THIS Happens when Pilot Helps With Maintenance!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2025
- Dan takes his Cessna T210N to Efinger Aviation and John Efinger to get the annual done, but instead of dropping it off, Dan gets his hands greasy and assists with the annual workload.
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I learn so much assisting my IA with my annuals, I have been assisting on the annuals on my Cessna 170B for over 20 years and every year I learn something new!
Wanted to say "Thank you!" to John in allowing you to film this, I found it informational and entertaining. The attention to detail John has is amazing, I hope young A&P's are inspired by this.
I recently retired from the Airlines after 41 yrs as a Technical Representative. Pretty much can say I did more than my share from Avionics, NDT, QC, Structures and Powerplants. But, I have to say; if I had to work for John, I would start out as an A&P Apprentice on GA aircraft. It’s a completely different world!
You are fortunate to find a guy like John to let you do an owners assist and film the annual. I'm an IA and have had owners partly assist me, but I would never permit them to film me. Just saying, just me. Good for John, he seems to be a super great guy.
I’m very fortunate to have John.
@@TakingOff Can you give us approx cost and total time for the annual?
As a CFI and A&P, I found this one entertaining. John is clearly an excellent IA mechanic. Thanks for sharing, Dan.
Im doing an owner assisted this year for the first time. I can say I've learned a ton. Not that i want to do that every year, but knowing more about the plane and process has been beneficial
Impressed at how clean and organized that shop is and your plane is also very clean. Wish my Cherokee 180 was this clean inside.
Bought a plane and shortly after began working as an apprentice at a shop. Almost at my 30 months! Worth getting as an owner, you really learn your aircraft and keeps maintenance costs much lower.
Awesome. That’s how I got my A&P. I highly recommend going to Baker to get your testing done.
@flywithglenn Good to know, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!
Thanks, Dan! I will be showing this to my second-year AMT students 😁
Very informative and enlightening. After almost 50 years in the aerospace industry (retired), but mainly commercial and military, it was super interesting to see this process in the GA side of the house.
Have a good bit of time in both as well. I was initially shocked when I 1st entered into GA working on my own Aircraft after purchase. It took awhile to adjust especially in comparison to Military Standards. I didn't lower my personal standards, it was just enlightening to see the contrast. Even the Military Aviation is not what it used to be. Seeing some of the displays at Airshows up close has amazed me seeing things that would never have been allowed back in the mid-70's
Awesome video, thanks. Is it possible to give ,more details of this annual, like the total time it took for annual, approx cost for it being owner assist, what parts replaced, etc! It always good to take part in this process and learn what is involved, great vid.
Dang sure a good guy to have working on ur plane and yes cleanest shop I’ve ever seen.
The other side of the building wall containing parts, equipment not in use & tooling is NOT painted white but sealed. Fortunate to be able to keep Aircraft side of building cleared out with that arrangement.
Seems to me an owner assist SHOULD cost more. And John allowed you to help because he cares about pilots that care about their airplane. Makes me wish my career was working for john!
As a non aircraft mechanic. I truly believe that every pilot should have mechanical knowledge of the operations of his entire aircraft
Good morning from Minnesota.
I went through A&P School at San Bernardino Valley College in the '60s and got my A&P and I can tell you, that A&P Course is just basically an introduction. You're a certified beginner when you come out of there. It can be easy to be caught off guard and you may wind up in over your head when you show up actually in the industry.
Best advice I can offer- do what I didn't do: work in the industry while you are in A&P school. Gain experience before you walk around as a licensed A&P. =PC=
Great job!
Did owner assisted annual on our 76 warrior last fall. $650, can’t beat that. IA even signed off on my fiberglass repairs of the nose bowl and fuel tank drains
Awesome video!!
Great video.. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for making this.
Very insightful. Thank you, Dan and John!
Great Video! I didn't think I'd watch it through and through BUT I did. A sure sign of a great video. Thank you for making and posting this! Awesome! :)
I thought that you weren't my cup of tea BUT after looking... I Subscribed.
I always get my hands greasy with every visit my AME - Makes me a better / more informed owner.
Top Job 👌🏻
You are very lucky to have John work on your bird. Probably the best C210 guy in the country. How many days did it actually take? A T210 is a complicated bird, and yours has a lot of options on it that make it even harder to work on: A/C, radar (you still use that old thing?), deice boots, and probably standby vac and alternator. Got to be tough.
This guy is amazing!!
22:09 - Nearly copped a landing gear to the family jewels!
On the 4th of February I’m taking my powerplant written and then hopefully a few days after taking my oral and practical and then the same with airframe. It’s unfortunate there’s a shortage but as a soon to be A&P it’s pretty good job security.
Congratulations. There is a shortage of A&P's. 20 years ago I left corporate and didn't know if I could make it 3-days, 3-months or 3-years. I turn down work nearly every day. There is a big shortage of help out there. If you enjoy Aircraft it is a great trade to be in. I still enjoy it after all these years. Find an area that captures your interest
and stick with it for awhile. There are many avenues you can take with this trade and no need to get locked into one job or one area of expertise less you enjoy it. Have fun!
This is great. I learned a lot.
Very thorough and probably very expensive lol Wing spar to check, retracts...
Let the man talk Dan, know when you listen
I have been doing owner assisted annuals on my P-210 for over 28 years and always still learn something. Curious as to what your remainder compressions were on the cylinders.
To me having the owner involved with doing the annual there would be serious onus on the owner to support mechanic to ensure quality attention and aircraft maintenance!!! I get it that some mechanics don't want an owner assisting or looking over thier shoulder during maintenance but for the most I would think it would be of great benefit to engage and eeducate those that pilot the aircraft!
Congratulations, and thank you for sharing!
I am forever amazed at how filthy owners keep their engines! Keep it clean and do the owner assist so you know first hand what is up. Motor is a motor. I hold no A&P but race car engines and classic car engines are similar. I am real picky about getting torque settings right etc… and I won’t have an annual without being allowed owner assist. I get what John said though, I see people that don’t know flat heads from Phillips heads. They just fly and really don’t seem to know much about the airplane they fly. I see drivers that are the same way. $100k classic/exotic car and no idea what oil to use.
My buddy used to tell people he’s $65 per hour, $100 per hour to watch, $125 per hour to assist and $200 per hour to assist and ask questions 😂
Run MMO in the fuel for a while and try the compression test again.
Looking good for day 147 ! Maybe it was day 14? Good on you for hanging in there!
There’s no way I’d fly in a plane that I did maintenance on 😂
🤣 agree , mechanics is not for everyone
What device are you using to clean under the floor board? Looks like it works pretty well. Great video
I’m using a small painters brush, cheap wooden one, zip tied to a thin dowel
Then work the grit to a drain hole I assume? Or does it stick to the brush?
@@c.r.w.6138 No, I use a paper towel.. after brushing with mineral spirits, I shove paper towel in there and scrub. If I can reach, I flip the brush and use the end of the dowel to move the paper towel around.
10/4 thanks!
As a CPL Student in manitoba canada this was very informative and cool to see.
Best ever, John is wonderful. So grateful, thanks.
Disconnect the bottom plug wires before the compression check !
All the upper plugs are out. What would be the reason for removing lower leads?
@cessnarigging if a hot mag fires a plug it will be the one you are holding at TDC with your hand on the prop and 65 psi in the comb chamber
@@1skywrench Not to say this could never happen but with a FI engine that had all plugs removed and turned over by hand to purge initially with ignition S/W in the off position I have never considered this to be a factor. Much like maintenance manuals warnings that state "disconnect the battery" prior to any operation on the Acft.
@@cessnarigging ha ha yes I know what you mean ! I remember once I was getting ready to follow the instructions for an stc and the first thing it said was " prepare the aircraft for maintenance" so I had a heart to heart talk with the plane and told it "don't worry this will only take a couple days and you will be good as new trust me I've done this a hundred times... you won't feel a thing... etc...
Is it a leek or seepage. Rubber gloves. Was that screwdriver put in backwards? And the blade flat or on edge? Just thinking about that one ☝️
I know where you are going with these questions. Classification & location determines action to be taken. This is spelled out in section13.6-8 of the service manual. No idea about other comments on screwdriver? Gloves? (kidding, but good idea). Unfortunately, a large number of common products in Aviation over my lifetime have been banned by OSHA 10 years after use!
@ Every mechanic has their OCD issues at the end of the day there are ways to register for every thing in it place 🤔
TOOL RULES:
Don’t TOUCH Them
Don’t MOVE Them
Don’t BORROW Them
Don’t EVEN Look at Them
@ Dan is now on PROBATION!
I am a retired firefighter (captain) if I was much younger I would love to learn working on aircraft!
Day 147. Haha. You got a good inspection from an IA that explains well. Nice work
Curious about the cost of fixing the squawks that you found doing the annual?
Still awaiting parts some parts for carry-over items that will be accomplished at a later date.
WRONG !!! 24 psi..? I think NOT. You are supposed to check the Master Orifice reading with JUST the Master Orifice valve open. This guy checked it with BOTH the Master Orifice Valve and the Cylinder Valve open. Done properly you will find that the Master Orifice reading should be ABOUT 42 psi. Depending on atmospheric conditions.
Thank you for pointing this out. I had to go back and watch this again to see what you were referring to. Unfortunately you get raw uncensored takes here. There is no cut-stop action & redo. Not an actor by any means. What happened is I was interrupted from taking the differential reading with questions, trying to focus on the task at hand, answer questions on the spot and have a camera walking around me with Dan right about level with my shoulder. Dare I say distractions! I don't see any way of edits or adding attachments but I assure you the Logbook entry like the previous entries and any logbook I reference Differential Test Results top line states "The following differential test readings were taken: *M.O 43 PSIG" or similar. Dan did another video titled "Cylinder Compression Failure" Episode 64 appx 5-years ago I took part in (Here: th-cam.com/video/nX__4D_m1RQ/w-d-xo.html) along with the fine folks at Superior Air Parts with Bill Ross & Scott Hayes where I did get this right. Apologize for the confusion this might have caused and hopefully I only have to explain this one time.. Thanks again for correcting me on this. I was even surprised I called out the reading out-loud but to be honest I was still focusing on taking the actual test readings as I didn't want the engine to cool down and have to re-do the run-up as these reading were the actual reading for the records.
to comical defending you self , you did not clean it all, saludos I enjoy this video great presentation
Since there is a Shortage of A&P's...what would be the difference between an ASE converting over to an A&P? School wise everything they do has nothing in similarity? There is no reduction in time when they have an ASE in hand converting over to an A&P?
ASE has nothing to do with A&P. It doesn't do anything towards getting your A&P
25 psi in my book , I am calling a money lender. saludos aviator
Enjoyed watching that A&P. Although the background music was way too much.
Agree 100% on the music
Excellent video Dan. Thank you to John for allowing you to film and assist in your annual. I am sure you a dreading his retirement. He is so methodical, and knowledgeable. I’m sure it will be difficult to find an A&PIA that can compare. Thank you for sharing the process with us. Keep up the excellent work. Safe skies my friend 🇺🇸🛩️
I swear, sometimes it seems like more damage is done in annual than would occur flying it for another 100 hours... just from opening up and closing everything.
That's been my experience. Seems a necessary evil. I've found stuff during my annual that needed sorting but also broken, scratched, re-installed things incorrectly.
I'm not an A&P or IA.... but why did he open the master orifice and not close the valve going to the engine? Wouldn't that make the calibration pressure VERY low since it has 2 leakes? From my limited knowledge, the test is OK... but his calibration was wrong. If I'm wrong, please let me know.
Please see reply to @RCB757, you are correct.
So how long did it take? Mine took from Nov 4 to 12/19!
A T210 Annual with 2-3 working, I generally tell Owners a week. If all goes smooth and not a bunch of squawks 4-days on a good day. It all depends upon the current condition, how much preventative maintenance is accomplished between Annuals, how recently accomplished and the operating conditions. There is no 1-size fits all. This includes all the proper service items as well. My intent on an Annual is you should be able to have 100 hrs of squawk-free flying without interruption, everything works as it should.
Please get rid of the music! Thanks!
I dont understand why any owner would not insist on being at least present during the entire annual inspection. Any IA refusing to allow this is a sign that they are lazy and probably cut corners . I can say from experience that probably 75% of all the airplanes ive seen have had items signed off by the previous IA that were in fact not looked at . Like Jon said, it takes a long time to train new mechanics. Its hard to find a qualified mechanic these days because pay is horrible. Excellent video!
Maybe the mechanic wants to concentrate and not be distracted vs "being lazy and cutting corners"
Tough call - 1st of all if a shop does EVERYTHING according to manufacturer’s instructions, every annual of newer aircraft (with an existing proper maintenance manual) takes at least two full weeks. And if the owner is watching (and asking) the mechanic, it‘ll be more. You need to ask yourself: would YOU like to be closely watched during your work by your customers in your profession over an extended period??? Probably not!
So it’s a fine line of trust and verify. I for instance cringe when I see mechanics using battery drill to loosen screws. All screws on my Bonanza have those sharp edges…
The alternative would be to do it all myself. Do I want that? No! So I have to bite the bullet, swallow my pride and let them do their job.
Remove and replace the main joystick actuator
What happens if you're left with an orphan screw once it's all reassembled?
You spend the time searching for an empty hole. I’m guessing that at this gentleman’s level of experience it doesn’t happen.
You try again until you end up with no extra parts.
People make me wonder…
Simple stuff… keep clean…
Isn’t so simple to idiots
So weird plane guys call that a compression test. When car guys do that as a leak down test and actually measure the compression pressure
Believe the master orifice needs to be checked with only the orifice open. You showed the valve open to the cylinder as well, creating two "orifices". The reading is usually around 45-50psi for the master orifice.
Please see reply to @RCB757, you are correct.
He isn’t doing the compression test the way Continental showed us how to do it at an owner’s meeting. The reading is taken at top dead center. You take the highest reading while someone is holding the prop blade. That is the point where the cam has both valves closed. That is also how my A&P has done it for all of the years I owned airplanes.
I have only used A&P’s who allowed only owner assisted annuals. Every annual should be owner assisted. I would be weary of pilots who know nothing about the maintenance and mechanics of their aircraft.
I’ve been to multiple factory schools as well over the years. Performed in the thousand range by now differential checks and recordings from new through TBO. IMHO you need 3-consecutive duplicate readings to get an accurate reading before recording in logbooks. The rings need seated in the direction of rotation repeatedly. If I see more than 2-3 PSIG between prior sample & current, one needs to determine what changed. Those that sample 1st TDC reading can vary up to 10PSIG of actual. One will not have consistent results thus why you see records that vary due to technique . I can track readings year after year or test after test that are repetitive for trend monitoring. I disagree with the initial position where you stop at TDC & record. This is reflected by looking at logbook samples of past entries and doing a comparison. Those that have identical readings year after year on a large bore TCM without any change following the TIS should also be questioned. TCM unlike the Lycoming counterpart will all be consistently reduced over time in service. It is not uncommon to duplicate about 80% with one or two that have a slight variance in that 1-2PSIG max range.
I might add that I’ve never been to an “owners meeting “ so not familiar with that process.
That cheese-grater hose clamp in your wing inspection port next to wires it could chafe looks iffy to me. 16:27 in the video. The end of the band seems to protrude near wiring. I wouldn’t have that in my car, let alone something that could fall out of the sky. Hate on me if you want, but that just looks poorly done and should not be ignored.
You are referring to the factory clamping for the Ice protection (air system for boots). That is all factory and appears primitive however been like that for 7500 hours. A non-issue
Btw as a marine mechanic I have to say dirty never fully cleaned hands are a way of life!
And The final bill was...?
64 psi in my book is I rebuild before 100 hours, see you money saludos aviator
When I was asked if i could do an owner assist annual, I replied we charge more for that.
My heart goes out to you for taking almost 500 days to complete your annual. 😂
Dan is pretty slow
Almost time for his next annual.
Makes you take a pause about ownership but !! only one way to go. First class. It’s your life at stake
👍✅😎
Just a little piece of advice. When the man is talking, listen and stop talking.
West your rubber gloves. That way your hands won’t get so dirty.
Unfortunately. The John’s are disappearing!! Real issue for aviation. Age of aircraft and cost of new off the charts
I know!!
64?? Looks like 68
64
You never did say what was going on with the low cylinder compression........
They staked the valve (hit it with a rubber hammer), as there was carbon build up between the seat and valve, causing it not to seal very well. After that I think they just decided to fly it and check it at a later date.
This “ mechanic “ guy sounds like he don’t “ know exactly “ what he’s talking about .. sounds like he only has an idea !! Tbh I’d definitely find 2 or 3 other people for professional opinions that are experienced in this particular aircraft !!!
Airplane owner asked the mechanic as far as compression goes for the cylinders during the compression test and I quote what is the good bad and ugly assuming he wants the answer and psi and which the mechanic states everything except for exact psi values for good acceptable and unacceptable compression values which would be stated in the aircraft manufacturers manual Secondly while investigating the valves the mechanic took a rubber tip hammer and tapped on the valves under no circumstance would I ever apply shock to my valves because under normal working conditions they never experience shock only tension this is an aircraft engine not a car engine get this guy out of here he’s doing nothing but guessing
th-cam.com/video/nX__4D_m1RQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=v3xoKlykYpFfL-Hg
Very poorly done video. Viewers hear a lot of mumbling and incomplete explanations along with comments from the owner/pilot that reveal a very poor understanding of mechanical principles in general and virtually complete ignorance of how an engine operates.
Mumbling & incomplete explanations are on me. I do have a tendency to talk to myself when working and this was an actual in-work video recording, documenting the inspection along with answering some questions along the course. If we were recording engine mount replacements and on the third mount bolt installation Dan would have to rate it "PG"... We did a "Rigging" video some time ago together where I was not actually working and allowed time for discussion, questions & answers. This was not one of those videos.