I remember it as well, I was a 15 year old kid. The only word that could describe this match is “madness”. I was going crazy when he drew the sheep from the book, unbelievable
This is exactly why everybody isn't legend. All you need to hit legend is a grossly overpowered deck (for which you have a plethera of options) and heres the key: time. With how little skill is involved nowdays you simply cannot sustain a very high winrate and as you might know most people are casual players, with no time and no motivation to grind 8 hours of shaman to hit legend.
***** Because not everyone wants to grind the current meta for 40+ games with a 65% winrate and full deck. That is simply the only answer. Look at the good players out in the world, how they reach legend. All the same.
luck and time. Besides, even if skill is involved, and a deciding factor in making legend, it is not the primary force behind performing well--the game is predominantly luck based, and has been for quite some time (though it wasn't always so over the top with the rng elements)
My Grandfather smoked his whole life. I was about 10 years old when my mother said to him, 'If you ever want to see your grandchildren graduate, you have to stop immediately.'. Tears welled up in his eyes when he realized what exactly was at stake. He gave it up immediately. Three years later he died of lung cancer. It was really sad and destroyed me. My mother said to me- 'Don't ever smoke. Please don't put your family through what your Grandfather put us through." I agreed. At 28, I have never touched a cigarette. I must say, I feel a very slight sense of regret for never having done it, because those text bubbles gave me cancer anyway.
Amnesiac: Draw your last pathetic card so I can end this, Pavel! Pavel: My deck has no pathetic cards, Amnesiac, but it does contain... THE UNSTOPPABLE PAVELING BOOK! Amnesiac: Impossible! No one has ever managed to pull a polymorph off of that card! NOOOOO!
I literally chose to /roll 1-16 as the method for picking my champion to honor RNGesus, and the roll landed on pavel. Coincidence? I think not. Checkmate atheists.
lol i don't even know who to choose .. not following all the player profile .. i don't even know who is this pavel but i choose him ? coincidence? i think not.
I picked Amnesiasc as my champion and only watched the first 3 matches of the that set and was like "Sweet, I'll check the bracket later tonight to see who Amnesiasc is facing later." Checked it and was like "how the fuck?..."
I mean he shouldn't have picked Forbidden Ancient in my Opinion to get better Early Control and not get punished as hard by Sap (One of the fucking best Tempo Cards) but Pavel hat excellent Line-up against Maly-Druid, plays pretty Minion Heavy Decks which could help him against Zoo and Tempo and got a bit lucky but he also got pretty unlucky before. The First Game was purely decided by Rag with the 33% so i don't know he just seemed well prepared for Maly-Druid which is really common like Shaman but he banned Shaman because they also play a lot of strong Minions so he would most likely lose with a lot of his Decks. Pretty good Games overall, sorry for your Loss in Packs ^^'
Pavel permabanned Shaman and made all his decks with the Druid matchup in mind. It was obvious after using the same strategy twice during the course of the same tournament.
Yeah it was the purpose in editing to make the fact he wasn't just purely lucky and is an amazing player that deserved to win as much as any of the top 8. That Babbling Book tho.
Where did you get the 75% win rates from? That is kinda ludicrous considering top players can't even manage that on ladder. The issue is that the better players are not winning consistently. Luck is a part of card games and that is okay, but hearthstone has implemented too much luck into the game for skill to decide the outcome of matches. Take poker for example. The best players in the world do not win every tournament because luck is still an aspect of the game, but they consistently win tournaments over time. You cannot win tournaments consistently in HS and that's why most people cannot take it seriously as something competitive, something that should be based on skill.
***** Yeah, that is Arena. The best players in the world average 7-8 wins, which would put them at about a 75% win rate. In constructed, when you reach the higher ranks, everyone is playing a viable deck, so win rates tend to dip below 75%. My issue is not with Arena or ladder but HS tournaments. I have a lot of respect for top legend players and infinite Arena players. In these type of games, you can measure player abilities based on consistency, not individual matches. But tournaments are decided on series of best of 7, where the sample size for a legend player is over hundreds, maybe thousands of games.
everyone sayin pavel won by luck when all of his rng cards had all the outcomes from worst to best and im sitting here rememberin how firebat got through groups when he missed lethal and his opponent missed lethal aswell
To be honest, i think Pavel had a supreme strategy going into this tournament. He basically analyzed his way to what the strongest decks are (druid and shammy) He then permabanned shammy and constructed all his decks to counter druid. That is not RNG, that is brilliang strategy.
And yes, baffling book giving him poly is lucky, but a few rounds prior to that. his flamewaker had missed rag twice and rag had make a 5/7 hit on the azure drake, so RNG wasnt all in Pavel's favour.
Another Forking Channel he got unlucky that time but this situation is what we call a player is "punished" for not doing a safer play, he could have guarantee kill the rag with fireland portal and his minion that was on the board so he had safer options there. However the play against malygos and thaurissan he had nothing until babbling book saved him só he certainly had a lot more favor grom rng than his opponent
Pavel saw that druid and shaman are the 2 dominant classes in the curent meta, always banned mage and teched fully against malygos shaman. thats why he won the tournament. ofc he got EXTREMLY lucky but he still had a brilliant strategy
When Pavel looses: "It's all skill! Pavel sucks!" When Pavel wins: "It's just luck! Pavel sucks!" Is the majority of Hearthstone community 12 year olds?
lol at the announcers desperately trying to convince themselves and the audience that skill was relevant cause he played sinister strike before prep. like the lucky draw wasn't the only thing that actually mattered lol
The Walking Meme your a fool. luck and skill have nothing to do with each other regardless of the fact that both are relevant in every game ever made. they dont inherently have any relation to eachother at all
The Walking Meme its an ad hominem because the problem with this community is not the difference in skill and luck but the attitude people have towards both of those relevant factors of the game. Its people like you and these commentators that ignore or misinterpret this factor of the game that is holding its development back. luck is not a problem, your perception is. is you tell me 1 + 2 = 4 math isnt wrong you just dont know how to add. and if you answer 4s on a live stream and the commentators say its doesnt matter what he thinks it adds up to as long as he has the 1 and 3 he will win then they are wrong too for ignoring it. yea im calling you and the commentators out. because yall are the problem.
The Walking Meme The Walking Meme Webster's definitions: Skill: the ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance. Luck: a force that brings good fortune or adversity. one is a measure of your control and ability the other is an OUTSIDE FORCE beyond control. they are closer to opposites than they are to "intertwined".
They are retards and won't understand your post. Their logic will be "but he came back to win 3-4 in a row" like the losses meant nothing. He had his fair share of bad RNG too.
I've got to say, people understand very little the difference between luck and probability. True, RNG is Random for definition, but the players are able to control the situations the random number generator acts on, like the board state, the remaining cards of the deck or the possible cards in hand, and they (should) know every possible outcome. Of course I'm not saying the game is completely skill based, cause people that say this are a bunch of stupid fanboys, but like every other card game the best player wins in the long run, cause he'll Always put himself in the right position to have a favorable outcome.
Hearthstone over the years has developed into a more RNG based game. What this implies is that players with better skill aren't being rewarded as much compared to less experienced players. Looking at decks that exist on ladder currently, we have the face hunter deck, which is really simple to pilot, as you're just generally playing secrets and attacking your opponent's face and occasionally trading. There're other examples such as tempo mage and midrange shaman. When decks like these are dominant, it doesn't really reward skill as there isn't a high skill cap on those decks, as players are losing to far less experienced players. Hearthstone currently lacks counterplay, as the game is heavily based on tempo, most games are decided whether you draw board clear or not against these decks. Yes, it is different in a tournament setting as you can ban classes, but when cards like Yogg-Saron exist, you can obviously see the effect that card has in deciding a single game, with RNG playing a huge factor. So when you take away a class that excels at pushing board and damage, you can, in fact, ensure that almost every game will most likely go to turn 10, so at that point, you're just playing slot machines. If you look at past statistics before all these expansions came out you will see that the top HS players had a larger win percentage in tournaments, doesn't that show how RNG reliant hearthstone has become? just how relevant is skill nowadays? I could ramble on, but I doubt people will actually take their time to read this wall of text. TL:DR hearthstone in it's current state, skill is less relevant, and more based on luck.
Zarorex DarkenTale Man I hear you. What I intended to say in my comment was that many people only see the moment Yogg is played and not what comes before. What you say is indeed right, cards like Yogg are like slot machines that can either instantly make you win or lose, but that is the reason tournament matches aren't played with a single game but with many, so that in the long run of the series the best player has a real better chance of winning. About the fact that the winners don't have that high of a win rate any more it maybe because of more people getting very good at playing the game, because the more time passes the more the competition rises. One last point: it's obvious that card games can never reach a point where skill is a lot more relevant then randomness, because of their nature, so it is really strange for that many people to complain about that. If people want to see pure skill-play they should go watch Starcraft, Counter Strike or Street Fighter.
Thanks for taking the time to read through, I appreciate that. However, I don't agree with the fact that card games cannot be more skill based, it's just that hearthstone doesn't have good in-depth decision making which helps separate good and bad players. Most of the time you just play on curve and make favourable trades on the board. Trading a 3/2 into a 4/3 doesn't require much thought process and is just self-explanatory. When you have a game like Duelyst, you can see that every mistake in a game can ultimately lead to a loss, and it definitely rewards skill. as the mechanics in the game create a much higher learning curve than hearthstone. As for the statistics, the top players have shown to have considerably better win rates before the expansions rolled out, I think this is too coincidental for it to be because of "better competition". Looking at cards like Dr. Boom, which can absolutely demolish your board or just deal 2 damage to your face if you're lucky. A card like imp-losion, which deals 2-4 damage and summons an imp for each damage dealt. The card can have too much variance in terms of outcomes. It can be mediocre or become really good, as you're not only dealing more damage, but summoning more minions, which can drastically change an outcome of a game, especially back when knife juggler was the meta in Zoolock, it was a nightmare when they roll a four. Although these cards are no longer in standard, this is a prime example of how much RNG has taken over hearthstone. Back then when only the classic set existed, the only impactful RNG was with Ragnaros and brawl and Ysera (probably other examples like thought steal, but that's soft compared to now). This narrowed down the RNG aspect and we can objectively compare player decisions, rather than be looking at how "lucky" someone got with Yogg-saron. It's appalling how someone who makes great decisions can just get steamrolled by one card. If you've followed Amaz back when priest was the meta class, you can just see the thought process it took for him to clear the board with pyromancers, as he needed to decide on how he should be managing his cards. Yes, the better player will win more games in the long term, but as RNG elements become more prominent, it can easily make inconsistent results. Someone who has spectacular RNG with Yogg saron throughout the entire tournament is definitely just going to win, even if there are more skilled players in the tournament, see the problem? I honestly just don't watch hearthstone Esports anymore because you just can't predict who is going to win, you know that RNG is just going to be a huge factor in the tournament. Sure someone who is more skilled will be favoured, but what does his skill correlate to when his opponent gets far more luck than he does? (hey, thijs, thanks for the one pack).
His reverse sweeps weren't that surprising if you really look at what his strategy was. He targeted very specific decks that he knew people would play. So when that deck finally came up every single one of his decks could beat it aside from his shaman. But shaman at the time was a bit oppressive so everyone banned his shaman, when he openly stated he didn't practice with it. It was a bait deck and everyone just kept falling for it. He had some luck sure, but his strategy was actually quite good.
Man, I love it that Hearthstone is just fully skill based, minimal rng 100% decision making which wins you the games. No luck involved whatsoever, no cards that either generate a bad card or a extremly good card. The perfect cardgame to be hooked by and get competetive in /s
Pavel is just like any other hearthstone winner. Its a combination of luck and skill, and strange outfits and/or haircuts. An unlucky noskill guy with a mohawk is about twice as likely to win blizzcon than a lucky skilled guy with reverse cornrows.
Heartstone features a lot more RNG than most other esport games. As a competetive game it is easily one of the worse. I still enjoy watching it though, its a cool game.
+Xan Its all about the ratio of luck and skill. And hearthstone has obviously LUCK > SKILL. Like come on man, Who the hell is gonna play yogg in his deck in the tournament. Yogg is 100% yolo. He can F u up or even one shot your opponent and more. Thats even the proof that players at the tournament knew about the high chance of RNG. So why not yolo it to the finals.
Hearthstone then vs Hearthstone now: Did they play Keleseth on two? Did the Egg Hunter deck draw their cards in order? Did the Druid draw Spreading Plague?
He said: "I don't think that anyone has more chance to win this competition then me. Some of players have less chance than me and some have equal chance."
He's already lethal and should discover innervate (to play malygos), feral rage healing touch naturalize or mulch (to summon giant and get out of lethal)
Geez 400k views guys, keep it up! Thanks for the love. Seems like RNG does truly pay off!
fuck u
this is ru viewers like 70%+
"Kripp , who do you think is gonna win ?"
"The luckiest player, of course"
LikeAGroove o
The one blizz wants
paveling book
'IM SO TRIGGERD RIGHT NOW
KRIPPERINO
I remember watching these live. The adrenaline was insane.
I remember it as well, I was a 15 year old kid. The only word that could describe this match is “madness”. I was going crazy when he drew the sheep from the book, unbelievable
The amount of Hearthstone players desperately clinging on to the illusion that luck isn't 85% of the determining factor for a win is hilarious..
This is exactly why everybody isn't legend. All you need to hit legend is a grossly overpowered deck (for which you have a plethera of options) and heres the key: time. With how little skill is involved nowdays you simply cannot sustain a very high winrate and as you might know most people are casual players, with no time and no motivation to grind 8 hours of shaman to hit legend.
***** Because not everyone wants to grind the current meta for 40+ games with a 65% winrate and full deck. That is simply the only answer. Look at the good players out in the world, how they reach legend. All the same.
Luck isn't 85% of hearthstone.
It's 90% shaman 10% luck.
and 100% reason to quit the game.
Kappa
Because everyone's not playing 24/7 like you
luck and time. Besides, even if skill is involved, and a deciding factor in making legend, it is not the primary force behind performing well--the game is predominantly luck based, and has been for quite some time (though it wasn't always so over the top with the rng elements)
My Grandfather smoked his whole life. I was about 10 years old when my mother said to him, 'If you ever want to see your grandchildren graduate, you have to stop immediately.'. Tears welled up in his eyes when he realized what exactly was at stake. He gave it up immediately. Three years later he died of lung cancer. It was really sad and destroyed me. My mother said to me- 'Don't ever smoke. Please don't put your family through what your Grandfather put us through." I agreed. At 28, I have never touched a cigarette. I must say, I feel a very slight sense of regret for never having done it, because those text bubbles gave me cancer anyway.
Man like Rocket Hog. Thanks for the feedback, still working on it!
Rocket Hog That... escalated quickly
What a twist!
Rocket Hog do you always steal other peoples sayings/work?
lmao this is so obviously a copypasta, what do you want me to do, add references and site sources at the end?
That's just some anime shit, when main hero almoust dies and fk's everyone right after
son goku... ähhh... pavel... son pavel!
Pavel is Yugi confirmed
pavel confirmed anime protagonist
Amnesiac: Draw your last pathetic card so I can end this, Pavel!
Pavel: My deck has no pathetic cards, Amnesiac, but it does contain... THE UNSTOPPABLE PAVELING BOOK!
Amnesiac: Impossible! No one has ever managed to pull a polymorph off of that card! NOOOOO!
I literally chose to /roll 1-16 as the method for picking my champion to honor RNGesus, and the roll landed on pavel. Coincidence? I think not. Checkmate atheists.
me 2
lol i don't even know who to choose .. not following all the player profile .. i don't even know who is this pavel but i choose him ? coincidence? i think not.
ByteKnight I chose pavel for the 2017 tournament
Me too
It was 1-8 actually, he had 2 sap xxDD
I picked Amnesiasc as my champion and only watched the first 3 matches of the that set and was like "Sweet, I'll check the bracket later tonight to see who Amnesiasc is facing later." Checked it and was like "how the fuck?..."
I mean he shouldn't have picked Forbidden Ancient in my Opinion to get better Early Control and not get punished as hard by Sap (One of the fucking best Tempo Cards) but Pavel hat excellent Line-up against Maly-Druid, plays pretty Minion Heavy Decks which could help him against Zoo and Tempo and got a bit lucky but he also got pretty unlucky before. The First Game was purely decided by Rag with the 33% so i don't know he just seemed well prepared for Maly-Druid which is really common like Shaman but he banned Shaman because they also play a lot of strong Minions so he would most likely lose with a lot of his Decks. Pretty good Games overall, sorry for your Loss in Packs ^^'
Pavel permabanned Shaman and made all his decks with the Druid matchup in mind. It was obvious after using the same strategy twice during the course of the same tournament.
this video is everything thats wrong with hearthstone
Indeed, wonder why it has an esports
Well, if someone was to spend 50 million dollars on tournaments on their own game, even sudoku online, would turn into a Esport.
Because there is an audience that is interested in watching it. You for example.
A sudoku championship would actually be rather interesting.
a suicide championship
All I see is Pavel getting unlucky and then lucky, at least in the quarterfinal. There was no 1sided luck there
Noxeh Kz true
Yeah it was the purpose in editing to make the fact he wasn't just purely lucky and is an amazing player that deserved to win as much as any of the top 8. That Babbling Book tho.
MoritzGarbanzo XD
ask that to yourself. he talks about the quarterfinal vs omega zero and not the semi final vs amnesiac
It was 1 sided luck ... How? Most of his 'unlucky' was during times where it realy didnt matter on the outcome
the editing is great, gg man :)
Much obliged.) Happy you've enjoyed it!
The edit is the most annoying
F4K1NG Agreed
15:43 Pavel be like: "Thanks, RNGesus"...
J'adore la petite tape sur l'épaule.
guys remember that pavel also has one of the highest recorded winrates on eu...
Luckiest player eu
how is such a high luck based game an esport i will never understand.
Where did you get the 75% win rates from? That is kinda ludicrous considering top players can't even manage that on ladder. The issue is that the better players are not winning consistently. Luck is a part of card games and that is okay, but hearthstone has implemented too much luck into the game for skill to decide the outcome of matches. Take poker for example. The best players in the world do not win every tournament because luck is still an aspect of the game, but they consistently win tournaments over time. You cannot win tournaments consistently in HS and that's why most people cannot take it seriously as something competitive, something that should be based on skill.
***** Yeah, that is Arena. The best players in the world average 7-8 wins, which would put them at about a 75% win rate. In constructed, when you reach the higher ranks, everyone is playing a viable deck, so win rates tend to dip below 75%.
My issue is not with Arena or ladder but HS tournaments. I have a lot of respect for top legend players and infinite Arena players. In these type of games, you can measure player abilities based on consistency, not individual matches. But tournaments are decided on series of best of 7, where the sample size for a legend player is over hundreds, maybe thousands of games.
Jeff Li your comment is a year old, but I just had to say that you obviously don’t understand hearthstone, because your statement is fighting itself.
Blizzard has the funds to turn any of their casual games into an esport
@@yungchoqquit how so ? :D
everyone sayin pavel won by luck when all of his rng cards had all the outcomes from worst to best and im sitting here rememberin how firebat got through groups when he missed lethal and his opponent missed lethal aswell
When I play Pavelling Book I always role shatter. FeelsBadMan.
I bet amnesiac, wishes he had amnesia, so he can forget how savagely he was beaten.
To be honest, i think Pavel had a supreme strategy going into this tournament. He basically analyzed his way to what the strongest decks are (druid and shammy) He then permabanned shammy and constructed all his decks to counter druid. That is not RNG, that is brilliang strategy.
And yes, baffling book giving him poly is lucky, but a few rounds prior to that. his flamewaker had missed rag twice and rag had make a 5/7 hit on the azure drake, so RNG wasnt all in Pavel's favour.
Another Forking Channel he got unlucky that time but this situation is what we call a player is "punished" for not doing a safer play, he could have guarantee kill the rag with fireland portal and his minion that was on the board so he had safer options there. However the play against malygos and thaurissan he had nothing until babbling book saved him só he certainly had a lot more favor grom rng than his opponent
so it is pure rng? he loses when he misses, he wins when he hits?
its luck
stop it
just stop it
GxReaper its strategy out of game and 90% luck ingame
awesome pause moment edits ! just missed out one last part when pavel pats amnesiac on the back :D
The more I think about it the more genius it actually sounds. Well you live and learn, it's an awesome idea!
Now I know where the PavelSports meme came from.
XD i love the tap on the shoulder at the end
when RNGesus wants you to win...
Pavel saw that druid and shaman are the 2 dominant classes in the curent meta, always banned mage and teched fully against malygos shaman. thats why he won the tournament. ofc he got EXTREMLY lucky but he still had a brilliant strategy
When Pavel looses: "It's all skill! Pavel sucks!"
When Pavel wins: "It's just luck! Pavel sucks!"
Is the majority of Hearthstone community 12 year olds?
Isac Yes
There are a few elderly men streaming RNGstone as well, but other than that i think the audience is quite young, yes.
It's a free to play game, of course they are 12 year olds
lol at the announcers desperately trying to convince themselves and the audience that skill was relevant cause he played sinister strike before prep. like the lucky draw wasn't the only thing that actually mattered lol
i think hearthstone is like 60% luck 40 % skill
I was thinking the same thing lol Of course you play SS first... you're digging for sap. I wonder if they play this game.
The Walking Meme your a fool. luck and skill have nothing to do with each other regardless of the fact that both are relevant in every game ever made. they dont inherently have any relation to eachother at all
The Walking Meme its an ad hominem because the problem with this community is not the difference in skill and luck but the attitude people have towards both of those relevant factors of the game. Its people like you and these commentators that ignore or misinterpret this factor of the game that is holding its development back.
luck is not a problem, your perception is.
is you tell me 1 + 2 = 4 math isnt wrong you just dont know how to add.
and if you answer 4s on a live stream and the commentators say its doesnt matter what he thinks it adds up to as long as he has the 1 and 3 he will win then they are wrong too for ignoring it.
yea im calling you and the commentators out. because yall are the problem.
The Walking Meme The Walking Meme Webster's definitions:
Skill: the ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance.
Luck: a force that brings good fortune or adversity.
one is a measure of your control and ability the other is an OUTSIDE FORCE beyond control.
they are closer to opposites than they are to "intertwined".
Loved the edit keep up the good work,hope you get bigger! +1 sub
Many thanks, will do my best!
Omegazero fans:Lets go paved
Next game
Commentators:Lets go pavel
Amnesiac fans:Lets go pavel
Pavel:I should play magic
great video bro
Thanks bro, appreciate it!
I love watching poker, these kind of turns are my favorite
Lose intentionally 3 times so you can train their last deck. New tourny meta
That's not water, that's some industrial grade RNGesus Juice.
i love the pat on the back at the end
This luckfest was very entertaining. The bast was that the players acted like they actually controlling something on the table. xD
These guys are so much better at playing yogg at 10 mana and having something good happen than the average player. Impressive play, truly
Two 3-4, How is that insane luck? Insane luck would be two 4-0. He had bad luck in 3 games, good in 4.
They are retards and won't understand your post. Their logic will be "but he came back to win 3-4 in a row" like the losses meant nothing. He had his fair share of bad RNG too.
Nah, he won, so he had more luck that his opponents. Thats all there is to it really.
Jans6ever Oh, okay so post a photo of all your trophies then? Oh, you were just unlucky in every thing you ever did? LMAO delusional kid
I lost my damn shit when I saw that RNG draw for Polymorph, that was insane.
I love how Yogg was actually a playable and totally a logical deck. Also great reactions from pavel
dont know how ofter i watched this allready :D
I've got to say, people understand very little the difference between luck and probability. True, RNG is Random for definition, but the players are able to control the situations the random number generator acts on, like the board state, the remaining cards of the deck or the possible cards in hand, and they (should) know every possible outcome. Of course I'm not saying the game is completely skill based, cause people that say this are a bunch of stupid fanboys, but like every other card game the best player wins in the long run, cause he'll Always put himself in the right position to have a favorable outcome.
So, a card that give you polymorph and fireland protal is controled by the player? What about Yogg?
yogg is controlled by playing more/less spells, and by choosing in advance when creating the deck
Hearthstone over the years has developed into a more RNG based game. What this implies is that players with better skill aren't being rewarded as much compared to less experienced players. Looking at decks that exist on ladder currently, we have the face hunter deck, which is really simple to pilot, as you're just generally playing secrets and attacking your opponent's face and occasionally trading. There're other examples such as tempo mage and midrange shaman.
When decks like these are dominant, it doesn't really reward skill as there isn't a high skill cap on those decks, as players are losing to far less experienced players. Hearthstone currently lacks counterplay, as the game is heavily based on tempo, most games are decided whether you draw board clear or not against these decks.
Yes, it is different in a tournament setting as you can ban classes, but when cards like Yogg-Saron exist, you can obviously see the effect that card has in deciding a single game, with RNG playing a huge factor. So when you take away a class that excels at pushing board and damage, you can, in fact, ensure that almost every game will most likely go to turn 10, so at that point, you're just playing slot machines. If you look at past statistics before all these expansions came out you will see that the top HS players had a larger win percentage in tournaments, doesn't that show how RNG reliant hearthstone has become? just how relevant is skill nowadays?
I could ramble on, but I doubt people will actually take their time to read this wall of text.
TL:DR hearthstone in it's current state, skill is less relevant, and more based on luck.
Zarorex DarkenTale Man I hear you. What I intended to say in my comment was that many people only see the moment Yogg is played and not what comes before. What you say is indeed right, cards like Yogg are like slot machines that can either instantly make you win or lose, but that is the reason tournament matches aren't played with a single game but with many, so that in the long run of the series the best player has a real better chance of winning. About the fact that the winners don't have that high of a win rate any more it maybe because of more people getting very good at playing the game, because the more time passes the more the competition rises.
One last point: it's obvious that card games can never reach a point where skill is a lot more relevant then randomness, because of their nature, so it is really strange for that many people to complain about that. If people want to see pure skill-play they should go watch Starcraft, Counter Strike or Street Fighter.
Thanks for taking the time to read through, I appreciate that. However, I don't agree with the fact that card games cannot be more skill based, it's just that hearthstone doesn't have good in-depth decision making which helps separate good and bad players. Most of the time you just play on curve and make favourable trades on the board. Trading a 3/2 into a 4/3 doesn't require much thought process and is just self-explanatory.
When you have a game like Duelyst, you can see that every mistake in a game can ultimately lead to a loss, and it definitely rewards skill. as the mechanics in the game create a much higher learning curve than hearthstone.
As for the statistics, the top players have shown to have considerably better win rates before the expansions rolled out, I think this is too coincidental for it to be because of "better competition". Looking at cards like Dr. Boom, which can absolutely demolish your board or just deal 2 damage to your face if you're lucky. A card like imp-losion, which deals 2-4 damage and summons an imp for each damage dealt. The card can have too much variance in terms of outcomes. It can be mediocre or become really good, as you're not only dealing more damage, but summoning more minions, which can drastically change an outcome of a game, especially back when knife juggler was the meta in Zoolock, it was a nightmare when they roll a four.
Although these cards are no longer in standard, this is a prime example of how much RNG has taken over hearthstone. Back then when only the classic set existed, the only impactful RNG was with Ragnaros and brawl and Ysera (probably other examples like thought steal, but that's soft compared to now). This narrowed down the RNG aspect and we can objectively compare player decisions, rather than be looking at how "lucky" someone got with Yogg-saron. It's appalling how someone who makes great decisions can just get steamrolled by one card.
If you've followed Amaz back when priest was the meta class, you can just see the thought process it took for him to clear the board with pyromancers, as he needed to decide on how he should be managing his cards.
Yes, the better player will win more games in the long term, but as RNG elements become more prominent, it can easily make inconsistent results. Someone who has spectacular RNG with Yogg saron throughout the entire tournament is definitely just going to win, even if there are more skilled players in the tournament, see the problem?
I honestly just don't watch hearthstone Esports anymore because you just can't predict who is going to win, you know that RNG is just going to be a huge factor in the tournament. Sure someone who is more skilled will be favoured, but what does his skill correlate to when his opponent gets far more luck than he does? (hey, thijs, thanks for the one pack).
His reverse sweeps weren't that surprising if you really look at what his strategy was. He targeted very specific decks that he knew people would play. So when that deck finally came up every single one of his decks could beat it aside from his shaman. But shaman at the time was a bit oppressive so everyone banned his shaman, when he openly stated he didn't practice with it. It was a bait deck and everyone just kept falling for it. He had some luck sure, but his strategy was actually quite good.
hs esports is a joke
Yeah...
esports in general is a joke
@@afewhundredyearslate no
whats the music at 17:54
this is the best moment in hearthstone history it will be remembered through the years
Man, I love it that Hearthstone is just fully skill based, minimal rng 100% decision making which wins you the games. No luck involved whatsoever, no cards that either generate a bad card or a extremly good card. The perfect cardgame to be hooked by and get competetive in
/s
JESUS had this video on recommended for MONTHS. Im done, here u go >.
Pavel is hearthstone love, Pavel is hearthstone life.
Blew my freaking mind! Shit was unreal madness!!!
Следил за этим лет 6 назад, какая же это была победа для всего нашего снг комьюнити
Подтверждаю) а потом еще Штан порадовал
He likes to build tension
I mean rng gods like to build tension
great editing, perfect work
"Babbling book, proof on a world stage that the game is broken"
How come "pro" players decide to throw yogg in their decks?? Its like fuck this shit im going for rng... doesnt make sense at all!
cuz hearthstone is a game of skill.
11:55 WHY HE NOT USE HERO ABILITY ?
Pavel is just like any other hearthstone winner. Its a combination of luck and skill, and strange outfits and/or haircuts. An unlucky noskill guy with a mohawk is about twice as likely to win blizzcon than a lucky skilled guy with reverse cornrows.
Dr. Pavel, I'm CIA.
...
You don't get to bring RNG
They're not my RNG
that's not just water. this is holy water
lmao Kevin from Home Alone is winning HS tournaments like no other.
When you're world champion of playing fantasy slots.
They look like they're having fun.
and Such Paveling book was born
Pavel's strategy to win: Get lucky, Repeat.
he believed in the heart of the cards :))
''Ha! They think it's water.. '' xD
Once again Pavel proved that HS shouldn't be a cybersport
you could see how deeply sickened amnesiac was during the last 2 games
The Paveling Book!
When a tournament of players is based more on Luck than skills....you know your game as problems
are you dumb or just trolling, then any game in the world is RNG.
Heartstone features a lot more RNG than most other esport games. As a competetive game it is easily one of the worse. I still enjoy watching it though, its a cool game.
+Xan Its all about the ratio of luck and skill. And hearthstone has obviously LUCK > SKILL. Like come on man, Who the hell is gonna play yogg in his deck in the tournament. Yogg is 100% yolo. He can F u up or even one shot your opponent and more. Thats even the proof that players at the tournament knew about the high chance of RNG. So why not yolo it to the finals.
Firebat postgame: "Impressive play by Pavel."
He literally just Yogg'd
How is amnesiac containing himself? If i were him I would have broken shit right there
3:20 Now that's a LAAAAAAAT of DAMAGE
8 wins against Druid. He built his line up to beat Druid and his opponents both played Druid last, that's why he reverse sweeped twice.
Label is just like “ima let these guys win and get cocky and just have a giant comeback”
Green on white thumbnail?
This pat on the shoulder x)
Hearthstone then vs Hearthstone now: Did they play Keleseth on two? Did the Egg Hunter deck draw their cards in order? Did the Druid draw Spreading Plague?
Seems to me that Pavel's 4 decks counter 1 of every opponent's decks. This way, even 3-0, Pavel will always win 4-3. Clever, Pavel. Clever.
20:03 You see a man's morale being dismantled slowly.
this game is joke as esport but so funny to see players faces lul
Pavel took BM to a new level
why cant they play shaman?
fantastic job editing in only important parts of the games
Many thanks, my plan is to make more if there's a good opportunity (like this one). Subscribe if you will to not miss the next one! .)
Thank again for the 7 packs pavel !
What the fuck did Pavel say at the start of the video?
He said: "I don't think that anyone has more chance to win this competition then me. Some of players have less chance than me and some have equal chance."
Pretty sublte lol thx mate
Pavel is the Yugi of hearthstone
such a skillful game. you did it blizzard
that why mtg will beat any other card game espec hearstone
I think Druid couldn't win against Pavel. :v
les games de pavel etaient juste magique c'était que du bonheur de le voir remonter des 3 - 0
Pavel reminds me of Voldemort in he's Hogwarts years. Glad he won tho, cheered for him.
10:48 hahahhaahhahha i remember this :D
Do you remember the times when, random based games were not considered an e-sport games?
Pavel the comebacker
I like the edits
13:00 Why he surrender?
He's already lethal and should discover innervate (to play malygos), feral rage healing touch naturalize or mulch (to summon giant and get out of lethal)
PAVEL BEING BLESSED BY RNG DIRECTORS CUT
15:30 "Paveling Book"
They misspelled Amnesiac the whole time, no?
RNG-sports!
The Rngesus himself