Hi Stuart. We had CBPV in one of our hives last year. We first noticed this in July with exactly the same symptoms as you have shown and described in today's video. In September, we had multiple bee deaths outside the hive and called in our local bee inspector. He took some samples for the Newcastle research and noted that he had never seen the shaking so bad. It had been a very strong hive, 5 box hive (Rose method). He did acknowledge that there was no recognised treatment however he did suggest the following: we removed the hive from its stand and replaced with a new, clean, full box of capped honey from a healthy hive and on top of this, a box of foundation (everything was new, crown board, lid, floor, stand etc. We located the queen and placed her in the new hive and shook all of the bees 10 feet away from the hive onto a sheet with a ramp up to the new hive entrance. Eventually, all the healthy bees walked into the hive and were convinced they had swarmed and so went into overdrive and drew out the top box within the week, helped by a 1:1 sugar syrup. Obviously all the weaker bees did not make it back to the new hive, however we also feel that by making them think they swarmed perhaps galvanised them and fought off the disease. We shook the bees and made them walk on the 9th September. We do have a late honey flow here so this would have helped. The hive was unfortunately near to another hive. This also developed the virus but slightly later and so when it came to the later stages of the disease, it was mid September and the weather was not conducive to perform the 'walk'. We then had a direct comparison of the two hives throughout winter. Both hives we treated for varroa in January with Apibioxal. The death rate in the second hive was significant whereas the 'walked' hive was robust. Coming into this Spring, our 'walked' hive made a massive come back, this is with the original queen too. Our second hive just got through the winter however we lost the queen in April. We are keeping a careful watch on our hives this year and so far there has been no sign of the virus in any of the hives. Another option that was suggested was take the original hive up to 100 metres away and shake them on the ground. Therefore only the strongest flying bees would make it back to the hive. However due to being so late in the season, we took the 'walk' option instead. We don't regard this as a cure all, but it seemed to work very successfully in our case.
Hi Andy, Thank you so much for such a details comment. I'm moving the colony to an isolation apiary today and as a first step am going to try the "Shake and Walk" method. I will record a video to show what I am doing and give everyone an idea as to how the process is carried out and to show if it works. Stewart
The Norfolk Honey Company I've done it this way which is pretty much the same as above www.vita-europe.com/beehealth/blog/chronic-bee-paralysis/ If you know the bee farmer you could always ask for advice.
It’s August 2020 and Just watched this video after spotting black shaking bees on one of my hives - I have 4 in total. I’m in my second year beekeeping so this is upsetting and confusing😕. What to do? So thank you for this comprehensive comment. I’ll discuss with another member of my club about what to do. Thanks
I have two hives both had CBPV and now left with nothing. It is very sad to experience from my perspective, but also the poor bee's. Really questioned if I should continue this as a hobby. I also followed very strict hygiene principals with the Hives.... gutted
Removed a feral colony from a friend's garage that had this virus. I re queened it and kept them isolated and fed and the numbers of "walking dead" started dwindling until the hive became fully healthy and grew into a second deep brood box. One of my strongest hives now.
Hi Stephen, thanks for your comments. That's really interesting. I'm going to try a few different moves to see if I can get them back into good health. Stewart
Hi Stewart, we had a hive back in September with CBPV, it was spotted when we had a Bee inspector visit us, we were given two options, destroy the hive or relocate and place in isolation, we decided to relocate and the Bees improved dramatically, building up in numbers, unfortunately the hive died out in February after the cold snaps of weather, I must add that once isolated a few weeks later the number of dead Bees dramatically reduced
Hi Stewart I am very sorry to hear of your problem. I think your right moving it to an isolation apiary would be a good idea. Then moving the hive every 3 days may be a good idea Getting ridd of the elder bees so reduce infection by older bees. I am suggesting this as a last resort. There may be a better methods. I would leave a dummy hive in place of the hive thats been moved and be prepared to feed. Hope you get a solution soon Regards John Owen
Hi M.K., Thanks for commenting. Partly, the reason for the video was to help other beekeepers identify this awful viral infection. Hopefully, you'll not see it but if you do, you'll have an idea of what it is. Stewart
In the days before I identified this infection in one of my hives, I noticed a lot of what I took to be somewhat frantic looking grooming behavior on the landing board.
Hi Stuart. As always your videos are of great help. We spotted last year CBPV in a single hive that was fortunately separated from our main apiary. It was an incredibly busy and productive hive. We increased the brood size with a super and fed well, which took us into the winter. In the spring the hive was still alive and had no signs of CBPV, so we thought the problem was resolved. About a month ago we noticed queen cells had been produced and on careful inspection we thought we saw a few bees looking like they had CBPV. We left alone and within a week we saw that CBPV was back in earnest with many dead bees. The re-queening didn't work. The hive is now very small and sad. As CBPV is so devastating we have decided to lose the hive. The question is, what do we do with the brood, supers, boxes stand and frames? It would appear that freezing will not work. Will flaming? if you have any ideas on the reuse of kit, we would love to hear from you. Many thanks.
I've learned a little about this and would like to share what I know here. It's the fecal matter that infects, and when other healthy bees attempt to get rid of it and clean the hive they are reinfected. So what I have heard will turn this around is get a brand new hive and set it in the same, or close, location. Cage the queen, and get rid of the entire old hive. The place a blanket far out away from the new hive and shake all the old bees. The non-infected will walk in, leaving all the infected behind. This give them a new hive, and new start, and has worked in where I learned about it.
Just a suggestion for thought, relocate the hive and isolate ,after the hive has reoriented do the laying worker method of shacking the bees off all of the frames at a good distance from the hive( after U cage the queen) and study the results. I know that this theory doesn't work for that problem, but like I said just something to think about .Thanks for your videos.
Hi Stuart, I am one of those new beekeepers that started with one hive I caught a swarm at the beginning of May and noticed a few of these black greasy looking bees while catching this swarm. When setting up my hive I started with a queen separator between the base and bottom brood box I noticed after a few days that I had drones trying to enter the hive. Here is my crazy Siri I think it is the drones spreading viruses and mites. Curious to see if anyone else has tried this. They hive a still doing well. I have noticed a consistent number of black greasy bees. So far so good my bees are still growing strong. I say build an immunity to said virus. If they fail let it be nature. If nature does it’s thing and evolves then great.
Hi, Thanks for the comments. It may well be drones passing the virus on, I'm going to try several possible protocols to try to help the colony survive and we'll see what happens. Stewart
Poor drones! Old foragers can look black and shiny and particularly those that rob other colonies can take on this appearance. Storch, 'At the Hive Entrance', describes this. Keeping viruses under control requires distancing, good nutrition, good housing and the chance to out-evolve - we all know this now in the COVID pandemic and ought to apply it to the bees.
Hi Calum, yes, you know I can stare for what seems like hours and not see the queen and then get home, edit the video and spot her straight away on the recording! Stewart
Being pedantic here - they can't be showing the signs and symptoms, the symptoms are what the patient tells you, for example "I have an upset stomach", the signs are those you see yourself by examining the patient.
Can you treat them with tea tree old & lemon grass in a sugar syrup. I used a ratio of 1 to 1 and 6 tea tree, and 4 lemon grass. Give it a try. No have in trying. It's done my weak hive wonders.
Hi Stuart Do you have an idea why I have dead baby bees under my hive in the last few days (April 15th) I would be glad of any information you can give me, thanks. Pam
Hi Pamela, There could just be a few bees that have died in their cells before emerging as adult bees and your colony is good at housekeeping (Hygenic bees). Unless you find lots of dead bees outside I wouldn't be too worried about it. If you start to find piles of bees outside check for Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus. Stewart
I have only just come across this CBPV myself and have some questions to prompt a discussion. If the varroa mite is the vector in the transmission of the DWVirus by sequentially sucking the young bees blood and transmitting it that way, is the varroa also the vector for CBPVirus and not just physical proximity (overcrowding). If overcrowding was the vector why do not all the bees catch it? Why does the queen not get it? What is different about her apart from the varroa not being tolerated on her? Why do some colonies survive and others do not? If there is anyone with any views or facts I would be pleased to hear them.
Paul stamets in America did research with Washington state University on viruses in bees being treated with mycelium it also doubled the forager bees life exoectancy. Check him out on you tube. He loves bees and mushrooms treating many things. I'm new to beekeeping but I'm growing mushrooms for the bees and will supplement their sugar syrup too.
Hi Barn Bees, I've done a fair amount of reading of scientific papers and several discuss the fact that there does not seem to be a direct link with the varroa mite. Having said that, they were treated overWinter for the varroa mite and in Spring checks mite counts were very low. Stewart
Hi D.B., That's a really interesting observation. Do you have any examples of why you think this is the case? Last Autumn was the first time I've used Apistan for a long time, over five years in fact, and it was pretty effective. I'm very cautious of a build up of resistance so I won't be using it again for at least 4-5 yrs. I am leaning towards just using Oxalic Acid treatments going forward. Stewart
The Norfolk Honey Company it’s just a hunch on my part, and I could be way off and even wrong. I think Apistan is a central nervous system killer, I would just be concerned about hive residual, like in the wax, and long term exposure. I could be way off.
Hi Richard, Thanks for the comment. It would seem as if it would be possible following the logical steps of transmission by contact, but I don't know for sure. I don't think there is any research evidence to that fact as far as I am aware. Stewart
That seems unlikely as the virus particles are mainly in the mushroom bodies (infection mainly in the bee's brain) and so probably aren't transmitted through the sexual act, in terms of worse infection the drones probably aren't able to fly at that point to mate with the queen anyway. Would be interesting to see if the drones are infected at the same rate as the workers.
Hi William, Thanks for the comment. I've not seen any wash boarding behaviour with this colony, no. It would be very interesting if they were doing that though. Stewart
Hi Joseph, After nurturing them through all of last Summer and into this Spring it appears I have finally lost the fight and they look like they will succumb. The exercise was really as part of the research being carried out by Professor Giles Budge at Newcastle University and having followed all of the directions they didn't seem to make any recovery. As aq commercial beefarmer the obvious thing to do is to destroy them to stop it spreading further and clean/reuse the equipment. Stewart
Hi Stuart. We had CBPV in one of our hives last year. We first noticed this in July with exactly the same symptoms as you have shown and described in today's video. In September, we had multiple bee deaths outside the hive and called in our local bee inspector. He took some samples for the Newcastle research and noted that he had never seen the shaking so bad. It had been a very strong hive, 5 box hive (Rose method). He did acknowledge that there was no recognised treatment however he did suggest the following: we removed the hive from its stand and replaced with a new, clean, full box of capped honey from a healthy hive and on top of this, a box of foundation (everything was new, crown board, lid, floor, stand etc. We located the queen and placed her in the new hive and shook all of the bees 10 feet away from the hive onto a sheet with a ramp up to the new hive entrance. Eventually, all the healthy bees walked into the hive and were convinced they had swarmed and so went into overdrive and drew out the top box within the week, helped by a 1:1 sugar syrup. Obviously all the weaker bees did not make it back to the new hive, however we also feel that by making them think they swarmed perhaps galvanised them and fought off the disease. We shook the bees and made them walk on the 9th September. We do have a late honey flow here so this would have helped. The hive was unfortunately near to another hive. This also developed the virus but slightly later and so when it came to the later stages of the disease, it was mid September and the weather was not conducive to perform the 'walk'. We then had a direct comparison of the two hives throughout winter. Both hives we treated for varroa in January with Apibioxal. The death rate in the second hive was significant whereas the 'walked' hive was robust. Coming into this Spring, our 'walked' hive made a massive come back, this is with the original queen too. Our second hive just got through the winter however we lost the queen in April. We are keeping a careful watch on our hives this year and so far there has been no sign of the virus in any of the hives. Another option that was suggested was take the original hive up to 100 metres away and shake them on the ground. Therefore only the strongest flying bees would make it back to the hive. However due to being so late in the season, we took the 'walk' option instead. We don't regard this as a cure all, but it seemed to work very successfully in our case.
Hi Andy,
Thank you so much for such a details comment. I'm moving the colony to an isolation apiary today and as a first step am going to try the "Shake and Walk" method.
I will record a video to show what I am doing and give everyone an idea as to how the process is carried out and to show if it works.
Stewart
The Norfolk Honey Company I've done it this way which is pretty much the same as above www.vita-europe.com/beehealth/blog/chronic-bee-paralysis/ If you know the bee farmer you could always ask for advice.
Hi beehinde,
Thanks for commenting. I've emailed the beefarmer to seek his advice too.
Stewart
It’s August 2020 and Just watched this video after spotting black shaking bees on one of my hives - I have 4 in total.
I’m in my second year beekeeping so this is upsetting and confusing😕. What to do? So thank you for this comprehensive comment. I’ll discuss with another member of my club about what to do. Thanks
I have two hives both had CBPV and now left with nothing. It is very sad to experience from my perspective, but also the poor bee's. Really questioned if I should continue this as a hobby. I also followed very strict hygiene principals with the Hives.... gutted
Removed a feral colony from a friend's garage that had this virus. I re queened it and kept them isolated and fed and the numbers of "walking dead" started dwindling until the hive became fully healthy and grew into a second deep brood box. One of my strongest hives now.
Hi Stephen,
thanks for your comments. That's really interesting. I'm going to try a few different moves to see if I can get them back into good health.
Stewart
I know it has been years since this video was posted, but did you ever determine anything from your experimenting?
Hi Stewart, we had a hive back in September with CBPV, it was spotted when we had a Bee inspector visit us, we were given two options, destroy the hive or relocate and place in isolation, we decided to relocate and the Bees improved dramatically, building up in numbers, unfortunately the hive died out in February after the cold snaps of weather, I must add that once isolated a few weeks later the number of dead Bees dramatically reduced
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the comments. I'm sorting an isolation apiary as we speak.
Stewart
This video has become true to our lives these days
Thank you for all your interesting videos. So generous with your time and knowledge. 🙂👍🏽🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝
Hi Stewart I am very sorry to hear of your problem. I think your right moving it to an isolation apiary would be a good idea. Then moving the hive every 3 days may be a good idea Getting ridd of the elder bees so reduce infection by older bees. I am suggesting this as a last resort. There may be a better methods. I would leave a dummy hive in place of the hive thats been moved and be prepared to feed. Hope you get a solution soon Regards John Owen
Hi John,
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I'm sorting an isolation apiary today and hopefully get them moved tonight.
Stewart
Hi Stuart very informative video thank you so much I’ve seen this before and had no idea I’ll know next time to look for the bald black bees.
Hi M.K.,
Thanks for commenting. Partly, the reason for the video was to help other beekeepers identify this awful viral infection. Hopefully, you'll not see it but if you do, you'll have an idea of what it is.
Stewart
In the days before I identified this infection in one of my hives, I noticed a lot of what I took to be somewhat frantic looking grooming behavior on the landing board.
Thank you, Stewart, this is such a valuable video and what an absolutely terrible virus we need to be aware of.
Hi SFA,
I just wanted to show everyone what to look out for and raise awareness.
Stewart
@@TheNorfolkHoneyCo gzhjggfxx
@@TheNorfolkHoneyCo dvzhhzzgfdghsjzvzcxc
Hi Stuart. As always your videos are of great help. We spotted last year CBPV in a single hive that was fortunately separated from our main apiary. It was an incredibly busy and productive hive. We increased the brood size with a super and fed well, which took us into the winter. In the spring the hive was still alive and had no signs of CBPV, so we thought the problem was resolved. About a month ago we noticed queen cells had been produced and on careful inspection we thought we saw a few bees looking like they had CBPV. We left alone and within a week we saw that CBPV was back in earnest with many dead bees. The re-queening didn't work. The hive is now very small and sad. As CBPV is so devastating we have decided to lose the hive. The question is, what do we do with the brood, supers, boxes stand and frames? It would appear that freezing will not work. Will flaming? if you have any ideas on the reuse of kit, we would love to hear from you. Many thanks.
I've learned a little about this and would like to share what I know here. It's the fecal matter that infects, and when other healthy bees attempt to get rid of it and clean the hive they are reinfected. So what I have heard will turn this around is get a brand new hive and set it in the same, or close, location. Cage the queen, and get rid of the entire old hive. The place a blanket far out away from the new hive and shake all the old bees. The non-infected will walk in, leaving all the infected behind. This give them a new hive, and new start, and has worked in where I learned about it.
Just a suggestion for thought, relocate the hive and isolate ,after the hive has reoriented do the laying worker method of shacking the bees off all of the frames at a good distance from the hive( after U cage the queen) and study the results. I know that this theory doesn't work for that problem, but like I said just something to think about .Thanks for your videos.
Hi HM1,
Thanks for the suggestion. It's one that has been suggested in various forms and I am going to try it out this week.
Stewart
Looking forward to finding out the results.
@ 5:36 in the video it looks like other house bees know of the diseased bee and they are trying to get a hold of her to expel her from the colony.
Hi Glen,
Although terrible to see, I'm really glad I recorded the video as there is so much going on.
Stewart
Hi Stuart, I am one of those new beekeepers that started with one hive I caught a swarm at the beginning of May and noticed a few of these black greasy looking bees while catching this swarm. When setting up my hive I started with a queen separator between the base and bottom brood box I noticed after a few days that I had drones trying to enter the hive. Here is my crazy Siri I think it is the drones spreading viruses and mites. Curious to see if anyone else has tried this. They hive a still doing well. I have noticed a consistent number of black greasy bees. So far so good my bees are still growing strong. I say build an immunity to said virus. If they fail let it be nature. If nature does it’s thing and evolves then great.
Sorry update it was April 25 that I caught my swarm.
Hi,
Thanks for the comments. It may well be drones passing the virus on, I'm going to try several possible protocols to try to help the colony survive and we'll see what happens.
Stewart
Poor drones! Old foragers can look black and shiny and particularly those that rob other colonies can take on this appearance. Storch, 'At the Hive Entrance', describes this. Keeping viruses under control requires distancing, good nutrition, good housing and the chance to out-evolve - we all know this now in the COVID pandemic and ought to apply it to the bees.
The queen is on the side of the frame facing the camera at 13:07, has a yellow spot on her back.
Hi Calum,
yes, you know I can stare for what seems like hours and not see the queen and then get home, edit the video and spot her straight away on the recording!
Stewart
Much easier when you can pause and rewind! If only we could do that in real life!
Being pedantic here - they can't be showing the signs and symptoms, the symptoms are what the patient tells you, for example "I have an upset stomach", the signs are those you see yourself by examining the patient.
Hi,
Sorry to come back so late, but I just watched your video and I would like to know what happened to your colony. Thanks in advance
Bees don't get sick so easily because of the bee pollen and protein powder honey. Nectar
Can you treat them with tea tree old & lemon grass in a sugar syrup. I used a ratio of 1 to 1 and 6 tea tree, and 4 lemon grass. Give it a try. No have in trying.
It's done my weak hive wonders.
Hi Eddie,
Thanks for the comments. Yes, I am going to try a treatment mix with some natural oils in it.
Stewart
Hi Stuart
Do you have an idea why I have dead baby bees under my hive in the last few days (April 15th)
I would be glad of any information you can give me, thanks. Pam
Hi Pamela,
There could just be a few bees that have died in their cells before emerging as adult bees and your colony is good at housekeeping (Hygenic bees). Unless you find lots of dead bees outside I wouldn't be too worried about it. If you start to find piles of bees outside check for Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus.
Stewart
I have only just come across this CBPV myself and have some questions to prompt a discussion. If the varroa mite is the vector in the transmission of the DWVirus by sequentially sucking the young bees blood and transmitting it that way, is the varroa also the vector for CBPVirus and not just physical proximity (overcrowding). If overcrowding was the vector why do not all the bees catch it? Why does the queen not get it? What is different about her apart from the varroa not being tolerated on her? Why do some colonies survive and others do not? If there is anyone with any views or facts I would be pleased to hear them.
Varroa is not a vector of CBPV.
I think I had this in a couple of hives. I live in Mississippi, USA. Do you know any contacts in USA for this virus?
Paul stamets in America did research with Washington state University on viruses in bees being treated with mycelium it also doubled the forager bees life exoectancy. Check him out on you tube. He loves bees and mushrooms treating many things. I'm new to beekeeping but I'm growing mushrooms for the bees and will supplement their sugar syrup too.
That sounds really interesting, I'll take a look when I can.
Have a great beekeeping season.
Stewart
Can the virus be trasmitted if you put honey supers on another colony?
They are also not infected by Corona virus
I believe this virus is transmitted by varroa mites - was this colony treated/monitored for mite levels?
Hi Barn Bees,
I've done a fair amount of reading of scientific papers and several discuss the fact that there does not seem to be a direct link with the varroa mite. Having said that, they were treated overWinter for the varroa mite and in Spring checks mite counts were very low.
Stewart
I would quit using the Apistan for mites, and use oxalic acid. I think It make healthy bees weak and susceptible. Just my thoughts
Hi D.B.,
That's a really interesting observation. Do you have any examples of why you think this is the case?
Last Autumn was the first time I've used Apistan for a long time, over five years in fact, and it was pretty effective. I'm very cautious of a build up of resistance so I won't be using it again for at least 4-5 yrs. I am leaning towards just using Oxalic Acid treatments going forward.
Stewart
The Norfolk Honey Company it’s just a hunch on my part, and I could be way off and even wrong. I think Apistan is a central nervous system killer, I would just be concerned about hive residual, like in the wax, and long term exposure. I could be way off.
Have you ever dealt with foul brood?
Hi Christine,
Yes, both EFB and AFB while I was working for the National Bee Unit as a seasonal bee inspector.
Stewart
Can it be passed on via drones from this colony mating with virgin queens?
Hi Richard,
Thanks for the comment. It would seem as if it would be possible following the logical steps of transmission by contact, but I don't know for sure. I don't think there is any research evidence to that fact as far as I am aware.
Stewart
That seems unlikely as the virus particles are mainly in the mushroom bodies (infection mainly in the bee's brain) and so probably aren't transmitted through the sexual act, in terms of worse infection the drones probably aren't able to fly at that point to mate with the queen anyway. Would be interesting to see if the drones are infected at the same rate as the workers.
So the things could be vacci
Make some Home made honey bee heathy (makes bees stays heathy) get no problems
Hi Ant,
Thanks for the suggestion. I am going to make up a preparation and feed the bees this week.
Stewart
do they wash board too?
Hi William,
Thanks for the comment. I've not seen any wash boarding behaviour with this colony, no. It would be very interesting if they were doing that though.
Stewart
I have what looks like CBPV. Mine are washboarding unlike I've seen in a long time
Luke Galardi I wonder if the wash boarding might be carried on inside the hive.
Would requeening help?
Hi Moebees,
Thanks for the comments.
It may work yes, it has been suggested by others so I may give that a try along with other options.
Stewart
Destroy it isolate the others
Hi Joseph,
After nurturing them through all of last Summer and into this Spring it appears I have finally lost the fight and they look like they will succumb. The exercise was really as part of the research being carried out by Professor Giles Budge at Newcastle University and having followed all of the directions they didn't seem to make any recovery.
As aq commercial beefarmer the obvious thing to do is to destroy them to stop it spreading further and clean/reuse the equipment.
Stewart
@@TheNorfolkHoneyCo it's sad and the research is important but I'd hate to risk the others