keep making leagues for it. Are they gonna, though? They said they would. But I wonder for how long.
They were making leagues for PoE 1 throughout PoE 2 development, for years, with a tiny, tiny team left on it. Ofc. right now PoE 2 is the focus, getting that to a decent place. PoE 1 gonna have to wait a little bit. (though if you like PoE 1, it's still great to play even now, even if sadge cus no league)
It seems, it does not bode well for PoE1... And what they are doing is a big mistake imho. PoE2 might be the future, but rushing it at the expense of the present that's PoE1(still profitable and still growing), is a bad idea. I think this should be obvious to everyone.
29:10 hard disagree - the problem is being way too heavy handed with nerfs; if they want the combat to be "meaningful" then progressively tone things down to where they think they should be consistent small balance changes don't kill builds, doing the shit they did to CoF, CoC and gas grenades does though. You speak like the ONLY WAY to fix the balance is to be extremely heavy-handed whack-a-mole nerfing things out of existence. Right now the combat is completely opposed to GGG's vision and the game is and has been sitting in that state since launch, why is this not priority number one to get fixed? It's not particularly hard to do a weekly balance patch that shifts some things up and down to make things more reasonable, fix mana costs, ect. its literally changing a few numbers, it doesn't require major development time So what, we do a big patch every few months that balances some stuff and adds a bunch more new shit that is going have broken stuff in that is going to sit there until the next big patch in a few months time again? If you do that the state of the game is going to constantly be broken. You need to fix what is currently there before you keep adding new shit. GGG is treating PoE2 like its fully released already, not like its in EA and that IS concerning.
Things like the crafting are definitely design decisions. They took away alts/chaos/scours and that is what made the current system you have now. That was a design decision. They don't need to add a crafting league to fix it, they could also just actually allow regular players to get the higher essences and omens to use for crafting regular gear. The current system is directly a result of things they can adjust and they have left it where it is.
yes, crafting is a design decision and it could be fine with more / better crafting tweaks is my entire point, with the game in a barebones state i dont think it's hard to imagine the barebones designs with actual meat on them will be fine
@dslily if their design philosophy is for players to not have much control over their items and to rely on rng to make gearing more difficult, then I don't think things will change unless they change this idea. When crafting is too rng it doesn't make gear worse or the game harder, it just makes you have to buy it from the trade site.
Yeah they probably need to state their vision for crafting. They could pivot, but at the moment it seems like they really don't want players to be able to craft the best items deterministically. I'd be surprised if something like Harvest would get added.
Yeah, they said multiple times they want us to loot a million bases instead of spamming a million alts on the same base. And I hate that decision very very much. It's not fun and it's a scary path to follow that leads to total regression of all the good things poe1 invented. Looting currency that does something meaningful was the most genius evolution of arpg endgame loot system; why do they want to go backwards on that? Because LE did it? But LE crafting and looting is objectively worse than POE1 (not to mention that they also refused to copy the one thing that even made it relatively viable in LE, that is items dropping identified combined with loot filters for affixes). Why copy them? I'm really dumbfounded by the logic behind their reasoning here. P.S. That also ruins the economy without any real way to fix it - if there's no way to use exorbitant amounts of common currency quickly, then that currency will always become completely worthless very quickly.
@@superking___If that rng is lowered…with say, additional crafting options, that would be an improvement. I personally hate the idea of full deterministic crafting. Being able to realistically brute force a craft sounds boring. Having a level of rng sounds better, but I want more agency than what we currently have in POE2. Having only 2 out of 6 choices be slightly influenced by me feels bad.
The problem with new crafting per league is: GGG don‘t want for good things to go core. At least not before 6 further leagues have passed. They delay everything that is „going-core“ related. The criticism for crafting is too mild tbh. They had all these great systems and chose to abandon every aspect of them. That is not a we don‘t have time choice. That really is a design choice. Up to a point where crafting is a very elitist thing to do because you can‘t restart.
They didn't want to put damage multiplier on support gems back then because they haven't implemented the 1-Support Gem Limit per character. This would just repeat PoE1 gem system where all damage multipliers goes to your clearing and bossing skill, etc. But since you can only have 1 support gem per character, it limits what skill have the damaging skills and your setup/support skillls.
The 1-support limit didn't make any sense, however even if they removed that it would still be a lame system where all you'd do would still be to cram every more multiplier in each skill instead of changing how skills work with cool support gems.
@adriandraganescu6040 that's the thing with 1-support limit. You avoid the lame system and still we can get support gems with multipliers. Probably now we're not seeing it because we're only dealing with the first batch of support gems. They'll surely add more.
@ Yeah but why? Why are multipliers needed on support gems to begin with? They stated themselves in 2023 that they will avoid multipliers on gems yet here we are. It doesn't make for fun customization of skills. It would have been infinitely better if support gems just changed how the skills work and stuff like that. Similar to how LE does it in their system but better with more options!
@@adriandraganescu6040 multipliers are good for different functions. Let's say 30% inc damage can already separate your main skill and setup skill from each other instead of just utility. If they keep the balance between skill gems alone, some skill gems no longer have the potential to be a main damaging skill gem which would impact build diversity. For ex, Earthquake is strong but would you have it as your main skill gem or just use sunder because their dps is balanced. You would just prefer sunder over earthquake all the time because all you add to support both are utilities while sunder is easier to use. And yes they mentioned they won't add support with multipliers but again, they implemented 1-support gem per char to avoid repetitive support gems on every skill. You really don't want 3 of your skills to have the brutality support, well maybe you do but it affects the build diversity. If you have brutality support on every damaging skill you have, then why are you equipping additional skills anyway.
@@adriandraganescu6040 and LE has a lot of useless nodes that just adds damage multipliers too or requires you to put 3/5 points to a node which only add +2 sec duration per point that you don't need to reach a certain node. LE tree is great but some nodes are just fillers and require you to allocate a lot of points into it that your build doesn't need.
You like the map layouts? Have you ever tried the Vaal ones or Mire? The layouts combined with kill all rares killed the game for me and I ain’t coming back anytime soon.
I think my only problem with "guys it's not complete" is that MANY of these problems existed in poe1. Why are these hurdles in poe2? Why are we apologizing on ggg's behalf for these issues? I am still in the camp of this is early access and hoping it's a traditional early access with many changes to come before "live". But I still dislike all the apologist attitude toward the issues that never needed to exist in poe2 to begin with. It seems like willful ignorance.
The big concern for me is the overt development focus in the campaign on boss fights just getting dropped in the endgame. Not just the kill all rares shit but the fact they chose such swarmy league mechanics to implement. I want to know so bad what was the leadership mindset to turn away from bosses like this. Throwing it together isn't a good enough explanation, these were choices.
Yeah, if they could just nail boss fighting, but the problem is that the game has sped up so much that boss animations no longer pose any threat. Even if they boost the bosses' HP to make them last longer, it’ll always turn into an easy clown fest.
At around 25:00, I do think it makes perfect sense to say the content in endgame is there. I don’t know what I would be missing content-wise. In POE 1, there’s not much more in terms of "new things to find" than in POE 2. I mean, the Arbiter takes as long as Maven, and A4 takes as long as Uber Maven to farm, I would say. There are 4 other pinnacle bosses, which is almost the same as POE 1’s mapping content. (Sure, one could argue that POE 1 has more bosses for something like Expedition, which has 3, and so on. But these aren’t harder or more engaging than the pinnacles. You can kill them if you want, especially after doing the Uber pinnacles.) Update: Yes I do know that there are more different things in POE 1 but I don´t think these are the reason that you get the feeling like there is nothing to do in POE2. Most ppl in a league only focus on 1 or 2 mechanics for that league so they don´t need all of it. If we don´t have anything to do in POE 2 now after less than a league than it in my opinion not because there are to few of them. But yes more wouldn´t hurt. Beyond that point, there’s only so much new "content" you can add. The reason POE 1 feels better is that you can scale the content more, and you can scale your character more. But it's not that we’re missing new bosses, maps, or alternative league systems. If they added Blight, it wouldn’t make a difference-some would farm it, others wouldn’t, but it wouldn’t keep you playing because it’s just another thing on your map. It’s horizontal scaling. If you could add more tablets to all of you maps or add more modifiers sure that would make it more fun, but just simply adding tablets would certainly breakt it in other ways. And the atlas makes just not fun to search for 1-2 maps that can be juiced to then have 10 maps in preparation. On a similar note, I don’t think crafting just gets better with new leagues. The only way it would is if they reverse one of their core changes in POE 2, which is the idea that you’re crafting a base item. They changed all the orbs so you can’t redo an item over and over because they wanted to make drops matter. Right now, the most a base item from regular enemies can cost is 1c in POE 1, because you can keep re-rolling it for that price. If we look at most bases in POE 2, they succeeded in making them worth something. But as long as that’s the case, crafting will be centered around these bases and their availability. I don’t see how this will be fun. If they add a new league that lets you simply clear items (in a cheap way-annuls don’t count because they’re so rare, meaning a base item needs to be worth around 3 annuls for it to make sense as base crafting option). So, I see BEN's point here. There’s nothing to do, not because there isn’t enough "content," but because we can’t scale the content to match our character strength, and we don’t need upgrades because we can’t scale speed (and that’s not just movement speed) to scale the clear in meaningfull ways. (There are ways to get better clear but these are always Buildchanges not upgrades to you character. In POE 1 you can make almost any Build fast with enough investment. Thats not possible in POE 2. I do think Temporalis Clear is at least as fast as very very good POE 1 Builds and with Queen of the Forest you can get 100+% MS and be fast but thats simply a build difference not an upgrade)
i regularly swap my mapping strategy every week in poe 1 and have something different to do for pretty much the entire league that is the beauty of poe 1, in poe 2 i have like 3 options that you outscale instantly. also there are many bases in poe 1 worth far more than any poe 2 base
Genuine question: Did GGG not explicitly say endgame was thrown together as a rough draft for testing purposes? Am I misremembering this? The endgame lacks content both in amount of choices and your ability to reach the choices. With citadels being hard to find, most players had not killed those bosses or arbiter because it felt like dumb luck. With buy ins to making deli/ritual/exped feel good, new players don’t invest into this content. With breach being the meta currency farming method, new players flocked to only doing this content. I don’t understand how adding crafting options doesn’t fix this. How is having 3 bases per piece make the focus exclusively bases? I personally hope they don’t make the biggest mistake of listening to all these POE1 doomers. This game should be a different game, otherwise they could’ve kept patching POE1 and rebranded to bring in new players. I hope that the combat you can achieve in campaign is scaled to work in endgame. It all just becomes the POE1 1 button clear, it’s boring and made for ADHD-ridden players. This game has an infinitely better experience for early game, so the hope is they can carry this over to continue into endgame amidst their content changes. Side note: Him saying Spark is the most engaging currently is the funniest shit ever.
@@dslily 100% facts. PoE 1 end game has a wealth of content that is not comparable to 2. With systems that are fun and rewarding. While also having very well streamlined progression that is satisfying and rewarding. PoE 2 doesn't have that. (clear 10 tier 5 maps is not it, and they know it) In 1, I often start with expedition, as it falls off drop it and do some Alva temples(good to sell too). Do a lot of delve for leveling, it's also rewarding and nice to run. If I feel frisky I do Heist (which is fun but leveling the dudes every time isn't, it takes a lot of time). Even did some betrayal lately. (and many other options that are all interesting enough, besides essence I guess). All the while progressing the Atlas and gaining good rewards for it. Progressing Sear and Eater, then Maven, which also has steady and clear progression. The progression ladder in PoE 1 is super nice and keeps you invested. Seeing clear progress towards meaningful goals is huge.
Idk man im a new player for poe2 and im having a blast, 300hrs in. Maybe lots of poe 1 players are just jaded now. Realistically, i dont think GGG will keep poe 1 around. It's just not good for business perspective. Poe2 has really good player retention. And maybe the unfortunate reality is that poe 1 players are not gonna have a game to play anymore in near future, and GGG will have no problem dropping them out since poe 2 is doing great in numbers. Bad thing for poe 1 players, but good for new poe 2 players? Sad but, such is life i guess. Cant have your cake and eat it too.
@@alifpatria2135 good for u bruh u have fun in poe2 ! but if u don't play POE1 u don't even knew how bad POE2 is right now ! and they said they will make 2 game work along side ! if they can't do that just shutdown poe2 and cook it for 2 more year then realease !
@@toannguyen-yt1tkI know how bad POE1 was 4 years ago. Shit game then. My biggest complaint is POE2 endgame combat feels too much like POE1 combat. Braindead sprint, 1 button clear, buff/debuff if boss. It’s still slower than the average POE1 build, but is too fast to feel meaningful. Oh and delve doesn’t exist yet as it was the only content I enjoyed in POE1, but that isn’t a genuine complaint.
On anything relatively tanky you combine Shockburst Rounds to make dmg with another skill to apply shock depending on your build. On top of that you use mark for better shock, curse to cut resistances, reload for speed and more damage. That's 5 buttons already, is it not enough?
It works on warrior (if you take away the leftclick aoe build that's op and does everything). You go to a wall (because there's no way to put a circle wall around you (why does fortress gem work like it does...?)), put up a wall to not get killed instantly by the hyperspeed enemies (hopefully the wall survives long enough, usually it does) and then do a 2 second windup slam to 1-shot everything. That's a combo. But all of that happens only because warrior is intentionally hobbled and weak. The combos exist but it also feels bad to do them because 1) they're still very limited in what you can actually do 2) only weak builds need to do it, 3) you'd rather just get 300% skill speed (nope, not possible) and not need to do the wall at all, so the combo just feels artificially forced on you. If you were allowed to trade all your damage to be a very fast slammer that can speedclear T1 or do a big damage combo that 1shots T15, well then the combo would feel a lot better and a lot more meaningful. Bad balance and artificial hobbling feels bad.
@@piktasniekas8124 "1) they're still very limited in what you can actually do 2) only weak builds need to do it, 3) you'd rather just get 300% skill speed (nope, not possible) and not need to do the wall at all, so the combo just feels artificially forced on you. " Yup, at least more combos and hopefully more interesting supports will be added. That actually change skills mechanically, I mean, gameplay wise. Like Fortress support. Making projectiles work in weird ways or shoot out in different patterns etc. That type of stuff.
@michael_bones @piktasniekas8124 i never said that combos dont exist in poe2. but using combos is stupid in how the game is balanced hence why all builds use one skill to oneshot the screen. mobs running with full speed at u and u being in a wheelchair that can only do his scuffed roll makes using combo skills pretty stupid u rather just onetap them before they reach u. best example for me is ritual. try do some combo stuff in there. mobs spawn right on top of u, in the time u build up your shit they already surrounded, stunned and killed you. And you see it in the gameplay at the end. there is no combos being used or methodical gameplay its just 1 button and u strafe arround the mob.
there are combo based builds, not necessarily close to combo builds that exist in poe 1, but thats also because of the lack of skills in poe 2 atm, a good example is a lot of evocation builds use multiple evocations in order to boost damage, apply crit weakness, restore mana (effectively hp for a lot of builds with MoM), it's valid to say that combo based gameplay isn't super prevalent atm and that it needs to be changed somewhat, but the framework of poe 2 allows for a large amount of potential in the future with the weapon swap changes alone for example.
I have a LOT of respect for Ben, he's a god gamer and completely entitled to his opinion. I think he's let his frustration blind him a bit from his logic. Call me a homer, but I have COMPLETE confidence and faith that PoE2 is going to put all other ARPGs to shame, simply because of how well they listen to the community and they actually play the game. It's insane to think they won't massively overhaul the endgame and really the base game prior to full release. I would agree with him on the fact that they should have nuked Herald tech into the ground, it's stupid and it has completely ruined the gameplay at endgame.
Why? Half of the skills and even more support gems aren't even in the game yet. Why balance around quick hotfixes now? What problem are you solving for?
You understand the huge increase in player base are alot of the types of people that will throw a giant fit if their char gets nerfed. This is a business decision. If they nerfed herald chains and es and stat stacking etc a bunch of people would cry and quit.
@@cebolinha-oliginalthere is no season moron it's literally EA standard. There's no league mechanics currently. Now is the time to clip builds before it's too late
browsing ritual items with a controller: game auto-pauses browsing ritual items with kb&m: mobs come at you from under your butt. where is the justice??
@@ulgenrabishlave4645the problem is yall bash people for giving feedback. Any time someone gives feedback yall defend the devs and say “it’s ea”. Well yeah that’s why they’re complaining to better the game
Ben is somebody who has finally woke up and broke out the glaze stage, this next major update needs to be something and we need 3.26 to make up for this boring few month stint of poe2 herald abuse.
I feel like most of the the video complaints come from people expecting poe2 to be like the game they main, whether it be a diablo or poe1. I'm vibing on the game
was playing poe-1 in 2011 CBT, when Piety was the final boss. One of the things that struck me out as "Wow these guys really care about their game" was the fact that every time i would launch it it would download some fixes and there would be some notes. It was patched constantly.
That's also to some degree something that changes with the increasing size of the company and the project itself. Back than a small team in a small project can make constant small changes and push them. This is not possible anymore with a project the size of PoE2 for many reasons. One is e.g. that they need to give client side changes to Sony and Microsoft for quality checks 1-2 weeks ahead of time before they can be pushed. I think they still very much care about both their games.
Yes, I was also expecting more constant updates. Waiting 2-3 months for a "big patch" is fuckigng bad. Not to mention the 3 weeks they took off after dropping the game!
My biggest issue with the game is that is in this weird in-between state where it's too easy for day 1 POE 1 players, but still doesn't allow for the amount of experimentation a new player needs to figure things out. Especially early on when skills and builds can change so much, I just want to be able to play around with more stuff, but with two lesser jeweller's orbs and a respec system that punishes you for making adjustments at a later point in the game, where you could finally start to dick around and explore fun ideas, it really feels like they just don't want you to experiment. I was really hoping for a version of POE where I wouldn't have to look up guides, download extra software, worry about meta strategies, or get stuck with trade league just because I have other things going on. A POE where I'm not told that I don't get to have fun just because a top player could abuse the mechanic it's based on.
I totally agree with Ben. I came back to poe after like 10 years and campaign is ok but endgame after some hours is totally boring, no crafting, crap trading. Bad design in so many places. Im at 95lvl now and dont know what to do, go thought same content over and over again? Even when joining party there is only clearing maps and no more acctivites. Anything interesting, anything - NO. Even clearing together pinacle bosses? No because you got 1 try. Endgame doesnt needs small changes or skills nerfs... it needs a total big change. In current state, in longer term like few months, numbers of players will only decrease. Please check current stats and estimations - its slowly going down. Probably in some time I will also quit. Thanks Lily! Cheers!
"Please check current stats and estimations - its slowly going down." - Wow, like every gamer ever? Like PoE 1 every league? lol Obviously PoE 2 needs a lot. It literally is missing more than half of the game, what do you expect. End game boring for me too, I stopped playing it, just waiting for updates. Can't compare it to PoE 1 that has had several years of hard work, polishing and streamlining and crap ton of content(Main thing). PoE 2 - missing 3 acts, with all the accompanying monster types, gear base types, maps, bosses etc. (all used in end game too). Missing half of weapon types, axes, swords, spears, flails etc. All with their accompanying Skills (and supports). Missing half the classes and MOST ascendancies. Missing a lot of end game content, the bigger more interesting systems especially. (and some of what is there is badly balanced now, on top of missing some elements, so it's not too fun) Literally less than half the game is there. A crap ton of things will improve even simply by adding a lot more content. (yes, there are core issues also but game would still be PoE 1 tier and above even with only adding a ton of content)
POE was shit 4 years ago, so I can only imagine 10 years ago. And it’s early access, take a break and play other games. That is what you should do. You just described half of the movement of every multiplayer game ever: bleed players slowly, then surge at content release, and repeat.
It's missing half of the campaign and a couple of classes/ ascendancy. End game boss and league content. Literally them finishing the game is putting in all the micro transactions into the game from PoE.
Less than half of the ascendies are in and half of the classes are in. Endgame is a skeleton placeholder. Games not done yet and it's only been two months of release. People have no patience
2:30 "The worst PoE1 Layout is S+ in PoE2" - just no. Dungeon Map in PoE1 is worse than every single map layout PoE2 got, even Vaal Factory. 3:50 "What has changed, what has fucking changed" - Geez, he seems to underestimate the work that goes into big content and balance changes, more so with 2-3 weeks holidays in between. And even with that, there were already a ton of small changes to cater to the audience. In total he seems to be unreasonably salty. The "the endgame is doomed"-take is so weird from a PoE1 Veteran. Maybe he forgot how PoE1 endgame looked like 1-2 years ago (holy fuck were atlas regions annoying).
@@dinglueliu7998 You only have to do it once most of the time that's true. But that is not the point he made, he made the point that the layout itself would be considered S+ in PoE2, which is just wrong.
They really did NOTHING for 2 months, what do you mean, the last patch could be 3 rows with the same effect. Regarding layout, are you serious? There are layouts like dungeon but 5 times bigger
@@Misho_the_exile They fixed almost everything players had problem with since launch and other problems are adressed yet ppl have the audacity to say they did nothing tf
I completely not worry about the game future. It's just the endgame that they worked on only for an half of a year when the compagn was cooked for 5 years. Give devs feedback and time.
@@dslily Why tho. The video listed so many bad decisions, some at the design level. Something will definitely change, not necessarily for the better, but in most cases everything will remain as is. Why is there such a cope that the devs will fix everything? To me it seems rather naive.
@@wilhelmcastellanos8632 Because that's your personal opinion("bad" decisions), probably because you are a fan of Ben. Some of his takes are not things that need to change, in fact, it would be bad for the game to change. (like no support gem restrictions) At the least, it's far from an objective take. Ben is a pretty specific type of player, he wants what HE likes. Other things, are obvious things that most people have brought up already. And just about anyone agrees with. Lilly included. (is that video actually new? cus in some ways it sounds not up to date) He is being weirdly extreme and starts to sound like people who sit on the PoE 1 forum all day and constantly cry about everything about it and are never happy. Or ones that go "Dead game" to literally anything, including games that are thriving or haven't even released yet. (like PoE 2) A lot of the complaints are either things that can be fixed by a balance pass(e.g. melee mana issues). Or things that will be vastly better when more content is added. (literally more than half the game is missing and the end game was rapidly thrown together before early access release. half of the item bases, weapon types, monsters, bosses, skills, supports, maps, crafting, end game mechanics, objectives, acts, more than half of the ascendancies and half the classes etc. etc.). Given all this, it's ridiculous to act like that. Towards a game that is like 40% "complete". That has barely been out publicly. Woah, whole month has went by (with devs back to work), and they haven't changed it drastically yet? Doomed, ruined. Ok, bro. I have plenty of issues with PoE 2, including core design issues. Though those are mostly things I don't like in PoE 1 also. Still have been playing PoE 1 forever, as it has other aspects that make it good. (which PoE 2 is lacking in right now, naturally, end game needs a lot of love). My biggest concerns with PoE 2 are probably the combat gameplay, balance and the map designs. The rest will pretty much be "fixed" with more content (and obv. if it's at least the quality of PoE 1) That take that content will not improve things, is nonsensical.
His takes are rife with contradictions about what it means for a game to be in EA and what state POE2 is in. Pretending POE is not just 1 button builds for 90% of the most efficient builds is also being disingenuous.
Thats his point he doesnt one nothing but one button builds in poe2, which atm 80% of people are playing one button builds in poe2. He want them to be different, end game its just poe1 with a worst atlas system
Yeah but PoE1 never pretended to be something else whereas in PoE2 we were promised "engaging" combat... lol In the campaign and some late game bosses, combat is awesome... Maps though? One click builds rule, PoE1 on steroids, nothing changed.
@@rich1231 If I had to speculate, especially given JR's most recent Twitter update on the state of POE1 and 2, is that Maps in POE2 are literally a sandbox for them to test scaling and little more. I cannot fathom that this will be what the end game looks like at release, but instead is something they continue to iterate on. But in order to ship the game into EA, they needed -something- for us to do once the campaign was over. Regardless, I think some of the criticisms are fair, I just find the standard to be unrealistic for a game more or less in alpha development.
The actual main point they wanted to address in PoE2 was the one thing that is complete and utter dogshit in PoE1, which is the combat, and they succeeded in that as proven by everyone loving acts 1-3. I don't disagree with most of his points, but honestly what he should focus on is the fact that this Early Access is really just acts 1,2 and 3, and then a bunch of other rushed shit slapped on so they don't have to delay another 1-2years. What we are reviewing is acts 1-3. Everything else might as well not be considered part of the EA. They worked on this endgame for like 3 months total.
a lot of these big streamers don't really like playing the games, they just want to see number go up, and if it isn't going up as much they won't like it
He comes off VERY doomposty with this. And I genuinely dont understand the "what has changed" point he made. Like omg you mean to tell me when there was a good 3 weeks time off during christmas + new year nothing was happening in terms of development? I think he might be onto something with this one. Plus GGG for the last couple of years now have been pretty clear about wanting PoE 2 to be and feel different from PoE 1. They left PoE 1 up and running so people not happy with PoE 2 could just go back to play that one. Its barely been 2 months give them some fucking breathing room doomers.
yeah.. if you play the game you would actually realize its the same god damn game, but dumbed down.. the things that they were telling us the game was gonna bring dont exist.. "meaningful combat/Harder combat" was the one and its literally not a thing in poe2, in fact i'd say the game is easier and less demanging than poe1
"Its barely been 2 months give them some fucking breathing room doomers." We've gotten insane content updates basically every 3 months for years and years, along with QoL changes and hotfixes/some minor changes during the leagues. Expecting some changes, for what is their primary focus currently at the pinnacle of spotlight and attention to the game after 2 very dull months in terms of updates is not insane. They've also had 10+ years of PoE development and PoE2 was announced in 2020. Expecting them to have some content mapped out or to make some additions to the EA game that is very new content reliant is not insane. GGG being abnormally quiet about changes also isn't reassuring. I'm not saying they won't make massive changes and introduce tons of content -- I'm extremely optimistic about the game's future -- but calling everyone a doomer for critiquing after 2 months isn't any healthier.
Not really. Poe2 was going to be an expansion. They started pushing Poe in the direction to meet up with poe2. Then they suddenly popped up going oh it's going to be a while completely different game
23:00 idk last build I played used like all the buttons available... Ice Nova self cast, Frostbolt self cast, Arcanist Brand, Sigil of Power, Arcane Cloak, Flame Dash, Blessing Aura, maybe a couple things I can't remember off the top of my head but yeah. Almost all the builds I've played recently use at least 3 buttons all the time. I think Lily is definitely on the copium hard here.
Buttons that are situational buffs and/or big damage push buttons are not the same as actual 2-3 button builds. Pressing Sigil of Power when you find a rare you need to dps down is not the same thing as pressing gas arrow into detonating arrow. Those two skills interact with each other in a way that creates new gameplay opportunities because it doesnt necessarily have to be detonating arrow to explode the gas cloud nor does it have to be gas arrow to produce the gas cloud. The combinatorics of PoE2 simply have no analog to PoE, and earnestly saying that situational buff buttons are the same thing is incredibly dishonest.
Yeah, My build has so many buttons that I had to practice the sequence so that I wouldn't die boss fights and pinnacle content. Hit x(weapon swap) -- middle mouse -- hit R -- hit E -- hit Q(auto weapon swap) -- hit Left Click --- Hit back button on mouse --- hit Q --- hit left click. LOL... Not to mention that when I make a 700% map to ensure I am getting around 3 fragment drops from pinnacle bosses.. I have to be so fucking careful. I need to understand what the white, magic, and rare mobs do and dodge and play around their mechanics. If I don't I die. I fucking love this game and I played POE 1 since 2013 and have over 3,000 hours. Ben is just going to be a poe 2 hater because some of the community never wanted this game and just wants Poe 1.. which they can have.. I will never be going back to POE 1.. POE 2 is too fucking good.
Not to mention that there is not a single one button build in PoE1 as all of them use some movement skill. Want to see what real one button build is just roll Monk lol 🤣🤣🤣
I played Baldurs Gate 3 EA and it was sosososososo much better on release, expecting same with PoE 2. Base of game is very strong - you add some balance, more skills, good atlas mechanics etc and it will be great. My only hope is that game really doesnt become right-click-1shot-screen, even now PoE 2 is great and im playing alot of it
I think its kinda stupid to want faster drastic changes from a glorified beta test that's only existed for 2 months. I think its crazier when the studio has been pretty transparent on their patch cadence, and desire to save major systemic overhauls for an economic reset to get the full scope of balance rather than play whackamole with player power when everyone is nearing endleague. I think its even stupider to just assume things won't improve over the next year+ of development, as if every element of the *early development build* is somehow set in stone 2 months in.
I remember the first time playing poe back in the days, I quit so fast it was trash couple years later came back and never left since. We need to give them time to polish the game it's not a copy paste of Poe1
@@Stainlesssteele4 the atlas is shit and they seem to have a hard stance of keeping it . There is just so many choices they made that’s weird and unappealing. I’ll stay in Poe1 if we ever get a new patch . But tbh I think my time in Poe will be over by the end of year
Yeah poe2 will get improvements while they abandon PoE1 like a stepchild as they're doing. PoE2 is awful at the moment and they just left the first game that people love to rot.
@frozenphreak7528 Petulant, knee jerk reaction to a short production delay. You'll still log on when 3.26 drops and pretend like nothing happened, just like the rest of the obnoxious redditors acting like the world is ending because they have to play other video games for a few months.
I can't wait to see what all those ??? skill/support gems are gonna be, I like making fun none meta builds but there isn't that much stuff to really think out of the box yet. I'm working on a warrior that uses the monk spinning attack with my shouts so I can spin to win.
My main issue with poe2 is it ended being move forward 2 steps, press 1 or maybe 2 buttons, and that was the gameplay loop for the entire thing. Occasionally I'd have to fight a big hit from a boss but that was it.
Pretty much. The 3 acts and bosses were fun, I don't expect builds to get too crazy by that point, but once I got into maps nothing changed and maps were horrendously dull to me. Especially without map bosses, I think I barely made it to T8 maps before I just made a bunch of new characters instead
The cool part is they can change this. I think that would be more dependent on scaling. From my 60 hours in POE1, I don’t remember a time where I pressed more than one button outside of buffing. POE2, I went through the entire campaign doing that and feeling good. So hopefully they change that to scale well into late game. If not, then I’ll feel significantly worse about POE2, but the fact that they started to move into that direction makes me hopeful.
95% of dev time has been spent on level 1-40. this is why 99% of uniques are low level "trash/leveling uniques", this is why life and armor feels pretty good early game and falls completely apart when you start getting close to endgame. this is why the atlas passive tree is absolutely barebones. it's not really fair to complain about endgame when they clearly had to poop that out within a few months just to give people an endgame gameplay loop, it's like we're pretending poe1 hasn't had an ENTIRE DECADE of revisions to the endgame. poe1's endgame at one point was farming act 3 dominus for the highest ilvl bases they literally just need more time, people being this hysterical and "doomerpilled" over something so obvious is ridiculous. i think the one thing people can be doomerpilled about is the crafting (greater essences are probably 10x more rare than they intend though), i personally like how poe2 makes bases very valuable as this was one of my biggest complaints about poe1, crafting is trivial and completely broken, though i know the majority of people prefer poe1 crafting however, i do agree that the gem support system is a bit odd right now, but i've always hated how gem links/sockets work in poe1
Well first off the scope changed. From it being an expansion to a separate game. Also they obviously start with the campaign so that’s where most of the polish is. The endgame was thrown together because they weren’t even working in it until recently because they knew ppl would want to see at least some endgame in early access.
I understand from player's perspective it feels like it's been 2 months without much change, but realistically it's been few weeks for GGG due to Christmas break. Bad timing for sure. Also I have a feeling that a lot of the changes they need to make aren't small numerical changes but fundamental system changes, which will happen slowly even for EA
POE 2 just needs more content. When more leagues get added and more map tilesets the game will just keep getting better. GGG has always been able to get a lot of content added at a rapid pace compared to other companies. A new improved blight mechanic alone will make the game so much more fun.
no its not content that is the problem.. the core game is just not what it should be.. in what way is it different from poe1 outside of you having less of everything? add all of that you're missing and its basically poe1, but then that begs the question what is the point of this game?
Agree up to the blight part... yuck but that's why poe 1 is great so many things for people to do what they enjoy, PoE 2 will get there. I agree with Ben if you are following a guide or playing what's broken combat is meaningless. I played a off Meta frost sorc no archmage no grim feast and T1 zesht fight was like 3 minutes and it was the most fun I've had in any PoE game with the exception of beating izaro for my final ascendancy for the 1st time.
It needs far more than just content. A core issue with the game is that they brought in a ton of PoE1 stuff, rather than bringing in stuff for PoE2. Furthermore, for many systems that didn't work originally in PoE1, they brought them back in that original state, hoping they can change it better this time than they did in PoE1. And that's why stuff breaks down so badly in the end game, as well as why we have horrible systems like how armour works. They need to yoink out the PoE1 stuff and replace it with things meant for PoE2. They need to cap how crazy player power can go, again, to fit the vision they stated for PoE2, and so the game doesn't turn into PoE1. They need to step away from the trading as the main way to get gear. Because the campaign appeals to a lot of people. The end game? Not so much. Basically, the "why does this its own game?" question is pretty relevant, because they've brought over too much of PoE1's design, including many of its worst parts.
Lily. You acknowledge later in the video that "meaningful combat" doesn't really exist, nor would you really want it to in top-down ARPG's. And you are 100% correct about this. That is for games like Dark Souls. But that is what Ben meant when he said FUNDAMENTAL CORE DESIGN choices. Many of the things they went into PoE 2 trying to do, AKA the philosophy of the game, was broken from the start. This is why some of us have little faith in the game, as devs can fix issues, but they may not really see these things as issues, but choices. You are right that the currency system will improve over time but that is obviously not what he was talking about.
finally a "react to ben's take" that adds something to it. I agree that asking for so much so early on in PoE2 is a bit excessive - like you said PoE1 took a while to grow from a shit game to one of the best games ever
How many people here played the poe 1 closed beta? When "endgame" was farming fellshrine ruin? Comparing the two games at beta launch poe 2 is so far ahead where poe 1 was it's insane.
Because way too many people have stupid expectations. Poe1 has had 10 years to cook. They slapped the end game together to make it functional so that people like ben can break it and the devs can polish it to feel like act 1-3 which is the content that has been polished to excellence. They dont want poe2 to be like poe1 so it makes sense they dont just copy and paste poe1 into poe2. If the game is in a poor state once its considered fully launched and becomes f2p then i can understand. But we are what, a month in a half into early access and people are losing their shit that the game is not perfect.
They've had money, time, and knowledge from what has worked and not worked in Poe, and used Poe as a test bed for some of the ideas. Poe last few years were partially poe2 beta in some ways Even if they ignored things learned from poe
I have and i disagree completely. Poe1 was a game made by some newb devs with no money and came out in a market that had d2 as the golden standard and d3 as the failure. To a market hungry for an arpg that literally had nothing. PoE2 is in the making for the last 6 years by a studio that is supporting and developing the best arpg in the market for the last 12 years, that has tncent money backing them up and a team of experienced devs that have solely focused on one single game that is 80% the same. Which by the way, they have been using not only as inspiration but also "free" beta testing ground for the last 2 years. Ignoring the underling circumstances in which poe1 and poe2 betas happen and doing a straight up 1:1 comparison to conclude that poe2 has more stuff in it is not the correct approach.
@@TheHollowBlade yes and they had this experience to make the PoE 2 better , they had testers and staff for PoE 2 , people gave their opinion about the game how it should be and somehow GGG ignored it and went their own so called '' VISION '' , also seems Chris Wilson rly wants the game to be like Diablo , as he has mentioned many times that he wants it to feel as in his old Diablo days , but now its some kind of a Diablo , Last Epoch and Dark Souls inbreed , while PoE 1 is a perfection , i love the looting , the fast-paced gameplay , the crafting , while Diablo in its old days has nothing near of what the PoE offers and still Chris Wilson somehow wants it to be like that game .
When he said "its been a whole two months" I knew his head was in the wrong place. It takes more than two months (one of which was a major holiday month) to solve the problems he's got with it. His critique is not wrong. Its just a matter of time and his expectations. I do agree with a point he didnt put into words, but Zizeran did. GGG already learned some of these lessons.
Sorry Lily but Ben is spot on here. I just don't think you've realized it yet or maybe you never will. I was where Ben is now a month ago. It's very clear to me that regardless of changes in Poe 2, the base fundamental choices are flawed and you can't really fix that. Lets be real for a sec....GGG has a hard-on for an 20+ year old game that isn't all that relateable in this day and age. You can die alone on that hill on thinking layouts are fine, I can promise you that you are among a small group who thinks that from what I've seen online. I will never play Poe 2 again, of that...I'm certain.
Give me a list of all these "Base fundamental core choices that can't be changed." I want to see them. I keep hearing about them but no one ever lists any. Btw you type like a boomer lmao
@@sc065the point is that realistically they aren't going to have the time or resources to radically change fundamental systems like movement or the way the skill gem system works.
@@Jaguar-s7f What "fundamental" changes need to be made? What does "realistically" even mean here? I'm curious which ones are necessary that would be so difficult, you're being vague. If we choose movement/skill gems, what exactly needs changing? I hope what you think needs changes aligns with everyone else who is unhappy with PoE 2. If you're so certain of the amount of time and effort the changes would require (a very difficult topic in software development), then you certainly should be able to list the exact issues that need fixing and how they'll be fixed. Otherwise you'd be ballparking tens, hundreds of variables you know nothing about.
PoE1 has gone through so many drastic changes--reworks, introductions and even complete removal of systems over the course of its existence. I think a little more faith in the developers is owed.
brother all those drastic changes and reworks that happened in poe got fucking reverted in poe2, so many mechanics and systems downgraded and backtracked to dogshit level
@@ArenetheEtera they've got years of experience, you'd think they'd implement the good thing they learned from poe1 and add some unique mechanics to their new game, but it's just shit tbh. played the campaign on 4 different characters and had a lot of fun but the endgame and crafting mechanics are shit, also the trials are trash.
The links needs a rework or something that encourages experimenting. I agree with Ben, like the first 4 links are easy to try out. The drop rates for 3 links are high and solid. The 4 links could use a drop rate buff, but the exchange sells it for relatively cheap so it's manageable. The problem is the 5th link. I understand it is supposed to be like 6 linking in Poe1, but the difference is that there are multiple ways of getting one, random socketing and linking it, drops, craft, etc. In Poe2, you have 2 choices corrupt the gem and lose out on plus level or the ultra-rare, more expensive than 2 divines perfected jeweler orb. That's it. The gems can't naturally drop as links unless they add that into the uncut skill gems, like 4 link uncut spirit/skill lv X.
He answered his own "why does poe2 exist" question himself during his rant: new player experience. PoE1 is dogshit for new players whether PoE1 players want to admit it or not --although he acknowledges as much. PoE2 does a much better job of easing in players into the game. It's not perfect by any means (there needs to be a quest that explains crafting, essences and such) but it's so much better than it is in PoE1.
The jump from campaign bosses to endgame content is a huge letdown. They promised a greater focus on boss fights, but the endgame doesn't live up to that at all. The problem is that the boss animations from the campaign are still the same in the endgame, but by that point, we're so much faster that they don’t pose a real threat. Even if their survivability were increased, it wouldn't change much because the game’s pace at that stage completely outpaces their attacks. The whole ‘God-like’ power we’re supposed to have doesn’t match the challenge these bosses provide. All of this makes the game less fun to play. Without those dynamic and methodical fights that keep you engaged, the endgame just loses its appeal.
This is a take only someone who's played thousands of hours in a game can have, he's a little jaded and he's not wrong about those points but thinking that things can't change is just that sort of take you can only have from frustration.
yeah he for sure is jaded and its odd that HIM out of all people think that the game just wont change after ten years of POE1 and where that started. There is literally no logic behind that statement and purely a take based off of anger.
You know how it is hard to remove power from players without them having a meltdown. This seems like the game change equivalent of that. Like he has some good points but he absolutely seems jaded
@@xxCHAOTICKxx maybe people don't want to wait 10 years for the game to be good, while they keep making less and less content for the game that was actually good. so now they are stuck trying to enjoy a half finished product. and its actually crazy that u guys think a game in 2012 with 20 people in a garage is a fair comparison to a game that : 1- is a sequel 2- already been in development for over 8 years (2019 act 1 was already done btw and they said it's been in development for years) by an AAA studio 3- they have all the info they needed from the 1st game. whats also crazy is how u guys have selective hearing. if you actually try to listen to what he says, his problems that are making him "doompilled" are stuff that are design decisions. like the well. like the gearing/ crafting systems. and maybe you guys need to consider that him playing more than you, means YOU will eventually run into the same problems so they devs do need to hear that. it's almost as if it's the same thing where everyone was saying "stop complaining game is good" when they were in act 2 and the people were complaining about endgame, then those same people come and complain when they get there "omg endgame is not fun". his video was made on his stream while playing ssfhc in poe1 and for his audience because people kept asking him. it's not a scripted video review so yes he is talking about his "feelings and experience" to his audience. ofc its gonna sound whiny. if it annoys you don't watch it. and if you actually like the game please for the love of god stop brushing every complaint as "its EA", "EA" is there so people can complain then the devs get info and they change stuff... and also maybe people want to play the game before they are on their death beds so they say what annoys them so it gets changed. crazy i know..
I feel like people who don't program for a living have 0 idea how hard and time intensive game development actually is. Its better if they take their time and make meaningful changes than rush things and end up with a worse outcome. That is.. if they aren't being pressured by the company, which usually happens and sucks.
@@Gaminggamer45 POE 2 was made for casual new players not veterans. After 18k hours in poe1 and 300 in poe2 i can say POE 2 is dogshit , going back to poe1. Casuals can enjoy it , at least we hope to get every 4-5 months a new league in poe1
@@C0nfusi0n0FTheHighest_Orda poe1 is immensly more casual bro, poe2 is fundamentally a barder and more demanding game as its a lot harder to dumb it down to "point and click adventjre" difficulty Poe1 has near zero mechanical skill compared to poe2 and thats a fact. You need knowledge skill for poe1 and thats just a result of its sheer amou t of content, o which poe2 will inevitably catch up, if anytbing poe1 is doomed due to how braindead its gameplay is in mapping, id say its like subway surfer gameplay under some random tiktok bht subway sjrfer can actually get pretty hard
All his complaints are valid up to the point where he says the game is doomed. It's way way way too soon to call that. People entering early access expecting the world. Then, they burn themselves out playing 300 hours of an incomplete game. Instead of saying, this game has potential and taking a break, they go full doomer. It's completely illogical, but I understand why people would react that way.
It honestly sounds like Ben is just crying without using critical thinking. It’s like all his brain power is in making Poe builds. Half his complaints are dumb. His take on it being early access but not having constant changes is not only low iq brain rot probably from zooming in poe1 but he just ignores the fact they stopped making constant changes because people were mad about constant balance changes
Ben's perspective is skewed pretty heavily by the grind. His criticism is valid, because his perspective is authentic, but I don't think it is representative of even a plurality of players, let alone the majority.
I agree whith most what Ben says and most my friends who played POE1 for years have similiar opinions. Majority of POE2 player are new players who dont have like 500+ h in POE1 and dont see how much simplified verion of POE1 its sequel is.
It's wild to see someone so doom and gloom about PoE2 if they were a big fan of PoE1. Does no one remember how bad PoE1 was compared to how good it became? Where did all of the good will for GGG go in 2 months? It will get better. I think even with the patch they made in 2 weeks the game got significantly better.
5:02 true. there's just a type of people that magically thinks if "I play alot" then you "need to update alot". but the truth is you playing someone else's creation. you're just a "user". it's just people self centered so a point they can't see anything 5 cm away from them
i think alot of the issues poe 2 has comes from design choices like chasing rares to finish a map or crafting being identify with extra steps the fact that they think those mechanics are fun worries me
agree with a lot of Ben's critiques but this melodramatic whining is just ridiculous. "i dont know why POE2 exists" come on. POE1 vets really cannot get it through their heads just how offputting and overwhelming POE1 is to new players. Both in perception and reality. The playernumbers speak for themselves. POE1 is a game where there really isn't that much more room to do much, development wise. It's a solved game. It's the best ARPG out there but it's bloated, clunky, dated, unintuitive, and is built on an engine Jonathan coded in a garage. It is extremely obvious why POE2 exists and why they wanted to make a new game.
The thing is it doesnt feel like a new game at endgame and thats the main problem, it just feels like a worse poe1, they copy and pasted mechanics into it that dont work well. If they wanted to make a new game then they should have made new mechanics that work for the core of the game.
@@quincestopher8892it’s base game. Leagues haven’t started and they clearly need test data before implementation… it’s ridiculous to expect them to have more than they currently do. We don’t even know what they have behind the scenes. People need to brake and stop talking. And simply wait for them to release more content. If it sucks, go play a different game.
@@Mduffy-yo6rb Why do the glazers always jump to "more" when its not about the breadth of content available. The problem is what is there is fundamentally not good, and if you've been paying attention to the interviews over the years it all seems very intentional and in line with what Jonathan has been saying.
NGL, I'm not really a part of the PoE community, I dunno who this guy is, but it sounds like he knows a lot about Path of Exile and almost nothing about making games. He mentions things like Delve in a list of things that people can do when it comes to crafting/obtaining items, but in my incredibility limited experience of PoE, I played Delve league, and my understanding is, that mechanic did not exist in the game until that league. So doesn't it feel appropriate to compare base PoE to base PoE2? or is he expecting every mechanic from PoE1 to be launched with PoE2?
I agree with a lot that he says, but I really don't want poe2 to turn into poe1 with the issue of speed. I like slow paced combat but the map size makes slow paced characters feel horrible to play. Also, the reason why GGG hasn't done many changes is because Xmas and New Years happened immediately after they launched EA. Hopefully after the next big patch they release they will start cranking out new additions, and faster paced game changes.
I disagree saying that poe2 has many combos. Bell is essentially a damage and aoe buff, staggering palm is a buff, the skill that culls for power charge so you can use charged staff is also a buff. So it's 4 skills just for buffs and 1 skill to actually attack. Maybe some people will use the wind skill to get enemies primed for stun for easier staggering palm, but it's all around adding buffs to just one skill anyways
@sassysaddles9981 Yeah, both games are mostly about using other skills/mechanics to buff the main skill, or to unlock it's use. It does depend on how you look at it, as to some it means "combos" while to me it's just buffs for main skills with extra steps.
His frustration stems from these issues not being addressed at all yet, but GGG is at a point where vastly changing this stuff is kinda late to do it willy nilly. The major changes will come in some sort of new league or reset of some sort. They said they won't wipe but alluded to a fresh start of some sort, so consider it a league, idk what they'll call it but that's what I'm expecting.
I feel like people are missing a huge issue here that I dont really see being said. The early access was only supposed to be 6~ months. The game is not only nowhere near finished, but like Ben said, there has been no update for 2 months. If the game needs to be tested and new characters and items need to be added, imagine how far the game is from being finished. If it is to be completed in 6 months, I cant imagine the end game design changing much at all prior to release. They can add a few more systems, but how much would it change the inherent design flaws of the game?
100% truth. The acts are great, mapping.... I have to force myself to even do them at all. I'm playing the way GGG wants me to... slower, more deliberate but maps do not seem to be made for that... seems like the only way to play is clear the whole screen before a white mob can one tap ya with a skill from off screen. God don't even get me started about the layouts and lack of clarity for mobs.
As many have said time and time again. The end game is basically in alpha state. The reason the campaign feels so good is because thats what has been fully ironed out while the end game has not. This is early access. Odds are that the end game will end up feeling as good as acts 1-3 eventually. We are missing 50% of the classes, weapon options are missing, skills and support skills are missing. This is like complaining that a 3000 piece puzzle does not look at all like the picture when you put 2 of the 3000 pieces together.
@@TheHollowBlade The other weapon types missing doesn't excuse the sorry state mace is in. It doesn't excuse how broken the likes of Archmage is. Axes existing won't fix either of those issues. And end-game-wise, they've started down a path. How much can they deviate from it now? Because a lot of the issues are deeply ingrained in various systems. You just don't realize it as much during the campaign. You lack the points. You lack access to certain types of gear. And you're going through the story, so you're a bit more focused on story progression than being crazy powerful. It's only once the lack of direction goes away, and you're left with map clearing, mostly for trade purposes, that everything becomes about speed and power. But at the same time, there is still a lot of imbalance even at act 1 levels. Basically, the end game is pretty bad, in part because, yes, they brought over a bunch of PoE1 ideas not properly adapted to PoE2, but beyond that, there are core issues with the design that aren't related to "the end game", yet here they are.
being colorblind in this game is a fucking curse fr...you can barely see shit in some maps. i love the game, and i played poe1 a bit too...but seeing some things implemented in poe2 the way they are, you just wondering "what the fuck were they thinking"
@ there are lots of support skills missing too. Who knows if there are some skills coming that will make mace much better. And maces and crossbows sucking is a fair complaint, but to doom and gloom like poe2 is a dead game because build variety is bad at this time is so cringe. We all signed up for EARLY ACCESS, and the devs made it very clear that the game would be funky. We can doom and gloom if the game is total ass once everything in the game is complete and its fully launched. But its been 2 months..
Imo one of the biggest problem regarding maps(aside from the map size being huge for no reason) is that the sense of progress is BORING AND SLOW AS FUCK HOLY HELL. Like in poe1 you need to beat 101 maps with different layouts(excluding unique maps) to "complete" the atlas. In poe2 the same 101 maps would take you to tier 10-11 and most of these maps would be repeated. On top of that, there's a chance that by the time you reach tier 15-16 in poe2 you are still playing with base mechanics because you didn't got lucky with bosses so you have 0 juiced mechanics. Meanwhile in poe1 by the time you are in tier 10 you can already have at least half of your atlas points and can already have some mechanics being juiced. The way endgame maps are structured right now completely killed my will to play poe2. It feels pointless and the fact that's just one button being pressed all the time is even worse because then I can just play poe1... In fact my builds in poe2 are even more one-sided than the ones I played in poe1 like ben said. FFs in my AFK CWS RF Chieftain build press the same amount of buttons that I do on my deadeye, invoker and stormweaver TOGETHER. For these 3 I only press one button each, so 3 buttons(which are all RMB or LMB) plus spacebar for dodge. For the afk chieftain it's one for shield dash, one for penitance curse, one for flamedash/frostblink, one for vaal breach.
As bad as melee feels in poe2 it is worse in poe 1. There's no feeling of impact in poe1. I don't think we can go back. Edit: complete aside, being to mark item bases with item level for affinity tabs would be amazing
Exactly poe1 melee is awful I get people love the game and I do too, but at this point I have no desire to play any more of it and poe2 will be my arpg going forward. I think people who no life one game end up just wanting everything to be that game
@@via_negativa6183 I’ve seen this with a lot of people who played one game for tons of time. They’re so used to it that they think any game working differently is just bad.
For most of quarterstaff skill, yeah. I really wish there is a thing like Tempest fury and Ice Strike in PoE1. But for most Mace skill, current(3.25) PoE1 melee is definitely way better than that. I start with Sunder in PoE1 this league, it's feel uncomparable better to use in PoE1 than PoE2.
It’s called the honey moon period, people have good reasons to be disappointed by poe2. Most of the issues exist because GGG doesn’t know that difficulty is not just unfair on-death effects, cheap one-shit mechanics and overpowered ground effects (invisible fire ground killed my lvl 90 monk within 3 seconds, 4500 eHP)
Anecdotally speaking: i think PoE1 players are MASSIVELY underestimating how big of a deal it is POE2 exists to non POE1 players. The amount of ppl i know who tried or are actively still trying poe2 that woule never touch poe1 with a stick is massive. THAT ALONE makes it worth for GGG to invest in.
So what? For a lot of people Diablo Immortal is big deal and worth investing into. The game is trash that is the problem, that some normies find it a big deal is irrelevant
Other people have said this, but with the speed that mobs rush you, it makes using a lot of combos unrealistic
yep, mobs movement speed is way to fast.
Combine chronomancers slow, temporal rift(+2other curses) and hinder and you can do some combos... Yeah not realistic for most players since I use that "combo" in party play and do 0dps.
@@randomencounter8984 Thats exactly the problem, mobs are balanced around you slowing them down. Like what if you dont slow them and they open the combat on you - its horrible feeling at that point.
Reduce mobs speed, nerf slows, so its relativly the same, unless you have no slows -thus slower monsters.
I use combos all the time. Space bar + left click
@@Frey_64honestly the one thing I hate is the speed of monsters in maps. Why is everything so fast?
I assumed they gave up on the "support gems aren't damage multipliers" idea because I don't think it can work. Like how many things can you do to an ability that you would give a shit about unless it makes it do more damage, even in a non-obvious way?
You can make it bigger (better clear), chain/fork/pierce/more proj (better clear), make the skill CC mobs (actual good utility), become a trap/balista/mine/totem (probably ends up being a damage increase). Basically everything else you can do will end up being a damage increase (even though the gem doesn't like literally say "more damage" on it). Like if a skill shotguns, then more projectiles or more aoe for bigger overlap is a damage multiplier. Make the skill apply exposure? damage multiplier. make the skill shock or apply wither? damage multiplier. pierce/duration on a skill (like spark) that gains damage scaling from those? damage multipier. I can go on but you get the picture.
So what happens if you create this support gem system and give it to the players? Well... every skill that can use one of these "non-damage-multipler-supports" in a way that actually DOES give damage becomes "a good/viable" skill. everything that does not? dogshit skill. If a support gem doesn't make you do more damage, clear better, or have better uptime (such as putting a melee skill on a totem so you can still dps while dodging boss mechs, etc) then why would a player even use it? I assume they either thought about it in great depth or even just made it and tried it and came to this conclusion.
But wouldn't you agree that a more proj support is more interesting than a flat 20% dmg increase?
Simulacrum monster level 82 is everything but meaningfull combat. you get jumped on, stunned, freeze, slowed, yot got 10 debuff and cant see anything.
i feel like im traversing the paris catacombs every time i play
I feel like maps being boring (among other things), is a big reason I stopped playing.
Other things too but still, and so much content is missing anyway.
@HiddenStr3ngth im loving the game my biggest complaint is i just want to see what type of damage killed me because my pc is shit so half the time idk what to build against. Also i feel there should be an option skip story mode for alt characters because i have only so much time to play.
@@SmokeCignal wont matter if your capped and most people are. so knowing what damage killed you doesnt change much.
@_AriseChicken ah yeah i never thought of that
One of the most special parts of poe 1 to me is how much freedom you have in personalizing your endgame experience so you are doing exactly what you want to do. The rng associated with tower precursor tablets makes me want to rush the maps in range that I dislike so that the maps that I want to run have all the activities and juice. The process is so anti-fun to me. I also don't think I like meta mods being tied to tradeable items. I would much rather have those be a set price immune to the trade economy.
Yeah I can deal with a lot of the shit in POE2 but the removal of player choice in mapping and introduction of more RNG just kills it for me.
I do the oposite, rush the good ones first.. then make the bad ones good using tablets
Brothas , there is no endgame in poe2 yet tô criticize
i mean divines can be traded an fluctuate in value soooo
Personalize? You mean copy and paste in POB
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Lily doesn't know
Drinking game: take a shot everytime lily says "i don't know" after the ben react
I died
Respectfully, I don't think they have the team size they need to do both games right now. I don't think they have managed expectations very well
Pretty much this.
They're fighting each other and killing both games at once.
They should've never came up with PoE2 or just flat out launched PoE2 and told PoE1 that it'll be shutting down in 6 months and that's it.
Same shit happened to Division and both games sucked for it.
It's not even about man power but also about key minds being split apart.
Hopefully they get their act together and drop PoE1 ( sad for veterans but needed for progression ).
@@antekordicwhat are you basing these assumptions off of?
Totally agree, I think they are swamped now and they still have to put out PoE 1 leagues and rebalance that game after the past 3 leagues
@@janitorizampedagreed, i really think they are disappointing both poe1 and 2 fans with how slow they are now
ok? whose fault is that? lol
the mistake a lot of defenders are making is that they're trying to compare poe1 in its infancy to a 2025 state of gaming where expectations aren't not what they were when poe1 launched. poe2 should NOT be in this ancient state of infancy where learned lessons are not already implemented.
Poe2 needs to start barebones without the bloat. 60% of the game is missing and it’s in early beta… of course it’s going to be compared to Poe beta.
@@Azmodaii are you so dense that you don't think people understand that this is early access and that things can be patched? do you really think that we don't understand that? you're missing the biggest piece of this entire thing = it should NOT be this far behind when we've already learned many of these lessons. is it hard for you to understand that the barebones state of the game should be WAY better? we don't want to wait league after league, year after year for 10 years to go by so the game can FINALLY be what it should already be very close to in terms of fundamentals.
if you're so concerned about bloat, then why didn't they abandoned the poe1 season mechanics entirely and start fresh?! again, your theory doesn't really fit the reality
@@herbstomp003 do you not know how to talk to people? What is wrong with you?
The game is absolutely fine for a game that’s missing half the playable classes, 24 of the ascendancies (not to mention at least half of the current ones will most definitely be reworked) and half of the acts, which also means we are missing a lot of the maps and bosses that will be playable in the end game when it comes out, like the endgsme is a tacked on concept that is there to serve testing purposes, even jon and mark said plemty of times in thr last interview that it will change, that they are not married to any of this in any way.
As for why they have mechanics from
Poe1… its because its something they had on hand to mess about with, to see how the players break the game so they can fix it.
If this were blizzard or some other corpo developer with a bad track record, I’d understand, but GGG have been receptive to so many things in my thousands of hours played, that I am confident they’ll get things right.
And yeah, people do not understand that this is a beta and that things can and will be patched… are you blind and deaf? Pretty much all of the complaints about the game is solved with more content, which is to come, and people are acting like everything is set in stone when they’ve already changed portals for bosses and added tablets for map bosses.
The game will look entirely different in 6 months (let alone at release in a year or so), you just need to see how things have turned oit and continue to turn out with poe 1.
@@Azmodaii ah, so you're functionally Re-Tar Ted. got it.
SAY IT AGAIN FOR ALL THE COPERS IN THE BACK.
Game is literally almost done, they'll just add classes, weapons, supports, and change a few things and call it a day mark my words.
Blows my mind they regressed so hard on many lessons learned in Poe 1
Most of the issues ARE intentional design choices though, that's the problem.
doesnt mean they cant be changed
@@PopersIRL They can, and they will. GGG has admitted some of these are design flaws in the most recent interview. But it is also fair to be concerned about this.
@@Sidnv of course! ggg might be off their gourd with these "intentional design choices", but theyre also extremely receptive to feedback. so many people complain by saying the design of the game wasnt an accident and was very intentional....as if that means theyll never change it
@@PopersIRL True, but most of them were already solved in PoE1 and they have made them better in last 3-4-5 years, but PoE2 developers completely ignored all of it and still made the same mistakes. That's the problem for me.
@Lolmiq and the problem for me. but theres a high chance they get fixed anyway. Ik it shouldnt have to be fixed in the first place but im not gonna let it bother me much
You say crafting isn't a design decision but they removed Scouring and Alteration orbs. That's a decision they made to slow down progression of gear intentionally. That's all it does.
No, it also makes everything more tedious and annoying, like having to stash a lot of white bases... In one hand, it's cool that white items can hold some value, but if that's the tradeoff, it's not worth it imho. The problem is even compounded further with what Ben said about the reforge bench... Why so much hassle?
Yeah they very obviously want to extend player time to increase microtransaction purchase odds and easier justifying of spending money on the game. I do believe it will backfire and people will get tired of the devs making them suffer just because. Right now, the endgame, at best, is a mediocre slop RNG ridden clownfiesta that is overly punishing and the reward is mostly non existant. You just pick orbs and buy better gear through trade (if you're not one of these SSF guys that are just amazing at the game and know everything about it). It's just miserable for the sake of being miserable and making you spend more time doing everything.
Good move on their part then!
Removing scours and alterations orbs makes white items on the ground interesting. You can't just buy / get one base and go with that forever. A high lvl base can suddenly be flippin important. Just look at popular crafting / chance bases right now. In the long run I also think this is a good thing, because it means that "failed crafts" will be put up for sell, because they may not be what YOU want, but could be what other people needing half your gear is after. I.e it would make more semi awesome gear available to people, because it's not just "rolled over" every time.
Crafting right now is lacking options, that's for sure. But isn't that somewhat to be expected? I only wish they'd increase the dropchances of omens / essences by several thousand percent though!!
TLDR: Ben wants POE 1.5
ah yes like every single people who complain about poe2
Man is really complaining about reforging taking slightly more clicks and and other trivial crap lol.
For real, some people just want to hold W and one attack button, in a map that’s a straight hallway, have all loot auto-sent to bank, brain off cookie clicker mode.
Literal arpg degen brainrot.
@@demonia352 All my friends dropped and everybody said the same that game is shit in end game
It doesn't seem like we've seen the video 🤣 He literally said why does Poe 2 exist? If only just going to be a cookie-clicker, it doesn't make sense, we already have Poe 1
@ I'm sorry your friends don't enjoy it, but most of my friends are still playing or played untill "finishing" the current content.
So much for anecdotal evidence.
If we look to objective metrics, steam charts speak vary much in favor of PoE2, too. PoE2 got still player numbers on Steam alone, that you would normally expect in week 1 of a new PoE1 league.
I think Ben has good points but ignoring the fact that it could get better and saying it is just doomed is a bit of an overreaction, it's early access and headed in a good direction imo. Idk any other devteam that listens to its players as much as GGG. On his point of wanting to run the same map you said you don't like that. In PoE1 there's always the option to run different maps if you want to OR you could run the same map over and over. In PoE2 it's not even an option so I'd say that isn't really a matter of opinion. Things will magically get better with more content bc half of his complaints were about lack of options, I'm not sure how he doesn't see that
he said the current end game design is doomed. he didn't say the game in general is doomed. the question is whether his concern and sentiment is warranted, and obviously it's just a wait and see situation.
he just shooting his shots while the target is out in the open. like everyone else is.
He is saying he doesn't like fundamental aspects of the game. Those aren't usually things that will get better with more content, they are deep rooted into the game and define the game. Like the entire game being built around item bases. No re-rolling them, no scour, needing to hoard and 3:1 them. Every crafting system is designed around that, the whole game is balanced around that. You must pick up every single item base and just slam it to see if you randomly get an upgrade. So how do they even add more to the game to improve that if that is their paradigm for getting new items? They can add more ways to randomly slam mods, like maybe fossils, but if they stick with this paradigm then his core issue with remain in the game forever
@@chossmediathe problem is that hes saying those words "fundamental aspects" for example, but a lot of his complaints are not fundamental and can easily be changed and most likely will be changed over time, the gsme is not even close to actual release yet, the endgsme was put together very quickly for ea testing and while i csnt guarantee theyll fix every single issue on releasez you have to let the devs actually work on actual big changes, not these tiny patches we got. Him saying the game is doomed is pure doomsaying and doesnt actually come from a centered, reasonable mindset. Criticize the game, thats actually good, a lot of his criticism i actully hope ggg heeds and use, but not the doomsaying cuz the game isnt poe1
@@chossmedia Fundamental things in PoE1 were fixed the exact same way I'm talking about, crafting in PoE1 when it released was garbage tier, then they added content with crafting currencies and the game got better. The endgame drops and the way crafting has worked in PoE1 has been changed drastically over the years and to act like that's locked in for PoE2 is clearly biased for anyone that's not emotionally invested in this. The game being built around item bases is a secondary issue that is addressed the same way crafting as a whole is addressed. All of the problems he mentions are non issues that are just nit picky bc he cant go fast enough and I agree there should be more options to play how you want but he is objectively wrong that these things will doom the game
i dont like how she has to walk on egg shells because people treat this ben guy like hes jesus christ himself. the amount of times lily said "i dont know" because shes holding back what she really wants to say.
A couple more YEARS of cooking? That’s insane
The game is undercooked, after FIVE-SIX years of development, PoE2 is undercooked. Let that sink in. And we're expecting GGG to (according to them) release the full game by the end of the year. No red flags? Really? None? And GGG already did drop their first big patch, that's what 0.1.1 IS. And if you're not impressed... Sorry. But I guess this is what we have to look forward to.
Ok master game developer
They will probably release full game this year, but it wont be what we wanted.
they're building the framework of the game, if you expected poe 2 to match poe 1's endgame in 1 year of early access development or even 5-6 years of development for a new game you're delusional. poe 1 took 4-5 years of development after it was released to get to a spot that was as amazing as it is.
Hey I wonder if anything happened in those last five years, maybe a massive global event of some kind.
This game won’t even be close to done by the end of the year it’s a joke right now
25:42 the statements are meant to be combined, he is stating that the issue IS NOT JUST the lack of content but the core gameplay. It's 100% apparent the lack of content and things that can be explained by EA will likely improve -- the core components may or may not. This is a misinterpretation, that was the point he made through the entire video almost.
his comment says he doesnt think there is an issue with lack of content, i said i think there is a problem with lack of content in the end game
The jump from campaign bosses to endgame content is a huge letdown. They promised a greater focus on boss fights, but the endgame doesn't live up to that at all. The problem is that the boss animations from the campaign are still the same in the endgame, but by that point, we're so much faster that they don’t pose a real threat. Even if their survivability were increased, it wouldn't change much because the game’s pace at that stage completely outpaces their attacks. The whole ‘God-like’ power we’re supposed to have doesn’t match the challenge these bosses provide.
All of this makes the game less fun to play. Without those dynamic and methodical fights that keep you engaged, the endgame just loses its appeal.
In POE2, endgame combat and more needs to be redesigned and rebalanced. We got an early draft of endgame, and there is good reason why it exists. I hope it looks very different in a year, and it will be very silly to compare to ask why it exists when POE1 did the same thing.
I agree
In my opinion it's a flaw in the whole approach. People don't tend to really care too much about campaign mode in an ARPG. It's something you play through once, then try to optimize ignoring it as much as possible. I haven't followed development too closely, but as I understand it, they put a lot of effort into this campaign early gameplay, and didn't construct the endgame vision yet.
If their focus wasn't on their endgame loop, it's time poorly spent. If they want combat to be more souls like, then the endgame content makes no sense. I just feel like there is an overall lack of greater vision on what this game is supposed to be played like currently.
PoE2 is in a weird state for me. The campaign part is 9.8/10 for me. Sure, it has some minor flaws, but overall it's among my favorite games of all time. I love just about everything about the campaign. It's like a combination between my favorite things - Souls games + D2 and it couldn't be better. But the endgame on another hand...that's a whole different story. The endgame goes from D2+Souls to fucking Vampire Survivors. I just spam my 1 or 2 spells and everything dies before I can even see it. And if you can't kill everything before you can see it, then your build likely sucks and you hardly have any fun. The endgame must be redesigned from the ground up. Everything is too fast, the mobs have too little health so just about every AoE spell is able to be spammed for a successful clear. The players need more defense stats too and a nerf to the damage. The endgame should be like the campaign, but 10-20% faster. Right now it feels like a completely different game in all of the bad ways. PoE2 has the potential to be one of the greatest games ever made, I hope they don't fumble this chance.
itll be unrecognizable in a single digit number of weeks, i bet!
@ Eh, I am not in a hurry. I hope we get there someday. Better late than never.
Saying "the game isn't finished" is an excuse for things like bugs, crashes, balance, lack of content. But most of the things he talks about are fundamentally bad and need complete redesign. I mean how do you work on that game for 4 years having all of the POE1 knowledge and experience and end with this game where none of the systems feel good?
I don’t know if you understand how game development works my friend. Respectfully
You don’t know how game development works or the resources they had/have to put this game out as it is.
You do not know what you are talking about. But you know how to assume and push your expectations because what? GGG owe you something?
Stop assuming and stop being a little sheep.
@@UnderPoverP I don't have first hand knowledge of game development. What is your point?
I'm commenting on the official GGG statements about what they are doing and what their goals are and the current state of the game.
@@UnderPoverP you know shit about it too wtf do you mean, they had all the money all the time all the experince and they made fuck all of it, game is in every way worse than poe 1 apart graphics, ppl just handwave all of it on it being EA or "poe 1 10 years ago was so shit and you expect poe 2 to be so good" Poe 1 came out more than decade ago with no experience or money stop fucking comparing it
because 99% of his complaints are things GGG are adressing? Do you really think they are going to leave endgame as is? do you really think they are going to leave skill gems as is? do you really think they are done with class balance? there are 6 more classes and 24 more ascendency's coming out. I was around for the kickstarter closed beta for poe 1 and the crafting was just as bare bone.
GGG is trying to make a good BASELINE game, for them to build upon for more crafting options and league mechanics and class balances. For everyone to jump on the "OMG ITS SO BAD" train is just the most braindead take
if you prefer running different map layouts rather than running only 1, you can do that in poe1. dont favor a map, or favor many different ones.
the difference is, poe1 lets you choose. 1 map only? there you. dont want that? no problem, you can do that too. the keyword is freedom of choice
And then all the guides tell everyone to run the same few maps. Then everyone complains that it’s boring.
Players optimize the fun out of games. You say you have choice, but the reality is 99% of players choose whatever the most optimal thing is even if it’s less fun.
but I think the issue is, and this is known in all games, if it is not optimal to run multiple maps, you won't do it right? people will optimise the fun out of games. They will optimise the fun out of the combat, that's the goal of the design of these systems right? freedom to do whatever you want isn't always good for the game, if there is a reason why people want to run the same map over and over, then maybe there is a design problem there that can be solved.
You *can* run different layouts but it means you're doing things a lot less efficiently than people who only run the "good" layouts, and players will usually opt for efficiency. This is a case where it's a bit of a false choice. I mean, you could argue that you can still keep running the same layout in POE2 too, that you have that choice. It means not killing the last rare mob and resetting the map each time. You don't want to do that? Well of course you don't, it'd be a lot less efficient because you miss the atlas bonuses on subsequent runs. The same goes for POE1 and running different (worse) layouts.
POE2 mapping system is so much more interesting in my opinion, but then again, I never was a big fan of endless strand/dunes/jungle valley all day long. I always liked the start of the league where I *had* to run every layout to get completion. I don't mind running inefficient underground layouts like dungeon, these maps had cool aesthetics and vibes. But once you reached endgame, there was no reason you'd run them because they were so much less efficient than running a straight line or circle map.
POE2 you can't help but run the less efficient layouts, which means I can run a map like mire or augury and not feel like I'm "bad" for doing so. I genuinely enjoy these maps, I think they're interesting thematically and I like the changeup in how I approach clearing it. I didn't like them before they introduced checkpoints, but with checkpoints they're fine and the "inefficient" layouts just present a puzzle for how to best clear. There's just a lot more variety to mapping in POE2. Some maps will have 100%+ quantity, some maps you have to run with much less to get to another tower. That's okay. Variety is the spice of life, and the downs just make the ups that much more satisfying. POE2 would be so much more boring to me if I was just running sandspit all day.
@@omegaxtrigun The key thing here is choice. You have the choice to optimize the fun out of the game. You have the choice to do an unfun thing for more profit. Most people cap out their builds in the first 3 weeks of a league. Once the first week rush is over min-maxing to the absolute maximum begins to drop off. You aren't severely punished for not minmaxing. Poe 2 however, has no choice.
This is an important point. PoE1 lets you choose. When you have no choice on the maps you run, the baseline map needs to be on Savannah or Sandspit tier. Right now 80%+ of all layouts are completely dogshit and its not helped by the kill all rare backtracking dogshit.
I guess Lily loves Poe2. Personally it's not for me and it seems like ggg is willing to let poe1 die in favor of their new baby. It's a bummer but it is what it is. Plenty of new games are coming to fill the void left by Jonathan's bad decision making
It's sad, it didn't need to be like this. Jonathan might be damaging GGG more than they can recover from, you should NOT abandon the only finished game you have for just being a bit faster deploying an EA or later, improving on that EA. That's what EA is for, cooking until it's good. Leaving PoE1 in the dust is not a good idea.
I enjoyed PoE 2 more than PoE 1 (that is, until I got to endgame). That being said, once MH Wilds releases PoE 2 won't exist for me. The game LOVES to make you waste your time on every possible action you take (and in a way that I don't think exists in PoE 1 where it's much more lenient with better crafting, less dependant on RNG, six tries, better endgame, etc). Can be fine for a one time experience, but doing this tiresome crap every league? No thank you.
I'm fully with Ben. I still pay attention to poe2 content in case there's an announcement that they've dramatically shifted their approach, but mostly because I'm curious about whether or not they are going to keep their promise to maintain both games. I'm happy to keep on playing poe1 if they keep making leagues for it. Are they gonna, though? They said they would. But I wonder for how long.
They were making leagues for PoE 1 throughout PoE 2 development, for years, with a tiny, tiny team left on it. Ofc. right now PoE 2 is the focus, getting that to a decent place. PoE 1 gonna have to wait a little bit. (though if you like PoE 1, it's still great to play even now, even if sadge cus no league)
It seems, it does not bode well for PoE1... And what they are doing is a big mistake imho. PoE2 might be the future, but rushing it at the expense of the present that's PoE1(still profitable and still growing), is a bad idea. I think this should be obvious to everyone.
29:10 hard disagree - the problem is being way too heavy handed with nerfs; if they want the combat to be "meaningful" then progressively tone things down to where they think they should be
consistent small balance changes don't kill builds, doing the shit they did to CoF, CoC and gas grenades does though. You speak like the ONLY WAY to fix the balance is to be extremely heavy-handed whack-a-mole nerfing things out of existence.
Right now the combat is completely opposed to GGG's vision and the game is and has been sitting in that state since launch, why is this not priority number one to get fixed? It's not particularly hard to do a weekly balance patch that shifts some things up and down to make things more reasonable, fix mana costs, ect. its literally changing a few numbers, it doesn't require major development time
So what, we do a big patch every few months that balances some stuff and adds a bunch more new shit that is going have broken stuff in that is going to sit there until the next big patch in a few months time again? If you do that the state of the game is going to constantly be broken. You need to fix what is currently there before you keep adding new shit.
GGG is treating PoE2 like its fully released already, not like its in EA and that IS concerning.
Things like the crafting are definitely design decisions. They took away alts/chaos/scours and that is what made the current system you have now. That was a design decision. They don't need to add a crafting league to fix it, they could also just actually allow regular players to get the higher essences and omens to use for crafting regular gear. The current system is directly a result of things they can adjust and they have left it where it is.
yes, crafting is a design decision and it could be fine with more / better crafting tweaks is my entire point, with the game in a barebones state i dont think it's hard to imagine the barebones designs with actual meat on them will be fine
@dslily if their design philosophy is for players to not have much control over their items and to rely on rng to make gearing more difficult, then I don't think things will change unless they change this idea. When crafting is too rng it doesn't make gear worse or the game harder, it just makes you have to buy it from the trade site.
Yeah they probably need to state their vision for crafting. They could pivot, but at the moment it seems like they really don't want players to be able to craft the best items deterministically. I'd be surprised if something like Harvest would get added.
Yeah, they said multiple times they want us to loot a million bases instead of spamming a million alts on the same base. And I hate that decision very very much. It's not fun and it's a scary path to follow that leads to total regression of all the good things poe1 invented. Looting currency that does something meaningful was the most genius evolution of arpg endgame loot system; why do they want to go backwards on that? Because LE did it? But LE crafting and looting is objectively worse than POE1 (not to mention that they also refused to copy the one thing that even made it relatively viable in LE, that is items dropping identified combined with loot filters for affixes). Why copy them? I'm really dumbfounded by the logic behind their reasoning here.
P.S. That also ruins the economy without any real way to fix it - if there's no way to use exorbitant amounts of common currency quickly, then that currency will always become completely worthless very quickly.
@@superking___If that rng is lowered…with say, additional crafting options, that would be an improvement. I personally hate the idea of full deterministic crafting. Being able to realistically brute force a craft sounds boring. Having a level of rng sounds better, but I want more agency than what we currently have in POE2. Having only 2 out of 6 choices be slightly influenced by me feels bad.
Lily is in a hopium/copium positive state, Ben is just done haha
Found the ragegaming subscriber.
@@Mikoto_Tsukuyomi nah rage gaming subscriber is still trying to chance temporalis
@@Mikoto_Tsukuyomi the fck u smoking lol
@@hatdogchuu9819 I've been stocking up on Silk Robes, just gotta chance a pair of HoWA first 💩
@@Mikoto_Tsukuyomi who's that lol i havent said anything offensive, why are u being weird
The problem with new crafting per league is: GGG don‘t want for good things to go core. At least not before 6 further leagues have passed. They delay everything that is „going-core“ related.
The criticism for crafting is too mild tbh. They had all these great systems and chose to abandon every aspect of them. That is not a we don‘t have time choice. That really is a design choice.
Up to a point where crafting is a very elitist thing to do because you can‘t restart.
They didn't want to put damage multiplier on support gems back then because they haven't implemented the 1-Support Gem Limit per character. This would just repeat PoE1 gem system where all damage multipliers goes to your clearing and bossing skill, etc. But since you can only have 1 support gem per character, it limits what skill have the damaging skills and your setup/support skillls.
The 1-support limit didn't make any sense, however even if they removed that it would still be a lame system where all you'd do would still be to cram every more multiplier in each skill instead of changing how skills work with cool support gems.
@adriandraganescu6040 that's the thing with 1-support limit. You avoid the lame system and still we can get support gems with multipliers.
Probably now we're not seeing it because we're only dealing with the first batch of support gems. They'll surely add more.
@ Yeah but why? Why are multipliers needed on support gems to begin with? They stated themselves in 2023 that they will avoid multipliers on gems yet here we are. It doesn't make for fun customization of skills. It would have been infinitely better if support gems just changed how the skills work and stuff like that. Similar to how LE does it in their system but better with more options!
@@adriandraganescu6040 multipliers are good for different functions. Let's say 30% inc damage can already separate your main skill and setup skill from each other instead of just utility.
If they keep the balance between skill gems alone, some skill gems no longer have the potential to be a main damaging skill gem which would impact build diversity. For ex, Earthquake is strong but would you have it as your main skill gem or just use sunder because their dps is balanced. You would just prefer sunder over earthquake all the time because all you add to support both are utilities while sunder is easier to use.
And yes they mentioned they won't add support with multipliers but again, they implemented 1-support gem per char to avoid repetitive support gems on every skill. You really don't want 3 of your skills to have the brutality support, well maybe you do but it affects the build diversity. If you have brutality support on every damaging skill you have, then why are you equipping additional skills anyway.
@@adriandraganescu6040 and LE has a lot of useless nodes that just adds damage multipliers too or requires you to put 3/5 points to a node which only add +2 sec duration per point that you don't need to reach a certain node.
LE tree is great but some nodes are just fillers and require you to allocate a lot of points into it that your build doesn't need.
You like the map layouts? Have you ever tried the Vaal ones or Mire? The layouts combined with kill all rares killed the game for me and I ain’t coming back anytime soon.
I think my only problem with "guys it's not complete" is that MANY of these problems existed in poe1. Why are these hurdles in poe2? Why are we apologizing on ggg's behalf for these issues? I am still in the camp of this is early access and hoping it's a traditional early access with many changes to come before "live". But I still dislike all the apologist attitude toward the issues that never needed to exist in poe2 to begin with. It seems like willful ignorance.
The big concern for me is the overt development focus in the campaign on boss fights just getting dropped in the endgame. Not just the kill all rares shit but the fact they chose such swarmy league mechanics to implement. I want to know so bad what was the leadership mindset to turn away from bosses like this. Throwing it together isn't a good enough explanation, these were choices.
Yeah, if they could just nail boss fighting, but the problem is that the game has sped up so much that boss animations no longer pose any threat. Even if they boost the bosses' HP to make them last longer, it’ll always turn into an easy clown fest.
I am in utter disbelief at how people cannot wrap their heads around the game being unfinished.
At around 25:00, I do think it makes perfect sense to say the content in endgame is there. I don’t know what I would be missing content-wise. In POE 1, there’s not much more in terms of "new things to find" than in POE 2. I mean, the Arbiter takes as long as Maven, and A4 takes as long as Uber Maven to farm, I would say. There are 4 other pinnacle bosses, which is almost the same as POE 1’s mapping content. (Sure, one could argue that POE 1 has more bosses for something like Expedition, which has 3, and so on. But these aren’t harder or more engaging than the pinnacles. You can kill them if you want, especially after doing the Uber pinnacles.)
Update: Yes I do know that there are more different things in POE 1 but I don´t think these are the reason that you get the feeling like there is nothing to do in POE2. Most ppl in a league only focus on 1 or 2 mechanics for that league so they don´t need all of it. If we don´t have anything to do in POE 2 now after less than a league than it in my opinion not because there are to few of them. But yes more wouldn´t hurt.
Beyond that point, there’s only so much new "content" you can add. The reason POE 1 feels better is that you can scale the content more, and you can scale your character more. But it's not that we’re missing new bosses, maps, or alternative league systems. If they added Blight, it wouldn’t make a difference-some would farm it, others wouldn’t, but it wouldn’t keep you playing because it’s just another thing on your map. It’s horizontal scaling.
If you could add more tablets to all of you maps or add more modifiers sure that would make it more fun, but just simply adding tablets would certainly breakt it in other ways. And the atlas makes just not fun to search for 1-2 maps that can be juiced to then have 10 maps in preparation.
On a similar note, I don’t think crafting just gets better with new leagues. The only way it would is if they reverse one of their core changes in POE 2, which is the idea that you’re crafting a base item. They changed all the orbs so you can’t redo an item over and over because they wanted to make drops matter. Right now, the most a base item from regular enemies can cost is 1c in POE 1, because you can keep re-rolling it for that price. If we look at most bases in POE 2, they succeeded in making them worth something. But as long as that’s the case, crafting will be centered around these bases and their availability. I don’t see how this will be fun. If they add a new league that lets you simply clear items (in a cheap way-annuls don’t count because they’re so rare, meaning a base item needs to be worth around 3 annuls for it to make sense as base crafting option).
So, I see BEN's point here. There’s nothing to do, not because there isn’t enough "content," but because we can’t scale the content to match our character strength, and we don’t need upgrades because we can’t scale speed (and that’s not just movement speed) to scale the clear in meaningfull ways. (There are ways to get better clear but these are always Buildchanges not upgrades to you character. In POE 1 you can make almost any Build fast with enough investment. Thats not possible in POE 2. I do think Temporalis Clear is at least as fast as very very good POE 1 Builds and with Queen of the Forest you can get 100+% MS and be fast but thats simply a build difference not an upgrade)
i regularly swap my mapping strategy every week in poe 1 and have something different to do for pretty much the entire league that is the beauty of poe 1, in poe 2 i have like 3 options that you outscale instantly. also there are many bases in poe 1 worth far more than any poe 2 base
Genuine question: Did GGG not explicitly say endgame was thrown together as a rough draft for testing purposes? Am I misremembering this?
The endgame lacks content both in amount of choices and your ability to reach the choices. With citadels being hard to find, most players had not killed those bosses or arbiter because it felt like dumb luck. With buy ins to making deli/ritual/exped feel good, new players don’t invest into this content. With breach being the meta currency farming method, new players flocked to only doing this content.
I don’t understand how adding crafting options doesn’t fix this. How is having 3 bases per piece make the focus exclusively bases?
I personally hope they don’t make the biggest mistake of listening to all these POE1 doomers. This game should be a different game, otherwise they could’ve kept patching POE1 and rebranded to bring in new players. I hope that the combat you can achieve in campaign is scaled to work in endgame. It all just becomes the POE1 1 button clear, it’s boring and made for ADHD-ridden players. This game has an infinitely better experience for early game, so the hope is they can carry this over to continue into endgame amidst their content changes.
Side note: Him saying Spark is the most engaging currently is the funniest shit ever.
Lmao are you ok? Have you ever played PoE 1 end game? This is so far from the truth it's crazy.
@@dslily 100% facts. PoE 1 end game has a wealth of content that is not comparable to 2. With systems that are fun and rewarding.
While also having very well streamlined progression that is satisfying and rewarding. PoE 2 doesn't have that. (clear 10 tier 5 maps is not it, and they know it)
In 1, I often start with expedition, as it falls off drop it and do some Alva temples(good to sell too). Do a lot of delve for leveling, it's also rewarding and nice to run.
If I feel frisky I do Heist (which is fun but leveling the dudes every time isn't, it takes a lot of time). Even did some betrayal lately. (and many other options that are all interesting enough, besides essence I guess).
All the while progressing the Atlas and gaining good rewards for it. Progressing Sear and Eater, then Maven, which also has steady and clear progression.
The progression ladder in PoE 1 is super nice and keeps you invested. Seeing clear progress towards meaningful goals is huge.
If the problems people are pointing out are just content-related, then they’re not real issues that will persist after the game is fully released.
poe2 bad lol. They gave us something no one wanted game is total trash. give us our freaking poe1 league already -_-
got my 30 bucks worth of gameplay for the hours i spent playing it but it sucks lol. we want poe1
Idk man im a new player for poe2 and im having a blast, 300hrs in. Maybe lots of poe 1 players are just jaded now. Realistically, i dont think GGG will keep poe 1 around. It's just not good for business perspective. Poe2 has really good player retention. And maybe the unfortunate reality is that poe 1 players are not gonna have a game to play anymore in near future, and GGG will have no problem dropping them out since poe 2 is doing great in numbers. Bad thing for poe 1 players, but good for new poe 2 players? Sad but, such is life i guess. Cant have your cake and eat it too.
@@alifpatria2135 good for u bruh u have fun in poe2 ! but if u don't play POE1 u don't even knew how bad POE2 is right now ! and they said they will make 2 game work along side ! if they can't do that just shutdown poe2 and cook it for 2 more year then realease !
@@toannguyen-yt1tkI know how bad POE1 was 4 years ago. Shit game then. My biggest complaint is POE2 endgame combat feels too much like POE1 combat. Braindead sprint, 1 button clear, buff/debuff if boss. It’s still slower than the average POE1 build, but is too fast to feel meaningful. Oh and delve doesn’t exist yet as it was the only content I enjoyed in POE1, but that isn’t a genuine complaint.
@@toannguyen-yt1tkcan't be that good if most people haven't heard of it but are playing 2
The gameplay at the end where is that combo based gameplay ? reloading ur crossbow is the combo ?
On anything relatively tanky you combine Shockburst Rounds to make dmg with another skill to apply shock depending on your build. On top of that you use mark for better shock, curse to cut resistances, reload for speed and more damage. That's 5 buttons already, is it not enough?
It works on warrior (if you take away the leftclick aoe build that's op and does everything). You go to a wall (because there's no way to put a circle wall around you (why does fortress gem work like it does...?)), put up a wall to not get killed instantly by the hyperspeed enemies (hopefully the wall survives long enough, usually it does) and then do a 2 second windup slam to 1-shot everything. That's a combo. But all of that happens only because warrior is intentionally hobbled and weak. The combos exist but it also feels bad to do them because 1) they're still very limited in what you can actually do 2) only weak builds need to do it, 3) you'd rather just get 300% skill speed (nope, not possible) and not need to do the wall at all, so the combo just feels artificially forced on you. If you were allowed to trade all your damage to be a very fast slammer that can speedclear T1 or do a big damage combo that 1shots T15, well then the combo would feel a lot better and a lot more meaningful. Bad balance and artificial hobbling feels bad.
@@piktasniekas8124 "1) they're still very limited in what you can actually do 2) only weak builds need to do it, 3) you'd rather just get 300% skill speed (nope, not possible) and not need to do the wall at all, so the combo just feels artificially forced on you. "
Yup, at least more combos and hopefully more interesting supports will be added. That actually change skills mechanically, I mean, gameplay wise. Like Fortress support. Making projectiles work in weird ways or shoot out in different patterns etc. That type of stuff.
@michael_bones @piktasniekas8124 i never said that combos dont exist in poe2. but using combos is stupid in how the game is balanced hence why all builds use one skill to oneshot the screen. mobs running with full speed at u and u being in a wheelchair that can only do his scuffed roll makes using combo skills pretty stupid u rather just onetap them before they reach u. best example for me is ritual. try do some combo stuff in there. mobs spawn right on top of u, in the time u build up your shit they already surrounded, stunned and killed you.
And you see it in the gameplay at the end. there is no combos being used or methodical gameplay its just 1 button and u strafe arround the mob.
there are combo based builds, not necessarily close to combo builds that exist in poe 1, but thats also because of the lack of skills in poe 2 atm, a good example is a lot of evocation builds use multiple evocations in order to boost damage, apply crit weakness, restore mana (effectively hp for a lot of builds with MoM), it's valid to say that combo based gameplay isn't super prevalent atm and that it needs to be changed somewhat, but the framework of poe 2 allows for a large amount of potential in the future with the weapon swap changes alone for example.
“3 years of vacation” classic
Next Jonathan interview "We released a cookbook!"
I have a LOT of respect for Ben, he's a god gamer and completely entitled to his opinion. I think he's let his frustration blind him a bit from his logic. Call me a homer, but I have COMPLETE confidence and faith that PoE2 is going to put all other ARPGs to shame, simply because of how well they listen to the community and they actually play the game. It's insane to think they won't massively overhaul the endgame and really the base game prior to full release.
I would agree with him on the fact that they should have nuked Herald tech into the ground, it's stupid and it has completely ruined the gameplay at endgame.
actually you DO wanna constantly break people's builds. this is the time to do it, before launch...
Why? Half of the skills and even more support gems aren't even in the game yet. Why balance around quick hotfixes now? What problem are you solving for?
L take. Breaking builds in season drives off players. Breaking changes should be introduced with new leagues.
You understand the huge increase in player base are alot of the types of people that will throw a giant fit if their char gets nerfed. This is a business decision. If they nerfed herald chains and es and stat stacking etc a bunch of people would cry and quit.
@@cebolinha-oliginalthere is no season moron it's literally EA standard. There's no league mechanics currently. Now is the time to clip builds before it's too late
@@cebolinha-oliginalso it's not in early access then it's just released unfinished?
browsing ritual items with a controller: game auto-pauses
browsing ritual items with kb&m: mobs come at you from under your butt.
where is the justice??
I'm still sold on the idea of PoE2, even if the execution hasn't been fully instantiated.
The fear is that it never will.
People forget that we are in the beginning of early access even Ben said it but glossed over it like it doesn't matter😂
@@lanmandragoran8337 You should spend your time "fearing" less dumb things.
@@ulgenrabishlave4645the problem is yall bash people for giving feedback. Any time someone gives feedback yall defend the devs and say “it’s ea”. Well yeah that’s why they’re complaining to better the game
@@lanmandragoran8337 You are not smart are you.
Part of why changes felt slow is they were on vacation forever
Ben is somebody who has finally woke up and broke out the glaze stage, this next major update needs to be something and we need 3.26 to make up for this boring few month stint of poe2 herald abuse.
100%. It took me some time to realize it, too;) 3.26 can't wait!!!
I feel like most of the the video complaints come from people expecting poe2 to be like the game they main, whether it be a diablo or poe1. I'm vibing on the game
was playing poe-1 in 2011 CBT, when Piety was the final boss. One of the things that struck me out as "Wow these guys really care about their game" was the fact that every time i would launch it it would download some fixes and there would be some notes. It was patched constantly.
That's also to some degree something that changes with the increasing size of the company and the project itself.
Back than a small team in a small project can make constant small changes and push them.
This is not possible anymore with a project the size of PoE2 for many reasons. One is e.g. that they need to give client side changes to Sony and Microsoft for quality checks 1-2 weeks ahead of time before they can be pushed.
I think they still very much care about both their games.
Yes, I was also expecting more constant updates. Waiting 2-3 months for a "big patch" is fuckigng bad. Not to mention the 3 weeks they took off after dropping the game!
@@tylerisafkyeah they shouldn't have been able to take any time to spend with their families
@@tylerisafk”Oh no, the game devs took time off during the holidays to spend time with their families! How dare them!” 🙄
They update constantly but ppl hearing big update and forget about other things smh. Gold fish attention span
Poe2 is fun ! but the rare item is shit ! good unique like 10 and everyone use them for everyfking build it so fking boring
My biggest issue with the game is that is in this weird in-between state where it's too easy for day 1 POE 1 players, but still doesn't allow for the amount of experimentation a new player needs to figure things out.
Especially early on when skills and builds can change so much, I just want to be able to play around with more stuff, but with two lesser jeweller's orbs and a respec system that punishes you for making adjustments at a later point in the game, where you could finally start to dick around and explore fun ideas, it really feels like they just don't want you to experiment.
I was really hoping for a version of POE where I wouldn't have to look up guides, download extra software, worry about meta strategies, or get stuck with trade league just because I have other things going on.
A POE where I'm not told that I don't get to have fun just because a top player could abuse the mechanic it's based on.
I totally agree with Ben. I came back to poe after like 10 years and campaign is ok but endgame after some hours is totally boring, no crafting, crap trading. Bad design in so many places. Im at 95lvl now and dont know what to do, go thought same content over and over again? Even when joining party there is only clearing maps and no more acctivites. Anything interesting, anything - NO. Even clearing together pinacle bosses? No because you got 1 try. Endgame doesnt needs small changes or skills nerfs... it needs a total big change. In current state, in longer term like few months, numbers of players will only decrease. Please check current stats and estimations - its slowly going down. Probably in some time I will also quit. Thanks Lily! Cheers!
"Please check current stats and estimations - its slowly going down." - Wow, like every gamer ever? Like PoE 1 every league? lol
Obviously PoE 2 needs a lot. It literally is missing more than half of the game, what do you expect. End game boring for me too, I stopped playing it, just waiting for updates. Can't compare it to PoE 1 that has had several years of hard work, polishing and streamlining and crap ton of content(Main thing).
PoE 2 - missing 3 acts, with all the accompanying monster types, gear base types, maps, bosses etc. (all used in end game too). Missing half of weapon types, axes, swords, spears, flails etc. All with their accompanying Skills (and supports). Missing half the classes and MOST ascendancies. Missing a lot of end game content, the bigger more interesting systems especially. (and some of what is there is badly balanced now, on top of missing some elements, so it's not too fun)
Literally less than half the game is there. A crap ton of things will improve even simply by adding a lot more content. (yes, there are core issues also but game would still be PoE 1 tier and above even with only adding a ton of content)
POE was shit 4 years ago, so I can only imagine 10 years ago. And it’s early access, take a break and play other games. That is what you should do. You just described half of the movement of every multiplayer game ever: bleed players slowly, then surge at content release, and repeat.
@ hah yes that right...maybe I expected to much this time, as beside negative things I had a lot of fun playing poe 2.
It's missing half of the campaign and a couple of classes/ ascendancy. End game boss and league content. Literally them finishing the game is putting in all the micro transactions into the game from PoE.
Less than half of the ascendies are in and half of the classes are in. Endgame is a skeleton placeholder. Games not done yet and it's only been two months of release. People have no patience
2:30 "The worst PoE1 Layout is S+ in PoE2" - just no. Dungeon Map in PoE1 is worse than every single map layout PoE2 got, even Vaal Factory.
3:50 "What has changed, what has fucking changed" - Geez, he seems to underestimate the work that goes into big content and balance changes, more so with 2-3 weeks holidays in between. And even with that, there were already a ton of small changes to cater to the audience.
In total he seems to be unreasonably salty. The "the endgame is doomed"-take is so weird from a PoE1 Veteran. Maybe he forgot how PoE1 endgame looked like 1-2 years ago (holy fuck were atlas regions annoying).
At least you have Quicksilver + Onslaught, don't get pushed by mobs, can rush the boss, only have to do it once for atlas point, etc.
@@dinglueliu7998 You only have to do it once most of the time that's true. But that is not the point he made, he made the point that the layout itself would be considered S+ in PoE2, which is just wrong.
They really did NOTHING for 2 months, what do you mean, the last patch could be 3 rows with the same effect.
Regarding layout, are you serious? There are layouts like dungeon but 5 times bigger
@@Misho_the_exile They fixed almost everything players had problem with since launch and other problems are adressed yet ppl have the audacity to say they did nothing tf
@@Grimkraglast I heard is the armor but was another GGG joke
I completely not worry about the game future. It's just the endgame that they worked on only for an half of a year when the compagn was cooked for 5 years. Give devs feedback and time.
this entire video is lily saying "its not that bad" then complains about why that thing is bad
"it's not that bad, like maybe idk" every time ben makes a valid point
@@im123ben "its not an issue other than what ben said" She did this like 7 times I dont get it
@@coi he is not wrong on most things, i just dont agree that the game is doomed because of these issues, hope this helps you understand
@@dslily Why tho. The video listed so many bad decisions, some at the design level. Something will definitely change, not necessarily for the better, but in most cases everything will remain as is. Why is there such a cope that the devs will fix everything? To me it seems rather naive.
@@wilhelmcastellanos8632 Because that's your personal opinion("bad" decisions), probably because you are a fan of Ben. Some of his takes are not things that need to change, in fact, it would be bad for the game to change. (like no support gem restrictions) At the least, it's far from an objective take. Ben is a pretty specific type of player, he wants what HE likes.
Other things, are obvious things that most people have brought up already. And just about anyone agrees with. Lilly included. (is that video actually new? cus in some ways it sounds not up to date)
He is being weirdly extreme and starts to sound like people who sit on the PoE 1 forum all day and constantly cry about everything about it and are never happy. Or ones that go "Dead game" to literally anything, including games that are thriving or haven't even released yet. (like PoE 2)
A lot of the complaints are either things that can be fixed by a balance pass(e.g. melee mana issues). Or things that will be vastly better when more content is added. (literally more than half the game is missing and the end game was rapidly thrown together before early access release. half of the item bases, weapon types, monsters, bosses, skills, supports, maps, crafting, end game mechanics, objectives, acts, more than half of the ascendancies and half the classes etc. etc.).
Given all this, it's ridiculous to act like that. Towards a game that is like 40% "complete". That has barely been out publicly. Woah, whole month has went by (with devs back to work), and they haven't changed it drastically yet? Doomed, ruined. Ok, bro.
I have plenty of issues with PoE 2, including core design issues. Though those are mostly things I don't like in PoE 1 also. Still have been playing PoE 1 forever, as it has other aspects that make it good. (which PoE 2 is lacking in right now, naturally, end game needs a lot of love).
My biggest concerns with PoE 2 are probably the combat gameplay, balance and the map designs. The rest will pretty much be "fixed" with more content (and obv. if it's at least the quality of PoE 1) That take that content will not improve things, is nonsensical.
I do feel that they fix things a bit slow, and the tendency to nerf things rather than buffing other things to match good things is a nightmare.
His takes are rife with contradictions about what it means for a game to be in EA and what state POE2 is in. Pretending POE is not just 1 button builds for 90% of the most efficient builds is also being disingenuous.
Thats his point he doesnt one nothing but one button builds in poe2, which atm 80% of people are playing one button builds in poe2. He want them to be different, end game its just poe1 with a worst atlas system
@@quincestopher8892 Yes but he disingenuously says that PoE 1 isn’t one button builds, which isn’t true.
@@omegaxtrigun no its that non 1 button build combat was promised as meaningfull and harder combat and yet here we are
Yeah but PoE1 never pretended to be something else whereas in PoE2 we were promised "engaging" combat... lol In the campaign and some late game bosses, combat is awesome... Maps though? One click builds rule, PoE1 on steroids, nothing changed.
@@rich1231 If I had to speculate, especially given JR's most recent Twitter update on the state of POE1 and 2, is that Maps in POE2 are literally a sandbox for them to test scaling and little more. I cannot fathom that this will be what the end game looks like at release, but instead is something they continue to iterate on. But in order to ship the game into EA, they needed -something- for us to do once the campaign was over. Regardless, I think some of the criticisms are fair, I just find the standard to be unrealistic for a game more or less in alpha development.
The actual main point they wanted to address in PoE2 was the one thing that is complete and utter dogshit in PoE1, which is the combat, and they succeeded in that as proven by everyone loving acts 1-3.
I don't disagree with most of his points, but honestly what he should focus on is the fact that this Early Access is really just acts 1,2 and 3, and then a bunch of other rushed shit slapped on so they don't have to delay another 1-2years.
What we are reviewing is acts 1-3. Everything else might as well not be considered part of the EA. They worked on this endgame for like 3 months total.
a lot of these big streamers don't really like playing the games, they just want to see number go up, and if it isn't going up as much they won't like it
He comes off VERY doomposty with this. And I genuinely dont understand the "what has changed" point he made. Like omg you mean to tell me when there was a good 3 weeks time off during christmas + new year nothing was happening in terms of development? I think he might be onto something with this one.
Plus GGG for the last couple of years now have been pretty clear about wanting PoE 2 to be and feel different from PoE 1. They left PoE 1 up and running so people not happy with PoE 2 could just go back to play that one. Its barely been 2 months give them some fucking breathing room doomers.
yeah.. if you play the game you would actually realize its the same god damn game, but dumbed down.. the things that they were telling us the game was gonna bring dont exist.. "meaningful combat/Harder combat" was the one and its literally not a thing in poe2, in fact i'd say the game is easier and less demanging than poe1
"Its barely been 2 months give them some fucking breathing room doomers."
We've gotten insane content updates basically every 3 months for years and years, along with QoL changes and hotfixes/some minor changes during the leagues. Expecting some changes, for what is their primary focus currently at the pinnacle of spotlight and attention to the game after 2 very dull months in terms of updates is not insane.
They've also had 10+ years of PoE development and PoE2 was announced in 2020. Expecting them to have some content mapped out or to make some additions to the EA game that is very new content reliant is not insane. GGG being abnormally quiet about changes also isn't reassuring.
I'm not saying they won't make massive changes and introduce tons of content -- I'm extremely optimistic about the game's future -- but calling everyone a doomer for critiquing after 2 months isn't any healthier.
@@CrZ0004 you're the first one who'll cry when they eventually nerf all the builds that trivialize combat so stop pretending.
@@Inaluogh trivialize combat? it's like you're not fucking understanding what im saying.. its already trivialized and thats the fucking point..
Not really. Poe2 was going to be an expansion. They started pushing Poe in the direction to meet up with poe2. Then they suddenly popped up going oh it's going to be a while completely different game
The weapon crafting system and the "Making gear that drops matter" were 100% intentional design choices
23:00 idk last build I played used like all the buttons available... Ice Nova self cast, Frostbolt self cast, Arcanist Brand, Sigil of Power, Arcane Cloak, Flame Dash, Blessing Aura, maybe a couple things I can't remember off the top of my head but yeah. Almost all the builds I've played recently use at least 3 buttons all the time.
I think Lily is definitely on the copium hard here.
listen to what i said again
Buttons that are situational buffs and/or big damage push buttons are not the same as actual 2-3 button builds. Pressing Sigil of Power when you find a rare you need to dps down is not the same thing as pressing gas arrow into detonating arrow. Those two skills interact with each other in a way that creates new gameplay opportunities because it doesnt necessarily have to be detonating arrow to explode the gas cloud nor does it have to be gas arrow to produce the gas cloud. The combinatorics of PoE2 simply have no analog to PoE, and earnestly saying that situational buff buttons are the same thing is incredibly dishonest.
Yeah, My build has so many buttons that I had to practice the sequence so that I wouldn't die boss fights and pinnacle content. Hit x(weapon swap) -- middle mouse -- hit R -- hit E -- hit Q(auto weapon swap) -- hit Left Click --- Hit back button on mouse --- hit Q --- hit left click. LOL... Not to mention that when I make a 700% map to ensure I am getting around 3 fragment drops from pinnacle bosses.. I have to be so fucking careful. I need to understand what the white, magic, and rare mobs do and dodge and play around their mechanics. If I don't I die. I fucking love this game and I played POE 1 since 2013 and have over 3,000 hours. Ben is just going to be a poe 2 hater because some of the community never wanted this game and just wants Poe 1.. which they can have.. I will never be going back to POE 1.. POE 2 is too fucking good.
Not to mention that there is not a single one button build in PoE1 as all of them use some movement skill. Want to see what real one button build is just roll Monk lol 🤣🤣🤣
It's kind a bad design, when you can make only a few skill gems into actual builds.
I played Baldurs Gate 3 EA and it was sosososososo much better on release, expecting same with PoE 2. Base of game is very strong - you add some balance, more skills, good atlas mechanics etc and it will be great. My only hope is that game really doesnt become right-click-1shot-screen, even now PoE 2 is great and im playing alot of it
I think its kinda stupid to want faster drastic changes from a glorified beta test that's only existed for 2 months. I think its crazier when the studio has been pretty transparent on their patch cadence, and desire to save major systemic overhauls for an economic reset to get the full scope of balance rather than play whackamole with player power when everyone is nearing endleague. I think its even stupider to just assume things won't improve over the next year+ of development, as if every element of the *early development build* is somehow set in stone 2 months in.
I remember the first time playing poe back in the days, I quit so fast it was trash couple years later came back and never left since. We need to give them time to polish the game it's not a copy paste of Poe1
@@Stainlesssteele4 the atlas is shit and they seem to have a hard stance of keeping it . There is just so many choices they made that’s weird and unappealing. I’ll stay in Poe1 if we ever get a new patch . But tbh I think my time in Poe will be over by the end of year
Yeah poe2 will get improvements while they abandon PoE1 like a stepchild as they're doing. PoE2 is awful at the moment and they just left the first game that people love to rot.
@frozenphreak7528 Petulant, knee jerk reaction to a short production delay. You'll still log on when 3.26 drops and pretend like nothing happened, just like the rest of the obnoxious redditors acting like the world is ending because they have to play other video games for a few months.
@Stainlesssteele4 lmao it's been 7 months since the last update and probably another 3 for the next one
I can't wait to see what all those ??? skill/support gems are gonna be, I like making fun none meta builds but there isn't that much stuff to really think out of the box yet. I'm working on a warrior that uses the monk spinning attack with my shouts so I can spin to win.
My main issue with poe2 is it ended being move forward 2 steps, press 1 or maybe 2 buttons, and that was the gameplay loop for the entire thing. Occasionally I'd have to fight a big hit from a boss but that was it.
Pretty much. The 3 acts and bosses were fun, I don't expect builds to get too crazy by that point, but once I got into maps nothing changed and maps were horrendously dull to me. Especially without map bosses, I think I barely made it to T8 maps before I just made a bunch of new characters instead
The cool part is they can change this. I think that would be more dependent on scaling. From my 60 hours in POE1, I don’t remember a time where I pressed more than one button outside of buffing. POE2, I went through the entire campaign doing that and feeling good. So hopefully they change that to scale well into late game. If not, then I’ll feel significantly worse about POE2, but the fact that they started to move into that direction makes me hopeful.
95% of dev time has been spent on level 1-40. this is why 99% of uniques are low level "trash/leveling uniques", this is why life and armor feels pretty good early game and falls completely apart when you start getting close to endgame. this is why the atlas passive tree is absolutely barebones. it's not really fair to complain about endgame when they clearly had to poop that out within a few months just to give people an endgame gameplay loop, it's like we're pretending poe1 hasn't had an ENTIRE DECADE of revisions to the endgame. poe1's endgame at one point was farming act 3 dominus for the highest ilvl bases
they literally just need more time, people being this hysterical and "doomerpilled" over something so obvious is ridiculous. i think the one thing people can be doomerpilled about is the crafting (greater essences are probably 10x more rare than they intend though), i personally like how poe2 makes bases very valuable as this was one of my biggest complaints about poe1, crafting is trivial and completely broken, though i know the majority of people prefer poe1 crafting
however, i do agree that the gem support system is a bit odd right now, but i've always hated how gem links/sockets work in poe1
Yeah, remember this has been development for 5+ years. Why was ANYTHING thrown together on a whim…?
Well first off the scope changed. From it being an expansion to a separate game.
Also they obviously start with the campaign so that’s where most of the polish is. The endgame was thrown together because they weren’t even working in it until recently because they knew ppl would want to see at least some endgame in early access.
POE came together organically. POE 2 for the masses and casuals.
Hell of an overreaction.
Alk did a better review IMO.
Hell of an waking up call that is needed.
@ 😭
“By level 90 I could play 1000 hours and not improve my character” yeah no fucking shit it’s a finished build by that point
yeah, he's saying there's nothing to do. In poe you can play 1000 hours and still have things to do. Poe2 has no content.
Ben is an excellent early access tester. You other "guinea pigs" of POE2 should be more honest on your experiences.
I understand from player's perspective it feels like it's been 2 months without much change, but realistically it's been few weeks for GGG due to Christmas break. Bad timing for sure. Also I have a feeling that a lot of the changes they need to make aren't small numerical changes but fundamental system changes, which will happen slowly even for EA
POE 2 just needs more content. When more leagues get added and more map tilesets the game will just keep getting better. GGG has always been able to get a lot of content added at a rapid pace compared to other companies. A new improved blight mechanic alone will make the game so much more fun.
no its not content that is the problem.. the core game is just not what it should be.. in what way is it different from poe1 outside of you having less of everything? add all of that you're missing and its basically poe1, but then that begs the question what is the point of this game?
Agree up to the blight part... yuck but that's why poe 1 is great so many things for people to do what they enjoy, PoE 2 will get there. I agree with Ben if you are following a guide or playing what's broken combat is meaningless. I played a off Meta frost sorc no archmage no grim feast and T1 zesht fight was like 3 minutes and it was the most fun I've had in any PoE game with the exception of beating izaro for my final ascendancy for the 1st time.
More content won't fix how ass it feels to run some of these map layouts. But I'm hopeful that will be fixed eventually.
It needs far more than just content.
A core issue with the game is that they brought in a ton of PoE1 stuff, rather than bringing in stuff for PoE2. Furthermore, for many systems that didn't work originally in PoE1, they brought them back in that original state, hoping they can change it better this time than they did in PoE1. And that's why stuff breaks down so badly in the end game, as well as why we have horrible systems like how armour works.
They need to yoink out the PoE1 stuff and replace it with things meant for PoE2. They need to cap how crazy player power can go, again, to fit the vision they stated for PoE2, and so the game doesn't turn into PoE1. They need to step away from the trading as the main way to get gear. Because the campaign appeals to a lot of people. The end game? Not so much.
Basically, the "why does this its own game?" question is pretty relevant, because they've brought over too much of PoE1's design, including many of its worst parts.
They took the path that is a doomsday scenario for the game.
Lily. You acknowledge later in the video that "meaningful combat" doesn't really exist, nor would you really want it to in top-down ARPG's. And you are 100% correct about this. That is for games like Dark Souls. But that is what Ben meant when he said FUNDAMENTAL CORE DESIGN choices. Many of the things they went into PoE 2 trying to do, AKA the philosophy of the game, was broken from the start. This is why some of us have little faith in the game, as devs can fix issues, but they may not really see these things as issues, but choices. You are right that the currency system will improve over time but that is obviously not what he was talking about.
finally a "react to ben's take" that adds something to it. I agree that asking for so much so early on in PoE2 is a bit excessive - like you said PoE1 took a while to grow from a shit game to one of the best games ever
On the other hand, PoE1 was started by 2 Kiwis in a garage
How many people here played the poe 1 closed beta? When "endgame" was farming fellshrine ruin? Comparing the two games at beta launch poe 2 is so far ahead where poe 1 was it's insane.
Because way too many people have stupid expectations. Poe1 has had 10 years to cook. They slapped the end game together to make it functional so that people like ben can break it and the devs can polish it to feel like act 1-3 which is the content that has been polished to excellence. They dont want poe2 to be like poe1 so it makes sense they dont just copy and paste poe1 into poe2. If the game is in a poor state once its considered fully launched and becomes f2p then i can understand. But we are what, a month in a half into early access and people are losing their shit that the game is not perfect.
Mf Poe patch 1.0 released in 2013.Why u people comparing 2013 expectations with current year ? lmao
They've had money, time, and knowledge from what has worked and not worked in Poe, and used Poe as a test bed for some of the ideas. Poe last few years were partially poe2 beta in some ways
Even if they ignored things learned from poe
I have and i disagree completely. Poe1 was a game made by some newb devs with no money and came out in a market that had d2 as the golden standard and d3 as the failure. To a market hungry for an arpg that literally had nothing. PoE2 is in the making for the last 6 years by a studio that is supporting and developing the best arpg in the market for the last 12 years, that has tncent money backing them up and a team of experienced devs that have solely focused on one single game that is 80% the same. Which by the way, they have been using not only as inspiration but also "free" beta testing ground for the last 2 years.
Ignoring the underling circumstances in which poe1 and poe2 betas happen and doing a straight up 1:1 comparison to conclude that poe2 has more stuff in it is not the correct approach.
@@TheHollowBlade yes and they had this experience to make the PoE 2 better , they had testers and staff for PoE 2 , people gave their opinion about the game how it should be and somehow GGG ignored it and went their own so called '' VISION '' , also seems Chris Wilson rly wants the game to be like Diablo , as he has mentioned many times that he wants it to feel as in his old Diablo days , but now its some kind of a Diablo , Last Epoch and Dark Souls inbreed , while PoE 1 is a perfection , i love the looting , the fast-paced gameplay , the crafting , while Diablo in its old days has nothing near of what the PoE offers and still Chris Wilson somehow wants it to be like that game .
When he said "its been a whole two months" I knew his head was in the wrong place. It takes more than two months (one of which was a major holiday month) to solve the problems he's got with it.
His critique is not wrong. Its just a matter of time and his expectations.
I do agree with a point he didnt put into words, but Zizeran did. GGG already learned some of these lessons.
Sorry Lily but Ben is spot on here. I just don't think you've realized it yet or maybe you never will. I was where Ben is now a month ago. It's very clear to me that regardless of changes in Poe 2, the base fundamental choices are flawed and you can't really fix that. Lets be real for a sec....GGG has a hard-on for an 20+ year old game that isn't all that relateable in this day and age. You can die alone on that hill on thinking layouts are fine, I can promise you that you are among a small group who thinks that from what I've seen online. I will never play Poe 2 again, of that...I'm certain.
Give me a list of all these "Base fundamental core choices that can't be changed." I want to see them. I keep hearing about them but no one ever lists any. Btw you type like a boomer lmao
@@sc065the point is that realistically they aren't going to have the time or resources to radically change fundamental systems like movement or the way the skill gem system works.
When was the last time you play D II? D II has some serious advantages to PoE II in the fun department.
@@Jaguar-s7f What "fundamental" changes need to be made? What does "realistically" even mean here? I'm curious which ones are necessary that would be so difficult, you're being vague. If we choose movement/skill gems, what exactly needs changing? I hope what you think needs changes aligns with everyone else who is unhappy with PoE 2.
If you're so certain of the amount of time and effort the changes would require (a very difficult topic in software development), then you certainly should be able to list the exact issues that need fixing and how they'll be fixed. Otherwise you'd be ballparking tens, hundreds of variables you know nothing about.
Can someone here actually list what these "base fundamental choices" are that are so heavily flawed with PoE2?
Another streamer defending the state POE 2 is going to be in 10 years instead of criticizing what they are playing NOW.
PoE1 has gone through so many drastic changes--reworks, introductions and even complete removal of systems over the course of its existence. I think a little more faith in the developers is owed.
The difference is that poe1 was released by 3 guys in a basement. This game sold over a million copies from an already well established studio
brother all those drastic changes and reworks that happened in poe got fucking reverted in poe2, so many mechanics and systems downgraded and backtracked to dogshit level
@ well it certainly shows when you compare the two in their initial release state doesn’t it lol
@@ArenetheEtera unfinished product vs unfinished product
@@ArenetheEtera they've got years of experience, you'd think they'd implement the good thing they learned from poe1 and add some unique mechanics to their new game, but it's just shit tbh. played the campaign on 4 different characters and had a lot of fun but the endgame and crafting mechanics are shit, also the trials are trash.
The links needs a rework or something that encourages experimenting. I agree with Ben, like the first 4 links are easy to try out. The drop rates for 3 links are high and solid. The 4 links could use a drop rate buff, but the exchange sells it for relatively cheap so it's manageable. The problem is the 5th link. I understand it is supposed to be like 6 linking in Poe1, but the difference is that there are multiple ways of getting one, random socketing and linking it, drops, craft, etc. In Poe2, you have 2 choices corrupt the gem and lose out on plus level or the ultra-rare, more expensive than 2 divines perfected jeweler orb. That's it. The gems can't naturally drop as links unless they add that into the uncut skill gems, like 4 link uncut spirit/skill lv X.
He answered his own "why does poe2 exist" question himself during his rant: new player experience. PoE1 is dogshit for new players whether PoE1 players want to admit it or not --although he acknowledges as much. PoE2 does a much better job of easing in players into the game. It's not perfect by any means (there needs to be a quest that explains crafting, essences and such) but it's so much better than it is in PoE1.
At this point PoE2 new player experience is easing them into PoE1... lol
The jump from campaign bosses to endgame content is a huge letdown. They promised a greater focus on boss fights, but the endgame doesn't live up to that at all. The problem is that the boss animations from the campaign are still the same in the endgame, but by that point, we're so much faster that they don’t pose a real threat. Even if their survivability were increased, it wouldn't change much because the game’s pace at that stage completely outpaces their attacks. The whole ‘God-like’ power we’re supposed to have doesn’t match the challenge these bosses provide.
All of this makes the game less fun to play. Without those dynamic and methodical fights that keep you engaged, the endgame just loses its appeal.
This is a take only someone who's played thousands of hours in a game can have, he's a little jaded and he's not wrong about those points but thinking that things can't change is just that sort of take you can only have from frustration.
yeah he for sure is jaded and its odd that HIM out of all people think that the game just wont change after ten years of POE1 and where that started. There is literally no logic behind that statement and purely a take based off of anger.
Yep, kids an absolute nerd.
He’s a degen. Playing any game to the level he’s at would make anyone jaded about it.
You know how it is hard to remove power from players without them having a meltdown. This seems like the game change equivalent of that. Like he has some good points but he absolutely seems jaded
@@xxCHAOTICKxx maybe people don't want to wait 10 years for the game to be good, while they keep making less and less content for the game that was actually good. so now they are stuck trying to enjoy a half finished product.
and its actually crazy that u guys think a game in 2012 with 20 people in a garage is a fair comparison to a game that :
1- is a sequel
2- already been in development for over 8 years (2019 act 1 was already done btw and they said it's been in development for years) by an AAA studio
3- they have all the info they needed from the 1st game.
whats also crazy is how u guys have selective hearing. if you actually try to listen to what he says, his problems that are making him "doompilled" are stuff that are design decisions. like the well. like the gearing/ crafting systems.
and maybe you guys need to consider that him playing more than you, means YOU will eventually run into the same problems so they devs do need to hear that. it's almost as if it's the same thing where everyone was saying "stop complaining game is good" when they were in act 2 and the people were complaining about endgame, then those same people come and complain when they get there "omg endgame is not fun".
his video was made on his stream while playing ssfhc in poe1 and for his audience because people kept asking him. it's not a scripted video review so yes he is talking about his "feelings and experience" to his audience. ofc its gonna sound whiny. if it annoys you don't watch it.
and if you actually like the game please for the love of god stop brushing every complaint as "its EA", "EA" is there so people can complain then the devs get info and they change stuff...
and also maybe people want to play the game before they are on their death beds so they say what annoys them so it gets changed. crazy i know..
I feel like people who don't program for a living have 0 idea how hard and time intensive game development actually is. Its better if they take their time and make meaningful changes than rush things and end up with a worse outcome. That is.. if they aren't being pressured by the company, which usually happens and sucks.
Wonder how this take will age, so far it sounds like absolute delulu clownery
Definitely a little over doomery, I do think if they every try to crack down on one button builds in Poe 2 people will nonstop cry
@@Gaminggamer45 POE 2 was made for casual new players not veterans. After 18k hours in poe1 and 300 in poe2 i can say POE 2 is dogshit , going back to poe1. Casuals can enjoy it , at least we hope to get every 4-5 months a new league in poe1
@@C0nfusi0n0FTheHighest_Orda poe1 is immensly more casual bro, poe2 is fundamentally a barder and more demanding game as its a lot harder to dumb it down to "point and click adventjre" difficulty
Poe1 has near zero mechanical skill compared to poe2 and thats a fact. You need knowledge skill for poe1 and thats just a result of its sheer amou t of content, o which poe2 will inevitably catch up, if anytbing poe1 is doomed due to how braindead its gameplay is in mapping, id say its like subway surfer gameplay under some random tiktok bht subway sjrfer can actually get pretty hard
All his complaints are valid up to the point where he says the game is doomed. It's way way way too soon to call that. People entering early access expecting the world. Then, they burn themselves out playing 300 hours of an incomplete game. Instead of saying, this game has potential and taking a break, they go full doomer. It's completely illogical, but I understand why people would react that way.
@@C0nfusi0n0FTheHighest_Orda Byeeeee I'll enjoy both
It honestly sounds like Ben is just crying without using critical thinking. It’s like all his brain power is in making Poe builds. Half his complaints are dumb. His take on it being early access but not having constant changes is not only low iq brain rot probably from zooming in poe1 but he just ignores the fact they stopped making constant changes because people were mad about constant balance changes
Ben's perspective is skewed pretty heavily by the grind. His criticism is valid, because his perspective is authentic, but I don't think it is representative of even a plurality of players, let alone the majority.
"valid", "authentic"... calm down WOKEy
I agree whith most what Ben says and most my friends who played POE1 for years have similiar opinions. Majority of POE2 player are new players who dont have like 500+ h in POE1 and dont see how much simplified verion of POE1 its sequel is.
Authentic , perhaps , if the contextual source of his authenticity is a delusional, entitled and outraged fool
@ Thanks for providing an excellent example of an invalid, inauthentic take.
It's wild to see someone so doom and gloom about PoE2 if they were a big fan of PoE1.
Does no one remember how bad PoE1 was compared to how good it became?
Where did all of the good will for GGG go in 2 months?
It will get better. I think even with the patch they made in 2 weeks the game got significantly better.
We want 3.26....
Then ggg can fix their shit the next few years
It doesn’t matter how much time they need, as long as they move in the right direction.
@@Zemlja_je_ravna You should check out this really cool game called Star Citizen. You might be interested in supporting them!
5:02 true. there's just a type of people that magically thinks if "I play alot" then you "need to update alot". but the truth is you playing someone else's creation. you're just a "user". it's just people self centered so a point they can't see anything 5 cm away from them
i think alot of the issues poe 2 has comes from design choices like chasing rares to finish a map or crafting being identify with extra steps the fact that they think those mechanics are fun worries me
agree with a lot of Ben's critiques but this melodramatic whining is just ridiculous. "i dont know why POE2 exists" come on.
POE1 vets really cannot get it through their heads just how offputting and overwhelming POE1 is to new players. Both in perception and reality. The playernumbers speak for themselves. POE1 is a game where there really isn't that much more room to do much, development wise. It's a solved game. It's the best ARPG out there but it's bloated, clunky, dated, unintuitive, and is built on an engine Jonathan coded in a garage. It is extremely obvious why POE2 exists and why they wanted to make a new game.
The thing is it doesnt feel like a new game at endgame and thats the main problem, it just feels like a worse poe1, they copy and pasted mechanics into it that dont work well. If they wanted to make a new game then they should have made new mechanics that work for the core of the game.
@@quincestopher8892it’s base game. Leagues haven’t started and they clearly need test data before implementation… it’s ridiculous to expect them to have more than they currently do.
We don’t even know what they have behind the scenes. People need to brake and stop talking. And simply wait for them to release more content. If it sucks, go play a different game.
@@Mduffy-yo6rb Why do the glazers always jump to "more" when its not about the breadth of content available. The problem is what is there is fundamentally not good, and if you've been paying attention to the interviews over the years it all seems very intentional and in line with what Jonathan has been saying.
2:40 guys can i get those builds with combos?
because everywhere I go... i see his face (the face in question: howa + Invictus + int stack + HoI)
Who gives a shit if POE 1 took years to make better, it started in a godamn garage. This is a triple-a product.
NGL, I'm not really a part of the PoE community, I dunno who this guy is, but it sounds like he knows a lot about Path of Exile and almost nothing about making games.
He mentions things like Delve in a list of things that people can do when it comes to crafting/obtaining items, but in my incredibility limited experience of PoE, I played Delve league, and my understanding is, that mechanic did not exist in the game until that league.
So doesn't it feel appropriate to compare base PoE to base PoE2? or is he expecting every mechanic from PoE1 to be launched with PoE2?
it makes no sense to compare poe2 to poe of 10 years ago when both are co existing and further more, made by the SAME COMPANY
im new to poe. i went into this game really excited and impressed by the insanely wide variety of build options. now i have depression.
I agree with a lot that he says, but I really don't want poe2 to turn into poe1 with the issue of speed. I like slow paced combat but the map size makes slow paced characters feel horrible to play. Also, the reason why GGG hasn't done many changes is because Xmas and New Years happened immediately after they launched EA. Hopefully after the next big patch they release they will start cranking out new additions, and faster paced game changes.
At the moment POE is worst in every aspect, including the combat, especially late. The campaign is insanely good
It's fun.
I just dipped my tippy toe in the PoE2 community and already I'm getting critiques recommanded.
Welp, see you all never.
I disagree saying that poe2 has many combos. Bell is essentially a damage and aoe buff, staggering palm is a buff, the skill that culls for power charge so you can use charged staff is also a buff. So it's 4 skills just for buffs and 1 skill to actually attack. Maybe some people will use the wind skill to get enemies primed for stun for easier staggering palm, but it's all around adding buffs to just one skill anyways
hehe sounds like me press 4 flask and berserk before me using my vaal double strike in poe 1 :D
@sassysaddles9981 Yeah, both games are mostly about using other skills/mechanics to buff the main skill, or to unlock it's use. It does depend on how you look at it, as to some it means "combos" while to me it's just buffs for main skills with extra steps.
His frustration stems from these issues not being addressed at all yet, but GGG is at a point where vastly changing this stuff is kinda late to do it willy nilly. The major changes will come in some sort of new league or reset of some sort. They said they won't wipe but alluded to a fresh start of some sort, so consider it a league, idk what they'll call it but that's what I'm expecting.
After analyzing and reanalyzing Ben's video, I came to a conclusion, Ben is precocious.
I feel like people are missing a huge issue here that I dont really see being said. The early access was only supposed to be 6~ months. The game is not only nowhere near finished, but like Ben said, there has been no update for 2 months. If the game needs to be tested and new characters and items need to be added, imagine how far the game is from being finished. If it is to be completed in 6 months, I cant imagine the end game design changing much at all prior to release. They can add a few more systems, but how much would it change the inherent design flaws of the game?
100% truth.
The acts are great, mapping.... I have to force myself to even do them at all. I'm playing the way GGG wants me to... slower, more deliberate but maps do not seem to be made for that... seems like the only way to play is clear the whole screen before a white mob can one tap ya with a skill from off screen.
God don't even get me started about the layouts and lack of clarity for mobs.
As many have said time and time again. The end game is basically in alpha state. The reason the campaign feels so good is because thats what has been fully ironed out while the end game has not. This is early access. Odds are that the end game will end up feeling as good as acts 1-3 eventually. We are missing 50% of the classes, weapon options are missing, skills and support skills are missing. This is like complaining that a 3000 piece puzzle does not look at all like the picture when you put 2 of the 3000 pieces together.
@@TheHollowBlade The other weapon types missing doesn't excuse the sorry state mace is in. It doesn't excuse how broken the likes of Archmage is. Axes existing won't fix either of those issues.
And end-game-wise, they've started down a path. How much can they deviate from it now? Because a lot of the issues are deeply ingrained in various systems. You just don't realize it as much during the campaign. You lack the points. You lack access to certain types of gear. And you're going through the story, so you're a bit more focused on story progression than being crazy powerful. It's only once the lack of direction goes away, and you're left with map clearing, mostly for trade purposes, that everything becomes about speed and power. But at the same time, there is still a lot of imbalance even at act 1 levels.
Basically, the end game is pretty bad, in part because, yes, they brought over a bunch of PoE1 ideas not properly adapted to PoE2, but beyond that, there are core issues with the design that aren't related to "the end game", yet here they are.
being colorblind in this game is a fucking curse fr...you can barely see shit in some maps. i love the game, and i played poe1 a bit too...but seeing some things implemented in poe2 the way they are, you just wondering "what the fuck were they thinking"
@ there are lots of support skills missing too. Who knows if there are some skills coming that will make mace much better. And maces and crossbows sucking is a fair complaint, but to doom and gloom like poe2 is a dead game because build variety is bad at this time is so cringe. We all signed up for EARLY ACCESS, and the devs made it very clear that the game would be funky. We can doom and gloom if the game is total ass once everything in the game is complete and its fully launched. But its been 2 months..
Act are great because they are new. Right now it's like three times longer than poe1 and I can't imagine it being a good thing in like 4 seasons.
Imo one of the biggest problem regarding maps(aside from the map size being huge for no reason) is that the sense of progress is BORING AND SLOW AS FUCK HOLY HELL.
Like in poe1 you need to beat 101 maps with different layouts(excluding unique maps) to "complete" the atlas. In poe2 the same 101 maps would take you to tier 10-11 and most of these maps would be repeated. On top of that, there's a chance that by the time you reach tier 15-16 in poe2 you are still playing with base mechanics because you didn't got lucky with bosses so you have 0 juiced mechanics. Meanwhile in poe1 by the time you are in tier 10 you can already have at least half of your atlas points and can already have some mechanics being juiced.
The way endgame maps are structured right now completely killed my will to play poe2. It feels pointless and the fact that's just one button being pressed all the time is even worse because then I can just play poe1... In fact my builds in poe2 are even more one-sided than the ones I played in poe1 like ben said. FFs in my AFK CWS RF Chieftain build press the same amount of buttons that I do on my deadeye, invoker and stormweaver TOGETHER. For these 3 I only press one button each, so 3 buttons(which are all RMB or LMB) plus spacebar for dodge. For the afk chieftain it's one for shield dash, one for penitance curse, one for flamedash/frostblink, one for vaal breach.
As bad as melee feels in poe2 it is worse in poe 1. There's no feeling of impact in poe1. I don't think we can go back.
Edit: complete aside, being to mark item bases with item level for affinity tabs would be amazing
Exactly poe1 melee is awful I get people love the game and I do too, but at this point I have no desire to play any more of it and poe2 will be my arpg going forward. I think people who no life one game end up just wanting everything to be that game
@@via_negativa6183 I’ve seen this with a lot of people who played one game for tons of time.
They’re so used to it that they think any game working differently is just bad.
For most of quarterstaff skill, yeah. I really wish there is a thing like Tempest fury and Ice Strike in PoE1.
But for most Mace skill, current(3.25) PoE1 melee is definitely way better than that.
I start with Sunder in PoE1 this league, it's feel uncomparable better to use in PoE1 than PoE2.
There is a difference because PoE 1 melee is unplayable.
The game went from being the savior of gaming, to being doomed in like a week lol. I'm glad I'm not a game dev.
It’s called the honey moon period, people have good reasons to be disappointed by poe2. Most of the issues exist because GGG doesn’t know that difficulty is not just unfair on-death effects, cheap one-shit mechanics and overpowered ground effects (invisible fire ground killed my lvl 90 monk within 3 seconds, 4500 eHP)
Everyone admits that game is good, but it is not what we asked for.
Anecdotally speaking: i think PoE1 players are MASSIVELY underestimating how big of a deal it is POE2 exists to non POE1 players. The amount of ppl i know who tried or are actively still trying poe2 that woule never touch poe1 with a stick is massive. THAT ALONE makes it worth for GGG to invest in.
So what? For a lot of people Diablo Immortal is big deal and worth investing into. The game is trash that is the problem, that some normies find it a big deal is irrelevant
PoE1 players are just whiny AF. They're both so good if you're open to change.
@ diablo immortal is a P2W mobile game with insane polish-for a mobile game-how in any world did you think this was a proper comparison to my point?