Fallout 4's Modular Level Design
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2024
- Large, open-world games like Fallout 4 require an efficient approach to creating many high-quality locations in relatively short period of development. Modular art kits and an iterative level design process are essential to the team at Bethesda Game Studios. This 2016 presentation from Bethesda Game Studios' Joel Burges and Nathan Purkeypile provides an in-depth analysis of the techniques used to create art kits, the level design workflow which takes advantage of them, and the production approach which empowers a relatively small content team to make an enormous world.
GDC talks cover a range of developmental topics including game design, programming, audio, visual arts, business management, production, online games, and much more. We post a fresh GDC video every weekday. Subscribe to the channel to stay on top of regular updates, and check out GDC Vault for thousands of more in-depth talks from our archives.
Follow us on Twitter
/ official_gdc
Checkout our Facebook page for GDC exclusives
/ gamedevelopersconference
www.gdconf.com/ - เกม
OVERVIEW
0:48 Modular Design Overview
3:22 History of Bethesda Kits
FUNDAMENTALS
4:31 Defining the Footprint
5:43 Tiling
6:12 Extents
7:06 Pivot Points
7:58 Transitions
TECHNIQUES
8:47 Layered Inserts
9:40 Local Snap Parents
10:27 Pivot and Flange Kits
PLANNING KITS
13:09 Defining Needs
14:51 Consolidating Kits
GRANULARITY
16:18 Introduction
17:50 Changes to Workflow
18:41 Pack-Ins Prefab
19:21 Kit Readiness and Interdependencies
PRIORITIES
21:56 Valuing Common Elements
25:40 Impact on Level Designers
VARIATION
28:18 Visual Variety with Consistent Logic
29:52 Damaged Platform Kit
30:32 Material Swaps
EXAMPLES
31:23 The Industrial Kit
32:35 The Utility Kit
33:35 The Steam Tunnel Kit
34:12 The Deco Kit (Exterior Buildings)
EXTERIOR DESIGN
35:22 DC in Fallout 3
36:04 New Guidelines
41:17 New Problems
43:11 New Solutions
ASSORTED ADVICE
44:36 Plugs and Sockets
45:11 Kit-Based Destruction
46:10 Platforms
46:55 Dynamic Destruction
47:19 Decals and Greebles
47:44 Layers
48:04 Mouse Wheel Swap
48:31 Helper Markers
49:01 The Machine Kit
FINAL THOUGHTS
50:06 Conclusion
QUESTIONS
51:47 When to Playtest?
52:34 Deciding Player Workshop Items
53:31 Collaborating Artists and Designers
54:24 Solving Performance Problems
56:24 Solving Team Disagreements
59:05 Optimization of Texture Uses
1:00:19 Placeholders and Greyboxes
Good man, have some cake 🍰
You're a goddamned hero!!!!!!! :)
This video was made 6 years ago and it's still the most comprehensive I can find on modular kit building. Very thorough and generous in the variety of information given.
This talk makes the way the settlement workshop was implemented make so much sense. It's a limited version of their kit system adapted for use by the players to make edits in run-time. The part about pivot points for those kits also helps understand how rotating pieces that snap in the settlement workshop works too. Very enlightening.
Not only it was limited, it was also incredibly restrictive and had no flexibility until modded.
Perhaps the limits were put in place to maintain system stability, particularly on the console versions, or to reduce the possible number of configurations to make performing QA on the system more manageable?
@@PlebNC or the devs were trying to protect the settlement system from fobo (fear-of-better-options)
aka Pickle Barrel menu paralysis syndrome :P
also makes it a little clearer how little effort actually went into 76... Compared to other Bethesda games I mean.
I love the "Boston, because fuck you" part.
Um, yeah? I did.
this process reminds me a lot of design methods developed for architecture during the era of historism.
as historism intended to bring back a variety of classical styles, and often elements of multiple of them, architects started more rigidly separating the design of walls and floorplans, and stuck more clearly to the separation of floors, and as a result the style of a wall could be swapped out without impacting the rest of the build, and facades could have inspirations from various builds from one floor to another on top of the same main wall, or occasionally with ornament lines separating floors of different facade material
Great talk! Was very interesting to get an insight in the LD workflow.
Damn, congratulations. Joel is a natural both explaining and talking to a huge audience. One of the best talks I've ever seen.
Long story short:
1. The smaller the pieces the more stuff you can do out of them.
2. The more texturing variation of each piece you have the more variate it can look.
3. Universal kits allow big studios on big scales work faster.
Fun and interesting talk but it also gave me some questions about the oddities surrounding lower graphical settings in Fallout 4. Looking forward to the future talk about "version 3" ;)
Would also be interesting with a 60 minutes talk about the character customization system as well :)
Thank you so much for this talk. I am a junior artist now & looking to improve my level design & this was so much fun to watch. Thank you to the team & both speakers.
one of the best talk on GDC, thank to authors!
Omg that scroll swap option would've saved me sooo much time in the CK xD
fantastic presentation!
I use 3D engines primarily to create pen & paper battlemaps for D&D to run on our large gamingtable-turned-into-a-large-projection-canvas. I hate when I get a bunch of granular pieces to work with and love the whole kit mentality. I want it quick & dirty.
This was either way a good video.
Wow, that is a very useful presentation.
Dracolych69 betheseda may have too many problems , but they talk abou what they do best in their presentations
Great talk!
I appritiate this game far more than before
Very good and informative talk.
What a thirsty man
haha yeah, but I prefer to see someone like him drinking, than that people by nerves gets his mouth dry and makes that disgusting sound while speaking
I prefer zucc drinking water
Great presentation but that was fucking annoying
@@ohmm8891 Yes, it is rude to do that to the audience.
"It's worth playing around with the different types of footprints you can have, for example you could double the height of that same basic footprint and give yourself the same flexibility and tiling on an equilateral horizontal plane but giving yourself a different ability to create a look and feel with additional headroom." 5:22
That's just amazing
Excellent talk to understand more about how Bethesda is doing Level Design, and if you compare their approach with many modders approach you know why some mods are just sub-zero. Now only the CK would need to be up to the job and stop crashing just because you moved your mouse or dared to look at the screen.
i only have ck crash when i'm dropping one of every piece of a kit into a cell to go shopping. maya knows how to crash-on-save ;)
_"We're gonna do a talk we've already done before, 3 years ago, but with some small tweaks"_ - A *very* Bethesda approach. :P
(why is the second chap only given like 2 minutes to speak?)
He's given multiple times to speak throughout the video lol
As an environmental artist this was incredibly interesting, I have to watch this 2 or 3 times through Because this information is great.
Awesome joke :)
"Our next talk will be on how to create modular presentations."
I quite enjoy hearing the talk again. The progression of their design is interesting to look at.
Excellent. Thanks!
That mouse wheel swap is cool as shit! Possible in UE4, maybe?
We can only hope! That was the only part of the presentation that was outstanding to me.
Ryan Martin sure you could do it in ue4... with blueprints even
Had to come and see this =)
Amazing. This is so helpful for me
Is the 2013 talk on naming conventions mentioned on 16:30 still online anywhere?
I really like how bethesda utilizes kits. It adds really nice visual consistency.
“Visual consistency” is a nice way to say recycled assets
@@HieronymousLex every game ever made recycles assets
@@HieronymousLex As someone else mentioned, every game ever has recycled assets. No one wants to code every basic shack from the ground up. And when push comes to shove, game looks fine and no one notices. Not everything has to be made from scratch.
I challenge you to name a single game that doesn't reuse assets. Some studios are just better at dressing them up so you don't notice. Some big popular games even reuse assets from older games. You can get quite a but of variety from clever, creative reuses and applying different materials and texturing.@@HieronymousLex
It really takes working in these things to appreciate what the man's sharing here.
Thanks, GDC. Very very helpful.
Good talk. As a fan of Bethesda Games, thought this was very interesting.
That was amazing!
Take a shot every time someone says "kit"...
tfw "kit" means whale in Russian
Its not the kit itself that is bad; tons of games use them just fine. Stuff like Enderal and Nehrim used even Bethesda kits to make interesting play spaces. It's just the mass repetition that kills it; you can only see the same set of models and textures a few times before it feels like you're visiting the same location over and over. You need good landmarks and visual distinction to make better playspaces. The Concord townhouse is a nice level but the next 3 houses you explore are likely going to all look the same. Same problem with Skyrim caves, same with F3 subways. Bethesda should just make smaller, more distinct worlds.
That and make better animations/movement feel. No momentum in the movement feels awful.
Your comment is ridiculous because they make a video game based on demographic appeal. You saying that they "should" make their worlds/levels smaller to make everything more distinct is like saying that McDonald's should shut down half their stores so they can make what stores remain sell higher quality food. Turning a small local store into a huge franchise is what made them famous. Likewise Bethesda's epic scale of world building is what put them on the map. Most people that go to McDonald's don't want high quality food. If they wanted high quality food they would of gone to health food cafe or a very nice restaurant. There's truth in what you say, that one has to make smaller and more distinct worlds to achieve more appeal visually, but the problem is in reducing the size you also reduce game-play and immersion. Scale is their unique selling point that enable them to ship so many title. I think simply getting them to focus on concept over art at the same scale is what would make everything more distinct.That way you have more variations and just one or two settings lower for graphics (no big deal). I can completely agree with you on the animations/movement feel though. Their combat designers and animators are god awful at keeping up with the quality of combat and movement in other games. In 2006 dark messiah came out. 5 years later: Skyrim turned out to be one of the most disappointing combat experiences I've ever had the mis-fortune of experiencing.
wait now... i can't. climb. a. ladder. ?
@@The_Eno Scale is nothing without quality, ther is not much quality here. Mcdonald are selling better quality food than before. Everyone should learn of their past experience to better themselves. Bethesda are not in my opinion. Now i wish this company would disapear so the right to fallout could be sell to a more worhty company.
@@ebelley Learning from past experiences is a truth I can't deny. We are blessed to repeat that which we don't learn from. However regarding your stance on quality, keep in mind that quantity is a quality in itself. Have a deep think about what mine craft is. The quality of assets, animations, sounds. Everything is so low quality. But there is a sense of scale. There is also an en-thesis on environment interaction. If what you say is true: mine-craft would be nothing. But it's not. It's something. Something very important. Because there is no "better" just different. It's this mindset that separates regular people from game designers and you from me. It also separates free thinkers from sheep and spiritual people from those stuck in their ego. I hope you can remind yourself that no one in the world owes you anything. Perhaps this way you start wishing for things that are in your control :)
Ace there are many different meanings to “should” in terms of feasibility yeah sure, changing a fundamental studio design principal is unlikely to happen.
In terms of what would make a better game, hard disagree. Mankind Divided had the best open world in the last decade and it was tiny.
Also your comparison to McDonalds is pretty ridiculous and digging into it even a little reveals how shallow the comparison is. First of all, the games market is obviously supremely different to prepared food (an industry which has been around almost as long as society itself). Consumers don’t give a shit about the innovation of a cheeseburger but they sure do want better graphics, gameplay, story every single year, even if the games are taking exponentially longer to make. People want experiences that are good, even if they don’t know what Is going to be good. Look at Breath of the Wild: complete departure from one of the longest running and most well established series, but it has sold almost DOUBLE the lifetime record of any other entry in the series.
In conclusion, make good games. BGS will probably only start to change their design philosophy if a “regular” sequel flops. I doubt the failure of 76 will change their minds as they probably just see it as a failed experiment.
that thumbnail tho
Laffter, hahaha, that pic they showed was so random. ^^
When designing a city center, say 500 by 500 meters big, Is it best to block it out using random dimensions, just to get the overall feeling of the level, or should I create and start using kits from the very start?
you should start with a block-out. refer to 38:02
35:53 They made a mistake here by thinking that complicated metro system was a problem that needed to be removed. It was fun to explore the metro system, where does this track go and what will I find there? Let's find out! Yeah it got to be a slog as the game continued but it wasn't something that should have been removed and replaced with independent stations. Remove the walls in the world space was all that needed to be removed. Being able to get completely lost in the Metro was a good thing because it promoted exploration.
i disagree. it was too much. some is okay. but f3's tunnel system was imo uninspiring and overkill. really bored alot of players. too much of a good thing is bad.
FO3's tunnels were annoying and too much because you were forced into using them to get anywhere downtown until you get fast travel markers open. In FO4 you wouldn't be forced to use them so they would be like another dungeon to explore except the entries are in different locations in the game world.
Walking around tunnels that looked like a maze, trying to remember where you came from and trying to define where you should go was definitely not fun
Does anyone know why some of the assets Bethesda show here have so much seemingly unnecessary geometry? Take the cylindrical silos at 31:48 or even just some of the cube shaped assets in the steam tunnel kit at 33:38. They have a bunch of extra edge loops on very simple objects and I can't work out why
I've been using 3DS Max for about 13 years and dabbled in games design for just as long. From what I can tell there seems to be higher poly and lower poly models and also possibly LOD models too It's always best to work forwards than backwards. If they need to change something then it's easier to work with the original higher poly model than you manipulate the low poly. Besides, perchance he just threw this together for the presentation to get his point across lol.
I too thought they could be the higher poly models but the extra geometry on them doesn't seem to add any detail to the model. Honestly the models look like low poly models with a tonne of extra edge loops. Only reason I can see for adding extra edge loops like that is to allow more detailed vertex painting. But they don't touch on vertex painting in this presentation and I would of thought that would be a pretty key aspect of modular design as it helps you break up repetition on your assets.
I'd say it's most likely for texturing purposes.
No reason other than minor aesthetics or simply lazyness due to having to create a lot of items in a short amount of time.
+DigitalPimp
Ether for tiling uvs amd cpmtrping smoothing groups and those arent lods, or incompetence.
Sine you are right, those dont add anything to the shape, and wouldnt have any other justification as fallout 4 dosnt do tessellation, or vertex painting as you said
What about the performance? So many meshes that are individually placed in the editor.
13-14k draw calls in Lexington loading in all at once, it destroys any computer.
They address this in the Q&A.
The object combination tech saved them from a lot of performance issues. If you disable it via mods, or by changing the relevant INI setting, the game becomes completely unplayable in some areas. We're talking single digit frame rates. Even when working, it still breaks down in some places because it was made with typical Bethesda QA (i.e. not much).
Hi great talk learn a lot of stuff, one thing that is not clear to me yet is dimensions on 5:18 you can see he is using numbers that are easily dividable by 2 is that always the case because I also see people using x 20 y 300 z 300 so it snaps perfectly with the grid of unreal?
in cryengine a unit of 1 = 1m instead of 512 = a person. you can't even imagine how much easier that makes the math xD
Local Snap Parent.. I LOVE YOU!
What happened to Joels GDC talk on developing Skyrim?
Before I watched this I was always wondering why I find the level design of Bethesda games so relentlessly boring. To make it abundantly clear. I *get* it. They work in a huge studio, with tons of people. Their games are enormous. They have to shave off as much time and effort as possible. They have to be efficient in ways no one else is. I get that, and the effort they put in is impressive. These people have decades of experience and they're some of the best in the industry.
But man. As a direct consequence of me having felt like the levels are boring *before* knowing how they were made... I just gotta feel like these people have somewhere along the way forgotten important stuff, like avoiding repetition, and making environments feel unique.They clearly put effort into fixing those problems, but IMO they tackle them from completely wrong angles. Instead of putting in the time to create more hero pieces, they double down on the basics. Instead of putting time into the art of it, they're so focused on avoiding being the bottleneck.
ive never played fallout, clicked because that thumbnail
does no one understand what happens if you don't move your mic away when you drink?
ummm... I use unity, and that prefab and modular pieces style of design for everything like walls and floors, plus its variants, is quite an old idea in the community. Guess I had fooled myself into thinking that's how most people were working already. Still, any level designer would love to have access to such huge libraries of modular kits for all his projects. The work they've done is just amazing. Though, I just hope the next time I play the game there's some texture upgrades, lol, some of the original textures were high def and some others... well...
and some others... well... could have easily been replaced by procedural shaders and saved a ton of memory xD
Love Bethesda. Thanks for this.
Perspective on the cube at 5:12 is all wrong compared to the hallway and it hurts my brain
is the 2013 talk somewhere online?
David Ville can only find incomplete slides and a more complete transcription ( with images thankfully )
No wonder why I really didn't enjoy dungeon raiding in Skyrim but enjoy it a lot in Fallout 4. XD
Классный материал!!
How exactly are they doing the mouse-wheel swap? CTRL + mousewheel does nothing with selected piece in the creation kit.
I dont get what means the "Hero Piece" that they talk...
Somebody?
+Monitoria Chris
I assume he means a custom asset for this a particular scene, building style.
Like a unique sculpture or pair of elaborate staircase.
Its a bad approach, i mean not having them. Other studios will often build entire levels around such assets. Like a giant world tree in Zelda or a very unique looking building in any other game.
It's the "set piece" objects. I.e. unique specialty objects that really define a place. An example might be the rocket engine found in Arcjet Labs in Fallout 4. Only 2 of those engines exist in the game; the other is found on a flatbed truck south of that location. Another might be the giant metal globe within the Gunner Plaza.
For the section on destructive elements like holes in walls and floors, do you guys think they were textures put on a plane with some sort of alpha that tells where the hole will be and what its shape is, or were the hole variations physically modeled? I'm moving to this kind of modular workflow and I'm wondering if most of it is still modeled, or if the result comes from "texture wizardry" placed over shaped planes. I'm not sure if this makes sense, but if anyone could verify that would be awesome. For instance, I'm making wall pieces that are supposed to be old wooden planks. I want some of these planks to have holes in them so you can see through to the outside, as well as outside light streaming in through the hole. I'm not sure if I should model the individual planks with holes in the actual geometry of the model and arrange them over a plane for snapping purposes, or if I should make a "wooden wall with holes texture" with alpha information telling the plane where the holes should be.
Thanks for any responses!~
i opened one of the workshop shack balcony pieces in nifskope, and a tiny hole that could easily have been alpha
was meticulously cut out of the 1"x8" plank, maybe so that projectiles could occasionally slip through that gap?
The holes in Fallout 4 are mostly actual geo as far as I know, and it's also how I would do it myself.
1. It's very easy to create gaps or holes in the geometry itself, especially for flat walls.
2. You don't need a new alpha mask for every different looking wall piece if the hole is modeled, saving vram and draw calls.
3. If a wall has thickness and you use an alpha, the inside perimeter of the hole would not be filled.
4. Using alpha masks results in overdraw in games, which can negatively affect framerate.
So actual geometry would be the way to go imo.
I'm just a student tho so take all that with a grain of salt c:
Really inpiring for artists this way of thinking!
I got a creation kit boner. awsome video
Gdc talk Bethesda
Too bad they didnt take any of their own advice for the settlement construction on the player side. Not a single window in the vanilla set, come the fuck on
43 17 modular cities
Fallout 4 has many problems, but since i can choose, i choose to enjoy the game for it's good things.
I love Fallout 4.
Dude I salute you. While I can see why fallout 4 may look like a bad game to most, I thought it was very very very fun. In my book I call that a good game.
there is a mod called Mercy for skyrim where npc behaviour doesn't foster a sociopathic distrust of people begging for their lives.
i would be happy if raiders chased you off for stealing, took pot shots on your way past them if you killed one of them,
and went full-on bloodlust if you actually attack them personally. but going 0-60 for walking through their camp is just mental.
Just to think they threw out 100% of what is in this talk for starfield
😂😂 True
Wow so beast =)
Пофиг, что пишу не на том языке, но! Но, видно, что очень многие по просту не понимаю, что по такому же принципу строятся все уровни в любой игре, в которую Вы играете. Плюс/минус свои внутристудийные нюансы.
the best visual effects / CG are the ones people don't think are effects.
people equate kits with bethesda because they are so noticeable.
Ice posidon works at bethesda?
7:57
Standardizing is always great, constancy is very important.
thsisitn a new thignthis has been or atleast i thought others have been doign thsi forever ...
the thumbnail is an accurate representation of bethesda's work on the fallout ip
It's really really sad when Obsidian gets a short amount of time to make a fallout game, and they make a masterpiece. But then Bethesda gets to make a new one with a new engine and everything, and they just make a minecraft/CoD clone. It was a good game, just not a good fallout game, and certainly not an RPG?
Satanjugend yeah i'm flagging this for misleading thumbnails
By turning it from a DEAD franchise to a billion dolar one?
DEAD? They were the ones who killed it. Van Buren would've happened.
Im sure nostalgia plays a pretty big role, i went back to play the old ones and they were absolute trash.
I get a kick out of how they act like this is some kind of new idea. We were doing this sort of tileset thing with swap out textures, damage, decals, etc. 20 years ago. I remember a dev who had worked on the Stargate MMO seeing one of my "walldolls"(tm), an interchangeable wall texture setup, and claiming, "Now that's how you get a raise!". That was in I think 2008. He was impressed with something I had already left behind as being old hat from several years prior.
So what do you use instead nowadays?
I mean this technique is also used in Daggerfall and Morrowind.
The point of conference to tell your experience with it, I presume.
Yeah, for the people who Actually work in game dev , this talk is really interesting and useful
Wait, does the dude have painted fingernails?
weiter!
15.10.2017 22.34
Robots are property, like toasters.
"We try to keep it balanced between how much we want it to look good and how much we want it to work good..."
So... they just chose to go with... neither...
Kevin Walter every presentation Bethesda gives seems very sound , and they have talked about how to reuse assets to reduce development time and use iterative design to improve gameplay , yet their titles take 5 years and 90 percent of fallout 4 quests consist of go here , kill enemies and retrieve item .
There's context for this.
Bethesda's games are larger than most other games on the market.
Bethesda has a development team of around 100 members... they've hardly hired new developers at all over the course of the 15 years.
These two things explain long development costs.
My problem with the statements made in this video are with the fact that Fallout 4 runs so poorly, and at the same time, isn't exactly the best looking game on the market. They have serious issues with optimization, and considering Skyrim had the same issues but to a lesser extent, and some of those issues were fixed when they updated the game to run on DX11... it seems to me that they're focusing on the wrong aspects of game design here. They're focused more on the form than the function, and the games are suffering for it.
I think that fallout 4 lack of graphic complexity and performance doesn't have to do with Bethesda's workflow , but rather with the creation engine . I have been fiddling with a ue4 plugin that implements modular game design using a massive number of meshes , but It can run cities fast , because it uses instancing and performant occlusion culling , about the graphical complexity , let me quote one of my earlier comments :
the game may be visually appealing , as the models have a good art direction and be based on a good material system , but to have good PBR games also need a realistic context ( ilumination ) and f4 doesnt have one (there is no bounce lighning and the reflections are fake as they are always the same , don't change depending on the location ) without it the game would have been better using a more artist controlable non pbr system .
Well the game uses cubemaps for all reflections, so there's that.
Would be nice if Bethesda brought in id to help update the Creation Engine.
But yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. They're trying to push these larger, more cluttered environments and the engine is being crushed under the weight of it. It's destroying performance and the game's visuals don't support the impact, so the average player just looks at it and thinks "well this game sucks because the framerate is all over the place and it looks like it was released in 2010..."
As I said, Skyrim had similar issues running on DX9.5/10. The pushed the API to its limits and the game suffered for it... especially if you tried to pile more and more mods on top of it. When SSE was released updated to run on DX11 and given a 64 bit process, many of the issues that 32 bit Oldrim had were nearly eliminated. The memory issues are gone and you can easily spawn in dozens of NPCs without crashing/freezing the game or destroying the framerate, there are a bunch of graphical updates that run better than ENB and give Boris more efficient ways of hooking into the engine... the list goes on.
It's an issue of Bethesda putting the cart before the horse. They're piling more and more on top of the engine and it's being crippled in the process, which flushes performance right down the toilet.
This just makes me appreciate the world of Fallout 4 even more than I already did.
Wow. Did we play the same game? The game is trash sir
@@chriss1672 people are allowed to have different opinions, and there isn’t a clear consensus on “is fallout 4 bad or good”. Many different people loved fallout 4, even if many other people also hated it.
Bethesda is onto a winner as long as they keep the files open to modding.
id say that I enjoyed the game after modding it to the point of building a new game. (180hrs in, I made it to Diamond City, as for Shaun, dont ever giv a s***). Overall, FO4 is very much worth my £40.
I wish people would stop judging FO4 based on Fallout 1 and 2. Not all games need to be the same.
The question is are they fun? I have had lots of fun in FO4 and see no reason to pine for the iso rpgs made earlier.
The game is what it is. Wishing it was Fallout 1/2 doesn't make it trash except maybe to you.
Oh, and I bought both of the first 2 games and won both many times.
People simply wish it would have proper writing with signature rpg elements that made previous games great. New Vegas was a proof that you can make a proper open world game with excellent stories to be told while still on dated engine and development cycle that was cut short by Bethesda and it forced Obsidian to rush the game.
Peon Greenjoy THANK YOU! And David Medlock, I'm judging it based on FO3 and Skyrim. Namely that FO3 was a brilliant entrepreneurial move that managed to pay homage to the original and utilize a preexisting engine while innovating enough to make something distinctive from both the previous Fallout entries AND Oblivion. I tried Fallout 4 for the free weekend, and I expected to be playing it at least 24 hours, since I loved Fallout 3 and Skyrim. But a few hours in I realized that I might as well just be playing one of those games, or Rust, or Minecraft even. I made 3 trips to scrap all the shit I got from clearing out the raiders and Deathclaw outside the Freedom Museum, and in the middle of scrolling through crafting options and thinking about how now apparently I had to build a settlement, I thought, "isn't one of the most viral songs from this game talking about being a wanderer? All I've done so far is stayed mostly in two places. And if things are going to be as uneventful as the trip from Sanctuary to Concord, what's the point in wandering?" Granted, these are just my first thoughts, but very quickly into Fallout 3 I had already stumbled into enough sidequests to get me engaged. The "Them!" quest with the mutant ants, Moira's work on the Wasteland Survival Guide, deciding whether to obey or narc on Burke, hell, fixing the leaks in the water pipes! My first thoughts in Skyrim? "Ooh! where does THIS lead? What's THAT? What's up THERE?" And usually I got satisfactory answers. FO4, perhaps in part because of the "modular" approach of populating levels with many copies of similar objects, seemed more time-consuming and tedious. I was giving in to my OCD, breaking stuff down, storing it. I wouldn't have said it was particularly FUN, though. I was expecting maybe a letter from vault-tec in one of the mailboxes in my now-ruined suburb I had all of 10 minutes to get attached to before it got nuked? Nope. I DID find an auto shop with entries about car repairs that, SURPRISE! stop when the bombs fall, and as far as I can tell offer NO relevant information to anything else, no sidequest where I have to inform the dead employee's next of kin, who happens to be a ghoul or something. Emotional stuff, something more than "this was a business until NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST BECAUSE WAR WAR NEVAR CHANGES!!" But nah. Actually, to be fair, I DID find a dog, and it helped me kill lots of mole rats there. So there's that. 10/10 Excuse me while I pay the discounted price of $36 to get the game in its entirety.
“Not all games need to be the same”
Yes and no. Games in the same franchise do need some level of consistency.
The Zelda games differ significantly from each other, but there are several core things that connect them. They all have dungeons that revolve around the games core mechanics, such as the vehicle mechanics in totk.
Fallout 3 differs from the previous games with the implementation of the 3d world and combat. But the rpg mechanics were basically copy pasted from the first two. It’s different, but not so much that it feel like a different game. It’s still an rpg, even if it moved a dimension over.
Fallout 4 differs in how it’s not an rpg. I mean it’s still technically one, but how dialogue is implemented speaks for itself. You can’t decide the outcomes of quests in the same way you could in the tenpenny tower quest from 3, or the quest with gizmo from fo1. A general lack of player agency in other words. And the lack of the generic skills in favour of perks makes it harder to make your character your own. It feels like your playing different versions of Nate or Nora rather than your own character. It’s a role play game with the ability to role play cut down.
That’s the issue with 4, that’s why so many people dislike it. When people expect it to be like fallouts one or two, it’s because they expect it to be of the same genera because it’s part of the same franchise.
he forgot to mention that fallout 4 is a mod for skyrim
Except it really isn’t. You really need to learn to differentiate between different rpg mechanics.
This whole TALK is sumed up by "how can we recycle as much as possible". =/
Nothing wrong with that. ^^
One thing Bethesda really needs to be careful about is utilizing various forms of design to avoid the feeling of empty repetition for the player. Oblivion was notoriously terrible for its Lego-block dungeons, all with uniform enemy lists, uniform loot lists, and utter lack of uniqueness. If it wasn't tied to a quest it was completely boring and forgettable, like a Daggerfall dungeon.
While core utility of the level editor is indeed quite important, it's up to the artists and storytellers to make an area unique and fun to explore. One office building needs to feel different from another, industrial plants should also feel different and have different things happening within them. It's something they've put some attention to with Skyrim and Fallout 4, but remains of paramount importance for the player experience, which is what ultimately matters when selling a game.
Combining artistic aspects of world design and story telling are what will really "sell" a place to the player. It doesn't always have to be batches of pink slime in a school, but other schools should have their own thing happening, like the Bosco gang. Somewhat less successful was the Judge Zeller school, as that physical space was short and ho-hum, aside from the stage area with the victims arrayed. But the stage aspect helped sell the area.
Well the only thing BGS is good at nowadays *is* just the world-building so I guess this is a very insightful presentation.
savage
This is probably coming from someone without a degree in anything and almost no skills in any kind of video game development right?
James Binnie Irrelevant. But nice try. Telematics engineering.
i know that was your attempt at a burn, but you kind of self-sabotaged by expanding the standard quest plotline to:
travel to location. take in 1000s of hours of painstaking lookdev. kill enemies. retrieve item. that's a 33% plotline buff :P
World crafting is probably the better term.
ecce homo at 12:18
They really needed a comp sci major. Those solutions seem really obvious imo.
Yeah how tf is recycling assets anything new or revolutionary? It’s an unfortunate byproduct of games getting too large to be hand built
Have another drink.
dude needs to time his drinks until it’s not his turn to speak because oh my god who doesn’t hate that sound
Get over it
@@fraundakelmbrilpondaprost90 no u
fallout 76 is a base building fortnite clone confirmed.
oh yeah so taht why skyrim caves all feel like the same shitty cave over and over and over again
what an ironic talk. he effectively argues against the points he tries to make.
"the reading rooms it the most important room, and needs set pieces" how would you even know that was a library?
"one swap makes it feel unique" no. having the deterioration in teh exact same places in the walls is worse and more uncanny than having many places have the same wall paper.
Legos
I like the part where he was talking about how they couldn't make the reading room look like the reading room because their engine is garbage and they didn't want to invest the time into making something they couldn't use in many other places. A+ devs
Pretty sure it would have been faster to create entire room in 3D instead of slapping modular pieces until "it just works".
@@HyborianYT see: Megascans ;)
heh?
big gulp
ag
AAre there always macbooks at GDC?
Fallout 4 has the best PBR graphics I've seen. Haven't played FFXV yet though.
satellite964 not really , the models may have a good art direction and be based on a good material system , but to have good PBR games also need a realistic context ( ilumination ) and f4 doesnt have one (there is no bounce lighning and the reflections are fake as they are always the same , don't change depending on the location ) without it the game would have been better using a more artist controlable non pbr system .
Diego Antonio Rosario Palomino Which game has the best in your opinion?
If you're looking for super awesome PBR, Uncharted 4 did it extremely well.
***** are you studying how games work ? , If that is the case I would recommend against studying how specific ones implement lightning , level creation and such , but checking how game engines do it , then go back to what you are doing now ( checking gdc )
Ryan Martin it would be much better to check games avaible on pc , and then , ones that use a publicly avaible engine ( I don't know if this is the best example , but gears of war is on pc and uses ue4
Edit : I remembered , ark would be better , it also uses ue4 and offers modding support)
Modular environment is the only way you can build these huge ass games,at least for now,in future when we have better hardware,i think this will not play big role.
no you idiot.
Game companies are doing that RIGHT NOW. Bethesda is infamous for re-using assets and avoiding custom levels whenever possible. They would rather build a world of premade pieces than take the time and effort to build more interesting environments.
please give one example of an open world game that doesnt reuse assets
Bethesda phoning it in looks so much worse since Witcher 3.
Did they seriously get bethesda to do a conference on level design?
Fallout and Skyrim have horribly dull level design! It's just tunnels connecting to other tunnels and galleries!
It's a great video on modular design flow. He talks about all the concepts level designers should be aware of that companies have been using for years. So it's good for students of level design like myself to become more familiar and write down concepts I haven't read enough about. But yeah Totally agree with you. Extremely dull atmosphere, but the story and level design over-all are excellent. I would blame the engine and art director for the dull atmosphere. I'm sure the artist would make it much prettier if they had it their way.
I must say that I miss Morrowind and Oblivion, Fallout 2,1, classic, tatics more than them.
@@thanatosor I swear Oblivion even with its kits still felt like it had more varied dungeon design than Skyrim. Skyrim dungeons = "linear circle with unlockable quick exit".
Even so this talk does have a lot of useful information.
I feel like Bethesda has been working on how to avoid making a game themselves.
To bad the writing dragged the game down, should of remembered Morrowind.
Was game testing another "time sink"
tis a shame that fallout 76 failed so hard. could have been great, i mean with these tools and tech.
It would require an entire new engine to be great. Slapping basic connectivity on top of an outdated engine for single player game is not the same as building a new one dedicated to multiplayer.
Fo4 is full of identical repeating trash. Your mind just blocks it out and ignores it while you're playing, cause you've seen the same pile of trash a hundred times, and it's always totally irrelevant to gameplay and story and general feel of the game.
The game isn't terrible though. It's just a soulless uninspired by-the-numbers corporate indeavor. It's meh, but it's playable.
All due respect to artists, designers, animators, and programmers though. I get it. It's a job. you did as well as they let you. And you did accomplish amazing things, all things considered
Boring level design - THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU WORK IN SILOS.