I've seen twitter say that Sony needs a 3rd person game to rival CoD because all their single player games "play the same way" but SOCOM and Killzone don't have a single character that isn't completely forgettable and I've played every single Killzone game
@@pogoacct8611I would argue that the majority of PS users only play multiplayer games such as FIFA/EA FC, Madden NFL, and CoD. If you follow closely to the PS quarterly report, this trend is reflected there.
Their games do not sell as well and the reality is next gen will be really hard for Sony. For one, most everything will end up on the Switch 2 and people care more about frame rates and gameplay than they do about 4K graphics. There’s also Microsoft, which is going cross platform while also keeping the Xbox and likely opening up Xbox to various OEMs. Lenovo, Asus, Dell, HP, Acer, etc are all likely to make some Xbox hardware in the future and an Xbox OS is likely to power most PC handhelds. So how does Sony fit in with a locked ecosystem? Nintendo is Nintendo and no one has their IP, so many will just choose Switch.
@@pogoacct8611 I would argue that majority of PS users only play multiplayer games such as FIFA, Madden, or CoD. If you follow closely to Sony's quarterly report, this trend is reflected there.
Forced? Are the big publishers using violence against you to make you buy the games? Do they have dirt on you? Did they kidnap a family member or friend? I'll assume no. Nobody is forcing you. Publishers are businesses, they exist to make money. It's up to you(me and everybody else) to spend you money on games and services that you approve of. If you just go and buy the games then complain about greedy corps online they will just keep on doing it.
The stupidest thing he did was saddle the studios they already had with these things. If they wanted a live service push they should've hired more and made new studios to handle them. Not give them to Naughty Dog and Bluepoint. If they made like a Naughty Dog subsidiary and taken some experienced staff and then recruited to handle the Factions shit then main Naughty Dog wouldn't have wasted so much time and there would've been a studio to keep working on updates
@@SynthLizard8 Xbox learned and evolved, Playstation is doubling down. They can't keep up with WOW, Minecraft, Call of Duty, Overwatch, Diablo IV and so many other Xbox first party games.
@vgnvideogameninja2930 if it was BS then why are they pushing for live service games? The income is lower than production costs of the single player games, look at the GOTY astrobot that it hasnt sold even 2.5mil. Dont be delusional
The worst console I've ever owned. I played the PS2 as a kid but didn't own a Sony console myself until the PS4 Pro (I grew up on Nintendo and eventually had the OG Xbox as well). I enjoyed it enough to get the PS5... bad choice. Yeah, I'm not buying another Playstation console after this.
I’m happy I didn’t fall for it. If it’s not a goofy shape and costs $300 then maybe I’ll go for it but most friends ps5s are collecting dust if they even bought one.
For real OP. This is the most mediocre successful console generation for Sony. Only seeming to do great because they’re contrasted with Xbox falling down on itself constantly. Definitely disagree with other comments that anyone’s PS5 is collecting dust; it’s definitely not bad, especially that bad.
Def a console I regret a bit for buying. The only exclusive I care about that it has and that I bought, is demon souls. Still can’t buy that on pc sadly.
Switch is gonna cater to a different audience. Unless it’s as powerful as a PS5/Xbox Series and has actually good online they really can’t compete with Sony. Nintendo is gonna keep doing the bare minimum unlike the other two.
I don’t understand why you think the Horizon multiplayer game is going to do well. People who like the Horizon games are pretty clearly people who like large, open world single player narrative games. The LEGO game didn’t do well, this isn’t an IP that Sony can just move anywhere and expect people to follow. My prediction is that the Horizon multiplayer game will probably have a decent launch but people will quickly drop off as they realize the world and gameplay aren’t enough to keep people’s interest long term.
I liked Forbidden West but mostly because beautiful graphics and the fact that fighting robo dinos were very fun. The world building or characters were not that strong. Robo Dinos can get you only so far, I'm not going to spend 1000 hours playing that game and spend money for overpriced cosmetics for Horizon. I would rather play Monster Hunter at that point.
That horizon game will have to compete with Monster hunter Wilds. Does it really have a chance against monster hunter... Horizon is always overshadowed by other games.
Yet Sony's not making enough money from their Single Player Games. That's why the PC Ports are accelerating. PlayStation Games will be on Switch 2, and eventually the Xbox itself. Sony is in complete collapse. Single Player is not their salvation.
@@Dark-Glaiveyet we all hearing about the possibility of MCC coming to P5, Outer Worlds already confirmed alongside Doom Dark Ages. Xbox will have to WAIT before Sony gives them a damn game, even horizon going to switch
I think what’s the most frustrating about this situation is that anyone with even a modicum of knowledge about the state of the industry could’ve told you this would be the outcome years ago. This isn’t even a failed bet, it’s just constant and unflinching incompetence from all the people making decisions. It’s truly documentary-worthy
Sony can’t even make decent multiplayer games what made them think they could do live services? Work on that again for a generation or 2 then launch a couple live service games if you really have to never sacrifice the single player experience especially if you haven’t released a single player game as a first party this generation.
@ i heard it somewhere and saw an article that interviewed yoshida and he said he was removed. Maybe I’m wrong, but still jim ryan was a problem for PlayStation and now we are seeing the consequences.
@@ElJosher absolutely Jim Ryan was a problem in this regard, he gave the greenlight for all of this....but Shu wasn't in a position to do anything about it, he wasn't the head of anything regarding these decisions at this point, in fact he was removed from those types of decisions years prior. He can say that ( if he did, I haven't seen a clip of him saying this), but it is probably a hyperbolic statement in hindsight. The truth is he wasn't in a position of power there for years before this stuff even started being discussed. I love Shu, hell all of PS community loved Shu, but this claim just doesn't hold much weight when you just look at the timeline of all of this Sony/live service stuff. Don't take my previous comment, or this one has combative, that wasn't my intent If someone can link me this interview or whatever it is where he supposedly said this, I would love to hear it all in context
Jim Ryan was PlayStation's Don Mattrick although they got away with it because of the brands legacy was/is stronger. They've got alot of work to do though still.
Sony wants to take every dime out of us. Do what you do well, make single player games. I am losing faith in Xbox and Playstation. I don't even buy anything on their consoles anymore. All my purchases this last year are on Steam.
Oh dude same. Ive completely lost interest and just play my old titles and yeah steam. I built my first pc because of the multitude of bs from the console market. Now my consoles are glorified media players.
I’d be worried about Bend and Bluepoint personally. Both are pretty small teams compared to a Naughty Dog or Insomnaic. It’d be very much in current Sony’s leadership pattern to close the studios entirely instead of greenlighting another project form them that won’t release for 3-5 years.
@@NoonDragoonagree . I’d bet anything that BluePoint has lost some key talent after being made to do support studio efforts & a live service title. We know Bend lost two of its top dogs when DaysGone2 was refused by Herman. Consumers are becoming more picky with spending & dev costs/productionTime has exploded
I absolutely loved Demons Souls Remake, so I’m pretty heartbroken that we will now likely not see a Blue Point game for 4-5 years because of this. What a bafflingly stupid decision.
Sony needs to understand they succeed because of single player games. If live service even marginally affects their single player games people might move to another platform.
So...We're just ready to finally say that this is PlayStation's Wii U moment, right? This is legit the worst state they've ever been in, I'd argue it's worse than launch PS3 era. I'm done pretending this is comparable to older gens for Sony. I'm sure they're cleaning up like Nintendo did with the Switch, but the generation is half over. The PS5's legacy doesn't look too great if you ask me.
Sony forgot who they were. People buy into the PlayStation mostly because of the quality of first party studios and games. They've developed an incredibly deep stable of IP's that people have some very strong, emotional attachments to. To try to leverage those to flip a quick Buck using live service was a huge misstep.
I think the real issue with Sony and it's live service endeavors has actually been Herman Hulst. Hulst was the head of PlayStation Studios and the one green lightning these games. He also seems to have this obsession with putting a lot of resources into various Horizon projects while he ignores other IP. IMO he needs to go
Hulst is also the one who wouldn't allow anyone to criticize Concord as it was being developed. Maybe if he allowed some criticism, they would've changed those horrible character designs.
I'm pretty sure there won't be a Bloodborne remaster/remake without Miyazaki involvement. That was a passion project, and Miyazaki is really busy with Elden Ring IP, and who knows what.
It’s a shame that Live Service game couldn’t have been an online-enabled (strand system?) Days Gone 2. Maybe they wanted to do something else, but there’s more they could do with that IP.
I believe it's called having a good, player-friendly platform and making good games. But who am I kidding, those words are an alien language to the Playstation and Xbox brands.
This statement makes no sense, Valve and Nintendo both give experiences way better than Live Service garbage. So no, it's not nothing. They win for many reasons.
Well, Nintendo ontinues to make great exclusives in a range of genres. They don’t always hit, as the Wii U shows, but when they also nail the hardware like the switch (convenient, cheap, handheld console hybrid )that was enough to draw Customers. I’m not even sure what Sony is doing releasing their exclusives on PC. They get short term profit but in the long run it might well hurt. The only things keeping me on console are the physical copies, not having to fiddle with settings to optimise, and relatively cheap hardware. Except now you have an overpriced pro console. Sony keeps taking away these advantages, one by one, so I may not get the PS6 and just stick with PC and Switch 2. Valve has good service with steam, and continues to offer a very consumer friendly platform. It has good deals much better than console ones. They made good hardware with the steam deck. Both companies do a lot, actually, to deserve their success.
This entire generation has felt like a slap to the face by Sony. Buying the PS5 has yielded nothing special, no special moments aside from a handful of games, less than 10 id argue. Nothing has utilized the dualsense or the SSD loading aside from those games in any meaningful way. The upgrade from ps4 to ps5 has definitely lead to buyers remorse.
Scope seems like a bigger issue than anything. Look how many games Nintendo just sits on. Maybe they need to pull back a little and put out fun, not fidelity.
It really makes you wonder how much money successful live service games must make to drive this level of obsession from triple-a studios towards them, despite losing 100’s of millions of dollars the majority of the time.
i feel like theyre forging ahead with this what looks to be unsustainable path and completely ignoring the obvious answer make smaller projects. stop spending 8 years making games. because the time and money you're putting into them doesnt look like its paying off.
i HOPE Playstation finally understands that they need to focus on single-player, story driven games but expanding the different genres and perspectives of stories
Considering that Bluepoint was working on a live service God of War game, and now since it's canceled, maybe now they can do a PS5 re-release of God of War (2018) and/or a remake/remaster of the classic God of War games. As for 'Bend' they could work with Naughty Dog and do a PS5 version of Uncharted 1 2 3 and Golden Abyss. Just a thought....
Playstation 5, over 60 million consoles sold, Astrobot only sold 1.5 million, that's not a good look. They see the writing on the wall. Spider-Man 2 costing over 300 million is just absolutely insane.
It's a lot like how many movie studios keep trying to turn everything into blockbusters when it's quite possible to turn a solid profit by making smaller films which make a lot of money in comparison to their budgets.
Many companies could easily make a live service first if they prioritized the gameplay/content over money The fact they were hiring people to find the best ways to get money from people is very depressing to see as gamers want to play GAMES first (And yes while studios would consider making live service games I’m sure they aren’t a fan of the monetization methods forced into the game eventually)
Everything being a live-service only makes sense if you assume there exist an unlimited number of players, with unlimited amounts of time and unlimited amounts of money; neither of those 3 things are real in this limited, dying world of ours. It was a foolish endeavor from the very beginning.
One Fortnite could theoretically cover 50 GaaS failures and cancellations. Do I think they’ll get their Fortnite? No. Do I want them to? No, that’s not the kind of slop I buy a PlayStation for. But I do think it’s crucial to keep in mind. Otherwise everyone who drills for oil or pans for gold is also having their plans backfire simply because they haven’t found any yet. You can’t rightly look at the situation that way, it’s disingenuous.
This is all Jim Ryan's fault and for that it gor kicked out from tha company. At this point i don't buy the "retired from the industry" argument" out from his mouth.
CEOs and upper administration don't get "fired," they are "asked to step down." In Jim's case, he was "asked to step down" and given he "retired" from the entire industry, he certainly left on a very bad note. In short, Jim was booted out of Sony and left with a bad rep that made him unhirable for any leadership role in the games industry. Anyone who has experience or knows people who have extensive experience in leadership sees this clear as day.
The Bend Studio one just irritates the crap out of me. Days Gone was flawed, yes, but it also was not a complete waste of a game. They put a lot of effort in, and the story was good. The main character was also interesting. They should have taken what they learned and doubled down. Make another single-player game and fix the mistakes of Days Gone. Instead, we have absolutely NOTHING from them for years. Just total and complete mismanagement. Good job, Sony.
Astro and Robocop, amongst other small single player games that have over performed, coupled with obvious vocal backlash to live service has made it clear people have had enough. You can't just create a successful live service game, its largely organic. Start with a good multiplayer attached to a single player game
Fans continue to scream for anything with Bloodborne and Sony just wastes time and money trying to chase the live service bag. That literally is a perfect project for Bluepoint.
Hey John, I have a question for CotD or for the SpawnCast: Why ARE games taking longer and longer to make? Is it because they are becoming bigger (are they though?), is it cause graphics require more time to make now? Is it the over-use crutch of cinematics? Is the animation style too taxing? I presume if games are taking longer, there's a reason for it for why it was quicker before but not now. And, the idea of "reason" is the idea of "If X then Y happens", where Y is "games take longer to make". My question is. . . what even is X in this case and can we just backtrack and prevent Y by just stop doing X? Things are supposed to be MORE efficient as time goes on, not less. So clearly we must have made a wrong turn somewhere. . . right? Cause as it stands, games cost too much to make and they are just not putting enough games out. These all sounds like systematic issues behind the fundamental practices of how all major publishers are managing their studios.
And for the record. I EXCUSIVELY blame uncharted. I feel like that franchise spearheaded this direction in the worst way possible. I'm not saying it's a bad franchise. I'm saying the greater impact it had on the direction the industry took was a negative one.
Sony had a winning hand with Helldivers and they messed it up with forced Sony log in on PC. If they want live service to work, multi release and no Sony log in on other markets.
People seem to be forgetting what led to the live service push in the first place. Their budgets for the big budget blockbusters you all love are unsustainable. Canceling all these projects doesn't solve the original problem. I wonder if there will be pushback when we get the inevitable, everything is a "Playstation" marketing push in 6 months.
They ain’t going third party. Microsoft can afford to do that, but Sony can’t. It’s a major part of their business and they actually value their brand. And making live service games ain’t the way. Cutting down the budgets and limiting the scope of their games is the best course of action. We don’t need 50 hour games where you can see a character sweating and every strand of hair on their forearm. They just got to focus on what matters.
@OtakuUnderground92 When has a Sony big budget game ever hit 50 hours. I'm pretty sure that's very rare. They backed themselves into a corner with the "blockbuster" tag, and now everyone is expecting that. But the Playstation fanbase doesn't buy enough games to justify the budget. You don't have to take it personally. It's just business. Market forces playing out. You can talk about valuing the brand all you want, that doesn't pay the bills. And Sony is moving like a man who has bills to pay. Which is fine, but the days of PS4 style blockbusters are done. You either sell your games on more platforms or you make cheaper games. You can not have it both ways. But watching them try sure is entertaining.
It’s still crazy the amount of people saying it’s smart for Sony to go hard on live service. 1 for 12 probably lost a ton of money. Lack of single player games which drives people to your hardware. And seeming all we will get is more horizon 😢
I feels like some money laundering happening on the background. Just dump shit load of billion money into studio, pretending they are doing something, take out the money and close the studio. Clean money. There is no way , executives are okay with losing billion of money before even they announce a product repeatedly.
I feel so conflicted. On the one hand, I get why these companies are chasing the delicious profits of a “Live service” game. If you hit big with those, you are ROLLING in money. On the other hand, as someone who never touches those kinds of games and I keep seeing them fail over and over again, I feel like these companies might be better off, you know, developing LESS Live service games so they, I don’t know, don’t put themselves out of business spending money on games that result in zero returns. In regards to Sony, though, they have been in such a rout I’m really not surprised they are going so hard at this.
Live service games are a cancer in the industry. Look at what it’s done to Rockstar games. Studios gambled on those titles wanting to be the Fortnite while tying up great studios for years on titles that they’re not passionate about. Can’t wait to see this trend go away.
If they go back to just single narrative experiences, they will have to push for another price increase. They have said already game debelopment is getting expensive and GAAS was their answer. If that doesnt work, its gonna be splicing 1 game into several titles for a staggard release, or price increases yet again.
I think this is a great opportunity to get into retro gaming. Let's see if I can find an old SNES somewhere.... At the very least, it cannot be more expensive than the new stuff....
What annoys me the most is Sony bought a lot of these studios to secure talent, that talent for one reason or another works on a GaaS (live service) game and internally it gets cancelled, THEN they shut that studio down undermining the whole point of the studio purchase. With Bend and Bluepoint it’s different, they are getting new projects to work on but where are the folks who made Concord? Say what you will about whether Concord was fun, but I’ll defend how well polished mechanically the game was and I find it a damn shame those devs weren’t given another go at a single player experience before getting sacked.
I feel like Bend Studio and Bluepoint will be support studios for Santa Monica and Naughty Dog for the time being. After that, I would like to see them begin working on single-player games that are smaller in scope and take less time to make like Astro Bot.
I don't understand why if Sony wants a live service game they don't just brong back an IP they already have. Is love to see a new Warhawk, Socom, Resistance or even Killzone
their 1 player game IP's could make more money because they will actually sell. very few of any live service or MMO can survive if you can't compete with the top guys good luck.
If they want "Live-service" game to succeed on PS consoles, they need to allow the development process to have early access on the console, in order to shape the product. Instead of releasing games that have no one interested in them. Shape your online games with your players.
I wonder how or will this will affect Sony in the long run from consumers side. From my understanding PS5 is selling similar to the PS4 so so far it hasn't hit Sony on outside only from the wasted time and money they spent on the inside.
They need only 1 live service success to recoup whatever loses they’ve been accruing, and all those jobs and companies are losses they are willing to take.
I wouldn't have minded a Division clone from them as I enjoyed those games, but it's understandable there's certain expectations from Sony's games. I just wish we could move away from the movie formula a bit more, bring back more actual fun into the mix. Not saying to kill it entirely as there is some quality there, but it's just gotten too much. Astrobot was a great step towards that, but for the love of everything we need more FUN games.
A majority of playstation's first party studios are now way behind schedule in terms of game releases. Naughty dog wasted 3+ years working on TLOU online, Insomniac wasted time working on Spiderman the great web, Bluepoint wasted 3 years working on a GOW live service, bend have wasted 4+ years working on a live service, Guerilla are currently working on a live service Horizon game. This has essentially ruined playstation's first party output for the entire generation because a majority of their studios have wasted half the generation working on doomed live service projects, and now won't have a new game ready for 3-4 years, meanwhile there's only about 3 years left for this console generation.
Sony live service is backfiring be ready when Sony increases either PS Plus or PlayStation games to $80 or $100 dollars while Gabe pass is still profitable for indie developers as well 3rd party publishers & free to play like marvel rivals Fortnite & many others are staying at the top charts of playing games.
The amount of money and time Sony blew on this live service crap is stupid. Just make good single player games.
They aren't selling.
Astrobot hasn't even sold 2 mill
I've seen twitter say that Sony needs a 3rd person game to rival CoD because all their single player games "play the same way" but SOCOM and Killzone don't have a single character that isn't completely forgettable and I've played every single Killzone game
@@pogoacct8611I would argue that the majority of PS users only play multiplayer games such as FIFA/EA FC, Madden NFL, and CoD. If you follow closely to the PS quarterly report, this trend is reflected there.
Their games do not sell as well and the reality is next gen will be really hard for Sony. For one, most everything will end up on the Switch 2 and people care more about frame rates and gameplay than they do about 4K graphics. There’s also Microsoft, which is going cross platform while also keeping the Xbox and likely opening up Xbox to various OEMs. Lenovo, Asus, Dell, HP, Acer, etc are all likely to make some Xbox hardware in the future and an Xbox OS is likely to power most PC handhelds.
So how does Sony fit in with a locked ecosystem? Nintendo is Nintendo and no one has their IP, so many will just choose Switch.
@@pogoacct8611 I would argue that majority of PS users only play multiplayer games such as FIFA, Madden, or CoD. If you follow closely to Sony's quarterly report, this trend is reflected there.
I HATE the live service gaming trend which BTW has been forced on us by greedy publishers.
You don’t have to play them, nothing is being forced on you.
Sure, but money talent and time is being spent on them that could be spend on games they'd rather play
@@Dac1o9Music You probably would still complain even if sony made more SP games, cause you are toxic hater
@@masajus1 Bold claim. Can you back that up?
Forced? Are the big publishers using violence against you to make you buy the games? Do they have dirt on you? Did they kidnap a family member or friend?
I'll assume no. Nobody is forcing you. Publishers are businesses, they exist to make money. It's up to you(me and everybody else) to spend you money on games and services that you approve of.
If you just go and buy the games then complain about greedy corps online they will just keep on doing it.
Jim Ryan: wasted a generation, blew an unfathomable amount of money, somehow lost in a one-horse race.
He is no Jack Trenton.
Dude got paid tens of millions to burn money and ruin people's livelihood.
The stupidest thing he did was saddle the studios they already had with these things. If they wanted a live service push they should've hired more and made new studios to handle them. Not give them to Naughty Dog and Bluepoint. If they made like a Naughty Dog subsidiary and taken some experienced staff and then recruited to handle the Factions shit then main Naughty Dog wouldn't have wasted so much time and there would've been a studio to keep working on updates
He's the Sony's Don Mattrick with he's Kinect.
@@SynthLizard8 Xbox learned and evolved, Playstation is doubling down. They can't keep up with WOW, Minecraft, Call of Duty, Overwatch, Diablo IV and so many other Xbox first party games.
Whenever a live-service game dies, an angel gets it's wings.
Lol
Sony you’re sitting on so many IP’s that aren’t being used that could use a comeback. Stop the bull and dip into your pool, and bring something back.
Sony: NO! Buy our SLOP instead NOW! NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW! Gimme your money *_NOW._*
But nobody buys them
@@nuno3887 That's pure BS
@vgnvideogameninja2930 if it was BS then why are they pushing for live service games? The income is lower than production costs of the single player games, look at the GOTY astrobot that it hasnt sold even 2.5mil. Dont be delusional
@@nuno3887 It sold a lot better than Concord.
Sony going 1/12 on live service games is crazy
Especially when they didn't have much confidence in Helldivers 2, and they had all of the confidence in the world with Concord.
It's crazier when you consider that they tried to sabotage that one success
@ HD2 still standing strong 🫡 but yeah they tried to though
They are swinging and missing like it's baseball 😂😂😂
@@DevinPosey20 Managed democracy remains undefeated
There's nothing wrong with being happy their plans are failing, Sony should've never started this in the first place.
man ps5 is gonna have a bad second half lifecycle... not that the first was overly good either
The worst console I've ever owned. I played the PS2 as a kid but didn't own a Sony console myself until the PS4 Pro (I grew up on Nintendo and eventually had the OG Xbox as well). I enjoyed it enough to get the PS5... bad choice. Yeah, I'm not buying another Playstation console after this.
I’m happy I didn’t fall for it. If it’s not a goofy shape and costs $300 then maybe I’ll go for it but most friends ps5s are collecting dust if they even bought one.
For real OP. This is the most mediocre successful console generation for Sony. Only seeming to do great because they’re contrasted with Xbox falling down on itself constantly. Definitely disagree with other comments that anyone’s PS5 is collecting dust; it’s definitely not bad, especially that bad.
Def a console I regret a bit for buying. The only exclusive I care about that it has and that I bought, is demon souls. Still can’t buy that on pc sadly.
Worst generation ever. This is why they cried for a few years about needing COD to survive
When Sony thinks itself untouchable, they start slacking and getting greedy.
They’ve gone full on dark side
start of the ps3 gen
@@RGM-79m3r ps3 had so many games in the end. i cant see how the ps5 can be saved....
This. I swear the PS5 generation is textbook definition of coasting on your earlier success.
They're going to learn the hard way thanks to Switch 2
I think Astro Bot winning goty more of a wake-up call for Sony than switch 2. At least I hope so...
SWITCH 2 BABY!
@@FabledFiendShould be a wakeup call for other AAA developers as well.
@FabledFiend how is it a wake up call if it didn't sell that well....
Switch is gonna cater to a different audience. Unless it’s as powerful as a PS5/Xbox Series and has actually good online they really can’t compete with Sony. Nintendo is gonna keep doing the bare minimum unlike the other two.
I don’t understand why you think the Horizon multiplayer game is going to do well. People who like the Horizon games are pretty clearly people who like large, open world single player narrative games. The LEGO game didn’t do well, this isn’t an IP that Sony can just move anywhere and expect people to follow. My prediction is that the Horizon multiplayer game will probably have a decent launch but people will quickly drop off as they realize the world and gameplay aren’t enough to keep people’s interest long term.
Exactly.
Horizon sells well but the IP doesn't have staying power, it's like Avatar
I liked Forbidden West but mostly because beautiful graphics and the fact that fighting robo dinos were very fun. The world building or characters were not that strong. Robo Dinos can get you only so far, I'm not going to spend 1000 hours playing that game and spend money for overpriced cosmetics for Horizon. I would rather play Monster Hunter at that point.
I'll honestly be surprised if it releases at all.
That horizon game will have to compete with Monster hunter Wilds. Does it really have a chance against monster hunter... Horizon is always overshadowed by other games.
Single player > live service
Single-player games can also still be live service though.
@@Mallinaamari Which is bad.
Yet Sony's not making enough money from their Single Player Games. That's why the PC Ports are accelerating. PlayStation Games will be on Switch 2, and eventually the Xbox itself. Sony is in complete collapse. Single Player is not their salvation.
@@Dark-Glaiveyet we all hearing about the possibility of MCC coming to P5, Outer Worlds already confirmed alongside Doom Dark Ages. Xbox will have to WAIT before Sony gives them a damn game, even horizon going to switch
@@joefield5217smash Ultimate was single player live service done right.
I think what’s the most frustrating about this situation is that anyone with even a modicum of knowledge about the state of the industry could’ve told you this would be the outcome years ago. This isn’t even a failed bet, it’s just constant and unflinching incompetence from all the people making decisions. It’s truly documentary-worthy
Sony can’t even make decent multiplayer games what made them think they could do live services? Work on that again for a generation or 2 then launch a couple live service games if you really have to never sacrifice the single player experience especially if you haven’t released a single player game as a first party this generation.
All they see are dollar signs 🤑
100 percent facts
Customers: How many Concords do you want?
Sony: Yes.
How did u Comment 8 hours ago
@robshole channel member. The video was released earlier for members.
@@robsholeit's because they're a member of the channel, and members get early access to video's.
😂😂😂
@@robshole YT channel members get early access to vids
Live services will continue to be canceled until morale improves.
...as with the Nintendo leaks, per our last email
Improve what? Miles Morales is already pretty good.
The problem we dont want live service games and Jim Ryan was a fool for thinking we did.
Yes, Please. Getting really tired of subscriptions on everything
Or the biggest game studios go bankrupt...
Sony removed shuhei yoshida because he didn’t want to adopt this live service strategy. Then they installed Jim Ryan. Look at what happened🤦🏻♂️
That's not true lol. The timelines don't even match
@ i heard it somewhere and saw an article that interviewed yoshida and he said he was removed. Maybe I’m wrong, but still jim ryan was a problem for PlayStation and now we are seeing the consequences.
@@ElJosher yoshida already came out and said it was true
@@ElJosher absolutely Jim Ryan was a problem in this regard, he gave the greenlight for all of this....but Shu wasn't in a position to do anything about it, he wasn't the head of anything regarding these decisions at this point, in fact he was removed from those types of decisions years prior.
He can say that ( if he did, I haven't seen a clip of him saying this), but it is probably a hyperbolic statement in hindsight. The truth is he wasn't in a position of power there for years before this stuff even started being discussed.
I love Shu, hell all of PS community loved Shu, but this claim just doesn't hold much weight when you just look at the timeline of all of this Sony/live service stuff.
Don't take my previous comment, or this one has combative, that wasn't my intent
If someone can link me this interview or whatever it is where he supposedly said this, I would love to hear it all in context
@@ElJosherSo Shu got the boot you're saying
Jim Ryan was PlayStation's Don Mattrick although they got away with it because of the brands legacy was/is stronger. They've got alot of work to do though still.
Sony wants to take every dime out of us. Do what you do well, make single player games. I am losing faith in Xbox and Playstation. I don't even buy anything on their consoles anymore. All my purchases this last year are on Steam.
Oh dude same. Ive completely lost interest and just play my old titles and yeah steam. I built my first pc because of the multitude of bs from the console market. Now my consoles are glorified media players.
Steam is garbage
My frustrations w/ Sony did indeed push me to build a pc last year, so I hear ya.
This is the way. PC is where it's at!
At least Xbox are in a good place from the Publishing side of things. Even if you don't want to play on one, they've got plenty for you
Im not worried about Bluepoint or Bend Studio.
Im worried about Media Molecule and Team Asobi...
I'm starting to wonder if Media Molecule has been working on a live service this whole time.
I be very worried about Bend studio I will not be surprised if Sony closes the studio before green lighting any new project from them.
@@sanekibeko at this point i'm starting to think that every studio sony owns were doing a live service game.
I’d be worried about Bend and Bluepoint personally. Both are pretty small teams compared to a Naughty Dog or Insomnaic. It’d be very much in current Sony’s leadership pattern to close the studios entirely instead of greenlighting another project form them that won’t release for 3-5 years.
@@NoonDragoonagree . I’d bet anything that BluePoint has lost some key talent after being made to do support studio efforts & a live service title. We know Bend lost two of its top dogs when DaysGone2 was refused by Herman. Consumers are becoming more picky with spending & dev costs/productionTime has exploded
Hopefully this, alongside Concord, is the beginning of the end of Sony's live service push. They've mismanaged their studios so badly because of it.
Herman said they're still gonna do live service games
I’m furious as well that Bend studio and Bluepoint were working on live service games, wtf was Sony thinking?!
MoneyMoneyMoneyMoneyMoney
I absolutely loved Demons Souls Remake, so I’m pretty heartbroken that we will now likely not see a Blue Point game for 4-5 years because of this.
What a bafflingly stupid decision.
Furious, I'm mildly peeved
They weren't thinking. Root of the problem.
Sony needs to understand they succeed because of single player games. If live service even marginally affects their single player games people might move to another platform.
So...We're just ready to finally say that this is PlayStation's Wii U moment, right? This is legit the worst state they've ever been in, I'd argue it's worse than launch PS3 era. I'm done pretending this is comparable to older gens for Sony. I'm sure they're cleaning up like Nintendo did with the Switch, but the generation is half over. The PS5's legacy doesn't look too great if you ask me.
Sony forgot who they were. People buy into the PlayStation mostly because of the quality of first party studios and games. They've developed an incredibly deep stable of IP's that people have some very strong, emotional attachments to. To try to leverage those to flip a quick Buck using live service was a huge misstep.
I think the real issue with Sony and it's live service endeavors has actually been Herman Hulst. Hulst was the head of PlayStation Studios and the one green lightning these games. He also seems to have this obsession with putting a lot of resources into various Horizon projects while he ignores other IP. IMO he needs to go
Hulst is also the one who wouldn't allow anyone to criticize Concord as it was being developed. Maybe if he allowed some criticism, they would've changed those horrible character designs.
@@G360LIVE But muh Sony Star Wars.
Agreed
Just think Bluepoint could have been working on a Bloodborne remaster instead of a live service game.
Lmao.
I'm pretty sure there won't be a Bloodborne remaster/remake without Miyazaki involvement. That was a passion project, and Miyazaki is really busy with Elden Ring IP, and who knows what.
@GFBunnyHopER maybe. No idea 🤷
"Ah, you want a Bloodborne live service game then? We hear you!" 🤑
The chalice dungeons that goes forever. Chalices and OP gems in store now.
The only people who didn't see this coming was the greedy corporate big wigs and any investors that kept investing.
Sly reboot would even make me buy a whole console for the game.
You and how many more?
@@nuno3887 about 12 more. most people grow out of old IPs (except for nintendo IPs)
@@nuno3887don't underestimate furrys
Fairgames has zero chance of not flopping.
Neither has marathon
What it comes down to is Sony mismanagement. Even if Bluepoint pitched a idea they can still say no😂😂😂
The market for live service games is so saturated, and the time investment discourages dropping them and starting another one.
Days Gone from Bend Studio was awesome
It’s a shame that Live Service game couldn’t have been an online-enabled (strand system?) Days Gone 2. Maybe they wanted to do something else, but there’s more they could do with that IP.
This is so stupid Sony didn't greenlit Days Gone 2...but a live service from the same studio it's fine 🤦♂
So much better when you go in thinking it was meh because of the original launch coverage.
valve and nintendo does nothing and keeps winning, what is this strategy called?
I believe it's called having a good, player-friendly platform and making good games. But who am I kidding, those words are an alien language to the Playstation and Xbox brands.
This statement makes no sense, Valve and Nintendo both give experiences way better than Live Service garbage. So no, it's not nothing. They win for many reasons.
They are doing a lot though. Valve is a live service expert and Nintendo has many third party partners.
Neutral Jing. Wait and listen.
Well, Nintendo ontinues to make great exclusives in a range of genres. They don’t always hit, as the Wii U shows, but when they also nail the hardware like the switch (convenient, cheap, handheld console hybrid )that was enough to draw Customers.
I’m not even sure what Sony is doing releasing their exclusives on PC. They get short term profit but in the long run it might well hurt. The only things keeping me on console are the physical copies, not having to fiddle with settings to optimise, and relatively cheap hardware. Except now you have an overpriced pro console.
Sony keeps taking away these advantages, one by one, so I may not get the PS6 and just stick with PC and Switch 2.
Valve has good service with steam, and continues to offer a very consumer friendly platform. It has good deals much better than console ones. They made good hardware with the steam deck.
Both companies do a lot, actually, to deserve their success.
This entire generation has felt like a slap to the face by Sony. Buying the PS5 has yielded nothing special, no special moments aside from a handful of games, less than 10 id argue. Nothing has utilized the dualsense or the SSD loading aside from those games in any meaningful way. The upgrade from ps4 to ps5 has definitely lead to buyers remorse.
Scope seems like a bigger issue than anything. Look how many games Nintendo just sits on. Maybe they need to pull back a little and put out fun, not fidelity.
It really makes you wonder how much money successful live service games must make to drive this level of obsession from triple-a studios towards them, despite losing 100’s of millions of dollars the majority of the time.
They can make immense amounts of money. Fortnite reportedly generated $5.5 billion in revenue last year.
@@VitalVampyrJeeze, high risk, higher reward I suppose. Just wish it served the customer at the same time.
i feel like theyre forging ahead with this what looks to be unsustainable path and completely ignoring the obvious answer
make smaller projects. stop spending 8 years making games. because the time and money you're putting into them doesnt look like its paying off.
Exactly. Split the money with smaller studios so they can put out some dope innovative stuff.
Studios: We can't make a good game because we don't know what you want.
Gamers: Please no more live service games
Studios: Ok but what about this one?
Think its more big publishers only want live service so they are very unlikely to fund anything else the Studios present
Wow this is shocking. I am definitely shocked. No one could have foreseen this. How did this even happened? Scientists need to be on top of this.
Jim rayan's galaxy brain
and Herman Hurst's stupidity with continuing it.
The door's open for Fair Games.
*Slams door shut. Well I just handled that problem.
i HOPE Playstation finally understands that they need to focus on single-player, story driven games but expanding the different genres and perspectives of stories
Considering that Bluepoint was working on a live service God of War game, and now since it's canceled, maybe now they can do a PS5 re-release of God of War (2018) and/or a remake/remaster of the classic God of War games.
As for 'Bend' they could work with Naughty Dog and do a PS5 version of Uncharted 1 2 3 and Golden Abyss.
Just a thought....
I Don want to play live service games. I play games to escape people.
NO ONE is asking the GOW devs to make a live service online game.
They instead want either a remake of GOW 1/ 2 or GOW 6
Jason Schrier already reported a year ago that Twisted Metal wasn’t cancelled because it was never in development.. it was pitched but never greenlit
Playstation 5, over 60 million consoles sold, Astrobot only sold 1.5 million, that's not a good look. They see the writing on the wall. Spider-Man 2 costing over 300 million is just absolutely insane.
It's crazy how AAA game companies just ignore the market for smaller games, especially now with the constant flopping of live service games.
It's a lot like how many movie studios keep trying to turn everything into blockbusters when it's quite possible to turn a solid profit by making smaller films which make a lot of money in comparison to their budgets.
God bless and glad to see you again!
Many companies could easily make a live service first if they prioritized the gameplay/content over money
The fact they were hiring people to find the best ways to get money from people is very depressing to see as gamers want to play GAMES first
(And yes while studios would consider making live service games I’m sure they aren’t a fan of the monetization methods forced into the game eventually)
Everything being a live-service only makes sense if you assume there exist an unlimited number of players, with unlimited amounts of time and unlimited amounts of money; neither of those 3 things are real in this limited, dying world of ours.
It was a foolish endeavor from the very beginning.
One Fortnite could theoretically cover 50 GaaS failures and cancellations. Do I think they’ll get their Fortnite? No. Do I want them to? No, that’s not the kind of slop I buy a PlayStation for. But I do think it’s crucial to keep in mind. Otherwise everyone who drills for oil or pans for gold is also having their plans backfire simply because they haven’t found any yet. You can’t rightly look at the situation that way, it’s disingenuous.
When you’ve been smelling your own farts for so long that you think you can TELL people what they should like instead of listening to them.
This is all Jim Ryan's fault and for that it gor kicked out from tha company. At this point i don't buy the "retired from the industry" argument" out from his mouth.
CEOs and upper administration don't get "fired," they are "asked to step down." In Jim's case, he was "asked to step down" and given he "retired" from the entire industry, he certainly left on a very bad note. In short, Jim was booted out of Sony and left with a bad rep that made him unhirable for any leadership role in the games industry. Anyone who has experience or knows people who have extensive experience in leadership sees this clear as day.
The Bend Studio one just irritates the crap out of me. Days Gone was flawed, yes, but it also was not a complete waste of a game. They put a lot of effort in, and the story was good. The main character was also interesting. They should have taken what they learned and doubled down. Make another single-player game and fix the mistakes of Days Gone. Instead, we have absolutely NOTHING from them for years. Just total and complete mismanagement. Good job, Sony.
The move live service games you have the more you split the player base and they are less likely to catch on.
Phoney needs to stop the pretence and bow to Microsoft and join the 3rd party game.
I wonder if when Sony cooked up this planned for 85 live service games if anyone at the table pointed out that people only have so many hours in a day
Astro and Robocop, amongst other small single player games that have over performed, coupled with obvious vocal backlash to live service has made it clear people have had enough. You can't just create a successful live service game, its largely organic. Start with a good multiplayer attached to a single player game
Fans continue to scream for anything with Bloodborne and Sony just wastes time and money trying to chase the live service bag. That literally is a perfect project for Bluepoint.
Hey John, I have a question for CotD or for the SpawnCast:
Why ARE games taking longer and longer to make? Is it because they are becoming bigger (are they though?), is it cause graphics require more time to make now? Is it the over-use crutch of cinematics? Is the animation style too taxing?
I presume if games are taking longer, there's a reason for it for why it was quicker before but not now. And, the idea of "reason" is the idea of "If X then Y happens", where Y is "games take longer to make". My question is. . . what even is X in this case and can we just backtrack and prevent Y by just stop doing X?
Things are supposed to be MORE efficient as time goes on, not less. So clearly we must have made a wrong turn somewhere. . . right? Cause as it stands, games cost too much to make and they are just not putting enough games out. These all sounds like systematic issues behind the fundamental practices of how all major publishers are managing their studios.
And for the record. I EXCUSIVELY blame uncharted. I feel like that franchise spearheaded this direction in the worst way possible. I'm not saying it's a bad franchise. I'm saying the greater impact it had on the direction the industry took was a negative one.
Sony had a winning hand with Helldivers and they messed it up with forced Sony log in on PC. If they want live service to work, multi release and no Sony log in on other markets.
People seem to be forgetting what led to the live service push in the first place. Their budgets for the big budget blockbusters you all love are unsustainable. Canceling all these projects doesn't solve the original problem. I wonder if there will be pushback when we get the inevitable, everything is a "Playstation" marketing push in 6 months.
Actually games like fortnite & roblox is why
They ain’t going third party. Microsoft can afford to do that, but Sony can’t. It’s a major part of their business and they actually value their brand. And making live service games ain’t the way. Cutting down the budgets and limiting the scope of their games is the best course of action. We don’t need 50 hour games where you can see a character sweating and every strand of hair on their forearm. They just got to focus on what matters.
@OtakuUnderground92 When has a Sony big budget game ever hit 50 hours. I'm pretty sure that's very rare. They backed themselves into a corner with the "blockbuster" tag, and now everyone is expecting that. But the Playstation fanbase doesn't buy enough games to justify the budget. You don't have to take it personally. It's just business. Market forces playing out. You can talk about valuing the brand all you want, that doesn't pay the bills. And Sony is moving like a man who has bills to pay. Which is fine, but the days of PS4 style blockbusters are done. You either sell your games on more platforms or you make cheaper games. You can not have it both ways. But watching them try sure is entertaining.
The only bad part of this is we have to wait till the ps6 to see these studios actually release anything, if they don’t get shutdown that is
It’s still crazy the amount of people saying it’s smart for Sony to go hard on live service. 1 for 12 probably lost a ton of money. Lack of single player games which drives people to your hardware. And seeming all we will get is more horizon 😢
I feels like some money laundering happening on the background. Just dump shit load of billion money into studio, pretending they are doing something, take out the money and close the studio. Clean money.
There is no way , executives are okay with losing billion of money before even they announce a product repeatedly.
the entire "live service" idea is a fundamentally flawed concept that is doomed to failure'
Fortnite would disagree
This got be the reason why Jim Ryan retired.
I feel so conflicted. On the one hand, I get why these companies are chasing the delicious profits of a “Live service” game. If you hit big with those, you are ROLLING in money. On the other hand, as someone who never touches those kinds of games and I keep seeing them fail over and over again, I feel like these companies might be better off, you know, developing LESS Live service games so they, I don’t know, don’t put themselves out of business spending money on games that result in zero returns.
In regards to Sony, though, they have been in such a rout I’m really not surprised they are going so hard at this.
Live service games are a cancer in the industry. Look at what it’s done to Rockstar games. Studios gambled on those titles wanting to be the Fortnite while tying up great studios for years on titles that they’re not passionate about. Can’t wait to see this trend go away.
With the success of of Marvel Rivals, I wouldn't count on that at all.
And this is why Nintendo is winning and will continue to make records because of their mindset 🧠
I think after Concord, Sony is gonna lessen on this live service crap
If they go back to just single narrative experiences, they will have to push for another price increase. They have said already game debelopment is getting expensive and GAAS was their answer. If that doesnt work, its gonna be splicing 1 game into several titles for a staggard release, or price increases yet again.
Sony's plans were stupid, and people that pushed the company into a dead-end should make accountable.
It's funny how media ain't even quarter as noisy about Sony's PlayStation studio closures, layoffs and 6-7 projects cancelled as they were about Xbox.
I think this is a great opportunity to get into retro gaming. Let's see if I can find an old SNES somewhere....
At the very least, it cannot be more expensive than the new stuff....
Sony gets hit with the Yu-Gi-Oh references: mirror force.
Seeing Live Service games die before they even come to life. Don't know how to feel about that one.
Whatever happened to the game little devil inside?
I don’t understand why Sony is continuing down this path with live service games, when it’s not what anyone wants.
What annoys me the most is Sony bought a lot of these studios to secure talent, that talent for one reason or another works on a GaaS (live service) game and internally it gets cancelled, THEN they shut that studio down undermining the whole point of the studio purchase.
With Bend and Bluepoint it’s different, they are getting new projects to work on but where are the folks who made Concord?
Say what you will about whether Concord was fun, but I’ll defend how well polished mechanically the game was and I find it a damn shame those devs weren’t given another go at a single player experience before getting sacked.
Sony should get their shit together and release Knack III already.
I feel like Bend Studio and Bluepoint will be support studios for Santa Monica and Naughty Dog for the time being. After that, I would like to see them begin working on single-player games that are smaller in scope and take less time to make like Astro Bot.
Playstation has been ran by fools for almost a decade
Someday they will make a documentary about jim ryan. I stillndont get how sony fanboy keep praising him.
I don't understand why if Sony wants a live service game they don't just brong back an IP they already have. Is love to see a new Warhawk, Socom, Resistance or even Killzone
that's two first party studios that will completely miss the ps5 gen because of live services
their 1 player game IP's could make more money because they will actually sell.
very few of any live service or MMO can survive if you can't compete with the top guys good luck.
If they want "Live-service" game to succeed on PS consoles, they need to allow the development process to have early access on the console, in order to shape the product. Instead of releasing games that have no one interested in them. Shape your online games with your players.
I wonder how or will this will affect Sony in the long run from consumers side. From my understanding PS5 is selling similar to the PS4 so so far it hasn't hit Sony on outside only from the wasted time and money they spent on the inside.
I know ppl are tired of remasters but an inFamous series remaster would be amazing
Good screw sony and their delayed pc releases
The situation with Days Gone is so unfortunate because I did enjoy the game and it was a worthy debut of what could’ve been a great IP.
12 games cancelled but ZERO movies and tv shows are cancelled this shows you where sonys mind set is at.
not the same company
My ps5 is the family blu ray player and i play madden and college football on it, thats pretty much it now.
They need only 1 live service success to recoup whatever loses they’ve been accruing, and all those jobs and companies are losses they are willing to take.
$ony are in complete free fall.
There’s no games and the games they are releasing are meh.
I wouldn't have minded a Division clone from them as I enjoyed those games, but it's understandable there's certain expectations from Sony's games. I just wish we could move away from the movie formula a bit more, bring back more actual fun into the mix. Not saying to kill it entirely as there is some quality there, but it's just gotten too much. Astrobot was a great step towards that, but for the love of everything we need more FUN games.
A majority of playstation's first party studios are now way behind schedule in terms of game releases. Naughty dog wasted 3+ years working on TLOU online, Insomniac wasted time working on Spiderman the great web, Bluepoint wasted 3 years working on a GOW live service, bend have wasted 4+ years working on a live service, Guerilla are currently working on a live service Horizon game.
This has essentially ruined playstation's first party output for the entire generation because a majority of their studios have wasted half the generation working on doomed live service projects, and now won't have a new game ready for 3-4 years, meanwhile there's only about 3 years left for this console generation.
Sony live service is backfiring be ready when Sony increases either PS Plus or PlayStation games to $80 or $100 dollars while Gabe pass is still profitable for indie developers as well 3rd party publishers & free to play like marvel rivals Fortnite & many others are staying at the top charts of playing games.