Gelli Plate Transfers With Your Own Photos! 🎨 ❤
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ต.ค. 2023
- Master Gelli Plate Printmaking: Basic to Advanced Techniques - Art Demos & Tutorials
Struggling with your laser prints: • Gel Plate Troubles? | ...
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Video Description:
Welcome to an immersive 30-minute tutorial on creating captivating (and sometimes frustrating) art with Gelli plates image transfer monotypes with laser prints! Whether you're a beginner or seasoned artist, this video has something for you. Learn about essential supplies, laser print recommendations, photo editing tips, and all the insider tricks I've gathered over the years. Join me on this creative journey!
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* Apply Acrylic Paint: Squeeze a bit of acrylic paint onto the Gelli plate and use a brayer to create a smooth, thin layer.
* Place Your Image: Lay your laser print photograph face-down on the painted plate, pressing gently for solid contact.
* Transfer the Image: Rub the back of the photo with a brayer or fingertips, ensuring even pressure for a flawless image transfer.
* Peel and Reveal: Lift your photograph carefully to unveil the transferred image on the Gelli plate.
* Reverse Painting: Apply one or more layers of acrylic paint, allowing each to dry between applications.
* Transfer Layer: Evenly apply acrylic paint or gel medium to the plate with a brayer. Cover with Bristol Board paper, weigh it down with books, and let it dry for 20-30 minutes. 📸✨
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Special Thanks to these Artists and many more!!!
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Learn art techniques with tips and tricks to make the process go smoothly and easily.
More lessons are found below:
Jessica Russo Scherr- Fine Artist @bluelavaart
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Gelli Plate Supplies | These are the materials that I use (after lots of experimentation)
🌟Gelli Brand plate @gelliarts
🌟Amsterdam, Liquitex and Golden Paints (in that order of how much I use them)
🌟Brayer (rollie thing)
🌟Bristol 205 gr
🌟Baby Oil
🌟Laser Print
🚀 Optional Supplies 🚀
🌟Plexiglas for storage and to see underneath while reverse painting
🌟Gel Medium for thinning acrylic paint and for transfer layers
🌟Paint Brushes and Palette Knives
Have fun and experiment 💃
I bought my supplies @boesner_deutschland @boesner_frankfurt
If you have any questions, feel free to comment down below!
Thank you so much for watching, have a wonderful day and I will see you soon!
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Special Thanks to these Artists and many more!!! They have helped me so much in understanding how to do this process. Give them a follow.
Khabraal: www.tiktok.com/@khabraal?lang=en
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Amber www.tiktok.com/@princessmeatloaf
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May I just mention that you are by far one of the few who present your tutorials so honestly, using materials, understandable without lengthy chatter, but straight forward. We thank you very much and wish you a happy and peaceful life.
That is so kind of you to say. I can probably attribute it to the fact that I teach middle - High School Art. Thank you for your kind comment and I also wish you a happy and peaceful life
What have you started? Stumbled upon this video and now the gel plate is on order… this is a rabbit hole I’m looking forward to exploring!
How exciting! Enjoy the rabbit hole
I just found out about this process today and have been watching videos for hours. I cant wait to get into it myself!
Have you tried yet?
So tonight was my first attempt at anything, total newbie, tried to do an image transfer with no luck.😢Can’t figure out why unless my paint is drying too quick on the plate? Using Amsterdam Standard acrylic.😢😢Or my laser print isn’t good? Guess I’ll keep trying. She makes it look so easy!
😂😂😂
Hahaha. Same here!
I have a Brother colour laser. I set the printer driver to THICKER paper even though I'm using a 32lb copier paper. The THICKER paper setting causes the paper to move more slowly through the process. You get more toner deposited and you get a longer fuse time. I very rarely have image transfer failures with even the finest lines on an image.
Love the addition of painting the on the gel plate itself -- stunning results and a very well constructed video -- thank you!
Excellent tips and suggestions. Thank you!!!
Does the "thicker paper" option appear in the print window?
@@shannonburns2289 I can set mine on my computer in the pop up box for different types of printer paper but it might vary by printer
@@shannonburns2289 Yes, the setting is under Preferences. Every printer driver is different as is every printer. Most Brother LASER printers will have the same setup. Inkjet printers are a different beast. An inkjet printer is not able to print on really thick paper so they may not have the option. You would set it to the thickest paper option you have and print on normal copier type paper.
Hello, how do you double print? Put the print back in the paper carrier? Thanks!
This is an excellent lesson! I’m a former (many years!) art instructor…..
I’m envious! Seriously, this video is very well organized and presented. So much information and no useless wandering around. If there are awards given for instructional videos you should get an Oscar. Now….my 16 x 20” Gelli should be here this pm…….can’t wait…..
Wow! What a comment. I am so happy that you found my video. I’m a bit jealous of the 16x20 inch plate. I’m hoping to get one soon 🫶 ❤️🫶❤️🫶
This is one of the better videos on how to do gel plate image transfers and Jessica's prints are beautiful. If you are going to paint your print on the plate like Jessica does in this video, you will need to let each layer dry before you add the next layer.
Oh thank you! How thoughtful of you!
I use packing tape to lift little bits of paint. Works a treat.❤
I am going to try that
This is awesome! Thank you SO much for your precise, detailed and so very warm way to explain your whole process!
Thank you 💚
I am so happy! Thanks for sharing your feedback
Dang girl! Thank you SO much! Going to watch this multiple times! ❤️🙏🏻👍🖌🎨
YAY!!! Happy you find it helpful
Don't make the mistake of buying the Speedball plates which are used with printmaking inks. The processes are NOT interchangeable.
Yes! I was so frustrated with Speedball for this process.
What Gelli Plate do you both recommend? Thank you.
Excellent. Thanks a million.
My pleasure ♥️
lovely!!!
Excellent tutorial. I love your explanations and your work. My mind was racing with all the possibilities. Gifts I could make for my children and grandchildren of the family home, places visited and loved by us all. Thank you.
Thank you so much! It is a great way to reimagine your photos. Have fun!!!
This looks like my type of art!!
thanks so much
This is such a great video! Thank you for sharing your process for how you created these images, especially the printing tips at the end. Plus it was a delight to see your artwork too!
Thank you so much! Greatly appreciate 💝
Your video was the best I have watched. Some don’t explain you have to let the paint dry. Thank you. And I loved how you had color with a paint brush.
Always happy to help! Thank you so much. You made my day
Amazing training video, thank you very much!
You're very welcome!
Wow! I love ❤️ this technique! Plan to try it as soon as I get a chance! Thank you !
Wonderful!
Thank you so much for this video!
Glad it was helpful!
This is amazing! Thank you so much for the great tutorial! I can't wait to try this. I had never heard of this type of printing before and love how accessible it is with a minimal amount of supplies. So excited!
You are so welcome!
Brilliant! Thank you Jessica, a great explanation of your process
You are so welcome!
This is the BEST tutorial I have seen!!! Thank you!
Wow, thank you! 😊
Amazing content! Thanks so much for the lessons!
My pleasure ☀️♥️🎨
What great insights!!!!
Thanks!
His was a fantastic video and very informative. Can’t wait to start. Thanks ❤
You are so welcome! 🤗
The print with the arched window is my favorite!
That is one of my favorites too
I simply love your work!! You have really transformed the art of jelly printing into a fine art, especially with the added painting of your plates! And I also love the experimental-ness and fun of finding a style I need to find a style and I love the experimentation you do. Thank you for all of the, wonderful tips and tricks.
And I meant to say anyone can print with a gelli print, but it takes an artist to find a real true work of art!❤
I am totally blown away by your comment. Thanks for your supportive and kind words! You have made my day ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Thank you. The best tutorial I have seen on Gelli Printing.
That is so great to hear. I am happy you found it helpful
I felt a true creative spark from your wonderful video. Thank you!!!
Wow, thank you 😊
✨ brilliant TY
Amazing thank you! This is super helpful!
Glad you found it helpful!!!
I have been honing my transfer skills for over a year now, and still this tutorial provided new information. I have yet to try the "painterly effect", and will undoubtedly return to this video as it focuses on that particular method of treating a transfer. The info comes at the viewer at a good clip, so I'll be re-watching with pen and paper at the ready.
Yay! So happy to hear this Shannon
Wow! These images are just fabulous, and _just_ the kind of thing I'd love to create with a gelli plate - thank you, Jessica!
Thanks so much. I’m going to work on some more tutorials. Let me know what you still want to learn about ❤️❤️❤️
@@bluelavaart Thank you! I shall put my thinking cap on as I definitely want to learn more.
Thanks once again for sharing your gifts with us, Jessica. 🤍
Have never used photo transfers before. Am definitely intrigued. Thank you so much.
You are so welcome! 🤗
Great video thanks!
Glad you liked it! ♥️
looks so fun!! thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge about this fascinating art of transferring images and printmaking.
You are so welcome
You are a true artist and an inspiration for our work, thank you
Wow, thank you! Greatly appreciated
Thanks!
Thank you so very much ♥️🎨♥️
Stonepaper is the best for this kind of printing
I use it in my journal but never thought about it for printing. Thanks for the tip
Thank you for a brilliant presentation and a wealth of information!
Greatly appreciated!!!
Certainly, you’re very welcome. What is your favorite way to clean your gelli plate?thank you…
@@viviannedelavega605 Using baby oil for the stuborn crusty bits.
So much here! Many things to try now. Thanks for taking the time to share!
You are so welcome! 🤗
Wow, what generous instruction - thank you from Mexico!
Thanks for watching! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Great video thank you ❤
You are so welcome!
This is the most detailed tutorial and most helpful gelli plate printing video I have found. Thank you for being so precise and reassuring that all my mistakes aren't solely my fault 😅
Glad it was helpful! and the mistake are totally not your fault. It is a delicate process with lots of variables
Thank you so much for taking the time to share. I have learned a lot.
Glad it was helpful! ❤️🤩❤️🤩
this was great, thank you so much for sharing!
You are so welcome!
Thank you for an excellent tutorial. Now I need to get a laser printer!
Glad it was helpful! ♥️
Loved this video! Sometimes if you have an area that is sticking and peeling, you can add some matte medium and put your paper back down. Wait a bit, then see if you can salvage the area. Of course painting over it or collage works too! I love using my own photos in this transfer process!
Thanks so much! That is a great tip. that little bit extra of medium could really help
@@bluelavaart it doesn’t always work, but sometimes the gelli -plate gods come through. I love how you paint over the background to create a very painterly work.
Thanks so much. The plate gods are finicky
Thank you for showing how to use your own photographs, which is why I wanted to learn gel printing. I wasn’t have any success transferring magazine images let alone mine . Just purchased a laser printer, hope this works.
Glad it was helpful! It is a tricky process and takes some small tweaks to get it right. Have fun
Excellant information. I can't wait to try this!
Have fun!
This is really cool. I am going to give this a try.
Go for it!
WOW. Thank you for the great instructions! This is a very helpful video. I am sending you greetings and sunshine from New Mexico.
So happy you found it helpful! Greetings from Germany
Thank you so very much for this video! I have been having a lot of difficulty with doing transfers, but have made some progress after watching this. Your suggestions are working well, but I am only getting any success at all with my sketch like images, but would love to transfer some of my own photos. I have been very selective in which images I try, and they seem to be of high contrast, but do not transfer in the way your storefronts do. I would appreciate anymore suggestions. And again, thank you for helping me to make progress! I love your work.
It might be the amount of paint on your gel plate. Is there no image appearing and all the paint sticking to the photo or is the paint remaining on the plate? It could also be the amount of pressure. I posted a short last week that might be helpful th-cam.com/users/shortsvFsnONx79Fo?feature=share
I sometimes get ones that I think will work great but then don't transfer. It can be frustrating
and thank you so much for your kind words
Thanks for this very informative video!
Glad it was helpful!
I'm a new subbie. Love your channel. Thx. Austin TX USA
Welcome!! Thanks!!!! Let me know if there are any types of art videos you would like to see
Thank you so much! Love from Strasbourg France😘💝
You are so welcome! Merci ❤️ Strasbourg
Great tutorial ❤❤❤😊
Thank you! 😊 So glad you liked it. I am working on a new one with some new tips.
This is a great video! Thank you. You've opened my eyes to some new techniques that I'm excited to try. One Q for now: When printing inject photos, should I print on glossy photo paper or plain paper? Appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us
So happy that you found it helpful. - Ink jet uses ink whereas laser printers use toner. The toner works better for this but some people do it with ink jet as well . Toner has plastic in it which repels the paint and makes this process work. So use laser and I print them on regular printer paper, not glossy.
Yikes. Great job!!!!
Thank you so much! I am so intrigued by this process and want to give it a go. So for the final layer you use either gel medium OR white acrylic? When would you use each method?
I am so happy your found it helpful. I would use gel medium if I want the color of the paper to show through, or have more transparency. I use white if I want a bit more brightness and opacity for the transfer. I also use other colors and that is just based on experimenting. Good luck :)
! @bluelavaart That's very helpful. Thank you!
Thank you very much excellent demo. Ive tried endlessly to use my Brother laser printer, but always have a fail, even putting it through twice. Can I ask what laser printer you use. Many others use Brother and not good results. Cheers.
I use a Triumph Adler. It might be a problem with the resolution of your prints. Is there no image appearing and all the paint sticking to the photo or is the paint remaining on the plate?
Thank you.
And I honestly would have liked to have seen you do the dolphins in water in that one photo transfer. A little old style with a lot of whimsy and movement.
Next time! perhaps! Thanks so much!
Thank you for your tutorial videos. Can you use acrylic gouache or gouache for gel printing? Thank you in advance for your advice.
You are welcome! You can but I don't think they work well for image transfers. There are a lot of media that you can use on these plates though.
Thank you so much for the great tutorial. Will you also experiment with photos of people? I would like to see what you do with them. Thank you! 😊
You are welcome! I will try with people. Sounds fun
@@bluelavaart thank you, looking forward to it!!
Love your tutorial! Question: What kind of White Paint Marker you use?
It is a white gel pen 🖊️
I really enjoyed this video and the results that you got. I got a 6"x6" gel press plate for Christmas and gave it its first try out today. I tried a photo print and underpainting one as I really like the look of that but results were not on par with yours. Do you wait for the underpainting to dry before you add the white acrylic and bayer that over everything and then place the paper/card over? I didn't and the white sort of blended a lot of the other colours (not all). Thanks
Yes, make sure all of the layers are dry before working on the next. Otherwise the colors will blend and possibly start to lift off of the plate. It takes a fair amount of experimenting. I hope that helps and enjoy your new plate.
@@bluelavaart thank you :)
What version of PS are you using? Love these videos, thanks.
The latest version / Creative Cloud
Thank you for all the specific information. Painting sections after the image is made looks amazing. I'm really struggling. I don't have a laser printer, so I went to a local big box office supply store where they said all of their printers were laser printers. When I pull the imaged paper off of the gelli plate it picks up all of the paint...no image left behind. (like the photos you show at the beginning of your video). I used different thicknesses of paint thinking that could be the issue, but same result. I pulled a page from a magazine - not high contrast - but it did at least create an image. Do you think the prints I made at the store were not really printed with laser print toner??? Thanks!
It could be the prints from the store. I have heard others have had similar problems. Perhaps they are printing on an eco mode that doesn’t require much toner. So frustrating.
@@bluelavaart Thanks - I just had some printed at a different copy store - we shall see what happens!
Hi Jessica, this is an incredible tutorial to get started with transferring images. I have one question about it, in the minute 21:00 you transfer an image then add some gel medium, put some paper over it and some books, my question is, this process will not pull off the image when the paper is removed? and how long did you leave the books over until you remove them? thanks for your answer and thanks again for this wonderful and helpful tutorial! 👏
I put the gel medium on after the black from the image transfer dried. However, you found a glitch in my video. The books and paper go on after the reverse painting. You are the first person to tell me about it. Thank you!!! I totally didn't spot that error. Anyway, I normally leave the books on for about 20 minutes then I will pull the paper when it feels dry. That could be 5 minutes or an hour. Depends on the thickness of the paint and the humidity.
@bluelavaart how many minutes it takes to drying? Is gel plate reusable or not?
You can reuse it endlessly! It depends on how many layers of reverse painting for the drying time Sometimes overnight
I missed why was the gel medium used at one point? Your video is the first I've seen where you've used a brush, thats a great idea! Really great video! I'm so excited to get started! This is my first day even looking into all of this but just had a thought, have you ever tried rolling a glass over the gel plate? I'm just thinking of all the possibilities! Oh wow! The white paint marker!!! Thanks again for sharing this!
The gel medium sometimes helps the acrylic paint from pooling when it is applied with a brush. I usually will cover the photo transfer layer with a coat before I start in with the paint brush.. I don't know if it would work with glass. Let me know if you try it out! Thanks!
Thanks!!!
Love love love!!!! Subscribed and ready to play, but I NEED A LASER PRINTER RECOMMENDATION, please 🙏. I am very determined and missing that one key ingredient.
I’m definitely not an expert on types of printers. But I can say that the quality of your image including the resolution and contrast probably play a greater role, then the type of laser printer.
@@bluelavaart Noted, and thank you so much.
6:40 I found that leaving paper for more than a minute results in some 30-40% of the paper stuck to the plate for good, which ruins the whole print. I use liquitex basics, Amsterdam, W&N Artist grade and a 160gsm smooth printer paper on a Gellie Arts plate. I also use Matt medium or acrylic medium (instead of gel medium as in your case). Basically I follow each of your step and your timing, but my prints gets stuck to the well-seasoned plate. Why? I’d love to hear your thought please please please 😊
I sometimes even leave the paper on overnight! I think that last transfer layer is the key bit. Since I do a fair amount of layers before the transfer layer of paint or gel medium, I tend to do a very thick transfer layer. I am using 250 gr Bristol. That might be the issue. Good luck
Is double printing a laser print the only way to get best transfer to plate ? What is the best paper to print the image ? Is it best to pull image right away from plate? And is Bristol board best final paper?
Here are my answers; Is double printing a laser print the only way to get best transfer to plate ? Yes. Some people have some luck with inkjet but it is a slightly different process. What is the best paper to print the image ? I use regular printer paper most of the time. Is it best to pull image right away from plate? During the image transfer part, yes, you want to pull it after some light pressure. And is Bristol board best final paper? That is what I prefer. I hope this helps
Can you use plane glaze as opposed to the gel medium I think it's called?
It depends on the glaze. I don’t think it will be as effective though. Gel medium has an elasticity to it that helps appeal off of the gel plate.
@@bluelavaart Thank you! I'll be ordering the gel medium!
🙂This is amazing Jessica! Thank you for this. I’m sure you mentioned it already but after a few (several🥴) replays I’m still curious as to what specific kind of paint you’re using when you’re adding the colors (2nd layer). Is it just a good acrylic paint (i.e) what is used for transferring to the gelli plate?
Wonderful! Thanks so much. Usually, I go with Amsterdam and Liquitex paints, but Golden acrylic paint every now and then
Same as the image transfer layer
At 13 mins in you paint the gelli plate. Do you wait for the paint to dry (1st layer) before painting over the top with the next colour? It only just struck me at 13 minutes in though you used the same technique earlier. I got a gelli plate for Christmas which I want to have a play with’ … when I find a clear table to work on! I love your prints. I haven’t done any printmaking for 30 years or more. The gelli plate technique looks exciting! I’m only 13 minutes in and looking forward to seeing what happens next!
Thanks! Yes. I let the image transfer layer dry before adding more paint. Let it dry between layers. Have fun
Hi. Did you use Matt or gloss gel medium? Great tutorial 😀
Satin medium 😊thank you
great video. especially the try and error process. ive been through all the steps over and over again but nothing worked. unfortunatly home laser printers (at least newer models) dont work with the transfer technique because the toner for home laser printers is modified for homeuse. professional laser printers and giant copy machines still work with the 'old' toner technique and so very well for transfer.
i wanted to get this work so bad 😢 also tried double printing but home lasers dont line very well on multiple prints.
I know it can be really frustrating. Check to see if you are printing on an eco mode that saves on toner. Also, I am working on a detailed video about this process and some things that could help. I hope to have it posted this week. If you like, you can subscribe and turn on notifications,
@@bluelavaart i tried everything in your video. i live in germany i have access to all the tools you are using. but still no success. i tried everything form 1 to 5 layers of toner. also matt medium to get it stick. but nope. different brands of plates. still no transfer. magazine pages work perfectly fine.
looking forward to the new video :)
I posted the video. I hope this helps 🤞🤞🤞@krimimimi
Would transferring work on fabric, like T-shirt or canvas ? With fabric paint ?
Apparently yes. I haven’t done it. You need to mix a fabric binder into the paint
Thanks!❤❤❤
You're welcome 😊 Thank you much. Greatly appreciated
What if have an ink jet printer? Is it possible to take photocopies of the inkjet printed image and use that?
Laser Printers use toner that has plastic bits in it. That’s what repels the paint. Some manage to get it to work with ink jet but not easily
Hello. Does it have to be laser print or can inkjet also work? I can't afford a LaserJet printer and there aren't any print shops where I live.
Ink jet uses ink whereas laser printers use toner. The toner works better for this but some people do it with ink jet as well . Toner has plastic in it which repels the paint and makes this process work.
Could you advice what materials are needed (not too expensive).
Amsterdam paint is the one I can recommend. It is mid range price. Good luck :)
Thanks so much for such a detailed explaination and demo. Laser paper. Do you have a link to your source of HP Premium. Can't seem to find the exact weight (80 gms) and brightness finish (170). Thanks so much.
I bought mine off Amazon here in Germany. Anything kind of similar would work
@@bluelavaart That explains it:) We have a 90 gm, so I'll try that! SO EXCITED!!!!
This is an awesome video.
Could you please tell me what type of paper do you print on.
Thanks❤
Thanks so much. Bristol is a slightly thicker smooth and very durable paper. I have been having a lot of success with this type of paper but it is not the only paper you can use.114lb 205 grams
Thanks for your prompt reply 👍
Help! I need to know what printer you are using my lazer prints are not working
I am using a triumph Adler. However, I think it might have to do with the photo editing before you print them. I have a whole other video on troubleshooting laser prints. Check that out.
Speedball plate distroyd my happyness in the beginning of my gelliplate carriere. 😢 But then I order a GELLI plate ,and at last I love to print.
Yes, same here! I struggled so much in the beginning. I bought the speedball because I generally like the brand but in this case Gelli for the win!!!!
Does this technique work with InkJet prints or does it have to be a Laser print?
Laser Printers use toner that has plastic bits in it. That’s what repels the paint. Some manage to get it to work with ink jet but not easily or at all
Can you share the brand of laser printer you have? We don't have a color laser printer at school.
It is a Triumph Adler. However, i have heard Cannon works well
So many questions - have tried this with inkjet printer but no luck whatsoever. I can try to use a laser printer but I have to go somewhere else to have my photo printed out. Will that still work? Can the prints be a couple of days old?
The prints can be old. I have use several months old print outs without an issue. Ink jet doesn't work well or at all for this process. I just made a tutorial about laser prints. th-cam.com/video/EqHEswiFoZs/w-d-xo.html
How long do you wait for your transfer to dry before painting on it?
until it is dry to the touch. Typically only a couple of minutes
Acrylics can be mixed with water, but is that something that would work on a plate? If one wants less vibrant colours, more subdued.
Yes. But I would suggest using a gel medium to help thin the paint without it being runny
@@bluelavaart thank you for the tip!
Great video, thank you! But please what is the trick to getting an image to transfer. I’m about ready to give up. It can’t be hit or miss. There has to be some reliable method
I recently put up another video that shows lots of reasons why your images might not be transferring and how to solve it.
th-cam.com/video/EqHEswiFoZs/w-d-xo.html
@@bluelavaart thanks I’ll check it out
Do most people use black for the first layer of paint on the gelli plate?
You can use other colors but the black works quite well.
@@bluelavaart Thanks
Are there any alternative to gelli plates like lino?
Speedball makes one that I use in the beginning. But I think the Gelli one works better for image transfer. People have diy-ed them at home too
Hi. Just started gelli printing. Having troubles with laser print transfers. The prints simply don't transfer. Any suggestions on the best laser printer to use?
I am not an expert on types of printers but I can offer you these suggestions: Run it through the printer 2xs to lay more toner on the image. Use high contrast images. Print in CMYK if you can.
@@bluelavaart thanks for the tips. what printer you have? I thinking of buying one but the choice is too much
I am fortunate to be able to use the one at my work.
The cheapest brother B&W printer will do it.@@michaelverbaas7811
Some laser printers warm fix The colors (The Big expensive - like the one my school have) and some cool fix them (most inexpensive). You can’t transfer the warm fixed prints
Can inkjet printer work for this.
Toner works better because it has plastic in it which works for this process. I’ve never been able to do it with ink jet, but some people have had some success with it.