I don't think the balance mod actually changes any of the penetration values anymore. If you're that spot on, and this was recently recorded, that means the devs have really done some good work in their consistent penetration tweaks on each recent patch
Interesting in that historical change if the war started later. The Gueen Elizabeths could easily have been sent out to the rest of the Empire to bolster the defences there in addition to the cruisers that were there.
Lion was actually my favourite ship for a while! The battlecruiser that is Who cares? honestly noone but I felt like writing a comment once in a while lol
Imagine if someone gave the US future knowledge that we would eventually be in the war on Britain's side and we wouldn't be able to use the Lexington 16/50s for the Iowas because bureau of ordinance messing up the turrets and Britain would eventually cancel the lion because of delays to their 16 inch gun.... Now imagine the US has the Lexington 16 inch/50s get lend/leased to Britain before the lions get cancelled.
I believe it is in metric tons the displacement is measured. I also have a question. Did you say that draught/draft in the game is both draught and freeboard in real life?
Honestly feel Lion would’ve been the weakest of all the nation ships at the time Yamato, Iowa (uhhh 1943, otherwise North Carolina is the weakest, although Lion is more modern so...), Alsace, H-39 (were named, but don’t know which would’ve been the lead ship) Sovetsky Soyuz, the unnamed Littorio successor All of which had 16 inch guns except two, Alsace and Yamato, (who made up in other ways)
There were actually three versions of Alsace that were considered, all of which used ABX turret arrangements: Design 1 (the most likely to be built): 3 x 3 15" guns. Slightly longer than the Richelieus which could barely be built by contemporary French shipyards. Design 2: 3 x 3 16" guns. Considered less likely because French 16" guns hadn't yet left the drawing board. Design 3 (the version in World of Warships) : 3 x 4 15" guns. Considered unlikely because they would be massive, too big to fit in any French ports.
All of those ships are bigger so not really a huge surprise. 5 Lions were planned for a total of 10 modern BBs in the Royal Navy (plus rebuilds) the strength there lay with numbers. Sure Yamato is stronger against one Lion but two? It's unlikely to win that. Not to mention the Russian and German offerings are of dubious quality from a design and construction perspective
@@silverhost9782 to be fair, Japan and Germany also had quite a lot of big ships in huge numbers (PlanZ, which while H-39-40 might not have been the most threatening, the latter ones would’ve, even if there were just two of each, totaling 10 modern battleships, 6 of which were Probably better than Lion...) And Japan’s stupidly large number of Yamato designs, and variants, Kai Yamato, A-140, A150, all of which could single-handedly take on a Lion To be fair, no one knew Yamato existed) Wether or not they could’ve built them before the 1950’s, is questionable France also had quite a lot, not as much as Britain, or Germany , but still a lot, and potentially many more (Richelieu designs, and variants, Alsace, and possibly others) Italy would’ve also had a few (2) modern battleships, of Lion caliber, and the Littorios USA would’ve had a few Iowas and Montana(s)
@@glauberglousger6643 It's an unfair comparison though. You're taking pre-WW2 British naval plans (replacing the Revenge and QE classes with the KGVs and Lions on a one-to-one basis) and comparing it to the (typically unrealistic) plans of the other countries. Obviously if Japan and/or Germany actually actioned those plans the British would have responded by building more, larger ships. They never did though of course so the British had no need to go any further with its plans
Nope. Lion would have been superior to the North Carolina class, South Dakota class, Alsace [15" guns], H39 class [significantly less well armoured, only 11.8" max on the belt], and certainly better than the Russian and Italian efforts.
Umm any possible to build up the Uss battleships with the new hulls that came now.. please?😏 I builded up as close i could.. but you guys do mooooore accurate build up😮
We are going to have to see these in a GB campaign at some point!!! Great work the two of you!
Imagine if this was the ship that Scharnhorst and Gneisenau ran into off Lofoten.
Hmmm now there’s a fun scenario to run
Of course, to make it fair you’ve gotta have the Scharnhorsts after they’d gotten twin 15” instead of triple 11”s!
@@danhaas9730 funny you should mention those…
Note, while 11-inch maybe small, say that to 18 of them, and then we got torpedoes
Always love these collabs, my favourite naval historian and my favourite UAD youtuber. Keep up the great work guys
The colab I didn't know I wanted but can't live without!
I enjoy these collaborations with Drac videos.
Oh and as for draught + freeboard, that in German is known as "Seitenhoehe" and can, for instance, be found in Breyer (Drach will know what I mean).
I don't think the balance mod actually changes any of the penetration values anymore. If you're that spot on, and this was recently recorded, that means the devs have really done some good work in their consistent penetration tweaks on each recent patch
Recorded on Wednesday 17th of May 2023
@@BrotherMunro I think that's all vanilla penetration, then. At this point, I think only the naval arms race mod is modifying penetration still?
1.9 ton AP round ?
Many a sailor walked the plank (below the 5.25 inch gun)
Would like to see you put this up against Bismarck.
Definitely prefer the later Designs where she has basically two Darings strapped to each side of the ship and better main guns
Interesting in that historical change if the war started later.
The Gueen Elizabeths could easily have been sent out to the rest of the Empire to bolster the defences there in addition to the cruisers that were there.
Lion was actually my favourite ship for a while!
The battlecruiser that is
Who cares? honestly noone but I felt like writing a comment once in a while lol
One of the Splendid Cats! Interesting ship 😄
Imagine if someone gave the US future knowledge that we would eventually be in the war on Britain's side and we wouldn't be able to use the Lexington 16/50s for the Iowas because bureau of ordinance messing up the turrets and Britain would eventually cancel the lion because of delays to their 16 inch gun....
Now imagine the US has the Lexington 16 inch/50s get lend/leased to Britain before the lions get cancelled.
i think by seeing the Light Lion class and FDG was the Closest
In 1942 there would also have been 1 or 2 H class
The Lion's would have been far more heavily armoured.
working with actual thickness would be simple and logical, hence unlikely
I believe it is in metric tons the displacement is measured. I also have a question. Did you say that draught/draft in the game is both draught and freeboard in real life?
The value reported in the mini plan? It used to be for sure, and I don’t think they’ve changed it.
@@BrotherMunro Thank you. When trying to create historical ships, it was always the weird one that never fitted.
Hello!
Honestly feel Lion would’ve been the weakest of all the nation ships at the time
Yamato, Iowa (uhhh 1943, otherwise North Carolina is the weakest, although Lion is more modern so...), Alsace, H-39 (were named, but don’t know which would’ve been the lead ship)
Sovetsky Soyuz, the unnamed Littorio successor
All of which had 16 inch guns except two, Alsace and Yamato, (who made up in other ways)
There were actually three versions of Alsace that were considered, all of which used ABX turret arrangements:
Design 1 (the most likely to be built): 3 x 3 15" guns. Slightly longer than the Richelieus which could barely be built by contemporary French shipyards.
Design 2: 3 x 3 16" guns. Considered less likely because French 16" guns hadn't yet left the drawing board.
Design 3 (the version in World of Warships) : 3 x 4 15" guns. Considered unlikely because they would be massive, too big to fit in any French ports.
All of those ships are bigger so not really a huge surprise. 5 Lions were planned for a total of 10 modern BBs in the Royal Navy (plus rebuilds) the strength there lay with numbers. Sure Yamato is stronger against one Lion but two? It's unlikely to win that. Not to mention the Russian and German offerings are of dubious quality from a design and construction perspective
@@silverhost9782 to be fair, Japan and Germany also had quite a lot of big ships in huge numbers
(PlanZ, which while H-39-40 might not have been the most threatening, the latter ones would’ve, even if there were just two of each, totaling 10 modern battleships, 6 of which were Probably better than Lion...)
And Japan’s stupidly large number of Yamato designs, and variants, Kai Yamato, A-140, A150, all of which could single-handedly take on a Lion
To be fair, no one knew Yamato existed)
Wether or not they could’ve built them before the 1950’s, is questionable
France also had quite a lot, not as much as Britain, or Germany , but still a lot, and potentially many more (Richelieu designs, and variants, Alsace, and possibly others)
Italy would’ve also had a few (2) modern battleships, of Lion caliber, and the Littorios
USA would’ve had a few Iowas and Montana(s)
@@glauberglousger6643 It's an unfair comparison though. You're taking pre-WW2 British naval plans (replacing the Revenge and QE classes with the KGVs and Lions on a one-to-one basis) and comparing it to the (typically unrealistic) plans of the other countries. Obviously if Japan and/or Germany actually actioned those plans the British would have responded by building more, larger ships. They never did though of course so the British had no need to go any further with its plans
Nope. Lion would have been superior to the North Carolina class, South Dakota class, Alsace [15" guns], H39 class [significantly less well armoured, only 11.8" max on the belt], and certainly better than the Russian and Italian efforts.
Umm any possible to build up the Uss battleships with the new hulls that came now.. please?😏
I builded up as close i could.. but you guys do mooooore accurate build up😮