Best topic yet! For anyone interested in upmixing 2ch to front wides, older upmixers like Audessy DSX and DTS Neo X will upmix 2ch with front wides. For newer upmixers DTS Neural X is really the only option for upmixing 2ch up to 7.1 with front wides . You can also layer DTS Neural X on top of DTS X for front wides but you cannot layer DTS Neural X on top of Dolby Atmos. Some very high end processors will support front wides with DSU and Atmos but they are rare and expensive.
My SONY STR DN-1020 does an absolutely amazing job of upmixingba 2.0 sound input to surround sound. It doesn't play the same sound on all speakers it separates the audio as if it's actual 5.1. For instance if I'm watching something in stereo with a helicopter passing from front to back I hear the helicopter coming from behind then faded to the front speakers
Thanks for the video. I love watching stuff like this where I know I'll understand it but another random person would never know what any of this means.
Damn’it! Can’t believe I missed this! Glad you guys have it uploaded! Amazing content per usual Gene! I just recently went full 7.4.6 but have been debating switching to 9.4.4. Either way what an absolutely outstanding interview, you never fail to deliver my friend.
Great to see Roger’s slide praising Auro 3D and Auromatic upmixing at the 41:06 mark. One of the limitations not mentioned with Auromatic vs DSU vs DTS:X when up mixing two channel audio is the inclusion of the TM left & right channels with Dolby & DTS. -Auro 3D will leave those two channels out in a 7 surrounds . 2 subs. 6 heights configuration while upmixing. However we still prefer Auromatic over the other two upmixers (most but not all of the time) mainly for two reasons. 1. The bass is more hard hitting. There is no denying this while switching between the decoders on countless source material comparisons. 2. Auromatic sounds the most natural while still staying true to the artist’s intent for our ears. This is subjective of course but Roger said it best at the 38:30 mark..”It’s all about what I like to hear my audio do. There’s no shortage of opinions on that.” Thanks for doing the interview GD.
I love pro dolby pro logic .music setting in my 5.1 surround. Depending on the original mix im often blown away by the surround effect. It creates space between the instruments with the lead vocals front and centre as they should be. I just close my eyes and the soundstage envelops me... stereo seems bland and constricted by comparison. I find dolby pro logic movie setting good for stereo 2 track movies. I need nothing else. Easily pleased. 😀
THANK YOU again for the reminders to hit like... some of us are older. LOL God I just love the nerdy stuff you graciouslly allow us to get into on your channel. Having this Icon of Dolby lineage gave us such a backgrounder on Dolby's formats was just beautiful. Maybe there's a DTS guy whose brain we could also pick some day? You could feasibly get Wilfried Van Baelan to suss out his formats strengths and handicaps, he's been on other TH-cam vid channels. I kinda wonder what effect COVID seclusion has had overall on streaming, CES, home theatring in last 2 years. I suspect it has saved home entertainment from drifting back to atrocious 2 channel phone/tabby lossy theatring . Is there manufacturing data that shows any of that trending? CES marketing data? THX again ole friend for a GREAT interview for the vast permanent Web library. We are all getting older and these valuable histories deserve to be chronicled. :)
I was never a fan of DTS Neo 6. I absolutely love DTS Neo X. And I think DTS Neural X sounds pretty good. My favorite upmixer was from Neural, I believe that a Company called Neural Surround from Kirkland, WA sold out to THX and it was then renamed Neural THX. Then DTS purchased Neural and Named it DTS Neural but I don't think the technology changed until DTS adapted Neural to the newer Neural X to work better with mapping to object based systems.
after getting into surround sound stereo more or less stopped existing for me. I upmix with Nugen Halo, but would love to try out the home market offerings. In the future, surely.
Wow! Roger Freaking Dressler! Damn, Gene! Lucky you! I hope you bought a lottery ticket that day. I could watch this more than a few times. This is an audio lifeblood extravaganza. This is audio manna from Heaven. What more can you say? Trying to explain this stuff to my boss Michael Mann back in 1997 was a no go, even as much as he was interested in music and multitracks for his films. Unfortunate that the person in his life with the most interest and knowledge on Jim Fosgate’s efforts (I owned the Fosgate Model 3 at the time - with Bob’s proprietary 7 channel circuits - powered with multiple Krell Class A KSA 100S’s), was me, his lowly personal assistant. “What do you mean sides and backs? When you’re editing at Todd AO, there are just 5 speakers. There’s no such thing as 7 or 9 speakers in a Cinema!” Don’t get me wrong, Michael was one of the smartest men I’ve ever known or worked for (really nice vocabulary, but overly worked around the edges and his 20 plus year-old BA in English and technical neutering of romance words, were bugs in the otherwise well read nature that all genius draft dodgers involved in the advanced writing arts seemed to have stumbled upon through their daily THC regimen and innate and incessant drive to show their true intellectual stripes [they muse they could go to war with] could get annoying). However, he did have some dated ideas and some of his go to facts (standardized pseudo intellectual de facto dogma, really) facts were decades old. These were passed off as sage crumbs I was to gobble up. I was just a $150 a day kid to him, and that was fine. Ultimately, he thought I was too big for my britches, even though I always stayed quiet through his mistakes and false memories. I was there to help and not biting my tongue or educating him, would have surely gone much worse. But having to shut up about Bob Fosgate, his favorite Westlake Audio studio monitors (the most popular monitors ever known to man - according to him), and many others, drove me nuts. But the Bob denial thing and extra channel upmixes (when I had it fully working at home) I wasn’t permitted to pursue, were the worst. Intellectually stifling at best. Out-of-control-freak asleep at the wheel, was what I really thought. I mean, just look at all the mistakes in his movies. And that terrible ending for Heat that he wrote the entire movie around. Just so inexplicably out of character for Neil, no person that possesses a superior intellect and is a logic based thinker, could ever accept that as realistic in anyway. And Neil hesitates? Basically, Neil was either FOS, or a closet simp that lost his life without even losing the girl because the girl totally and completely corrupted him. All of his basic character traits, were well established, then they got dump trucked like a bad QB (D.H.) walking on the freeway to get gas. Yes it’s supposed to be fantasy. However, suspension of disbelief is supposed to be a goal.
Thanks for this interview. As the inventor of an entirely different surround sound technology I'm always interested in new ideas to see how other people approached the problem.
I love these type of videos I like surround sound I have a Yamaha rx va 6a with klipsch speakers. Are klipsch speakers good? 620f is the model number of the speakers. Keep up the good work I like your videos.
Originally Dolby surround sound was based on five full range channels. Anyone here prefer running all five surrounds full range? I know that’s not the greatest for small spaces but I’m wondering if anybody does 🙋♂️
So I’ve done it a few years ago when I had a dedicated cinema room. I ran all 7 bed layer speakers full range, they were each full range towers with integrated 12” THX select subwoofers. At the time we were limited to Audyssey XT32 so I ended up grabbing a few MiniDSP’s and adding PEQ up to 500hz manually. They were all Snell towers and sounded phenomenal but the amount of time it took to get things sounding right was quite the task.
I mean if all your speakers have 12” subwoofs built in then that’s diff vs what the dude up there is talking about He probably has some rinky dink bookshelf speakers with 4” woofers and he’s running full range Why? Who knows……. 🤷♂️ But we do live in an interesting world 👍
I believe the Trinnov Altitude platform recently got an update to add wide channel support with the Dolby surround upmixer. Not sure if anyone else has this DSU update. Maybe it's something other brands could implement via firmware?
Via firmware? Hahahahahaa lol 😂 Did you just start using AVRs? Why would they do that when they can tout it as being a “new feature” in the next AVR so they can validate charging more $$$ for it 😐
I don't believe Trinnov has released the new DSU update yet that supports Front Wides, select D+M AVRs received the update back in November 2020 & I think JBL Synthesis/Arcam products have the DSU Front Wides upmixing functionality too but there is an issue in the current Atmos decoder version v1.6.2/1.6.3 concerning DSU's Dialog Bleed problem leaking into the surround speakers that has been reduced but not eliminated in v1.6.3 SDK which hopefully Dolby will issue a proper fix in v1.7.2 or the eventual 1.8.x SDK update.
Yamaha v 1.65 update now available for 4K/120 8K/60 and HDR 10+ for A8A, A6A and A4A from 27 April 2022 . Received email from Yamaha Australia today and installed. Sorry might be off topic but many have been waiting for this . From my email : “To enable 4K120 / 8K60 pass through once firmware update is complete you will need to change the ‘HDMI Video Format’ setting to ‘8K mode’. To do so please open the AV receiver’s on-screen menu. Select ‘Video/HDMI’ then ‘HDMI Video Format’ then the ‘HDMI input’ and select the now available ‘8K Mode’.”
first it is 17years of my experience in listening to surround {multichannel]audio, especially stereo upmix to 5.1 format, if it is not relevant to dolby please send or convey this message to whom who are Audio engineering enuthusiastic. what i want to say is, play any stereo music and use dolby surround upmix which is new or dolby prologic ii {movie mode} and hear in 5.1 channel format. now second time please download intervideo windvd 4 [ofcourse it is old version 2003 release] select DSP to ROCK preset and play in dolby prologic ii in your av receiver, you can get immersive audio, expanded stereo image, in surround speakers u can hear pure audio separation with mild echo and delays. if anyone interests please i can share old windvd software[it doesnt open in windows7/10,but there is a tweak i can share how to do-its nothing but need to copy some folders to back ]
end of the day, everyone tries to give their best,[dolby, dts, auro3d, audyssey,dirac] to enhance user/customer experience
This all could be interesting if you explained the myriad of terms that you use. There seems to be a total disregard for those who might be listing. Why do you publish? To attract only the well informed. How may of those listeners do you have? You could re-broadcast this same video for dummies and stop the recording, to explain what you just said. You might find yourself attracting new more viewers, but, maybe you don't need any more???? Ok then, excuse me.
Pro-Logic IIx was wonderful for converting Stereo music to 5.1. Intrigued Roger rates Auro-Matic so highly. WIll definitely consider it now :)
I was surprised by that too. In most cases, I still prefer the DSU w center spread.
RIP Jim Fosgate. The quintessential pioneer of analog surround.
Thank you very much for the Roger Dressler interview. I enjoyed it very much.
Best topic yet! For anyone interested in upmixing 2ch to front wides, older upmixers like Audessy DSX and DTS Neo X will upmix 2ch with front wides. For newer upmixers DTS Neural X is really the only option for upmixing 2ch up to 7.1 with front wides . You can also layer DTS Neural X on top of DTS X for front wides but you cannot layer DTS Neural X on top of Dolby Atmos. Some very high end processors will support front wides with DSU and Atmos but they are rare and expensive.
Coolest interview ever !! Thank you Gene and Roger !!
My SONY STR DN-1020 does an absolutely amazing job of upmixingba 2.0 sound input to surround sound. It doesn't play the same sound on all speakers it separates the audio as if it's actual 5.1. For instance if I'm watching something in stereo with a helicopter passing from front to back I hear the helicopter coming from behind then faded to the front speakers
Too bad the LFE is never the same when upmixed from 2.0 - even though the effects are good, too on my Harman
Thanks for the video. I love watching stuff like this where I know I'll understand it but another random person would never know what any of this means.
Damn’it! Can’t believe I missed this! Glad you guys have it uploaded! Amazing content per usual Gene! I just recently went full 7.4.6 but have been debating switching to 9.4.4. Either way what an absolutely outstanding interview, you never fail to deliver my friend.
Wides are more valuables that overhead 5 and 6.
Yea over the course of a movie there’s def way more content info in wides than heights
Great to see Roger’s slide praising Auro 3D and Auromatic upmixing at the 41:06 mark. One of the limitations not mentioned with Auromatic vs DSU vs DTS:X when up mixing two channel audio is the inclusion of the TM left & right channels with Dolby & DTS. -Auro 3D will leave those two channels out in a 7 surrounds . 2 subs. 6 heights configuration while upmixing. However we still prefer Auromatic over the other two upmixers (most but not all of the time) mainly for two reasons. 1. The bass is more hard hitting. There is no denying this while switching between the decoders on countless source material comparisons. 2. Auromatic sounds the most natural while still staying true to the artist’s intent for our ears. This is subjective of course but Roger said it best at the 38:30 mark..”It’s all about what I like to hear my audio do. There’s no shortage of opinions on that.” Thanks for doing the interview GD.
I love all this stuff soooo much. I hope more people get into this. always love your channel Gene
I love pro dolby pro logic .music setting in my 5.1 surround. Depending on the original mix im often blown away by the surround effect. It creates space between the instruments with the lead vocals front and centre as they should be. I just close my eyes and the soundstage envelops me... stereo seems bland and constricted by comparison. I find dolby pro logic movie setting good for stereo 2 track movies. I need nothing else. Easily pleased. 😀
Wow. Amazing interview. Thanks
THANK YOU again for the reminders to hit like... some of us are older. LOL
God I just love the nerdy stuff you graciouslly allow us to get into on your channel. Having this Icon of Dolby lineage gave us such a backgrounder on Dolby's formats was just beautiful. Maybe there's a DTS guy whose brain we could also pick some day? You could feasibly get Wilfried Van Baelan to suss out his formats strengths and handicaps, he's been on other TH-cam vid channels.
I kinda wonder what effect COVID seclusion has had overall on streaming, CES, home theatring in last 2 years. I suspect it has saved home entertainment from drifting back to atrocious 2 channel phone/tabby lossy theatring . Is there manufacturing data that shows any of that trending? CES marketing data?
THX again ole friend for a GREAT interview for the vast permanent Web library. We are all getting older and these valuable histories deserve to be chronicled.
:)
I was never a fan of DTS Neo 6. I absolutely love DTS Neo X. And I think DTS Neural X sounds pretty good. My favorite upmixer was from Neural, I believe that a Company called Neural Surround from Kirkland, WA sold out to THX and it was then renamed Neural THX. Then DTS purchased Neural and Named it DTS Neural but I don't think the technology changed until DTS adapted Neural to the newer Neural X to work better with mapping to object based systems.
Man this was amazing Gene! Love these awesome informative sessions with industry greats.
Excellent listening! Thanks to both of you!
Thanks Gene and Roger kanaris cyprus
after getting into surround sound stereo more or less stopped existing for me. I upmix with Nugen Halo, but would love to try out the home market offerings. In the future, surely.
Can we talk about how DSU implements Front Wide decoding now that it is supported with the latest update?
Awesome ! All-around ! ....
Wow! Roger Freaking Dressler! Damn, Gene! Lucky you! I hope you bought a lottery ticket that day. I could watch this more than a few times. This is an audio lifeblood extravaganza. This is audio manna from Heaven. What more can you say? Trying to explain this stuff to my boss Michael Mann back in 1997 was a no go, even as much as he was interested in music and multitracks for his films. Unfortunate that the person in his life with the most interest and knowledge on Jim Fosgate’s efforts (I owned the Fosgate Model 3 at the time - with Bob’s proprietary 7 channel circuits - powered with multiple Krell Class A KSA 100S’s), was me, his lowly personal assistant.
“What do you mean sides and backs? When you’re editing at Todd AO, there are just 5 speakers. There’s no such thing as 7 or 9 speakers in a Cinema!”
Don’t get me wrong, Michael was one of the smartest men I’ve ever known or worked for (really nice vocabulary, but overly worked around the edges and his 20 plus year-old BA in English and technical neutering of romance words, were bugs in the otherwise well read nature that all genius draft dodgers involved in the advanced writing arts seemed to have stumbled upon through their daily THC regimen and innate and incessant drive to show their true intellectual stripes [they muse they could go to war with] could get annoying). However, he did have some dated ideas and some of his go to facts (standardized pseudo intellectual de facto dogma, really) facts were decades old. These were passed off as sage crumbs I was to gobble up. I was just a $150 a day kid to him, and that was fine. Ultimately, he thought I was too big for my britches, even though I always stayed quiet through his mistakes and false memories. I was there to help and not biting my tongue or educating him, would have surely gone much worse.
But having to shut up about Bob Fosgate, his favorite Westlake Audio studio monitors (the most popular monitors ever known to man - according to him), and many others, drove me nuts. But the Bob denial thing and extra channel upmixes (when I had it fully working at home) I wasn’t permitted to pursue, were the worst. Intellectually stifling at best. Out-of-control-freak asleep at the wheel, was what I really thought. I mean, just look at all the mistakes in his movies. And that terrible ending for Heat that he wrote the entire movie around. Just so inexplicably out of character for Neil, no person that possesses a superior intellect and is a logic based thinker, could ever accept that as realistic in anyway. And Neil hesitates? Basically, Neil was either FOS, or a closet simp that lost his life without even losing the girl because the girl totally and completely corrupted him. All of his basic character traits, were well established, then they got dump trucked like a bad QB (D.H.) walking on the freeway to get gas. Yes it’s supposed to be fantasy. However, suspension of disbelief is supposed to be a goal.
My God, thank you!! I want to see more of this!!
Thanks for this interview. As the inventor of an entirely different surround sound technology I'm always interested in new ideas to see how other people approached the problem.
Which did you invent?
@@americanidle1277 US Patent 4,332,979. Ignore the first three figures. They relate to a different invention.
Actually i using DPLII Game watching this :D Perfect Center, no cross talk :E
Great episode. Enjoyed it!
I love these type of videos I like surround sound I have a Yamaha rx va 6a with klipsch speakers. Are klipsch speakers good? 620f is the model number of the speakers. Keep up the good work I like your videos.
Originally Dolby surround sound was based on five full range channels. Anyone here prefer running all five surrounds full range? I know that’s not the greatest for small spaces but I’m wondering if anybody does 🙋♂️
So I’ve done it a few years ago when I had a dedicated cinema room. I ran all 7 bed layer speakers full range, they were each full range towers with integrated 12” THX select subwoofers. At the time we were limited to Audyssey XT32 so I ended up grabbing a few MiniDSP’s and adding PEQ up to 500hz manually. They were all Snell towers and sounded phenomenal but the amount of time it took to get things sounding right was quite the task.
I mean if all your speakers have 12” subwoofs built in then that’s diff vs what the dude up there is talking about
He probably has some rinky dink bookshelf speakers with 4” woofers and he’s running full range
Why? Who knows……. 🤷♂️
But we do live in an interesting world 👍
Great interview!
I believe the Trinnov Altitude platform recently got an update to add wide channel support with the Dolby surround upmixer.
Not sure if anyone else has this DSU update. Maybe it's something other brands could implement via firmware?
Via firmware? Hahahahahaa lol 😂
Did you just start using AVRs?
Why would they do that when they can tout it as being a “new feature” in the next AVR so they can validate charging more $$$ for it 😐
I don't believe Trinnov has released the new DSU update yet that supports Front Wides, select D+M AVRs received the update back in November 2020 & I think JBL Synthesis/Arcam products have the DSU Front Wides upmixing functionality too but there is an issue in the current Atmos decoder version v1.6.2/1.6.3 concerning DSU's Dialog Bleed problem leaking into the surround speakers that has been reduced but not eliminated in v1.6.3 SDK which hopefully Dolby will issue a proper fix in v1.7.2 or the eventual 1.8.x SDK update.
This was fun
How to find the best center image setting using rew
Awesome content!
Yamaha v 1.65 update now available for 4K/120 8K/60 and HDR 10+ for A8A, A6A and A4A from 27 April 2022 . Received email from Yamaha Australia today and installed. Sorry might be off topic but many have been waiting for this .
From my email : “To enable 4K120 / 8K60 pass through once firmware update is complete you will need to change the ‘HDMI Video Format’ setting to ‘8K mode’. To do so please open the AV receiver’s on-screen menu. Select ‘Video/HDMI’ then ‘HDMI Video Format’ then the ‘HDMI input’ and select the now available ‘8K Mode’.”
Gene got the guests.
👍
I love my centre spread on my dataset
first it is 17years of my experience in listening to surround {multichannel]audio,
especially stereo upmix to 5.1 format,
if it is not relevant to dolby please send or convey this message to whom who are Audio engineering enuthusiastic.
what i want to say is, play any stereo music and use dolby surround upmix which is new or dolby prologic ii {movie mode} and hear in 5.1 channel format.
now second time please download intervideo windvd 4 [ofcourse it is old version 2003 release] select DSP to ROCK preset and play in dolby prologic ii in your av receiver,
you can get immersive audio, expanded stereo image, in surround speakers u can hear pure audio separation with mild echo and delays.
if anyone interests please i can share old windvd software[it doesnt open in windows7/10,but there is a tweak i can share how to do-its nothing but need to copy some folders to back ]
end of the day, everyone tries to give their best,[dolby, dts, auro3d, audyssey,dirac] to enhance user/customer experience
This all could be interesting if you explained the myriad of terms that you use. There seems to be a total disregard for those who might be listing. Why do you publish? To attract only the well informed. How may of those listeners do you have? You could re-broadcast this same video for dummies and stop the recording, to explain what you just said. You might find yourself attracting new more viewers, but, maybe you don't need any more???? Ok then, excuse me.