37:00 So yeah, Arsenal Gear just smashed though a massive chunk of the Manhatten Financial District. This game was just days away from going gold when 9/11 happened, and the devs rightfully realised that showing the destruction of New York in the cutscenes that they'd made was *not* going to go down well in the US. It was suddenly waaaaay Too Soon, and it was too late to rewrite the end of the story, so they had to settle for cutting those scenes entirely. Looking back, it's a little jarring.
Scene at 1:03:08 was also supposed to have Raiden cutting down the US flag which would fall on Solidus. And also World Trade Centre towers visible in some shots. Big shame key cinematic moments had to be cut.
@@dalmaskadeadtrash3592the US flag scene would've made such an iconic shot. Maybe if they remake 2 like they doing 3 they can include the cut parts since its been 2 decades from the attack
Also the tanker section was supposed to be on an aircraft carrier in the middle east, but due to the political tensions of the time they scrapped that setting as well.
The ending of the game got drastically changed due to 9/11, like arsenal was supposed to crash straight into manhattan. There’s still files and scenes available of the crash site online and in game
so, a few extras if you're curious Wellons :) - MGS2 came out in 2001... the same year as the 9/11 terror attacks. a lot of material and the end of the game was edited out and cut for obvious reasons, so there's why the bridge wasn't destroyed by Arsenal - MGS2 was notoriously rushed in development, due to Kojima wanting to get the game out in 2001. it's partially down to the Chinese new year calendar, 2001 was the year of the snake, and it's also down to Kojima's unhealthy movie obsession XD 2001 is an obvious reference to the movie 2001 A Space Odyssey, a movie about (among many other things) a mad AI and the course of human evolution. it's why the ending two hours of the game are so condensed with plot twists, and why the CODEC system was leaned on so heavily for conversations, to save time animating etc etc ... and i now cannot wait for you to get to Metal Gear Rising Revengance at the end of this multi game marathon XDXDXD gonna be fun
This ending is peak Metal Gear Solidus: Jack, I've been playing you this whole time, here's what's been going on Ocelot: Ah but you see we've been playing you the whole time Solidus, you did everything according to the Patriots plans. Here's what actually going on Liquid: Bafoons, all of you, absolute idiots. Here's what's REALLY going on GW: Raiden, you're a subspecies and an easy pawn, kill Solidus for us. Absolute fucking peak I love this god damn game
"I'll decide for myself what to believe and what to pass on!" "But is that even your own idea?" "Or something Snake told you?" Absolutely visceral dismemberment in 3 sentences
Jumping to this episode with only a vague knowledge of the metal gear series is a fever dream. And it’s even funnier how genuinely invested Welonz seems to be about the plot. I need to binge the entire series lol
Please do, and maybe even play some of the entries yourself to experience the story. Its a great ride and each of the mainline games is ahead of its time.
While MGS1's main theme was "gene" (going into how much our biological heritage dictates our fate), MGS2's main theme is "meme", the non-biologic/genetic information passed between generations, going into how that information can be manipulated, especially in the digital age. The answer in MGS1 was that we can still influence our fate with the right attitude, which is why Snake (the inferior but determined clone) managed to beat Liquid (the superior but resigned clone). In MGS2, the answer is to do our best to leave a good legacy behind just as Snake says in his ending speech. Easter eggs in this episode from the top of my head: -On the hardest difficulty, you have to fight every single Ray in Arsenal. I think it's 24 or something. -You can spot Vamp in the ending cutscene.
Thank you for entertaining playthrough! If you were wondering what happened to Vamp, In the final scene between Raiden and Rose, you can notice him watching them from the background (around 1:09:41, he stands next to the car). Yeah, the guy is still alive and kicking, but at least it seems he grew to respect Raiden enough to not spoil his happy moment.
Snake: Raiden, disregard what I just told you. The most important thing for you to do now is enjoy a mouth-watering Egg McMuffin Sandwich from the new All-Day Breakfast Menu at McDonald's. All of your favourite McDonald's breakfast items, now available all day at participating McDonald's restaurants. And Raiden, always remember; I'm loving it.
I think you should continue with MGS3, yes. The remake is SUPPOSED to come out soon, but there's no guarantee. I think it's better to continue while you have all the info fresh in your brain so you can still catch small references, like you've managed to do in this playthrough.
@@TheTrueDeadFingers For what it's worth, Konami *seems* to be trying to make this remake as amazing as possible. ...Maybe they've finally gotten the memo after all these years and have decided that now's the time to start rebuilding the community's trust?
While it's true that misinformation and even fake news have always been a thing, MGS2 really nailed how bad it would get and yeah it's harder every day because of that, and you're right, even Snake commented on it "lack of choices this time" while you did carried out what the Patriots wanted, from this point is up to Jack to decide and throwing the dog tags away is a metaphor for him getting rid of the "control" of the patriots and also by extension the player. MGS2 is certainly the MGS that gets discussed the most due to how relevant its themes are and meta commentary, and I feel the lesson of the plot is about as important, finding something worth passing about as important as your own genes, a gem that feels its worth playing not matter how much time passes
I think with the conversations with Snake and Rose in the middle of NYC at the end... they don't necessarily LITERALLY take place there, it's just sort of a metaphorical backdrop. You could even interpret the convos themselves as not being literal, but more like a little narrative bow tied on to the end of the story to settle where everybody's at, resolve the themes of the plot, etc. It's also the site where Arsenal Gear smashed into Capital Hall, leaving a huge swath of destruction. People aren't going to be walking around just going about their day in that vicinity for a very long time.
So here's a fun fact: Kojima initially wanted to call Metal Gear Solid 2 MGS III (or 3 without the roman numerals). The numbers were supposed to represent the 3 biggest skyscrapers in New York,until 9/11 happpened,and was probably meant to confuse the player even further,what with all the themes of lies in the digital age and ongoing fiction. But I also like to think that the S3 at the end was supposed to be a tongue in cheek allusion to the S3 plan since you,as Raiden, literally play through the entire protocol the patriots (or quite literally,the designers) set up in order to recreate Snake's previous ordeal. And just like that, Snake's first conversation with Raiden about how "VR,war as a videogame,is a form of mindcontrol created to shape the ultimate soldier" makes a whole lot more sense. Crazy how this game,on top of its many layers,still has time to talk about how we have a responsibility to use art,games included, for the right reasons...to teach and inspire the coming generations! What a masterpiece.
My favorite game of all time- very few games come close to capturing this games insanity, it makes me happy you liked it so much. Next is Snake Eater, which unfortunately Snake Eater fans have been doing what they do best and tell you it is the best one, but, 2 is a really special title on its own, you cant go wrong with Metal Gear for the most part really.
Spotted this series going just before it ended, and it's maybe my favourite playthrough of MGS2 - especially since you were really picking up on the themes about global information and data. Can't wait until the next chapter!
The clonel has do many new codec calls during the RAY fight that don't play at all during the naked section, so it was a shame that you ran into a repeat immediately and were deterred from calling him again. "There's no such thing as rhe supernatural" says the man who was working alongside Psycho Mantis in the previous game. Regarding Roses AI-ness, I believe that the last time you see the real Rose on codec is when she fades out telling Raiden that she's prégananant
Since Lisa the painful, when I finish a game or I see a game that a played in this channel, I watch the final episode to see your final thoughts on it. Big fan of your opinions an thoughts, it’s always interesting to watch them. Thank you. Thank you for sharing (and for having a very organized chanel)
@jooyichen msg3 isn't even a bad looking game tbh. It was a big step up over mgs2. She could do it either way but it's not like mgs3 is ugly they had a great style and theme
@@jooyichen She says at the end of this video (don't blame you for skipping, I usually skip the very final parts as well) that she'll play the original and then might play the remake as well to see the differences.
"We won the smaller battle by resolving this incident but in the grand scheme of things their influence hasn't been diminished at all" Much like MGS1, and it remains a common theme in the series going forwards. In the end everything is still sort of part of the same 'uneasy status-quo.'
Also, each MGS game has a 1 word theme. For MGS 1 it was GENE, for MGS 2 it was MEME. Although that word isn't said in the game, it's described in the end.
Now that we're at the end I can say it was really expecting you to put your own name in that field that eventually connected to the dog tag instead of Raiden's lol. It's similarly poetic to throw away the codename the Patriots foisted upon him though
Not so fun fact: On Extreme difficulty, you have to fight *20* Metal Gear Rays before fighting Solidus. And it's about as brutal as it sounds. Also not so fun fact: Solidus' Torture on Extreme is about *_57_* seconds on the PS2 version. That's just pure insanity.
One thing that I think makes it more manageable, is you do A LOT more damage if you can hit the Rays in the face when the "mouth" opens up. Welonz did this a few times, but perhaps didn't realize the difference in the moment. One way you can trigger this is to hit a Ray in the knee so it falls over, and it will open up its mouth for an easy hit. I never played Extreme difficulty though, so I don't know if the same rule applies exactly.
Awesome playthrough. I am gonna give you a MGS3 tip right here that is very important. ALWAYS DO CODEC CALLS DURING THE BOSS FIGHTS. Lotta story you will miss out on if you don't. Like, a lot.
Suggestion: If you're going to play MGS 3, spend some time at the beginning practicing the controls. You'll struggle much more in MGS 3 then you did in 1 or 2 if you arent comfortable with the controls. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Hard agree. I also think she maybe should practice her stealth, as the game doesn't have a radar and running into situations blindly makes that game especially harder
I'll probably post this again when she starts playing but the biggest tip I can give is to sneak with the d-pad not the left thumbstick, because enemies will hear you if you use the thumbstick. This is something I hope is modernised in Delta.
I don't even have anything clever to say here. So I'll just say that MGS2 is an incredible game and that I've thoroughly enjoyed this LP from beginning to end. And I look forward to seeing the continuation of the series!
the biggest piece of advice I can give for MGS2's plot and ending is, it's not intended to be taken 100% literally. if you have a feeling of unease that you can't tell what's real and what's not, that's what the game is going for. makes a direct sequel Real Hard though but you'll get there eventually
Just as the first game was a subversion of the typical action film plot, MGS2 is a subversion of typical action film sequels, which tend to recycle the premise of the original but with different elements included. A good example would be the Die Hard films, and the imitator's it spawned, and and how they would usually involve someone being thrown into a situation where they fight an armed takeover of some kind. In the case of this series such an improbable thing actually occuring twice is given an answer; as it all being a deliberate orchestration by a shadow cable who fear the information age and desire to control it. As you can imagine this wasn't as appreciated when it came out but it has gathered a lot of praise since, especially for how accurately predicted the digital age.
0:13 Fun? fact, the arena you're in is called the Rectum. I shit you not. 3:42 IIRC you could actually cut RAY/Solidus' missiles with the sword. Pretty badass and a taste of what's to come... 4:54 💀 17:41 If Welonz was Luke Skywalker, she definitely would have joined Vader. 29:39 "I'm not sure how much the arm knows about this." Not a sentence you hear everyday lol. 1:06:35 I always found this funny, it's like he's never seen a dogtag before. 1:07:05 If you look closely you can see Vamp in the back, you get an achievement/trophy for it too lol. 1:08:36 You've got people to talk to... like a therapist. (It's cool, I'm legally allowed to make that joke) 1:22:06 Analog lol 1:23:27 We'll see you you in another place, in another time: 1964!
I’m absolutely flashed about the content. This came out 2001. 2 years prior my family got our first PC with internet access. I first heard about AI in like 2010 from a math teacher. Insane content right there imo. Even almost a quarter century later still relevant.
I've really appreciated seeing Welonz play through MGS2 she really picked up on most of what kojima was putting down (not surprising d: ) had lots of fun seeing your reactions to the weirdness!
I fucking love Fortune. Despite all Ocelots claims that the only thing that exists is systems, technology and empirical data, he was stopped by something he couldn't predict. Magic. You can't be controlled by systems. We can't digitize the soul or will or bravery. They can never take that away from you.
@@ApathyParabellum Glad to see people remembering James Howell's work, any MGS fan will enjoy 2nd game much more after reading it. Game environment Raiden goes through being a physical representation of his mental & emotional state has to be the most amazing narrative tool I ever saw in any game.
My vote, however relevant it might be, is to play the OG MGS3. It'll feel more like a sequel to MGS2, while the remake will feel more like a sequel to MGSV.
In regards to Rose and Raiden's relationship despite the arguing? Remember, Rose said she reinvented herself, so RAIDEN likes arguing with her. I think it really is like if you know about it...Ron and Hermiones relationship from Harry Potter. One likes to talk, the other likes to listen. The circumstances of everything is what makes their long arguments seem..odd. But There's certain calls and back and forths like the Patriots reach, or how he's showing emotion. You didn't get it but there is a call where Raiden holds a "Book" and...if you call rose, she'll tease him and he'll get grumpy at her but she'll offer to give him "something" to work with..and he'll get excited..with her going " Ah ah ah, not so fast..be patient." Change of topic but can we just go over how much of a badass Jack is? In an entire day from dusk to nightfall into the early morning this man Fought an elite mercenary group, anti terrorists turn terrorists with supernatural abilities, Cannonically 25 Metal gear RAYS and fought and beat THE STRONGEST clone of a legendary soldier. With the sleep from a previous night, the two times he was knocked out as previous rest. S3 plan might have been for that...but they REALLY just made something, someone like that...and CAN and is having a kid.
Having seen the trailers for it, the MGS3 remake coming out this year is not making any changes to the story. It is purely a graphical upgrade and is faithful on a shot-for-shot basis to the original game's cutscenes and script. This is not going to be a case like the Resident Evil remakes where there are vast differences between the original and new releases. So if you were waiting for the remake because you're expecting new story stuff, it's not happening.
Yeah.. You were wondering why things seemed so uncanny and similar to the 1st game? All part of the Patriots plans. So happy you did enjoy this even though it for sure is the craziest one to wrap your head around. I think you'll love MGS3 though!
The whole information issue's a really interesting paradox, the more there is out there the more people feel the need to filter it. Most don't have the time or energy to engage with it all, and those context bubbles end up being a comfort and a way to actually make sense of things and develop trust That's even more true now generative AI is a thing - now it's possible to generate huge amounts of plausible garbage at incredible speed, and the amount of stuff out there actually produced by a human could quickly become a minority. You've got a generation of kids growing up asking AIs for info because search engines are becoming useless, and people are resorting to just searching reddit because it's the last place they can reliably get that human context (and not for long the way things are going there). It's gonna be interesting seeing how humanity deals with that shift, and tries to preserve something real for the future
You'll notice that as he's falling to his death, Solidus moves his lips. For years fans debated whether he was saying anything. Until, by replacing his model with Solid Snake's it showed that it was the talking animation. His last words were cut just before production ended so they remained a mystery. Until earlier this year when Konami production documents were released revealing that the original cut line was "We have been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty"
Stealing this comment from another video but to sum up that conversation on Arsenal: Solidus: "This is what's going on..." Fortune: "Actually, THIS is what's going on..." Solidus: "Hah! THIS is what's going in actually..." Ocelot: "HAH! THIS is actually what's going on..." Ocelot's f**king ARM: "You fools! THIS is what's going on..." The Patriots themselves: "Absolute tools. THIS is what's really going on." But yeah the end of MGS2 is really interesting given how things are now and has really interesting themes. Looking forward to seeing more of the series!
In my high school us teachers ask that homework is written by hand, we hope that even if they copy at least Some of the information stays with them, hopefully
So that was Metal Gear 2. The tag line should be "Wait, so was ANYBODY telling the truth?" All my jokes up to this point were references to "Metal Gear Abridged" by LordQuadros. Any fan of Metal Gear should give it a watch. It's old but fun. Can't wait for the next one. It'll be...............a "thrill"
Ocelot suffers from a bad case of "Chronic Backstabbing Disorder", in that he's the original case that proved its existence. Also, Solidus is a former President who encouraged a revolt in the image of the Founding Fathers by people who are nothing like them. Eerie. At least Solidus had an actual cause he belived in. As for the Patriots, the thing about them is they weren't meant to be a literal entity, but a metaphor for the Military Industrial Complex emerged following the second world war, and while later games managed to explain them to a degree, there was a bit of a X-Files "Cartwright Curse" about them for a while since Kojima didn't actually have a plan for them beyond their role in this story.
I was only 13 or so when this game originally released, and so much of it went straight over my head but I still adored it. Looking back 23 years on, it’s still wild to me how much the ending resonates to the day. I know that you’re insanely busy, but there’s some fantastic videos deconstructing the ending and I can’t recommend watching one enough if you’re curious 🙏 MGS2 is my favourite entry and it was a blast to see you experience it for the first time 🥲 thanks again for another great play thru Welonz, looking forward to your adventures in MGS3 🫡
As a kid I was obsessed with the sword fight with Solidus. I reloaded my most recent save and replayed it just to get to that fight every time also died on purpose a bunch when I got Solidus near death just so I could fight again.
To me, this is one of the best endings. Just cause the Kojima-core of batshit craziness starts here. And how much it can make sense in a believable real-life setting. But soon, we're gonna see Welonz experience the GOAT of the series: MGS3
Also, the Snake Tales are non-canonical stories that allow you to play as Snake in the Big Shell without the Radar. They're much tougher than the main game, but it's still interesting.
3:38 - Welonz has said a lot of things that I agree with over the years, but THIS is Top-Ten material. 57:10 - "Colonel! We failed to avoid falling!" 1:14:51 - Yeah, I'm still on X-formerly-Twitter too.
1:21:25 #Otacon: "But.. they're already dead. All Twelve of them." #Snake: "When did it happen?" #Otacon: "About a hundred years ago." #ME: the "Philosopher's stone"... 😱
About letting patriot AI "to create context". They're objectively the most capable beings, but the problem lies in the method itself. They want to get rid of the most important part of our evolution as a collective AND individuals - human mistakes. There's no moving forward without them.
Loved the playthrough! While MGS2 is not my favorite of the series, I have a lot of respect for it. Unfortunately my favorite mainline game in the series is MGS4 which is locked to PS3 or emulation for now. Hopefully, the second part of the collection releases it for the masses.
On Raiden killing Solidus.. can you even call Solidus his "dad" or "godfather"? I wouldn't. I wouldn't call a man who murdered a child's actual parents and took him in just to make him a child solider his "parental figure" of any sort.. Making the only difficult decision in the final fight, like you brought up, is following what the Patriots want of him. Not any relation to Solidus himself IMO
Though Raiden did probably respect and even inherit Solidus’ will for freedom. When he says “they taught me some good things too” the camera is on Solidus’ corpse and Snake says we inherited freedom from those who fought for it, might imply that Solidus left a stronger legacy than we thought
Lmao your reaction at 53:00. Yeah it is a lot, I have a soft spot for this one because I played it as a kid alongside Snake Eater. MGS is a special breed of game that I do think get better over time albeit having like 2 hours worth of cutscenes at the end
So a fun fact that I don't think ever gets explained in the game: The reason why the Patriots are sometimes referred to as the La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo is because of the game originally being in Japanese. It's a phrase that cannot exist in Japanese. It's a way to talk about them "outside" of the system. I've probably explained it poorly but it's been years for me
Great series, looking forward to you playing MGS 3. Not sure how you're going to play MGS 4 unless it comes out in the master collection part 2 which is a shame as it caps off the main series (more or less).
@@Jigsawn2 I believe so. As far as I know, the only legal way to play it is to buy a PS3 and a physical copy of the game. The ps4 and ps5 can't play ps3 games from the disc and MGS4 isnt available through streaming on PS plus or PC.
That's very unlikely, it is completely locked in PS3 by copyrights, sponsorships and all the included brands Kojima made deals with specifically for this game. I cannot even imagine how many years and legal paperwork it would take someone to move it onto different platform. It can be emulated on PC but that's never a good choice, bugs and whatnot. PS3 will most likely be the only way for years to come.
It's just hydraulic fluid not blood coming out of the Metal Gear Rays. But I'm sure Kojima meant for it to be symbolically blood coming out of the Rays as you're "killing" them.
I'm pretty sure it is blood though. After MG RAY was stolen from the marines by Patriots it was remade to be a first step in bioengineering Metal Gears, making them part beasts part machines. Most of legs are at least partly flesh, probably made by cloning some animal cells. If you shoot them over and over again in the same spot on knee with STINGER, they will bleed more and more, even change walking animations to fit those of a wounded animal.
I think MGS2 gets a bit muddled at the end with trying to cram in too many ideas, but it's still great fun and one the most memorable games I ever played. I'm super excited to your take on the next one. It's one of the all-time greats to me.
A blast from the past, and a lot of it still holds. Pity you didn't utilize the mechanic of holding people at gunpoint, if only for the sake of "shake it" animation. Thanks for the play. Your stealth was probably the messiest I've seen =)
Ha when Solidus said about exteacting information about the Patriots from Jack i expected him to say. "Nanomachines son" Anyway what a way to end the second game. IT was such a blast. Going to see the Next one. IT will be a Thrill :D
I think you got the gist of it, even if you didn't necessarily verbalize all of it (and the game does dump a lot on you quickly as it goes on), but I would still recommend giving Superbunnyhops MGS2 Close-up a watch. Aside from being a good summary, it also provides a lot of useful context that is easily missed if you weren't around or not paying much attention to video games around the turn of the century (and it's pretty entertaining in its own right).
Game ends with over one hour of cutscenes and dialogues that go all over the place, yeeea .. it's a Kojima game alright! Agree that a lot of the subject matters and some of what he says is really interesting to think about though. But also half of it, by the way it's presented, is like a lot of instant memes, and too many easy jokes. Never forget 33:43 😂 Thanks for the playthrough, it was a lot of fun to follow! :)
37:00 So yeah, Arsenal Gear just smashed though a massive chunk of the Manhatten Financial District.
This game was just days away from going gold when 9/11 happened, and the devs rightfully realised that showing the destruction of New York in the cutscenes that they'd made was *not* going to go down well in the US. It was suddenly waaaaay Too Soon, and it was too late to rewrite the end of the story, so they had to settle for cutting those scenes entirely. Looking back, it's a little jarring.
Thanks, beat me to explaining the same thing.
Scene at 1:03:08 was also supposed to have Raiden cutting down the US flag which would fall on Solidus. And also World Trade Centre towers visible in some shots. Big shame key cinematic moments had to be cut.
@@dalmaskadeadtrash3592the US flag scene would've made such an iconic shot. Maybe if they remake 2 like they doing 3 they can include the cut parts since its been 2 decades from the attack
@@g2.a6 It will be remade if we won't let future generations forget!
Also the tanker section was supposed to be on an aircraft carrier in the middle east, but due to the political tensions of the time they scrapped that setting as well.
"Everything you did was actually all part of MY plan!" - Almost every character in the game at some point during this episode
"Is this a JoJo reference?"
@@RothSchatten Who's that?
The ending of the game got drastically changed due to 9/11, like arsenal was supposed to crash straight into manhattan. There’s still files and scenes available of the crash site online and in game
The Codec Call from the Patriots AI is the definition of, “Did I play the game, or did the game play me?”
Mater "Wendy" Welonz: The game played me like a damn fiddle!
😂
Or has it...
so, a few extras if you're curious Wellons :)
- MGS2 came out in 2001... the same year as the 9/11 terror attacks. a lot of material and the end of the game was edited out and cut for obvious reasons, so there's why the bridge wasn't destroyed by Arsenal
- MGS2 was notoriously rushed in development, due to Kojima wanting to get the game out in 2001. it's partially down to the Chinese new year calendar, 2001 was the year of the snake, and it's also down to Kojima's unhealthy movie obsession XD 2001 is an obvious reference to the movie 2001 A Space Odyssey, a movie about (among many other things) a mad AI and the course of human evolution. it's why the ending two hours of the game are so condensed with plot twists, and why the CODEC system was leaned on so heavily for conversations, to save time animating etc etc
... and i now cannot wait for you to get to Metal Gear Rising Revengance at the end of this multi game marathon XDXDXD gonna be fun
To summarize Raidens conversation with Snake at the end. Stop worrying about it and go touch some grass.
Beautiful.
This ending is peak Metal Gear
Solidus: Jack, I've been playing you this whole time, here's what's been going on
Ocelot: Ah but you see we've been playing you the whole time Solidus, you did everything according to the Patriots plans. Here's what actually going on
Liquid: Bafoons, all of you, absolute idiots. Here's what's REALLY going on
GW: Raiden, you're a subspecies and an easy pawn, kill Solidus for us.
Absolute fucking peak I love this god damn game
I can't wait for 3 and 4, when Ocelot says "Its quintuple-crossing time" and then quintuple-crosses all over the place.
@@Coconut-219 Don't kink shame, obviously Ocelot has a thing for this
The game has a twist or a change of power dynamics in every cutscene from beginning (the Russians killing the Marines) to end
"I'll decide for myself what to believe and what to pass on!"
"But is that even your own idea?"
"Or something Snake told you?"
Absolutely visceral dismemberment in 3 sentences
Hmmm doesn't that reinforce the idea of humans passing ideals on to the newer generation though?
@@Moofmoof In actuality it is but in game apparently Raiden and GW didn't see it that way
Jumping to this episode with only a vague knowledge of the metal gear series is a fever dream. And it’s even funnier how genuinely invested Welonz seems to be about the plot. I need to binge the entire series lol
Please do, and maybe even play some of the entries yourself to experience the story.
Its a great ride and each of the mainline games is ahead of its time.
the master collection is on steam! i highly recommend them
You're missing out, it's an incredible series that is highly underrated.
While MGS1's main theme was "gene" (going into how much our biological heritage dictates our fate), MGS2's main theme is "meme", the non-biologic/genetic information passed between generations, going into how that information can be manipulated, especially in the digital age.
The answer in MGS1 was that we can still influence our fate with the right attitude, which is why Snake (the inferior but determined clone) managed to beat Liquid (the superior but resigned clone). In MGS2, the answer is to do our best to leave a good legacy behind just as Snake says in his ending speech.
Easter eggs in this episode from the top of my head:
-On the hardest difficulty, you have to fight every single Ray in Arsenal. I think it's 24 or something.
-You can spot Vamp in the ending cutscene.
Thank you for entertaining playthrough!
If you were wondering what happened to Vamp, In the final scene between Raiden and Rose, you can notice him watching them from the background (around 1:09:41, he stands next to the car). Yeah, the guy is still alive and kicking, but at least it seems he grew to respect Raiden enough to not spoil his happy moment.
This does not hold true when MGS4 comes around 😂 dude is an absolute caricature in that, well they both are
Oh wow, never knew that little easter egg, thanks!
The number of RAYs you have to defeat depends on your chosen difficulty level. On Extreme, you have to kill *twenty* of them.
on European Extreme 25 and each has to be hit like 6 times 🥲
@@dalmaskadeadtrash3592Nope, 20
Snake: Raiden, disregard what I just told you. The most important thing for you to do now is enjoy a mouth-watering Egg McMuffin Sandwich from the new All-Day Breakfast Menu at McDonald's. All of your favourite McDonald's breakfast items, now available all day at participating McDonald's restaurants. And Raiden, always remember; I'm loving it.
This game has the best memes of the series
This comment just McMurdered me
I think you should continue with MGS3, yes. The remake is SUPPOSED to come out soon, but there's no guarantee. I think it's better to continue while you have all the info fresh in your brain so you can still catch small references, like you've managed to do in this playthrough.
I wholly agree with this with the added note that I'm not willing to trust Konami until they give me a reason to do so.
@@TheTrueDeadFingers For what it's worth, Konami *seems* to be trying to make this remake as amazing as possible.
...Maybe they've finally gotten the memo after all these years and have decided that now's the time to start rebuilding the community's trust?
While it's true that misinformation and even fake news have always been a thing, MGS2 really nailed how bad it would get and yeah it's harder every day because of that, and you're right, even Snake commented on it "lack of choices this time" while you did carried out what the Patriots wanted, from this point is up to Jack to decide and throwing the dog tags away is a metaphor for him getting rid of the "control" of the patriots and also by extension the player.
MGS2 is certainly the MGS that gets discussed the most due to how relevant its themes are and meta commentary, and I feel the lesson of the plot is about as important, finding something worth passing about as important as your own genes, a gem that feels its worth playing not matter how much time passes
Kojima is a genious. He wrote this early 2000s, and even tho some of MGS2 is like a fever dream, it hits some notes pretty well. Makes you think.
Can’t wait for metal gear solid 3 master collection snake eater in the next let’s play
I think with the conversations with Snake and Rose in the middle of NYC at the end... they don't necessarily LITERALLY take place there, it's just sort of a metaphorical backdrop. You could even interpret the convos themselves as not being literal, but more like a little narrative bow tied on to the end of the story to settle where everybody's at, resolve the themes of the plot, etc. It's also the site where Arsenal Gear smashed into Capital Hall, leaving a huge swath of destruction. People aren't going to be walking around just going about their day in that vicinity for a very long time.
So here's a fun fact: Kojima initially wanted to call Metal Gear Solid 2 MGS III (or 3 without the roman numerals). The numbers were supposed to represent the 3 biggest skyscrapers in New York,until 9/11 happpened,and was probably meant to confuse the player even further,what with all the themes of lies in the digital age and ongoing fiction.
But I also like to think that the S3 at the end was supposed to be a tongue in cheek allusion to the S3 plan since you,as Raiden, literally play through the entire protocol the patriots (or quite literally,the designers) set up in order to recreate Snake's previous ordeal.
And just like that, Snake's first conversation with Raiden about how "VR,war as a videogame,is a form of mindcontrol created to shape the ultimate soldier" makes a whole lot more sense.
Crazy how this game,on top of its many layers,still has time to talk about how we have a responsibility to use art,games included, for the right reasons...to teach and inspire the coming generations!
What a masterpiece.
I love watching you play through the metal gear series, I hope you do MGS3 too because it’s definitely my favorite of the series!!
My favorite game of all time- very few games come close to capturing this games insanity, it makes me happy you liked it so much.
Next is Snake Eater, which unfortunately Snake Eater fans have been doing what they do best and tell you it is the best one, but, 2 is a really special title on its own, you cant go wrong with Metal Gear for the most part really.
“BROTHERS!”
Lekwéd!!!
BRRRROOOOOTTHERRRRRRRSSS
Spotted this series going just before it ended, and it's maybe my favourite playthrough of MGS2 - especially since you were really picking up on the themes about global information and data. Can't wait until the next chapter!
The clonel has do many new codec calls during the RAY fight that don't play at all during the naked section, so it was a shame that you ran into a repeat immediately and were deterred from calling him again.
"There's no such thing as rhe supernatural" says the man who was working alongside Psycho Mantis in the previous game.
Regarding Roses AI-ness, I believe that the last time you see the real Rose on codec is when she fades out telling Raiden that she's prégananant
Since Lisa the painful, when I finish a game or I see a game that a played in this channel, I watch the final episode to see your final thoughts on it. Big fan of your opinions an thoughts, it’s always interesting to watch them. Thank you. Thank you for sharing (and for having a very organized chanel)
Same, I think Lisa was the first Let's Play by Welonz I've watched... and it's been almost 10 years now, jeez.
@@ninjatoriumnova2483I hadn’t realized how long it has been
Next up is a series darling, Metal Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater
She could wait for Delta. It'd be a massive leap in graphical improvement.
@jooyichen msg3 isn't even a bad looking game tbh. It was a big step up over mgs2. She could do it either way but it's not like mgs3 is ugly they had a great style and theme
What a thrill...
@@jooyichen She says at the end of this video (don't blame you for skipping, I usually skip the very final parts as well) that she'll play the original and then might play the remake as well to see the differences.
Thank you for the let's plays. I have never thought I would get into a series like MGS but the game, combined with your commentary, are truly amazing.
"We won the smaller battle by resolving this incident but in the grand scheme of things their influence hasn't been diminished at all"
Much like MGS1, and it remains a common theme in the series going forwards. In the end everything is still sort of part of the same 'uneasy status-quo.'
The relevancy of that AI speech gave me chills. It was one of the first videos. I got fed when I first started getting political stuff in my TH-cam.
one of otacon's codec calls while you're fighting RAY explains why it seems to bleed
Also, each MGS game has a 1 word theme. For MGS 1 it was GENE, for MGS 2 it was MEME. Although that word isn't said in the game, it's described in the end.
Kept us waiting huh?
Now that we're at the end I can say it was really expecting you to put your own name in that field that eventually connected to the dog tag instead of Raiden's lol. It's similarly poetic to throw away the codename the Patriots foisted upon him though
Not so fun fact: On Extreme difficulty, you have to fight *20* Metal Gear Rays before fighting Solidus. And it's about as brutal as it sounds.
Also not so fun fact: Solidus' Torture on Extreme is about *_57_* seconds on the PS2 version. That's just pure insanity.
IIRC, it can be made easier by leveling up Raiden's Grip gauge. Could be wrong, though.
25 on EE
57 (or whatever the max length is) only on EE too, it is lower otherwise
@@IndoorSitup Actually, you have to look at Snake in order to make it less painful.
One thing that I think makes it more manageable, is you do A LOT more damage if you can hit the Rays in the face when the "mouth" opens up. Welonz did this a few times, but perhaps didn't realize the difference in the moment. One way you can trigger this is to hit a Ray in the knee so it falls over, and it will open up its mouth for an easy hit. I never played Extreme difficulty though, so I don't know if the same rule applies exactly.
recently did my big boss run on the master collection, that fight nearly broke me.
I can’t wait for. Mgs3 snake easter in the nastier edition in the next let’s play
35:30 My thought exactly.
Awesome playthrough. I am gonna give you a MGS3 tip right here that is very important. ALWAYS DO CODEC CALLS DURING THE BOSS FIGHTS. Lotta story you will miss out on if you don't. Like, a lot.
Suggestion: If you're going to play MGS 3, spend some time at the beginning practicing the controls. You'll struggle much more in MGS 3 then you did in 1 or 2 if you arent comfortable with the controls. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Hard agree. I also think she maybe should practice her stealth, as the game doesn't have a radar and running into situations blindly makes that game especially harder
I'll probably post this again when she starts playing but the biggest tip I can give is to sneak with the d-pad not the left thumbstick, because enemies will hear you if you use the thumbstick.
This is something I hope is modernised in Delta.
I don't even have anything clever to say here. So I'll just say that MGS2 is an incredible game and that I've thoroughly enjoyed this LP from beginning to end.
And I look forward to seeing the continuation of the series!
the biggest piece of advice I can give for MGS2's plot and ending is, it's not intended to be taken 100% literally. if you have a feeling of unease that you can't tell what's real and what's not, that's what the game is going for.
makes a direct sequel Real Hard though but you'll get there eventually
FINALLY two hades in a row got me sweating for this finale thank you materwelonz for the content
Just as the first game was a subversion of the typical action film plot, MGS2 is a subversion of typical action film sequels, which tend to recycle the premise of the original but with different elements included.
A good example would be the Die Hard films, and the imitator's it spawned, and and how they would usually involve someone being thrown into a situation where they fight an armed takeover of some kind. In the case of this series such an improbable thing actually occuring twice is given an answer; as it all being a deliberate orchestration by a shadow cable who fear the information age and desire to control it.
As you can imagine this wasn't as appreciated when it came out but it has gathered a lot of praise since, especially for how accurately predicted the digital age.
0:13 Fun? fact, the arena you're in is called the Rectum. I shit you not.
3:42 IIRC you could actually cut RAY/Solidus' missiles with the sword. Pretty badass and a taste of what's to come...
4:54 💀
17:41 If Welonz was Luke Skywalker, she definitely would have joined Vader.
29:39 "I'm not sure how much the arm knows about this." Not a sentence you hear everyday lol.
1:06:35 I always found this funny, it's like he's never seen a dogtag before.
1:07:05 If you look closely you can see Vamp in the back, you get an achievement/trophy for it too lol.
1:08:36 You've got people to talk to... like a therapist. (It's cool, I'm legally allowed to make that joke)
1:22:06 Analog lol
1:23:27 We'll see you you in another place, in another time: 1964!
I’m absolutely flashed about the content. This came out 2001. 2 years prior my family got our first PC with internet access. I first heard about AI in like 2010 from a math teacher. Insane content right there imo. Even almost a quarter century later still relevant.
I've really appreciated seeing Welonz play through MGS2 she really picked up on most of what kojima was putting down (not surprising d: ) had lots of fun seeing your reactions to the weirdness!
I fucking love Fortune. Despite all Ocelots claims that the only thing that exists is systems, technology and empirical data, he was stopped by something he couldn't predict. Magic.
You can't be controlled by systems. We can't digitize the soul or will or bravery. They can never take that away from you.
For anyone interested I would recommend the driving off the map essay on MGS2. It changes everything.
Just like Psycho Mantis, she has powers unexplained by technology
@@ApathyParabellum Glad to see people remembering James Howell's work, any MGS fan will enjoy 2nd game much more after reading it. Game environment Raiden goes through being a physical representation of his mental & emotional state has to be the most amazing narrative tool I ever saw in any game.
@@blacklite911 nanomachines, son.
That is pretty poetic.
My vote, however relevant it might be, is to play the OG MGS3. It'll feel more like a sequel to MGS2, while the remake will feel more like a sequel to MGSV.
I thought this game was gonna be a lot longer. I'm surprised it only took this long.
In regards to Rose and Raiden's relationship despite the arguing?
Remember, Rose said she reinvented herself, so RAIDEN likes arguing with her.
I think it really is like if you know about it...Ron and Hermiones relationship from Harry Potter. One likes to talk, the other likes to listen. The circumstances of everything is what makes their long arguments seem..odd. But There's certain calls and back and forths like the Patriots reach, or how he's showing emotion.
You didn't get it but there is a call where Raiden holds a "Book" and...if you call rose, she'll tease him and he'll get grumpy at her but she'll offer to give him "something" to work with..and he'll get excited..with her going " Ah ah ah, not so fast..be patient."
Change of topic but can we just go over how much of a badass Jack is? In an entire day from dusk to nightfall into the early morning this man Fought an elite mercenary group, anti terrorists turn terrorists with supernatural abilities, Cannonically 25 Metal gear RAYS and fought and beat THE STRONGEST clone of a legendary soldier.
With the sleep from a previous night, the two times he was knocked out as previous rest.
S3 plan might have been for that...but they REALLY just made something, someone like that...and CAN and is having a kid.
Having seen the trailers for it, the MGS3 remake coming out this year is not making any changes to the story. It is purely a graphical upgrade and is faithful on a shot-for-shot basis to the original game's cutscenes and script. This is not going to be a case like the Resident Evil remakes where there are vast differences between the original and new releases. So if you were waiting for the remake because you're expecting new story stuff, it's not happening.
Yeah.. You were wondering why things seemed so uncanny and similar to the 1st game? All part of the Patriots plans.
So happy you did enjoy this even though it for sure is the craziest one to wrap your head around. I think you'll love MGS3 though!
Its such a meta way to make a sequel familiar enough to the 1st while also putting a "new'" spin on it. My fav thing from the game
The whole information issue's a really interesting paradox, the more there is out there the more people feel the need to filter it. Most don't have the time or energy to engage with it all, and those context bubbles end up being a comfort and a way to actually make sense of things and develop trust
That's even more true now generative AI is a thing - now it's possible to generate huge amounts of plausible garbage at incredible speed, and the amount of stuff out there actually produced by a human could quickly become a minority. You've got a generation of kids growing up asking AIs for info because search engines are becoming useless, and people are resorting to just searching reddit because it's the last place they can reliably get that human context (and not for long the way things are going there). It's gonna be interesting seeing how humanity deals with that shift, and tries to preserve something real for the future
You'll notice that as he's falling to his death, Solidus moves his lips. For years fans debated whether he was saying anything. Until, by replacing his model with Solid Snake's it showed that it was the talking animation. His last words were cut just before production ended so they remained a mystery.
Until earlier this year when Konami production documents were released revealing that the original cut line was
"We have been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty"
Legend xD
Dammit.
Stealing this comment from another video but to sum up that conversation on Arsenal:
Solidus: "This is what's going on..."
Fortune: "Actually, THIS is what's going on..."
Solidus: "Hah! THIS is what's going in actually..."
Ocelot: "HAH! THIS is actually what's going on..."
Ocelot's f**king ARM: "You fools! THIS is what's going on..."
The Patriots themselves: "Absolute tools. THIS is what's really going on."
But yeah the end of MGS2 is really interesting given how things are now and has really interesting themes. Looking forward to seeing more of the series!
In my high school us teachers ask that homework is written by hand, we hope that even if they copy at least Some of the information stays with them, hopefully
Once again, this was such an amazing series. Can't wait to see what's in the future!!
So that was Metal Gear 2. The tag line should be "Wait, so was ANYBODY telling the truth?"
All my jokes up to this point were references to "Metal Gear Abridged" by LordQuadros. Any fan of Metal Gear should give it a watch. It's old but fun.
Can't wait for the next one. It'll be...............a "thrill"
Ocelot suffers from a bad case of "Chronic Backstabbing Disorder", in that he's the original case that proved its existence.
Also, Solidus is a former President who encouraged a revolt in the image of the Founding Fathers by people who are nothing like them. Eerie. At least Solidus had an actual cause he belived in.
As for the Patriots, the thing about them is they weren't meant to be a literal entity, but a metaphor for the Military Industrial Complex emerged following the second world war, and while later games managed to explain them to a degree, there was a bit of a X-Files "Cartwright Curse" about them for a while since Kojima didn't actually have a plan for them beyond their role in this story.
Welonz is too nice to say how horrible controller aiming is, ha. We feel you.
I was only 13 or so when this game originally released, and so much of it went straight over my head but I still adored it. Looking back 23 years on, it’s still wild to me how much the ending resonates to the day. I know that you’re insanely busy, but there’s some fantastic videos deconstructing the ending and I can’t recommend watching one enough if you’re curious 🙏 MGS2 is my favourite entry and it was a blast to see you experience it for the first time 🥲 thanks again for another great play thru Welonz, looking forward to your adventures in MGS3 🫡
Solid Snake is a GENETIC clone of Big Boss. Raiden is a MEMETIC clone of Solid Snake.
I'm all for playing both the master collection and remake versions of mgs3
As a kid I was obsessed with the sword fight with Solidus. I reloaded my most recent save and replayed it just to get to that fight every time also died on purpose a bunch when I got Solidus near death just so I could fight again.
Glad it wasnt months, looked forward to this
To me, this is one of the best endings. Just cause the Kojima-core of batshit craziness starts here. And how much it can make sense in a believable real-life setting.
But soon, we're gonna see Welonz experience the GOAT of the series: MGS3
Kinda wish I would have seen her face when she figured out they just keep respawning. I absolutely hated that fight when I first played this.
This was a great series. Can't wait for MGS 3!
mybest friend and his former girlffriend argued a LOT for years. now they are married for 2 years already. These things happen.
Also, the Snake Tales are non-canonical stories that allow you to play as Snake in the Big Shell without the Radar. They're much tougher than the main game, but it's still interesting.
Yayy! I can’t wait to watch this when I get home. I was worried it would take a while due to that cooyright issue.
this aged well
3:38 - Welonz has said a lot of things that I agree with over the years, but THIS is Top-Ten material.
57:10 - "Colonel! We failed to avoid falling!"
1:14:51 - Yeah, I'm still on X-formerly-Twitter too.
Thank you Welonz for passing your memes! o7
The ending's kind of cool, except its ruined by the Liquid Arm showing up again 🤣 - What was Kojima thinking?! 😆
1:21:25 #Otacon: "But.. they're already dead. All Twelve of them." #Snake: "When did it happen?" #Otacon: "About a hundred years ago." #ME: the "Philosopher's stone"... 😱
About letting patriot AI "to create context". They're objectively the most capable beings, but the problem lies in the method itself. They want to get rid of the most important part of our evolution as a collective AND individuals - human mistakes. There's no moving forward without them.
Loved the playthrough! While MGS2 is not my favorite of the series, I have a lot of respect for it.
Unfortunately my favorite mainline game in the series is MGS4 which is locked to PS3 or emulation for now. Hopefully, the second part of the collection releases it for the masses.
kojima is such a deeply strange and interesting person. great playthrough.
On Raiden killing Solidus.. can you even call Solidus his "dad" or "godfather"? I wouldn't. I wouldn't call a man who murdered a child's actual parents and took him in just to make him a child solider his "parental figure" of any sort.. Making the only difficult decision in the final fight, like you brought up, is following what the Patriots want of him. Not any relation to Solidus himself IMO
Though Raiden did probably respect and even inherit Solidus’ will for freedom.
When he says “they taught me some good things too” the camera is on Solidus’ corpse and Snake says we inherited freedom from those who fought for it, might imply that Solidus left a stronger legacy than we thought
Lmao your reaction at 53:00. Yeah it is a lot, I have a soft spot for this one because I played it as a kid alongside Snake Eater. MGS is a special breed of game that I do think get better over time albeit having like 2 hours worth of cutscenes at the end
It really is the most profound moment in gaming history.
40:08
I love Mgs2, but Im so pumped for 3
So a fun fact that I don't think ever gets explained in the game: The reason why the Patriots are sometimes referred to as the La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo is because of the game originally being in Japanese. It's a phrase that cannot exist in Japanese. It's a way to talk about them "outside" of the system. I've probably explained it poorly but it's been years for me
Imagine a couple that *doesn't* argue xD
Rose is clingy
48:12 FISSION MAILED
Really cool let's play
I would HIGHLY suggest you play MGS3 before the Delta-remake. I won’t say more than that.
Very good, like always
You mean... pretty good 👉👉
@@AverageYTUser62 i don't know, probably, english is not my native language, thanks
@@Matheus21videooh no, your English is completely fine! “Pretty good” is just an MGS meme lol.
1:09:41 It took me YEARS to notice a certain character lurking in the background...
Great series, looking forward to you playing MGS 3. Not sure how you're going to play MGS 4 unless it comes out in the master collection part 2 which is a shame as it caps off the main series (more or less).
Wait, so the only way you can play MGS4 legally is to play on an original PS3?
@@Jigsawn2 I believe so.
As far as I know, the only legal way to play it is to buy a PS3 and a physical copy of the game. The ps4 and ps5 can't play ps3 games from the disc and MGS4 isnt available through streaming on PS plus or PC.
@@APaulingGameplay Thanks. Thats wild!
@@Jigsawn2 Tell me about it, hopefully the next master collection releases it from it's prison
That's very unlikely, it is completely locked in PS3 by copyrights, sponsorships and all the included brands Kojima made deals with specifically for this game. I cannot even imagine how many years and legal paperwork it would take someone to move it onto different platform. It can be emulated on PC but that's never a good choice, bugs and whatnot. PS3 will most likely be the only way for years to come.
It's just hydraulic fluid not blood coming out of the Metal Gear Rays. But I'm sure Kojima meant for it to be symbolically blood coming out of the Rays as you're "killing" them.
I'm pretty sure it is blood though. After MG RAY was stolen from the marines by Patriots it was remade to be a first step in bioengineering Metal Gears, making them part beasts part machines. Most of legs are at least partly flesh, probably made by cloning some animal cells. If you shoot them over and over again in the same spot on knee with STINGER, they will bleed more and more, even change walking animations to fit those of a wounded animal.
No, it’s nanopaste that repairs the RAYs’ armor, Otacon tells you that on the codec
I think MGS2 gets a bit muddled at the end with trying to cram in too many ideas, but it's still great fun and one the most memorable games I ever played. I'm super excited to your take on the next one. It's one of the all-time greats to me.
A blast from the past, and a lot of it still holds. Pity you didn't utilize the mechanic of holding people at gunpoint, if only for the sake of "shake it" animation.
Thanks for the play. Your stealth was probably the messiest I've seen =)
THE MEMES!
A DUD!
Ha when Solidus said about exteacting information about the Patriots from Jack i expected him to say.
"Nanomachines son"
Anyway what a way to end the second game. IT was such a blast. Going to see the Next one. IT will be a Thrill :D
Fission Mailed
My 12 year old self trying to understand wtf happened in the games ending😂😂
Can’t wait for mgs 3
Before you play the Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance I suggest you play and finished Metal Gear Solid 4 first.
I think you got the gist of it, even if you didn't necessarily verbalize all of it (and the game does dump a lot on you quickly as it goes on), but I would still recommend giving Superbunnyhops MGS2 Close-up a watch. Aside from being a good summary, it also provides a lot of useful context that is easily missed if you weren't around or not paying much attention to video games around the turn of the century (and it's pretty entertaining in its own right).
Game ends with over one hour of cutscenes and dialogues that go all over the place, yeeea .. it's a Kojima game alright!
Agree that a lot of the subject matters and some of what he says is really interesting to think about though. But also half of it, by the way it's presented, is like a lot of instant memes, and too many easy jokes. Never forget 33:43 😂
Thanks for the playthrough, it was a lot of fun to follow! :)
😂