DISCLAIMER This video was produced by a random student on the internet who loves reading, especially about ancient history and classics. The purpose of my videos is to make classics and ancient history interesting and accessible to everyone. It is important to highlight that I am not a professional or qualified educator, “expert”, historian or classicist. However, I ensure that all the information I use in my video scripts has been collated from numerous credible sources, which I will link in the description box if accessible online. I always work my hardest to deliver thoroughly researched and reliable information in my videos, but please always conduct additional, independent research to formulate a thorough understanding of any topic discussed. Additionally, I am dyslexic, and I will mispronounce words throughout this video, sometimes without realising it. This is not ill-intended or stemming from willful ignorance, and I do make the effort to research how to pronounce words before I start filming, but I often misread my phonetic spelling. In light of this, please do not rely on my video for an authoritative or reliable source of how to pronounce certain words.
thanks for the disclaimer. you can be an expert on a subject without a degree. i'm a legal expert but no lawyer. my expertise comes mainly from my practice of ethicism." which doesn't seem to be practiced in law much anymore. may i suggest you do a history on ethicism. every culture and religion has a similar ethical canon. i call it an ethical thread that runs through history that rulers often found justifications not to apply to themselves. don't lie, steal, murder, etc are social rules that link every human society in history. i've determined the difference between ethics and morality is that morality changes depending on when and where you live where ethics remain constant. where do ethics come from? are they instinctual, as i claim. something every human is gentically inclined to know. or do they have a social origin. were they meant to control and manipulate humanity or to provide a cohesive, uniting influence on society? damn, that's a long comment. sorry about that.
Thankyou for this. You've done an excellent job of presenting this. As I'm from Yorkshire, I'm rather interested in the Norse myself. It's strange to me that shieldmaidens are still apparently contentious, despite material evidence that women with full kit have been confirmed as members of the 'Great Heathen Army'. I suppose there are ideas that our culture has a problem with letting go of. Bad ideas, but that's hardly new.
Ok, so the Scythians were nomadic, loved their mounts, heavily tattooed, and loved booze and drugs? Ancient era bikers. Scythians were ancient era bikers.
As a lady who practices archery often, with a D cup breasts, I can confirm that you don't need to cut your boobas to draw a bow. And my friend with F cups (aka huge badonkadonks) confirms it too. If anything you wear some compresive colthes to keep them in place and outta way. having in mind how mysoginists greeks were, ...yeah, they wouldn't know that breasts are not meat obstacles that you need to get rid of. It's like saying that men have to cut their balls to ride a horse.XD
It’s honestly impossible to not look at the Amazons and see the myth is misogynistic in nature once you learn anything about Ancient Greek culture. It’s always a fearsome race of women warriors who get defeated by big, strong, muscular men, like inhuman monsters crushed by heroes.
I could see the "only one lady lump" thing also stemming from seeing them having one bound down to keep it out of the way and the Greek observers interpreting that as "oh, they must only have the one!". After all, it wouldn't be the first time such an assumption was made about a foreign culture.
In french, we only use the word "amazone" to name the horse-riding style of having both legs on the same side of the horse. Truly "funny" how the whole warrior and independent aspects of the myth were lost in the everyday references.
한국어로 amazon은 "azonma" 즉 여성 그 자체다 이 단어는 현대에 이르러 비하적인 의미로 사용되기도 하는데 그 이유는 한국이 300년 전부터 여성억압국이 됐기때문이다 하지만 한국의 근본은 모계사회다 그리고 고대한국 왕조의 일부가 일본왕조를 건국했는데 이 왕조는 제사를 지낼때 "azime"라고 외친다 일본인들은 뜻을 잘 모르는데 한국어랑 같은 뜻이다 여성의 존칭어이다 일본은 기원후 최초로 여왕이 있던 나라다 심지어 일본을 정벌했던 고대한국인은 여자다
I remember telling my world history teacher that the Amazons were based on ancient Scythian women. He didn't believe me. Then a fantastic PBS documentary about an "Amazon" burial and DNA testing it, showing that the buried woman had descendants in modern day Mongolia, especially young women who have naturally blonde hair. I felt so damn vindicated.
Those women were Kazak, Turks, NOT Scythians, who were 1 of many Eurasian steppe peoples---Iranians like Scythians, Sarmatians,and still existing Tajiks, also many Turkic, peoples, including Kazaks,, and also Mongols, etc. even the early Bulgarians.
@@tymanung6382 thank you for such opinion ive been reading about my people recently (im chuvash, i.e. the descendant of early bulgarians/huns/sogdianians if i were to believe my books) now im very not sure of the timeline but people of sogdiana might have contributed to that myth and i think they were just turks im sorry if im very wrong i dont know how to learn about history and im doing my best
@@tymanung6382 I think the fact that ancient warrior women seem like such a foreign concept to us really shows, how much our view of antiquity is clouded by our focus by myths of the ancient greeks and biblical hebrew, who were rather misogynist even compared to their contemporaries. I think if more than anything, the myths of the amazons show us how misogynist the ancient greeks actually were, as they very likely could not imagine a culture in which men would fight side by side with women, so they had to make up basically a straw-feminazi culture.
Don’t ever stop calling out the truth. It’s a hard road but when you reach my age you will be rich with wisdom and no one can ever take that from you. Take care.
Given the state of "medicine" at that times, the amputation of any bodypart would have been a great method to make sure you never get enough warriors to make up a decent army........
The amputation of those body parts may have been historically accurate but not to soot with the bow but because of war injuries. For a Greek an image of few warrior woman with one part may have been very unusual and great to be exaggerated for an interesting story.
I used to be a combat archer in a larp (Amtgard and Shadow Accord), and I'm a busty lady. Never once caught my lady lumps in a bow string. Always thought that myth was kinda stupid.
Of the hundreds of female archers I've known, I don't think there has been one who's lady-lump (my new favourite word, thanx) was truely endangered by her bowstring. Both male and female (modern) archers wear a chestprotector to keep their clothing out of the bowstring's way. And as a good spot to carry their club's badge!
I would imagine that the scarring caused by the primitive surgical skills of the time would be more of a hindrance to archery than a lady lump of any size. 😄
I think most ancient civilizations (especially in harsh regions such as scandinavia for example) were fairly ”egalitarian” where most people (man and Woman) were simply expected to pull their own weight in society. We even had something called ”ättestupa” (familyline fall/death) where elderly could Jump to their death when they because a burden to their family.
Old stories from WW II veterans dealing with WW I veterans and people who got off the boat in USA. Back in the old country, meaning Italy/ Sicily or Germany once an old person became too unstable and can't fend for themselves, you fix the elder a going away feast and got them drunk follow with a headlock sleeper and neck break. Scotland or Ireland the elders just got drunk and went for a walk in the snow at night and froze to death. Traditions like this was still going on in the early part of the 1900's.
Watch out this asumption, just because some cultures had at some point warrior women, high priestess, female bards and so on doesn't mean they where egalitarian. At best there could being seeing as an oddity (most of the time there where part of nobility which had more power and opportunities, or the where the only member left of their families) while others still looked down on them for not being in "traditional" gender roles. Not only that but even if there where women on high positions there where still under strict rules only made for them, like how vestals had to keep chastity, or if they get married there had to leave their weapons and stop going to war, or if they cheated on their husbands they could be punished by death.
I think far from most ancient civilizations were egalitarian. Most of the more well-known ancient civilizations were still patriarchal and those more well-known civilizations also had the highest populations. It seems like nomadic tribes are the ones that are most egalitarian, and as you said, places with harsher living conditions
@@nidohime6233 Many like to proclaim that a lot of indigenous American societies were egalitarian or matriarchal, but it was more so that women were given certain social responsibilities while men were expected to handle others, and when one took on responsibilities outside of their "nature" they were seen as being two spirited, or of having the spirit of the other sex. Some women also were expected to take on responsibilities of both sexes due to men in their families dying or being taken captive and they tended to be held in the highest honours. Typically women were expected to deal with internal bureaucracy while men took on positions of power regarding external affairs such as commerce, diplomacy, and warfare. Many indigenous cultures would have roles that both sexes were expected to participate in, as well, such as agriculture and animal husbandry.
@@enbeast8350 perhaps when they had established themselves enough to afford not to be egalitarian. Initially, I dont think any civilisation could afford to not treat everyone like simply a resource for survival.
I love how (like it happens modern day) some stories travel fast and change depending who is telling it. The version that the Amazons were the women of a tribe that started to fought when the men were killed in war really stroke a core and travelled. The same thing with the legend of the Golden Fleece, many tribes near the Black Sea used sheep and goat skins to filtrate the gold out of the river streams. The world of the late bronze age was really interconnected allowing stories like theese to travel and develope.
The fact that the warrior women weren't called "Monomazon" or "Henomazon" seems like even further evidence against the Greek folk etymology, but I may be being too strict in my interpretation of the A- prefix. After all, at least one presumable native speaker of classical Greek apparently thought such usage was plausible enough.
I realize I'm late to this video but I'd like to add for anyone interested that the early domesticated horses were small and not super able to be ridden. So especially a man in armour would be very difficult for a horse to carry so it is very possible these nomadic horse cultures promoted women in war because they were lighter and the horses could handle them better. It is very possible the first cavalry ever were women. This is why chariots were waaaayyy more common in the bronze age than any other time. The horses couldn't handle people as easily at the time.
I’ve known about the Sythian culture for a little while, but had no idea that they interacted with other civilizations like the Ancient Greeks, or that they might have been the inspiration for the Amazons!!! Super cool, tysm for sharing!! Gives me a lot more context for the world they lived in. ☺️
The Scythian's also used a certain green plant as a painkiller, seeds have been found in some of the tombs, including my favorite the "Princess of Uzok" Looking at getting a tattoo inspired by hers at some point :)
In the Indian subcontinent(South Asia), some groups from the state of Haryana(India) have the highest steppe DNA (sintashta_mlba & yamnaya). Sintashta is often 30-45% for the greater northern region _(NW Pakistan, Pak Punjab, above Delhi region of India)_ as per group identities. But Harayana is more special because groups like Rors & Jaats here are who cause those DNA figures to go as high as 45%. Brit researchers during British Raj hypothesized these groups to be of Indo Scythian stock. After all these years, one weird thing found in genetic studies is that Harayana jaats have significant frequency of haplogroup Q1, which isn't found in rest of South Asia. Q1 is also indo european, like R1a & R1b, and Q1 is super common in scythian burial analysis, along with R1a. Besides the eastern euro like lighter phenotype occurance in haryana people, other stereotypes about them are that _"their women are super tough & tomboyish."_ Haryanavi tongue is a crass, aggressive sounding dialect of Hindi language. There's a whole topic of how the "jats" name is derived from scythians like _Massagetae._ I don't know how accurate all that is. Ancient texts have recorded the jats to be later entrants to the subcontinent(i.e after sintashta indo aryan migrations, after vedic age). The culture of harayana is also quite closed off & mysterious(you would hardly find their pics on google). Ironically, these people who are highest in steppe DNA have been historically labelled as "lower castes" because they refused to integrate themselves in the Ganga Middle India Hinduism. This is quite true for the whole North-West subcontinent.... Middle India(ganga belt) had become the central power in later vedic age & times after that. Anybody who refused to follow the exploitative caste based fourfold system was labelled as outcastes. North-West subcontinent people, who were responsible for literally bringing in the IE languages & vedic culture, got later stereotyped as barbarians.
Could these Jats have something to do with Jazygs/the Jász people? The ones i'm talking about originate from Iran. In Hungary we have a county named after them and the mongol Cumans.
Truly educational, though further speculation could of divined that many of them would likely have been mounted archers as that was the preferred fighting style of that region and requires less physical strength (although still a great deal with those horn and sinew bows) than a speared shield wall favored by the Greeks and Romans. Swords were almost always used as backup weapons in all cases.
I found the story about Heracles and the Scythian ancestry very intriguing because, there is a myth from the Mahabharat, the second great Indian epic, that follows an almost identical story. Arjun, arguably the central mortal hero of the epic and the greatest warrior out of his 5 royal brothers, is chosen to accompany a ceremonial horse as it wanders through the Indian subcontinent. This was the Ashwamedha Yagna, a ceremony which entailed a blessed horse to travel wherever it wished and whatever land it entered became a part of the Empire that had sent it. If a ruler did not want to become apart of the expanding empire, they'd have to fight the horse's keeper (in this case Arjun) to maintain their sovereignty. So Arjun was accompanying this horse and it was stopped by a Naga princess; the Nagas were said to be a divine/semi-divine race of half-human and half-serpent (the word Naga is a derivation of the Sanskrit word for cobra ). And these people were likely some of the nomadic tribes living in the forest, who were very physically strong and 'wild' hence the divine and animal associations lent to them. This princess, Ulupi, refused to give the horse back and as she was a divine creature, and a woman, fighting her would be improper. He was compelled to plead for her wishes and she demanded to bear his children. Arjun agreed, did the deed, got the horse and went on his way. Afterwards she gave birth to his child. It's interesting how legends from great, contemporary civilisations mirror each other.
Okay, few things to add. Argonautica describes Amazonians only mating with Colchian men. This is important because oldest grave sights of female warriors have been found in modern day Georgia. In general Scythians and Kartvelians had a long running interaction, Smiths of the Caucasus were praised for their craft so often they were kidnapped by Scythian warbands. Some warbands were entirely comprised of women so this is a possible origin of the myth. Crimea is thought to be their homeland. Also Azerbaijan came to be after the Turkish migration into anatolia, a thousand year after the Scythians were no more, well surviving parts became Alans, but still. Before them there was kingdom of (caucasian) Albania.
@@MrCmon113 I'd be down. Actually our mythic Smith god Pircush was kidnapped by Giants and made to craft magic items for them. So there is a mythic memory of this act.
I am Ingush. We call our self Galgai. Aka: Colchis Gargareans Kisti Qalqans Halka Gligvi Dzurdzuks Gelians Lamoor Loamaro Ingushians With no doubt we are direct descendants of the ancient Amazones and the Gargareans mentioned by Strabo.
I never knew I would enjoy hearing the term "lady lumps" so much until I stumbled on this video. You make it sound so melodic and elegant. Love the accent and the voice. And the content is interesting too 😊
As someone who has studied a bit of Viking history there's a bit of a problem with the Romans being the ones to preserve many accounts of warrior women and... There was clearly some kind of fetish there. Just from what was described and how. We know the Germanic tribes did have fighting women and that they dressed exactly the same in combat as the men, to the point of being indistinguishable, though they were less common. There's multiple non Roman sources, including archeological ones, and we know the Roman account was absolutely inaccurate and borderline masterbatory. The Amazon's have few original sources outside the Greek and Roman so it's difficult to tell if they were based on a real tribe or for the titilation of Greek men. It might be possible to compare the actual Germanic/Old Norse warrior women with what the Romans wrote of them though, and then interpolate what they added to all these tales and what was unique to the Amazon one. I have a document about the (frankly extensive) evidence for warrior women in Old Norse society with some extensive sources and citations, including the Roman account of them. I'll post it as a reply to this (after I dig it out) and hope Cinzia hasn't blacklisted out link based comments (though generally speaking it's a good idea) or that she manually review and unflags it if she has. It's a good read, promise 👍🏼
If the link didn't pop up you can try searching for "Yes all warriors The importance of fierce warriors, and relative unimportance of gender, in Old Norse culture. (AKA: Vikings didn’t care about your genitals if you were ready and able to disembowel someone.)" It's been floating around online for a while.
@@TheGrinningViking Read the document. Sounds like they weren't very good warriors, since they died as teenagers according to archaeology. Imagine a teenage girl boxing a seasoned vet. Not good. Though I do believe many, if not most, pagans did allow young women to fight if the young women were willing. This is why the Abrahamic patriarchal religions conquered the world. No societies protected mothers and children (the culture's future) as well as the nations that adopted these religions. The pagan peoples never stood a chance in the long run. Death by attrition if nothing else.
@@TheGrinningViking perhaps give the author names, journal and date. Or the DOI. Makes it much easier to search for. I can't find anything using that search text.
The only real description of a Viking Warrior women (other than mythology) was by Saxo Germanicus who wrote of Amazonian type of society among the Vikings. However, his account almost 300 years after the "Viking period" and there was no evidence that such a society was purposely set up. Having said that, Women did migrate with the men when the Viking Army invaded England, The Volga region, to help set up new colonies and their remains were found among the men in the battlefields. But there is no evidence that they were Warriors as a whole except perhaps among the nobility of time.
Well done! I have one quibble: the Greeks view of the Amazons is quite a bit more complex that she says. While it's easy to think the ancient Greeks viewed the Amazons (as they saw them) as "monstrous" and needing to be conquered and killed, a closer reading reveals rather different attitudes. Of course, Greeks opinion was not monolithic (as no society is) and one should beware of generalizing, but I will note one example (to keep this short): Greek girls have been found buried with dolls of armed and armored Amazon warrior queens. That (in combination with the Greek myths and artwork) says something very interesting. BTW: The best source on the Amazons is Adrienne Mayor's book "The Amazons." Last note on Penthesilea. The late Martin West concluded that the Aethiopis was composed from two earlier poems, a "Song of Memnon" and a "Song of Penthesilea." Memnon is very much a late-comer to the cycle, and Homer could not have had any conception of him (he was added in by the New Poets generations after Homer), but the Penthesilea legend is of great antiquity and Homer almost certainly knew of it, just as he used an ancient "Song of Achilles" as of his sources for the Iliad. So the legend of Penthesilea and Achilles is much more important to the Iliad than often thought. That argument will not fit in a comment, of course.
I've heard references about the Sarmathians a number of times but it's really hard to find historical sources that seem somewhat unified on the topic. Could you do a video about them at some point?
you might be interested in reading about two Native American/ "American Indian" women, if you haven't already heard about them, war chief "Pretty Nose" and "Buffalo Calf Road Woman" here are the wikipedia pages for both women. I think you might find it interesting! Pretty Nose - Wikipedia Buffalo Calf Road Woman - Wikipedia
@@ejokurirulezz They're called native Americans. Hinduism is a religion, not an ethnicity. This is like saying, no no, they're not Arabs, they're Muslims.
God bless those Scythians! There is a lot of really interesting history around Black Sea cultures. I am hoping someone makes some big Varna finds soon.
Could it be possible that some of these Scythian female warriors wore some sort of padding or armor that pressed down one side of their chest, as you suggested, and the Greeks seeing this in battle just assumed they were missing a breast? That seems more likely to me than them just making it up.
A quick note - A Greek literature started around 800 BC. They were coming out of the ancient dark ages caused by the bronze age collapse. Obviously Greek history starts at that time as well. As far as I know Linear A has never been translated yet which might enlighten us to an earlier period.
We do have Linear B however which is from the Mycenaean period. However it was mostly used for bureaucratic purposes so there's only so much we can get from it. And while we can't read Linear A (or Cretan Hieroglyphs for that matter), the similarity of how they look implies those scripts were used for mostly the same thing.
The breast wasn't supposed to have been cut off, Herodotus writes that the right nipple was branded pre-puberty to prevent it forming. Likely or not. Also, "without grain" would surely mean "dont sow", as in hunter gatherers/nomads, rather than carnivorous.
Hi I’m typing this as I listen in. The Amazon Women were a matriarchal society spanning the area of southern Poland to northern Ukraine and Bulgaria. They are from the same genotype as the Vikings, however understand- the Vikings were about 1500 years later. Note Women in Viking society were considered every bit as equal to men, thus the Amazonian women’s influence upon these peoples. The reason why they were considered so good is these people were about 6 inches to 1 foot taller than the average Greek at the time likely due to diet. The Greeks were heavily into eating grains, and these northern cultures ate mostly meats, and were primarily hunters and had acess to great numbers of horses from the east. They did not call themselves Amazon, as this was a description, rather than a name. These women primarily were cavalry and charioteers, whereas the men formed phalanx. So, yea they existed but since they had no writing of their own and history relies on the Greek accounts, we have clouded lopsided accounts of them.
Thank you!! I knew this truth of the source behind these legendary warriors. You spelled it out better than what I had pieced together from my own research about history.
Its very pleasing how juicy you make your Greek gossip sound. and why let the truth ruin a good Tale has ruled as long as there have been stories to tell...
Per Wikipedia, Califia, Amazons & California "Calafia, or Califia, is the fictional queen of the island of California, first introduced by 16th century poet Garci Rodríguez de Montalvo in his epic novel of chivalry, Las sergas de Esplandián (The Adventures of Esplandián), written around 1510." "The Esplandián novel describes a fictional island named California, inhabited only by black women, ruled by Queen Calafia, and east of the Indies. When Spanish explorers, under the command of Hernán Cortés, learned of an island off the coast of Western Mexico, and rumored to be ruled by Amazon women, they named it California." (The area is now known as Baja California. It was originally believed that Baja California & Alta California were an island, off the coast of Mexico. We have since dropped "Alta" from the name of the northern part of California.) (Believe it or not, there is a famous, historic map drawn during the 16th or 17th century showing California as an island off the coast of what is now Western USA & Mexico. BTW: "Baja" means "Lower." "Alta" mean "Upper.") One summary, I read, of the story is that Queen Calafia had 300, Black, Amazon warrior women, who were originally Muslims and fought against the Christians. But she (and her warriors) later converted to Christianity and fought for the Christians. They had (or rode) giant eagles or griffins. But the griffins couldn't tell the good guys from the bad guys and caused chaos by attacking everybody (except maybe the women.)
It is also very interesting that the culture described of people on the steppes sounds so similar to the other nomadic cultures like the mongols, perhaps that could be a good comparison to draw from
Thoroughly enjoying your videos. New sub here. Was just about to type a question about the Mayor book, as it's nearing the top of my TBR mountian, but then you recommend it. Fair enough (bumps book a few places up the list). I'd be interested on your views on Atalanta as I find her fascinating yet overlooked. If you have previously done a video covering her could you post a link in any reply please? Keep up the excellent work.
have you heard of or read Christian Cameron's Tyrant series? It's set shortly after Alexander the Great's death focussing on the Crimean/Scythia region. Especially the first two parts dive deeply into Scythian/Steppe culture, the later parts are more about the Diadochi wars (centered on the Crimean Bosporos colonies).
I really enjoy videos like this. You break everything down really well to make it understandable, and weed out myth from fact, leaving us with a much more realistic view of history. Great videos.
Cultures around Greece didn't restrict women nearly as much. To the Greeks, this would have been unreal. Seeing women fight alongside their men in any capacity was a mystery to explain away lest their own women get ideas. Meanwhile, 'barbarian' women had voices and agency (even if not as much as we expect today).
the spartan women were quite free but since greek literacy is mostly domiated by Athens and probably most of the writing. no wonder they usually hated women so much
Sarmatians are depicted on Trajan's column. Astonishing details, of body and Horse armour. They came (too late) to help the Dacians. The capital of Dacia was Sarmizegetusa, which might mean Sarmi (the Sarmatians) and (ze) the Gets (Getae) together (uza): Sarmi-ze-Get-uza. But that would be a just a theory.... Yet, this idea comes from the rather very good relations between the Sarmatians and Dacians before and in that period. - Only Sarmatian men (?) are depicted on the Column, due to the fact that the women remained back to defend their tribes. However, the women's role in the warfare of the Sarmatian culture will fade out by the end of the 2nd century AD, in not a bit earlier. As it is said in this video, there are indeed overwhelming amount of women buried with all their weapons, armor, horses and slaves. One in four Sarmatian tombs are remains of women-Amazons. - (Amazing indeed, but I would stress out on taking a bath from time to time...🙃)
Fascinating! I do admit that the popular myths about Amazons are titillating and one of the main reasons I was inspired to view this video. But I have seen other videos talking about hunter/gatherer cultures and how different they were to modern cultures, especially how children were viewed as the community's children and the concept of monogamy was foreign...
There are actually some Ossetian people in the Caucasus who have revitalized the Scythian religion and ancient cultural practices as the descendants of the ancient peoples. Their understanding of the culture is completely based off of what the Greeks, Persians, Armenians, Georgians, and Chinese had to say about them, though, as well as with newer archeological discoveries.
@@2bingtim Yes, but everyone was smelly back then (at least by our standards) and most people were murderous. Unless you're saying the fact that they were extra smelly and murderous makes them cooler than everyone else.
"12 Pease, Ciceronis De Natura Deorum II 1053, collects Greek and Latin references to the Egyptian Herakles. In Hdt. 2.42-43, Herakles is almost certainly Chonsu, the son of Amon-Re and Mut at Thebes, and possibly also the sky god Shu: A. B. Lloyd, Herodotus Book II: Commentary 1-98 (Leiden 1976) 194-195 and 201-202, who points out that the two were often conflated. In Plut. De Is. et Os. 41, 367D, in contrast, he seems to be a sun god: Gwyn Griffiths, De Iside 457-458." [Phrygian Tales, J. B Rives, Footnotes] "But why did the antiquity of the Phrygians cause them to be linked with the interpretation of divine myth in particular? In order to suggest an answer, we must briefly consider why & how myth came to be interpreted in the first place. It is well known that in the Greek world of the fifth century B.C. the dominance of mythic narrative as an explanatory discourse began to be challenged by the emergence of other modes, historical, philosophical, & medical. Yet the centrality of myth in earlier Greek culture and its incorporation into classic works of art and literature, the Homeric epics above all, gave it a prestige that it never lost. One response on the part of many intellectuals was to co-opt that prestige by reinterpreting traditional divine myths as coded accounts whose real meaning could be revealed only by those with the proper interpretive key. An often-cited remark of Pausanias nicely sums up this view: “when I began this work I used to look upon these Greek stories as markedly on the foolish side; but when I had got as far as Arcadia my opinion about them became this: I guessed that the Greeks who were accounted wise spoke of old in riddles and not straight out, and that this story about Kronos is a bit of Greek wisdom” (8.8.3). In other words, divine myth could be appreciated as a type of ancient wisdom, one that through the application of the proper techniques could be mapped onto types of modern wisdom. By the Hellenistic period, a range of such techniques had been developed, of which the two most popular were precisely those attested for these Phrygian tales: the historicizing interpretation that saw the gods as ancient rulers & culture heroes, & the allegorizing interpretation that saw them as symbols of elements and forces in the natural world. 54To a large extent, no doubt, the appropriateness of these interpretive techniques could be demonstrated simply by their ability to “reveal” the modern wisdom that was alleged to lie encoded in the ancient narrative." [Phrygian Tales, J. B Rives] "Nor do I know how tenaciously the reader is going to cling to the idea, advertised by Dr. Freud, that all higher thought, except psychoanalysis, is a function of infantile anxiety." [The Masks of God: Primitive Mythology, Joseph Campbell, 1991, Part 3: Ch. 5- "Shamanism"] "His [Freud] approach was at the opposite pole from Jung's. The latter used his vast knowledge of mythology and comparative religion in an effort to elucidate the problem of neurosis. So uncertain a basis could hardly appeal to Freud. More mindful than Jung of scientific methodology, Freud drew his conclusions from his clinical work, from his observations on patients, and applying what he learned to the broader problem of religion and mythology." [Legacy of Freud, Jacob Arlow, 1956, Ch. 9 The Study of Religion] “I [Jung] was recently reproached with the charge that my teaching of the assimilation of the unconscious, were it accepted, would undermine culture and exalt primitivity at the cost of our highest values.” [Modern Man in Search of a Soul, Carl Jung, 1933, Dream-Analysis, p. 19]
Soo it's just the ancient version of how ppl misunderstand feminism. It's an equality society but ppl characterise it as aggressive savage woman dominating group.
I have massive Lady lumps and I love archery... And they never got in my way... But a wrist guard is an absolute necessity unless you want the worst rope burn you've had in the most inconvenient place possible...
Somewhere in the multiverse there is at least one world in which Scythian culture survived, settled down, developed writing, and maintained gender equality through history... just to freak out the Greeks and Romans.
It's kind of funny how history is seen through the lens of what's trendy right now. I wonder if we could go back in time and ask the scythian woman how they like it to live in such a 'free' and 'modern' society, fighting beside their men. War was a harsh profession back then, they probably saw their fair share of intestines and their brothers and sister dying screaming. It's kind of funny how so many ppl see this as a great thing to accomplish. Of course there's a lot we don't know, it's possible they were proud warriors, but I doubt they sat around their tent discussing gender equality and that's why they fought. Like many other nomadic ppl it was just a necessity not an accomplishment, because it's a demanding lifestyle. And while the greek woman had their fair share of problems with their men, I also doubt if you could go back and suggest to an ancient greek woman she should pick up a sarissa and follow the men into battle she would've liked that. Of course there were also exceptions to that ;)
@@BoredMarcus진짜 조또 모르면서 개까부네 유목민이 계속 유목만 하고 있었겠냐 유목민들은 세계로 흘러들어서 문명을 일으킨다 스키타이도 그 중 강력한 그룹이고 정착해서 훌륭한 문화를 꽃피운다 그리고 스키타이에게 여성은 곧 우주다 필요가 아니라 그냥 자연이 그러해서 그렇게 한거다 스키타이인들은 높은 수준의 정신문명을 갖고있었기때문이다 물론 물질문명도 훌륭했다 너는 근거를 댈만한 지식도 없으면서 뇌피셜로 추측하는건 망상이다 까불지마라
I used to be an instructor in archery for a few years. And we had an elderly man, whom had been a member and instructor for about 40ish years in the club who told me this storry. Now granted I can't verifie this as I never met the womman my selfe. But acording to him. Once a woman came to the club and wanted to trie Archery. And one of her "Lumps" got in the way, and the string whacked her on it. He met her a few days later, and he asked her if she was fine. Turns out ther "lump" was severly brouced by the string. And now days we got this special thingy (Dont know what it's called, as I'm a man and dont use one) that squeeces lady lumps, so that it docen't happen (or at the werry least reduces the chanse for it)
I'm an archer myself and a woman, with normal to bigger breasts, and this is kinda false. If you can't draw a bow because of your boobs, either your position is not correct or your boobs are the size of a car tire. The pectoral protection is not to squeeze the boobs, but to protect the skin from the possible friction of the bow string. My husband wears it too, because sometimes the string caught his nipple even tho he was wearing a shirt. Maybe in other countries archery is taught differently but in europe, boobs are never an obstacle. (And it's not related but your grammar made my eyes kinda hurt)
Pretty accurate, which is why I find it so hilarious that people take them as gospel alllll the time. Like they get upset at me using BCE and CE instead of BC and AD because some older people said it so it must be the way we should always refer to it. Believing everything the ancients say happened is like believing what people on Twitter said happened - some will be truthful, but most just want attention by being the most dramatic they can be.
If anyone's ever seen a woman riding a horse it becomes quite apparent that binding the breast likely was done I mean women wear bras today that function in the same fashion. No it isn't necessary to bind breast to fire a bow. But if you are riding a horse into battle where you intend to fire as many arrows as possible in the given windows you have, breast compression would be pretty useful.
Amazonians didn't do it for bows, but so that the left hand will gain more strength (I assume to carry a shield in the battle), according to Pseudo-Hippocrate in De Articulis
The Dahomeys had a female corps. They didn't have women who cut up off their "lady lumps." Of course, the Dahomey did not live anywhere near the Black Sea.
I hope this is debunking the propaganda around them and not saying they didn't exist. Would be very embarrassing as they just confirmed they did with archeology.
I thought they came from the Amazon forest in South America :P I havent heard anything else you mentioned haha But I guess they should have come from Europe since they are in those myths a lot. Hmm... All I really know is they are part of entertainment so never thought much about them.
I don't know much about the culture, but is it possible that the Scythians had distinct sub-cultures or tribes that might have, at least at times, practiced monogenderism of some kind? It is included in the mythology somewhere, isn't it, that the 100% female tribe of Amazons would regularly get together with a 100% male tribe that lived nearby for the purposes of procreation and baby-swapping and probably various spiritual practices? I'm curious about the Scythians. Is there anything more specific about their origins than 'somewhere in the east?' What were their tattoos like and could they have constituted a written language in a community that didn't have paper (I'm assuming they didn't have paper)? How did they arrive at egalitarianism? It occurs to me that there are other Amazon myths around the globe. The Greeks weren't the only people to imagine or attempt to understand the idea of a country of martial women. The Amazon rainforest, a couple of continents away, is named for legendary Amazons warriors that the Spanish claimed to encounter, isn't it? And China has some, locating them in an area that remains somewhat materiarchal to this day. I bet there are more that I've never heard of. Could the Scythians be connected to the Chinese Amazons? China is east of where the Scythians were. Thanks for the videos!
there is a video online of a woman actually pinching her lady lump point with a bowstring. Though I'm sure this could have been avoided with more training, and wearing something more sturdy than a thin blouse. Though why anyone would want to do that on a battlefield is beyond me.
The Greek Pantheon of gods almost half of them were female and Athena was a goddess of war and wiser than Ares the god of war and could defeat him in battle. Artemis also was armed with a bow and arrows.
Athena was not the goddess of "war", but the godess of wisdom and strategy. Ares was the god of war as in its pure form, coming from rage, so we could say that he was the god of violence and war. She could defeat him because strategy wins over mindless violence. Artemis was the godess of the hunt and nature, so yeah she was armed like a hunter.
@@MsTUDORSFAN Zeus was said to have swallowed Athena's mother before she was born and Athena came out of his body with a spear wearing armor. Artemis bow and arrows are better in war than a spear. Hephestus used logic to defeat Ares and Aphrodite although called god of fire he didn't even use it to defeat them but instead a net. Fishermen used net and trident to catch fish. Gladiators used net and trident to fight other gladiator armed with sword and shield.
I can also attest to that blatant fallacy, as a teenager to young woman I did archery roughly 6yrs with DD and broad back with a minimiser for support. Ancient Greeks really were misogynistic af at times, argh.
DISCLAIMER
This video was produced by a random student on the internet who loves reading, especially about ancient history and classics. The purpose of my videos is to make classics and ancient history interesting and accessible to everyone. It is important to highlight that I am not a professional or qualified educator, “expert”, historian or classicist. However, I ensure that all the information I use in my video scripts has been collated from numerous credible sources, which I will link in the description box if accessible online. I always work my hardest to deliver thoroughly researched and reliable information in my videos, but please always conduct additional, independent research to formulate a thorough understanding of any topic discussed. Additionally, I am dyslexic, and I will mispronounce words throughout this video, sometimes without realising it. This is not ill-intended or stemming from willful ignorance, and I do make the effort to research how to pronounce words before I start filming, but I often misread my phonetic spelling. In light of this, please do not rely on my video for an authoritative or reliable source of how to pronounce certain words.
thanks for the disclaimer. you can be an expert on a subject without a degree. i'm a legal expert but no lawyer. my expertise comes mainly from my practice of ethicism." which doesn't seem to be practiced in law much anymore.
may i suggest you do a history on ethicism. every culture and religion has a similar ethical canon. i call it an ethical thread that runs through history that rulers often found justifications not to apply to themselves. don't lie, steal, murder, etc are social rules that link every human society in history.
i've determined the difference between ethics and morality is that morality changes depending on when and where you live where ethics remain constant. where do ethics come from? are they instinctual, as i claim. something every human is gentically inclined to know. or do they have a social origin. were they meant to control and manipulate humanity or to provide a cohesive, uniting influence on society?
damn, that's a long comment. sorry about that.
Amazon's were crushed & destroyed by the Mother of God.
Thankyou for this. You've done an excellent job of presenting this.
As I'm from Yorkshire, I'm rather interested in the Norse myself.
It's strange to me that shieldmaidens are still apparently contentious, despite material evidence that women with full kit have been confirmed as members of the 'Great Heathen Army'. I suppose there are ideas that our culture has a problem with letting go of. Bad ideas, but that's hardly new.
ABRISA WAS QUEEN AT ONE TIME SHE NOT WELL KNOWN
@@XENAMELINDAPAPPAS High five for expressing yourself!
Ok, so the Scythians were nomadic, loved their mounts, heavily tattooed, and loved booze and drugs?
Ancient era bikers. Scythians were ancient era bikers.
...Or they will be, in the dramatised series on the History Channel.
Love it! I will never get that vision out of my head ... I feel an insane fantasy coming on ... Thank you.
All terrain bikers 😉
Only with chariots and horses.😂😂
Have you ever met women who are really into horses? Yeah, that's pretty much what they're like.
As a lady who practices archery often, with a D cup breasts, I can confirm that you don't need to cut your boobas to draw a bow. And my friend with F cups (aka huge badonkadonks) confirms it too. If anything you wear some compresive colthes to keep them in place and outta way.
having in mind how mysoginists greeks were, ...yeah, they wouldn't know that breasts are not meat obstacles that you need to get rid of.
It's like saying that men have to cut their balls to ride a horse.XD
Certainly makes you want to cut your balls off.
Even a goddamn bike!
Lol!
It’s honestly impossible to not look at the Amazons and see the myth is misogynistic in nature once you learn anything about Ancient Greek culture. It’s always a fearsome race of women warriors who get defeated by big, strong, muscular men, like inhuman monsters crushed by heroes.
The greeks didn't hate women. The incorporated biological facts into their.
Ok, now we need an ancient and legendary race of men who cut off their dangling bits to be the greatest riders.
Wait... you don't..?
Oh, God...
I could see the "only one lady lump" thing also stemming from seeing them having one bound down to keep it out of the way and the Greek observers interpreting that as "oh, they must only have the one!". After all, it wouldn't be the first time such an assumption was made about a foreign culture.
Right, and unless they saw them without their kit off, they wouldn't know for sure (which would allow for wild speculation).
Or just translation errors as well.
Stuff like " one breast showing" or "one bound".
Antiwhite
They could’ve been talking about uniboob from the clothes they wore
Hitler only had one too.
In Polish "amazonka" means "a female horse rider" (not a warrior at all so that's kind of funny) and is often used by equestrians.
It's rarely in English, but I've heard it. Common in German.
In Spanish it's the same. Amazona means a woman who's a skilled horse rider. It has no fighting or warring implications.
In french, we only use the word "amazone" to name the horse-riding style of having both legs on the same side of the horse. Truly "funny" how the whole warrior and independent aspects of the myth were lost in the everyday references.
한국어로 amazon은 "azonma" 즉 여성 그 자체다 이 단어는 현대에 이르러 비하적인 의미로 사용되기도 하는데 그 이유는 한국이 300년 전부터 여성억압국이 됐기때문이다 하지만 한국의 근본은 모계사회다 그리고 고대한국 왕조의 일부가 일본왕조를 건국했는데 이 왕조는 제사를 지낼때 "azime"라고 외친다 일본인들은 뜻을 잘 모르는데 한국어랑 같은 뜻이다 여성의 존칭어이다 일본은 기원후 최초로 여왕이 있던 나라다 심지어 일본을 정벌했던 고대한국인은 여자다
참고로 한국은 북방기마민족이 그 기원이다 우리는 말의 민족이다
I remember telling my world history teacher that the Amazons were based on ancient Scythian women. He didn't believe me. Then a fantastic PBS documentary about an "Amazon" burial and DNA testing it, showing that the buried woman had descendants in modern day Mongolia, especially young women who have naturally blonde hair. I felt so damn vindicated.
Those women were Kazak, Turks, NOT Scythians, who were 1 of many Eurasian steppe
peoples---Iranians like Scythians, Sarmatians,and still existing Tajiks, also many Turkic, peoples, including Kazaks,, and also Mongols, etc. even
the early Bulgarians.
@@tymanung6382 thank you for such opinion
ive been reading about my people recently (im chuvash, i.e. the descendant of early bulgarians/huns/sogdianians if i were to believe my books)
now im very not sure of the timeline but people of sogdiana might have contributed to that myth and i think they were just turks
im sorry if im very wrong i dont know how to learn about history and im doing my best
@@tymanung6382 I think the fact that ancient warrior women seem like such a foreign concept to us really shows, how much our view of antiquity is clouded by our focus by myths of the ancient greeks and biblical hebrew, who were rather misogynist even compared to their contemporaries. I think if more than anything, the myths of the amazons show us how misogynist the ancient greeks actually were, as they very likely could not imagine a culture in which men would fight side by side with women, so they had to make up basically a straw-feminazi culture.
Don’t ever stop calling out the truth. It’s a hard road but when you reach my age you will be rich with wisdom and no one can ever take that from you. Take care.
@@fool4343 .
Given the state of "medicine" at that times, the amputation of any bodypart would have been a great method to make sure you never get enough warriors to make up a decent army........
The amputation of those body parts may have been historically accurate but not to soot with the bow but because of war injuries. For a Greek an image of few warrior woman with one part may have been very unusual and great to be exaggerated for an interesting story.
"medicine" "at that time" was quite decent.
"I haven't got the resources to conduct that experiment." Relatable. This was really interesting. Really enjoying the educational content.
Thrilled to hear it, Kendra (: x
When I studied Ancient Greek art in my college days, the depictions of Amazons showed them with both lady lumps.
She just wants something to bitch about dont ruin it for her
I used to be a combat archer in a larp (Amtgard and Shadow Accord), and I'm a busty lady. Never once caught my lady lumps in a bow string. Always thought that myth was kinda stupid.
Of the hundreds of female archers I've known, I don't think there has been one who's lady-lump (my new favourite word, thanx) was truely endangered by her bowstring. Both male and female (modern) archers wear a chestprotector to keep their clothing out of the bowstring's way. And as a good spot to carry their club's badge!
I would imagine that the scarring caused by the primitive surgical skills of the time would be more of a hindrance to archery than a lady lump of any size. 😄
I think most ancient civilizations (especially in harsh regions such as scandinavia for example) were fairly ”egalitarian” where most people (man and Woman) were simply expected to pull their own weight in society. We even had something called ”ättestupa” (familyline fall/death) where elderly could Jump to their death when they because a burden to their family.
Old stories from WW II veterans dealing with WW I veterans and people who got off the boat in USA.
Back in the old country, meaning Italy/ Sicily or Germany once an old person became too unstable and can't fend for themselves, you fix the elder a going away feast and got them drunk follow with a headlock sleeper and neck break. Scotland or Ireland the elders just got drunk and went for a walk in the snow at night and froze to death. Traditions like this was still going on in the early part of the 1900's.
Watch out this asumption, just because some cultures had at some point warrior women, high priestess, female bards and so on doesn't mean they where egalitarian. At best there could being seeing as an oddity (most of the time there where part of nobility which had more power and opportunities, or the where the only member left of their families) while others still looked down on them for not being in "traditional" gender roles. Not only that but even if there where women on high positions there where still under strict rules only made for them, like how vestals had to keep chastity, or if they get married there had to leave their weapons and stop going to war, or if they cheated on their husbands they could be punished by death.
I think far from most ancient civilizations were egalitarian. Most of the more well-known ancient civilizations were still patriarchal and those more well-known civilizations also had the highest populations.
It seems like nomadic tribes are the ones that are most egalitarian, and as you said, places with harsher living conditions
@@nidohime6233 Many like to proclaim that a lot of indigenous American societies were egalitarian or matriarchal, but it was more so that women were given certain social responsibilities while men were expected to handle others, and when one took on responsibilities outside of their "nature" they were seen as being two spirited, or of having the spirit of the other sex. Some women also were expected to take on responsibilities of both sexes due to men in their families dying or being taken captive and they tended to be held in the highest honours. Typically women were expected to deal with internal bureaucracy while men took on positions of power regarding external affairs such as commerce, diplomacy, and warfare. Many indigenous cultures would have roles that both sexes were expected to participate in, as well, such as agriculture and animal husbandry.
@@enbeast8350 perhaps when they had established themselves enough to afford not to be egalitarian. Initially, I dont think any civilisation could afford to not treat everyone like simply a resource for survival.
"How do you like your warrior ladies? One lump or two?"
Thanks for another great video.
I love how (like it happens modern day) some stories travel fast and change depending who is telling it. The version that the Amazons were the women of a tribe that started to fought when the men were killed in war really stroke a core and travelled. The same thing with the legend of the Golden Fleece, many tribes near the Black Sea used sheep and goat skins to filtrate the gold out of the river streams. The world of the late bronze age was really interconnected allowing stories like theese to travel and develope.
You’re also a trained archer? Be still my heart! And “lady lumps” lmao you are a gem.
Perfect video to wake up and drink my coffee with.
From eight months away, I did the same thing today! 🥰🌞☕
That is so cool you used to do archery! Always see archery groups at the park and am so jealous of their skills
I did archery from the age of 10 to 15. I only took it up because I wanted to be Legolas 🙈
@@CinziaDuBois Aww that's honestly really sweet! Feels relatable tho
The fact that the warrior women weren't called "Monomazon" or "Henomazon" seems like even further evidence against the Greek folk etymology, but I may be being too strict in my interpretation of the A- prefix. After all, at least one presumable native speaker of classical Greek apparently thought such usage was plausible enough.
Monomazon
Doot dooooo do-do doot!
Monomazon
Doot doo-doot doo!
How lovely it is to spend my lunchtime listening to your pleasant intonation while I imbibe both soup and knowledge. Thank you, Cinzia.
You are so welcome, Bonnie!!
I realize I'm late to this video but I'd like to add for anyone interested that the early domesticated horses were small and not super able to be ridden. So especially a man in armour would be very difficult for a horse to carry so it is very possible these nomadic horse cultures promoted women in war because they were lighter and the horses could handle them better. It is very possible the first cavalry ever were women. This is why chariots were waaaayyy more common in the bronze age than any other time. The horses couldn't handle people as easily at the time.
인정을 좀 해! 그냥 여성이 권위가 높아서 말도 타고 활도 쏜거야
Thank you so much Cinzia, your debunkling videos are always super exciting! 🙆♀️
Glad you like them!
I’ve known about the Sythian culture for a little while, but had no idea that they interacted with other civilizations like the Ancient Greeks, or that they might have been the inspiration for the Amazons!!! Super cool, tysm for sharing!! Gives me a lot more context for the world they lived in. ☺️
"May you never have to own more than you wish to carry!" Scythian blessing?
The Scythian's also used a certain green plant as a painkiller, seeds have been found in some of the tombs, including my favorite the "Princess of Uzok" Looking at getting a tattoo inspired by hers at some point :)
If there's anything that Mythology and Folklore has taught me it's that there's only a very small grain of truth contained within the Legends.
그 반대지 모든 진실을 상징화한거임 그걸 바르게 읽을때 진실에 눈 뜰 수 있음 즉 그것을 만든 사람들과 시대적 배경의 맥락을 함께 고려하면 진실이 보임 고대그리스신화는 왜 아마존 여자가슴을 다 도려냈다고 개소리했는지가 젤 중요한 상징임
In the Indian subcontinent(South Asia), some groups from the state of Haryana(India) have the highest steppe DNA (sintashta_mlba & yamnaya). Sintashta is often 30-45% for the greater northern region _(NW Pakistan, Pak Punjab, above Delhi region of India)_ as per group identities.
But Harayana is more special because groups like Rors & Jaats here are who cause those DNA figures to go as high as 45%. Brit researchers during British Raj hypothesized these groups to be of Indo Scythian stock. After all these years, one weird thing found in genetic studies is that Harayana jaats have significant frequency of haplogroup Q1, which isn't found in rest of South Asia. Q1 is also indo european, like R1a & R1b, and Q1 is super common in scythian burial analysis, along with R1a. Besides the eastern euro like lighter phenotype occurance in haryana people, other stereotypes about them are that _"their women are super tough & tomboyish."_ Haryanavi tongue is a crass, aggressive sounding dialect of Hindi language.
There's a whole topic of how the "jats" name is derived from scythians like _Massagetae._ I don't know how accurate all that is. Ancient texts have recorded the jats to be later entrants to the subcontinent(i.e after sintashta indo aryan migrations, after vedic age).
The culture of harayana is also quite closed off & mysterious(you would hardly find their pics on google). Ironically, these people who are highest in steppe DNA have been historically labelled as "lower castes" because they refused to integrate themselves in the Ganga Middle India Hinduism. This is quite true for the whole North-West subcontinent.... Middle India(ganga belt) had become the central power in later vedic age & times after that. Anybody who refused to follow the exploitative caste based fourfold system was labelled as outcastes. North-West subcontinent people, who were responsible for literally bringing in the IE languages & vedic culture, got later stereotyped as barbarians.
Could these Jats have something to do with Jazygs/the Jász people?
The ones i'm talking about originate from Iran.
In Hungary we have a county named after them and the mongol Cumans.
I can totally picture you as a badass lady warrior archer person!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Truly educational, though further speculation could of divined that many of them would likely have been mounted archers as that was the preferred fighting style of that region and requires less physical strength (although still a great deal with those horn and sinew bows) than a speared shield wall favored by the Greeks and Romans. Swords were almost always used as backup weapons in all cases.
I have never heard of a speared shieldwall being used by the Greeks or Romans.
기마병이 얼마나 연습을 많이해야하는 줄 앎? 어릴때부터 말타고 다님 활연습도 맨날 함 활은 금속문명의 정수임 정교한 칼로 다듬어야하거든ㅋ 그냥 문명 수준이 더 높은건데?
I found the story about Heracles and the Scythian ancestry very intriguing because, there is a myth from the Mahabharat, the second great Indian epic, that follows an almost identical story.
Arjun, arguably the central mortal hero of the epic and the greatest warrior out of his 5 royal brothers, is chosen to accompany a ceremonial horse as it wanders through the Indian subcontinent.
This was the Ashwamedha Yagna, a ceremony which entailed a blessed horse to travel wherever it wished and whatever land it entered became a part of the Empire that had sent it. If a ruler did not want to become apart of the expanding empire, they'd have to fight the horse's keeper (in this case Arjun) to maintain their sovereignty.
So Arjun was accompanying this horse and it was stopped by a Naga princess; the Nagas were said to be a divine/semi-divine race of half-human and half-serpent (the word Naga is a derivation of the Sanskrit word for cobra ). And these people were likely some of the nomadic tribes living in the forest, who were very physically strong and 'wild' hence the divine and animal associations lent to them.
This princess, Ulupi, refused to give the horse back and as she was a divine creature, and a woman, fighting her would be improper. He was compelled to plead for her wishes and she demanded to bear his children. Arjun agreed, did the deed, got the horse and went on his way. Afterwards she gave birth to his child.
It's interesting how legends from great, contemporary civilisations mirror each other.
Okay, few things to add.
Argonautica describes Amazonians only mating with Colchian men. This is important because oldest grave sights of female warriors have been found in modern day Georgia. In general Scythians and Kartvelians had a long running interaction, Smiths of the Caucasus were praised for their craft so often they were kidnapped by Scythian warbands. Some warbands were entirely comprised of women so this is a possible origin of the myth.
Crimea is thought to be their homeland.
Also Azerbaijan came to be after the Turkish migration into anatolia, a thousand year after the Scythians were no more, well surviving parts became Alans, but still. Before them there was kingdom of (caucasian) Albania.
Must have been incredibly easy for an all-female warband to abduct a middle age smith.
@@MrCmon113 I'd be down.
Actually our mythic Smith god Pircush was kidnapped by Giants and made to craft magic items for them. So there is a mythic memory of this act.
I am Ingush.
We call our self Galgai. Aka:
Colchis
Gargareans
Kisti
Qalqans
Halka
Gligvi
Dzurdzuks
Gelians
Lamoor
Loamaro
Ingushians
With no doubt we are direct descendants of the ancient Amazones and the Gargareans mentioned by Strabo.
Happy Women's History Month!
Happy women's history month!
I never knew I would enjoy hearing the term "lady lumps" so much until I stumbled on this video. You make it sound so melodic and elegant. Love the accent and the voice. And the content is interesting too 😊
I am Circassian and we are from that region and the language etymology makes sense. My aunt's name is Maza too!
Glad no lumps were harmed in the making of this video.
As someone who has studied a bit of Viking history there's a bit of a problem with the Romans being the ones to preserve many accounts of warrior women and... There was clearly some kind of fetish there. Just from what was described and how.
We know the Germanic tribes did have fighting women and that they dressed exactly the same in combat as the men, to the point of being indistinguishable, though they were less common. There's multiple non Roman sources, including archeological ones, and we know the Roman account was absolutely inaccurate and borderline masterbatory.
The Amazon's have few original sources outside the Greek and Roman so it's difficult to tell if they were based on a real tribe or for the titilation of Greek men.
It might be possible to compare the actual Germanic/Old Norse warrior women with what the Romans wrote of them though, and then interpolate what they added to all these tales and what was unique to the Amazon one.
I have a document about the (frankly extensive) evidence for warrior women in Old Norse society with some extensive sources and citations, including the Roman account of them. I'll post it as a reply to this (after I dig it out) and hope Cinzia hasn't blacklisted out link based comments (though generally speaking it's a good idea) or that she manually review and unflags it if she has. It's a good read, promise 👍🏼
If the link didn't pop up you can try searching for
"Yes all warriors
The importance of fierce warriors,
and relative unimportance of gender,
in Old Norse culture.
(AKA: Vikings didn’t care about your genitals if you were ready and able to disembowel someone.)"
It's been floating around online for a while.
@@TheGrinningViking gender was really important to medival Scandinavians. Even these women that fought were considered really Manish
@@TheGrinningViking Read the document. Sounds like they weren't very good warriors, since they died as teenagers according to archaeology. Imagine a teenage girl boxing a seasoned vet. Not good. Though I do believe many, if not most, pagans did allow young women to fight if the young women were willing. This is why the Abrahamic patriarchal religions conquered the world. No societies protected mothers and children (the culture's future) as well as the nations that adopted these religions. The pagan peoples never stood a chance in the long run. Death by attrition if nothing else.
@@TheGrinningViking perhaps give the author names, journal and date. Or the DOI. Makes it much easier to search for. I can't find anything using that search text.
The only real description of a Viking Warrior women (other than mythology) was by Saxo Germanicus who wrote of Amazonian type of society among the Vikings. However, his account almost 300 years after the "Viking period" and there was no evidence that such a society was purposely set up. Having said that, Women did migrate with the men when the Viking Army invaded England, The Volga region, to help set up new colonies and their remains were found among the men in the battlefields. But there is no evidence that they were Warriors as a whole except perhaps among the nobility of time.
Well done! I have one quibble: the Greeks view of the Amazons is quite a bit more complex that she says. While it's easy to think the ancient Greeks viewed the Amazons (as they saw them) as "monstrous" and needing to be conquered and killed, a closer reading reveals rather different attitudes. Of course, Greeks opinion was not monolithic (as no society is) and one should beware of generalizing, but I will note one example (to keep this short): Greek girls have been found buried with dolls of armed and armored Amazon warrior queens. That (in combination with the Greek myths and artwork) says something very interesting.
BTW: The best source on the Amazons is Adrienne Mayor's book "The Amazons."
Last note on Penthesilea. The late Martin West concluded that the Aethiopis was composed from two earlier poems, a "Song of Memnon" and a "Song of Penthesilea." Memnon is very much a late-comer to the cycle, and Homer could not have had any conception of him (he was added in by the New Poets generations after Homer), but the Penthesilea legend is of great antiquity and Homer almost certainly knew of it, just as he used an ancient "Song of Achilles" as of his sources for the Iliad. So the legend of Penthesilea and Achilles is much more important to the Iliad than often thought. That argument will not fit in a comment, of course.
The phrase "with but a singular lady lump" is now living rent-free in my head and I don't mind in the slightest 🙂
I've heard references about the Sarmathians a number of times but it's really hard to find historical sources that seem somewhat unified on the topic. Could you do a video about them at some point?
you might be interested in reading about two Native American/ "American Indian" women, if you haven't already heard about them, war chief "Pretty Nose" and "Buffalo Calf Road Woman" here are the wikipedia pages for both women. I think you might find it interesting! Pretty Nose - Wikipedia Buffalo Calf Road Woman - Wikipedia
They're called Indians, not Americans Indians. Those from India are called Hindus.
@@ejokurirulezz They're called native Americans. Hinduism is a religion, not an ethnicity.
This is like saying, no no, they're not Arabs, they're Muslims.
God bless those Scythians! There is a lot of really interesting history around Black Sea cultures. I am hoping someone makes some big Varna finds soon.
Could it be possible that some of these Scythian female warriors wore some sort of padding or armor that pressed down one side of their chest, as you suggested, and the Greeks seeing this in battle just assumed they were missing a breast? That seems more likely to me than them just making it up.
Cyclops origin story
없어 신화는 다 메타언어야 맥락을 읽어라 고대그리스 남성들이 얼마나 스키타이를 폄훼하고 싶었는지? 그 동기가 뭐겠니 두려워 할 것이 없다면 사실만을 적어도 충분히 비웃을 수 있었겠지ㅋ
Yes! Finally someone who debunks the nonsense, but keeps the truth. 💜💜💜
A quick note - A Greek literature started around 800 BC. They were coming out of the ancient dark ages caused by the bronze age collapse. Obviously Greek history starts at that time as well. As far as I know Linear A has never been translated yet which might enlighten us to an earlier period.
We do have Linear B however which is from the Mycenaean period. However it was mostly used for bureaucratic purposes so there's only so much we can get from it. And while we can't read Linear A (or Cretan Hieroglyphs for that matter), the similarity of how they look implies those scripts were used for mostly the same thing.
The breast wasn't supposed to have been cut off, Herodotus writes that the right nipple was branded pre-puberty to prevent it forming. Likely or not.
Also, "without grain" would surely mean "dont sow", as in hunter gatherers/nomads, rather than carnivorous.
Hi I’m typing this as I listen in. The Amazon Women were a matriarchal society spanning the area of southern Poland to northern Ukraine and Bulgaria. They are from the same genotype as the Vikings, however understand- the Vikings were about 1500 years later. Note Women in Viking society were considered every bit as equal to men, thus the Amazonian women’s influence upon these peoples. The reason why they were considered so good is these people were about 6 inches to 1 foot taller than the average Greek at the time likely due to diet. The Greeks were heavily into eating grains, and these northern cultures ate mostly meats, and were primarily hunters and had acess to great numbers of horses from the east. They did not call themselves Amazon, as this was a description, rather than a name. These women primarily were cavalry and charioteers, whereas the men formed phalanx. So, yea they existed but since they had no writing of their own and history relies on the Greek accounts, we have clouded lopsided accounts of them.
Thank you!! I knew this truth of the source behind these legendary warriors. You spelled it out better than what I had pieced together from my own research about history.
Thank you for this highly engaging summary of my book "The Amazons" -- I enjoyed this video very much
Seems to be a wonderful book - I'll have to look it up!
If removing a lump made one a better archer, removing male dangly bits would in theory make them faster runners
I would love to hear you and Liv Albert, the host of the Let’s Talk About Myths Baby podcast, have a conversation about some Greek mythology.
Its very pleasing how juicy you make your Greek gossip sound.
and why let the truth ruin a good Tale has ruled as long as there have been stories to tell...
Very interesting take on the subject. I appreciate you giving your references so that we can learn more
This was such a fun informational video! I've actually never learned about the amazons before so this was really cool to hear about :)
I hope they used their discarded lady lump as some sort of projectile to their at enemy armies.
Fascinating video, loved it. 🙂
So glad the algorithm brought me to your channel!
This is incredible, both in content and delivery. You have a new subscriber!
Per Wikipedia, Califia, Amazons & California
"Calafia, or Califia, is the fictional queen of the island of California, first introduced by 16th century poet Garci Rodríguez de Montalvo in his epic novel of chivalry, Las sergas de Esplandián (The Adventures of Esplandián), written around 1510."
"The Esplandián novel describes a fictional island named California, inhabited only by black women, ruled by Queen Calafia, and east of the Indies. When Spanish explorers, under the command of Hernán Cortés, learned of an island off the coast of Western Mexico, and rumored to be ruled by Amazon women, they named it California."
(The area is now known as Baja California. It was originally believed that Baja California & Alta California were an island, off the coast of Mexico. We have since dropped "Alta" from the name of the northern part of California.) (Believe it or not, there is a famous, historic map drawn during the 16th or 17th century showing California as an island off the coast of what is now Western USA & Mexico. BTW: "Baja" means "Lower." "Alta" mean "Upper.")
One summary, I read, of the story is that Queen Calafia had 300, Black, Amazon warrior women, who were originally Muslims and fought against the Christians. But she (and her warriors) later converted to Christianity and fought for the Christians. They had (or rode) giant eagles or griffins. But the griffins couldn't tell the good guys from the bad guys and caused chaos by attacking everybody (except maybe the women.)
It is also very interesting that the culture described of people on the steppes sounds so similar to the other nomadic cultures like the mongols, perhaps that could be a good comparison to draw from
A fascinating group of women. Thank you for another insightful video.
Glad you enjoyed it, Janice!
Thoroughly enjoying your videos. New sub here.
Was just about to type a question about the Mayor book, as it's nearing the top of my TBR mountian, but then you recommend it. Fair enough (bumps book a few places up the list).
I'd be interested on your views on Atalanta as I find her fascinating yet overlooked. If you have previously done a video covering her could you post a link in any reply please?
Keep up the excellent work.
have you heard of or read Christian Cameron's Tyrant series?
It's set shortly after Alexander the Great's death focussing on the Crimean/Scythia region. Especially the first two parts dive deeply into Scythian/Steppe culture, the later parts are more about the Diadochi wars (centered on the Crimean Bosporos colonies).
I really enjoy videos like this. You break everything down really well to make it understandable, and weed out myth from fact, leaving us with a much more realistic view of history. Great videos.
It is more satisfactory to weed out the myth than to myth out on the weed!
In the same geographical region, modern Kurdish women have fought ISIS with great bravery.
Well my mother’s family is from Croatia, and she is over 6 feet tall. Perhaps she and I are descended from the Amazons?
Cultures around Greece didn't restrict women nearly as much. To the Greeks, this would have been unreal. Seeing women fight alongside their men in any capacity was a mystery to explain away lest their own women get ideas. Meanwhile, 'barbarian' women had voices and agency (even if not as much as we expect today).
the spartan women were quite free but since greek literacy is mostly domiated by Athens and probably most of the writing. no wonder they usually hated women so much
I have big Lady Mountains and I had my first archery lesson and hit the target bull's eye! So this doesn't matter. 🏹 Go girl power!
Don't mean to pry but did you hit said bullseye with the mountain? Powerful indeed. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Sarmatians are depicted on Trajan's column.
Astonishing details, of body and Horse armour.
They came (too late) to help the Dacians.
The capital of Dacia was Sarmizegetusa, which might mean Sarmi (the Sarmatians) and (ze) the Gets (Getae) together (uza): Sarmi-ze-Get-uza.
But that would be a just a theory....
Yet, this idea comes from the rather very good relations between the Sarmatians and Dacians before and in that period.
-
Only Sarmatian men (?) are depicted on the Column, due to the fact that the women remained back to defend their tribes.
However, the women's role in the warfare of the Sarmatian culture will fade out by the end of the 2nd century AD, in not a bit earlier.
As it is said in this video, there are indeed overwhelming amount of women buried with all their weapons, armor, horses and slaves.
One in four Sarmatian tombs are remains of women-Amazons.
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(Amazing indeed, but I would stress out on taking a bath from time to time...🙃)
I'm an archer, and my lady lumps have never ever got in the way.
"I haven't got the resources. . . " fantastic delivery.
Fascinating! I do admit that the popular myths about Amazons are titillating and one of the main reasons I was inspired to view this video. But I have seen other videos talking about hunter/gatherer cultures and how different they were to modern cultures, especially how children were viewed as the community's children and the concept of monogamy was foreign...
Now I want there to be a documentary all about the Scythians. They sound like they were fascinating people.
There are actually some Ossetian people in the Caucasus who have revitalized the Scythian religion and ancient cultural practices as the descendants of the ancient peoples. Their understanding of the culture is completely based off of what the Greeks, Persians, Armenians, Georgians, and Chinese had to say about them, though, as well as with newer archeological discoveries.
Yes, but very smelly & murderous.
@@2bingtim Yes, but everyone was smelly back then (at least by our standards) and most people were murderous. Unless you're saying the fact that they were extra smelly and murderous makes them cooler than everyone else.
@@DragonFae16 The smell alone could murder.
That was their secret weapon for close ranges, lmao.
@@gabork5055 Well, for a trained warrior, even a slipt second of distraction in the enemy was all they needed.
"12 Pease, Ciceronis De Natura Deorum II 1053, collects Greek and Latin references to the Egyptian Herakles. In Hdt. 2.42-43, Herakles is almost certainly Chonsu, the son of Amon-Re and Mut at Thebes, and possibly also the sky god Shu: A. B. Lloyd, Herodotus Book II: Commentary 1-98 (Leiden 1976) 194-195 and 201-202, who points out that the two were often conflated. In Plut. De Is. et Os. 41, 367D, in contrast, he seems to be a sun god: Gwyn Griffiths, De Iside 457-458."
[Phrygian Tales, J. B Rives, Footnotes]
"But why did the antiquity of the Phrygians cause them to be linked with the interpretation of divine myth in particular? In order to suggest an answer, we must briefly consider why & how myth came to be interpreted in the first place. It is well known that in the Greek world of the fifth century B.C. the dominance of mythic narrative as an explanatory discourse began to be challenged by the emergence of other modes, historical, philosophical, & medical. Yet the centrality of myth in earlier Greek culture and its incorporation into classic works of art and literature, the Homeric epics above all, gave it a prestige that it never lost. One response on the part of many intellectuals was to co-opt that prestige by reinterpreting traditional divine myths as coded accounts whose real meaning could be revealed only by those with the proper interpretive key. An often-cited remark of Pausanias nicely sums up this view:
“when I began this work I used to look upon these Greek stories as markedly on the foolish side; but when I had got as far as Arcadia my opinion about them became this: I guessed that the Greeks who were accounted wise spoke of old in riddles and not straight out, and that this story about Kronos is a bit of Greek wisdom”
(8.8.3). In other words, divine myth could be appreciated as a type of ancient wisdom, one that through the application of the proper techniques could be mapped onto types of modern wisdom. By the Hellenistic period, a range of such techniques had been developed, of which the two most popular were precisely those attested for these Phrygian tales: the historicizing interpretation that saw the gods as ancient rulers & culture heroes, & the allegorizing interpretation that saw them as symbols of elements and forces in the natural world.
54To a large extent, no doubt, the appropriateness of these interpretive techniques could be demonstrated simply by their ability to “reveal” the modern wisdom that was alleged to lie encoded in the ancient narrative."
[Phrygian Tales, J. B Rives]
"Nor do I know how tenaciously the reader is going to cling to the idea, advertised by Dr. Freud, that all higher thought, except psychoanalysis, is a function of infantile anxiety."
[The Masks of God: Primitive Mythology, Joseph Campbell, 1991, Part 3: Ch. 5- "Shamanism"]
"His [Freud] approach was at the opposite pole from Jung's. The latter used his vast knowledge of mythology and comparative religion in an effort to elucidate the problem of neurosis. So uncertain a basis could hardly appeal to Freud. More mindful than Jung of scientific methodology, Freud drew his conclusions from his clinical work, from his observations on patients, and applying what he learned to the broader problem of religion and mythology."
[Legacy of Freud, Jacob Arlow, 1956, Ch. 9 The Study of Religion]
“I [Jung] was recently reproached with the charge that my teaching of the assimilation of the unconscious, were it accepted, would undermine culture and exalt primitivity at the cost of our highest values.”
[Modern Man in Search of a Soul, Carl Jung, 1933, Dream-Analysis, p. 19]
"Princess of Ukok" - a frozen female warrior from 975 BC, Pazyrk Scythian.
Could the wearing of a 'flattening' guard by archers, perhaps have reinforced the 'sans-lumpe' myth do you reckon?
Soo it's just the ancient version of how ppl misunderstand feminism.
It's an equality society but ppl characterise it as aggressive savage woman dominating group.
Just wanted to let you know I’ve recently discovered you and very much enjoy your content! Thank you for this interesting video!
Lovely to meet you! Thank you for subbing (:
04:02 This makes infinitely more sense to me...
So, at least 'in my head canon', I'll consider this absolute fact...
I am loving these videos!
Glad you like them!
I have massive Lady lumps and I love archery... And they never got in my way... But a wrist guard is an absolute necessity unless you want the worst rope burn you've had in the most inconvenient place possible...
Somewhere in the multiverse there is at least one world in which Scythian culture survived, settled down, developed writing, and maintained gender equality through history... just to freak out the Greeks and Romans.
It's kind of funny how history is seen through the lens of what's trendy right now. I wonder if we could go back in time and ask the scythian woman how they like it to live in such a 'free' and 'modern' society, fighting beside their men. War was a harsh profession back then, they probably saw their fair share of intestines and their brothers and sister dying screaming. It's kind of funny how so many ppl see this as a great thing to accomplish. Of course there's a lot we don't know, it's possible they were proud warriors, but I doubt they sat around their tent discussing gender equality and that's why they fought. Like many other nomadic ppl it was just a necessity not an accomplishment, because it's a demanding lifestyle.
And while the greek woman had their fair share of problems with their men, I also doubt if you could go back and suggest to an ancient greek woman she should pick up a sarissa and follow the men into battle she would've liked that. Of course there were also exceptions to that ;)
@@BoredMarcus진짜 조또 모르면서 개까부네 유목민이 계속 유목만 하고 있었겠냐 유목민들은 세계로 흘러들어서 문명을 일으킨다 스키타이도 그 중 강력한 그룹이고 정착해서 훌륭한 문화를 꽃피운다 그리고 스키타이에게 여성은 곧 우주다 필요가 아니라 그냥 자연이 그러해서 그렇게 한거다 스키타이인들은 높은 수준의 정신문명을 갖고있었기때문이다 물론 물질문명도 훌륭했다 너는 근거를 댈만한 지식도 없으면서 뇌피셜로 추측하는건 망상이다 까불지마라
I used to be an instructor in archery for a few years. And we had an elderly man, whom had been a member and instructor for about 40ish years in the club who told me this storry.
Now granted I can't verifie this as I never met the womman my selfe. But acording to him.
Once a woman came to the club and wanted to trie Archery. And one of her "Lumps" got in the way, and the string whacked her on it. He met her a few days later, and he asked her if she was fine. Turns out ther "lump" was severly brouced by the string. And now days we got this special thingy (Dont know what it's called, as I'm a man and dont use one) that squeeces lady lumps, so that it docen't happen (or at the werry least reduces the chanse for it)
I'm an archer myself and a woman, with normal to bigger breasts, and this is kinda false. If you can't draw a bow because of your boobs, either your position is not correct or your boobs are the size of a car tire. The pectoral protection is not to squeeze the boobs, but to protect the skin from the possible friction of the bow string. My husband wears it too, because sometimes the string caught his nipple even tho he was wearing a shirt.
Maybe in other countries archery is taught differently but in europe, boobs are never an obstacle.
(And it's not related but your grammar made my eyes kinda hurt)
Excellent video, the volume of the knowledge this woman holds is impressive.
"Ancient accounts" seem like they are about as reliable as the average tabloid.
Pretty accurate, which is why I find it so hilarious that people take them as gospel alllll the time. Like they get upset at me using BCE and CE instead of BC and AD because some older people said it so it must be the way we should always refer to it. Believing everything the ancients say happened is like believing what people on Twitter said happened - some will be truthful, but most just want attention by being the most dramatic they can be.
If anyone's ever seen a woman riding a horse it becomes quite apparent that binding the breast likely was done I mean women wear bras today that function in the same fashion. No it isn't necessary to bind breast to fire a bow. But if you are riding a horse into battle where you intend to fire as many arrows as possible in the given windows you have, breast compression would be pretty useful.
Amazonians didn't do it for bows, but so that the left hand will gain more strength (I assume to carry a shield in the battle), according to Pseudo-Hippocrate in De Articulis
The Dahomeys had a female corps. They didn't have women who cut up off their "lady lumps." Of course, the Dahomey did not live anywhere near the Black Sea.
I don't know about anyone else but a warrior woman with a lot of tattoos sounds really hot to me.
what an amazing channel. happy that youtube recommended you.
Thank you 😊
This is very random and not related but I read your bio and I am also and infj and I’ve never met another infj. Crazy!
"Lady lumps", I love it!
What do the non-Greek sources say about the Scythians?
I hope this is debunking the propaganda around them and not saying they didn't exist. Would be very embarrassing as they just confirmed they did with archeology.
partying with the amazons sounds like a blast! The Greeks were missing out imo
I thought they came from the Amazon forest in South America :P
I havent heard anything else you mentioned haha
But I guess they should have come from Europe since they are in those myths a lot. Hmm...
All I really know is they are part of entertainment so never thought much about them.
I don't know much about the culture, but is it possible that the Scythians had distinct sub-cultures or tribes that might have, at least at times, practiced monogenderism of some kind? It is included in the mythology somewhere, isn't it, that the 100% female tribe of Amazons would regularly get together with a 100% male tribe that lived nearby for the purposes of procreation and baby-swapping and probably various spiritual practices?
I'm curious about the Scythians. Is there anything more specific about their origins than 'somewhere in the east?' What were their tattoos like and could they have constituted a written language in a community that didn't have paper (I'm assuming they didn't have paper)? How did they arrive at egalitarianism?
It occurs to me that there are other Amazon myths around the globe. The Greeks weren't the only people to imagine or attempt to understand the idea of a country of martial women. The Amazon rainforest, a couple of continents away, is named for legendary Amazons warriors that the Spanish claimed to encounter, isn't it? And China has some, locating them in an area that remains somewhat materiarchal to this day. I bet there are more that I've never heard of.
Could the Scythians be connected to the Chinese Amazons? China is east of where the Scythians were.
Thanks for the videos!
How did I miss this video?! I was obsessed with Amazon legends when I was little.
But I also have a thing for dominate women lol
... don't judge me.
I wonder how Scythian and early Vikings get along in a 🏕 🔥 BBQ 🍺 festival?
there is a video online of a woman actually pinching her lady lump point with a bowstring.
Though I'm sure this could have been avoided with more training, and wearing something more sturdy than a thin blouse.
Though why anyone would want to do that on a battlefield is beyond me.
You are as entertaining as you are charming. Love your videos.
I appreciate that, Allen!
The Greek Pantheon of gods almost half of them were female and Athena was a goddess of war and wiser than Ares the god of war and could defeat him in battle. Artemis also was armed with a bow and arrows.
Athena was not the goddess of "war", but the godess of wisdom and strategy. Ares was the god of war as in its pure form, coming from rage, so we could say that he was the god of violence and war. She could defeat him because strategy wins over mindless violence.
Artemis was the godess of the hunt and nature, so yeah she was armed like a hunter.
@@MsTUDORSFAN Zeus was said to have swallowed Athena's mother before she was born and Athena came out of his body with a spear wearing armor. Artemis bow and arrows are better in war than a spear. Hephestus used logic to defeat Ares and Aphrodite although called god of fire he didn't even use it to defeat them but instead a net. Fishermen used net and trident to catch fish. Gladiators used net and trident to fight other gladiator armed with sword and shield.
I can also attest to that blatant fallacy, as a teenager to young woman I did archery roughly 6yrs with DD and broad back with a minimiser for support. Ancient Greeks really were misogynistic af at times, argh.
Thinking a woman had to cut off a breast is not misogynistic.