There are different ways to get the heat around a house with air to air other than individual units for each section of the house with central air systems, lots of properties in the UK have loft space big enough for a central unit to feed warm air through ducting throughout the house.
Very true - I have friend with a two bed semi, and he has 2 x wall mounted fan coil units downstairs heating/cooling the ground floor and 1 x ducted unit it the loft heating and cooling the bedrooms/first floor - plus a connection to a hot water cylinder - all connected to a single outdoor unit, it all replaced 3 storage heaters and an electric immersion and has saved him a fortune (not to mention the fact that he could cool his whole home during the summer when the heat got to much) - the problem isn’t with heat pump technology the problem is with the distribution, take away the middleman by removing the radiators and you will have the most efficient and economical heating system you can get
@@gamwam Very true- and if you are heating the air, you can integrate an air exchange heat exchanger for even more efficiency. In a well insulated house, air change is the major heat loss.
You have missed out a very important aspect. If you are replaceing a Gas Fired Bolier you need to allow for Gas costing four times less than electricity per KW Hr so the cost of running will be around 125% with a heat pump compared to an air source pump. Also in the examples you showed it seems to me that an air to air heat pump in each room could cost less than a single system trying to heat the whole house. Also there would be savings by turning off heating in rooms not in use. What I am finding incredably frustrating in researching this topic is that no one seems to want to quote actual price examples for anything. It would be much better to have some case studies of a few types of house with actual hardware and installation costs.
Hello David, Thank you for your comment. It is true, that depending on your heating needs and goals it might make more financial sense to go for an air to air heat pump, especially if you want to avoid a huge redo of your central heating system with underfloor heating and radiators. On our blog post you can find price examples for running costs of heat pumps as well as their installation, compared to a gas boiler. We also agree that case studies would be very informative, and hope to be able to provide those in the future. www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/08/the-running-costs-of-heat-pumps Best regards, GreenMatch
This is hugely biased towards air to water and doesn't cover air to air properly at all. I am actually considering air to air, because although there is no 6K grant in the UK for air to air, the price of air to water is significantly inflated because of the grant and It would be cheaper for me to install an air to air system. What they don't say is houses have doors and rooms can be independently heated to whatever temperatures you want, when you want, and not heated when unused. They also don't mention that an air to air system will warm a room in 10m from switch on, for an air to water heat pump it takes hours to get the house warm. The Highly efficient multi splits are what I am looking at.
Same here, I have been using a portable one this winter and over the summer (16000BTU) which just like all single hose units is highly inefficient and fairly noisy but its had no touble keeping the living room warn and cool respectivly but going for a full multisplit with 2 condensers one at the rear feeding 3 inside units and one at the front feeding 3 inside units. As for cost its been insanely cheap because I have an EV and use a EV tariff so I get cheap electricity overnight with a large home battery storage I dont use that much peak electricity. I just had my 6 month bill from EDF covering up until 20th january and I only used £430 in electricity and that includes all the running costs for the house including heating and about 4000 miles of driving. My gas bill for the 6 month was £180 and thats just done hot water and nothing else.no heating or anything else.
Exactly, Even if you have every with a heater it's still much cheaper than having the grant and all the extra cost of larger pipe work and water tanks , im hoping to have it done in a few weeks for less than £5k .
Good explanation, but completely ignores the air conditioning aspect. If you are willing to spend a bit of up-front cost for the convenience of air conditioning, then the addition of _localized and efficient_ heating essentially comes free. Imagine a home office in the time of (post-) corona, which can be efficiently heated in the cold, without needing to heat up the entire house. And in the summer (EVERY summer people are surprised by a heat wave, really?) that same home office can be air conditioned to allow working efficiently and ergonomically in the home office.
I have had air to air for 10 years. My house is 100 years old and built of stone. It is well insulated. I heat my water for baths etc.. using water filled solar panels, topped up if necessary using cheap overnight electricity. The units have never broken down or needed any maintenance. It meets all my heating needs - about 22- 24 Celsius, and cooling needs. I live in Finistere. The units can be controlled via an app, which enables me to pre heat or cool the house, before I return
@@markthomasson5077 im getting A2A next month i asked Toshiba after watching a video of one of his installations but he said his advice to that customer was to have a Mitsubishi system im not sure what model im getting yet .
Good luck with being able to do that with an air to water heat pump and radiators...because it won't work (physics). If it did, where would all the condensation go?
@@DaveCorbey They make fan coils in the same format as the a2a units that can be floor ,ceiling or wall mounted, the difference being that one use a refrigerant to transfer the heat (cold) , and the other uses a heated or cooled fluid. Codensate from either one is directed to the outside by gravity or a condensate pump if the location does not permit direct disposal. Either one can produce DHW in equal amounts.
my concerns with air to air cold climate heat pumps are proper installation and the cost in maintenance and cleaning to maintain efficiency. At least with air to water cold climate heat pumps the refrigerant is contained in the outdoor unit and we are not so much relying on proper refrigeration installation. Also, the air to water can provide cooling in summer with the right indoor units. I am not comfortable with 4 flare nuts to contain the refrigeration charge.
I'm looking at the options for a village hall: open plan but large, currently heated with a string of 2kW wall mounted fan heaters. The one query I have is why the A2A systems are described in the video as not able to put out adequate heat, but only suitable as supplementary heating. Does anyone understand that part? Is it that the kW output of the units is limited, or that they don't work effectively in really cold weather (and if the latter, why is this not equally true for A2W)? I'd hope that the video presenter might answer but I don't see that they are moderating comments..
Some well known air con manufacturers give warranties of 10 years with an average expectancy of 20 years. Not much different to 'air to water' ASHPs? Also ASHPs rely on low temperature running all day long for effect and supposed financial saving. The government vs large 100 year expensive old housing stock vs 'real' global carbon credit market vs random contingency. You decide? Where do domestic consumers get any 'carbon credit incentive' within the UK financial system? Apart from 'un-means tested' supply side grants and lower electric bills? The carbon offsetting concept has arrived a little too late to be useful on the global 'drifting oil tanker' carbon footprint?
Thank you for clarifying the differences between these types of Heat Pumps. So combined with the latest Solar Panels this could be a viable alternative to a Gas Boiler. The only worry I'd have is what about the water used for Baths and Showers? I seen a number of posts by Plumbers and owners of Heat Pumps saying they are not achieving the same temperature as they had with Gas Boiler systems.
There are different ways to get the heat around a house with air to air other than individual units for each section of the house with central air systems, lots of properties in the UK have loft space big enough for a central unit to feed warm air through ducting throughout the house.
Very true - I have friend with a two bed semi, and he has 2 x wall mounted fan coil units downstairs heating/cooling the ground floor and 1 x ducted unit it the loft heating and cooling the bedrooms/first floor - plus a connection to a hot water cylinder - all connected to a single outdoor unit, it all replaced 3 storage heaters and an electric immersion and has saved him a fortune (not to mention the fact that he could cool his whole home during the summer when the heat got to much) - the problem isn’t with heat pump technology the problem is with the distribution, take away the middleman by removing the radiators and you will have the most efficient and economical heating system you can get
@@gamwam Very true- and if you are heating the air, you can integrate an air exchange heat exchanger for even more efficiency. In a well insulated house, air change is the major heat loss.
Really clear video explaining the differences, well done!
Finally a video that answered my questions. I have watched about 60 of them. Thank you.
You have missed out a very important aspect. If you are replaceing a Gas Fired Bolier you need to allow for Gas costing four times less than electricity per KW Hr so the cost of running will be around 125% with a heat pump compared to an air source pump.
Also in the examples you showed it seems to me that an air to air heat pump in each room could cost less than a single system trying to heat the whole house. Also there would be savings by turning off heating in rooms not in use.
What I am finding incredably frustrating in researching this topic is that no one seems to want to quote actual price examples for anything. It would be much better to have some case studies of a few types of house with actual hardware and installation costs.
Hello David,
Thank you for your comment. It is true, that depending on your heating needs and goals it might make more financial sense to go for an air to air heat pump, especially if you want to avoid a huge redo of your central heating system with underfloor heating and radiators.
On our blog post you can find price examples for running costs of heat pumps as well as their installation, compared to a gas boiler. We also agree that case studies would be very informative, and hope to be able to provide those in the future.
www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/08/the-running-costs-of-heat-pumps
Best regards, GreenMatch
Absolutely 100% true
Not four times less- that would be -3! You actually mean one quarter the cost.
This is hugely biased towards air to water and doesn't cover air to air properly at all. I am actually considering air to air, because although there is no 6K grant in the UK for air to air, the price of air to water is significantly inflated because of the grant and It would be cheaper for me to install an air to air system. What they don't say is houses have doors and rooms can be independently heated to whatever temperatures you want, when you want, and not heated when unused. They also don't mention that an air to air system will warm a room in 10m from switch on, for an air to water heat pump it takes hours to get the house warm. The Highly efficient multi splits are what I am looking at.
Me too!
Same here, I have been using a portable one this winter and over the summer (16000BTU) which just like all single hose units is highly inefficient and fairly noisy but its had no touble keeping the living room warn and cool respectivly but going for a full multisplit with 2 condensers one at the rear feeding 3 inside units and one at the front feeding 3 inside units.
As for cost its been insanely cheap because I have an EV and use a EV tariff so I get cheap electricity overnight with a large home battery storage I dont use that much peak electricity.
I just had my 6 month bill from EDF covering up until 20th january and I only used £430 in electricity and that includes all the running costs for the house including heating and about 4000 miles of driving.
My gas bill for the 6 month was £180 and thats just done hot water and nothing else.no heating or anything else.
Exactly, Even if you have every with a heater it's still much cheaper than having the grant and all the extra cost of larger pipe work and water tanks , im hoping to have it done in a few weeks for less than £5k .
@@RandomNoob just what i thought im having A2A less work and much less than with a grant
Why can’t air to air cover all heating needs? Can you not just increase the size of the system as needed?
Clear and well-reasoned differences in the two kinds of heat pumps. Thanks a lot!
Good explanation, but completely ignores the air conditioning aspect. If you are willing to spend a bit of up-front cost for the convenience of air conditioning, then the addition of _localized and efficient_ heating essentially comes free. Imagine a home office in the time of (post-) corona, which can be efficiently heated in the cold, without needing to heat up the entire house. And in the summer (EVERY summer people are surprised by a heat wave, really?) that same home office can be air conditioned to allow working efficiently and ergonomically in the home office.
If AtoA is more efficient, why do you say it will not be enough? Just add more units!
Exactly what I thought
I have had air to air for 10 years. My house is 100 years old and built of stone. It is well insulated. I heat my water for baths etc.. using water filled solar panels, topped up if necessary using cheap overnight electricity. The units have never broken down or needed any maintenance. It meets all my heating needs - about 22- 24 Celsius, and cooling needs. I live in Finistere. The units can be controlled via an app, which enables me to pre heat or cool the house, before I return
Sounds good. What make / model
@@markthomasson5077 im getting A2A next month i asked Toshiba after watching a video of one of his installations but he said his advice to that customer was to have a Mitsubishi system im not sure what model im getting yet .
The air to water heat pump DOES have the cooling function. It circulates cold water to extract the heat load from a room. Thanks for your video.
Good luck with being able to do that with an air to water heat pump and radiators...because it won't work (physics). If it did, where would all the condensation go?
@@DaveCorbey They make fan coils in the same format as the a2a units that can be floor ,ceiling or wall
mounted, the difference being that one use a refrigerant to transfer the heat (cold) , and the other uses a
heated or cooled fluid. Codensate from either one is directed to the outside by gravity or a condensate
pump if the location does not permit direct disposal.
Either one can produce DHW in equal amounts.
my concerns with air to air cold climate heat pumps are proper installation and the cost in maintenance and cleaning to maintain efficiency. At least with air to water cold climate heat pumps the refrigerant is contained in the outdoor unit and we are not so much relying on proper refrigeration installation. Also, the air to water can provide cooling in summer with the right indoor units. I am not comfortable with 4 flare nuts to contain the refrigeration charge.
Great video. Thank you for explaining it so clearly.
Very imformative
Great video. Very clear and well explained. Thanks
I'm looking at the options for a village hall: open plan but large, currently heated with a string of 2kW wall mounted fan heaters. The one query I have is why the A2A systems are described in the video as not able to put out adequate heat, but only suitable as supplementary heating. Does anyone understand that part? Is it that the kW output of the units is limited, or that they don't work effectively in really cold weather (and if the latter, why is this not equally true for A2W)? I'd hope that the video presenter might answer but I don't see that they are moderating comments..
Some well known air con manufacturers give warranties of 10 years with an average expectancy of 20 years. Not much different to 'air to water' ASHPs? Also ASHPs rely on low temperature running all day long for effect and supposed financial saving. The government vs large 100 year expensive old housing stock vs 'real' global carbon credit market vs random contingency. You decide? Where do domestic consumers get any 'carbon credit incentive' within the UK financial system? Apart from 'un-means tested' supply side grants and lower electric bills? The carbon offsetting concept has arrived a little too late to be useful on the global 'drifting oil tanker' carbon footprint?
Air to air can provide the total heat just buy a bigger unit or install more of them.
Thank you for clarifying the differences between these types of Heat Pumps. So combined with the latest Solar Panels this could be a viable alternative to a Gas Boiler. The only worry I'd have is what about the water used for Baths and Showers? I seen a number of posts by Plumbers and owners of Heat Pumps saying they are not achieving the same temperature as they had with Gas Boiler systems.