So i made a short that better and more concisely puts into words what im trying to defend here, but if you wanna watch me fumble the words out in this unscripted, by all means! But heres a link to the short to save you time: th-cam.com/video/OGLOlLac0vQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VnddEWGet_gx2BUW
I think you are right, we underestimated Caitlyn, we thought she became a dictator, but she never cared about that, its just that she has this intense hate for Jinx, thats it, she doesnt want war at all, and we can see her clashing with Ambessa in the beginning of episode 4 when Maddie is there. Its Caitlyn using Ambessa, not the other way around. Caitlyn used Ambessa to gain power in her search for Jinx, and she used Ambessa to train her in close combat. Ambessa says it herself "...or maybe I underestimated you". She definitely did, and so did we.
@Blue_nip exactly! And I love that she says this to her in regards to her lack of brutality, just trying to manipulated her again using the death of her mom, but she didn't truly believe she underestimated her at all. In Ambessas mind, she reads Caitlyn like a book, not knowing that book is more fiction than factual.
It is certainly an interesting theory. I hope it ends being true. Especially as we see that Cait says to Maddie that she has learned a lot from Ambessa. And I’m sure she implied more than the hand-to-hand combat. Essentially we keep forgetting that Cait is a young adult. Yes she was an enforcer but that in no way prepared her to become a sole commander of the whole city at this age. When suddenly put in the leadership spot, her only choices were to either adapt like it was mentioned in the video or to let Ambessa choose some other pawn and risk situation getting out of hand and her having no control over it. She for sure has grown tremendously from this experience and was able to use Ambessa’s army and experience to establish a tentative control over the undercity. As everyone pointed out, she most likely has become very wary of Ambessa pretty early into their “mentorship”. Cait looking pretty serious, maybe even upset, in the montage of “Paint the Town Blue” could be related to her stress of disagreeing/being burdened by Ambessa’s tactics but not being able to voice them out loud or do anything alone. And she is so… lonely this season and has no one to go to. Jayce, Mel, Vi, her mother - people that she relied on emotionally and who could advise her were all gone or pushed away. No wonder she relied on Maddie for comfort and Ambessa for advice. And the last thing to point out when it comes to the intense hate that she had for Jinx. I think that hatred has actually mellowed. It was extremely intense during her grieving period, during the days of her mother’s funeral, which made her more emotional. But after 6-7 months that passed, her resolve to arrest Jinx seems to be there, but it maybe no longer hatred driven but rather just logical at this point. Jinx is always that wild card that brings destruction and danger to Piltover, and naturally Cait can’t rest till she deals with her. But a huge sign that Caitlyn might be forgiving Jinx on a personal level is Ambessa’s words saying “maybe I underestimated you, maybe you have the strength to forgive and trust in tomorrow”, as well as her relatively calm but surprised reaction to Jinx in ep6 when she just said “You 😮” when Jinx hugged Warwick.
One detail I love is that when Caitlyn asks Vi what she's doing there Vi replies "trying to save my dad" and that's the last scene we see get cut off before its revealed later Caitlyn betrayed Ambessa. She made an active choice to help Vi not lose a parent. Even though the Undercity took her mother away from her, she makes an active choice to Vi, a Zaunite, get their parent back. Its such an interesting catalyst to get her to change her mind. And that's not mentioning how seeing Singed become a horrible person because of his obssession with saving his daughter made her see that her obsession with avenging her mom leads down a dark path.
Never doubted my girl. She's always been not only intelligent, but very emotionally intelligent. Even if she let her emotions get the better of her in Act 1, like you said, she's not stupid. Not someone who can be easily manipulated. I can't wait for Act 3, the brain worms never rest. Thank you for the ultra brained takes.
Exactly, she had a good upbringing. Despite having a weak moment (or 3) it would have been crazy for the show to throw away all of her character development over 10+ episodes and say she's this war hungry dictator. It just doesn't fit. If anything I think it's so creative of the writers to make CAIT the one that was using Ambessa.
Honestly? I feel like anyone who says the turnaround for Caitlyn was rushed just wasn't paying attention to her arc at all Setting aside the points you made and the doubts Cait was already showing in episode 4, her ENTIRE SIDE PLOT in episode 5 was her starting off furious, thinking Singed and Warwick are just one more example of the "perverse abominations" Zaun produces and that maybe the solution is to start allowing even worse punishment for prisoners than she has been so far, but then instead of just assuming this to be correct and moving forward, she goes back to her roots as a detective and actually investigates the truth of the situation And what happens? First, she discovers that Ambessa has been making deals with scientists behind her back, including one as monstrous as Singed. And second, she learns that Singed isn't from Zaun at all! He is a once respected Piltovan who has been tormenting innocent citizens of the undercity for decades now, poisoning and torturing them and turning them into monsters. Even Shimmer, the dangerous Zaunite weapon she spent all of act 1 trying to eliminate, was actually not their creation but something he inflicted on them Then she discovers that all of that pain and death he caused was motivated by love for a deceased family member, just like all of her own worst decisions, and she has to ask herself... if I continue down this path, is this who I'm going to become? Someone who will do ANYTHING for their goals and has no sympathy for the Zaunites? Who sees them as less than human, like Singed who constantly refers to them as "subjects" and "catalysts" and stuff, not people? Which I think directly informs everything she does in episode 6
Damn I didn't even realize that last part... Of course her finding out that this "monster", as she put it, was doing all that for the sake of a loved one that passed away, just like she was doing, would make her rethink some things.
I needed this perspective so much, I actually didn't realize she realized that Singed was from Piltover, I was so caught up on the name reveal. This show NEVER loses track of who it's characters are, I love it.
The full complete reasoning behind Caitlin's shift 1. She caught Ambessa two times having a meeting with singed, Ambessa didn't tell her they made a deal. In Ep 5 when Caitlin comes in you can see both Ambessa and Singed weren't expecting her and she says "general" to Ambessa with that look and tone. In Ep 6 when Cait goes to report Vi its makes it seem like Cait interrupted a meeting between Ambessa and singed again, She is the commander, Ambessa has no right to look at her like that and she doesn't respect her. Ambessa calls her "Caitlyn" instead of Commander when she comes into the tent. You can see the looks between Ambessa, singed and Rictus reflect this. 1.5 in Ep 5 she Caitlyn say's "Id begun to think we might finally see an end to Zaun's perverse abominations", she thinks it was Zaun that did this but later she finds out it was a Piltover scientist. 2. She realizes she is becoming like singed. Thanks to the Kiramman vault Cait realizes that singed is a Piltover scientist using Zaun as a test lab, and the reason for all of this? Love, this is the point she recognizes the path she's going down. 3. Training with Ambessa When training with Ambessa, Ambessa says might/ power aloud but Caitlyn says "too much power and you could leave an opening" inside her head, she is still going against Ambessa. When Ambessa starts to walk away with her back turned to Cait, Cait attacks her foreshadowing her betrayal later on. 4. Literally any conversation between Cait and Ambessa, Cait is always pushing back. 5. When Rictus walked up to Hutch you could see Ambessa eyes where still and tunnel visioned while Caits were jittery and she glanced over to Ambessa, she is not certain about this decision. When Ambessa let Singed walk into Viktor's camp you can see that Cait has an angry expression, she knows that Ambessa trusts Singed that much. 6. Cait doesn't want Vi's "Father" dead or used as a weapon or experimented on, She also knows that Vi already experienced the death of her father before from S1, she doesn't want to see Vi like that and she now knows what it feels like to loose a parent. This is the last point that lead to Cait betraying Ambessa. This is all that I could gather right now/ remember but there could be more I'm missing or I haven't caught onto.
i love this analysis, it proves Caitlyn to be much more trustworthy character, whereas i was of the mind that she is incredibly smart and meticulous, but more inclined to selfish pursuits, (i considered she may have wanted to manipulate Vi and use Vander as a weapon herself against Ambessa), maybe it really is out of true respect for Vi and her healing family. im clearly just overly cynical
The problem is that people called her a dictator and wanted her to be a dictator, but that was never her MO. I think the only thing the writers got wrong was overestimating the competency of the viewers.
I feel like the first scene with cait in act 2 shows how she doesnt like the methods they are using and thinks its gone too far, the only reason she kept going is she was blinded by revenge on jinx
I just realised that Ambessa's line about filling a vacuum could be a callback to what Vi said in ep1: "the hole gets smaller but you never fill it" so no matter who tried to help caitlyn move on, there was still a Vi shaped hole in her heart
I think you’re right. Imo Caitlyn was manipulated by Ambessa in the first 3 episodes. However during the last 3 episodes Caitlyn has had time to cool off and has realised that she’s taken things too far, and that she has been manipulated by Ambessa. I think during the last three episodes Caitlyn was going to make move against Ambessa even if Vi hadn’t appeared.
People who think scenes like this are rushed aren't truly paying attention to the character development and progression that is happening under the subtext of this show.
I think Caitlyn is intelligent enough to figure out her team is in the wrong when Ambessa is planning an attack on a pacifist community. It took her some time, but I think the fact her change of heart isn't written on the script is not bad writing, it's a conclusion she came to within herself and the lack of need to have a monologue or something of her explaining why she's turning on Ambessa to side with Vi. I agree with what you said that she was grieving, she was also not actively going to the undercity after Jinx and instead being stuck in piltover performing her duties of warlord. I'm not saying she's innocent, she definitelly knew the inforcers were being violent, but with her judgement clouded by her need to get revenge on her mother's death it's easier to justify her own actions or lack there of
Shes truly such a complex character, the writers have said that they base the stories in arcane off of individual impossible choices, making us, the viewers just as engaged with the rights and wrongs of everything the characters are presented with and what they end up choosing. its always so gray and never black and white. incredible.
My issue was that every time she talks about the citizens of Zaun, she dehumanizes them. It's coming from a place of grief, but it's still blind hate. When the memorial is attacked, she called them "animals." She didn't say *Jinx* was an animal, even though Jinx is obviously the object of her rage, but instead she gave a blanket statement. She let loose the Grey on the Undercity, again showing that she was perfectly willing to compromise the lives of those in the Undercity for the sake of getting Jinx. She offered the badge to Vi as a chance to try and prove that she was an exception to what Cait sees as the typical citizens of Zaun. Then later she tells Vi, "I thought you were different." She wasn't talking about different from her sister, that comparison had never been used the whole season. She was saying she thought Vi was different from the others of the Undercity. Finally, she remarks about the "abominations" of the Undercity. This can be litteral, since simmer soldiers are kinda monsters of a sort, but the disdain in her voice, and her presumption that "well of course it came from the Undercity" means she didn't expect better of that place or its people. To me, this, plus her actions as a leader, add up to her having a serious prejudice against the people of Zaun, or at the very least a casual disregard for their lives when hunting down Jinx. So while I might buy that she was aware of being manipulated and was looking for an opening to turn the tables on Ambessa, I don't think playing a dictator and oppressing an entire city of people was somehow part of the act. That's why her flipping after running into Vi again felt weird to me. She views the people of Zaun as second class citizens, wants Jinx dead more than anything, and was disgusted by the carnage Warwick had done to the guards of stillwater prison. Suddenly she's going to reverse her opinion of Zaunites and help rescue Vander, after figuring out it was him at stillwater? It seems slightly off that she would simply give him a pass just because he's Vi's dad, seeing as how she tried giving Vi's sister a pass and lost her mother for it. Why would one be ok, but the other wouldn't? Why hate all of Zaun, or at least be indifferent about them, but stick her neck out for her Ex's wolf dad? Why focus so heavily on law and order "for the sake of peace", but then throw out the rulebook just to help one creature? Don't get me wrong, I was glad to see them working together again. I think the show is still amazing. I could even rationalize that Vi might have told Cait that Vander wasn't in control of his actions at stillwater and needs help, not punishment. Maybe that could even explain how Cait would conclude that Ambessa wanting to collect him as a weapon was a step too far and took this opportunity to derail Ambessa's plans, but I had to do that lifting myself. I have no way to know for sure that's what's going on.
@ShockArcl1te yess. When she was saying all those gross sweeping terms about Zaun i was reminded of the Obi wan quote "only a sith deals in absolutes" 😂 so while we the viewers weren't ready for the sudden team up, and seemingly vi was, i really really hope to see some serious humbling on Caitlyns part in this next act. Preferably from Vi, being that she was at one point the one that was "different" than the rest, but no longer. This redemption arc needs to be ASTRONOMICAL
People think Caitlyn became a dictator, but nothing shows that, not even the end of Part 1. Ambassa explains it to Vi when she thought Vi was tied up in episode 6: without Vi, Ambassa used Caitlyn's hatred for Jinx, but without Jinx being around (and instead, her being in hiding not wanting anything to do with Silco's revolution), Caitlyn became manipulatable to Ambassa because of the anger of Jinx killing Caitlyn's mother. But as stated above without Jinx around, Caitlyn started thinking more clearly the more time had passed. What was left was a girl who was now seemingly in Ambessa's dictator-ship army. Viewers see at the beginning of episode four how untrue that is, and how much Caitlyn doesn't believe in Ambassa's dictator-ship rule. With all this in mind, it's understandable why the word, "Cupcake" had Caitlyn betraying Ambassa in the moment. Vi and Caitlyn still have a lot to talk about, but that moment wasn't the time. Not all of this includes what was in the video and what I've seen other people in the comments write.
But it's the holes in the story that are either implied or very subtle that make discussions like this so fun (and makes them exist in the first place!) So I dunno, I think Arcane is genius in the way it tells its story, even if it can feel a bit rushed and full of time skips.
@@lockekappa500 I hard agree! I've never been this engaged in a piece of media or its community quite like this before. This is how we SHOULD feel when we consume great stories!
i was also left after this episode feeling unsatisfied with how caitlyn was written but i really enjoyed hearing your take on it and i hope you are right in that i was underestimating caitlyn and the writers 🤧
I think she had been waiting for a way to match the wrath of Ambessa for a while, and Vi having ties with Warwick may have been that confidence she needed. The fear that Ambessa showed about Warwick i think mirrors the fear that Ambessa perceives from the black rose about acquiring hex tech. She sees that it scares her like nothing else has and immediately makes that her next goal, saving Warwick from Singed.
thanks for the analysis!! i felt the same but came around... i always knew cait wasnt gonna be a dictator, i just wanted to see her work through rage and grief and see her vengefulness for jinx die down more naturally. the "mistake" here wasnt how caitlyn was written but by how little we got to see from her perspective. shes an emotionally closed off character so u cant trust to see what she thinks clearly if u dont show us her perspective more overtly. but i agree with what u said, yet again we underestimated her...
@centripetal6157 that's so funny to me, thank you 😊 I've always been told my voice is annoying 😂 it's probably more palletable here because I have roommates and I'm speaking quietly 😂
I’m praying for a flashback to show her inner turmoil. Not expecting it…but hopeful. Love your take on this. Also if you see the look on Cait’s face when she’s putting the lantern at the monument to her mom…a councillor, you can see she’s deep in thought, knowing what she’s doing is a plan, she’s playing a role. Wouldn’t abandon what her mother died for.
Amanda Overton did say that we'll get a reveal about her alliance with Ambessa, so it seems we can expect something that will put this decision into more context!
I saw a comment that really made it click for me, and it all comes down to Singed. When she met Singed, at first, it was just another zaunite going rogue and doing something violent. But when she does her investigation, she finds out that he is actually a poltovan. A piltovan inacting violence to zaunite in the name of "love". Just like she is. Having this realization, I think showed her how she could turn out if she follows this path. And the final nail in the coffin is when Vi shows up. On top of that, she never really trusted Ambessa + you had Maddie telling her that she could end this war she created with Zaun, so she was already having doubts about this. So yeah, I don't believe she "flipped on a dime" either. Maybe it happened quickly. For sure, but yeah, it was well thought out and the seeds were there to be picked up on.
In my opinion Cairlyn wanted to learn from Ambessa . How she is, how she think, how she fight etc. Because she stoped trusting her and knew that one day she will have to face her. Also because of this one line which Vi says "so much for happy reunion" I somehow do not think there will be happy ending for Vi & Cait. And that makes me sad :(
I was also super disappointed when I first watched part 2. I hated Caitlyn's arc and the plan at the end of episode 6. I thought the witting was bad and that they simplified Caitlyn's arc to fit the length of the show. I had the time to read the comments and see people's reaction. Regarding her personality, I think you've nailed it. She learned her lessons, she knows she can't solve this alone. Ambessa is a formidable opponent. Even Mel, someone who knows how her mother works and who has decades of experience, couldn't keep up with her. What struck me is how badly she interrogated Singed. Cait has shows time and time again that she's a master at communicating. Her interactions with Ekko under the tree is a perfect exemple : he starts the conversation being super hostile but ends up doing exactly what she wants. With Singed, it's the exact opposite : she gains nothing and leaves. But she had planned for this and got what she wanted : Ambessa took the bait and struck a deal with Singed. The scene in Singed lab also irritated me. She acted like a teenager who can't control her emotions, pointing her gun at Singed and calling him a monster was so cringe. I was also surprised Ambessa didn't react but I think it's the reaction Caitlyn hoped for. Caitlyn is constantly making empty statements like "why is peace always used to justify violence ?" and I think it's on purpose, to lower Ambessa's guard. She thinks Cait is completely lost and that's why she's training her. And I'm pretty sure she talks a little bit too much during those training sessions, giving Cait valuable information. Regarding the plan in episode 6, I think it looks like Cait does it because she's so in love with Vi but I think it's a manipulation too. She just wanted to neutralize Singed while giving her the possibility to pretends she just wanted to save her GF's father. She also didn't wanted to give hints to Vi about what's really happening. Also, she had no reason to think Jinx was there. Cait was knocked out before she appeared and her gun was in Ambessa's tent. Even if she wanted (and I doubt she does), she had no way to kill Jinx. While writting this comment, I just realized something. If true, Cait has 200 IQ. We'll see Saturday.
@Morbacounet good catch on the interrogation style! Whipping out the gun just to persue the line of questioning is absolutely insane behavior, your right, its all likely to make Ambessa believe shes still unstable. And yea she for sure knew she couldn't take on jinx after watching the Noxan guy get flung out of the greenhouse for attacking Jinx, but I think she may have been more inclined to hold Vi back from saving Jinx when Isha sacrificed herself if she had been in the same state we had left her off at. She's more meticulous now though and maybe just the slightest inkling of empathy at the vision of a family (or maybe it's all just to use that family, we'll see). But mostly she's a sharp shooter through and through, she's gonna hit the target she's aiming at if she 'has the shot' and the moment she tackled Vi, she had the shot on Ambessa so to speak.
I think it could've been better with a bit more time. And by that, I mean just a handful of scenes, not an entire episode. Same thing with Jayce before his big moment. That said, everything still tracks. This isn't a GoT S8 situation, where people just shift personalities and motivations on a dime (at least I hope not). Edit: didn't know Jayce would get half an entire episode to his state-of-mind, so lemme just take that bit back
As much as people don't like their relationship, it seems Maddie has been instrumental in helping Cait regain her humanity and wake up to how Ambessa has been using her grief to manipulate her. As you say, Cait's smart and knew she'd got herself into a precarious position with Ambessa and didn't have the necessary elements available to take on her directly, until a certain 'angry oil slick' fell at her feet and called her Cupcake.
It felt rushed to me at times. Episodes 6-9 sooilers below: For example, we didn't see Mel's reaction to learning that Jayce vanished from this world, nor did we see her grieve. Another example is hearing Vi giving her input on Isha's sacrifice, they must have at least talked a little when they were on their way to Viktor's community at the bottom of the undercity, also from episode 5, we know that she finds out she was important to Jinx.
Hm, the thing is... It all makes perfect sense on paper, in the steril confides of writers room, when we analyse the shit out those moments, when people say things that were said while planning out the season, the vision is quite obvious. Like look at the cinematography (they stand strong there, can't argue), little symbolism here, a bit of parallel there. It's sure fun to watch (its Arcane after all), but it feels the way it feels because we still lack those extra moments and scenes that could fill the gaps in the whole. It becomes a problem when it creates the progression of the story feel artificial and unnatural. In terms of what was discussed here. I think the problem never truly was that Cait turned on Ambessa but how it happened. We see her being constantly at odds with Medarda, she does not trust her, we know that she will not stay at her side for long. But we don't really see Caitlyn actually do anything against Ambessas will until she met Vi again. She is just there, in the background. Standing... menacingly 😂 Furthermore, it feels weird the way CaitVi met and start to work tgt again, not without a reason. They coincidentally stumble on each other, The Commander of Nations Martial Law was not protected in a tent deep within armies safety, doing some low rank soldiers job. Caitlyn protected Singed from the outsider/stalker, she was very much still on the side of helping Singed get to 'the beast' and weaponize him, at that point. Or she didn't know how to proceed, but we could get sth with her trying to put off the inevitable. She knows about the mad scientist there, and does nothing about it. CaitVi banter... Okay... There is no tension in that scene besides sexual tension *wiggles eyebrows violently*, no moment/frame that could suggest that they broke up on bad terms, after the end of Act1 that's just disrespectful 😂 For me rn, the biggest missed opportunity this Act2 is relationship between The Commander and The General. Especially knowing that Arcane operates on connection and familial bonds. Since their first scene they don't trust and respect each other. They just put on a show. They act as those two company co-founders, that both are doing some business on the side, without the knowledge what exactly the other is doing, waiting to leave but still kinda hold afloat the mess they made together and at the same time are perfectly aware that both them and their 'partner' will be jumping ships the moment the opportunity arises. The are no stakes, no real conflict there. I didn't like that Ambessa suggests that she filled hole after Vi left(unless we speak about Maddie) not the more important mother sized gap. Because interactions between Ambessa and Caitlyn speak for themself, that the heck she did not fill nada. We were robbed of the mother-daughter rs, that would create some real conflict for Cait and/or even Ambessa, and her refusing to betray such an obvious threat in the form of Medardas character for so long. You know the wolf and the fox child she desired, the listening and suporting parent that Cait never saw in Cassandra. Like it was right there! But it would require time, that could not be afforded, for we had to have the more important VVP family plotline to see. That made the turning fell flat. Overall, writers and animators are obviously amazing. We feel the fuzziness, giddiness, the hype, the sadness of characters getting together, their sacrifices etc, because that's cinetamography for ya. Every scene is made for you to feel a certain way, that's how that works. Oh, and my little rant at producers this season, you cannot just throw a slick montage at everyhing you don't care to make a time for, no matter how sick music and animation is, it can never replace a genuine storytelling and dialogue. Okay, seeing some comments, I don't like people suggesting that others cannot comprehend the storytelling because reasons. Many just see the flaws. It looks spectacular when you are all the way zoomed in into the datails and analyse every brush stroke in an art piece, you start to see the cracks in the whole only after you take two steps back and look at it from the distance. Great video btw, loved and absolutely agree with your takes and points. Medarda was not taking Caitlyn seriously and it's hopefully gonna bite her in her sexy, Noxian butt. Waiting for Act3, don't know what to expect. We'll see how well the story will be concluded, i believe they'll do it nearly and respectfully, some detail just going to be rocky but I am hopeful
@hatexson Wow, this is my favorite comment so far. I completely agree. That's the thing about the music videos and and time skips, is that while it's beautiful and touching and I'm literally probably going make the isha and jinx dance my desktop background, it's definitely being more utilized in this season to tell the viewer why the moment is important, as opposed to in the first season, I'm thinking of the fight on the bridge with jinx and ekko, the music video was incredible and mostly was there just to give symbolism to the fight, with the firelight behind ekko and the raven behind jinx and such. (Also love that this season her symbol on the mural is now instead, a white dove) that one was pinnacle arcane MV imo, the one to show vi and powder growing up in water color was so sweet, so was the isha flashbacks, but felt a bit more like -hey yall, best start cryin now- And yea some people aren't really being very forgiving to the folks that don't see the writers intention IMMEDIATELY lmao. None of us are truly going to grasp the full scope at this point, especially when there's 3 more episodes to go! But the discussions besides that are like... so fun.. wtf.. I've never been so in awe of a singular communities ability to analyze and be creative JUST because it's fun to do so. Arcane isn't just for super viewers with extreme analysis powers, it's for people who just wanna watch a stunning collaborative piece of art that hundreds of people so clearly loved creating. Here's to act 3! I'm ready to be emotionally wrecked!
@hatexson >I don't like people suggesting that others cannot comprehend the storytelling because reasons You don't like it because they are correct. When you go into a show with a magnifying glass looking for flaws you will find them in literally everything. Nitpicking is an art form after all. Not all "criticisms" are magically valid. It is the writer's fault for respecting the viewers honestly. They should've realized that people nowadays need to be spoon-fed everything. They can't connect the dots themselves or realize the obvious. They should've realized that some of the viewers' fav past time is tiktoks with no attention span. They should've taken far longer to convey simple things that could be done in a short time span. I appreciate your word vomit man. But keep crying tho. It makes me feel better about myself.
so slowly I start understanding why Cait behaved this way... I still don't think the producers actually did a good job showing us that. Cait had too little scenes in act 2. I wish we could see more her hasitation and doubting or even just following Ambessa...
@@lockekappa500 could be but it was still not satisfying, was it? It feels to me that Cait betraying Ambessa could be a very cool character moment but it felt more like a random moment and that's a shame!
@@yaibanoutsukushii I dunno, didn't feel random at all to me. Felt like all the little things that were coming into place finally payed off. Her talk with Maddie. Her finding out someone from PILTOVER is who Singed is, and something she could potentially turn into. And then the final nail in the coffin was seeing Vi, and finding out that Vander all along was her father. Remember, we still don't know if she's ok with Jinx, and Jinx was her #1 goal this entire time. Not Ambessa, not the fight between Piltover and Zaun.
@@lockekappa500 interesting. So I'm not completely convinced but I do think this is the way the makers intended it to be. What I appreciate is that is episode 5 I think Cait and Ambessa are practicing hand to hand combat. There Cait tries to stab Ambessa in the back but ends up being destroyed by her. I mean... you could interpret it that her alone is not enough to win so she needs an ally and Vi would be one to actually win. Thanks for answering anyway!
@@yaibanoutsukushii Don't get me wrong, I do think it wasn't perfect, and them trying to be "sneaky" about it does actually end up making the payoff not as satisfying. I agree there, but honestly this show has so much going on and its done at such a fast pace, I'm just impressed they get the character work done that they do, even if it can be very subtle in places.
People just can't keep up with good writing. They've been fed with works full of DEI hires and pre-written scripts so when they saw Caitlyn rising to power they just assumed she would become a meme character or a "dictator" for no reason. Caitlyn knew full well what was going on with Ambessa from the start, she simply had no reason not to seize power when it was given to her on a plate, who was she gonna give it to if not herself ? Ambessa ? Salo ? Good luck with that Arcane writers simply aren't the "hurr durr cops = bad" type of people, they understand every character has complexity, and obviously Caitlyn was gonna turn at the first occasion because she was always closer to Vi/Jayce than Ambessa, a litteral warmongering foreigner. She worked with Ambessa because it was the only person available in power at the time. Doesn't mean she can't grow and learn from her either, since Ambessa knows her stuff and has experience. Cait simply kept her enemy close
Caitlyn seemed to have a change of heart , calling Zaunites animals , gasing people , being more violent in interrogating criminals , hitting VI etc ... now she had an another change of heart and being suspicious of Ambessa . It is way too messy.
@@DianaDonineaux I'm not sure if a change of heart is the best way to describe it honestly, she was clouded by her grief at the moment and the pain of blaming her mother's death on herself. I believe the actions she took in Act 1 were not the actions of a stable person; they were very rash and seemed unlike the true Caitlyn we ment in season 1 but I feel like the audience is missing the that these characters are complex and not one-dimensional. Things that she said or did in moments of anger don't fully contextualize her character. I hope Act 3 divides in a bunch more of this and we find out from Cait why she truly betrayed Ambessa.
This season does feel rushed to me. But Caitlyn and Vi teaming up again, I never had a problem with. Caitlyn and Vi had always had a connection and Caitlyn has clearly expressed her mistrust of Ambessa. That particular scene worked for me. But I do wish we had seen more of dictator Caitlyn rather than having that arc for her sped through by another song montage
i wanted to see cold, distant, ruthless Caitlyn SO BAD and i wanted to see her get HUMBLED TO ALL HELL from it and dig her way up from rock bottom, but i think that would take a whole other set of 3 episodes lmao.
![ทุกครั้งที่หลับตา (Lucid Dream) - AYLA's [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4i1OBAQyv58/mqdefault.jpg)
So i made a short that better and more concisely puts into words what im trying to defend here, but if you wanna watch me fumble the words out in this unscripted, by all means! But heres a link to the short to save you time: th-cam.com/video/OGLOlLac0vQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VnddEWGet_gx2BUW
I think you are right, we underestimated Caitlyn, we thought she became a dictator, but she never cared about that, its just that she has this intense hate for Jinx, thats it, she doesnt want war at all, and we can see her clashing with Ambessa in the beginning of episode 4 when Maddie is there. Its Caitlyn using Ambessa, not the other way around. Caitlyn used Ambessa to gain power in her search for Jinx, and she used Ambessa to train her in close combat. Ambessa says it herself "...or maybe I underestimated you". She definitely did, and so did we.
@Blue_nip exactly! And I love that she says this to her in regards to her lack of brutality, just trying to manipulated her again using the death of her mom, but she didn't truly believe she underestimated her at all. In Ambessas mind, she reads Caitlyn like a book, not knowing that book is more fiction than factual.
Literally what ive been saying!
It is certainly an interesting theory. I hope it ends being true. Especially as we see that Cait says to Maddie that she has learned a lot from Ambessa. And I’m sure she implied more than the hand-to-hand combat. Essentially we keep forgetting that Cait is a young adult. Yes she was an enforcer but that in no way prepared her to become a sole commander of the whole city at this age. When suddenly put in the leadership spot, her only choices were to either adapt like it was mentioned in the video or to let Ambessa choose some other pawn and risk situation getting out of hand and her having no control over it. She for sure has grown tremendously from this experience and was able to use Ambessa’s army and experience to establish a tentative control over the undercity. As everyone pointed out, she most likely has become very wary of Ambessa pretty early into their “mentorship”. Cait looking pretty serious, maybe even upset, in the montage of “Paint the Town Blue” could be related to her stress of disagreeing/being burdened by Ambessa’s tactics but not being able to voice them out loud or do anything alone. And she is so… lonely this season and has no one to go to. Jayce, Mel, Vi, her mother - people that she relied on emotionally and who could advise her were all gone or pushed away. No wonder she relied on Maddie for comfort and Ambessa for advice.
And the last thing to point out when it comes to the intense hate that she had for Jinx. I think that hatred has actually mellowed. It was extremely intense during her grieving period, during the days of her mother’s funeral, which made her more emotional. But after 6-7 months that passed, her resolve to arrest Jinx seems to be there, but it maybe no longer hatred driven but rather just logical at this point. Jinx is always that wild card that brings destruction and danger to Piltover, and naturally Cait can’t rest till she deals with her. But a huge sign that Caitlyn might be forgiving Jinx on a personal level is Ambessa’s words saying “maybe I underestimated you, maybe you have the strength to forgive and trust in tomorrow”, as well as her relatively calm but surprised reaction to Jinx in ep6 when she just said “You 😮” when Jinx hugged Warwick.
One detail I love is that when Caitlyn asks Vi what she's doing there Vi replies "trying to save my dad" and that's the last scene we see get cut off before its revealed later Caitlyn betrayed Ambessa.
She made an active choice to help Vi not lose a parent. Even though the Undercity took her mother away from her, she makes an active choice to Vi, a Zaunite, get their parent back. Its such an interesting catalyst to get her to change her mind. And that's not mentioning how seeing Singed become a horrible person because of his obssession with saving his daughter made her see that her obsession with avenging her mom leads down a dark path.
@c.ccarlhead5744 another incredible parallel, i love it!
Never doubted my girl. She's always been not only intelligent, but very emotionally intelligent. Even if she let her emotions get the better of her in Act 1, like you said, she's not stupid. Not someone who can be easily manipulated.
I can't wait for Act 3, the brain worms never rest. Thank you for the ultra brained takes.
Exactly, she had a good upbringing. Despite having a weak moment (or 3) it would have been crazy for the show to throw away all of her character development over 10+ episodes and say she's this war hungry dictator. It just doesn't fit. If anything I think it's so creative of the writers to make CAIT the one that was using Ambessa.
Honestly? I feel like anyone who says the turnaround for Caitlyn was rushed just wasn't paying attention to her arc at all
Setting aside the points you made and the doubts Cait was already showing in episode 4, her ENTIRE SIDE PLOT in episode 5 was her starting off furious, thinking Singed and Warwick are just one more example of the "perverse abominations" Zaun produces and that maybe the solution is to start allowing even worse punishment for prisoners than she has been so far, but then instead of just assuming this to be correct and moving forward, she goes back to her roots as a detective and actually investigates the truth of the situation
And what happens? First, she discovers that Ambessa has been making deals with scientists behind her back, including one as monstrous as Singed. And second, she learns that Singed isn't from Zaun at all! He is a once respected Piltovan who has been tormenting innocent citizens of the undercity for decades now, poisoning and torturing them and turning them into monsters. Even Shimmer, the dangerous Zaunite weapon she spent all of act 1 trying to eliminate, was actually not their creation but something he inflicted on them
Then she discovers that all of that pain and death he caused was motivated by love for a deceased family member, just like all of her own worst decisions, and she has to ask herself... if I continue down this path, is this who I'm going to become? Someone who will do ANYTHING for their goals and has no sympathy for the Zaunites? Who sees them as less than human, like Singed who constantly refers to them as "subjects" and "catalysts" and stuff, not people? Which I think directly informs everything she does in episode 6
Damn I didn't even realize that last part... Of course her finding out that this "monster", as she put it, was doing all that for the sake of a loved one that passed away, just like she was doing, would make her rethink some things.
I needed this perspective so much, I actually didn't realize she realized that Singed was from Piltover, I was so caught up on the name reveal. This show NEVER loses track of who it's characters are, I love it.
I think you nailed it with this
You hella cooked with this vid. I also agreed that it wasn't rushed. I put full trust in the writers that they know what they're doing.
The full complete reasoning behind Caitlin's shift
1. She caught Ambessa two times having a meeting with singed, Ambessa didn't tell her they made a deal.
In Ep 5 when Caitlin comes in you can see both Ambessa and Singed weren't expecting her and she says "general" to Ambessa with that look and tone.
In Ep 6 when Cait goes to report Vi its makes it seem like Cait interrupted a meeting between Ambessa and singed again, She is the commander, Ambessa has no right to look at her like that and she doesn't respect her. Ambessa calls her "Caitlyn" instead of Commander when she comes into the tent. You can see the looks between Ambessa, singed and Rictus reflect this.
1.5 in Ep 5 she Caitlyn say's "Id begun to think we might finally see an end to Zaun's perverse abominations", she thinks it was Zaun that did this but later she finds out it was a Piltover scientist.
2. She realizes she is becoming like singed.
Thanks to the Kiramman vault Cait realizes that singed is a Piltover scientist using Zaun as a test lab, and the reason for all of this? Love, this is the point she recognizes the path she's going down.
3. Training with Ambessa
When training with Ambessa, Ambessa says might/ power aloud but Caitlyn says "too much power and you could leave an opening" inside her head, she is still going against Ambessa.
When Ambessa starts to walk away with her back turned to Cait, Cait attacks her foreshadowing her betrayal later on.
4. Literally any conversation between Cait and Ambessa, Cait is always pushing back.
5. When Rictus walked up to Hutch you could see Ambessa eyes where still and tunnel visioned while Caits were jittery and she glanced over to Ambessa, she is not certain about this decision. When Ambessa let Singed walk into Viktor's camp you can see that Cait has an angry expression, she knows that Ambessa trusts Singed that much.
6. Cait doesn't want Vi's "Father" dead or used as a weapon or experimented on, She also knows that Vi already experienced the death of her father before from S1, she doesn't want to see Vi like that and she now knows what it feels like to loose a parent. This is the last point that lead to Cait betraying Ambessa.
This is all that I could gather right now/ remember but there could be more I'm missing or I haven't caught onto.
Really well put together
i love this analysis, it proves Caitlyn to be much more trustworthy character, whereas i was of the mind that she is incredibly smart and meticulous, but more inclined to selfish pursuits, (i considered she may have wanted to manipulate Vi and use Vander as a weapon herself against Ambessa), maybe it really is out of true respect for Vi and her healing family. im clearly just overly cynical
The problem is that people called her a dictator and wanted her to be a dictator, but that was never her MO.
I think the only thing the writers got wrong was overestimating the competency of the viewers.
I feel like the first scene with cait in act 2 shows how she doesnt like the methods they are using and thinks its gone too far, the only reason she kept going is she was blinded by revenge on jinx
I just realised that Ambessa's line about filling a vacuum could be a callback to what Vi said in ep1: "the hole gets smaller but you never fill it" so no matter who tried to help caitlyn move on, there was still a Vi shaped hole in her heart
I think you’re right. Imo Caitlyn was manipulated by Ambessa in the first 3 episodes. However during the last 3 episodes Caitlyn has had time to cool off and has realised that she’s taken things too far, and that she has been manipulated by Ambessa. I think during the last three episodes Caitlyn was going to make move against Ambessa even if Vi hadn’t appeared.
People who think scenes like this are rushed aren't truly paying attention to the character development and progression that is happening under the subtext of this show.
I think Caitlyn is intelligent enough to figure out her team is in the wrong when Ambessa is planning an attack on a pacifist community. It took her some time, but I think the fact her change of heart isn't written on the script is not bad writing, it's a conclusion she came to within herself and the lack of need to have a monologue or something of her explaining why she's turning on Ambessa to side with Vi. I agree with what you said that she was grieving, she was also not actively going to the undercity after Jinx and instead being stuck in piltover performing her duties of warlord. I'm not saying she's innocent, she definitelly knew the inforcers were being violent, but with her judgement clouded by her need to get revenge on her mother's death it's easier to justify her own actions or lack there of
Shes truly such a complex character, the writers have said that they base the stories in arcane off of individual impossible choices, making us, the viewers just as engaged with the rights and wrongs of everything the characters are presented with and what they end up choosing. its always so gray and never black and white. incredible.
My issue was that every time she talks about the citizens of Zaun, she dehumanizes them. It's coming from a place of grief, but it's still blind hate. When the memorial is attacked, she called them "animals." She didn't say *Jinx* was an animal, even though Jinx is obviously the object of her rage, but instead she gave a blanket statement. She let loose the Grey on the Undercity, again showing that she was perfectly willing to compromise the lives of those in the Undercity for the sake of getting Jinx. She offered the badge to Vi as a chance to try and prove that she was an exception to what Cait sees as the typical citizens of Zaun. Then later she tells Vi, "I thought you were different." She wasn't talking about different from her sister, that comparison had never been used the whole season. She was saying she thought Vi was different from the others of the Undercity. Finally, she remarks about the "abominations" of the Undercity. This can be litteral, since simmer soldiers are kinda monsters of a sort, but the disdain in her voice, and her presumption that "well of course it came from the Undercity" means she didn't expect better of that place or its people.
To me, this, plus her actions as a leader, add up to her having a serious prejudice against the people of Zaun, or at the very least a casual disregard for their lives when hunting down Jinx.
So while I might buy that she was aware of being manipulated and was looking for an opening to turn the tables on Ambessa, I don't think playing a dictator and oppressing an entire city of people was somehow part of the act. That's why her flipping after running into Vi again felt weird to me. She views the people of Zaun as second class citizens, wants Jinx dead more than anything, and was disgusted by the carnage Warwick had done to the guards of stillwater prison. Suddenly she's going to reverse her opinion of Zaunites and help rescue Vander, after figuring out it was him at stillwater? It seems slightly off that she would simply give him a pass just because he's Vi's dad, seeing as how she tried giving Vi's sister a pass and lost her mother for it. Why would one be ok, but the other wouldn't? Why hate all of Zaun, or at least be indifferent about them, but stick her neck out for her Ex's wolf dad? Why focus so heavily on law and order "for the sake of peace", but then throw out the rulebook just to help one creature?
Don't get me wrong, I was glad to see them working together again. I think the show is still amazing. I could even rationalize that Vi might have told Cait that Vander wasn't in control of his actions at stillwater and needs help, not punishment. Maybe that could even explain how Cait would conclude that Ambessa wanting to collect him as a weapon was a step too far and took this opportunity to derail Ambessa's plans, but I had to do that lifting myself. I have no way to know for sure that's what's going on.
@ShockArcl1te yess. When she was saying all those gross sweeping terms about Zaun i was reminded of the Obi wan quote "only a sith deals in absolutes" 😂 so while we the viewers weren't ready for the sudden team up, and seemingly vi was, i really really hope to see some serious humbling on Caitlyns part in this next act. Preferably from Vi, being that she was at one point the one that was "different" than the rest, but no longer. This redemption arc needs to be ASTRONOMICAL
Once u said that she did not want to be a dictator - which is very visible in the animation, everything else made sense!
People think Caitlyn became a dictator, but nothing shows that, not even the end of Part 1. Ambassa explains it to Vi when she thought Vi was tied up in episode 6: without Vi, Ambassa used Caitlyn's hatred for Jinx, but without Jinx being around (and instead, her being in hiding not wanting anything to do with Silco's revolution), Caitlyn became manipulatable to Ambassa because of the anger of Jinx killing Caitlyn's mother. But as stated above without Jinx around, Caitlyn started thinking more clearly the more time had passed. What was left was a girl who was now seemingly in Ambessa's dictator-ship army. Viewers see at the beginning of episode four how untrue that is, and how much Caitlyn doesn't believe in Ambassa's dictator-ship rule. With all this in mind, it's understandable why the word, "Cupcake" had Caitlyn betraying Ambassa in the moment. Vi and Caitlyn still have a lot to talk about, but that moment wasn't the time. Not all of this includes what was in the video and what I've seen other people in the comments write.
You know you have a masterpiece when people demand more world details.
But it's the holes in the story that are either implied or very subtle that make discussions like this so fun (and makes them exist in the first place!) So I dunno, I think Arcane is genius in the way it tells its story, even if it can feel a bit rushed and full of time skips.
@@lockekappa500 I hard agree! I've never been this engaged in a piece of media or its community quite like this before. This is how we SHOULD feel when we consume great stories!
i was also left after this episode feeling unsatisfied with how caitlyn was written but i really enjoyed hearing your take on it and i hope you are right in that i was underestimating caitlyn and the writers 🤧
agree!
I think she had been waiting for a way to match the wrath of Ambessa for a while, and Vi having ties with Warwick may have been that confidence she needed. The fear that Ambessa showed about Warwick i think mirrors the fear that Ambessa perceives from the black rose about acquiring hex tech. She sees that it scares her like nothing else has and immediately makes that her next goal, saving Warwick from Singed.
thanks for the analysis!! i felt the same but came around... i always knew cait wasnt gonna be a dictator, i just wanted to see her work through rage and grief and see her vengefulness for jinx die down more naturally.
the "mistake" here wasnt how caitlyn was written but by how little we got to see from her perspective. shes an emotionally closed off character so u cant trust to see what she thinks clearly if u dont show us her perspective more overtly. but i agree with what u said, yet again we underestimated her...
This is completely unrelated but you could 300% do asmr videos with your soft and comforting voice
@centripetal6157 that's so funny to me, thank you 😊 I've always been told my voice is annoying 😂 it's probably more palletable here because I have roommates and I'm speaking quietly 😂
I’m praying for a flashback to show her inner turmoil. Not expecting it…but hopeful. Love your take on this. Also if you see the look on Cait’s face when she’s putting the lantern at the monument to her mom…a councillor, you can see she’s deep in thought, knowing what she’s doing is a plan, she’s playing a role. Wouldn’t abandon what her mother died for.
Amanda Overton did say that we'll get a reveal about her alliance with Ambessa, so it seems we can expect something that will put this decision into more context!
I just wanted a Dark Caitlyn vs Jinx one on one shootout. Doubtful we'll get it in these last 3 episodes lolz
Ambessa knew she had to keep Caitlyn well away from Vi. As soon as they got back together it would be over, as it proved.
I saw a comment that really made it click for me, and it all comes down to Singed. When she met Singed, at first, it was just another zaunite going rogue and doing something violent. But when she does her investigation, she finds out that he is actually a poltovan. A piltovan inacting violence to zaunite in the name of "love". Just like she is. Having this realization, I think showed her how she could turn out if she follows this path. And the final nail in the coffin is when Vi shows up. On top of that, she never really trusted Ambessa + you had Maddie telling her that she could end this war she created with Zaun, so she was already having doubts about this. So yeah, I don't believe she "flipped on a dime" either. Maybe it happened quickly. For sure, but yeah, it was well thought out and the seeds were there to be picked up on.
@@princeollie1022 the SEEEDS ITS ALWAYS THE DAMN SEEEEDS!
In my opinion Cairlyn wanted to learn from Ambessa . How she is, how she think, how she fight etc. Because she stoped trusting her and knew that one day she will have to face her.
Also because of this one line which Vi says "so much for happy reunion" I somehow do not think there will be happy ending for Vi & Cait. And that makes me sad :(
I was also super disappointed when I first watched part 2. I hated Caitlyn's arc and the plan at the end of episode 6. I thought the witting was bad and that they simplified Caitlyn's arc to fit the length of the show. I had the time to read the comments and see people's reaction.
Regarding her personality, I think you've nailed it. She learned her lessons, she knows she can't solve this alone. Ambessa is a formidable opponent. Even Mel, someone who knows how her mother works and who has decades of experience, couldn't keep up with her. What struck me is how badly she interrogated Singed. Cait has shows time and time again that she's a master at communicating. Her interactions with Ekko under the tree is a perfect exemple : he starts the conversation being super hostile but ends up doing exactly what she wants. With Singed, it's the exact opposite : she gains nothing and leaves. But she had planned for this and got what she wanted : Ambessa took the bait and struck a deal with Singed. The scene in Singed lab also irritated me. She acted like a teenager who can't control her emotions, pointing her gun at Singed and calling him a monster was so cringe. I was also surprised Ambessa didn't react but I think it's the reaction Caitlyn hoped for. Caitlyn is constantly making empty statements like "why is peace always used to justify violence ?" and I think it's on purpose, to lower Ambessa's guard. She thinks Cait is completely lost and that's why she's training her. And I'm pretty sure she talks a little bit too much during those training sessions, giving Cait valuable information.
Regarding the plan in episode 6, I think it looks like Cait does it because she's so in love with Vi but I think it's a manipulation too. She just wanted to neutralize Singed while giving her the possibility to pretends she just wanted to save her GF's father. She also didn't wanted to give hints to Vi about what's really happening. Also, she had no reason to think Jinx was there. Cait was knocked out before she appeared and her gun was in Ambessa's tent. Even if she wanted (and I doubt she does), she had no way to kill Jinx.
While writting this comment, I just realized something. If true, Cait has 200 IQ. We'll see Saturday.
@Morbacounet good catch on the interrogation style! Whipping out the gun just to persue the line of questioning is absolutely insane behavior, your right, its all likely to make Ambessa believe shes still unstable.
And yea she for sure knew she couldn't take on jinx after watching the Noxan guy get flung out of the greenhouse for attacking Jinx, but I think she may have been more inclined to hold Vi back from saving Jinx when Isha sacrificed herself if she had been in the same state we had left her off at. She's more meticulous now though and maybe just the slightest inkling of empathy at the vision of a family (or maybe it's all just to use that family, we'll see). But mostly she's a sharp shooter through and through, she's gonna hit the target she's aiming at if she 'has the shot' and the moment she tackled Vi, she had the shot on Ambessa so to speak.
I think it could've been better with a bit more time. And by that, I mean just a handful of scenes, not an entire episode. Same thing with Jayce before his big moment.
That said, everything still tracks. This isn't a GoT S8 situation, where people just shift personalities and motivations on a dime (at least I hope not).
Edit: didn't know Jayce would get half an entire episode to his state-of-mind, so lemme just take that bit back
Totally bookmarking this for later after I've watched it. It's gotta be good if you make a 10 min video about it 😮
@seffinspace LMFAOOO this is just one scene man, I've been doing this exact shit in dms with dp for literally all others scenes DEADASSS
As much as people don't like their relationship, it seems Maddie has been instrumental in helping Cait regain her humanity and wake up to how Ambessa has been using her grief to manipulate her. As you say, Cait's smart and knew she'd got herself into a precarious position with Ambessa and didn't have the necessary elements available to take on her directly, until a certain 'angry oil slick' fell at her feet and called her Cupcake.
It felt rushed to me at times.
Episodes 6-9 sooilers below:
For example, we didn't see Mel's reaction to learning that Jayce vanished from this world, nor did we see her grieve. Another example is hearing Vi giving her input on Isha's sacrifice, they must have at least talked a little when they were on their way to Viktor's community at the bottom of the undercity, also from episode 5, we know that she finds out she was important to Jinx.
Hm, the thing is... It all makes perfect sense on paper, in the steril confides of writers room, when we analyse the shit out those moments, when people say things that were said while planning out the season, the vision is quite obvious. Like look at the cinematography (they stand strong there, can't argue), little symbolism here, a bit of parallel there. It's sure fun to watch (its Arcane after all), but it feels the way it feels because we still lack those extra moments and scenes that could fill the gaps in the whole. It becomes a problem when it creates the progression of the story feel artificial and unnatural.
In terms of what was discussed here. I think the problem never truly was that Cait turned on Ambessa but how it happened. We see her being constantly at odds with Medarda, she does not trust her, we know that she will not stay at her side for long. But we don't really see Caitlyn actually do anything against Ambessas will until she met Vi again. She is just there, in the background. Standing... menacingly 😂
Furthermore, it feels weird the way CaitVi met and start to work tgt again, not without a reason. They coincidentally stumble on each other, The Commander of Nations Martial Law was not protected in a tent deep within armies safety, doing some low rank soldiers job. Caitlyn protected Singed from the outsider/stalker, she was very much still on the side of helping Singed get to 'the beast' and weaponize him, at that point. Or she didn't know how to proceed, but we could get sth with her trying to put off the inevitable. She knows about the mad scientist there, and does nothing about it. CaitVi banter... Okay... There is no tension in that scene besides sexual tension *wiggles eyebrows violently*, no moment/frame that could suggest that they broke up on bad terms, after the end of Act1 that's just disrespectful 😂
For me rn, the biggest missed opportunity this Act2 is relationship between The Commander and The General. Especially knowing that Arcane operates on connection and familial bonds. Since their first scene they don't trust and respect each other. They just put on a show. They act as those two company co-founders, that both are doing some business on the side, without the knowledge what exactly the other is doing, waiting to leave but still kinda hold afloat the mess they made together and at the same time are perfectly aware that both them and their 'partner' will be jumping ships the moment the opportunity arises. The are no stakes, no real conflict there. I didn't like that Ambessa suggests that she filled hole after Vi left(unless we speak about Maddie) not the more important mother sized gap. Because interactions between Ambessa and Caitlyn speak for themself, that the heck she did not fill nada. We were robbed of the mother-daughter rs, that would create some real conflict for Cait and/or even Ambessa, and her refusing to betray such an obvious threat in the form of Medardas character for so long. You know the wolf and the fox child she desired, the listening and suporting parent that Cait never saw in Cassandra. Like it was right there! But it would require time, that could not be afforded, for we had to have the more important VVP family plotline to see. That made the turning fell flat.
Overall, writers and animators are obviously amazing. We feel the fuzziness, giddiness, the hype, the sadness of characters getting together, their sacrifices etc, because that's cinetamography for ya. Every scene is made for you to feel a certain way, that's how that works. Oh, and my little rant at producers this season, you cannot just throw a slick montage at everyhing you don't care to make a time for, no matter how sick music and animation is, it can never replace a genuine storytelling and dialogue.
Okay, seeing some comments, I don't like people suggesting that others cannot comprehend the storytelling because reasons. Many just see the flaws. It looks spectacular when you are all the way zoomed in into the datails and analyse every brush stroke in an art piece, you start to see the cracks in the whole only after you take two steps back and look at it from the distance.
Great video btw, loved and absolutely agree with your takes and points. Medarda was not taking Caitlyn seriously and it's hopefully gonna bite her in her sexy, Noxian butt. Waiting for Act3, don't know what to expect. We'll see how well the story will be concluded, i believe they'll do it nearly and respectfully, some detail just going to be rocky but I am hopeful
@hatexson Wow, this is my favorite comment so far. I completely agree. That's the thing about the music videos and and time skips, is that while it's beautiful and touching and I'm literally probably going make the isha and jinx dance my desktop background, it's definitely being more utilized in this season to tell the viewer why the moment is important, as opposed to in the first season, I'm thinking of the fight on the bridge with jinx and ekko, the music video was incredible and mostly was there just to give symbolism to the fight, with the firelight behind ekko and the raven behind jinx and such. (Also love that this season her symbol on the mural is now instead, a white dove) that one was pinnacle arcane MV imo, the one to show vi and powder growing up in water color was so sweet, so was the isha flashbacks, but felt a bit more like -hey yall, best start cryin now-
And yea some people aren't really being very forgiving to the folks that don't see the writers intention IMMEDIATELY lmao. None of us are truly going to grasp the full scope at this point, especially when there's 3 more episodes to go! But the discussions besides that are like... so fun.. wtf.. I've never been so in awe of a singular communities ability to analyze and be creative JUST because it's fun to do so. Arcane isn't just for super viewers with extreme analysis powers, it's for people who just wanna watch a stunning collaborative piece of art that hundreds of people so clearly loved creating.
Here's to act 3! I'm ready to be emotionally wrecked!
@hatexson >I don't like people suggesting that others cannot comprehend the storytelling because reasons
You don't like it because they are correct. When you go into a show with a magnifying glass looking for flaws you will find them in literally everything. Nitpicking is an art form after all. Not all "criticisms" are magically valid. It is the writer's fault for respecting the viewers honestly. They should've realized that people nowadays need to be spoon-fed everything. They can't connect the dots themselves or realize the obvious. They should've realized that some of the viewers' fav past time is tiktoks with no attention span. They should've taken far longer to convey simple things that could be done in a short time span. I appreciate your word vomit man. But keep crying tho. It makes me feel better about myself.
so slowly I start understanding why Cait behaved this way... I still don't think the producers actually did a good job showing us that. Cait had too little scenes in act 2. I wish we could see more her hasitation and doubting or even just following Ambessa...
I think it was meant to be a surprise reveal, something you go "oh yeah I see it now' moreso than something they were leading up to.
@@lockekappa500 could be but it was still not satisfying, was it? It feels to me that Cait betraying Ambessa could be a very cool character moment but it felt more like a random moment and that's a shame!
@@yaibanoutsukushii I dunno, didn't feel random at all to me. Felt like all the little things that were coming into place finally payed off. Her talk with Maddie. Her finding out someone from PILTOVER is who Singed is, and something she could potentially turn into. And then the final nail in the coffin was seeing Vi, and finding out that Vander all along was her father. Remember, we still don't know if she's ok with Jinx, and Jinx was her #1 goal this entire time. Not Ambessa, not the fight between Piltover and Zaun.
@@lockekappa500 interesting. So I'm not completely convinced but I do think this is the way the makers intended it to be. What I appreciate is that is episode 5 I think Cait and Ambessa are practicing hand to hand combat. There Cait tries to stab Ambessa in the back but ends up being destroyed by her. I mean... you could interpret it that her alone is not enough to win so she needs an ally and Vi would be one to actually win.
Thanks for answering anyway!
@@yaibanoutsukushii Don't get me wrong, I do think it wasn't perfect, and them trying to be "sneaky" about it does actually end up making the payoff not as satisfying. I agree there, but honestly this show has so much going on and its done at such a fast pace, I'm just impressed they get the character work done that they do, even if it can be very subtle in places.
People just can't keep up with good writing. They've been fed with works full of DEI hires and pre-written scripts so when they saw Caitlyn rising to power they just assumed she would become a meme character or a "dictator" for no reason. Caitlyn knew full well what was going on with Ambessa from the start, she simply had no reason not to seize power when it was given to her on a plate, who was she gonna give it to if not herself ? Ambessa ? Salo ? Good luck with that
Arcane writers simply aren't the "hurr durr cops = bad" type of people, they understand every character has complexity, and obviously Caitlyn was gonna turn at the first occasion because she was always closer to Vi/Jayce than Ambessa, a litteral warmongering foreigner. She worked with Ambessa because it was the only person available in power at the time. Doesn't mean she can't grow and learn from her either, since Ambessa knows her stuff and has experience. Cait simply kept her enemy close
Caitlyn seemed to have a change of heart , calling Zaunites animals , gasing people , being more violent in interrogating criminals , hitting VI etc ... now she had an another change of heart and being suspicious of Ambessa . It is way too messy.
@@DianaDonineaux I'm not sure if a change of heart is the best way to describe it honestly, she was clouded by her grief at the moment and the pain of blaming her mother's death on herself. I believe the actions she took in Act 1 were not the actions of a stable person; they were very rash and seemed unlike the true Caitlyn we ment in season 1 but I feel like the audience is missing the that these characters are complex and not one-dimensional. Things that she said or did in moments of anger don't fully contextualize her character. I hope Act 3 divides in a bunch more of this and we find out from Cait why she truly betrayed Ambessa.
you said it so well. most people they to antagonize her sm simply because they refuse to understand her character.
This season does feel rushed to me. But Caitlyn and Vi teaming up again, I never had a problem with. Caitlyn and Vi had always had a connection and Caitlyn has clearly expressed her mistrust of Ambessa. That particular scene worked for me. But I do wish we had seen more of dictator Caitlyn rather than having that arc for her sped through by another song montage
i wanted to see cold, distant, ruthless Caitlyn SO BAD and i wanted to see her get HUMBLED TO ALL HELL from it and dig her way up from rock bottom, but i think that would take a whole other set of 3 episodes lmao.