voidheim Well, that's basically what we are trying to do where I'm from. So far it's worked out fairly well for the most part. So, it's definitely possible:)
It would have justified the fact that it was made by a woman. I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm alluding to a quip she made in part 2 about female representation in movies I'm kidding.
@@MrLeafeater Lindsay Ellis came into my home with the promise of freshly baked lembas and then refused to leave until I had watched her entire documentary triology. I've been BAMBOOZLED.
@@MrLeafeater It's amazing how many people will insult a guy leaving a sarcastic comment for being stupid when they just miss the joke and keep on going
WB does make a good Saruman. Puts up this facade of a the good guy in white with their products, but really is conniving conglomerate manipulating things behind the scenes to their own benefit.
The way Lindsay managed to tie together Harper Lee, The Hobbit Trilogy and Ke$ha through this saga via foreshadowing and clever misdirection is the reason she will be missed on TH-cam.
@@Ceaseless_Cischarge Raya & the last dragon was a rip off of Avatar the last air bender and SO disappointing of a film, I’m sad to hear that’s the movie that did it, as I truly thought it was horrible, boring and honesty cliche as hell
And, cautionarily, how when their home was reclaimed, rather than equitably split some of the spoils with others who had suffered under the monster, greed consumed the soul of their leader causing his downfall, as well.
This is easily noticed, because plot holes can tell hidden (mostly quite ironic) narratives, which can be extrapolated outside of the fiction and into real-life stories of whatever their counterparts (in whole) are constructed upon. But when it's so perfect...you know there is a real good plot.
I just re-read the Hobbit recently to my kids, and this message is emphasized in the book. In fact, to me the most powerful conflict in the book is between the greed of the dwarfs, elves and humans and their better natures. The danger is not the goblins or the dragon, it's that the dwarfs might become like the goblins and the dragon. And Bilbo's real value to the party is that he steers them from that. Giving away the Arkenstone to Bard over the temptation to keep it for himself is his most heroic moment, and the act that saves Thorin. That's also, of course, the tension at the core of LotR - greed vs sacrifice. Of course, none of that made it into the movie.
The dwarves are hard-working miners, soldiers and artisans which got their labour value stolen by one big dragon, powerful, rich, and greedy. The elven aristocracy didn't want to commit to the fight, and stood back, and the men, which are largely a small bourgeois society, were also driven to poverty by the dragon. The working class dwarves attacked the beast, but only middle class men, capable of creating a ruling class, could kill the dragon. Only together, in the end, the three freed themselves from the fascist orc backlash. Made by Labour gang
"Hey, some TH-camr is taking shots at the Hobbit trilogy. Lets watch that, thats just bound to be fun!" 90 minutes later: "Great, now I hate the entire concept of being an adult."
It's not specifically about being an adult, it's about internalizing the shittiness of others in the stuff you like. Without the shittiness, those bad feels will go away.
@@Zetimenvec Since most stuff is corrupted in one way or another I just avoid paying for the most part. Thrift shops, borrowing stuff from friends, torrents. As long as I don't give money to the bad people or companies, I feel pretty good. Not that my money even matters to them. I support judging art separately from the artist. Otherwise there's not much to watch or enjoy. And I would have to do research on everything before I even try it. However if I really enjoy something and it seems legit, I will pay, especially if it's something smaller where my money might actually have an impact, like a kickstarter.
@@Evija3000 Honestly, that's the best argument for pirating and sharing among friends: because the utterly horrible human beings profiting off of the poverty and suffering of others when they're already filthy rich don't deserve another cent from us.
No, it wasn't. It NEVER was. International Conglomerates have ALWAYS "exploited" people by producing where it's cheapest and selling where they earn the most. That's how capitalism works and it doesn't change by ignoring that fact.
Writing in from Aotearoa/New Zealand here, I just wanted to add in another bit of this story, a bit that gets particularly heartbreaking to me. Helen Kelly, then the leader of our Council of Trade Unions, fought for the actors pretty publicly, which she was harassed for extensively by the general public. Years later, when she was in the final stages of a battle with terminal cancer (and all the while publicly fighting for the rights of cancer patients and end of life legislation. long story short Helen Kelly was incredible), people continued to harass her over the Hobbit thing. People sent her hate mail while she was in hospital, saying--among other things--that they hoped she'd die slowly and painfully. Because she stood up for the rights of film workers. I grew up in a post-LOTR NZ where Peter Jackson's always been this like...near-deified national hero of the arts. He was absolutely, deliberately involved in the vilification of her and the union movement and knowing that he's involved with that makes his films pretty well unwatchable. Jackson's main hobby at the moment, for anyone wondering, is bribing the Wellington City Council to prevent the construction of affordable and social housing to preserve the city's "Character."
One of the saddest things is that you get the sense from John that they thought they could have made an incredible movie, but so much got in the way and stole that opportunity from them.
Yeah, it's sad. Both on a grander scale regarding what the movie could have been and on a personal level regarding what the actors went through. The way he talked about the beginning of shooting... they thought they'd be playing important roles in an amazing movie that focused on the hobbit and the brotherhood of dwarves. And they created an actual sense of brotherhood between the actors, they did their part, and they were excited. And then they had to wait, and wait, and film a little, and wait, and wait again, and get involved in a political mess, and get treated like trash in the end...
@@Evija3000 yeah, I got that sense of a ‘band of brothers’ feeling amongst the actors when I had the pleasure of working on the premiere and media junket on the first movie. After seeing behind the scenes of weta and the ‘buzz’ about town, I thought it was going to be a win for everyone, but it seems to have turned out similar to my experience with studios.
Yeah, pretty scary isn't it? On a similar note, did you know that the tobacco industry similarly has sued countries up to Australia (but many times small, third-world, countries that have many times less GDP than the companies responsible) for making legislature requiring blank boxes and warnings and pictures of symptoms of prolonged smoking usage (as a step up to what we see in the US, for example, where tobacco companies cannot have advertisements and have to have a safety and health warning on the box)? Also, also, here's the wording of the relevant part of the labor laws that got changed in relation to WB's negotiations that I picked up in these comment threads: "Here's a direct quote from the Employement Relations Act 2000 (I.e. the law that outlines employee's rights to annual leave, maternity, work hours, breaks etc in NZ) "In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires, employee- (a) means any person of any age employed by an employer to do any work for hire or reward under a contract of service *excludes in relation to a film production, any of the following persons:* (i) *a person engaged in film production work as an actor, voice-over actor, stand-in, body double, stunt performer, extra, singer, musician, dancer, or entertainer:* (ii) *a person engaged in film production work in any other capacity.*" So if you are a person engaged in film production work to any capacity, in relation to any film production work, you do not have employee rights in NZ, legally.
All a part of colonialism. That's how it's always been. It was effectively companies that started colonizing the new world, and companies from the US that started neo-colonizing ALL of latin-america. This sadly isn't new, but I keep learning about new ways colonial rules of engagement seep into every bit of our culture the more we just let rampant capitalism run our lives. It's low key depressing.
The very first corporation was created in the Netherlands in the 1600s. They'd invented the stock market one year earlier and the government had already combined all the free-market competing companies into a giant monopoly, the Dutch East India company. The govt granted it the right to wage wars because it's business was invading Indonesia. So the very first Capitalist country in history immediately destroyed the free market and encouraged colonialism through multinationals, all with the government's help.
@Benny TheJet "Unendless" greed... so you're saying that the socialists' greed DOESN'T not... have an end? So you mean that it does have an end? I don't see what the problem is there, honestly. Sound like good people.
@Benny TheJet you're spending your time commenting on youtube videos about The Hobbit movies... that is not what capitalist fat cats do in their spare time, so I can only assume you're an average guy like the rest of us. that means "evil communist" concepts such as raising the minimum wage and protesting against unfair work conditions would benefit your life far more than whatever capitalist dream you're deluded into defending. calling the actual protestors and activists 'garbage' whilst enjoying the benefits from a history of worker protests and rights activists since the industrial revolution... no sir, you're the one who is garbage.
After the first video: wow, she makes great points! The Hobbit really was quite average and badly structured! After the second: Omg I remember this controversy about Del Toro and the producers, I wonder what the truth really was! After the third: Lying in bed considering every product I've ever purchased and media I consume, subscribed to Lindsay Ellis, nostalgic for Lotr, and not considering re-watching the Hobbit movies for a very long time...
i never really cared for hobbit anyway. it was mediocre af, especially being compared to LOTR and its obvious people that are working there isnt really having any fun whatsoever. it was CLEARLY controlled by the big bad company men and women. its quite sad really
@@johans3164 Yeah I think I definitely didn't realise the extent to which it was bad BECAUSE of the production... I mean I was only 10 years old when they were first released, but man it hurts realising exactly why they went to shit and thinking about the potential it could have had :(
@@clairematthews8524 it sucks for the people to learn about it. especially if they are a fan, like you. but thats the ultimate question of the world. would we prefer a bitter truth or comforting lie? the world is complicated and the big company men and women LOVE to make it even more complicating using their manipulation, power and greed. they are not even human anymore in my eyes. but oh well, hopefully we can find a way to head toward a better direction in the world cause 2020 sure does remind us how much we failed with all the disasters and what not
@@johans3164 It’s not about bitter truth or comforting lies, it’s about having to live in a capitalist society knowing that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, since it’s inherently exploitative. Some people get way too caught up with that, and either beat themselves up over it or rant at other people for doing it.
Made me thinks of games developpers, everyone is used to game being built on the soul and sanity of devs Yet we still enjoy some, when they dont break much
TH-camr's such as Ellis have me convinced that video essays are not just mindless coffee-break distractions. They are documentaries, they are cinema. I don't know if Ellis ever plans to direct, or write, or produce on an industry level, but as far as I'm concerned, she's already a filmmaker. And a damn fine one at that.
Yup, talented amateurs and semi-pros on TH-cam are now outshining most mainstream productions, in most areas. Which is a good thing, for the most part.
Video essays only follow the worthiness of being considered documentaries when they show plenty of evidence to back their information. Lindsey Ellis does this extraordinarily well to the point of getting interviews and she absolutely deserves having these videos considered true documentaries. However, there are plenty of youtubers who either don't show evidence, gloss over showing evidence, or refuse to show evidence for their arguments whose content do not come anywhere close to Lindsey's content. A lot of youtube drama is completely centered around flimsy youtube video essays, just to show.
Oh, this is just flat out a three part documentary and detailed autopsy of a movie trilogy. There's no doubt about that. I wouldn't say this is cinema, not because it lacks quality, but because what the term 'cinema' as come to represent in the second millennium. By all accounts, i consider this to be a professional production, because for all intents and purposes, it is.
As a New Zealander, from Wellington no less, this was the first cohesive story of the shit that went down that I have seen. Huge props to +Lindsay Ellis for making this wonderfully put together video. The last shot driving around Lake Taupo was a particular highlight. Thanks
I remember seeing these movies because my friend was an extra. And we had so much fun trying to figure out where everything was filmed, in the original and the Hobbit. I had no idea this was happening. This was a fascinating essay.
@@luco5769 I meet one of the stuntmen for the dwarfs can't remember what one but the nicest man i feel sorry he could not just enjoy the hey i am in a big movie that we all think and just hope is there.
I came here to say exactly this. Having watched all 3 excellent parts I am clearer on what happened - In my own country no less! As a New Zealander, LOTR is easy to be proud of; The Hobbit brings up more complicated emotions, even more so after this. Thanks.
@@MrKingkezThe problem is that the producers (and never forget that Peter Jackson is also one of the producers) would love nothing more to pocket your salary if you’re “just happy to be there, working on such a wonderful project”. Jackson and Fran Walsh are neck deep in the chicanery. Don’t give them a pass by resting all the blame on the studio. They are the face of the studio. They made a crap movie while exploiting local workers.
I started these three videos expecting it to just be about how the Hobbit movies did good/bad by the book and the LOTR movies. These videos did so much more and it was amazing. When it concluded with the point that "there is no ethical consumption under modern capitalism," I have to admit... that was an unexpected journey.
The most ethical consumption is probably just less consumption. Buy less, reuse, make stuff yourself. Still can't avoid the problem completely, just slightly lessen it. But yeah, nice comment.
@@Evija3000 that's a fairy tale way of looking at it, sure you can make your own things, but where are you going to get the materials to make those things? Through commerce. You could make your own materials too but the tools needed to do so also have to be bought, you want to till your own earth and grow crops, how are you going to make the tools needed, you could chop down a tree to make a hoe or other tools but to chop down that tree you need an Axe or a Chainsaw which you have to buy, you can try to mine metal yourself and make a crude axe but you need the many materials and resources needed to mine even the poorest metals, Capitalism rules all.
@@ciaranmcguinness8900 I'm obviously not saying we need to revert back to medieval or nomadic times. I'm saying doing these things where possible would reduce some consumption and waste.
@@ciaranmcguinness8900 your talking about basic trading between parties which isn't capitalism. Capitalism is the centralisation of wealth in a productive model. In the above example despite the hard work of the crew and actors, it was the excutives and shareholders who managed to get most of the money film. That is capitalism, those who did the work recieve little whereas those who do little recieve the value of the work.
As an update, the first of five season of Amazons lotr show (now titled Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power) was filmed in New Zealand. As of August of 2021, as post production began on that season, the teams in New Zealand were informed only 20 minutes before the press release that season 2 would be produced in the UK. Many people who were likely expecting to have a job on this show for likely over 5 years are now without one.
Given how bad Amazon's production was, if it lasts more than 3 season's I'll be very surprised no matter how much money Amazon spends to skew the optics. It's a souless cash grab where Amazon will do everything they can to make as much money as possible out of it no matter the cost to everything and everyone else involved. NZ is better off without it as I can only see it going further downhill from here and probably not end well for anyone working on it if it stayed in NZ.
I mean that show might spend millions upon millions on CGI, it’ll never get better, and if they’re producing it in the UK ppl will only complain more about the VFX. Amazon has a real stick up their ass that they haven’t learned a thing from Hobbit
Well, they’ll have to go find another job, I suppose. There’s no guarantees in life, so better get a signed agreement. I watched three episodes of Rings of Power and it was terrible. Casting was great. Afaict, there’s nothing wrong with the actors’ talents. It was the writing that really stank. Really, really stank. I will be surprised if Amazon doesn’t find a way to weasel out of its five season billion dollar commitment. And you can be sure that the folks to whom they made that commitment on paper will be amply awarded for letting Amazon slither off.
That was... surprisingly good. Watched all three parts back to back to back. I had started part one with the intention of watching a review that would shred the Hobbit trilogy to pieces for everything it got wrong, as that mirrors my opinion of the film, but ended up watching a documentary of everything that went wrong to include the marginalisation of an entire island nation. You should package this as a documentary film release, and not just a three part video on youtube.
Apparently she was nominated for a freaking Hugo for it! (The most prestigious sci-fi/fantasy award, kind of the Nerd Oscars only it includes lots of non-movie things.) I definitely think it should have a chance. Fingers crossed!
@@robinchesterfield42 Seriously? I've never even heard of that before but now it's my greatest wish she'll win one, lmao. This series was so good, I was actually really happy to be baited and switched by a youtuber for once!
I think repackaging it would only ruin the charm. Watching this months later, I already knew there were 3 parts. But the real twist was that it was ACTUALLY a documentary on the film, and not just a review.
I feel this is some of the best journalism I've seen in a very long time. In a world where people seem to have such a hard time finding truth, Lindsay cut through everything, presented us with facts. I too went in thinking I'd be entertained by a bit of schadenfreude over what went wrong with The Hobbit... and ended up learning what really happened and how deeply that cut, emotionally, into a movie I am very much on the fence about. I adore Tolkien's work, and I hate seeing how they used it.... Thank you, Lindsay.
I didn't either, but then again ... the suits in power can be pretty petty and mean when things don't go their way. Heck, getting your name on the credits list in a movie (or game for that matter) is more about company politics and less about being part of the crew that made the thing.
The gall to contact John over him sharing the news of the Kiwi actors' absence and the reason he was given. "This is bad for business"... how's that John's problem? Maybe if you treated them with more respect, they'd return it in kind.
If it's bad for business, then maybe stop doing things that are bad for business while also trying to hide that you are doing things that you consider are bad for business?
@@Altermerea nono them abusing actors and showing them how powerless they are about it is good for business. The public knowing about their abuse is what's bad for business. It's like when bullies in school threaten you if you tell the teachers you're being bullied
Also, it's blatantly not true. He made those "bad for business" comments and how much money did the studios make off the films? The films made shitloads so their argument is invalid.
Goes in ready to laugh and mock The Hobbit movies. Comes out learning a thing about capitalism and the importance of Unionisation. Well this was a was a video series I’m glad I clicked. Amazing.
You were learning about the lengths individuals will go to in order to preserve their livelihood. Regardless of the financial philosophy, corrupt people will do corrupt things for corrupt gain.
@@randomax3876 Name one period in the history of capitalism that didn't revolve around cronyism. Capitalism is cronyism. As for greed being a factor on every human system, while it is a universal factor there is still a difference between a system where greed exists and a system built upon and motivated by greed.
I was living in Wellington when the LoTR was being filmed and a lot of people I knew were working on those films. It's hard to explain what it was like, the energy, the excitement that Wellington had over that time... we all felt something magical was happening, something we'd never seen before in our little part of the world. And it didn't matter to us that the main cast were big stars from overseas, and that the money paying for them was Hollywood money... working on the LoTR was so much more than a job for many of the people I knew, it was bigger, a lot more personal. So, for many of us here in NZ these films do feel like they are our films. There is something very Kiwi about them, about how they got made, and even the way they tell the story. The Hobbit on the other hand didn't even come close to that - where as Kiwis felt very much a part of making the LoTR, the Hobbit felt more like it was being made here but in its own bubble sort of. Sure, we had the casting calls for extras, and people got work behind the scenes... but it was very much 'a job' in a way that the LoTR never was. So when the labour issues cropped up, it wasn't so much that we 'owned' the Hobbit, or that we didn't support the actors wanting better conditions... I actually think a lot of Kiwis really did understand that the performers were getting stiffed. But the thing is, so was everyone in the industry. So most of the people protesting were very aware that we were on the 'losing' side of things even before our government sold us out. Those were people who knew they could very well be losing their jobs tomorrow in a place that doesn't have enough work for them if we don't sell ourselves cheaply to overseas projects.
The quality of this documentary series could have easily justified a commercial release, incredible we get something of this level for free on TH-cam. Thank you!
Loved John Callen. I can feel the magic of the old trilogy through him and how he talked about the main cast. He seems like such a fine person. Very informative.
Dang, they really exploited the emotional tie of a nation to the film to turn Kiwis against each other, and to ultimately agree that their laborers are worth less than their foreign counterparts.
This is utterly engaging and also terrifying. The very idea of an entire nation suddenly changing labour laws to kowtow to a company. Every single labourer’s rights law has been paid for in blood. That’s why they’re so goddamn important.
And look at the shitty movies we got out of it, too. The ends don't even come close to justifying the means. We have a major company holding the economy of an entire nation hostage, and it's for these garbage movies that people have already forgotten about. Aren't movies fun!?
As a kiwi i must thank you for bringing this controversy to an international audience. The damage it did to NZ labour laws is still being felt and we still don't really understand what the reprucussions will be in the future and it's importanr that people oberseas know that.
Maybe the saddest part is that had Jackson and the big name actors sided with the NZ crew and threatened to walk if they kept treating them that way, this entire thing could have been resolved to the benefit of the workers.
You could see Peter Jackson seemingly on the edge of a nervous breakdown in that interview they did with him. He was really wedged between the studio demands and the workers. That said, he chose the wrong side and he has doubled down on it since. He was a darling of NZ for a few years but that's pretty much faded entirely now. Now we love Taika instead.
if the big name actors did it maybe, but Peter Jackson alone? Not sure there, I think Warner Brothers would've just taken the production to another country. However, if the big names actors like Sir Ian McKellen had also sided with the NZ workers, then it might've worked (can't have a Hobbit trilogy where Gandalf is played by someone other than McKellen)
In reference to Harper Lee, the fact that Atticus goes from a shining symbol of principle to a flawed human being with his own prejudices who cared about doing his job as a lawyer rather than the systemic injustice in society, to me that sounds almost like a breathtaking piece of reality.
If this series had been shown to me under the pretence that it was a Netflix documentary made by a large film crew I would never have been able to tell the difference.
As a point of note. That law doesn't just affect actors. It influenced and still influences EVERY WORKING PERSON in New Zealand. A movie that was shit caused a caustic and really negative attitude towards workers rights for people not even in the film industry.
The government served themselves instead of us yet again. As an employee in NZ you are seen as a liability rather than an asset. You're replaceable, so you work hard for the bare minimum. I am an employer now and it isn't too much to ask to treat people fairly and with respect. I think that's how you grow a healthy business and a healthy industry.
+Laura Jansen "I am an employer now and it isn't too much to ask to treat people fairly and with respect. I think that's how you grow a healthy business and a healthy industry." I think that's the *only* way to grow a healthy business and a healthy industry. It gives me hope to hear an employer say that, because so many business people seem to think that if it's not immediately profitable, it's a waste of time.
Came in expecting just a cursory review of the Hobbit movies and a side mention of the outside forces that ruined them, but instead got an incredibly well researched documentary going in depth on every facet of the production of the films. You've earned a subscriber.
Well, not the entire nation. The actors maybe, but continued interest by American film studios supports the country's tourism industry, which is why the NZ government kowtowed to WB.
The story of these movies is way more engaging that the films themselves, maybe that's the real legacy of the hobbit, a cautionary tale about hollywood
Thank you for making all this known to a larger public. I had no idea. Respect to John Callen for pissing off Warner, even if it has been involuntarily. He did something right. :)
The end of this video, where Lindsey says, exasperated, "Well, I'm back" genuinely hurts to hear in 2022. I am so, so sad that Lindsay is gone from social media, that we don't get to hear her excellent critiques and takes anymore. If, in the off chance that Lindsay sees this, this is not a call for your return, but a wish to express my gratitude for your content after all these years. I've been going through the backlog of videos I didn't see when they first came out, and it is sad to know there will be no more. I wish Lindsay success in her writing career and all future endeavors. Thank you for sharing content that influenced how I approach media and the content I consume.
Well yeah, but that's more a symptom of how "good" that government's deal making was. They run as being super duper business savvy people, but deals like the one with Warners & with Peter Thiel kinda showed them to be chumps that were easily gazumped by actual big time players.
He's an old fashioned 'academic' actor, likely educated at a classic university for the arts (given his age). They generally tend to be a cut above modern-era actors who have generally taken acting classes from a tutor, but not much else.
Those short snippets of the interview with Peter (in a weak, trembling voice) betraying his fellow Kiwis, while Philippa listens with an expression like she'd rather be anywhere else, are brutal to watch. Talk about your heroes disappointing you. That was complete Toadyism.
I always admire Lindsay (and a number of her contemporaries) shedding light on elements of media studies and film theory and its impact on collective culture, ideology, sociology, etc. But I have to say, I think this video in particular is an even more valuable contribution than Lindsay normally makes, because it is not only a theoretical analysis of the media that is its subject matter, but more importantly gives wider exposure to a serious problem in the industry that is effecting the livelihoods of real people, whose plight is all too easily overlooked by being on the 'wrong' side of the world.
Lindsay, I've been watching your videos since Nostalgia Chick first started. These past 2 weeks with all of this Channel Awesome drama happening has been putting me in pretty much the exact same state of mind. There was this time where my dream was to analyze content and be a critic on the Channel Awesome team, now reading about all of these shady dealings and unfair treatment of the people involved it makes me want to retreat into a sort of nostalgic mindset to escape it all again. It just isn't possible to do, and I think that's a good thing. It sort of depresses me, but if you hadn't left Channel Awesome forever ago then there's a possibility you'd still be "Nostalgia Chick" which was a cool gig but (as we've seen in the years to come) not a good utilization of your true talents and skillset. I'm so happy you made this video. It's probably your best so far! Thank you for all of the amazing content over the years!
spannycat waffles Channel Awesome is the company that Lindsay used to work under as "Nostalgia Chick". It was a group of reviewers on BlipTV and TH-cam. There was a document recently that exposed alot of the corruption going on in the company that i would definitely say to check out.
Me before the video: I really didn't needed this. Me after the video: glad there is a new video of this subject. It's one more that what I needed, but I am glad we have it, it was unexpected......a truly unexpected journey
I often critique documentary style for being way too one sided. Not to denigrate Lindsay's production I have to grudgingly admit that the presentation is mostly one sided. Probably reality sets in when/if Lindsay tried to contact WB corporate staff or request a statement from them. I suppose what I'm saying is there are two sides to every story and perhaps, hopefully, things aren't as bad as described here.
Didn't it get amended heavily? I looked it up and it appeared that some parts of the law were still in place, but the right to bargain collectively was reinstated (taking that away was the most egregious part of the original law in my opinion).
I just read that the law was modified and is now being hailed as something which will protect actors on the Amazon production. But that might have been Bezos’ money speaking.
a lot of festivals require the film in question to have never been published/shown anywhere else before the festival, so that might make it a bit difficult. Maybe Netflix?
I'm sitting here crying and absolutely gobsmacked that you took the time to outline what the Hobbit Law did to our country. As a NZ unionist, the history of industrial relations here is not well known and the public was manipulated against the workers. As a giant nerd, it's been hard to reconcile how LOTR still makes me feel knowing PJ's anti-union/worker practices. We're going through a bit of a time again atm with the most right wing government since the 90s but we're always loudly fighting for workers rights. Not sure if you see these comments anymore but thank you for not ignoring the damage that was done, taking such care and giving us a voice.
This is actually a brilliant feature-length documentary on the production of the hobbit that is a subtextual look into the ways we consume media and how that relates the painful ways artistic expression is commodified, exploited, and complicated by the capitalist machinations that simultaneously inhibit and enable said expression AND how said machinations affect the human psyche as we learn to grow up and inhabit a world dominated by those machinations AND you released it for free on youtube in three parts because holy shit wow you are doing the youtube thing better than 99.99999999% of all the people on this platform wow
I meant free to consume, obviously a lot of time and money went into the production of this much of which was crowdfunded, but it is available to the public to consume without a paywall (aside from the costs inherent to being on the internet which would have existed either way) but yes this is a fair point.
This turned out to be a depressing reality check, but the quality of the content that was made here is saturated with passion. I wish I had seen your work sooner, but I admire your effort and skill. This was very well made.
Me at the beginning of this trilogy: "Yas kween tear the Hobbit movies apart" Me at the end of this trilogy: "I have a bone to pick with capitalism, and a few to break"
Nathy Northy Me at the beginning of your comment: Oh look, someone who can’t take a joke! Me at the end your comment : Oh look, someone who can’t take a joke _or_ apply basic critical reasoning beyond propaganda he or she has been fed since birth!
Whether you intended it or not, Lindsay, this video really reminds me of the fallout of Channel Awesome. So many of us loved the entertainment you all provided us and the sense of community projected over the years. Now seeing how unhappy so many of you really were coupled with the shitty business practices by the higher-ups, I honestly don’t know if I can ever rewatch those old videos the same again.
adamtherock2008 my money is on that being totally intentional. I don’t want to put any words into Lindsay’s mouth, but the subtext of this whole video trilogy reads as a way for her (and us) to process the sense of betrayal felt by all the CA controversy.
It may be an effect of the videos, but I seriously doubt that she spent the time and money to fly to New Zealand and interview a bunch of people involved with a blockbuster trilogy as an allegory to Channel Awesome.
MayanExpression Agreed. From what I understand no one from the Not awesome Doc thought that controversy would balloon as big and as fast it did...guess they forgot how big of an ego Mike Michaud was.
This was an incredible video. A thoughtful discussion on the repercussions of moral conundrums in our media, and of course your ability to discuss the history of this case is phenomenal. This video is sleek, professional, and just all-around impressive. Nothing but respect for this.
In fairness ... they're weren't wrong. It's obviously he's pretty angry. And putting "budget" in quotes, as in "… Warner Brothers won’t be taking the Kiwi dwarves of the Hobbit to the London premier because of “budget” considerations …” was clearly a shot at them and pretty passive aggressive. I like the guy, but insisting that there was nothing angry “whatsoever” seems disingenuous to me.
@@ljhcmh614 I think there's a fair bit of difference between "VERY VERY ANGRY" and miffed about a multi-billion dollar studio pretending they're too strapped for cash to pay for some airline tickets. To state all that completely neutrally seems almost inhuman. Yeah, maybe a bit passive aggressive, but only in the way one rolls their eyes at something ridiculous that is out of their hands.
@@ljhcmh614 angry maybe in the bigger context but in that part it seemed to be in regards to that specific action. If he is angry, it seems to be about the whole ordeal (hobbit law, how the movie turned out, how filming went etc) but not specifically about that London event. At that point in time, it probably was expected that they wouldn't be invited and the right feeling would be dissapointment.
Can I just say, the choice to play Tik Tock over the montage was genius. At the start on a first watch we assume it's just to give the montage manic energy, but it plants Kesha in the brain for the payoff at the end. It's like the Harper Lee stuff in part 1 or the Robert Moses stuff in game of thrones part 2, but subtler and cleverer
You should just have fought a sheep for half an hour, I think that might have been a fair parallel to Five Armies. Christ, these videos are so much better than the actual films
i do love that end message of "you're selling your soul to preserve your childhood naivety" because it's something that seems to be exceptionally needed as we move forward
agreed! there's a reason "ignorance is bliss" is an unwise and harmful philosophy to subscribe to -- denial and action enable (and sometimes are in themselves) violence
Yeah, I see a lot of people in the comments missing that point and going "Wow, these films I already hate were made unethically, I am validated in my opinion, unlike with LotR, I can't wait to revisit them uncritically again" when the reason unions protested the Hobbit to begin with is they were screwed over on the original films too
Little1Cave The Streamys hasn’t announced when the audiences will be able to nominate or vote yet. I think we need to check their website or Twitter for further updates.
So huh. I never comment. I mean, never. But this is clearly your best work and it's worth noting. This has the quality of a full length documentary and it was delivered to me in a three part FREE TH-cam video? Crazy world. Thanks for this.
Second this! This some next level of youtube. It is some crazy crossbreed of video essay and full-scale journalism. Awesome, awesome, awesome work. We(I) need more of this!
Sometimes I wonder how Lindsay is real. She's so talented and good at her work and as you said, this is all free to us on TH-cam. I'm going to go look into supporting her on Patreon because she damn well deserves it after this video.
How does she do it? Years of hard work, passion, and a metric ton of student debt. I really hope this give her the fame she deserves. She's one of my favorite TH-camrs of all time.
I like the fact that Lindsay is moving from video essays on movies to full on documentaries on the cultural and economic contexts that shape film production. I'm adding these Hobbit videos to my list of all time favorite TH-cam vids.
John Key was one of our absolute worst prime ministers. Pretty much his sole focus was bringing big business into NZ and completely shafting all social welfare in the process. He also launched oil drilling into endangered dolphin waters and protected national parks. But his crowning achievement was allowing the property market to run amok with foreign speculation during a time in which the govt really needed to step in and issue regulations in order to prioritize residents and citizens. He also unsuccessfully tried to drum up patriotism by changing the New Zealand flag in an obvious attempt to distract the public from the numerous scandals that were plaguing his government. He resigned before finishing the term that the NZ public mandated for him, because he didn't want to go down in history as a guy who lost an election. He was also a total creeper, with a penchant for tugging on women's ponytails and sending them bottles of wine from his personal estate as an apology. He also supported the illegal invasion of Iraq and was opposed to gay rights and women's reproductive rights.
Ugh, the full packet! 😵 We read a lot of positive about your current prime minister though, so I hope things are better now! Please tell me, has the oil drilling in dolphin waters and protected areas been reversed? I hope so!
@@silvanloher5912 To answer your question, I believe that has been stopped! Jacinda was a godsend, she's done so well to try and rectify what Key destroyed. She has also lead NZ with empathy and kindness, yet currently Kiwi's have taken to social media during COVID to express their distain for Ardern's choices over the past few years, that had actually saved a lot of lives and put our people first. I am eternally grateful to her and I thank her with every fiber in my body for doing the right thing. Sadly she has recently announced that she resigned due to being exasperated and belittled by 24/7 hate by the NZ public, and she quoted "Nothing left in the tank to do the job". Hate is so prevalent and easily expressed now with social media. We need to be better than this. I feel incredibly saddened by her departure and I hope Kiwi's regret and reflect on their current actions towards the woman who will be celebrated and go down as one of NZ's greatest Prime Ministers in history.
@@Lolia. Thank you for your answer! Yes I read yesterday that she is stepping down, made me truly sad! She is great! I'm sorry to hear she had to endure so much hate on social media - the maddening thing is, I just KNOW it would be half as much of that if she was a man. We had a similar case with a young female politician here in Norway. I wish her peace and happiness and am sure she will be remembered in a positive way! Yes, people really have to learn to behave on social media - here in Norway, the worst trolls are often elderly people 😳 Anyway, great to hear that pipeline has bin reversed, thank you Jacinda! 💚
@@Kyosukedono That's called having a job? Ellis produces a product that people are willing to give her money to make more of it, I'm not sure what you were trying to go into with this comment
Ah, workers' rights... I remember being at WonderCon about a decade ago (when it was still in SF🌉) and I sat in on a panel of former Disney animators & artists. They showed some gorgeous art🎨 and told great stories. One of those stories was about how "Uncle Walt" hated Hated HATED😠 the rise of organized labor. I mean, he took it as a personal affront TO HIM. All the employees wanted was a living wage; Walt thought they should just be honored to have even worked on a Disney project.🤔
There was an episode of the You Must Remember this podcast that was mostly about this. They hat to bring in the Feds to negotiate between Disney and his cartoonists.
It's sad that there are people, actual people like artists not just corporate scumbags, that would agree with Walt's sentiment: that they should be glad to even work on a Disney project and never mind ethical treatment.
I love Disney (the studio) and Walt Disney (for what he built and his impact on history and the world) but if you look up some of his beliefs he really wasn't the best person in the world.
That's almost an insult considering a good portion of the 'documentaries' I see on Netflix are "Anti-christ Obama" or about how communist aliens helped hollywood fake the moon landing.
Absolutely fantastic work on these videos Lindsay! Equally both fascinating and eye-opening and the amount of work that must've gone into these with all the travelling, doing all the research, getting interviews.... it's just so damn impressive for a solo TH-cam creator! Just brilliant; can't wait to see what you do next :)
It's so telling the way Peter Jackson talks about this. He's trying his best to appear reasonable but then he refers to the actors 'bringing a frivolous action' and 'having a bit of fun' as though they were just putting their careers at risk for a laugh. He doesn't give a shit.
The tricky thing there is that Jackson can't make the studios unhappy; if he'd have made statements portraying him in a bad light, he would in all likelihood have had to... 'Excuse' himself, the way Del Toro did. A suitable replacement who would run the production in line with studio demands could've been found in a matter of hours, in all likelihood.
I personally think this is one of the saddest parts. Jackson came up as an independent filmmaker in the New Zealand industry. Then, when he got his international contracts, he didn't just pull up the ladder behind him - he smashed it to pieces.
“Warner Brothers REALLY doesn’t like this.” And that’s really all it takes , doesn’t it? What does it matter to them that people’s livelihoods are at stake? Marvelous series, such an eye opener! Congrats on the Hugo nomination!
If people like you would only agree to pay more for movie tickets, then the movie studies could afford to pay the actors more to makes these movies. So it is your fault for being cheap. BTW, the movie studios did not get rich by “impoverishing others”. The actors got paid (probably more than you do at your job) or else they would not have worked on the film. They simply got paid les than they would have liked (Which is less than actors and workers based in American make - where the cost of living is different than in NZ, obviously), because otherwise their jobs would have gone to enrich some unemployed actors and stage hands in Poland instead. And the Prime Minister of NZ would not have changed the labor laws of his country if it did not create jobs for actors and stage hands in NZ who would have been otherwise unemployed if the move had been finished elsewhere, such as impoverished Eastern Europe (which is poor, by the way, because they are still recovering from the damage done to their countries by socialism). So there is all that to think about 🤔
@@randyg22152 Lol, this is such a one-sided take. You think every single actor in the movie got payed millions or something? The strike wasn't about how much Bloom made, but about the supporting actors, the extras, everyone else involved in production. The actors that got payed more than me had no stakes in the strike, except to support other people making a living. I absolutely abhor the idea that companies can make millions of a movie, but I should have to pay more for the extras to be able to live off their work. What a disgusting thing to say. They CAN afford to pay them more, LOTS more. That isn't even up for debate. These companies make much more than they ever need to make movies, and most of it goes to the executives that make the awful decisions detailed in the last two instalments. The studios got rich, because they cheated the actors they worked with out of a living wage. The idea that they wouldn't have worked on the movie if they didn't get payed a fuckton is absurd. Only the most famous of actors get to argue for money like that, because less known actors can just get sacked and replaced. You think the studio has a lack of willing talent? And even if we assume they got paid a sizeable living, the company fucking changed the laws of a country. They removed bargaining rights, which regardless of whether you think they are being greedy or fair, is just absolutely disgusting. All professions should have the ability to defend themselves and their rights through collective bargaining. That is fundamental to making sure no workers are being mistreated or exploited. With that ability gone, even if we assume they get paid enough now, what's to stop companies from pushing wages down below whatever threshold YOU think they deserve? Your last comment about how the PM wouldn't have changed the laws unless it would have created more jobs or whatever is just absurd. You think he gained nothing out of the deal? You think there was no reason for him to do that except the common good? Bullshit. He wanted the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer, and he wanted to do it in a fashion that also gave him an optics win. By "saving" the Hobbit, he didn't move any more productions to NZ than was already going there, as was pointed out by multiple people working in the industry throughout the video. And even if it did bring more productions to NZ, it is questionable whether that benefits the people of NZ at all, or whether it just makes the companies and the executives more money, which is definitely what it does.
I think this is part of the problem I have with "fan service," because consuming things like a "fan" often means "without any context or information that would balance our unconditional love for a thing,"' and that harms more people than the fans it serves. An excellent, excellent series. Thank you for making it.
Word! It's because of people uncritically cheering on and paying for whatever has their favorite character/brand/franchise in it that we keep getting the same re-hashed stories and forgettable swill reliant on catchphrases and self reference in lieu of original quality content.
It is, but people don't really use that term in that way anymore. It's simply another way of saying you admire someone's work a lot. The general idea of fan-service is a pretty bad one though. When I am a fan of something, I dont need to be reminded of what I love in the past, as I am pretty familiar with it. What I want is the best art the creators can produce, and the best performances the actors can give.
True that the term has become tones down but at the same time we have culturally normalized being a "fan" its social and at time expected that your throw your self in a favorite bit of media. At times its expected. What you were not in line at best buy or camping amazon for three hours to get a bit of merchandise.... So has the meaning of fan soften or have we normalized being a fanatic ???
I think it's important to consider that at least as far as financial considerations are concerned, it's good to enjoy something, but it might be wrong to give money to the thing, because often it goes to people who actively hurt the artists responsible.
My god, that was brilliant. I had no idea about this whatsoever. John Callen especially was a superb interviewee. I don't like capitalism, nor big hollywood films, but knowing they actively damaged labour laws of a sovereign nation is actually shocking.
Capitalism didn't do this. Meddling with capitalism did this. Legally restricting the market is not very free-trade, and it's exactly what John Key did. The only reason he got into power was an apathetic, ignorant upper middle class voting block and immigrant businessmen that only live here half the year (enough to keep residency) and in the other half they take all the NZ money they make back to Saudi Arabia. Warner Brothers didn't damage my country's labour laws. A weak prime minister voted for by ignorant fools who thought he could protect their interests damaged my country's labour laws, which were previously very capitalist and allowed for workers to negotiate their rights.
@@piratewhoisquiet True capitalism isn't about free trade, except in the fantasies of idiots who ignore human nature and the logic of the almighty bottom line. True capitalism is about making your costs as low as possible while selling your products for as much as you can get people to pay. True capitalism is about cornering the market, forcing all of your competitors out of it and establishing your monopoly, and then gouging the f*** out of everyone who now can't go anywhere else for the product you're selling. So, yes- Capitalism did do this. And unfortunately, capitalism has bought and sold your politicians, particularly John Key in this instance (just like they do everywhere else)-- "True" Capitalism doesn't want worker's rights, or unions, or anything else that could possibly increase their labor costs. Even having labour laws... is anti-capitalist at the same time as it's pro-humanist. So are laws that ensure fair competition, a "level playing field", and that make sure that the market remains open to all comers. Best open your eyes to reality, dude-- it ain't what you think it is.
@ Actually, I have read Adam Smith. Now, are you just going to make no counter-argument whatsoever while throwing author's names around, or are you actually going to explain why companies left entirely to their own devices wouldn't strive for total market dominance, destruction of their competitors, and then use that dominance to exert maximum profit at the expense of everyone who needs their products? Are you going to explain some kind of magical decency that Adam Smith was not aware of, that leads capitalist enterprises to always be more concerned with people than with profit? Pray share some of your "education" that actually sheds light on why capitalism isn't completely exploitative if it can get away with it. I'd like to see a real answer from you-- but if you don't have one, shut the fuck up. You're not doing your cause any favors by displaying a complete lack of challenge to the substance of my posts. For my part, I'm generally in favor of what's called a "mixed-economy" system... because going purely socialist, or purely command-directed under totalitarianism (what the ignorant call "communism", failing to recognize that true communism is a fantasy that has never been tried on a large scale and that only works on a.small scale when there are other ties and motivations-- usually family or clan-- to keep people from cheating and gaming the system), doesn't work any better than pure, unadulterated capitalism does... capitalism only works without completely f***ing over most of the people when it is not pure, unregulated and unrestricted; it works when the government DOES regulate it and apply measures to enforce fair competition and to prevent any corporation from gaining a monopoly and then taking advantage of it. And yet, that very regulation is actually against a true, purely free and unrestricted capitalist system. "Pure" capitalism, will do whatever it can get away with to reduce its production costs-- which is what happened when John Key and his government proved amenable to corporate demands. That may well have been meddling with genuine free trade/market forces, but capitalism and a market economy are not in fact identical concepts-- so, the government most certainly was not "meddling with capitalism" when it was bowing to the corporate interests.
There is an old saying, "The only thing worse than capitalism is the alternative." It's a free market in which people have control over what they spend. If you don't like a studio's production principles, we simply need to stop buying tickets.
Tolkien would have been so horrified that the whimsical and courageous story he created for his children led to this, especially with the main story being about fellowship and home not about gold.
@@rudykraft5526 I was led here randomly from listening to the Hobbit songs I guess and was very pleasantly surprised when she brought in the interviews. Thought it was just going to be a snarky video essay.
This is horrible. I'm from NZ but I didn't really understand this at the time. thank you for a wonderful explanation. I really pissed now though. Also pissed at Peter Jackson for having no loyalty to his actors saying like 'actors can have a bit of fun' as if asking for workers rights is some hilarious adventure. My uncle owns, essentially, a fake rock company which sounds ridiculous but he made a lot of props for the lord of the rings and is very successful so I appreciate the concerns of non-actors but we have to stand by what our nation wants to represent. Apparently legalising the exploitation of our own citizens in favour of the international corporations they work for is kiwi culture now. I totally agree that my view on a lot of media I used to enjoy has changed now, as an adult. It's really depressing tbh, but I'd rather be someone who cares than someone who couldn't care less.
There is a lot of this and that. I think part of Warner Brothers''s reaction to the industrial action comes from the fact that American labor unions have a very checkered history. If i was a studio executive and you told me of the industrial action my first question might be 'is this what the workers want? or is it a handful of guild leaders trying to ring more money out of me for themselves?' if its the former, we can talk, if its the latter I would say; *SCREW YOU!!!*
What is "Scouring of the Shire"? (I am watching this video as a Lindsey Fan, not a LotR fan, so apologies if it is an LotR thing I am uninformed about.)
@@lauravturner It's one of the final chapters of The Return of the King, where the Hobbits come back to the Shire and discover that it was ruined by Saruman, and they have to fight to reclaim their home. Aka, the whole "hobbits are so innocent" thing is ruined.
@@lauravturner It really is. I can see why they cut it out of the film series (we already had, what, at least twenty minutes of denouement as it was? Adding another plot arc after Mt Doom would have been a bit much), but it was a really emotional bit. And as much as the Professor loathed allegory, I can't help see it as a personal part of his WW I experience. Going on this harrowing experience with thoughts of Going Home when it's over, but then it turns out that you aren't you and home isn't home.
Loved how your ending was a simple, dry “I’m back.” It pathetically and intentionally mirrors the “There and Back Again” of Bilbo’s story and how the magic in those words has been run dry and stolen in the aftermath of greedy companies and uninspired filmmaking. I still find some good in the Hobbit movies and I want to watch the “Tolkien Edit” that’s been circling around to see if that salvages any of it. The LOTR movies will always be close to my heart and have never failed (yet) to suspend my disbelief while watching them, but this was eye-opening and sobering. I can’t wait to watch more of your videos!
Agree, that ending is killer. I've watched this three times and that moment perfectly reflects the sadness of losing something special and magical from your youth that you know you'll never have again.
If you did not end up watching the Tolkien edit, I would highly recommend you do it. It flat out saved the story and the viewer gets to see Bilbo's journey as the focus. Only downside is that no re-edit can be perfect because you have a set amount of choices to pick from to make your vision come to life.
This feels like the most poignant ending to a video you've done since Rent and honestly sort of helped me come to terms with feelings I've been struggling through for years regarding nostalgia and my broadening knowledge of the world. I've found it quite difficult to realise that media which was once sacred in my childhood was actually a festering swamp of sexual abuse and worker exploitation more often than not, but somehow the way you presented this just prompted me to fully acknowledge it for the first time and accept that things can't be the way I remember them. I'll always love those movies and shows but no longer will I love them blindly.
The comments are so positive I feel like I stumbled into the Twilight Zone. This series is perfect, and I respect the hell outta you for creating this community, Lindsay.
The deal warner bros cut with NZ reads so much like colonialism and just saps the enjoyment out of these films that much more. Unlike the hobbit, im glad you made this 3rd part, thank you
lol Colonialism. The people of South America had slavery, empire, ritualistic cannibalism and human sacrifice The people of Africa had slavery, empire, ritualistic cannibalism and human sacrifice The people of the Pacific Islands had slavery, empire, ritualistic cannibalism and human sacrifice
"I don't have a problem with people making money, but I do have a problem with people making money off the poverty of other people."
Veikko Elo "I want capitalism but without the bad stuff."
voidheim
Well yeah
voidheim Yeah, why not try
voidheim It's called Social Market Economy. And everyone should fight for it.
voidheim Well, that's basically what we are trying to do where I'm from. So far it's worked out fairly well for the most part.
So, it's definitely possible:)
I feel I would have enjoyed this video more if there was a love triangle.
It would have justified the fact that it was made by a woman.
I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm kidding I'm alluding to a quip she made in part 2 about female representation in movies I'm kidding.
more jazz hands!
"Why does it hurt so much?!"
OMG LOL!!!
@My name is Irrelevant Don't ask...just tiptoe away
This video should also be called "How Lindsay Ellis tricked me into watching a whole ass documentary on the Hobbit trilogy"
@@MrLeafeater Lindsay Ellis came into my home with the promise of freshly baked lembas and then refused to leave until I had watched her entire documentary triology. I've been BAMBOOZLED.
@@caustic1611 Top ten comebacks
It was foreshadowed though so it’s ok
@@MrLeafeater It's amazing how many people will insult a guy leaving a sarcastic comment for being stupid when they just miss the joke and keep on going
@Cian McCabe this. really cringy after such a good discussion of the film to shit on capitalism for WB and NZ being stupid
The realization that while the "Scouring of the Shire" didn't happen in the films, it happened in real life.
Mokkari77 wow I never thought about it that way
WB does make a good Saruman. Puts up this facade of a the good guy in white with their products, but really is conniving conglomerate manipulating things behind the scenes to their own benefit.
...Well fuck.
shit man well put
:''^(
The way Lindsay managed to tie together Harper Lee, The Hobbit Trilogy and Ke$ha through this saga via foreshadowing and clever misdirection is the reason she will be missed on TH-cam.
wait, she's not on youtube anymore?
@@princesskenny1654 yeah she got witch hunted off the platform by angry fans of a thing she exposed for being awful. Thanks, Awful Fan Bases!
@@hurgcat holy shit 😭 that is seriously sad
@@hurgcat wait she was witch hunted for these specific videos?? I thought it was super enlightening
@@Ceaseless_Cischarge Raya & the last dragon was a rip off of Avatar the last air bender and SO disappointing of a film, I’m sad to hear that’s the movie that did it, as I truly thought it was horrible, boring and honesty cliche as hell
And noone noticed the irony that this film series revolved around a monster obsessed with the control and accumulation of a vast pile of treasure
And, cautionarily, how when their home was reclaimed, rather than equitably split some of the spoils with others who had suffered under the monster, greed consumed the soul of their leader causing his downfall, as well.
This is easily noticed, because plot holes can tell hidden (mostly quite ironic) narratives, which can be extrapolated outside of the fiction and into real-life stories of whatever their counterparts (in whole) are constructed upon. But when it's so perfect...you know there is a real good plot.
Would've been ironic no matter the studio.
I just re-read the Hobbit recently to my kids, and this message is emphasized in the book. In fact, to me the most powerful conflict in the book is between the greed of the dwarfs, elves and humans and their better natures. The danger is not the goblins or the dragon, it's that the dwarfs might become like the goblins and the dragon. And Bilbo's real value to the party is that he steers them from that. Giving away the Arkenstone to Bard over the temptation to keep it for himself is his most heroic moment, and the act that saves Thorin. That's also, of course, the tension at the core of LotR - greed vs sacrifice.
Of course, none of that made it into the movie.
The dwarves are hard-working miners, soldiers and artisans which got their labour value stolen by one big dragon, powerful, rich, and greedy. The elven aristocracy didn't want to commit to the fight, and stood back, and the men, which are largely a small bourgeois society, were also driven to poverty by the dragon. The working class dwarves attacked the beast, but only middle class men, capable of creating a ruling class, could kill the dragon. Only together, in the end, the three freed themselves from the fascist orc backlash.
Made by Labour gang
"Hey, some TH-camr is taking shots at the Hobbit trilogy. Lets watch that, thats just bound to be fun!"
90 minutes later:
"Great, now I hate the entire concept of being an adult."
It's not specifically about being an adult, it's about internalizing the shittiness of others in the stuff you like. Without the shittiness, those bad feels will go away.
Part 1/2 why is gandalf horny
Part 3/2 how unchecked capitalism corrupts art
@@Zetimenvec Since most stuff is corrupted in one way or another I just avoid paying for the most part. Thrift shops, borrowing stuff from friends, torrents. As long as I don't give money to the bad people or companies, I feel pretty good. Not that my money even matters to them.
I support judging art separately from the artist. Otherwise there's not much to watch or enjoy. And I would have to do research on everything before I even try it. However if I really enjoy something and it seems legit, I will pay, especially if it's something smaller where my money might actually have an impact, like a kickstarter.
@@Evija3000 Honestly, that's the best argument for pirating and sharing among friends: because the utterly horrible human beings profiting off of the poverty and suffering of others when they're already filthy rich don't deserve another cent from us.
@@Cerberus1441 What about talented independent filmmakers?
Me; * watching this and feeling my childhood shatter*
"Why does it hurt so much?"
Lindsay: "BECAUSE IT WAS REAL."
"I refuse to transcribe this once more"
I hate you 😭
No, it wasn't. It NEVER was. International Conglomerates have ALWAYS "exploited" people by producing where it's cheapest and selling where they earn the most. That's how capitalism works and it doesn't change by ignoring that fact.
@@LutzHerting You're like that weird uncle that always starts rambling about something completely unrelated in a discussion.
@@LutzHerting Yeah capitalism is a thing... we all get that. The problem here is in figuring out how to enjoy art in that context.
Writing in from Aotearoa/New Zealand here, I just wanted to add in another bit of this story, a bit that gets particularly heartbreaking to me. Helen Kelly, then the leader of our Council of Trade Unions, fought for the actors pretty publicly, which she was harassed for extensively by the general public.
Years later, when she was in the final stages of a battle with terminal cancer (and all the while publicly fighting for the rights of cancer patients and end of life legislation. long story short Helen Kelly was incredible), people continued to harass her over the Hobbit thing.
People sent her hate mail while she was in hospital, saying--among other things--that they hoped she'd die slowly and painfully. Because she stood up for the rights of film workers.
I grew up in a post-LOTR NZ where Peter Jackson's always been this like...near-deified national hero of the arts. He was absolutely, deliberately involved in the vilification of her and the union movement and knowing that he's involved with that makes his films pretty well unwatchable.
Jackson's main hobby at the moment, for anyone wondering, is bribing the Wellington City Council to prevent the construction of affordable and social housing to preserve the city's "Character."
jesus christ
+
Character!?
Not saying you are wrong, but sources?
@@shrimp3rjr413 Check out Rebbeca Macfie's book on Helen Kelly, it hits all the big notes in the first chapter IIRC
One of the saddest things is that you get the sense from John that they thought they could have made an incredible movie, but so much got in the way and stole that opportunity from them.
Yeah, it's sad. Both on a grander scale regarding what the movie could have been and on a personal level regarding what the actors went through. The way he talked about the beginning of shooting... they thought they'd be playing important roles in an amazing movie that focused on the hobbit and the brotherhood of dwarves. And they created an actual sense of brotherhood between the actors, they did their part, and they were excited. And then they had to wait, and wait, and film a little, and wait, and wait again, and get involved in a political mess, and get treated like trash in the end...
@@Evija3000 yeah, I got that sense of a ‘band of brothers’ feeling amongst the actors when I had the pleasure of working on the premiere and media junket on the first movie.
After seeing behind the scenes of weta and the ‘buzz’ about town, I thought it was going to be a win for everyone, but it seems to have turned out similar to my experience with studios.
Is that not obvious just by watching the Dwarf's introduction to Bilbo and the Riddles scene already?
He seems like such a nice person.
you made a beautiful 1.5 hour documentary and put it on youtube for free. You're the sh**
Martha Emma you’re the shop? You’re the ship? You’re the shut? You’re the shun????
Seriously! 😍
@@beegyoshi8797 shit
@@beegyoshi8797 shoe
John Callen might be one of the warmest, most genuine, compassionate speakers I've heard in a long time. What a lovely, intelligent man.
I want him to be my grandpa so I can give him warm, caring hugs
potential fun fact; he played Zuka, the Mandalorian technician, in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II
@@irpwellyn 😮
So did WB blackball him yet?
@@BP-vc4em sounds like with the way they were being treated even when they *were* being offered work, WB wouldn't need to do much..!
Just the fact that a fricken' film company effectively wrote a treaty with a sovereign government makes me feel physically ill. Seriously, WTF?
Yeah, pretty scary isn't it? On a similar note, did you know that the tobacco industry similarly has sued countries up to Australia (but many times small, third-world, countries that have many times less GDP than the companies responsible) for making legislature requiring blank boxes and warnings and pictures of symptoms of prolonged smoking usage (as a step up to what we see in the US, for example, where tobacco companies cannot have advertisements and have to have a safety and health warning on the box)?
Also, also, here's the wording of the relevant part of the labor laws that got changed in relation to WB's negotiations that I picked up in these comment threads:
"Here's a direct quote from the Employement Relations Act 2000
(I.e. the law that outlines employee's rights to annual leave, maternity, work hours, breaks etc in NZ)
"In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires, employee-
(a) means any person of any age employed by an employer to do any work for hire or reward under a contract of service
*excludes in relation to a film production, any of the following persons:*
(i)
*a person engaged in film production work as an actor, voice-over actor, stand-in, body double, stunt performer, extra, singer, musician, dancer, or entertainer:*
(ii)
*a person engaged in film production work in any other capacity.*"
So if you are a person engaged in film production work to any capacity, in relation to any film production work, you do not have employee rights in NZ, legally.
This is why the US needs to get back to trust-busting. Corporations as or more powerful than nations should not be a thing.
All a part of colonialism. That's how it's always been. It was effectively companies that started colonizing the new world, and companies from the US that started neo-colonizing ALL of latin-america.
This sadly isn't new, but I keep learning about new ways colonial rules of engagement seep into every bit of our culture the more we just let rampant capitalism run our lives.
It's low key depressing.
Money talks, bullshit walks
The very first corporation was created in the Netherlands in the 1600s. They'd invented the stock market one year earlier and the government had already combined all the free-market competing companies into a giant monopoly, the Dutch East India company. The govt granted it the right to wage wars because it's business was invading Indonesia.
So the very first Capitalist country in history immediately destroyed the free market and encouraged colonialism through multinationals, all with the government's help.
This is a masterpiece
Stop overdosing on Brain Force and make a video you raging SoiBoi
She really is the best
i will never forgive your skyrim video
When will we have a crossover episode between Soyboi and Misandry Critic?
"Top 10 Anime Crossovers"
Imagine being a lead actor making $Xmil on a production and having to show up to work alongside people who are currently protesting for a living wage
Would it be me, i'm sure rich by the time, so i'll join them
@Benny TheJet
Could I find a more simple minded, reductionist view of the situation?
Nope... "here's your sign"... 😏
@Benny TheJet "Unendless" greed... so you're saying that the socialists' greed DOESN'T not... have an end? So you mean that it does have an end? I don't see what the problem is there, honestly. Sound like good people.
@Benny TheJet you're spending your time commenting on youtube videos about The Hobbit movies... that is not what capitalist fat cats do in their spare time, so I can only assume you're an average guy like the rest of us. that means "evil communist" concepts such as raising the minimum wage and protesting against unfair work conditions would benefit your life far more than whatever capitalist dream you're deluded into defending.
calling the actual protestors and activists 'garbage' whilst enjoying the benefits from a history of worker protests and rights activists since the industrial revolution... no sir, you're the one who is garbage.
@@debaronAZK it was a satire comment
After the first video: wow, she makes great points! The Hobbit really was quite average and badly structured!
After the second: Omg I remember this controversy about Del Toro and the producers, I wonder what the truth really was!
After the third: Lying in bed considering every product I've ever purchased and media I consume, subscribed to Lindsay Ellis, nostalgic for Lotr, and not considering re-watching the Hobbit movies for a very long time...
i never really cared for hobbit anyway. it was mediocre af, especially being compared to LOTR and its obvious people that are working there isnt really having any fun whatsoever. it was CLEARLY controlled by the big bad company men and women. its quite sad really
@@johans3164 Yeah I think I definitely didn't realise the extent to which it was bad BECAUSE of the production... I mean I was only 10 years old when they were first released, but man it hurts realising exactly why they went to shit and thinking about the potential it could have had :(
@@clairematthews8524 it sucks for the people to learn about it. especially if they are a fan, like you. but thats the ultimate question of the world. would we prefer a bitter truth or comforting lie? the world is complicated and the big company men and women LOVE to make it even more complicating using their manipulation, power and greed. they are not even human anymore in my eyes. but oh well, hopefully we can find a way to head toward a better direction in the world cause 2020 sure does remind us how much we failed with all the disasters and what not
@@johans3164 It’s not about bitter truth or comforting lies, it’s about having to live in a capitalist society knowing that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, since it’s inherently exploitative. Some people get way too caught up with that, and either beat themselves up over it or rant at other people for doing it.
Made me thinks of games developpers, everyone is used to game being built on the soul and sanity of devs
Yet we still enjoy some, when they dont break much
TH-camr's such as Ellis have me convinced that video essays are not just mindless coffee-break distractions. They are documentaries, they are cinema. I don't know if Ellis ever plans to direct, or write, or produce on an industry level, but as far as I'm concerned, she's already a filmmaker. And a damn fine one at that.
if i recall, she has made a documentary about her experience with abortion
Yup, talented amateurs and semi-pros on TH-cam are now outshining most mainstream productions, in most areas. Which is a good thing, for the most part.
Video essays only follow the worthiness of being considered documentaries when they show plenty of evidence to back their information. Lindsey Ellis does this extraordinarily well to the point of getting interviews and she absolutely deserves having these videos considered true documentaries.
However, there are plenty of youtubers who either don't show evidence, gloss over showing evidence, or refuse to show evidence for their arguments whose content do not come anywhere close to Lindsey's content. A lot of youtube drama is completely centered around flimsy youtube video essays, just to show.
Oh, this is just flat out a three part documentary and detailed autopsy of a movie trilogy.
There's no doubt about that.
I wouldn't say this is cinema, not because it lacks quality, but because what the term 'cinema' as come to represent in the second millennium.
By all accounts, i consider this to be a professional production, because for all intents and purposes, it is.
@@eyreyereye now that sounds like an abortion documentary I wouldn't mind watching as a pro-lifer
As a New Zealander, from Wellington no less, this was the first cohesive story of the shit that went down that I have seen. Huge props to +Lindsay Ellis for making this wonderfully put together video. The last shot driving around Lake Taupo was a particular highlight. Thanks
I remember seeing these movies because my friend was an extra. And we had so much fun trying to figure out where everything was filmed, in the original and the Hobbit. I had no idea this was happening. This was a fascinating essay.
Yep this is high quality documentary.
@@luco5769 I meet one of the stuntmen for the dwarfs can't remember what one but the nicest man i feel sorry he could not just enjoy the hey i am in a big movie that we all think and just hope is there.
I came here to say exactly this. Having watched all 3 excellent parts I am clearer on what happened - In my own country no less! As a New Zealander, LOTR is easy to be proud of; The Hobbit brings up more complicated emotions, even more so after this. Thanks.
@@MrKingkezThe problem is that the producers (and never forget that Peter Jackson is also one of the producers) would love nothing more to pocket your salary if you’re “just happy to be there, working on such a wonderful project”.
Jackson and Fran Walsh are neck deep in the chicanery. Don’t give them a pass by resting all the blame on the studio. They are the face of the studio. They made a crap movie while exploiting local workers.
I started these three videos expecting it to just be about how the Hobbit movies did good/bad by the book and the LOTR movies. These videos did so much more and it was amazing. When it concluded with the point that "there is no ethical consumption under modern capitalism," I have to admit... that was an unexpected journey.
The most ethical consumption is probably just less consumption. Buy less, reuse, make stuff yourself. Still can't avoid the problem completely, just slightly lessen it. But yeah, nice comment.
@@Evija3000 that's a fairy tale way of looking at it, sure you can make your own things, but where are you going to get the materials to make those things? Through commerce. You could make your own materials too but the tools needed to do so also have to be bought, you want to till your own earth and grow crops, how are you going to make the tools needed, you could chop down a tree to make a hoe or other tools but to chop down that tree you need an Axe or a Chainsaw which you have to buy, you can try to mine metal yourself and make a crude axe but you need the many materials and resources needed to mine even the poorest metals, Capitalism rules all.
@@ciaranmcguinness8900 I'm obviously not saying we need to revert back to medieval or nomadic times. I'm saying doing these things where possible would reduce some consumption and waste.
@@ciaranmcguinness8900 your talking about basic trading between parties which isn't capitalism. Capitalism is the centralisation of wealth in a productive model. In the above example despite the hard work of the crew and actors, it was the excutives and shareholders who managed to get most of the money film. That is capitalism, those who did the work recieve little whereas those who do little recieve the value of the work.
Unexpected journey... I see what you did there, and I love it.
As an update, the first of five season of Amazons lotr show (now titled Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power) was filmed in New Zealand. As of August of 2021, as post production began on that season, the teams in New Zealand were informed only 20 minutes before the press release that season 2 would be produced in the UK. Many people who were likely expecting to have a job on this show for likely over 5 years are now without one.
If the Hobbit already hasn’t soured New Zealand’s view on the series as a whole, i imagine this doesn’t help
Given how bad Amazon's production was, if it lasts more than 3 season's I'll be very surprised no matter how much money Amazon spends to skew the optics. It's a souless cash grab where Amazon will do everything they can to make as much money as possible out of it no matter the cost to everything and everyone else involved. NZ is better off without it as I can only see it going further downhill from here and probably not end well for anyone working on it if it stayed in NZ.
I mean that show might spend millions upon millions on CGI, it’ll never get better, and if they’re producing it in the UK ppl will only complain more about the VFX. Amazon has a real stick up their ass that they haven’t learned a thing from Hobbit
Who cares
Well, they’ll have to go find another job, I suppose. There’s no guarantees in life, so better get a signed agreement.
I watched three episodes of Rings of Power and it was terrible. Casting was great. Afaict, there’s nothing wrong with the actors’ talents. It was the writing that really stank. Really, really stank. I will be surprised if Amazon doesn’t find a way to weasel out of its five season billion dollar commitment. And you can be sure that the folks to whom they made that commitment on paper will be amply awarded for letting Amazon slither off.
This is your magnum opus. Not sure what else to say. You nailed it. Thanks for doing this.
+
Dude.
+
part 3/2 MIGHT be one of the most clever things I have seen.
I know right?
It reminds me of the way Douglas Adams kept called The Hitchhikers Guide later books things like “book 4 of the trilogy" lol
It's fantastic
You need to get out more.
That was... surprisingly good. Watched all three parts back to back to back. I had started part one with the intention of watching a review that would shred the Hobbit trilogy to pieces for everything it got wrong, as that mirrors my opinion of the film, but ended up watching a documentary of everything that went wrong to include the marginalisation of an entire island nation. You should package this as a documentary film release, and not just a three part video on youtube.
Fully agree, here!
Apparently she was nominated for a freaking Hugo for it! (The most prestigious sci-fi/fantasy award, kind of the Nerd Oscars only it includes lots of non-movie things.) I definitely think it should have a chance. Fingers crossed!
@@robinchesterfield42 Seriously? I've never even heard of that before but now it's my greatest wish she'll win one, lmao. This series was so good, I was actually really happy to be baited and switched by a youtuber for once!
I think repackaging it would only ruin the charm. Watching this months later, I already knew there were 3 parts. But the real twist was that it was ACTUALLY a documentary on the film, and not just a review.
I feel this is some of the best journalism I've seen in a very long time. In a world where people seem to have such a hard time finding truth, Lindsay cut through everything, presented us with facts. I too went in thinking I'd be entertained by a bit of schadenfreude over what went wrong with The Hobbit... and ended up learning what really happened and how deeply that cut, emotionally, into a movie I am very much on the fence about. I adore Tolkien's work, and I hate seeing how they used it.... Thank you, Lindsay.
This was more interesting to watch than any of the Hobbit movies.
i tried to watch the hobbit, stopped 30 mins in and watched all 3 parts of this instead :)
Agree!
True! I hated the first, almost fell asleep in the second one and refused to watch the third.
It would be more interesting if she actually spent more time critiqing the films instead of making it political.
@@ShadowMan64572 How dare she cares about the people involved in the movie.
Wow, not invited to your own film release? I had no idea this was all happening.
I didn't either, but then again ... the suits in power can be pretty petty and mean when things don't go their way.
Heck, getting your name on the credits list in a movie (or game for that matter) is more about company politics and less about being part of the crew that made the thing.
They went to the one in Wellington but still a douche move
They went to the one in Wellington but still a douche move
And us not knowing is a product of white supremacy and capitalism in case y’all didn’t pick that up from this vid
The gall to contact John over him sharing the news of the Kiwi actors' absence and the reason he was given. "This is bad for business"... how's that John's problem? Maybe if you treated them with more respect, they'd return it in kind.
If it's bad for business, then maybe stop doing things that are bad for business while also trying to hide that you are doing things that you consider are bad for business?
@@Altermerea nono them abusing actors and showing them how powerless they are about it is good for business. The public knowing about their abuse is what's bad for business. It's like when bullies in school threaten you if you tell the teachers you're being bullied
Also, it's blatantly not true. He made those "bad for business" comments and how much money did the studios make off the films? The films made shitloads so their argument is invalid.
It’s complete insanity!!!
Goes in ready to laugh and mock The Hobbit movies. Comes out learning a thing about capitalism and the importance of Unionisation.
Well this was a was a video series I’m glad I clicked. Amazing.
... what you were learning about was corney capitalism, which sucks for sure
You were learning about the lengths individuals will go to in order to preserve their livelihood. Regardless of the financial philosophy, corrupt people will do corrupt things for corrupt gain.
@@randomax3876 Name one period in the history of capitalism that didn't revolve around cronyism. Capitalism is cronyism. As for greed being a factor on every human system, while it is a universal factor there is still a difference between a system where greed exists and a system built upon and motivated by greed.
@@Andrew-od4vg Correct, redistributionist systems are built upon greed and corruption.
@@TJ_Mc so we agree that capitalists redistributing the profits created by their workers is unethical and greedy?
I was living in Wellington when the LoTR was being filmed and a lot of people I knew were working on those films. It's hard to explain what it was like, the energy, the excitement that Wellington had over that time... we all felt something magical was happening, something we'd never seen before in our little part of the world. And it didn't matter to us that the main cast were big stars from overseas, and that the money paying for them was Hollywood money... working on the LoTR was so much more than a job for many of the people I knew, it was bigger, a lot more personal. So, for many of us here in NZ these films do feel like they are our films. There is something very Kiwi about them, about how they got made, and even the way they tell the story.
The Hobbit on the other hand didn't even come close to that - where as Kiwis felt very much a part of making the LoTR, the Hobbit felt more like it was being made here but in its own bubble sort of. Sure, we had the casting calls for extras, and people got work behind the scenes... but it was very much 'a job' in a way that the LoTR never was. So when the labour issues cropped up, it wasn't so much that we 'owned' the Hobbit, or that we didn't support the actors wanting better conditions... I actually think a lot of Kiwis really did understand that the performers were getting stiffed. But the thing is, so was everyone in the industry. So most of the people protesting were very aware that we were on the 'losing' side of things even before our government sold us out. Those were people who knew they could very well be losing their jobs tomorrow in a place that doesn't have enough work for them if we don't sell ourselves cheaply to overseas projects.
this comment deserves more likes
WHY DOES IT HURT SO MUCH???
Graham Richardson because it was real...
Graham Richardson Because it was too real
*because it was real*
...Because it was profitable.
~because it was real~
The quality of this documentary series could have easily justified a commercial release, incredible we get something of this level for free on TH-cam. Thank you!
+
Loved John Callen. I can feel the magic of the old trilogy through him and how he talked about the main cast. He seems like such a fine person. Very informative.
Dang, they really exploited the emotional tie of a nation to the film to turn Kiwis against each other, and to ultimately agree that their laborers are worth less than their foreign counterparts.
This is utterly engaging and also terrifying. The very idea of an entire nation suddenly changing labour laws to kowtow to a company. Every single labourer’s rights law has been paid for in blood. That’s why they’re so goddamn important.
And look at the shitty movies we got out of it, too. The ends don't even come close to justifying the means. We have a major company holding the economy of an entire nation hostage, and it's for these garbage movies that people have already forgotten about. Aren't movies fun!?
Happens in the US every day.
Steve Hodson
False.
Soviet Loli
False.
Ike Okereke - you liked your own comments, didn't you?
This is, without doubt, the best (supposedly) unintentional trilogy about an unintentional trilogy ever made.
well said! :D
It was an intentional trilogy, please
As a kiwi i must thank you for bringing this controversy to an international audience. The damage it did to NZ labour laws is still being felt and we still don't really understand what the reprucussions will be in the future and it's importanr that people oberseas know that.
Maybe the saddest part is that had Jackson and the big name actors sided with the NZ crew and threatened to walk if they kept treating them that way, this entire thing could have been resolved to the benefit of the workers.
You could see Peter Jackson seemingly on the edge of a nervous breakdown in that interview they did with him. He was really wedged between the studio demands and the workers. That said, he chose the wrong side and he has doubled down on it since. He was a darling of NZ for a few years but that's pretty much faded entirely now. Now we love Taika instead.
if the big name actors did it maybe, but Peter Jackson alone? Not sure there, I think Warner Brothers would've just taken the production to another country. However, if the big names actors like Sir Ian McKellen had also sided with the NZ workers, then it might've worked (can't have a Hobbit trilogy where Gandalf is played by someone other than McKellen)
@@plazasta Yes. It's a complicated situation with no easy answer.
@@arthurdurham if they're willing to go that far I'll be terrified of their greed
@@plazasta You better be terrified of their greed then
In reference to Harper Lee, the fact that Atticus goes from a shining symbol of principle to a flawed human being with his own prejudices who cared about doing his job as a lawyer rather than the systemic injustice in society, to me that sounds almost like a breathtaking piece of reality.
Something that many readers of "Go Set a Watchmen" didn't want to read. No one wants to see their heroes in a bad light.
There's a reason for the old saying, "never meet your heroes"... Nobody can be *that* good.😔
@@iansandon8057 They can, they just don't go around declaring it.
@Polymath that's true. She never wanted it published in the first place, either.
@@gillianp6842 it was all because the *lawyer* wanted some of that sweet Harper Lee cash
If this series had been shown to me under the pretence that it was a Netflix documentary made by a large film crew I would never have been able to tell the difference.
As a point of note. That law doesn't just affect actors. It influenced and still influences EVERY WORKING PERSON in New Zealand.
A movie that was shit caused a caustic and really negative attitude towards workers rights for people not even in the film industry.
Yeppp National used a seemingly popular issue, the movies, as a covert way to push through their anti-collective bargaining agenda.
The government served themselves instead of us yet again. As an employee in NZ you are seen as a liability rather than an asset. You're replaceable, so you work hard for the bare minimum.
I am an employer now and it isn't too much to ask to treat people fairly and with respect. I think that's how you grow a healthy business and a healthy industry.
+Laura Jansen "I am an employer now and it isn't too much to ask to treat people fairly and with respect. I think that's how you grow a healthy business and a healthy industry."
I think that's the *only* way to grow a healthy business and a healthy industry. It gives me hope to hear an employer say that, because so many business people seem to think that if it's not immediately profitable, it's a waste of time.
Well how are you supposed to feel secure in your job when you know even your own country won't stick up for you?
John Callen's story is so heartbreaking and disgusting... Much love and respect for him and all the Kiwi dwarves of The Hobbit
Is it heartbreaking? He's a bitter old actor who is upset no one acknowledges his bit part
@@haizee2330 you really haven't understood anything in this video then, have you? What a nasty comment.
@@haizee2330 literally shut up, he, along with the dwarves (mainly the kiwi ones) were treated HORRIBLY, and here you are insulting him? Grow up
@@princesskenny1654 and here you are hearing one side of a story
@@haizee2330your comment reeks of ignorance.
Came in expecting just a cursory review of the Hobbit movies and a side mention of the outside forces that ruined them, but instead got an incredibly well researched documentary going in depth on every facet of the production of the films.
You've earned a subscriber.
And she lead into it so gradually you didn't see it coming! 😆😆🤔🤔😭😭😭
I had ZERO idea this was going on behind the scenes °----------°
BissjeTommy same, I was completely unaware
same
That's the point I suppose
If it helps, none of us did, and that's kinda the point.
I was planning on visiting New Zealand in the future to visit the sets. Is it even worth it?
So glad that an entire nation got shafted so that we could get a mediocre trilogy that just spits on its source material.
MagnuMagnus hobbit was a light read. If any thing it was too short to be made into a trilogy.
Well, not the entire nation. The actors maybe, but continued interest by American film studios supports the country's tourism industry, which is why the NZ government kowtowed to WB.
And movies have only gotten more magical since
This part hits different after the recent news of Amazon abruptly pulling future seasons of the LotR TV show from filming in NZ to the UK.
1. Lindsay, you are a master of what you do.
2. John Callen is a goddamn national treasure.
The story of these movies is way more engaging that the films themselves, maybe that's the real legacy of the hobbit, a cautionary tale about hollywood
If more of us cared for storytelling and artistic integrity than gold, Bilbo Baggins, it would be a better world.
how greedy governments will sacrifice their own citizens for the sake of being popular and known as a cheap place to film.
Thank you for making all this known to a larger public. I had no idea.
Respect to John Callen for pissing off Warner, even if it has been involuntarily. He did something right. :)
The end of this video, where Lindsey says, exasperated, "Well, I'm back" genuinely hurts to hear in 2022. I am so, so sad that Lindsay is gone from social media, that we don't get to hear her excellent critiques and takes anymore.
If, in the off chance that Lindsay sees this, this is not a call for your return, but a wish to express my gratitude for your content after all these years. I've been going through the backlog of videos I didn't see when they first came out, and it is sad to know there will be no more.
I wish Lindsay success in her writing career and all future endeavors. Thank you for sharing content that influenced how I approach media and the content I consume.
If you've not heard already, she has started making videos again but they're exclusive to Nebula (presumably to avoid any dogpiling).
I hope you know she's back dear
"Why does it hurt so much? Because it was real."
Fitting quote for that ending. Fantastic series, Lindsay.
The fact that a studio can come in and make demands to a government is horrifying. Not surprising, but horrifying.
Well yeah, but that's more a symptom of how "good" that government's deal making was. They run as being super duper business savvy people, but deals like the one with Warners & with Peter Thiel kinda showed them to be chumps that were easily gazumped by actual big time players.
That's just gross.
John Callen is such a gentleman.
I could listen to him all day. He's so calm, intelligent and well articulated.
I know nothing about New Zealand, but he should be a national treasure.
I definitly enjoyed listening to him. Never heard of him before, but I'm glad he gave an interview. He seemed very articulated and reasonable.
He's an old fashioned 'academic' actor, likely educated at a classic university for the arts (given his age). They generally tend to be a cut above modern-era actors who have generally taken acting classes from a tutor, but not much else.
looked to me like a bitter manchild actor that thought he had a vastly more important part in the film than he actually did
Those short snippets of the interview with Peter (in a weak, trembling voice) betraying his fellow Kiwis, while Philippa listens with an expression like she'd rather be anywhere else, are brutal to watch. Talk about your heroes disappointing you. That was complete Toadyism.
He would rather cling to a massive paycheck from a project he doesn’t even like than lend any help at all to anyone
I always admire Lindsay (and a number of her contemporaries) shedding light on elements of media studies and film theory and its impact on collective culture, ideology, sociology, etc.
But I have to say, I think this video in particular is an even more valuable contribution than Lindsay normally makes, because it is not only a theoretical analysis of the media that is its subject matter, but more importantly gives wider exposure to a serious problem in the industry that is effecting the livelihoods of real people, whose plight is all too easily overlooked by being on the 'wrong' side of the world.
Jonny Worldbeater +
Lindsay, I've been watching your videos since Nostalgia Chick first started. These past 2 weeks with all of this Channel Awesome drama happening has been putting me in pretty much the exact same state of mind. There was this time where my dream was to analyze content and be a critic on the Channel Awesome team, now reading about all of these shady dealings and unfair treatment of the people involved it makes me want to retreat into a sort of nostalgic mindset to escape it all again. It just isn't possible to do, and I think that's a good thing. It sort of depresses me, but if you hadn't left Channel Awesome forever ago then there's a possibility you'd still be "Nostalgia Chick" which was a cool gig but (as we've seen in the years to come) not a good utilization of your true talents and skillset. I'm so happy you made this video. It's probably your best so far! Thank you for all of the amazing content over the years!
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What Channel Awesome drama?
What is Channel Awsome?
spannycat waffles Channel Awesome is the company that Lindsay used to work under as "Nostalgia Chick". It was a group of reviewers on BlipTV and TH-cam. There was a document recently that exposed alot of the corruption going on in the company that i would definitely say to check out.
Me before the video: I really didn't needed this.
Me after the video: glad there is a new video of this subject.
It's one more that what I needed, but I am glad we have it, it was unexpected......a truly unexpected journey
Vicente Ortega Rubilar Jesus christ, i guess you dont listen to old Blues and Jazz?
"Didn't needed this"
Ironic how the first hobbit movie was in no way remarkable or unexpected in its existence or delivery.
One could say she went there and back again
God dude i hate that you quit TH-cam. Your videos were all so amazing and I miss your content. I still come back and watch this all the time.
I started this video thinking oh wow cool Lindsay's talking about my home country.
I ended it thinking oh no... That's my home country.
What's up Eric, didn't expect to see you there.
I thought you lived in space.
I often critique documentary style for being way too one sided. Not to denigrate Lindsay's production I have to grudgingly admit that the presentation is mostly one sided. Probably reality sets in when/if Lindsay tried to contact WB corporate staff or request a statement from them.
I suppose what I'm saying is there are two sides to every story and perhaps, hopefully, things aren't as bad as described here.
Don't worry, this is probably the case almost everywhere in the world... scratch that, we should be worried.
Legitimately best comment
And as of 2019, the Hobbit Law has not been repealed, and it appears most talks to do so ended in the beginning of 2018.
Well fuck
Lindsay accomplishments should light up the discussion a bit more. Healthier work spaces makes better art
Hmm I wonder if they’ll be keeping it that way to get amazons next Tolkien production over there too
Didn't it get amended heavily? I looked it up and it appeared that some parts of the law were still in place, but the right to bargain collectively was reinstated (taking that away was the most egregious part of the original law in my opinion).
I just read that the law was modified and is now being hailed as something which will protect actors on the Amazon production. But that might have been Bezos’ money speaking.
Are you going to put the three parts together and submit it to documentary film festivals? because I feel like you definitely could
a lot of festivals require the film in question to have never been published/shown anywhere else before the festival, so that might make it a bit difficult. Maybe Netflix?
Yeah Lindsay's work here is Grade A Professional quality.
Cut to today, when she's in the running for a Hugo award for it!
I'm sitting here crying and absolutely gobsmacked that you took the time to outline what the Hobbit Law did to our country. As a NZ unionist, the history of industrial relations here is not well known and the public was manipulated against the workers. As a giant nerd, it's been hard to reconcile how LOTR still makes me feel knowing PJ's anti-union/worker practices. We're going through a bit of a time again atm with the most right wing government since the 90s but we're always loudly fighting for workers rights. Not sure if you see these comments anymore but thank you for not ignoring the damage that was done, taking such care and giving us a voice.
This is actually a brilliant feature-length documentary on the production of the hobbit that is a subtextual look into the ways we consume media and how that relates the painful ways artistic expression is commodified, exploited, and complicated by the capitalist machinations that simultaneously inhibit and enable said expression AND how said machinations affect the human psyche as we learn to grow up and inhabit a world dominated by those machinations AND you released it for free on youtube in three parts because holy shit wow you are doing the youtube thing better than 99.99999999% of all the people on this platform wow
Braeden Glickman i wouldnt say free... That ignores the contributions of those people at the end there
I meant free to consume, obviously a lot of time and money went into the production of this much of which was crowdfunded, but it is available to the public to consume without a paywall (aside from the costs inherent to being on the internet which would have existed either way) but yes this is a fair point.
90+ minutes spent learning why I disliked these films but couldn't quite put my reasons into words, no regrets.
This turned out to be a depressing reality check, but the quality of the content that was made here is saturated with passion. I wish I had seen your work sooner, but I admire your effort and skill. This was very well made.
Me at the beginning of this trilogy: "Yas kween tear the Hobbit movies apart"
Me at the end of this trilogy: "I have a bone to pick with capitalism, and a few to break"
"I have a bone to pick, and a few to break" I am going to use that so much-
@@VanillaVillain8 oh I totally ripped it off of a lyric from the band Refused
@@nathynorthy6916 you missed the part where I'm an extremely good looking loser
Nathy Northy Me at the beginning of your comment: Oh look, someone who can’t take a joke!
Me at the end your comment : Oh look, someone who can’t take a joke _or_ apply basic critical reasoning beyond propaganda he or she has been fed since birth!
@@nathynorthy6916 Shhh.
Whether you intended it or not, Lindsay, this video really reminds me of the fallout of Channel Awesome. So many of us loved the entertainment you all provided us and the sense of community projected over the years. Now seeing how unhappy so many of you really were coupled with the shitty business practices by the higher-ups, I honestly don’t know if I can ever rewatch those old videos the same again.
adamtherock2008 my money is on that being totally intentional. I don’t want to put any words into Lindsay’s mouth, but the subtext of this whole video trilogy reads as a way for her (and us) to process the sense of betrayal felt by all the CA controversy.
It may be an effect of the videos, but I seriously doubt that she spent the time and money to fly to New Zealand and interview a bunch of people involved with a blockbuster trilogy as an allegory to Channel Awesome.
I think it was more serendipitous timing instead of intentionality
MayanExpression Agreed. From what I understand no one from the Not awesome Doc thought that controversy would balloon as big and as fast it did...guess they forgot how big of an ego Mike Michaud was.
On Twitter Lindsay emphasized the script had been written months ago and any applicability to recent events is purely incidental.
This was an incredible video. A thoughtful discussion on the repercussions of moral conundrums in our media, and of course your ability to discuss the history of this case is phenomenal. This video is sleek, professional, and just all-around impressive. Nothing but respect for this.
hello
Злая зубная щетка what does a toothbrush do to become evil?
Paul McPherson I’m sorry I didn’t mean that
Damn, I did not expect to see you here, but glad to know you also have good taste :P
Wow, Quinton, I see your comments on everything I watch lol
*We understand you're REALLY, REALLY ANGRY*
Old guy: "Woah... okay..."
They were projecting; Truth hurts.
@@Sylinnilys "why does it hurt so much"
In fairness ... they're weren't wrong. It's obviously he's pretty angry. And putting "budget" in quotes, as in "… Warner Brothers won’t be taking the Kiwi dwarves of the Hobbit to the London premier because of “budget” considerations …” was clearly a shot at them and pretty passive aggressive. I like the guy, but insisting that there was nothing angry “whatsoever” seems disingenuous to me.
@@ljhcmh614 I think there's a fair bit of difference between "VERY VERY ANGRY" and miffed about a multi-billion dollar studio pretending they're too strapped for cash to pay for some airline tickets. To state all that completely neutrally seems almost inhuman. Yeah, maybe a bit passive aggressive, but only in the way one rolls their eyes at something ridiculous that is out of their hands.
@@ljhcmh614 angry maybe in the bigger context but in that part it seemed to be in regards to that specific action. If he is angry, it seems to be about the whole ordeal (hobbit law, how the movie turned out, how filming went etc) but not specifically about that London event. At that point in time, it probably was expected that they wouldn't be invited and the right feeling would be dissapointment.
Can I just say, the choice to play Tik Tock over the montage was genius. At the start on a first watch we assume it's just to give the montage manic energy, but it plants Kesha in the brain for the payoff at the end. It's like the Harper Lee stuff in part 1 or the Robert Moses stuff in game of thrones part 2, but subtler and cleverer
Fantastic. Your best work to date, and that is saying something.
That feeling when you realize one of your favorite TH-camrs is a fan of another one of your favorite TH-camrs.
Nice to see the professor has good taste.
Woah worlds are colliding here how cool.
Prof, what are you doing here?
Many Magic: The Gathering players ask the question, "Is there ethical consumption under capitalism?"
You should just have fought a sheep for half an hour, I think that might have been a fair parallel to Five Armies. Christ, these videos are so much better than the actual films
ltflak Some did. It was without fanfare or drama. Like the elves leave at one point cause some died. But that's it. Nothing else. Just... Fighting.
Given where this video was filmed, I wonder how much sheep fighting had to be edited out, just to make time.
"...thousands of people had some sort of job related to the making of The Hobbit, and it was the capitalist - er - catalyst..."
*smaug intensifies*
i do love that end message of "you're selling your soul to preserve your childhood naivety" because it's something that seems to be exceptionally needed as we move forward
agreed! there's a reason "ignorance is bliss" is an unwise and harmful philosophy to subscribe to -- denial and action enable (and sometimes are in themselves) violence
!!!!!
Yeah, I see a lot of people in the comments missing that point and going "Wow, these films I already hate were made unethically, I am validated in my opinion, unlike with LotR, I can't wait to revisit them uncritically again" when the reason unions protested the Hobbit to begin with is they were screwed over on the original films too
That was one of the best "TH-cam-Documentaries" I have seen on this platform. Thanks for creating this.
I found myself really wishing there was some kind of Oscar-type award we could nominate this series for.
Joshua Godfrey There is! The “Oscars” of online video are called the Streamys. We should get her nominated for the Video Essays.
God damned right we should!
Sania Leila Macapundag How do we go about that? What’s the process and the dates we need to keep in mind?
Little1Cave The Streamys hasn’t announced when the audiences will be able to nominate or vote yet. I think we need to check their website or Twitter for further updates.
So huh. I never comment. I mean, never. But this is clearly your best work and it's worth noting.
This has the quality of a full length documentary and it was delivered to me in a three part FREE TH-cam video? Crazy world.
Thanks for this.
I agree. I can't believe that something of this quality is available for free.
Lyndon Campbell
Yeah. Make sure to support her patreon tho so these keep comming.
Second this! This some next level of youtube. It is some crazy crossbreed of video essay and full-scale journalism. Awesome, awesome, awesome work. We(I) need more of this!
Sometimes I wonder how Lindsay is real. She's so talented and good at her work and as you said, this is all free to us on TH-cam. I'm going to go look into supporting her on Patreon because she damn well deserves it after this video.
How does she do it? Years of hard work, passion, and a metric ton of student debt. I really hope this give her the fame she deserves. She's one of my favorite TH-camrs of all time.
I like the fact that Lindsay is moving from video essays on movies to full on documentaries on the cultural and economic contexts that shape film production. I'm adding these Hobbit videos to my list of all time favorite TH-cam vids.
John Key was one of our absolute worst prime ministers. Pretty much his sole focus was bringing big business into NZ and completely shafting all social welfare in the process. He also launched oil drilling into endangered dolphin waters and protected national parks. But his crowning achievement was allowing the property market to run amok with foreign speculation during a time in which the govt really needed to step in and issue regulations in order to prioritize residents and citizens.
He also unsuccessfully tried to drum up patriotism by changing the New Zealand flag in an obvious attempt to distract the public from the numerous scandals that were plaguing his government. He resigned before finishing the term that the NZ public mandated for him, because he didn't want to go down in history as a guy who lost an election. He was also a total creeper, with a penchant for tugging on women's ponytails and sending them bottles of wine from his personal estate as an apology. He also supported the illegal invasion of Iraq and was opposed to gay rights and women's reproductive rights.
Ugh, the full packet! 😵 We read a lot of positive about your current prime minister though, so I hope things are better now! Please tell me, has the oil drilling in dolphin waters and protected areas been reversed? I hope so!
@@silvanloher5912 To answer your question, I believe that has been stopped! Jacinda was a godsend, she's done so well to try and rectify what Key destroyed. She has also lead NZ with empathy and kindness, yet currently Kiwi's have taken to social media during COVID to express their distain for Ardern's choices over the past few years, that had actually saved a lot of lives and put our people first. I am eternally grateful to her and I thank her with every fiber in my body for doing the right thing. Sadly she has recently announced that she resigned due to being exasperated and belittled by 24/7 hate by the NZ public, and she quoted "Nothing left in the tank to do the job". Hate is so prevalent and easily expressed now with social media. We need to be better than this. I feel incredibly saddened by her departure and I hope Kiwi's regret and reflect on their current actions towards the woman who will be celebrated and go down as one of NZ's greatest Prime Ministers in history.
@@Lolia. Thank you for your answer! Yes I read yesterday that she is stepping down, made me truly sad! She is great! I'm sorry to hear she had to endure so much hate on social media - the maddening thing is, I just KNOW it would be half as much of that if she was a man. We had a similar case with a young female politician here in Norway. I wish her peace and happiness and am sure she will be remembered in a positive way!
Yes, people really have to learn to behave on social media - here in Norway, the worst trolls are often elderly people 😳
Anyway, great to hear that pipeline has bin reversed, thank you Jacinda! 💚
Wow, you actually went to NZ and did some real work on this. Some of the best research I've seen from a youtuber in a long time.
Yup, that is what happens when strangers give you free money. You can go places
@@Kyosukedono That's called having a job? Ellis produces a product that people are willing to give her money to make more of it, I'm not sure what you were trying to go into with this comment
@@FrancoAguilar792 is that what Keiji Inafune did too?
@@Kyosukedono I had to google who that was, and yes he is a video game artist that gets paid for his work, what's your point here?
@@FrancoAguilar792 that she is just as bad as he is.
Ah, workers' rights...
I remember being at WonderCon about a decade ago (when it was still in SF🌉) and I sat in on a panel of former Disney animators & artists. They showed some gorgeous art🎨 and told great stories.
One of those stories was about how "Uncle Walt" hated Hated HATED😠 the rise of organized labor. I mean, he took it as a personal affront TO HIM. All the employees wanted was a living wage; Walt thought they should just be honored to have even worked on a Disney project.🤔
There was an episode of the You Must Remember this podcast that was mostly about this. They hat to bring in the Feds to negotiate between Disney and his cartoonists.
A lot of the inbetween Disney artists for many decades ended up working for Western Publishing, where they weren't given credit for their work.
It's crazy that a man who built his empire out of bankruptcy didn't want to pay people fairly.
It's sad that there are people, actual people like artists not just corporate scumbags, that would agree with Walt's sentiment: that they should be glad to even work on a Disney project and never mind ethical treatment.
I love Disney (the studio) and Walt Disney (for what he built and his impact on history and the world) but if you look up some of his beliefs he really wasn't the best person in the world.
So engaging. I had no clue about all of this behind the scenes drama, which explains a lot once you've seen the end product.
It's McGhee the desolation of smaug was the only good hobbit film
...makes me think of how my perception of channel awesome is shaped by the, Change The Channel document (and the horrible CA reply).
"Oh, a Hobbit film retrospective, this will be a fun light-hearted watch!" - Me, 2 hours ago.
This was an incredible series, thank you for making it.
Amazing Freudian slip at 17:36
I laughed my head off at that its so perfect
Indeed.
Man this is like a legit netflix documentary
That's almost an insult considering a good portion of the 'documentaries' I see on Netflix are "Anti-christ Obama" or about how communist aliens helped hollywood fake the moon landing.
cloudofthought i was unaware of this wild part of netflix. Like whot kinda
Absolutely fantastic work on these videos Lindsay! Equally both fascinating and eye-opening and the amount of work that must've gone into these with all the travelling, doing all the research, getting interviews.... it's just so damn impressive for a solo TH-cam creator! Just brilliant; can't wait to see what you do next :)
Hey suspect!
HEY! I know you!
Aye. You're pretty cool.
Sup suspect, should we be expecting a new video anytime soon?
Suspect, we need more film reviews
It's so telling the way Peter Jackson talks about this. He's trying his best to appear reasonable but then he refers to the actors 'bringing a frivolous action' and 'having a bit of fun' as though they were just putting their careers at risk for a laugh. He doesn't give a shit.
The tricky thing there is that Jackson can't make the studios unhappy; if he'd have made statements portraying him in a bad light, he would in all likelihood have had to... 'Excuse' himself, the way Del Toro did. A suitable replacement who would run the production in line with studio demands could've been found in a matter of hours, in all likelihood.
I personally think this is one of the saddest parts. Jackson came up as an independent filmmaker in the New Zealand industry. Then, when he got his international contracts, he didn't just pull up the ladder behind him - he smashed it to pieces.
“Warner Brothers REALLY doesn’t like this.”
And that’s really all it takes , doesn’t it? What does it matter to them that people’s livelihoods are at stake?
Marvelous series, such an eye opener! Congrats on the Hugo nomination!
If people like you would only agree to pay more for movie tickets, then the movie studies could afford to pay the actors more to makes these movies. So it is your fault for being cheap.
BTW, the movie studios did not get rich by “impoverishing others”. The actors got paid (probably more than you do at your job) or else they would not have worked on the film. They simply got paid les than they would have liked (Which is less than actors and workers based in American make - where the cost of living is different than in NZ, obviously), because otherwise their jobs would have gone to enrich some unemployed actors and stage hands in Poland instead. And the Prime Minister of NZ would not have changed the labor laws of his country if it did not create jobs for actors and stage hands in NZ who would have been otherwise unemployed if the move had been finished elsewhere, such as impoverished Eastern Europe (which is poor, by the way, because they are still recovering from the damage done to their countries by socialism). So there is all that to think about 🤔
@@randyg22152 Lol, this is such a one-sided take. You think every single actor in the movie got payed millions or something? The strike wasn't about how much Bloom made, but about the supporting actors, the extras, everyone else involved in production. The actors that got payed more than me had no stakes in the strike, except to support other people making a living.
I absolutely abhor the idea that companies can make millions of a movie, but I should have to pay more for the extras to be able to live off their work. What a disgusting thing to say. They CAN afford to pay them more, LOTS more. That isn't even up for debate. These companies make much more than they ever need to make movies, and most of it goes to the executives that make the awful decisions detailed in the last two instalments.
The studios got rich, because they cheated the actors they worked with out of a living wage. The idea that they wouldn't have worked on the movie if they didn't get payed a fuckton is absurd. Only the most famous of actors get to argue for money like that, because less known actors can just get sacked and replaced. You think the studio has a lack of willing talent?
And even if we assume they got paid a sizeable living, the company fucking changed the laws of a country. They removed bargaining rights, which regardless of whether you think they are being greedy or fair, is just absolutely disgusting. All professions should have the ability to defend themselves and their rights through collective bargaining. That is fundamental to making sure no workers are being mistreated or exploited. With that ability gone, even if we assume they get paid enough now, what's to stop companies from pushing wages down below whatever threshold YOU think they deserve?
Your last comment about how the PM wouldn't have changed the laws unless it would have created more jobs or whatever is just absurd. You think he gained nothing out of the deal? You think there was no reason for him to do that except the common good? Bullshit.
He wanted the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer, and he wanted to do it in a fashion that also gave him an optics win. By "saving" the Hobbit, he didn't move any more productions to NZ than was already going there, as was pointed out by multiple people working in the industry throughout the video.
And even if it did bring more productions to NZ, it is questionable whether that benefits the people of NZ at all, or whether it just makes the companies and the executives more money, which is definitely what it does.
I think this is part of the problem I have with "fan service," because consuming things like a "fan" often means "without any context or information that would balance our unconditional love for a thing,"' and that harms more people than the fans it serves. An excellent, excellent series. Thank you for making it.
Word! It's because of people uncritically cheering on and paying for whatever has their favorite character/brand/franchise in it that we keep getting the same re-hashed stories and forgettable swill reliant on catchphrases and self reference in lieu of original quality content.
Umm in case any one missed it "fan" is short for "fanatic" so ya ....
It is, but people don't really use that term in that way anymore. It's simply another way of saying you admire someone's work a lot.
The general idea of fan-service is a pretty bad one though. When I am a fan of something, I dont need to be reminded of what I love in the past, as I am pretty familiar with it. What I want is the best art the creators can produce, and the best performances the actors can give.
True that the term has become tones down but at the same time we have culturally normalized being a "fan" its social and at time expected that your throw your self in a favorite bit of media. At times its expected. What you were not in line at best buy or camping amazon for three hours to get a bit of merchandise....
So has the meaning of fan soften or have we normalized being a fanatic ???
I think it's important to consider that at least as far as financial considerations are concerned, it's good to enjoy something, but it might be wrong to give money to the thing, because often it goes to people who actively hurt the artists responsible.
My god, that was brilliant. I had no idea about this whatsoever. John Callen especially was a superb interviewee. I don't like capitalism, nor big hollywood films, but knowing they actively damaged labour laws of a sovereign nation is actually shocking.
Uses the word sovereign, dislikes capitalism.
Capitalism didn't do this. Meddling with capitalism did this. Legally restricting the market is not very free-trade, and it's exactly what John Key did. The only reason he got into power was an apathetic, ignorant upper middle class voting block and immigrant businessmen that only live here half the year (enough to keep residency) and in the other half they take all the NZ money they make back to Saudi Arabia.
Warner Brothers didn't damage my country's labour laws. A weak prime minister voted for by ignorant fools who thought he could protect their interests damaged my country's labour laws, which were previously very capitalist and allowed for workers to negotiate their rights.
@@piratewhoisquiet True capitalism isn't about free trade, except in the fantasies of idiots who ignore human nature and the logic of the almighty bottom line. True capitalism is about making your costs as low as possible while selling your products for as much as you can get people to pay. True capitalism is about cornering the market, forcing all of your competitors out of it and establishing your monopoly, and then gouging the f*** out of everyone who now can't go anywhere else for the product you're selling. So, yes- Capitalism did do this. And unfortunately, capitalism has bought and sold your politicians, particularly John Key in this instance (just like they do everywhere else)-- "True" Capitalism doesn't want worker's rights, or unions, or anything else that could possibly increase their labor costs. Even having labour laws... is anti-capitalist at the same time as it's pro-humanist. So are laws that ensure fair competition, a "level playing field", and that make sure that the market remains open to all comers. Best open your eyes to reality, dude-- it ain't what you think it is.
@ Actually, I have read Adam Smith. Now, are you just going to make no counter-argument whatsoever while throwing author's names around, or are you actually going to explain why companies left entirely to their own devices wouldn't strive for total market dominance, destruction of their competitors, and then use that dominance to exert maximum profit at the expense of everyone who needs their products? Are you going to explain some kind of magical decency that Adam Smith was not aware of, that leads capitalist enterprises to always be more concerned with people than with profit? Pray share some of your "education" that actually sheds light on why capitalism isn't completely exploitative if it can get away with it. I'd like to see a real answer from you-- but if you don't have one, shut the fuck up. You're not doing your cause any favors by displaying a complete lack of challenge to the substance of my posts. For my part, I'm generally in favor of what's called a "mixed-economy" system... because going purely socialist, or purely command-directed under totalitarianism (what the ignorant call "communism", failing to recognize that true communism is a fantasy that has never been tried on a large scale and that only works on a.small scale when there are other ties and motivations-- usually family or clan-- to keep people from cheating and gaming the system), doesn't work any better than pure, unadulterated capitalism does... capitalism only works without completely f***ing over most of the people when it is not pure, unregulated and unrestricted; it works when the government DOES regulate it and apply measures to enforce fair competition and to prevent any corporation from gaining a monopoly and then taking advantage of it. And yet, that very regulation is actually against a true, purely free and unrestricted capitalist system. "Pure" capitalism, will do whatever it can get away with to reduce its production costs-- which is what happened when John Key and his government proved amenable to corporate demands. That may well have been meddling with genuine free trade/market forces, but capitalism and a market economy are not in fact identical concepts-- so, the government most certainly was not "meddling with capitalism" when it was bowing to the corporate interests.
There is an old saying, "The only thing worse than capitalism is the alternative." It's a free market in which people have control over what they spend. If you don't like a studio's production principles, we simply need to stop buying tickets.
Tolkien would have been so horrified that the whimsical and courageous story he created for his children led to this, especially with the main story being about fellowship and home not about gold.
Congrats on the Hugo Award nomination! So deserved
The nomination led me here and I just watch all three episodes. It was well deserved. Will start learning about the Hollywood musical now.
this comment made me google the hugo awards, and now i'm shook because ao3 won it lmao
@@rudykraft5526 I was led here randomly from listening to the Hobbit songs I guess and was very pleasantly surprised when she brought in the interviews. Thought it was just going to be a snarky video essay.
This is horrible. I'm from NZ but I didn't really understand this at the time. thank you for a wonderful explanation. I really pissed now though. Also pissed at Peter Jackson for having no loyalty to his actors saying like 'actors can have a bit of fun' as if asking for workers rights is some hilarious adventure. My uncle owns, essentially, a fake rock company which sounds ridiculous but he made a lot of props for the lord of the rings and is very successful so I appreciate the concerns of non-actors but we have to stand by what our nation wants to represent. Apparently legalising the exploitation of our own citizens in favour of the international corporations they work for is kiwi culture now. I totally agree that my view on a lot of media I used to enjoy has changed now, as an adult. It's really depressing tbh, but I'd rather be someone who cares than someone who couldn't care less.
There is a lot of this and that. I think part of Warner Brothers''s reaction to the industrial action comes from the fact that American labor unions have a very checkered history.
If i was a studio executive and you told me of the industrial action my first question might be 'is this what the workers want? or is it a handful of guild leaders trying to ring more money out of me for themselves?' if its the former, we can talk, if its the latter I would say; *SCREW YOU!!!*
Watching this was like re-reading the Scouring of the Shire all over again.
Growing up is painful.
What a perfect way to sum up the video! ... because that is LITERALLY how I feel.
What is "Scouring of the Shire"?
(I am watching this video as a Lindsey Fan, not a LotR fan, so apologies if it is an LotR thing I am uninformed about.)
@@lauravturner It's one of the final chapters of The Return of the King, where the Hobbits come back to the Shire and discover that it was ruined by Saruman, and they have to fight to reclaim their home. Aka, the whole "hobbits are so innocent" thing is ruined.
@@chrisamador1216 Oh wow :/ I don't even know how to respond to that. Just sounds like such a kick-to-the-crotch after the rest of the novel.
@@lauravturner It really is. I can see why they cut it out of the film series (we already had, what, at least twenty minutes of denouement as it was? Adding another plot arc after Mt Doom would have been a bit much), but it was a really emotional bit.
And as much as the Professor loathed allegory, I can't help see it as a personal part of his WW I experience. Going on this harrowing experience with thoughts of Going Home when it's over, but then it turns out that you aren't you and home isn't home.
Loved how your ending was a simple, dry “I’m back.” It pathetically and intentionally mirrors the “There and Back Again” of Bilbo’s story and how the magic in those words has been run dry and stolen in the aftermath of greedy companies and uninspired filmmaking. I still find some good in the Hobbit movies and I want to watch the “Tolkien Edit” that’s been circling around to see if that salvages any of it. The LOTR movies will always be close to my heart and have never failed (yet) to suspend my disbelief while watching them, but this was eye-opening and sobering. I can’t wait to watch more of your videos!
Agree, that ending is killer. I've watched this three times and that moment perfectly reflects the sadness of losing something special and magical from your youth that you know you'll never have again.
If you did not end up watching the Tolkien edit, I would highly recommend you do it. It flat out saved the story and the viewer gets to see Bilbo's journey as the focus. Only downside is that no re-edit can be perfect because you have a set amount of choices to pick from to make your vision come to life.
@@15thobserver where did you watch it?
@@lzmunch So it keeps deleting my comment. If you search Tolkieneditor it should be the first result, but its a wordpress site.
@@15thobserver thanks!
This didn’t have enough endings.
Council of Geeks Hey I know you, how's the channel going?
Oscar Lenehan Quite well, thanks for asking!
It doesn't have enough endings because this is still an issue. ;)
😅😂
This feels like the most poignant ending to a video you've done since Rent and honestly sort of helped me come to terms with feelings I've been struggling through for years regarding nostalgia and my broadening knowledge of the world. I've found it quite difficult to realise that media which was once sacred in my childhood was actually a festering swamp of sexual abuse and worker exploitation more often than not, but somehow the way you presented this just prompted me to fully acknowledge it for the first time and accept that things can't be the way I remember them. I'll always love those movies and shows but no longer will I love them blindly.
Wow. On a fraction of the budget, you made something infinitely more suspenseful, engaging, and emotional than any of those movies. Bravo.
+
I'm back on my yearly rewatch of this 3 part series ❤🎉 one of My faves of Lindsay's works
The shot of you drinking tiny wine on the beach extended my life by 10 years. Thanks Lindsay.
222 likes
a comment as perfect as the video
but then again according to the description: *Nothing is Pure*
The comments are so positive I feel like I stumbled into the Twilight Zone. This series is perfect, and I respect the hell outta you for creating this community, Lindsay.
I agree. I've never seen anything like it!
Amazing accomplishment - this was a TV worthy documentary.
I was thinking that myself! It’s got the potential to be an insightful series put to air. (Love your work Lindsey!!)
The deal warner bros cut with NZ reads so much like colonialism and just saps the enjoyment out of these films that much more. Unlike the hobbit, im glad you made this 3rd part, thank you
lol Colonialism.
The people of South America had slavery, empire, ritualistic cannibalism and human sacrifice
The people of Africa had slavery, empire, ritualistic cannibalism and human sacrifice
The people of the Pacific Islands had slavery, empire, ritualistic cannibalism and human sacrifice
@@augustopinochet1670 Truth