Sincerely this is a very useful video. I have the DP25 of Pintek and these Micsigs are also useful, because both offer different advantages and 100 MHz BW!. Thank you. If and when I buy I shall buy from this link.
Thanks Tim. I meant to give a shout out to #Camera Conspiracies. I think the guy is hilarious;) I did mention that the BW is 100 MHz, but I will do a full review of this probe once I have a chance to test it out.
Great video! I am continuously having problems with standard probes, but haven't purchased differential probes yet because the prices seem like highway robbery. I will definitely purchase a couple of the Micsigs based on the more reasonable price point. I already use their current probe for most projects because I need its bandwidth, and I find it to be a high quality instrument.
That's great! I will do a full review and compare it to my other 2 probes. I think it will come down to which range selection makes more sense as I think they will all test great. So far I haven't had any disappointments with the 2 that I have.
The thing that's rather puzzling is why do scopes tie the reference of all the channels together, and to earth ground, in the first place? If you look at the multi-channel power supplies sitting right next to your scope, those all have independent channels that aren't automatically earth referenced (hence why there's a separate earth banana jack on each channel if you want to earth reference it, or you can put the channels in parallel or series). DMM's are isolated by the nature of being battery powered. Why is the default different on scopes than all other test gear? Also, I just bought a set of micsig differential probes, and they don't come with the regular probe tips anymore - only the grabbers and the alligator clips now, even though the picture on amazon still shows the regular probe tips as well.
Did you actually ever check the bandwidth of this probe? I wonder if mine is defective. I bought one and I'm seeing a somewhat acceptable frequency response up to about 25MHz. Above that, there is a region where the probe has a bit of gain and then SIGNIFICANT attenuation above 50MHz. At 100MHz the probe has more than 12dB of attenuation which makes it completely unusable at those frequencies.
I use a Contec because it's battery powered. With the externally powered ones it's another damn cable to cope with. Also with a 4 channel scope you have the ability to make two differential measurements at once, with the math function
@@KissAnalog Not built in rechargeable, just uses standard AA cells. I got it off ebay a few of years back when I needed one. I've no idea how old it is, or if it's still available, but it does the job for me
I think it depends on what voltages you are working with. If they are say a couple hundred or lower than the 1007 would be great, but if the lower voltages are all 100 V or higher (as an example) then the 10013 might be better as it has the higher X factors. Does that make sense?
Question: Looking at the differential probe design I assume the BNC plug needs to be grounded (earthed), otherwise there would be half the measured voltage between the BNC plug and true ground (earth). So the probe couldn't be used with an ungrounded heandheld scopemeter for example. Is this understanding correct? Thanks, A
That's a great question Larry! The 100 MHz probes will work with it and you will probably never know the difference;) They will limit the readings to 100 MHz, but then what do you need over that?
Great point - and the Micsig is battery operated;) A battery operated scope is far safer, but for one of the other 3 channels to have a different reference, you still can benefit from a diff probe!
LOL That is probably very true;) I see a lot of scopes in the lab that have the 'cheater' plugs (the ones with the missing ground prong). The idea is that it saves scope probes from an oops;) But, you still need to be careful to put each probe ground clip on the same potential or your scope will short them for you:( Unless, you use a diff probe. BTW, I want to come up with a diff probe design for DYI that would be very inexpensive.
What every good engineer does ? I think you are confused, because a decent engineer doesn't cut corners on safety. When you cut the ground prong on a AC cord of a scope, 2 things will happen. 1) If you have a modern scope with EMI filters on the power input, the safety capacitors will leak to the negative part of the BNC connectors, this leakage can go as high as 50% of your mains voltage (60 to 120V depending on the country). This leakage is very low current (uA), but enough to kill sensitive components like Mosfets etc.... 2) Because your negative part of your BNC connectors have now a voltage above ground potential, your scope doesn't have a zero point to compare his measurements. A normale scope probe compare the signal against ground potential, but because your ground potential of your scope is now above the ground potential of your mains, you have a offset on your measured signal. The rule is to ground every measuring device on your bench, and isolate the DUT (Device Under Test) by lifting the ground prong, or using a isolation transformer to power the DUT. Removing the ground prong on a scope was done back in the old days by cowboys, where the scopes didn't have EMI filters that leak voltage to the ground, but where metal casing of the scope could become hot and could cause electrocution. Without the ground connected, a RCD won't trip and you got zapped.
Great tip, but you still need to be sure each probe is referenced to the same signal. Differential probes can be your friend even with an isolation transformer;)
Great review! A few comments.-) I like that your start was shorter with another effect than the "smoke". your transitions were maybe not perfect, sometimes did it feel like my eyes had lost focus or something while the effect was running. I like that you showed the flush part of the probe, but maybe you should have shown that in the start instead a lot later where I was wondering if you would zoom in or just the viewer imagines that. You have flashing LED's on the power supplies in the background, this happens because the blinking and the framerate of the camera is about the same. Try adjusting the camera's frame rate to something that is not divisible with 60Hz. But all in all a great review with lots of great information :-)
hey, finally.. some real hobby people diff-probes...:-] i have wondered why the diff-probes are so pricey? my work is 480vac 3-phase SCR-motor drives 60Hz... theses probes will be sweet..:) Plus a fluke 2 channel scopemeter "which is use around HV power stuff" is around 2K$ to 5K$. depends which one of course.. Mmm
Do i see an upside down trigger fish there eddie? Haha Joking aside. I can get the dp10007 for half price. You know the kinda stuff im into. Would you buy it?
I have two Rigol RP1050D (same as Pintek). Will come in handy when I get around building a power supply and diagnosing a Bose sub amp, time permitting.
It's a terrible device. Its error at 20mhz reaches to 19%. In my test, it works well up to 670khz with an error lower than 2%. There is no way to open the enclosure to tune it. Just a waste of money and time.
Is there any chance you could do a video about making differential measurements with single-ended probes? I have been trying to get it to work on my Rigol 1054Z and I can't figure it out for the life of me. I would like to measure the input and output from my amp, but the only way it works is if I use the probe's ground clip. I tried subtracting channel 1 - channel 2 with no ground attached but it just gives me a lot of noise and no signal. Is a differential probe necessary or am I doing something wrong?
It would be great to see Migsig do an amplified differential probe for $170 - lol. I think Tektronix only wants about $5000 for one (why so cheap, I dunno - lol). Your "little" channel must be more popular than you think. Amazon is sold out of the x10 MigSig now. We can order it direct from China and may have it by April sometime.
They are really good voltage probes and right price. However, to measure the high side FET, the CMRR is a big obstruction. in most of the differential probe, even Keysight or other big brand, except one or two which are very expensive.
Hey thanks for having this channel! I'm an experienced EE in from the automotive industry (15yrs). I didn't know this class of scopes & probes existed you opened my eyes. I've watched a bunch of your videos, really appreciate what you do for the field. Watching your videos is like talking to the super experienced/nice engineer for a 15-20min in the lab. So useful. I purchased a Siglent scope, 2x hantek current probes & this diff probe using your affiliate links because of your videos. I really appreciate you giving these things a nice workout. Without your reviews, I personally would never trust these things.
Your videos are great. I've recently watched dozens of videos on differential probes and it puzzles me that not one of them connects the probe to say an outlet or ac cord. They always use a sincewave generator to demonstrate them. I'm just a hobbyist but would like to know how to test home ac or a UPS output without frying my scope!! I've learned that the new APC sinewave ups's are suppose to generate a true sinewave and not a stepped wave!
Cannot wait until your comparison and testing video it’s time for me to upgrade and add test equipment components that are not ridiculously expensive for my hobby.
Thank you! I am anxious to do this too. I have some ideas of how to see them compare;) I agree - I am so used to using expensive equipment at work that I thought I'd have to take a step down, but these probes are just as good as the ones 10x in price. IMHO;)
@@KissAnalog I have to do the same thing for DYI or small individual technicians with a lower budget and do some reviews on cheaper alternative HVAC tools and equipment for my profession
I've been meaning to ask how you guys measure current with your scopes. I see guys with resistor in series with the circuit and taking measurements across the resistor. I would love.to be able to look at switching power supplies and current. What calc. do you use to determine the resistance of the resistor? Can the diff. probe be used to accomplish these types of current measurements as well?
Sincerely this is a very useful video. I have the DP25 of Pintek and these Micsigs are also useful, because both offer different advantages and 100 MHz BW!. Thank you. If and when I buy I shall buy from this link.
Thanks for the great feedback! Yes, the 100 MHz is impressive. Oh yes, and I do appreciate you considering my link;)
Thanks Eddie, look forward to watching ur next episode of reviewing our probe
Thank you so much for providing your support and these probes!!! I hope this helps others learn their value;)
(Love the shirt!) Ok I didn't miss the BW spec...you just hadn't gotten to it yet. Thanks for the updates.
Thanks Tim. I meant to give a shout out to #Camera Conspiracies. I think the guy is hilarious;) I did mention that the BW is 100 MHz, but I will do a full review of this probe once I have a chance to test it out.
Great video! I am continuously having problems with standard probes, but haven't purchased differential probes yet because the prices seem like highway robbery. I will definitely purchase a couple of the Micsigs based on the more reasonable price point. I already use their current probe for most projects because I need its bandwidth, and I find it to be a high quality instrument.
That is fantastic feedback - thanks for sharing!
Great com[arison of differential probes. Now I can have a better idea of which probe I will buy. Thank you.
That's great! I will do a full review and compare it to my other 2 probes. I think it will come down to which range selection makes more sense as I think they will all test great. So far I haven't had any disappointments with the 2 that I have.
Hi Eddie, thank you for another awesome video.
Thanks for your support!
The thing that's rather puzzling is why do scopes tie the reference of all the channels together, and to earth ground, in the first place? If you look at the multi-channel power supplies sitting right next to your scope, those all have independent channels that aren't automatically earth referenced (hence why there's a separate earth banana jack on each channel if you want to earth reference it, or you can put the channels in parallel or series). DMM's are isolated by the nature of being battery powered. Why is the default different on scopes than all other test gear? Also, I just bought a set of micsig differential probes, and they don't come with the regular probe tips anymore - only the grabbers and the alligator clips now, even though the picture on amazon still shows the regular probe tips as well.
Did you actually ever check the bandwidth of this probe? I wonder if mine is defective.
I bought one and I'm seeing a somewhat acceptable frequency response up to about 25MHz.
Above that, there is a region where the probe has a bit of gain and then SIGNIFICANT attenuation above 50MHz.
At 100MHz the probe has more than 12dB of attenuation which makes it completely unusable at those frequencies.
I use a Contec because it's battery powered. With the externally powered ones it's another damn cable to cope with. Also with a 4 channel scope you have the ability to make two differential measurements at once, with the math function
Nice tip! Is the battery a rechargable? I'll have to look into these - thank you!
@@KissAnalog Not built in rechargeable, just uses standard AA cells. I got it off ebay a few of years back when I needed one. I've no idea how old it is, or if it's still available, but it does the job for me
Im planning to buy one of those probes but im not sure yet whether to buy the 10013 or 1007 version.
I think it depends on what voltages you are working with. If they are say a couple hundred or lower than the 1007 would be great, but if the lower voltages are all 100 V or higher (as an example) then the 10013 might be better as it has the higher X factors. Does that make sense?
Question: Looking at the differential probe design I assume the BNC plug needs to be grounded (earthed), otherwise there would be half the measured voltage between the BNC plug and true ground (earth). So the probe couldn't be used with an ungrounded heandheld scopemeter for example. Is this understanding correct? Thanks, A
I have a dumb question. If I have a 200Mhz oscilloscope will this 100Mhz probe work with it ?
That's a great question Larry! The 100 MHz probes will work with it and you will probably never know the difference;) They will limit the readings to 100 MHz, but then what do you need over that?
Did you sell out already? The link for the new probe shows "unavailable."
Sorry Richard. I think it was a new release and they didn't have a lot on the shelf, but there's a good price now: amzn.to/3k1zAOW
Why not use a battery operated scope?
Great point - and the Micsig is battery operated;) A battery operated scope is far safer, but for one of the other 3 channels to have a different reference, you still can benefit from a diff probe!
YUP! nice neat little package, in a hard case!! nice!
Thanks for your feedback - I appreciate you!
What every good engineer does when they receive a new scope is cut the ground prong off the AC line cord.
Is that safe ?
This is like powering the scope from an isolation transformer which is not recommended.
LOL That is probably very true;) I see a lot of scopes in the lab that have the 'cheater' plugs (the ones with the missing ground prong). The idea is that it saves scope probes from an oops;) But, you still need to be careful to put each probe ground clip on the same potential or your scope will short them for you:( Unless, you use a diff probe. BTW, I want to come up with a diff probe design for DYI that would be very inexpensive.
What every good engineer does ?
I think you are confused, because a decent engineer doesn't cut corners on safety.
When you cut the ground prong on a AC cord of a scope, 2 things will happen.
1) If you have a modern scope with EMI filters on the power input, the safety capacitors will leak to the negative part of the BNC connectors, this leakage can go as high as 50% of your mains voltage (60 to 120V depending on the country). This leakage is very low current (uA), but enough to kill sensitive components like Mosfets etc....
2) Because your negative part of your BNC connectors have now a voltage above ground potential, your scope doesn't have a zero point to compare his measurements. A normale scope probe compare the signal against ground potential, but because your ground potential of your scope is now above the ground potential of your mains, you have a offset on your measured signal.
The rule is to ground every measuring device on your bench, and isolate the DUT (Device Under Test) by lifting the ground prong, or using a isolation transformer to power the DUT.
Removing the ground prong on a scope was done back in the old days by cowboys, where the scopes didn't have EMI filters that leak voltage to the ground, but where metal casing of the scope could become hot and could cause electrocution. Without the ground connected, a RCD won't trip and you got zapped.
Best use isolated transformers for oscilloscopes.
Great tip, but you still need to be sure each probe is referenced to the same signal. Differential probes can be your friend even with an isolation transformer;)
All my equipments are in Malaysia but I have problems with customs in India. Due to that I need you help because I am running free classes.
Sir,please try to get me sencore z meter.same that you have on the right side of the bench.thank you.have a nice day.
What country are you in?
From Malaysia, now in India giving free classes in electronic and electrical for those who can't afford.
Great review!
A few comments.-)
I like that your start was shorter with another effect than the "smoke". your transitions were maybe not perfect, sometimes did it feel like my eyes had lost focus or something while the effect was running. I like that you showed the flush part of the probe, but maybe you should have shown that in the start instead a lot later where I was wondering if you would zoom in or just the viewer imagines that.
You have flashing LED's on the power supplies in the background, this happens because the blinking and the framerate of the camera is about the same. Try adjusting the camera's frame rate to something that is not divisible with 60Hz.
But all in all a great review with lots of great information :-)
Thanks so much for your support and great help;) I’ll see if I can get rid of the blinking, or if need be turn them off;)
Awesome Video Eddie, this is on my list of next purchases ! Helps with Measuring with Class D amplifiers !
Yes, you are right! A great option when testing Class D amps - which we will be doing a lot of;)
@@KissAnalog Uploading a video now, will be out tomorrow morning :P
Look forward to see the side by side comparison of the 2 Micsig probes.
It will be interesting! Thank you!
hey, finally.. some real hobby people diff-probes...:-] i have wondered why the diff-probes are so pricey? my work is 480vac 3-phase SCR-motor drives 60Hz... theses probes will be sweet..:) Plus a fluke 2 channel scopemeter "which is use around HV power stuff" is around 2K$ to 5K$. depends which one of course.. Mmm
Thanks for the feedback! Yes, these would work great for that. th-cam.com/video/892RcsIUAtU/w-d-xo.html
Do i see an upside down trigger fish there eddie? Haha
Joking aside. I can get the dp10007 for half price. You know the kinda stuff im into. Would you buy it?
I think that is an amazing price - so yes! ;) It is about $170 on sale at this link: amzn.to/3P0UDzi
I have two Rigol RP1050D (same as Pintek). Will come in handy when I get around building a power supply and diagnosing a Bose sub amp, time permitting.
They sure will be;). Let us know how you like them.
It's a terrible device. Its error at 20mhz reaches to 19%. In my test, it works well up to 670khz with an error lower than 2%. There is no way to open the enclosure to tune it. Just a waste of money and time.
Is there any chance you could do a video about making differential measurements with single-ended probes? I have been trying to get it to work on my Rigol 1054Z and I can't figure it out for the life of me. I would like to measure the input and output from my amp, but the only way it works is if I use the probe's ground clip. I tried subtracting channel 1 - channel 2 with no ground attached but it just gives me a lot of noise and no signal. Is a differential probe necessary or am I doing something wrong?
Thanks Josh! Great question and I will do a video on this very soon!
It would be great to see Migsig do an amplified differential probe for $170 - lol. I think Tektronix only wants about $5000 for one (why so cheap, I dunno - lol). Your "little" channel must be more popular than you think. Amazon is sold out of the x10 MigSig now. We can order it direct from China and may have it by April sometime.
That is an awesome idea! I'll write them and suggest that - you never know. BTW, they usually refer to that as an active probe;)
They are really good voltage probes and right price. However, to measure the high side FET, the CMRR is a big obstruction. in most of the differential probe, even Keysight or other big brand, except one or two which are very expensive.
Thanks for the feedback. Are you referring to when the probes are reading across a high voltage and the CM noise is too high?
Hey thanks for having this channel! I'm an experienced EE in from the automotive industry (15yrs). I didn't know this class of scopes & probes existed you opened my eyes. I've watched a bunch of your videos, really appreciate what you do for the field. Watching your videos is like talking to the super experienced/nice engineer for a 15-20min in the lab. So useful. I purchased a Siglent scope, 2x hantek current probes & this diff probe using your affiliate links because of your videos. I really appreciate you giving these things a nice workout. Without your reviews, I personally would never trust these things.
Thanks so much!! This is awesome feedback! I appreciate you!
Great video, man. I hope you can do a video using that probe to the limit, to see how good it performs.
Thank you! I will compare it with the other probes soon;)
Your videos are great. I've recently watched dozens of videos on differential probes and it puzzles me that not one of them connects the probe to say an outlet or ac cord. They always use a sincewave generator to demonstrate them. I'm just a hobbyist but would like to know how to test home ac or a UPS output without frying my scope!! I've learned that the new APC sinewave ups's are suppose to generate a true sinewave and not a stepped wave!
Cannot wait until your comparison and testing video it’s time for me to upgrade and add test equipment components that are not ridiculously expensive for my hobby.
Thank you! I am anxious to do this too. I have some ideas of how to see them compare;) I agree - I am so used to using expensive equipment at work that I thought I'd have to take a step down, but these probes are just as good as the ones 10x in price. IMHO;)
@@KissAnalog I have to do the same thing for DYI or small individual technicians with a lower budget and do some reviews on cheaper alternative HVAC tools and equipment for my profession
I've been meaning to ask how you guys measure current with your scopes. I see guys with resistor in series with the circuit and taking measurements across the resistor. I would love.to be able to look at switching power supplies and current. What calc. do you use to determine the resistance of the resistor? Can the diff. probe be used to accomplish these types of current measurements as well?
Thanks for that great question! I have an idea, and I’ll do that video very soon;)