I think consistency is perhaps more important than flexibility in the optic discussion. Having the exact same sight pucture every single time is massively underrated and can help you a lot in a KISS system Also something i dont hear discussed a lot is that if youre running an LPVO on its own you'll have to dial to the correct magnification to take a diattance shot which often takes more time than just using the fixed magnification anyway. If youre not dialing down to 1x and using an offset anyway then you're losing the advantages you set out to gain. I still run an LPVO but i think that prisms are massively underrated and that the consistency of sight picture and usability and durabilty gain as well as weight savings can't be underrated. Also the way balance shift is something people dont talk about either. A 1lb optic at the back of the rail vs 1.5-2lb spread out over the entirety of it changes the swing and balance dramatically increasing fatigue while ads
Multiple factors are coming into play. What is this weapon’s purpose? How big is the shooter? What shape is the shooter in? 1) home defense weapon save your self the hassle and get a red dot and tack light. Reason: light weight and ease of sight picture distances out to 100 meters all good 2) police: red dot and tack light. Reason light weight, ease of sight picture and capabile of 100 meters 3) Johnny do all rifle in the country: LPVO FFP or SFP offset red dot and tack light. Reason: red dot for closer engagements and the ability to reach distances out to 500 meters possibly more 4) Johnny do all city: red dot and magnifier and tack light. Lighter weight than LPVO but can engage targets to 350 meters with practice. The smaller the shooter or more out of shape will play a factor on your decision also. GI Jane at 5’5” 110 lbs a 10+lbs rifle is going to catch up on endurance quickly compared to a 6’ 210 lbs male that work’s construction. Just saying. Military gear is out of most people’s sights as they can’t train 30+ hours a week. A smaller person can build endurance and fortitude to bear a 10+ lbs rifle along with the rest of the gear they carry but it takes consistent training to stay in that shape. Just because you saw it on a weapon system used by DELTA doesn’t mean it’s gonna work for you. One, they are loading out to a specific response or mission. Two, they train extremely hard. Three, they have an unlimited budget $40k NODs and $7k to $10k weapon system just for starters and support of the Military. Stay focused on your situation and needs specific to your environment. My $0.12
The questions should be: what is your target size and engagement distance? I'd say that most shots will be well within 500y. And the average shooter will struggle to hit 20"x20" target at that distance. Sure, a rare shot beyond that distance and the 1% of riflemen who _might_ benefit from increased magnification - but is that useful for most? Unlikely.
If the research done in the 50's remains true, most shots in combat are within 100 yards and only rarely exceed 300 yards outside of special roles like snipers. The point about target differentiation is important, though.
A pound...Vortex 1x8 is 23 ounces, plus the mount. Tried looking through one of their prisms, but the eye relief was so tight, it was almost unusable. Ended up with a PA red dot to try out. They were having a 50% off sale last weekend. Bought 2. Not sure how the eye relief their prisms are?
Prisms just aren't going to compete against LPVOs when it comes to eye relief. My TA33 notwithstanding, and it has a significant tradeoff in field of view to do so, they're all pretty tight.
You're probably going to choose between the Vortex Spitfire HD Gen II or the Swamp Fox Saber. The Vortex is lighter and more compact, but has half the field of view. The Swamp Fox is significantly heavier, but has a massive field of view, a more useful reticle (IMO). I think magnifiers are fine, but they're not really competitive here. I look at magnifiers as an intermediate solution where you know you're going to run a red dot 90% of the time and the magnification is a slight bonus (at the cost of weight, eye relief, and complexity of the mounting system).
@@EverydayMarksman Thanks I'll take a look at those. I had the Steiner S332 and S432, incredible glass, adjustable diopter, giant ocular and good FOV, but incredibly heavy and small reticle that wasn't daylight bright. Sold those, don't like ACOGs due to no diopter adjustment, heard the discontinued version of the Sig Bravo5 was good but hard to find and expensive. how do the ones you mentiones stack up to the Steiner T and M series prisms?
@@888corsa I don't have experience with the Steiner models, so really can't give an honest comparison, sorry. Steiner obviously has a great reputation, and I own some other stuff from them- but not the prisms.
I think consistency is perhaps more important than flexibility in the optic discussion. Having the exact same sight pucture every single time is massively underrated and can help you a lot in a KISS system
Also something i dont hear discussed a lot is that if youre running an LPVO on its own you'll have to dial to the correct magnification to take a diattance shot which often takes more time than just using the fixed magnification anyway. If youre not dialing down to 1x and using an offset anyway then you're losing the advantages you set out to gain.
I still run an LPVO but i think that prisms are massively underrated and that the consistency of sight picture and usability and durabilty gain as well as weight savings can't be underrated. Also the way balance shift is something people dont talk about either. A 1lb optic at the back of the rail vs 1.5-2lb spread out over the entirety of it changes the swing and balance dramatically increasing fatigue while ads
Multiple factors are coming into play. What is this weapon’s purpose? How big is the shooter? What shape is the shooter in?
1) home defense weapon save your self the hassle and get a red dot and tack light. Reason: light weight and ease of sight picture distances out to 100 meters all good
2) police: red dot and tack light. Reason light weight, ease of sight picture and capabile of 100 meters
3) Johnny do all rifle in the country: LPVO FFP or SFP offset red dot and tack light. Reason: red dot for closer engagements and the ability to reach distances out to 500 meters possibly more
4) Johnny do all city: red dot and magnifier and tack light. Lighter weight than LPVO but can engage targets to 350 meters with practice.
The smaller the shooter or more out of shape will play a factor on your decision also. GI Jane at 5’5” 110 lbs a 10+lbs rifle is going to catch up on endurance quickly compared to a 6’ 210 lbs male that work’s construction. Just saying. Military gear is out of most people’s sights as they can’t train 30+ hours a week. A smaller person can build endurance and fortitude to bear a 10+ lbs rifle along with the rest of the gear they carry but it takes consistent training to stay in that shape.
Just because you saw it on a weapon system used by DELTA doesn’t mean it’s gonna work for you. One, they are loading out to a specific response or mission. Two, they train extremely hard. Three, they have an unlimited budget $40k NODs and $7k to $10k weapon system just for starters and support of the Military. Stay focused on your situation and needs specific to your environment.
My $0.12
The questions should be: what is your target size and engagement distance?
I'd say that most shots will be well within 500y. And the average shooter will struggle to hit 20"x20" target at that distance.
Sure, a rare shot beyond that distance and the 1% of riflemen who _might_ benefit from increased magnification - but is that useful for most? Unlikely.
If the research done in the 50's remains true, most shots in combat are within 100 yards and only rarely exceed 300 yards outside of special roles like snipers. The point about target differentiation is important, though.
A pound...Vortex 1x8 is 23 ounces, plus the mount. Tried looking through one of their prisms, but the eye relief was so tight, it was almost unusable. Ended up with a PA red dot to try out. They were having a 50% off sale last weekend. Bought 2. Not sure how the eye relief their prisms are?
Prisms just aren't going to compete against LPVOs when it comes to eye relief. My TA33 notwithstanding, and it has a significant tradeoff in field of view to do so, they're all pretty tight.
which are the best 5x prisms?And what if you throw a G45 magnifier and red dot into the mix?
You're probably going to choose between the Vortex Spitfire HD Gen II or the Swamp Fox Saber. The Vortex is lighter and more compact, but has half the field of view. The Swamp Fox is significantly heavier, but has a massive field of view, a more useful reticle (IMO).
I think magnifiers are fine, but they're not really competitive here. I look at magnifiers as an intermediate solution where you know you're going to run a red dot 90% of the time and the magnification is a slight bonus (at the cost of weight, eye relief, and complexity of the mounting system).
@@EverydayMarksman Thanks I'll take a look at those. I had the Steiner S332 and S432, incredible glass, adjustable diopter, giant ocular and good FOV, but incredibly heavy and small reticle that wasn't daylight bright. Sold those, don't like ACOGs due to no diopter adjustment, heard the discontinued version of the Sig Bravo5 was good but hard to find and expensive. how do the ones you mentiones stack up to the Steiner T and M series prisms?
@@888corsa I don't have experience with the Steiner models, so really can't give an honest comparison, sorry. Steiner obviously has a great reputation, and I own some other stuff from them- but not the prisms.