Argentine Mausers 1891-1909
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Three Argentine Mauser's model 1891, and 1909, Lowe and DWM . The 1909 is unissued and with intact mum, new bore, the 1891's one is ground, the other intact, both gently use riles. Super examples of early Mauser craftsmanship.
About the ground-off crests on many Argentine surplus rifles; this was done as a result of the Chaco War in the 1930s between Bolivia and Paraguay. The Argentines were supplying their Paraguayan neighbors with surplus weapons until the Bolivians captured some with the Argentine crests intact. Of course this caused a bit of a diplomatic tiff as Argentina was officially neutral. As a result, the Argentines thereafter made sure the crests were removed from their ex-military equipment prior to export.
The 1891 and 1909 Mausers originally had receiver and bolt in the white - not blue. If they were refurbished, the receivers were typically blued. The 1891 barrel was for a long round nose bullet and when converted to spitzer, they received replacement barrels from SIG, were blueing and had tangent sights like the1909 calibrated for the new bullet. The 1909 was a commercial version of the 1898 Gewehr with the barrel shank changed to match the 1891 (so they could use the same barrels), the bayonet lug to use the 1891 bayonet, tangent sight instead of roller coaster style and caliber 7.65x53. Argentina came up short of funds for the 1891 contract so they arranged for Peru to buy up the remainder. Those already delivered were sent back to have the Argentine crest replaced with Peru and new rifles were shipped with Peru crest.
Argentine had a law that the rifles could not be sold with the crest so those were ground off before export, some smoothly buffed, others rougher. However, grinding them off made the rifles less desirable by collectors. So after complaints from the exporter (and likely price negotiation), the Argentine government eliminated the law and later exports have crests.
Thank you for the information, my 1909, and the couple of 1891's I have with the intact crest are in the white, the one without the crest ( 1891) is buffed so nicely you would think it never had a crest, that one has a blued receiver. That must have been an interesting conversation with the Mauser company. Thank you for the lovely rifles, oh by the way, we are having a little cash flow problem..... The rifles DWM was producing at that time reach the level of work of art. When I look at my 1909 I just marvel at the idea that these were intended for infantry soldiers to carry in the field.
I love the way you talk it sounds like a old time salesman
Great Vid, thank you! Now I know what was ground off the top of my 1891! Mine came from Grandpa and is is shockingly good condition for it's age. By your info here, looks to be an "early" 1891, original and only missing the big crest and a bayonet. All numbers match, even a little brass barrel cap thingy! Cool.
The 'Gewehr' is a K98b conversion, as mentioned. It is a 'large ring' receiver. The smaller calibers: 7x57 and 6.5x55 are 'small ring' .
Not entirely accurate. There are small ring mausers chambered in 8x57 and there are large rings chambered in 7x57 and 6.5x55
The GEW98 and K98k are built to the specifications of the German Army, other model Mausers are built however the customer ordering them wanted them. The Germans wanted short handguards, others wanted them long.
That conversion was done by the Argentine government back in the 60's. They used .30-06 in the SAFN-49 that replaced the Mauser's. The Mauser 98 action has been used for everything from .22lr all the way up to magnum calibers, .30-06 should not be a challenge for it, it's on par with the 8mm Mauser the Germans used in millions of other 1898 actions. Check the rifles headspace with a .30-06 NO/GO headspace gauge available from Midway or Brownells, it's not hard to do.
Very nice examples. Good to hear the whole story. I had almost forgotten that the 1909 had the flush fit mag in the stock. Some of the best surplus rifles ever.
The 1909 is the German GEW1898 with some minor changes to the chambering, rear sight, sling rings, and bayonet mount. The level of fit and finish is higher than found on some GEW98's made for the German military. My original matching Spandau 1906 GEW98 is nicely made, but not quite up to the level of the 1909 Argentine.
Stunning rifles. The 1909 is a work of art.
My father owned a 7.57 Argentina Mauser short rifle w curled bolt and 5 round magazine , German manufacture w an eagle standing on a swastika . Good shooter .
My 1891, made in 1895 I believe as it is in the M series is the best I've seen condition wise and almost unused looking. Why? I believe it may have been on a ship. I heard those issues rarely got used. All matching numbers including rod and a number of tiny anchor stamps on it including behind sight at the top. Unfortunately no crest and a couple of stock dings but it looks like a three year old rifle. I guess I got lucky on an auction sight.
The 1909 has two bayonet lugs, the original German style at the end of the stock forend like any K98k or GEW98 the Germans used in the World wars, and pinned on top of that is a bayonet adapter the Argentines required so they could continue using their older style bayonets. For both lugs to be gone would indicate the rifle has been sporterized by having some portion of it's stock forend removed. Light colored stocks are common enough on German GEW's, could be it was replaced.
I have an 1891 T serial number mauser with the crest intact. Pretty happy! just gotta clean the internals and such.
Nice find, now to secure an ammo supply, or set up to reload your own for it.
Nice video. The background music was a nice touch.
I went to pick up a '42 k98 recently and ended up getting a neat little sporterized 1891 Argentine in a package deal. I was really looking forward to getting the k98, but I can't keep my hands off of the 1891.
I just got one of the Argentine re-built .30-06 "Sporter" 1909s for $220. It's my 1st Mauser and I was wondering if it could be restocked. I mean, it's in excellent condition but that elevated site base kinda makes it funky looking.
These are great rifles. I have both the long and the cavalry version of the 1891.
DWM, the maker of the 1909 Argentine contract Mauser's did own FN of Belgium, but FN rifles are marked as such, these are German made . FN had other south American contracts to fill as well as producing rifles for the Belgian government.
The Argentine Mauser's are some of the Mauser works greatest efforts, however keep in mind that they use the 7.65×53mm R cartridge and not the more common 8mm Mauser of the Turk K Kales. Reloading would be the way to go with them, and with the 1891 it's best to load them on the light side, the 1909 can handle any ammo you can find for it being the later 1898 action. I have seen some 1891's on gunbroker lately selling in the $300 range.
Just bought a Early Loewe made 1891 Engineers Carbine for 375$ at a gun show all numbers matching and it is gorgeous! Did I overpay? probably but I don't care.This little mule will probably whip my..well you know because it is so short and light.Have fun and God Bless.
That would have been a good price for the long rifle with a good bore and matching numbers. Carbines were produced in lesser numbers and are always popular with collectors, depending on condition I would expect a carbine to being around five or more, nice find.
Some of the 98/09 rifles were made in Argentina and are so marked on the bill board.
Nice Mausers, I have a 1891 DWM that was sporterized way back when. The barrel is cut down to 22", the original stock been expertly checkered (multi stage) with a diamond shaped piece of darker wood pressed through the buttstock.The stock has no top wood and is duckbilled 1/2" shorter than the barrel. It is fitted with an old Weaver 2.5-7 variable power scope on a Weaver side mount, very nice job indeed!
I have 3 '98 Mausers, a 1908 Brazilian, a 7x57 Santa Barbara and a heavy barreled Parker Hale (also Santa Barbara action), all super tight though I must admit my 03/A3 Springfield that was purchased unissued in the '50s for around $ 15 is my favorite "big" bolt gun and my 1954 Sako actioned Marlin .222 my favorite "baby" bolt gun. .
And yes I agree .308 Winchester rounds could make quick work out of a 1891 Mauser much like the Spanish 1916 short rifles converted (very poorly I might ad) to 7.62 C.E.T.M.E. which were sold for around $50 each and marketed as .308s, yeah, they will chamber and fire that round it is a very poor idea!
i have 1891 that sounds very close to yours - any idea of what they are wirth?
I know your comment is four years old, but this is the kind of misinformation that needs to be quelled, stop it. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything at all.
No specific place that would have them, Numrich arms would be one place to check, they have millions of gun parts. Gunbroker, search it regularly as stuff is listed daily, and Ebay will also allow sales of gun stocks. The 1909 uses a 1898 Mauser large ring action, '98 Mauser carbines are extremely popular and can be expensive, they are not often broken up for parts and as they are lower production spare parts are not easily available. Just keep looking and one day you might get lucky.
They are nice rifles, great shooters if your eyes are up to the Mauser sights, been a few years since mine have been. I have a fourth one that never made it into the video, another 1891, it's mostly matching except for the bolt, it's off a carbine, the crest is unground on that one as well. Parts are available for these rifles from Numrich Arms, or on gunbroker, Good luck getting your M1891 back into service :)
Nice collection, I do have the 1879 rolling block, it's in an earlier video, I managed to find one that had not been refurbished, I do not have the carbine , not yet anyway . It's good to hear than some of the rifles remained in Argentina instead of having been sold out of the country.
Mostly the caliber, your Brazilian is a 7mm, the Argentine Mauser's are 7.65mm. Both rifles are DWM built rifles, both to the same quality, both are basic copy's of the Imperial German GEW98 ( 7.92mm) The Argentines had a habit of refurbishing their surplus rifles prior to sale so they could jack up the prices, but some slipped through in original condition. Few countries outside the USSR did that sort of thing with surplus weapons, they just sold them as scrap.
Thank God you had a lamp so we could actually see what you're talking about !
Absolutely beautiful Argies!! I have an '09 and a '91 and both are wonderful shooters, just that their crests are ground. And, in the case of the '09, it has been rechambered for 7.53-06 meaning a 30'06 case fire formed to 7.65. It's an interesting rifle to reload for and fire. I've read these were rechambered by sears or woolworth back in the '60's to be more attractive to the American market. I understand that there was a large number of '09s imported into the US back then. Firing a 30 caliber bullet down a 7.65 bore is not very accurate. I use .311 bullets.
orgullo argentino...
El rifle es aleman
Fue fabricado por la DWM de Berlín, Alemania, en Argentina por la Dirección General de Fabricaciones Militares, en la Fábrica Militar de Armas Portátiles "Domingo Matheu", en la Provincia de Santa Fe
gustavo dib
Los alemanes lo inventaron. El rifle no tiene nada de argentino.
ok man,un saludo
Nice rifles. These Argentines sure lokk good. By the way, Ludwig Loewe became DWM in 1896.
Mauser's are very commonly sporterized, this is the sort of thing I would need to see pics of video to be able to tell for sure what's wrong. However, if the rifle you are looking at does not look exactly like the 1909 I show in this video then it's been altered. Do you mean that your rifle is lacking the adapter for the bayonet that I point out in this video on my rifle? It has the Argentine crest just like my rifle? Is the front band in place?
Great video,
Thanks for the info.I hope to get my 1891 back into servicable condition.I know i can after all your help.
Tennessee_Mosin
You know I never tried it, I have a few clips someplace that I recall playing with in the 1909 20 years back, don't know what I did with them. They should fit, both rifles are 7.65 Argentine, they should work with any 7.65 Mauser like the Belgian or original Turk models.
I just was offered a matching, excellent condition 1909 Agentinian Mauser. It does not seem to have any bayonet lug attachment and this worried me. Also stock may have been replaced (it's very blond, and no marks) though I'm unsure it fits so well. Any explanation of the lack of bayonet lug?
Very helpful video. Thanks.
great video thank you sir
Thanks for sharing. Any chance of clarification on how to get the stock bands past the bayonette lug on the 1909. Bands are free on mine, but, the lug/housing is stuck. Can a soft mallet dislodge that from the stock? Or is some pin holding it? If you know, thanks for your help.
Sorry, never was notified about this question. It's been years since I took the 1909 apart, I try to avoid doing that to preserve it's condition. That bayonet adapter is an addition to what is otherwise a German standard GEW 1898 rifle but in 7.65 rather than 7.92. The adapter has to come off if you want to remove the bands, the rifles German designers never anticipated that someone would add that part in the way of the band. Brass drift punch, brass hammer, tap out the pin, tap off the extra lug, and slide off the band.
therre is like infinite number of model 98 variations produce, but why is that only the gew98 and k98 have the short hand guard? all the others i have seen, the wood goes past the rear sight base.
the brass one is not from the navy is from the granadier guard (presidencial guard)
you said that the 1891 may not handle full power loads, but how about ones that have been rechambered to .308?
If you have one of the converted to 7.62x51mm Mauser's then lend it to someone you don't like much at the range. The Germans made world class rifles from very good steel, but the technology we have today far outclasses any steel they had 120 years ago. In the 1890's smokeless powder technology was still new, and experimental, the Germans had only stolen it from the French in 1886. They were still refining the Mauser rifle design, the 1891 is a small ring action with two locking lugs, it is strong, but not to the level of the 1898 action. A mild 7.65 round I have no problems shooting in any of my 1891's, but a modern 7.62, especially, a hotter commercial .308 round, I would consider a risk I need not take. The rifle may never give any problems, but who knows who did the work, how many times it's been subjected to high pressure rounds, how long that steel will hold before it bursts. This would also be a rifle to pay very close attention to headspace, 7,62x51mm headspace gauges are easier to find than 7.65, Midway has them, so does Brownells, if it fails to pass the NO/GO gauge then make it a wallhanger on the spot. I have not run into any Argentine Mauser's with a .308 conversion, that is something I have seen only in Spanish, and Chilean Mauser's so far.
RockIsland1913 I'm planning to run loads no more than 45,000 CUP/50,000psi in it. As a matter of fact, I don't plan to use anything other than nato brass if I can help it and probably just use starting load data from Hodgdon. However, I think I'm going to do the string pull method for the first few shots.
ok thank you sir and great video
Thank you, you sound like Jay Leno.
Question, do you know where i can find a stock for a 1909 carbine?
I have a Brazilian 1908. What is the difference from your 1909?
Nice Vid, Im From Argentina and I have de two tipes of 1891 (Infantry and Cavallery Carabine) Now I buy a 1909 Cavallery carabine. Do you have the Remington Rolling Block Modelo Argentino 1879 EN and the "Tercerola" RRB carabine.?
Loewe merged into DWM at end of 1896.
Question, do the 1909 stripper clips fit in the 1891 mauser?
Yes, we pretty much consider them an upgraded clip.
Sorry, typo -look.
Is the 1909 stock force matched?
No, this is one of the imports the Argentine arsenals didn't upgrade before sale. 1950's or 60's import, the crest didn't get scrubbed off of this one either.
Norma makes the best 7.65 ammo.
I am still shooting Argentine military surplus in them, I bought thousands of rounds many years ago and have maybe 800 left.
You can buy the 7.65x53 ammo from Cabelas online. Made in Serbia by PPU. About $19 a box of 20. So, easy to find, but we here in CA can no longer buy via the internet! Communist state that I live in.
any one know how much the 1891's are going for now days?
$450-$500 for a nice one with a crest. You will see some go for a bit less and of course the insane crap on gunbroker were someone decides to pay $800
I got one for $150 and getting another for $200
+m c: Why do you ask ?
@@aldixon1977 like to sell mine
Argentina nicely removed the crest themselves en masse after setting up for it. Arisaka 'mums were mostly ground off haphazardly by US troops' leaders on an individual basis, under US orders, as an official courtesy to the Emperor.
The mum was also removed, or defaced in the field by individual Japanese soldiers who had a high expectation of imminent death. They knew the enemy would soon have the rifle, and did not want to disgrace the emperor. The most common method of defacing the mum was to place the edge of the bayonet across it and hit it down with a rock, or hammer if available. School rifles also had the mum defaced with the concentric circle stamp or others so long as the mum was not left intact when the rifle left the emperors service.
Urm, made in Belgium...
Ludwig Loewe & Company produced the Argentine M1891 contract rifles in Germany, later DWM, Deutsche Waffen und Munitions Fabriken produced the 1909. The Belgian 1889 does look like an Argentine, they are the same basic design, but the Argentine contract rifles were made in Germany and are so marked the Belgian model 1889 rifles were made in Belgium by Fabrique Nationale Belgium chose to use the German designed rifle rather that come up with their own, but they did keep production in house.
Not trying to be a pronunciation Nazi, just letting you know that "Loewe" is pronounced "Loeve"
I mangle many pronunciations, the only German words I know are filthy ones taught to me by WW2 era American GI's. I do know a real German, he tells me he speaks something called high German, I will put the question to him the next time I have the rifle out, or I will just show him the word.
Belgian***
Is converting a 1906 Argentine to 30-06 something that is really do-able? I have one that has poor headspace. It does not close on an original round. Not sure it is safe to shoot with the Argentine round. Nice rifle tho and I'd like to shoot it.
If you want a Mauser that will last you a life time buy a Ruger 77 they are made of better metal.
Even used they are better than any mauser.
Mausers are over priced.
Any war gun that's over priced Ha Ha let them keep it for their gun museum,.... hell any modern bolt gun wont blow hot gas in you face when you shoot it.
Yeah they suckerd me into military junker's,...........military junker's are like a pyramid scheme.
You buy their shit and they buy new shit.
I had a Argentine Mauser, Spanish Mauser,.. FN Swedish Mauser, and a Russian Mauser.
I had a M1 30 carbine it shot like shit And bought a brand new universal arms 30 carbine it shot like shit too,..Why,....... just because 30 carbine is a pussy round that's in accurate,.....But M1's were beautiful but of no use to me I like my bullseyes.
The FN shot great groups just not where you aimed at 100 yds a little high.
Ha Ha the Russian Mauser was basically an 1891copy,..... but it was a short Mosin Nagant it shot 7.62X54 I liked that one.
I know a guy that has a Mauser 98 German Gewehr with half the crest it was a submarine capture his grand father had so he drilled holes broke off screws and busted off a chunk of the receiver.
I know he did it because I saw how he rode my bike, he didn't know shit about shit.
Find a Ruger Mannlicher,....and that's the best Mauser money can buy Sako, Remington and winchester made them too,... or buy a yugo M48 brand new from the factory.
You can also get a Zastava at Century arm's any configuration that you want.
I have all the commercial sporters I will ever need, plus a few extra. The antiques are about the history, I could care less how they shoot.