God bless you guys this awesome information. Man, you guys are great. Don’t know how much to thank you. Let’s see I will buy one or two of your shirts. Sounds good 👌🏼
Man, I’ve needed this video for months. I love squatting, but I’ve been battling with deciding where to invest my time as far as my bar position. I really enjoy both. Thanks for the Upload guys. I hope you guys realize what a service juggernaut provides for all of us trying to get better.
Everyone should only high bar squat because it looks far more cooler and aesthetic, and everyone knows that looking looking cool is all that matters in life
This is why I like your methods. You stay open minded, allways learning, and open to integrating all aspects of training. You are truly becoming a master of your craft. Keep it up.
Great video. I like how it emphasized that they are both the same exercise. I think that this is something that people get hung up on when starting out. I myself enjoy the lower position of the bar on my back because I am able to increase the intensity and overload.
I played seven years of football and have a pinched nerve in my neck which does not allow me to do high-bar comfortably and is the reason I hated squats for many years. Thrall introduced me to low-bar squats and it has changed my life. Instead of squats being a torturous lift for me, low-bar squats are now one of my favorite lifts. I am not saying they are for everyone, but those who truly have medical discomfort in high-bars should try low-bar squatting. I love them!
Try holding the bar loose with your hands and widen the hand position as far as possible. But yeah for me lb is not worth it anymore way too much risk to fck up your elbows and shoulders
As long as you're getting to parallel you're getting most of what you're gonna get outta squatting for general strength development. I do a video on my channel about this that might help you out.
I like the top set low bar and training with high bar. I really love high bar but I know I'd probably be more competitive doing low bar so I'm gonna start implementing it more
No matter which video or article I find over the years, Juggurnaut just has such a damn good breakdown on the topic. Thanks guys for the the years worth of knowledge I’ve gained from what you put out there.
I always struggled with high-bar as I felt I lacked the ankle and lower-back mobility to reach depth on higher intensity sets. I would have to bend forward to go lower, which is much more difficult to do with high-bar. I recently switched to low-bar, and although my upper body is way more uncomfortable, my lower back and legs feel way better - and my 1RM shot up about 50lbs. As I am not a competitive lifter nor am I really concerned with putting up big numbers as much as I am concerned with overall leg strength and hypertrophy, should I just focus on perfecting high-bar and forget about low-bar? Thank you! I've been lifting for about 10 years now
The reason I like HB is because i can grip the bar as hard as i can whereas if I LB I feel like I have not much if a good grip on it a d I dont think I have the mobility/flexibility for it.
I’m sitting down here in Australia, been squatting for years but still struggling with weight North of 💯 kegs. These videos are sensational and I’m already feeling improvements. Thanks fellas.
High Bar feels so loosey-goosey hips-wise and uncontrolled (even when I am technically staying tight and rigid). I like me some Turtlesquat (slow eccentric). My legs don't seem to get as much work either in High Bar....
Never going back to high bar. Ive always stayed away from low because it was uncomfortable but one day i was just like fuck it because i had hit a plateau in squat. Ive added probably 30lbs to my squat. Definitely recommend low for most powerlifters
Triston Valadez in bodybuilding, your opinion is right! U build more quads muscles! Low bar trains your back and quads! Your back doesn’t do shit in high bar squat.
Well I feel pretty bad now! I sucked at high bar. At every rep I felt I was fighting not just the weight but the technique as well, every set was grindy hell, whether 60-100-140 kilos. Then on a whim I changed to low bar and somehow it was immediately more comfortable (although I did spend a few weeks acclimating, mostly for the shoulders). I felt like an efficient "machine", where the cogs fit neatly... maybe I am just weak :(
Disregard the entirety of the grief the low bar Squat was given in this video. These very intelligent gentlemen have successfully replaced an entire discussion on the subject of mechanics and consideration for trainees like yourself, with “its just different”. Don’t let this video discourage you, keep training productively, and get a good coach. Hell I’ll be happy to take a look at your training footage, lmk.
Fiatalember I agree with Michael. I know only a handful of people who naturally prefer lowbar squats (including myself) and they are all awkwardly built for squatting. Long legs (or rather long thighs) lead to a point of gravity further back as you lower yourself into the squat ...and if your hip mobility doesn’t allow to compensate for that with a wide stance you’ll naturally have to lean forward a bit more so as not to fall backwards. Which sucks for your back, because due to laws of leverage, the same weight will actually place a considerably higher burden on you than on someone with short legs and a more upright posture. Placing the bar somewhat lower on your back might not look like a big deal when you see it on others, but it can feel rather different on yourself, if it elevates some of that additional strain. Well, that’s at least how my trainer explained it to me and it seemed to make sense. You just gotta do the best with what you have 🙂
@@kk-ds9ix I think it depends on the sport and how you want it to translate. If you're doing oly lifting, then I think the highbar is more specific. If you're using your squat for general strength development, either will do. I do a video on my channel all about the squat, check it out, it might help you.
Depends on the lifter's build and preference. My back angle on high bar looks more like my back angle on conventional deadlift. Either way, they both help. Heavy low bar work will probably fatigue you more than high bar
In your older series "Squat school" you examine someones high bar squat, and say that what he is doing well is breaking at the knees first. But in this video, you said you should break at both the knees and the hips at the same time. Which one is it?
yandereSyndrome the cue in squat school was being done because he always went hips first, so needed to overcue towards the knees to correct. Hips and knees together is best bet, weightlifters may still tend to knees first because torso being upright is such high priority for them.
The weird thing is, they start the video by talking about how much it doesn't matter and they ste essentially the same exercise. Then proceed to give all the differences.
For a low bar squat do you think squat shoes would help? My ankle mobility isn't the best. I want to get the Nike romaleos. If anyone can give me some feedback that would be great! Thank you!
Roberto Gomez Hey man I have Romaleos. They help a lot with front squat and oly work but I didnt like them for low bar. That being said if you’re limited by ankle mobility it might be a good shoe for you. It’s a pretty aggressive heel, there are other shoes like the rebook powerlifters that have a lower heel. I have a video on my channel all about squatting, check it out and lmk if you need anything.
I have a bulged disc in my low back that makes squatting suck or at least heavy squatting. Its ok for volume and burnouts but not really for heavy anymore. The low bar position makes me ensure i truely lock my spine in a proper arch and my shoulders back allowing me to maintain proper form through each rep vs the high bar position which feels unstable and ends up tweeking that disc that hits the sciatic nerve. So although low bar may build a little less mass and the form may not be the same as high bar but it allows me to still squat even with injury. Even saying this i agree that the high bar is over all better.
Thus, do you say that for general strength training it doesn't matter which style we choose? I thought that low-bar is better for this purpose (more wight on the bar and more muscles used for the execution of the movement). I am not talking about powerlifting or weightlifting.
@@JuggernautTrainingSystems say I'm doing juggernaut method, would it be good to train highbar for the 10, 8, 5 rep waves, then do lowbar for the 3 rep wave and any 1rm testing?
In my opinion, the squat variation that allows you to get to parallel would be best for general strength development. I do a video on my channel that talks about the different squat variations. check it out, it might help you out.
@@aveno971 Honestly man, if you're going to test your 1rm, I would train the variation that you're going to test. Although the difference in muscle activation isn't too important (I do a video on my channel about this), the technique on what is different than the technique of the other so if your goal is to actually test squat strength, and not be limited by the transition of technique, I would train with the variation you plan on testing. You could vary the squat variation the further your are from your 1rm test but as you get closer you should get more specific.
Assuming proper shoulder mobility and technique, low bar squatting shouldn't be hurting the elbows right? Or is that just inevitable for some people? I'm certain my technique is off, so that's my issue and I may switch to high bar just to avoid the possibility of aggravating my elbows.
In my experience the low bar can be problematic for some people. You could alternate between the two and still get great benefits. obviously if you're going to test your 1rm, you should get more specific for the squat variation you're going to test, but in terms of general strength development they're both viable options. I do a video on my channel about it that might help you out.
@@fuadismayilzada1816 I think if you have the proper amount of dorsiflexion to get to depth barefoot, and you have a normal arch, It's probably okay to squat without shoes high bar.
Any advice for tall, long limbed people for working on high bar squats? I was under the impression that low bar was better for my biomechanics and I suddenly have a coach that will not let me use them. Is it just a matter of practicing the form until it becomes natural?
Does anyone know anything about a 'mid trap' squat? I'm neither high or low bar and find mid trap the sweet spot for me, I'm just wondering which of the two this is closest to? I break at the hips and have a torso lean so guessing more low bar for me anyway.
IMO you're splitting hairs here. If the bar is comfortable and is sitting mid trap, and you're capable of getting to parallel, you're good to go. I do a video on my channel that analysis bar placement on the squat, take a look and it might answer a lot of your questions.
Chad, you've trained many football players, what do you do with athletes who have a hard time reaching depth in the high bar squat? I've never been able to perform a proper high bar squat (with full depth and a reasonably close stance) without Olympic Lifting shoes. The same goes for both of my younger brothers. Since neither of them own shoes with a heel, I advised them to switch to low bar. They have and their form has improved dramatically.
(Im not Chad) First of all, for football players, Id say hbbs and lbbs doesnt make much difference in the first place. Or rather, it depends on the needs and situation of the athlete which may of them may give you a slight advantage. For example, DL or OL: often lbbs-like stances in tackles, WR or RB - more upright posture with more knee flexion when cutting. Or in season vs off season: In season your lower back has enough to cope with, so tending to hbbs. Then: What do you mean with reaching depth in hbbs? Im asiking because some think that hbbs automatically means ATG (for whatever reason). You can still choose whatever depth you think is appropriate. If you squat a little above thighs parallel youd still have equal or more knee flexion than in a lbbs. But Id recommend either just continuing with lbbs or simply achieving more ankle mobility which you can profit from in general (youtube "ankle stretch").
Thanks for the response. I personally perform both high bar and low bar squats. I just can't comfortably reach parallel in a high bar squat without heels. I bought a pair of adipowers about a year ago, so now I utilize both styles of squat in my training, during the offseason especially. In season, I actually do most of my squats low bar, unless my low back is feeling really beat up (as you mentioned). My reasoning for this is that I would prefer my hips to be more sore during season rather than my quads (if I did high bar). My brothers and I are all Defensive linemen btw.
If specificity is key, why does the front squat not satisfy the weightlifter's requirements? What does the high bar squat supply that the front squat lacks, and does it supply that thing better than low bar? This seems the key point in the low bar for weightlifters discussion, and it doesn't seem to get addressed.
Assuming still that specificity is the main factor, would you agree the ideal option would be to front squat as much as possible, and high bar squat as little as is required to ensure recovery, to stay as specific as possible?
Exactly - and from that to the reverse: hbbs as much as possible and fs as little as is required. Depending on the context: level of lifter, weaknesses, training season and so on. Even in elite level weightlifters, who are on the highly specific end of the spectrum, hbbs play an important role to generate manageable squatting volume. You can watch pre-competition training sessions of WC and the Olympics with hbbs. Pretty heavy, close to the competition, whereas powerlifters do a much more distinct tapering. Case in point /watch?v=MI0L7E_5Qac
Lizard, Yes. if you front squat, not only will your knees hurt forever, but when you die (probably from not being able to breathe while front squatting), you will be reincarnated as a millipede so you can enjoy 200 times the knee pain forever more.
Low Bar brings hamstrings in to play more, but takes out a lot of quad & abs. The combo of the anterior chain dominant high Bar squat and a posterior Chain lift like a stiff leg deadlift is how you achieve the best leg development.
Should've probably stressed back positioning with respect to hand placement more. It comes naturally to us that have done many thousands of reps but untalented newbies botch it.
A few clarifications I would like to ask for. At 0.57, it is suggested that defining a low and high bar rack is pointless. In fact, there arguably exists definitions for low and high bar. The bar is placed on the lowest point it can be carried, in such a way that the elbows and wrists are not carrying the load. This is just under the spine of the scapula. The high bar is on top of the traps. Most of the time, anything in between is uncoached, or singularly justified by idiosyncrasies. At 1.59, it is asserted that the low bar squat necessitates forward lean to stop the bar rolling off the back. This is incorrect- the increased torso angle is derived from the relation of the midfoot to the placement of the bar on the back. With a correct grip, the bar shouldn't be rolling around. At 2.15 it is suggested that there exists further consideration for determining trunk angle- the athlete's individual strengths in either the back of legs. This appears to be an arbitrary binary categorisation. You state that it behooves someone with a strong back to lean over even more to use this back. Are you possibly conflating back strength with hip extension? Is this a chicken/egg scenario- the longer legged lifter must lean over in respects to mechanical efficiency and therefore develops what take the appearance of dominant hip extension? Is there due consideration to what this might do to the placement of the bar in respects to the midfoot balance point? At 4.27, the lifter is instructed to drive the bar with his back. Is not the back held isometrically rigid? Is not the back the transmission to the 'motor' of the hip and knee extension - in both high and low bar squats? Again, are you conflating using the back with hip extension? At 4.37, it is stated that the moment arm is shorter between the bar and the hips. This is incorrect; the moment arm is shorter in a high bar squat. The longer moment arm facilitates the added use of the hamstrings to contribute to a bigger lift. Not the nebulous "back."
Sure, I completely agree with you, to conflate back extension with hip extension when either can be a limiting factor, and require different solutions, is needlessly confusing.
I cant speak for the two guys or for Juggernaut, but imo youre right about the conflated language "back, hip extension". And also the "rolling bar" comment struck me as very peripheral to your far more substantial reason of bar mechanics. The video is more about practical experiences in coaching both squat variants than a scientific explanation. Although "driving your back into the bar" very probably is just a cue for getting the hips back under the bar, after the torques having been shifted a bit to more hip extension to reduce quad load (a natural occurence in hard squats). For your question about 4.37: Its a bit different than that. Disclaimer: I suspect by your expressions that youre an ardent follower of SS. Well, you will probably not like what im going to post and might not even accept facts contradicting the non-scientific bubble the SS community is ...sooo nevertheless, have fun reading (and maybe changing your mind :) ): www.strongerbyscience [dot] com/high-bar-and-low-bar-squatting-2-0/
is there any hard data on the high bar being better than low bar for weightlifting (i.e. more than just anecdote and appeal to authority)? It seems like it'll be a huge black swan if it ever turns out to be wrong. I can't find the mythical "soviet studies" that supposedly exist.
How would you propose that idea could be proved 'wrong' or 'right' for that matter by a study? One significant data point that some may consider anecdote (but what is observation besides looking at lots of anecdotes) is that 99.99% of international weightlifting champions have used a high bar position instead of a low bar position. The onus would be on someone who really holds the belief that low bar is superior to produce multiple high level lifters with that. Its far fetched to think that someone who is successfully coaching lifters using high bar squats is going to switch their athletes to low bar squats to disprove a group of people that they already know to be wrong.
@JTS I agree that the burden of proof should in those who are neutral or favor lbbs. I also agree that experimental design would be complicated in both willingness to comply and complexity in comparison. I didn't mean to sound argumentative, by the way, I am legit looking for hard data.
I completely agree with you that well run longitudinal weightlifting studies answer the question ideally. In the unfortunate absence of that, you could make predictions on the evidence we have in squat studies: hbbs trains the quads through a longer range of motion, offering a bit more hypertrophy and angle-specific strength (weightlifters need strength in very acute knee angles), whereas lbbs trains the hamstrings a bit more. So, it isnt a huge difference, but considering that added to the the practical points that weightlifters already have a lot of pulling exercises to do which already stress the low back (and hamstrings), the hbbs is a bit more suitable for a weightlifting program. Id suspect the different outcomes to be much smaller than many people would think, though, because you certainly could program differently when using the lbbs: for example, a bit less non-specific pulling and more front squats to make up for less quad strength/hypertrophy.
I'm no expert: if you're a powerlifter AND you have longer legs THEN low bar is preferable. However if you have shorter femurs, quad dominant, AND you're in Oly lifting or crossfit, then high bar is probably preferable. Both are useful. This is a great explanation by Chad and Matt btw.
Low bar is preferable for almost everyone with the mobility to tolerate it. If you have excessively long femurs you may find you already have a moderate level of forward lean even in a high bar position. With long femurs and the bar further down your back this increases the forward lean to maintain balance. some people low bar squat and their torso practically faces the floor. other people with super short femurs can low bar squat and be super upright. As far as direct leverage and moment arms are concerned assuming the lifter is muscularly balanced then low bar should theoretically always come out with superiority. I'm also no expert, but i do consider myself a student of the game.
Zlatan those symptoms often point to overarching your low back. Doing this leads to excessive lumbar flexion and a weak abdominal brace. Which will give you back pain.
As a long leg lifter I have to disagree. Low bar always left pounds out on the table for me. Placing the bar on the rear delts forces me to severely lean forward from the start. However loading directly inline with the axial skeleton on a highbar and abducting my feet with a slightly wider gives me the prefect set up for power.
I myself have very long femurs. Squatting with a more medium stance can be troublesome for someone with long femurs and low bar because of the forward lean required. there's a simple fix for this. Sumo stance squats. Going from a medium stance squat to a sumo stance squat optimised all of my leverages. it allows my hips to be more under the bar, reducing the moment arm between the hips and the bar. also reduces the ROM of the lift. stronger out of the hole because of a 90 degree knee angle at depth opposed to like 70 degrees. and this change literally added 30kg to my 10RM within a week. If i were you i'd consider the option.
Isn't the key point here that high bar squatting is the best way to build strength and low bar squatting is the best way to attain your ABSOLUTE strength
When two of the best squatters ever do a video about squatting. It's always worth to pass by ! Thanks a lot Chad and Max !
Chax
Didn't see Jonnie Candito
Where Malanichev at?
Alphadestiny is my fav skwatter
Lowbar Squat with Hip Drahve for a set of Fahve!
Nipples to the floor
Juggernaut Training Systems Push your ass up!
Fake Natty bro did just watch Allen video. Good stuff brother. Let’s strive for strength. God bless
God bless you guys this awesome information. Man, you guys are great. Don’t know how much to thank you. Let’s see I will buy one or two of your shirts. Sounds good 👌🏼
Fake Natty I'm pretty impressed you had a reference for that.
Man, I’ve needed this video for months. I love squatting, but I’ve been battling with deciding where to invest my time as far as my bar position. I really enjoy both. Thanks for the Upload guys. I hope you guys realize what a service juggernaut provides for all of us trying to get better.
Thanks. Glad its helping
Everyone should only high bar squat because it looks far more cooler and aesthetic, and everyone knows that looking looking cool is all that matters in life
I have to agree that highbar definitely looks way cooler haha...but then again, I lift more weight low bar...so maybe THAT looks cooler lol
Weightlifting elitists' arguments in a nutshell.
Ok Clarence
X-Zap it's a shit rocket.
whats NOT cool about it?
Lol :D
This is why I like your methods. You stay open minded, allways learning, and open to integrating all aspects of training. You are truly becoming a master of your craft. Keep it up.
Great video. I like how it emphasized that they are both the same exercise. I think that this is something that people get hung up on when starting out. I myself enjoy the lower position of the bar on my back because I am able to increase the intensity and overload.
I played seven years of football and have a pinched nerve in my neck which does not allow me to do high-bar comfortably and is the reason I hated squats for many years. Thrall introduced me to low-bar squats and it has changed my life. Instead of squats being a torturous lift for me, low-bar squats are now one of my favorite lifts. I am not saying they are for everyone, but those who truly have medical discomfort in high-bars should try low-bar squatting. I love them!
Low-bar + Front squat my ideal combo.
Front squats are evil man. Absolute nightmare.
Low bar + goblet squats for me lol
Me too sometimes in the same day
Same here
I can't stop staring into your eyes. It's distracting. Can you hide them please.
Anthony Brady they’re beautiful
Squat sedusa
this bench press video was very helpful
Never got the low-bar squat to work. Never did it for more than a couple weeks without my elbows shouting at me to quit.
I did it for 4 months before I got the hang of it.
You need to get used to supporting the bar with the rear delts and not letting it shove down into your elbows. It does have a steep learning curve
Try holding the bar loose with your hands and widen the hand position as far as possible. But yeah for me lb is not worth it anymore way too much risk to fck up your elbows and shoulders
And the wrists ofcourse
Thumbless grip does wonders i find. I still can't grip the bar with a thumb grip. My elbows,wrists,and fingers gets numb before even completing 1 rep
I would say that low bar is also beneficial if you're having knee pain from the increased ROM in the high bar position. That's my situation.
As long as you're getting to parallel you're getting most of what you're gonna get outta squatting for general strength development. I do a video on my channel about this that might help you out.
Great video! Can you guys make a video like this comparing sumo vs conventional too?
Ridiculously good video! Everything I was looking for and more.
Glorious High Bar Olympic Squat ATG !!
世紀末救世主 High Bar olympic squat is repetitive
Great Stuff Again! You guys provide so much free quality content!
Thanks for watching
This channel is just gold
Thank you
Both Ed Coan and Fred Hatfield squatted exclusively high bar in the off season switching to low bar during the pre meet phase
I like the top set low bar and training with high bar. I really love high bar but I know I'd probably be more competitive doing low bar so I'm gonna start implementing it more
Excellent info guys you never disappoint.
His voice is so soothing I just keep on watching it again and again
No matter which video or article I find over the years, Juggurnaut just has such a damn good breakdown on the topic.
Thanks guys for the the years worth of knowledge I’ve gained from what you put out there.
You're welcome. Thanks for the support
Really great points! Those eyes are as mesmerizing as the information presented! Good stuff.
the focus on full-foot pressure is so important
I always struggled with high-bar as I felt I lacked the ankle and lower-back mobility to reach depth on higher intensity sets. I would have to bend forward to go lower, which is much more difficult to do with high-bar. I recently switched to low-bar, and although my upper body is way more uncomfortable, my lower back and legs feel way better - and my 1RM shot up about 50lbs. As I am not a competitive lifter nor am I really concerned with putting up big numbers as much as I am concerned with overall leg strength and hypertrophy, should I just focus on perfecting high-bar and forget about low-bar?
Thank you!
I've been lifting for about 10 years now
heeled shoes?
@@IamLEGENDkb24 Those were a huge help. Started using squat shoes about 5 years ago.
Thank you for these videos! Very helpful and informative.
I had to start squatting high bar because it's easier on my back.
Oscar Oropeza You might just be leaning too far forward in your low bar. Essentially goodmorninging it. Either way though highbar rocks so yeah lol
Nicely done, keep it up
Thanks
The pagination of that text over the shoulder was great. Also the slap on the bum
The reason I like HB is because i can grip the bar as hard as i can whereas if I LB I feel like I have not much if a good grip on it a d I dont think I have the mobility/flexibility for it.
I'm glad I watch this video because I was getting so much pain on my arms I couldn't bench the next day
wow fellas.... great video, very informative. Will help competitors of varying levels...... well done.
I’m sitting down here in Australia, been squatting for years but still struggling with weight North of 💯 kegs. These videos are sensational and I’m already feeling improvements. Thanks fellas.
Thank you Chad and Max
High bar atg Olympic squats are aesthetic as fuck so that's what I do
High Bar feels so loosey-goosey hips-wise and uncontrolled (even when I am technically staying tight and rigid). I like me some Turtlesquat (slow eccentric). My legs don't seem to get as much work either in High Bar....
I’ve been looking for a video like this-thanks for all the info!
Thanks for watching!
Who's got the link for the video on scapular mobility and control that chad mentioned ~18:00
Andrew Shahbazian th-cam.com/video/Sk0xwz6jNiM/w-d-xo.html
Never going back to high bar. Ive always stayed away from low because it was uncomfortable but one day i was just like fuck it because i had hit a plateau in squat. Ive added probably 30lbs to my squat. Definitely recommend low for most powerlifters
Excellent video, thanks.
Thank you very much for this,very helpful.
So for jumping and sprinting power movements training it doesn't matter what variation you use just sqauting 🤔
High bar vs front squat please!!
But why?Do one for a block, and the other for the next...you need to be strong in all of them.
Both. Front squat has more carryover in weightlifting, but you can load a high bar squat much more than a front squat.
This is what I really neeeeeeed.
Low Bar + ATG Front Squat = GAINZ!
Same. I get about 15% more out of low bar, but front squat for the mobility.
Do you mean "gains"?
Triston Valadez in bodybuilding, your opinion is right! U build more quads muscles! Low bar trains your back and quads!
Your back doesn’t do shit in high bar squat.
Low bar squat with hip drahve is da best form of squat
takes too much out of your posterior chain
I'll have to start doing more high bar squats for my hypertrophy stages. Thanks!
They seem to be very nice guys. thank you sharing so much knowledge with us.
Well I feel pretty bad now! I sucked at high bar. At every rep I felt I was fighting not just the weight but the technique as well, every set was grindy hell, whether 60-100-140 kilos. Then on a whim I changed to low bar and somehow it was immediately more comfortable (although I did spend a few weeks acclimating, mostly for the shoulders). I felt like an efficient "machine", where the cogs fit neatly... maybe I am just weak :(
No you’re not, you just have better mechanics for low bar probably. Throw in high bar during your hypertrophy blocks to get your low bar even stronger
Fiatalember
Are your legs long relative to your upper body?
Rara Avis yepp. Im pretty tall as it is (196cm) but my limbs go all the way and back too
Disregard the entirety of the grief the low bar Squat was given in this video. These very intelligent gentlemen have successfully replaced an entire discussion on the subject of mechanics and consideration for trainees like yourself, with “its just different”. Don’t let this video discourage you, keep training productively, and get a good coach. Hell I’ll be happy to take a look at your training footage, lmk.
Fiatalember
I agree with Michael. I know only a handful of people who naturally prefer lowbar squats (including myself) and they are all awkwardly built for squatting.
Long legs (or rather long thighs) lead to a point of gravity further back as you lower yourself into the squat ...and if your hip mobility doesn’t allow to compensate for that with a wide stance you’ll naturally have to lean forward a bit more so as not to fall backwards. Which sucks for your back, because due to laws of leverage, the same weight will actually place a considerably higher burden on you than on someone with short legs and a more upright posture.
Placing the bar somewhat lower on your back might not look like a big deal when you see it on others, but it can feel rather different on yourself, if it elevates some of that additional strain.
Well, that’s at least how my trainer explained it to me and it seemed to make sense.
You just gotta do the best with what you have 🙂
Great video!
Which squat for athletes
For team sport athletes?
www.jtsstrength.com/3-keys-exercise-selection-sport-performance/
what does it mean then? Should i low bar or high bar?
@@kk-ds9ix I think it depends on the sport and how you want it to translate. If you're doing oly lifting, then I think the highbar is more specific. If you're using your squat for general strength development, either will do. I do a video on my channel all about the squat, check it out, it might help you.
great video guys
High bar back squat caused me to get a nasty scab that burns on my upper back where the bar is. Any tips??
If doing super total training would it be better to high bar or low bar squat?
Question: Will doing more low-bar squat have more transfers to deadlift than high-bar does?
Depends on the lifter's build and preference. My back angle on high bar looks more like my back angle on conventional deadlift. Either way, they both help. Heavy low bar work will probably fatigue you more than high bar
I was feeling ashamed for low bar squatting and quit, But now i wen tback to it now that it is understood, its all in your Body's Shape
Exactly, you need to do whatever variation lets you get to parallel. I do a video on this on my channel. check it out, it might help you out.
If I do too many squat variations I seem to lose the groove or technique of low bar then when I want to lift heavy!
Please do more videos
Im going LB thnx
In your older series "Squat school" you examine someones high bar squat, and say that what he is doing well is breaking at the knees first. But in this video, you said you should break at both the knees and the hips at the same time. Which one is it?
yandereSyndrome the cue in squat school was being done because he always went hips first, so needed to overcue towards the knees to correct. Hips and knees together is best bet, weightlifters may still tend to knees first because torso being upright is such high priority for them.
Thanks for the reply!
really useful video
Ohhhhh now you tell me to high bar on the hypertrophy phase when I'm almost to my strength phase! I'll get it one of these days
The weird thing is, they start the video by talking about how much it doesn't matter and they ste essentially the same exercise. Then proceed to give all the differences.
For a low bar squat do you think squat shoes would help? My ankle mobility isn't the best. I want to get the Nike romaleos.
If anyone can give me some feedback that would be great! Thank you!
Roberto Gomez Hey man I have Romaleos. They help a lot with front squat and oly work but I didnt like them for low bar. That being said if you’re limited by ankle mobility it might be a good shoe for you. It’s a pretty aggressive heel, there are other shoes like the rebook powerlifters that have a lower heel. I have a video on my channel all about squatting, check it out and lmk if you need anything.
I have a bulged disc in my low back that makes squatting suck or at least heavy squatting. Its ok for volume and burnouts but not really for heavy anymore. The low bar position makes me ensure i truely lock my spine in a proper arch and my shoulders back allowing me to maintain proper form through each rep vs the high bar position which feels unstable and ends up tweeking that disc that hits the sciatic nerve. So although low bar may build a little less mass and the form may not be the same as high bar but it allows me to still squat even with injury.
Even saying this i agree that the high bar is over all better.
I’ve had exactly the same experience. In high bar I’d tweak my disc at 100kgs. Low bar - not a peep at 220kg.
So informative. Thanks guys!
Thanks
Thus, do you say that for general strength training it doesn't matter which style we choose? I thought that low-bar is better for this purpose (more wight on the bar and more muscles used for the execution of the movement). I am not talking about powerlifting or weightlifting.
If your goals are general, I'd probably train generally ie. use both plus other variations too.
@@JuggernautTrainingSystems say I'm doing juggernaut method, would it be good to train highbar for the 10, 8, 5 rep waves, then do lowbar for the 3 rep wave and any 1rm testing?
In my opinion, the squat variation that allows you to get to parallel would be best for general strength development. I do a video on my channel that talks about the different squat variations. check it out, it might help you out.
@@aveno971 Honestly man, if you're going to test your 1rm, I would train the variation that you're going to test. Although the difference in muscle activation isn't too important (I do a video on my channel about this), the technique on what is different than the technique of the other so if your goal is to actually test squat strength, and not be limited by the transition of technique, I would train with the variation you plan on testing. You could vary the squat variation the further your are from your 1rm test but as you get closer you should get more specific.
Should you lockout your hips or not in both high bar and low bar squat?
There are millions of misinformation around the web.. Thanks JTS for enlighten us... 😍
The two movements look very similar
Verry good video! I only don't get how a low bar squat looks like a overhead squat?
Assuming proper shoulder mobility and technique, low bar squatting shouldn't be hurting the elbows right? Or is that just inevitable for some people? I'm certain my technique is off, so that's my issue and I may switch to high bar just to avoid the possibility of aggravating my elbows.
In my experience the low bar can be problematic for some people. You could alternate between the two and still get great benefits. obviously if you're going to test your 1rm, you should get more specific for the squat variation you're going to test, but in terms of general strength development they're both viable options. I do a video on my channel about it that might help you out.
@@Wallace_Fitness_Center Is It okay squat high bar without shoes-barefoot?
@@fuadismayilzada1816 I think if you have the proper amount of dorsiflexion to get to depth barefoot, and you have a normal arch, It's probably okay to squat without shoes high bar.
Any advice for tall, long limbed people for working on high bar squats? I was under the impression that low bar was better for my biomechanics and I suddenly have a coach that will not let me use them. Is it just a matter of practicing the form until it becomes natural?
Joel Rudy You might want higher heels in your Weightlifting shoes.
Does anyone know anything about a 'mid trap' squat? I'm neither high or low bar and find mid trap the sweet spot for me, I'm just wondering which of the two this is closest to? I break at the hips and have a torso lean so guessing more low bar for me anyway.
IMO you're splitting hairs here. If the bar is comfortable and is sitting mid trap, and you're capable of getting to parallel, you're good to go. I do a video on my channel that analysis bar placement on the squat, take a look and it might answer a lot of your questions.
Chad, you've trained many football players, what do you do with athletes who have a hard time reaching depth in the high bar squat? I've never been able to perform a proper high bar squat (with full depth and a reasonably close stance) without Olympic Lifting shoes. The same goes for both of my younger brothers. Since neither of them own shoes with a heel, I advised them to switch to low bar. They have and their form has improved dramatically.
(Im not Chad) First of all, for football players, Id say hbbs and lbbs doesnt make much difference in the first place. Or rather, it depends on the needs and situation of the athlete which may of them may give you a slight advantage. For example, DL or OL: often lbbs-like stances in tackles, WR or RB - more upright posture with more knee flexion when cutting. Or in season vs off season: In season your lower back has enough to cope with, so tending to hbbs. Then: What do you mean with reaching depth in hbbs? Im asiking because some think that hbbs automatically means ATG (for whatever reason). You can still choose whatever depth you think is appropriate. If you squat a little above thighs parallel youd still have equal or more knee flexion than in a lbbs. But Id recommend either just continuing with lbbs or simply achieving more ankle mobility which you can profit from in general (youtube "ankle stretch").
Thanks for the response. I personally perform both high bar and low bar squats. I just can't comfortably reach parallel in a high bar squat without heels. I bought a pair of adipowers about a year ago, so now I utilize both styles of squat in my training, during the offseason especially. In season, I actually do most of my squats low bar, unless my low back is feeling really beat up (as you mentioned). My reasoning for this is that I would prefer my hips to be more sore during season rather than my quads (if I did high bar). My brothers and I are all Defensive linemen btw.
If specificity is key, why does the front squat not satisfy the weightlifter's requirements? What does the high bar squat supply that the front squat lacks, and does it supply that thing better than low bar? This seems the key point in the low bar for weightlifters discussion, and it doesn't seem to get addressed.
James Griffin GREAT point
It's too hard on your core, upperback, and even wrists and elbows to front squat 3 times a week if you're an average lifter.
This. Both back squat variants dont have those limiting factors and allow you to train your legs harder.
Assuming still that specificity is the main factor, would you agree the ideal option would be to front squat as much as possible, and high bar squat as little as is required to ensure recovery, to stay as specific as possible?
Exactly - and from that to the reverse: hbbs as much as possible and fs as little as is required. Depending on the context: level of lifter, weaknesses, training season and so on. Even in elite level weightlifters, who are on the highly specific end of the spectrum, hbbs play an important role to generate manageable squatting volume. You can watch pre-competition training sessions of WC and the Olympics with hbbs. Pretty heavy, close to the competition, whereas powerlifters do a much more distinct tapering. Case in point /watch?v=MI0L7E_5Qac
16:40 Are you related to Joe Kovacs???
Should I keep my elbows perpendicular to the bar during the squat or can I keep 'em in line with my torso?
How much more % weight do you think you can get on a one rep max with the low bar over the high bar?
It can’t be exactly calculated but most people say it will be approximately 10% increase in low bar squat
can I squat high bar without shoes-barefoot?
Great video. .
Great videos, but what, WHAT did Max eat?!?!
Been wondering for years
Could you use high bar for a secondary move
Yea
If I get bicep cramp doing low bar, do I have to move my hands out or am I do8ng something wrong?
This may help: th-cam.com/video/Sk0xwz6jNiM/w-d-xo.html
Marissa is strong AF, I could watch her squat all day
thanks!
I say ATG front squat is overall the most rewarding variation
I think that it's just dependent on your goals at the end of the day.
Do you enjoy rewards such as an inability to breathe, and constant knee pain?
James Griffin comments like that show your lack of understanding
James Griffin constant knee pain? lmao
Lizard, Yes. if you front squat, not only will your knees hurt forever, but when you die (probably from not being able to breathe while front squatting), you will be reincarnated as a millipede so you can enjoy 200 times the knee pain forever more.
Low bar brings the hamstrings in to play more....building bigger legs.
A.F.S. Or you could just do high Bar for the quads then deadlift variations for the hamstrings dumbass.
Low Bar brings hamstrings in to play more, but takes out a lot of quad & abs. The combo of the anterior chain dominant high Bar squat and a posterior Chain lift like a stiff leg deadlift is how you achieve the best leg development.
@@puppy8125 you don't work less quad on low bar it's the same
Aita's squats are beautiful
6 sets of 10 HB Squats, goddamn man. How many total sets a week of legs would someone like Marisa be doing in a hypertrophy block?
15ish
Chad looks like a friendlier Jeremy Hamilton lol
Should've probably stressed back positioning with respect to hand placement more. It comes naturally to us that have done many thousands of reps but untalented newbies botch it.
I came here from starting strength. Its sacrilegious what they are saying about low bar squats.
I am much better suited for high bar squats. Low bar squats just have me kissing my knees, and over straining my lower back.
A few clarifications I would like to ask for.
At 0.57, it is suggested that defining a low and high bar rack is pointless. In fact, there arguably exists definitions for low and high bar. The bar is placed on the lowest point it can be carried, in such a way that the elbows and wrists are not carrying the load. This is just under the spine of the scapula. The high bar is on top of the traps. Most of the time, anything in between is uncoached, or singularly justified by idiosyncrasies.
At 1.59, it is asserted that the low bar squat necessitates forward lean to stop the bar rolling off the back. This is incorrect- the increased torso angle is derived from the relation of the midfoot to the placement of the bar on the back. With a correct grip, the bar shouldn't be rolling around.
At 2.15 it is suggested that there exists further consideration for determining trunk angle- the athlete's individual strengths in either the back of legs. This appears to be an arbitrary binary categorisation. You state that it behooves someone with a strong back to lean over even more to use this back. Are you possibly conflating back strength with hip extension? Is this a chicken/egg scenario- the longer legged lifter must lean over in respects to mechanical efficiency and therefore develops what take the appearance of dominant hip extension? Is there due consideration to what this might do to the placement of the bar in respects to the midfoot balance point?
At 4.27, the lifter is instructed to drive the bar with his back. Is not the back held isometrically rigid? Is not the back the transmission to the 'motor' of the hip and knee extension - in both high and low bar squats? Again, are you conflating using the back with hip extension?
At 4.37, it is stated that the moment arm is shorter between the bar and the hips. This is incorrect; the moment arm is shorter in a high bar squat. The longer moment arm facilitates the added use of the hamstrings to contribute to a bigger lift. Not the nebulous "back."
Having watched many of their videos, they consistently seem to use "back" to refer to hip extension.
That's quite imprecise. The hamstrings are hip extensors. Are they not part of the legs?
Sure, I completely agree with you, to conflate back extension with hip extension when either can be a limiting factor, and require different solutions, is needlessly confusing.
I cant speak for the two guys or for Juggernaut, but imo youre right about the conflated language "back, hip extension". And also the "rolling bar" comment struck me as very peripheral to your far more substantial reason of bar mechanics. The video is more about practical experiences in coaching both squat variants than a scientific explanation. Although "driving your back into the bar" very probably is just a cue for getting the hips back under the bar, after the torques having been shifted a bit to more hip extension to reduce quad load (a natural occurence in hard squats).
For your question about 4.37: Its a bit different than that. Disclaimer: I suspect by your expressions that youre an ardent follower of SS. Well, you will probably not like what im going to post and might not even accept facts contradicting the non-scientific bubble the SS community is ...sooo nevertheless, have fun reading (and maybe changing your mind :) ): www.strongerbyscience [dot] com/high-bar-and-low-bar-squatting-2-0/
who cares , its all about Body shape
is there any hard data on the high bar being better than low bar for weightlifting (i.e. more than just anecdote and appeal to authority)? It seems like it'll be a huge black swan if it ever turns out to be wrong. I can't find the mythical "soviet studies" that supposedly exist.
How would you propose that idea could be proved 'wrong' or 'right' for that matter by a study? One significant data point that some may consider anecdote (but what is observation besides looking at lots of anecdotes) is that 99.99% of international weightlifting champions have used a high bar position instead of a low bar position. The onus would be on someone who really holds the belief that low bar is superior to produce multiple high level lifters with that. Its far fetched to think that someone who is successfully coaching lifters using high bar squats is going to switch their athletes to low bar squats to disprove a group of people that they already know to be wrong.
@JTS
I agree that the burden of proof should in those who are neutral or favor lbbs. I also agree that experimental design would be complicated in both willingness to comply and complexity in comparison. I didn't mean to sound argumentative, by the way, I am legit looking for hard data.
I completely agree with you that well run longitudinal weightlifting studies answer the question ideally.
In the unfortunate absence of that, you could make predictions on the evidence we have in squat studies: hbbs trains the quads through a longer range of motion, offering a bit more hypertrophy and angle-specific strength (weightlifters need strength in very acute knee angles), whereas lbbs trains the hamstrings a bit more. So, it isnt a huge difference, but considering that added to the the practical points that weightlifters already have a lot of pulling exercises to do which already stress the low back (and hamstrings), the hbbs is a bit more suitable for a weightlifting program. Id suspect the different outcomes to be much smaller than many people would think, though, because you certainly could program differently when using the lbbs: for example, a bit less non-specific pulling and more front squats to make up for less quad strength/hypertrophy.
Because most weightlifters do high bar and not low bar. That's tr he simple answer.
I'm no expert: if you're a powerlifter AND you have longer legs THEN low bar is preferable. However if you have shorter femurs, quad dominant, AND you're in Oly lifting or crossfit, then high bar is probably preferable. Both are useful. This is a great explanation by Chad and Matt btw.
Low bar is preferable for almost everyone with the mobility to tolerate it. If you have excessively long femurs you may find you already have a moderate level of forward lean even in a high bar position. With long femurs and the bar further down your back this increases the forward lean to maintain balance. some people low bar squat and their torso practically faces the floor. other people with super short femurs can low bar squat and be super upright. As far as direct leverage and moment arms are concerned assuming the lifter is muscularly balanced then low bar should theoretically always come out with superiority.
I'm also no expert, but i do consider myself a student of the game.
My squat didn't improve until I switched to low bar. High bar gave me lower back pain and it was harder to balance.
Zlatan those symptoms often point to overarching your low back. Doing this leads to excessive lumbar flexion and a weak abdominal brace. Which will give you back pain.
As a long leg lifter I have to disagree. Low bar always left pounds out on the table for me. Placing the bar on the rear delts forces me to severely lean forward from the start. However loading directly inline with the axial skeleton on a highbar and abducting my feet with a slightly wider gives me the prefect set up for power.
I myself have very long femurs. Squatting with a more medium stance can be troublesome for someone with long femurs and low bar because of the forward lean required. there's a simple fix for this. Sumo stance squats. Going from a medium stance squat to a sumo stance squat optimised all of my leverages. it allows my hips to be more under the bar, reducing the moment arm between the hips and the bar. also reduces the ROM of the lift. stronger out of the hole because of a 90 degree knee angle at depth opposed to like 70 degrees. and this change literally added 30kg to my 10RM within a week.
If i were you i'd consider the option.
how do I get huge quads high or low bar?
guru kev high bar
th-cam.com/video/sOulQsTimB8/w-d-xo.html
Front squats.
CHEERS BRO!
Will try this
Isn't the key point here that high bar squatting is the best way to build strength and low bar squatting is the best way to attain your ABSOLUTE strength
Thank you Max Aita and...Notorious Westside Hater CWS!!!
Chad's high bar squats look exactly like a low bar
Highbar masterrace