During the Xinhai Revolution, there were numerous proposals advocating for the replacement of the Manchu-led Qing dynasty by a new dynasty of Han ethnicity. Kong Lingyi (孔令貽), a 76th-generation descendant of Confucius and the Duke of Yansheng, was identified as a potential candidate for Chinese emperorship by Liang Qichao. Meanwhile, gentry in Anhui and Hebei supported a restoration of the Ming dynasty under Zhu Yuxun (朱煜勳), the Marquis of Extended Grace. Both suggestions failed to materialize.
Try out the HOI4 mod Age of Imperialism. Its a mod that explores what if World War 1 never happened. You can play this dynasty as the Empire of China. You're also supprted by the German Empire and the Italian Empire. The other two contenders of uniting China in this mod are the Qing (supported by the British, through Japan, and the Russians) and the Republic of China (supported by the Americans).
I hope you finish your mod it’d be interesting to see new Chinese empire, but if I can say anything please add multiple focus like going to war with French or not. Just for RP purposes😭
That seems like a great scenario, but also I would probably have the Hongxian Emperor survive longer, possibly if he didn't catch uremia, making him live as far as 1939-1941, even doing all that Yuntan Emperor would, just my modification of of the scenario.
Ok great video, but the picture you used for Yuan Keding is a picture of Li Jing, a famous Chinese Xiangsheng (talk show) actor. No one will know but it is just very funny to see that because a random guy put it in a wiki post and now you are using it. Keep up!
@EvilEgg331Perhaps if It happened during the iberian union the odds would be in favor, Spain and portugal, the 2nd and 3rd greatest world super powers against the 1st
I did not know that was real until I searched it up. The plan was known as _Empresa de China_ or "China enterprise". Maybe Spain could have occupied Formosa (present-day Taiwan) and the coastal areas, but it would have struggled against guerrilla resistance further inland.
Two scenarios of sorts: 1. What if the United Kingdom defeated the Tokugawa Shogunate and colonised Japan during the closing days of the Shogunate? And what if in response, the Russian Empire colonised Korea to counter Britain? And what if in response to that, the British annex the island of Formosa around the similar time as when the Japanese did in OTL? 2. What if British dominions/commonwealth countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa had monarchs installed (appointed from members of the House of Windsor) under a made up version of the Statute of Westminster 1931?
Before the Mongol-led Yuan Dynasty, Chinese dynasties usually took the name of the region they first ruled over. Given that the Yuan were not native to China, they ended up abandoning this practice, and instead the dynasty would be named by its founder with the prefix "Great/Da".
Kung Te-Chen’s a descendant of Confucius was also offered the throne by the Japanese during their occupation of China. He declined as he grew up in the Republic. If the Japanese did somehow manage to succeed in their eastern plan or carried it out earlier it’s entirely possible that his grandson would now be the emperor of China.
Enjoying your content. Glad I subscribed. If I may put in a request… I’ve often wondered what a Venetian Republic that survived into the 20th century would look like. Toyed with the idea myself, but I’d be interested in seeing your take on it. Keep making great content.
What if after that you had the Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian-Russian-Finnish-North Korean-Mongolian-German-French-Swedish-Norse-Swiss-Italian Commonwealth succeeded that? In this exact order?
Also after Yuan Shikai's downfall. A group of pro-Qing dynasty officers made a temporary comeback. Then easily crushed by other Warlords. (Made a final return after the Dynasty become Imperial Japanese puppet state)
Could you do a scenario in which the Stuarts flee to the colonies during the English civil war and basically manage to create a (surviving) version of what happened with Brazil later on in otl with them. Would be interesting to see a Catholicized monarchist American empire with such early origins/independence.
I propose a scenario that Cardinal Siri indeed becomes pope in 1958 under the name Gregory XVII and doesnt ever initiate Vatican II , it would be interesting to see how a catholic church without Vatican II would be in the modern day and who would succeed Gregory XVII
Two questions: 1) Why did you omit the Taiping Civil War? 2) How exactly are all these dynasties with their different ethnicities and languages all "China?"
1) It isn't relevant to what I was talking about. I had originally mentioned it in my first draft, but I didn't really need to. 2) The vast majority of dynasties in China were Han Chinese, with only a couple exceptions, most notably the Mongol Yuan Dynasty, and the Manchu Qing Dynasty. But, even then, they were all culturally, linguistically, and institutionally Chinese.
@@JoshSullivanHistory How was the Taiping Civil War not relevant? The Taiping controlled an area that produced 25 % of the empire's GDP and could well have toppled the Qing. And funny you mentioned the Qing because they were clearly not culturally and linguistically chinese, they spoke their own language and had their own cultural costums. Institutions might be one thing but that is simply due to the fact that it is easier to adopt and slowly change existing structures than create new ones. Furthermore, there were many conquest dynasties so I doubt your claim that the "vast majority of dynasties ibn China were Han Chinese", nor that they were all somehow chinese. Plus, how do you define culturally chinese? No offense but so far I never saw anyone who gave a definition that doesn't exclude several of these "Chinese" dynasties/empires or isn't so vague that it wasn't meaningless.
@@inotaishu1did majority of these non han Chinese dynasties not use han Chinese soldiers. Hell even the Xianbei khitan liao and so on all used versions of Chinese characters and wore Chinese clothes point is they were sinicized.
@@dragothunderstar6526 your point being? By that logic South Asia was once British. Also, how would that apply to the Shang empire? That one existed even before confucious was born, centuries earlier. So how were they chinese? Because modern characters are allegedly derived from theirs? And lets go millenia later. How was the Qing state China when its majority of landmass were not Han and they themselves had their own Manchu language and customs among them? Was the Ottoman empire Arab in your mind then because so many of its subjects were? Was the Roman empire not Roman by the same logic? Just asking how you actually define what you are stating there.
@@inotaishu1 again you just answered your own question and empire can be a continuous or successor state to its previous counterpart it’s basically the same idea as religion. You don’t have to be Jewish just to be Christian or Arab to be Muslim. Just like how not all Roman’s were the same ethnic group they still expanded the empire in the name of Rome and they still called themselves Roman’s. The ottomans weren’t Arabs but they adhered to Arab culture and viewed themselves as a Muslim empire. Does that mean their ancestors were Muslim. Surely you do know about succession right ? Hell this even happens among royal families. There’s a reason why concubines of a different race or ethnic group produce children who end up inheriting the empire. Go learn about succession you clown 🤡
China has never been a republic in the western sense. When KMT had the control of Taiwan after WW2, the people on the island had less liberty than under Imperial Japan. This didn’t change until 1990s’.
Sure, they could have revived the dynastic system. But would it be strong enough keep the growing Empire of Japan at bay? Let alone the increasing power of the British and French interests in southern China?
i like the video dude but a simple bgm would be nice, your video has many images and edits so i normally actively watch it and not just listen to it like a podcast... i dont realy like podcasts
I can't remember if I've asked you this, But what if titokowaru didn't commmet, uh.... Secret dance party with the wife of One of his "lutinents" Now in māori culture this is seen as very bad and everyone wss very mad they were not invited, and so aotroas (new Zealands) best general lost his support and the British were never again ever in trouble again... (Titokowaru was able to push the new Zealand colonial government to there breaking point and were bearly able to scrape together a army to attack the strongest stronghold yet untill titokowaru held that dance party, That just so happened to be in his bedroom.....
China should return the the dynastic system with a constitutional democracy, where the emperor/empress serves in a symbolic role as a symbol of the glory of Chinese culture and tradition and a protector, promoter and preserver of it. This proposed Chinese emperor would also be a philosopher king, or held to high standards of education and philosophy/spiritual/religion understanding. This emperor should also be a patron of the arts by duty and a promoter of sustainability by duty as well. This emperor would have a setup in the forbidden city palace and reign for life. Reestablish the imperial examination system for government positions and operate the society in a neo-confusion and modern mix of government and society structure and have all real positions of power be held by democratically elected officials who are well regarded, have a good reputation and background and for the pool of elective candidate's to be drawn from the best of this pool of talent and merit. Plus in the end they will have "mandate" and the heavens will not try and shun them for rejecting its divine authority.
I agree they could not industrialize super fast but considering the fight they were able to put up as warlord states that sent dudes into battle with swords that extra boost in gun production from stability may be enough to make it a bit more of an even fight. Chinese would still get a beat down but rather than 15 million dead it is closer to 5 million as they fight a somewhat more even grinding war
During the Xinhai Revolution, there were numerous proposals advocating for the replacement of the Manchu-led Qing dynasty by a new dynasty of Han ethnicity.
Kong Lingyi (孔令貽), a 76th-generation descendant of Confucius and the Duke of Yansheng, was identified as a potential candidate for Chinese emperorship by Liang Qichao.
Meanwhile, gentry in Anhui and Hebei supported a restoration of the Ming dynasty under Zhu Yuxun (朱煜勳), the Marquis of Extended Grace.
Both suggestions failed to materialize.
Interesting thought
Scenario idea: What if Castile unified with Portugal and left Aragon to their own devices?
Divergences
Left Aragon with their iPads
@@Ipolitelyaskyoutodiewhat???
@@lexi1031 he said "to their own devices"
And IPads are devices
69th like
bro, i was just investigating this guy, Yuan, to make a hoi4 mod, perfect timing
Try out the HOI4 mod Age of Imperialism. Its a mod that explores what if World War 1 never happened. You can play this dynasty as the Empire of China. You're also supprted by the German Empire and the Italian Empire.
The other two contenders of uniting China in this mod are the Qing (supported by the British, through Japan, and the Russians) and the Republic of China (supported by the Americans).
I hope you finish your mod it’d be interesting to see new Chinese empire, but if I can say anything please add multiple focus like going to war with French or not. Just for RP purposes😭
That seems like a great scenario, but also I would probably have the Hongxian Emperor survive longer, possibly if he didn't catch uremia, making him live as far as 1939-1941, even doing all that Yuntan Emperor would, just my modification of of the scenario.
yesterday I was looking for a scenario like this. THANK YOU!!
Ok great video, but the picture you used for Yuan Keding is a picture of Li Jing, a famous Chinese Xiangsheng (talk show) actor. No one will know but it is just very funny to see that because a random guy put it in a wiki post and now you are using it. Keep up!
If Teddy Roosevelt stayed in power, Kaiser Wilhelm II would've been able to form his German-American-Chinese Axis
The US is an Anglo country. They will always be closer to England than any other country.
Lmao no
More than likely is that Teddy Roosevelt would’ve had America enter WW1 as soon as the Germans sunk the Lusitania
Here’s one, what if Spain invaded (and conquered) the Ming dynasty in 1570s. They had a plan to, but they decided against it due to various reasons.
I agree ❤
That's a real good one
@EvilEgg331Perhaps if It happened during the iberian union the odds would be in favor, Spain and portugal, the 2nd and 3rd greatest world super powers against the 1st
@@henriquesalvatti544and if they weren't having a war in Europe against another major power (like France or the Ottomans)
I did not know that was real until I searched it up. The plan was known as _Empresa de China_ or "China enterprise". Maybe Spain could have occupied Formosa (present-day Taiwan) and the coastal areas, but it would have struggled against guerrilla resistance further inland.
Two scenarios of sorts:
1. What if the United Kingdom defeated the Tokugawa Shogunate and colonised Japan during the closing days of the Shogunate? And what if in response, the Russian Empire colonised Korea to counter Britain? And what if in response to that, the British annex the island of Formosa around the similar time as when the Japanese did in OTL?
2. What if British dominions/commonwealth countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa had monarchs installed (appointed from members of the House of Windsor) under a made up version of the Statute of Westminster 1931?
yes! that would be interesting
@@Rat_8868 Thank you, friend.
1 is basically Russia and Britain have a scramble for asia
@@mappingshaman5280 Yep.
@@mappingshaman5280Basically the Great Game extends to East Asia
I'm not sure if you accept video ideas, but if you do, can you talk about what if chetniks liberated Yugoslavia?
Lavader would be mad, thats all I know
@@lavalord8083 he would bomb this channel
I’m pretty sure that, if Cixi had allowed reforms earlier, China would have continued to be a monarchy much longer, or even to this day.
Cixi a wicked witch disguise as empress dowager 😂😂😂😂
Cixi siphoned off funds designated to revitalise China's navy and used it to build a new palace. She was absolutely standing in China's way.
Scenario idea: what if Maximiliano I of mexico wins the second mexican-french war 1862-1867?
China without a dynasty does not seem like real China at all 🙁
-100000000 social credit
@AzureWolf168China is still dynastic. It’s just putting on a different face
@@1mol831north korea is more dynastic then china lmao
Untrue, #LongLiveTheCCP
@@titojuani20 longlivetaiwan!!
What would this dynasty be called? All the previous dynasties had a one-word title like “Qing” or “Han,” so I’m just curious
Usually dynasty names were chosen a few generations after their foundation, so we will never know.
Xinhai would make a good dynasty name and would appeal to the anti qing/republican elements
Before the Mongol-led Yuan Dynasty, Chinese dynasties usually took the name of the region they first ruled over. Given that the Yuan were not native to China, they ended up abandoning this practice, and instead the dynasty would be named by its founder with the prefix "Great/Da".
Officially was going to be called the Chinese Empire 中华帝国as opposite to 中华民国 the republic of China.
@@gangwu4541 Yeah but that’s the name of the country. I’m wondering what this new imperial family would be called
Great video as always ❤
Kung Te-Chen’s a descendant of Confucius was also offered the throne by the Japanese during their occupation of China. He declined as he grew up in the Republic. If the Japanese did somehow manage to succeed in their eastern plan or carried it out earlier it’s entirely possible that his grandson would now be the emperor of China.
Enjoying your content. Glad I subscribed. If I may put in a request… I’ve often wondered what a Venetian Republic that survived into the 20th century would look like. Toyed with the idea myself, but I’d be interested in seeing your take on it. Keep making great content.
Scenario idea: What if the proposed Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth succeeded the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
What if after that you had the Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian-Russian-Finnish-North Korean-Mongolian-German-French-Swedish-Norse-Swiss-Italian Commonwealth succeeded that? In this exact order?
Scenario, what if the Ottomans never joined world war 1?
Also after Yuan Shikai's downfall.
A group of pro-Qing dynasty officers made a temporary comeback.
Then easily crushed by other Warlords. (Made a final return after the Dynasty become Imperial Japanese puppet state)
*VIDEO SUGGESTION:*
What if The Qing Dynasty never fell?
Could you do a scenario in which the Stuarts flee to the colonies during the English civil war and basically manage to create a (surviving) version of what happened with Brazil later on in otl with them. Would be interesting to see a Catholicized monarchist American empire with such early origins/independence.
What if the ottomens and egyptions won the greek independence
I propose a scenario that Cardinal Siri indeed becomes pope in 1958 under the name Gregory XVII and doesnt ever initiate Vatican II , it would be interesting to see how a catholic church without Vatican II would be in the modern day and who would succeed Gregory XVII
Interesting question for me, is what if instead of Hitler, Otto Strasser rase in power?
0:32 he was the reason why that dynasty fell
This was a coup
Two questions: 1) Why did you omit the Taiping Civil War? 2) How exactly are all these dynasties with their different ethnicities and languages all "China?"
1) It isn't relevant to what I was talking about. I had originally mentioned it in my first draft, but I didn't really need to.
2) The vast majority of dynasties in China were Han Chinese, with only a couple exceptions, most notably the Mongol Yuan Dynasty, and the Manchu Qing Dynasty. But, even then, they were all culturally, linguistically, and institutionally Chinese.
@@JoshSullivanHistory How was the Taiping Civil War not relevant? The Taiping controlled an area that produced 25 % of the empire's GDP and could well have toppled the Qing. And funny you mentioned the Qing because they were clearly not culturally and linguistically chinese, they spoke their own language and had their own cultural costums. Institutions might be one thing but that is simply due to the fact that it is easier to adopt and slowly change existing structures than create new ones. Furthermore, there were many conquest dynasties so I doubt your claim that the "vast majority of dynasties ibn China were Han Chinese", nor that they were all somehow chinese. Plus, how do you define culturally chinese? No offense but so far I never saw anyone who gave a definition that doesn't exclude several of these "Chinese" dynasties/empires or isn't so vague that it wasn't meaningless.
@@inotaishu1did majority of these non han Chinese dynasties not use han Chinese soldiers. Hell even the Xianbei khitan liao and so on all used versions of Chinese characters and wore Chinese clothes point is they were sinicized.
@@dragothunderstar6526 your point being? By that logic South Asia was once British. Also, how would that apply to the Shang empire? That one existed even before confucious was born, centuries earlier. So how were they chinese? Because modern characters are allegedly derived from theirs? And lets go millenia later. How was the Qing state China when its majority of landmass were not Han and they themselves had their own Manchu language and customs among them? Was the Ottoman empire Arab in your mind then because so many of its subjects were? Was the Roman empire not Roman by the same logic? Just asking how you actually define what you are stating there.
@@inotaishu1 again you just answered your own question and empire can be a continuous or successor state to its previous counterpart it’s basically the same idea as religion. You don’t have to be Jewish just to be Christian or Arab to be Muslim. Just like how not all Roman’s were the same ethnic group they still expanded the empire in the name of Rome and they still called themselves Roman’s. The ottomans weren’t Arabs but they adhered to Arab culture and viewed themselves as a Muslim empire. Does that mean their ancestors were Muslim. Surely you do know about succession right ? Hell this even happens among royal families. There’s a reason why concubines of a different race or ethnic group produce children who end up inheriting the empire. Go learn about succession you clown 🤡
yes finally someone made this story
Bro still thinks we forgot
Could you do a vid on "What if the Manchus have never conquered the Ming dynasty?"
Howdy josh! Love your content 😊😊😊❤❤❤
China has never been a republic in the western sense. When KMT had the control of Taiwan after WW2, the people on the island had less liberty than under Imperial Japan. This didn’t change until 1990s’.
What if Philip the second and Mary the first’s marriage succeeded
what would this china's relations be like with the USSR or no no germany? what would ww2 be like?
What if Russia colonized Japan
An alternate scenario idea: What if the Egyptians won the ango Egyptian war?
scenario idea: what if England and Spain united after the marriage of Philip II and Mary I?
You're wrong, the first thing that comes in mind for me when thinking of China is Tom and Jerry and Winnie the Pooh
What do Tom and Jerry have to do with China?
@@1987AnimeBoy Hes clearly baiting.
Sure, they could have revived the dynastic system. But would it be strong enough keep the growing Empire of Japan at bay? Let alone the increasing power of the British and French interests in southern China?
i like the video dude but a simple bgm would be nice, your video has many images and edits so i normally actively watch it and not just listen to it like a podcast... i dont realy like podcasts
I can't remember if I've asked you this,
But what if titokowaru didn't commmet, uh.... Secret dance party with the wife of One of his "lutinents"
Now in māori culture this is seen as very bad and everyone wss very mad they were not invited, and so aotroas (new Zealands) best general lost his support and the British were never again ever in trouble again... (Titokowaru was able to push the new Zealand colonial government to there breaking point and were bearly able to scrape together a army to attack the strongest stronghold yet untill titokowaru held that dance party,
That just so happened to be in his bedroom.....
Scenario idea: What If the Zulu won the Anglo Zulu War?
Here’s a scenario idea What if Anhui won the Zhili Anhui war
Combine this with Italy not unifying and Wittelsbach-ruled Germany, it's already a perfect world.
We almost had a second napoleon in this timeline
China should return the the dynastic system with a constitutional democracy, where the emperor/empress serves in a symbolic role as a symbol of the glory of Chinese culture and tradition and a protector, promoter and preserver of it. This proposed Chinese emperor would also be a philosopher king, or held to high standards of education and philosophy/spiritual/religion understanding. This emperor should also be a patron of the arts by duty and a
promoter of sustainability by duty as well. This emperor would have a setup in the forbidden city palace and reign for life. Reestablish the imperial examination system for government positions and operate the society in a neo-confusion and modern mix of government and society structure and have all real positions of power be held by democratically elected officials who are well regarded, have a good reputation and background and for the pool of elective candidate's to be drawn from the best of this pool of talent and merit. Plus in the end they will have "mandate" and the heavens will not try and shun them for rejecting its divine authority.
flag of the chinese empire is fine, you don't need to slap a drqagon on it
What If Tsarist Russia won Russo-Japanese War??
What if humans had longer life spans
what if spanish armada succeeded and the war ended early
I doubt the chinese would industrialize faster then the USSR, i maybe could see them industrializing a bit but in no way beat japan.
I agree they could not industrialize super fast but considering the fight they were able to put up as warlord states that sent dudes into battle with swords that extra boost in gun production from stability may be enough to make it a bit more of an even fight. Chinese would still get a beat down but rather than 15 million dead it is closer to 5 million as they fight a somewhat more even grinding war
What if Haile Selassie was never overthrown?
What if the Jacobites succeeded?
Hello
Once Africa and India are majority Muslim, China is finally safe from Uncle Sam.
Very goof
What if China join the axis and not Japan?
What if the Scottish Darien Scheme succeeded?
Lmao, isn't china currently under the mao dynasty, and the current emperor being Xi?
what if neither russia nor germany ever united?
I'm pretty sure Sun Yat Sen wanted Shikai to become the Republican leader to bring about legitimacy iirc.
Scenario idea: What if the Slavs never existed?
What if the sixtus affair succeeded
What if islam never existed
WHERE MY HONGXIAN EMPEROR STANS AT
Literally lasted a few months.
Make sense
Its now Xi Dynasty... What do you mean "almost"...
Hi
China: The Good Ending
China Without Dynasty is So Boring 😴😴😴
This is stupid.
Why tho?
This is junk history.
Look at Winnie the Pooh, is it true that Yuan Shikai has no successor? 🤣