Stendebach Model 1936: Rotary Mag Toggle Delayed Experiment
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2017
- There is very little documentation existing to explain the history of this rifle - all we really know is that per the receiver markings it is a Model 1936 Stendebach, and that it was brought back from Bavaria in 1945 by a US soldier who found it in a collection of confiscated firearms.
A number of German patents exist granted to one Friedrich Stendebach from 1913 to the mid 1920s, covering aspects of a toggle-locked rifle like this one. It is a delayed blowback system, with neither a recoiling barrel nor any sort of gas system. The rotary magazine can be fed by single rounds or 5-round stripper clips.
The aluminum elements of the gun raise some questions, and it seems most likely that the gun was incomplete when acquired in Germany. The firing mechanism does not appear to have been completed, which supports this suspicion. Even so, it is an interesting and unique combination of features. Hopefully more information will come out about Stendebach's other work and potential German military testing of his designs!
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Overengineering level : germany
It's how technology advances. Applying novel ideas and improving on it over time.
@@JMS1089 Sometimes you just need to build something to see how well it does or doesn't work. A truth that extends into the modern era.
True
it all comes together and its BEAUTIFUL
I bet the designer thought this was the simpler, more reliable system to base a semi auto on over a gas op. system. At the time he was probably right.
Now this is a true forgotten gun
Truly, truly
You had it, you almost had it... It could have been a forgotten weapon.
Forgotten? This is the first time Ive ever seen this thing.
Gun designers: I think we've finally devised the best way to design a rifle and magazine for maximum ease and efficiency!
Stendebach: Okay but consider the following...
Just Another Fanboy
😂😂😂
Just Another Fanboy looks like somebody smashed an original m1941 Johnson rifle, ( not the fully auto one, the one with the rotary magazine) and a luger p08
Stendebach: It´s all about the popular boys with their "PrOdUcTiOn EaSy" guns and them looking fancy and efficient.
ok, what if, we did the complete opposite of that
Just Another Fanboy gives it a higher capacity and you would still be able to lie prone without the mag getting in the way
Standebach: what you want fam
German military: just fuck me up
GanymedeAerospace Standebach: Say no more
Kinda want somebody to make a functional replica of this gun to see its feasibility.
It could stand to have some simplified construction for the sake of being more structurally sound, but it would be nice to see.
Man, a semi auto rifle that feeds on two Mauser Stripper Clips, that is fucking awesome.
Scribe Hammar if I had the money, I'd buy it, have a gunsmith make the trigger functional, and loan it to Inrange for a two gun AGM series.
Michael Carnes
And a mud test
Just takes money really, shouldn't be to hard for someone fairly skilled at designing guns to replicate this weapon. Id suspect it would function fairly well, possibly reliably.
U.S.A.-"Could German engineering be more complicated?"
Germany-"hold my toggle fed, rotary mag bratwurst launcher"
"Und der Octoberfest mustard dispenser!"
@@althesmith Sounds like the German equivalent of McDonald’s ice cream machine.
Meanwhile Russia comes along, "comrade we re-design German trash, now gun has no accuracy but will last 1,000 years with no cleaning while rusty and full of mud."
@@althesmith 1qqqaaaaaaaaaaaaaqaaa
Hahaha (laughts in german😜)
This thing is so Wolfenstein it's not even funny. Only the Germans would come up with something this Dieselpunk.
Dieselpunk xD I have to remember that
Initial thouht was steampunk, but not enough brass. Dieselpunk is perfect though, as this thing looks massively industrial and brutal.
@@squishy3217 Dieselpunk is totally a thing.
@@squishy3217 Dieselpunk is a pretty big thing, actually. Wolfenstein TNO and TNC are heavily dieselpunk, as is BioShock.
@@kemanorel3110 Everyone is saying how Dieselpunk they are, but how exactly? I don't think it's exactly typical for dieselpunk to include things like the laserkraftwerk, all of the robots and drones, etc
They should definitely put this in the new wolfenstien game because it just looks the right amount of outlandish and complex enough to be a good fit
This does look like a bit like that rifle from the Old Blood except for the magazine.
@@rayyanali4471 actually yeah it should be a mod or maybe this should be in a prequal
It really does have that kind of chunky, diesel-punk look you expect in a Wolf game.
I can't help but respect a guy who, in 1936, was clearly thinking, "detachable box magazines are a fad! The future is in rotary magazines!"
The only things this is missing are a magazine cut-off and volley sights. I can't imagine who would even buy it; it's practically made of man-hours and cost overruns.
But as a statement that says to the world, "I wanted to design a rifle for fun, so I designed the ever-loving, blue-eyed Pogo out of this rifle." it is top notch.
To be fair he probably designed this pre-WW1
+Forgotten Weapons There are actually quite a number of patents registered with the Imperial Patent Office by a Friedrich Stendebach (mostly under the name Carl (or Karl) Friedrich Phillip Stendebach, but the applicant's registrar is the same until the dissolution of the German Empire, so we can safely assume this to be the same person) from the late 19th century onwards, many of which deal with firearms design.
Many of these patents deal with electric locomotives, but from 1900 onwards quite a serious amount of firearms-related patents start to pop up under his name: sighting devices, projectiles for smoothbore guns, several patents regarding a "Kipplaufgewehr" (break action rifle), etc. There are no patents by this person in either 1913 or 1914, it'd be interesting where you got the information from that there were applications at that time from Stendebach.
Interestingly, the patents for the toggle lock (Kniegelenkverschluss) and rotary magazine (Walzenmagazin) were only registered in 1918 and announced in 1920 (according to the Imperial Patent Office), which was a normal time span at that time, as the patent office wasn't reopened until 1920.
depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNet/depatisnet?action=pdf&docid=DE000000329462A
depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNet/depatisnet?action=pdf&docid=DE000000330336A
(note that the documents also includes detailed sketches of the lock and magazine of the same or a similar design as the ones in the video).
Lol Mirdarion you and I had the same thoughts after we found different things on the gun and the shop it presumably came from. I also posted my TH-cam comment on Ians website, just to be safe that he reads it.
Cool!
I know I'm late, but thank you for taking the time to share this information with us.
*Skilled Hobby-gunsmithing intensifyes!
Kraut space magic : 1936 edition
Id rather have this than the kraut just cause of the 5% chance to intimidate the enemy to death
How to be german?
Take something simple and make it overly complicated so nobody really knows how it works and what it’s good for. Than die without leaving any information about it. The longer it takes to solve your mystery, the more german you are :D
top comment
Well, funny comment, but as a german, I have the right to have no sense of humour. Usually, germans document even their most atrocious crimes. This is why we know so much about our past as Nazis.
@@0ldFrittenfett top comment too
@@lutztilker550 Thank you.
Sounds like Japanese swordsmiths IMO
The trigger guard, magazine cover and Barrel bands may be cast of zinc as opposed to aluminum. Unfinished Zinc tends to hold its luster better than unfinished aluminum. At that point in time zinc would have also cost considerably less and been much easier to cast.
Agreed, but he would surely noticed the difference in weight?
Yea, I think Zinc is about two and half times heavier than Alum....
If it were zinc it would be white oxide by now.
Naw. Zinc isn't that reactive. A small test with acid would settle the question but not really possible since the gun is up for sale.
That very slightly yellowed colour and the wear on the parts looks very similiar to all the old zinc I've seen
Dieselpunk as hell
This thing is gorgeous
This is one of those crazy gun designs that I would just LOVE to see some slow motion footage of it firing.
Get one to Mae at C&Rsenal.
Me: I want a gun that is not complicated at all
Germans: *sweating intensifies*
We have 5,56 ak's
it's the wieger
You got kar98 and if you are talking about fullauto staff take MP40
Stendebach-"Hey guys, let me design a rife and I will make it as complicated as possible."
We germans think sometimes like this: "yes i know it is so comlicated it will be never comercically produced but i Design this because i can do it!"
Most of these old prototypes are the coolest looking weapons ever. They unintentionally look way better than virtually every modern firearm.
I have such a weakness for toggle locks, I really hope Ian eventually gets ahold of the Luger 1906 rifle and gets video
RebSike same here
No way man. The 1906 is a fucking unicorn.
The Pandora Guy he got a look at the jackhammer
never say never!
I'm in the same boat. I don't know why, but there is something about that action that just gives me some strange satisfaction haha
aha! my favorite weapon feature: The magazine release that looks like a safety, allowing you to quickly unload your weapon when trying to prepare to fire!
Most steampunk looking gun in existence
I was just going to say it looked like a steampunk wet dream. That thing is insane
J W Skeet looks straight outta Wolfenstein
Looks more dieselpunk than steampunk to me
A FDGFGCFG I was thinking a bit Dishonoured
I was going to say the same thing.
Way too rube-goldbergian for World War Two, it would have been at home in late nineteenth century with a Gabbet-Fairfax Mars pistol as a sidearm.
Looks like something from Wolfenstein.
Welp ,Wilcome in Germany.
I love this rifle so much. It's a work of art. I don't care that it's over-engineered. The man who made it deserves accolade.
what a mechanical beauty this rifle is... complicated but fascinating
It's deeply saddening that it isn't finished, I would love to see that gun fire.
Just imagine trying to clean this on the eastern front and you hear a bunch of Soviet conscripts screaming “URA”
thats WW2 silly.
УРА! ЗА НАШУ СОВЕТСКУЮ РОДИНУ!
Its like the designer had a bunch of favorite guns and combined them .
A rifle made by a mad locksmith!
If you wanna see clockwork I reccomend the g11, the general aesthetic and bulkiness of the action are giving me mild train or automotive engineer vibes
That makes this gun rather unique. Most German guns seem to be made by mad clock/watchmakers instead.
"brought it home" is a nice term for "he stole it from the owner"...
Reminds me of when the Germans brought the Russian amber room home
Reminds me of when the Germans went to Poland in 1939
The owner was likely now longer there. Spoils go to the victor.
@@mortemmalum7228 following your logic the stealing german did in conquered territory was ok then
@@johnsmith-yj2cn The victor decides whats right and wrong. You can't apply morals to an act (war) which is inherently amoral. So we decided what the Germans did was wrong and say what we did was okay.
This is the perfect fusion of a luger, revolver, mauser rifle, Johnson thing, and a lot of Schnapps
A German Johnson but more complicated.
So, a German Johnson
V Heller lol okay I walked into that one
There is no worse feeling than a half-finished Johnson
@@logankincade661 With a disconnected trigger.
The amount of machining on this prototype makes me think the guy was of the mad scientist persuasion.
The aluminum may have been put by someone after the original designer to finish up the prototype while wanting it to be clear that that in fact was what they were doing and wanting it to mimic the likely original design aesthetic
And here I thought the Mauser selbstladers were complicated... This has to be one of the most confusing guns you've demonstrated yet! Nice find!
Somewhere in the USVI, in a partially destroyed bungalow is me still patiently awaiting a video of an HKG11. With my supplies running out, my soul draws closer to reuniting with Gun Jesus in his holy bunker.
Isn't that a good thing? You get to meet Gun Jesus himself in the Holy Bunker of legend!
Well, opposed to your whole martyrdom story: How about you just wait until Ian gets a chance to look at a G11? I (and everybody else) have been asking him about that for over 2 (or so-ish) years and I'm sure he'll look at one when he gets an opportunity. In the meantime: Chill the fuck out!
Inesophet I heard that there should be one in the HK facility in the states. But I am not sure if that is true.
Im pretty sure there are at least 1 or 2 out there. Cant see H&K just destroying it. But just like this weapon its only worth what the next guy is willing to pay for it, can't fire it, and given some of its issues wouldn't want to even if I could get ammo. So its really just something to look at, obviously.
So with that in mind, probably wouldn't fetch quite as much as most would think.
lol
Apparently the USVI are the U.S. Virgin Islands, so if OP is indeed there, they are probably a bit fucked regardless of how patiently they're waiting for the fabled G11 video of prophesy.
"Hey guys, lets design the worst thing for someone to try to machine!"
its called a challenge
or torture
depends on the person
Imagine trying to clean this fucking thing
And that's why some parts are cast.
@@darkiee69 Yes, some.
The amount of engineering thought that went into this... my god. Just take a shot every time you see a spring loaded mechanism in this gun.
Found my new favorite gun.
Rube Goldberg "Look at this projectile propulsion device I designed." Stendebach "Hold my Lager."
That's the best comment in this video and only gets 11 likes? Come on!
How claim Woman are complicated? Germans are wayyyy more complicated!
P.S., i am a female, german, mad gunsmith and i feel pretty inspired right now😜!
Well this thing explains some questions I had for some time. For a time I wondered why the Germans never seem to have looked at a toggle locked rifle like the Pedersen, seeing as they didn't want to drill a gas port in the barrel, well until they did and then the came up with the Mkb 42 and the MP43/44/STG44. :P
Well, seems they did. Further this thing is so damn "German" that it seems to surpass even Swiss standards. :P
Really, engineering this thing is brilliant, making it is a bloody nightmare...
Then about the aluminium. Well, the Germans where using the material for some military equipment during the 1930's like the carriage of the 15cm sFH 36 howitzer. It wasn't completely unheard of to use it in Germany. Mercedes for example was defiantly working with aluminium alloys for there line of MB500 series diesel engines. Same with Maybach and some of there engines, like the HL210, installed in the early Tiger tanks.
*definitely
Yes
Just about the coolest over engineered gun I have seen in a long time, very neat!
"The carving of the inner stock is crudely cut out."... the dude wasn't a wood carver.
unfinished prototype almost made me cry - would love to see it working...
I love the mechanics involved as a spectator!
These prototype guns are just so mesmerizing in a strange way. They might not be that practical but they sure do look good!
It makes me very happy that a functional example is located in Koblenz.
The back half looks almost like the M1941 Johnson with that rotary magazine.
Joseph Satri Cleofe Villanueva
A 14 minute video of a man playing with a old European johnson
danger doggo oh my god what have you done
Joseph Satri Cleofe Villanueva oo
I literally fell asleep to the MP-18 video. I was so tired and Ian's voice is so calming to me for some reason. XD
Most interesting gun I've ever seen on this channel yet. Left only with more questions. Thanks Ian, outstanding as usual!
Love seeing experimentals with FW commentary. Also older obsolete weapons.
Did a rocket scientist make this?
Wouldn't that be a British committee designed gun? It's definitely in the need of some proper German designer to fix this mess.
Hirosjimma hell the thing is so overdesigned it needs some Slavic overview too
and some italien to provide quality food
Haha nah just some German, same thing I suppose.
Hirosjimma no, a British committee gun would not last long before having a “catastrophic” failure. Since it is still intact, it is clearly not made by a British committee.
strange gun, the gun have some krag similarity
thinking it looks like a clock merged with a gun
NORWEGIANFLAVOR it definitely reminds me of a clock or watch. Especially the windup magazine.
definitely a top up inspired gun, what ammo does it use, probably the 6.5X55 or equal?
Thank you for joining us here at Ancient Experimental Gun Autopsy.
Well... They certainly considered all sorts of systems... Even the obviously over complicated ones. So fascinating to imagine the thoughts that must have gone into the design...
Its quite sad that this was unfinished as I would love to see it in operation. Such a mechanically interesting firearm
its absolutely Fantastic how you disassemble each weapon - even such Prototypes which is unique! Fantastic!
Anybody else think this would be an insanely cool range toy? (I mean a working replica ofc)
This is so damned cool. Thank you Ian! I know I wouldve never heard of it even without this channel.
Gotta love how none of this was documented. Who knows what mysteries lay in this world.
Goliad,Texas? Man, what a place for this gun to land (Quick thing for non-Texans... Go-Lee-Ad)
Just now saw this vid, and his pronunciation made me cringe
One thing we do know about Stendebach is that he was a rather brilliant engineer.
Another great video Ian , thank you for what you do !
Is so weird I fell in love with it.
I was thinking that the magazine spool looked awfully like an unfinished rough casting. Compared to the level of finish and machining of the other parts, I would agree that the cast aluminum parts were placed there by someone else. Very interesting rifle though!
This is an absolutely fascinating rifle, with so many cool features! I love the way the stripper clip guide appears for feeding the magazine, the mechanism for that cover is really cool. I can imagine it would be a bit disconcerting to fire though, what with that whole toggle system suddenly springing up into your face - reminds me of the mars pistols in that sense. I'd love to see a working version of this!
He was one of this guys never abandonning their ideas, but keep improving it hoping that at some point it will actually start working. :D
It's a piece of machining art work. I think it amazing, to bad it was unfinished.
Looks like something from Fallout...
Bless you, Ian. This was in the very first Rock Island catalog I received (like two months ago) and I've been waiting hopefully ever sense.
That is one of the most steampunk looking firearms I've ever seen. It's beautiful.
это видео наглядно показывает, что помимо ума, нужна ещё и мудрость.
Один раз стрельнуть можно, Вы догадывайтесь в кого!
My brain hurts just looking at it
Beautifully crafted and a marvel
Man all the click and ticks and latches on that thing just SOUND so satisfying.
Holy Gun Jesus, this specimen is amazing
Well thats one hell of a name.
By far my favorite video of yours.... Such a cool rifle!
Wow, mechanically stunning and the machining omg
For a military funded contract, aluminum is an easily machined metal that can be copied by machinists. It’s a wonderful example of an unfinished and very heavily engineered rifle. That was made with a great deal of care and talent. You should slug the barrel and cast the chamber to see what it was chambered for. I think it’s great.
Its pronounced Go Lee Ad Texas
And spelled - Goliad, just like it sounds. :)
And as a connoisseur of history as Ian is, I am surprised that such an important location in Texas and American history as that slipped his pronunciation databank. :)
I thought I was the only one who heard it lol remember the Alamo! Remember goliad!
I see u are a insurgent. I can approve that.
im gonna pronounce it as Gojira
I wasn't the only one...
It's so chunky looking and over engineered... I love it 😍
WOW. Amazing find Ian.
Me: Wow that looks over complicated
(sees that it's german)
That explains it.
I would guess the use of aluminum was to meet weight requirements. If you look at the specifications drawn up by armies at the time, when everyone was still using bolt actions, there was invariably an upper weight limit. Every designer seemed to have trouble meeting it, as it was extremely hard to design a reliable semi-auto mechanism that would weigh less than the simpler bolt action mechanisms everyone was using at the time. In the end, the US just accepted that the Garand would weigh more than the Springfield it was replacing, and adopted it anyway, but the goal had been to adopt a rifle that was no heavier. The use of aluminum would make sense here as a way to trim as much extra weight as possible off the rifle so that it would meet the weight requirements specified by the German army.
Agreed. This would not have been odd on a prototype.
I wish this rifle could have seen use. What a fascinating piece!
That rifle is bad ass....alot of work went into making it. ...lov these old rare rifles
I have one of these with all cast/stamped parts as seen in the rest of the receiver there. but it has 8-round cylinder, the bayonet section is corrected. no titanium, the rear sight is gone, the rear sight now looks like an M1 Garand sight that moves with the mechanics as a single piece. And you are correct, my rifle has a Stendebach mark on its front receiver part and proof marks on the stock, the Stendebach mark on mine has an Spät-36 under it. the cylinder section as seen here is larger then mine, and the munition feed is generally the same, but mine is noticeably more canted to the right. i dont see any sort of lever system as see on this rifle compared to mine though. the barrel on mine is a little shorter and the front sight is a bit thinner and taller as well. that neck connecting the action to the shape of the barrel of the handguard isnt as deep on mine.
in general. it was suppose to be an indirect competitor to the M1 Garand, if it was to be put in use. My revision rifle of Model 1936 was most likely suppose to be what was SUPPOSE to be used in WWII Nazi german Standard service rifle. But Hitler preferred the bolt actions more. its pretty much a scaled up Luger. The war would have been different if the Germans had a rifle like this in their arsenal.
If you still own it, can you post photos?
i am trying for the life of me to find where I remember this
but I am aware of some cases of Aluminium being used (surplus to airship construction) as a quick easy method of prototyping parts before setting up the machining etc for production, and being that the parts used are not pressure bearing, it is possible this might be the reason also????
The Italian Variara SMG, that was an insurgent weapon used by the partisans, had cast aluminium grips, and the polish Błyskawica, another insurgent SMG, had cast aluminium buttstock. If an industrial production line had not been estabilished, to cast aluminium parts is easier than stamp or machine steel.
This thing is so elaborately beautiful
"If you'd like the own the--THE 1936 Stendebach" lol. Ian is an expert, a gentleman, and a damn good salesman.
Here's a speculation for ya: In the 1930's Goebbels, thrilled by all the cinematic innovations displayed in Liefenstahl's "Triumph des Willens", decided to step it up a notch by doing a steampunk propaganda movie about arian supremacy, which needed props to go with it. When he pitched the idea to Hitler, not known for his progressive taste, he dismissed it completely and bullied Goebbels back into sticking to his boring regular nazi propaganda. As such this nazi steampunk prop never made it into production phase.
REST OF THE GUNSMITHS CONTRACTING FOR MILITARY DEALS: let's make a simple box mag, usually internal and try to keep the gun light.
STENDEBACH: but what about revolving rifles? and what if we made it heavier?
Wow, what a monster! It went for $18,400 if anyone is curious. Actually seems a little low given what some prototypes go for, but I suppose the lack of documentation doesnt help.
Very nice workmanship for a prototype .
Maybe the one who added the aluminum parts chose aluminum to reduce the chance that someone will mistake them for originals?
The barrel band could also be intentionally oversized to allow for the wooden forestock to expand and contract in extreme cold weather conditions ie: Russia/Eastern Europe, just as the Mosin Nagant was designed with that in mind. Just a thought. I'm very curious about this rifle now after watching this video.
That rifle looks awesome. It would be a great display piece
Man, what an interesting design! How do we not know anything about this guy?
This thing looks like it came right out of a video game...
My new favorite gun
Very beautiful masterpiece of art.
That's a beautiful piece of machinery.......