SaltEMike Reacts to Inside Star Citizen: Dev Diary - Server Meshing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- The Video - • Inside Star Citizen: ...
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"When it works, it works really well" -the mantra of Star Citizen
What is this, a true crime documentary? "But what the investigators soon discovered was that he was having an affair with the barista, casting his alibi into doubt..."
might as well be actually xd
It's more something like "Crash Investigation".
There is no way 4.0 lands this year. Whenever something "worked great" at CIG it means we are way off still.
whenever they talk without anything to show you know they are just getting it started.
Not sure if you read the comments Mike. There are tons of companies out that have done server meshing in different ways. One of my favorites to example is: Life is Feudal. They had static server meshing. 100 servers across a single game world. each server made up 1km squared of area. You could walk across the servers seamlessly, shoot projectiles across them at other players (like spears or arrows). You could see people on the other side etc. The only thing they didn't allow: You couldn't build structures within 50ft or so of the server invisible border.
Anyways, one of my favorite games, thought I'd share an example of how CIG is not that special. :)
Scale. That is a thing
Also the old dude with the commodore 64 shirt is a vet in that studio, dude has probably seen it all at this point
I Immediately went online and bought a Commodore 64 t shirt
Good call, now we just need a Clive T-Shirt and life complete o7
I found this very interesting. I am a developer so I understand how the process works and this is a great achievement no matter what the laymen say.
glazer
Yeah, everyone is a developer
Huhuhudurdur I'm a developer... calm down Einstein, I'm a lawyer and even I avoid the world laymen unless I must disprove something absurd.
@@Tentacl It is not an insult. It is a word properly used in this context. Development cycles are complex and do not show their fruits until later after the framework is done.
If you take offense to a word you have issues. How about you look the word up Mr. Lawyer.
These videos have a lot of complaining about things they do not know all of the details of.
As a lawyer you should understand this. But you probably are not a lawyer.
@@realWorsin Yeah. And that's why it's easy to convince people you are working to either run with their money or use VERY shady marketing to make people believe the game will be the 2nd coming of christ because CIG just NEVER say simply "no, our game won't do X".
The fact that developing is not transparent makes it closer to a LOT of other industries, this isn't an unique trait at all.
So nothing new to say on server meshing, got it.
Diary
You missed the meaning behind the title saying “diary”
That’s a bingo.
what made you think this would be a video about new things and not a "dev diary". Id prefer news too but they never said this would be news...
English is not my mother language but still I’ve understood better the purpose of the video.
They seem like code guys slogging through code. Shit happens in project management. Even NASA messes up. As long as they push through and get there, we'll all forgive them. Once we have that product that plays like a finished game.
"I'm actually excited for this" after shitting on what you think the video is gonna say for a minute and a half.
If you look at all the senior networking guys, and then take note that they are mostly older engineers, it goes to show the range of knowledge this tech invention is requiring.
For some reason it just tickled me that at 1:16 at the end of "a series of tests" they're spotlighting a little orange "benchy".
Well, there was a benchy in somebody's desktop 3D printer. Were they 'spotlighting' it? I don't think so. Was it new? Who knows. Could have been sitting there for months or years.
I thought the structure of this Dev Log was great, and i enjoyed overall vibe the Devs had about their work. The future looks great !
His voice is perfect for the history channel. Gots to do this more because im getting a kick out of it
25:20 Thing is, that likely has nothing to do with Server Meshing. These issues at zone boundaries, like where the planet zone rotates, have been in the game since 3.0 when zones and planets were introduced. It is just that it was easy now to find the zone boundaries and it became noticeable and people attributed it falsely to Server Meshing.
As someone who just got their Flight Sticks from VKB, I am happy for this moral boosting episode
You’re happy you got your joystick just as they made joysticks pointless?
In the words of Han Solo (or Christopher Pike if your a Trekkie) “punch it”!
Also words of Han Solo, pertinent to SC - 'IT'S NOT MY FAULT!'
25:08 is that the Tactical Advance dude from last decade?
I love at the end where they're like, "No other companies would have the patience to do this" and "We're the only ones capable of doing this" and Intrepid Studios release their Server Meshing Alpha Two for Ashes of Creation video yesterday and it was seriously comprehensive kinda like CIG's at CitizenCon.
CIG isn't as cutting edge in 2024 as they'd like to have us believe.
They should say "No other BACKERS would have the patience to do this"
CIG just copied what SpatialOS did and they dont even know? You want to tell me they didnt do their research beforehand and stumbled upon that solution? Yeah, right. Then they might actually be as incompetent as certain people like to claim.
The video they put out seemed to be more about development of crash recovery than meshing.
Crash recovery is meshing servers over time rather than space. Literally. They use the same pathway that is the replication layer.
I got an actual produced video ad for a UEC sale site in this vid. Thats wild, have we made it to the next level?
It's funny how CIG staff says that everything works well, but people who participated in all server meshing tests say it's broken and buggy.
Cig damage control over other upcoming games revealing that they also have this tech (ashes, dune, ...). Gotta keep the myth of magic tech alive!
Mike Citizen is my favorite Star Reactor. SERVER MASHING IS COMING
The servers are already mashed, we want them meshed instead.
"Soon"
There's an intermediary layer their working on now, replication server masking layer.. it's super high tech.
Mike thanks for keeping it 100 about this game that you accurately say has a "cult" of a community around it!
They can mesh all they want. I don't care if there are only 3 players on the server, I just want it to work. I had to try 5 different servers tonight until I was able to put on an undersuit. It's out of control.
Wouldn't the bolt that went into the planets gravity and flying away consider as working? The planet is rotating and the bold should just go zoom past.
serious question.. the guys over at CIG are trying someting new. Whats funny? 14:15 The way you laughed at this effort makes me think as if you have a better idea? I actually liked the format, apologies to those who feels otherwise.
Don't you know Mike always knows better and knows everything???
Mike doesn't lie. He crys. ❤
Salty Mike DUMPS salt on video before starting, “Take everything here with a grain of salt”
1 minute in, more salt 😂
This cig vid is literally just hot air - it's almost fascinating how they have nothing and keep on rambling about it
LOL! Cue the dramatic dark music as a dev wearing a plaid shirt saunters over to his workstation and opens his laptop! Dun, dun, DUNNNNN!!!!! :)
How are we gonna twist this one into being negative, ill have to check the coments to find out.
Is all of this just a timed documentary to counter Ashes of Creations recent tech coverage of their Intrepid Net server meshing?
i thought that too the timing is just weird tbh
Tbf. Jared announced this episode much earlier than the ashes presentation. But it's hard the ignore the coincidence either way
That new true-crime show is fire!!!
Wake me up when they get it working.
All that the video is missing is the law and order transition sound effect, Jared missed an opportunity lol
What do people keep comparing the games server meshing to ashes of creation that game is no where near the scope/size of star citizen
Because people want to play games not write comments about how this game is doing things no other game is doing, or that their scale is so large that it takes 12 years to make an MMO with 100 players…
@@saltemikereacts are you not constantly playing the game? And you know better than most the game is going to have way over 100 player servers take a break stop supporting just stop complaining 24/7
If 4.0 needs server meshing, bet you wont see 4.0 till the very end of 2025 or beginning of 2026 at the earliest. get ready for patch 3.25 and 2.26
technically correct is still correct. Having it is better then not. And really they already have it, they already tested it and multiple configurations of DGSs, just in the tech preview channel. Now its ironing out bugs and problems. The foundations is there.
I just think it’s funny they posted this video on server meshing the day after ashes of creations just posted their functioning server meshing but to only give us a recap and nothing new
It may seem like odd timing, but this episode was completed a while ago and was preemptively announced as coming out today.
A 50 million dollar building for 30 people
And you wonder where all the money goes
Buildings and boats
Car tires and meatballs
Wake me up when dynamic server meshing is in the game.
Todd Howard would be proud, all they need to do now is release squadron 42 as is and let modders fix it, and then once everyone realizes the mods are the bees knees, make them a paid service.. it just works
When a programmer sais it work, they mean from their POV not the players.
Is it just me, or is Jared doing his best Casey Kasem impersonation?
What CIG is doing is beyond Ashes server meshing. Same concept but no comparison in scale and complexity. Dynamic will be a crazy amount of technical configurations.
found the cult member.
As a network person, Ashes server meshing is actually significantly more impressive. The "replication layer" mesh is just another bottleneck that doesn't work at scale which is why intrepid aren't using it.
@@gametouchcontroller730 I dont even think thats true.
Second Life had direct server-to-server connections 20 years ago but AoC phrased it as if it is a new invention and a better solution over the replication service in the middle. Even tho the latter one is the new approach.
Even more funny: it might just be me but you know what I heard from AoCs explanations: "we dont have one large replication server, instead we have many small ones because we ran into the same problems everyone else did and why they ended up with a replication service". Great! Hilarious!
You know what this reminds me of? Star Citizen's planned Replication Layer V2. Yep. The current large single Replication Layer is going to be split into many smaller (micro) services to manage replication, authority and other aspects like missions, AI, etc.
So really, the only difference in AoCs solution is that game state isnt routed through a separate replication service to the clients. It is routed through the game server. Which at that point acts like the replication service. But kind of worse because now each game server has to do the replicating instead of a separate service which you could scale independently. This solution is the exact same CIG implemented and tested internally in 2020 and failed because it wasnt scaleable. Likely because of this exact reason. You cant expect servers to take in data from dozens of other servers and sift through what they need. You can do that much better in a separate service which you can scale independently.
@@justacat472found the sheep
@@SETHthegodofchaosit's not about strictly direct server to server connections. It's about the virtual and physical topology being used. Every large scale network topology is a full mesh for this exact reason. CiG as far as their explanations go has very little parallelism. AoCs explanation makes perfect sense. In either case both of their explanations are reflective of the current architectural performance.....CiGs current approach is not very scalable.l due to the replication service being a single endpoint of network destination. At least that's how they've explained it and also how it seems to function which makes sense
Is the idea for EACH system to have their own BGS???
It's dgs for dedicated game server. The idea is to have dynamic mesh. Based on no of players in an area. The no of dgs scales up or down. Example. All moons managed by one dgs and each planet has its own dgs. Main cities has multiple dgs manage different areas in the city.
@@Bala2289 Thanks for the explanation. It's all clear now. Good luck to them! :)
We never did find out who died.
12 people! 😂 Its such a big company now! Put like 30 on it surely?
6:50 if its not working then its the problem; when it works it works lmao......
So where's the part where they talk about server meshing?
Mike, I appreciate you pointing out the the good stuff and and the bad stuff. this is what I'm talking about! Bro I'm rolling! We have been murdered ☠️☠️
This is original content. 🤙
for something that they say "it worked" we know we are still years away xd
Not that I’m defending their comments here, but the server meshing team thinks that the test has gone very well and that their core TECH is plugging in well.
If you have a problem with where the planets lineup and what happens after the laser transfers from one mesh to another, that might be a different problem. Does that make sense?
100% but we as players can only speak on our experiences, just like they speak on theirs right?
The difference between theoretical and realistic. We are in the realistic world. The devs on the pther hand....
I was there for the several minutes before actions took effect, i can vouch as well.
Still expecting that Sherlock Holmes and Doc Whatson to step into the room and solve the murder mystery of the murdered server mesh(mess). Jared should be wearing the high hat and monocle and a pipe in mouth, when visually narating this BIG puzzle!.....the case of the F up server meshing incidence is still one of these unresolved mysteries of the 21rst century! will Jack the ripper mystery be solved before the server meshing mystery???? time will tell!!!
Tonight, on CIG in 48hrs...
What trials you say? They did one a week or two ago remember? It was open to all backers
And I explained why it wasn’t new…
I am watching this instead of ISC, CIG doesn’t deserve my view for this.
Do you think the 4.0 patch will get split up like the ambitious attempt that was 2.23? hmm
4.0 in Q3? It's already Q3. No chance 4.0 will be released this quarter when they don't even have 3.24 released yet.
It's also funny that Mike chastises people for complaining about CIG not following through with predictions and timelines when he himself is the king of doing so, has done so recently and I'm betting will do so again.
CIG tried so hard to reinvent the wheel and found out they have to do the same EXACT thing as every other meshing game or program. there is no difference other than game....
their cashe dumping is good but it need to be improved!!!! if they dont have it yet they need a code breaker program as well because when you change a bit of code something somewhere else winds up broken and this can be red flagged with the program
i swear there was a server meshing test on a 3.22 build like a week or 2 ago? to test a "more optimal hardware config" , thats what jared meant by the "more tests by the time this is aired" comment
I dig it. Normally I'm inclined to be cynical and poke a bit of fun at CIG, but this time they are reinventing the wheel for an actual reason and not just to be different and waste time they don't have.
I think the first game to come out with server mesh tech will be GTA 6 online, mark my words.
Lol - murder mistery meets server meshing 🤣🤣🤣
Seconds before Disaster? 😜
I love the meshing lies. They will not get it to work with any consistency, the way they are trying to do it is absolutely foolish hence why no one has done it. Without time dilation having multiple areas on the same map on a real time environment you will absolutely have intende desync between servers. Hell the desync between the replication layer and a single server should be all the proof people need. And time dilation on the level they would need to manage tick rates across servers would make a first person game unplayable
You mentioned watching an Ashes of Creation video at the beginning. Any chance you have a link?
I’m not at home now July fourth but just Google Ashes of Creation server Meshing
@@saltemikereacts Thanks, was a stupid question to ask 😅. When I went to look it up it kept giving me CCs. Some scrolling fixed that.
They don't even show it working do they?
They don't show a lot of things. Like the devs in these comments on alt accounts glazing themselves to any naysayer.
@CaravanSam At this point I really was hoping they would have something to show, more then the tech demo they've shown in the past.
Even if it was the server crashing repeatedly. Show us something.
@@Skeeters_Lint you could have tried it yourself you know, so it's not fake whatsoever
@@ironwar8501I never said it was fake.I just want them to show it to us working. Is it still limited access for who can get on evo?
It just works? Is CIG the new Apple?
The music stings tho!
16:15 - Is the Ollie?
poor say..they need stop add things...and polish what they have before..meshing all togheter..
So question Mike, how many hours were put in by the QA and dev dept. compared to the people who played Evo? Aren't they aware that when the first PTU EVO is released that not everything is going to go as planned because players do things the des couldn't imagine we'd do?
I don’t work there man I can’t answer that question lol
This game is FAR from stable. There is no victory to claim here. Excited to see server meshing progress but the "door opening lag" problem happens all the time. The client de-synch and sudden death events happen all the time. I'm all for progress but I'm not sure we can claim victory over as of yet...I think they do a lot of happy path automated testing and not enough game-breaking testing...
Oh god is mike gonna be on the verge of tears every server meshing video...🐑
i think its insane they dditen start with 1 planet finish that one made it work copy this planet out to multi system whare you can changes coler or size an so on than this game will have been done 4 years ago
insted they start to build on 20 system an dont get anywhare who dos stuff like that ???
its logic if you want to make system to work you need 1 planet to work first before you start build another system..
100 system not going to happen in the next 1.0 for shure maybe in 2.0 orsomthing but it not going to happen if not they can fix 1 system.
Old 30k recovery was better than server recovery *shrug* was nice keeping my ship, inventory, and cargo............................................
100% but it isn’t all there yet.
I absolutely HATE the new YTB interface on PC, my god it fucking SUCKS.
Apparently its only temporary, its reverting afaik
To sum up this video is CIG marketing putting lipstick on a pig and calling it a swan.
Nuff said.
Edit. Hey Even BoredGamer is getting in on the "punching the chair" ... check his comment. Poor taste, IMHO.
What did he say?
@@bestLetsplayer "Looking forward to this! My chair is gonna get sooo punched." Of course poking fun at Mike.
I just cant care about jumping to Pyro. It seems a lot like Stanton but less diverse and interesting. Still gonna be the same low quality gameplay content.
oh you are so wrong in this my friend
YUGE MILESTONE
Just to let you know ..... I'm not watching you now ..... but later I will.
shit is more like a reality tv show then it is anything else it feels like lol just deliver the game already
Wow comment section is filled with jaded backers and newb armchair devs who thinks server meshing in all game are same. Even mike saying aoc server mesh is same as sc is bad. Nothing wrong with this episode. They have done the impossible so let them talk about it. I remember backers complaining where is episode 2 of server meshing. Now thats its here. Somehow everyone knows all about sm and dont care about this episode.
As far as Ashes of Creation ( which I am a huge fan of). They do have server meshing but the scale of Star Citizen is on entirely different level. I do not think Ashes meshing could handle Star Citizen particuarly with the advent of 4.0 coming
Ashes meshing is made for Ashes not Star Citizen, 2 different games 2 different implementation, at least Ashes shows it working in game and doesn't plan on their servers crashing.
@@Skeeters_Lint Well yes obviously, that was not what I was implying. But that alse proved my point. Ashes is by far on a much smaller scale in every concivable way.
So it would make sense that it would take far less time, and even theirs took years.
People keep comparing Ashes with Sc, it is just dynamically not in the same playing field.
It is like flag football vs the NFL, yes it is football. But they are widley seperated on all levels
@@CopperRavenProductions Ashes isn't tracking as much as SC is planning on tracking that's for sure, but SC should be much further along with this at this point then they are. Just the fact that Ashes has been working on it for less time and actually have something to show is telling.
@@Skeeters_Lint I think Squadren 42 really slowed sc down significantly. With it in its final stages, you can see a clear jump in the progress of SC.
@@CopperRavenProductions It did, by alot. That's why it turned into an all hands on deck project.
Ready for a bunch of new incorrect assumptions from you.. lets go..
It is NOT exact same thing, and NOT slightly different way.
Cant compare it. It is like comparing 2D scribbles moving on paper to 3D objects moving and interacting. Sure they are both moving, but the level of difficulty is a dimension apart.
ashes of creation made server meshing ? because they put out a dev diary saying they did even tho it is completely untested ... unproven.. well now mike.. why don't you hold them to the same standard you hold CIG to ? at least CIG has done testing of some of the systems for their tech. but they still haven't done it , and ashes has done it ? wild .. I didn't think tech announcement trailers means you did something..
I did…
@@saltemikereactsyou sure about that ? "We just watched a video where ashes did it with 8 people."
Hilarious, I was just calling the trolls in game chat cultists. Every time anybody criticizes anything, they dogpile and bully its crazy 🤪
i was astonished to hear that their own QA team didn't know server meshing was being tested.... seriously, wtf?? why have QA at all?
🎉🎉🎉
4.0 .... what a joke.
is it me or less and less of the game is actually being talked about, feels off, feels like bloat.
"Server Meshing"... wasn't that supposed to be finished in 2017 or something? lol
Jared is sounding more and more like a used car salesman.
They realized that it's extremely hard to do. Much harder than expected.
@@deejnutz2068
Ashes did it. Why can't they?
Wtf
I think they didn't even talked about it on those years
Jared has the hardest job in the world. Trying to keep us engaged and upbeat whilst stuck between the speed of light marketing and the speed of geology development pace.
I think he does a great job. Even when he makes me bite the skin off my knuckles.
Lol Imagine comparing ashes with sc. One is a map Game the other IS a whole Solarsystem and more...
Ashes did it before Star Citizen lol
How much more pathetic can their development get. Deserve it for making two games and not just putting the money back into the PU. Also where the Fuck is chapter one of Squadron? Does it even exist. Pathetic!
Yet I still want the game to do well since there is no other space game and I’ve spent money….. holy crap…
The challenges of server meshing in a basic MMO and server meshing in solar system sized environments with procedural planets are completely incomparable. Criticism is warranted, but let's keep it fair.
@@drksideofthewal ah yes the old
This is basic and I need to insult it to defend my game vs the advanced game on a 12+ year old engine with 3x years of development. Regardless, the facts are facts. Therefore, it’s fair to say their development is pathetic. Still hope it succeeds in another 12 years so I can play it and my money spent on a ship or two wasn’t a wasted “investment”. If you couldn’t tell their trash development and management decisions have made me salty and a white knight I am no longer.
@@Vioblight
I didn't even insult the other game, you're getting weirdly defensive. If you don't understand the fundamental technical differences between SC and this other game, then your criticism doesn't hold much water. The "white knights" could accuse you of being a blind hater... and they would be correct. Imagine being less rational than a white knight.
@@drksideofthewal hahaha ok man. Hey, I’ve come back for patches over and over with constant disappointment and delays. You bring up some decent points I’ll consider. Yet the way I feel about their failures is unchanged. I’ll have to be less emotional and more rational in my complaint comments in the future. Nice chat and may server meshing develop.
Careful, the devs and their glazers are all over comments like these with their alt accounts. They'll hit you with baseless zingers to make you look like the bad guy.
DEV Diarhea
They all say the same thing over and over. New information????
Is it that time again for salty mike to complain for 35 minutes and call it content?