Additionally, your narrator speaks, flawless, colloquial, English. Very impressive. Well done thank you again. I can understand every word. He deserves a good award for every hour. Thank you.❤
Again, and again, you are excellent on your history. This is totally unknown to me. Thank you so much for inviting me about South America’s Navy well done thank you. God bless you guys.❤
I'm always happy when I see videos about our battleships Minas Gerais and São Paulo, I grew up listening to my grandfather's story about when he visited São Paulo in Rio de Janeiro when he was a child and was amazed by its size and that was one of the reasons he enlisted in the navy when he got older.
Well done video. William Painter's son has made lots of internet posts about his father's last voyage; may his dad and crew RIP. A similar scrap tow tragedy began in my city (Portland) - freighter named "Star K" was laid up in Oregon and scrap-towed West with a runner crew like Sao Paulo - they were warned "Star K" would sink and sure enough she sank off Wake Island - only one man survived. Scrap tug (MV Sumi Maru) saw it sink, so it was not quite as mysterious as Sao Paulo. Ocean salvage will always be dangerous.
- Rushed prep by Brazilian Navy - Slow compliance by Brazilian Navy for information to the enquiry - Witnessed movement in gun placements/casemates during the high seas event - Ballast which would naturally sit the ship lower in the sea, before any additional water ingress All these aspects compound the fact that it would only take a single freak wave during the high seas, to capsize the vessel quickly. Especially given the broadside position of Sao Paolo, last recorded. Hopefully one day the wreck will be discovered, with her resting place making able a final determination. How she rests on the seabed, will tell much about how she went down. All said. Thoughts should always be for those lost in the tragedy, and not that of an already dead ship, which found the most ironic place to rest. It's as though, she made her own decision.
15:02 Small technical clarification: a 'dead tow' will still be heavily ballasted. In addition to regular ballast, there are huge oil tanks scattered around low in the ship. If there's no plan to reuse the ship, extra ballast can be put there. Last thing they did back in the day was dumping metal & rocks low in the bilges. That's oversimplified, battleships are very heavy anyway & there's a trade-off between tow load & stability, but hope it clarifies a bit.
Sad story, of a fine ship's demise. In one respect it reminds me of the 'Grand Old Lady', HMS Warspite, who also broke her tow on the way to her graveyard, and went aground. At least, (being the lady that she was) she didn't take anyone with her. In another respect it brings the 'Waratah' to mind; the passenger liner which disappeared off the African coast - some people believe she too was hit by a rogue wave which simply rolled her over and sent her down. RIP to all those lost on both ships.
A thought occurred to me just - you said that wireless contact with Mr Painter was lost immediately after the tows broke. That suggests something pretty catastrophic happened at that point; the hawsers didn't just break, but the ship overturned or was overwhelmed in some other way, preventing him from calling them.
I am sure she went down near where the tow was slipped; the tug boat logs would likely give a good idea. Unfortunately, there is probably not much public interest in "obscure" wrecks compared to ships like the Titanic.
I had read about the loss of São Paulo years ago in Alan Villier’s excellent book Posted Missing, but this video covered it much more detail. This was well written, researched and well told. Thanks for your fine work!
was quite common at the time in most situations it wasn't really an issue as it was high enough up that the exhaust of the ship went harmlessly underneath the spotting top but when many ships transitioned to oil assitsted coal burning and then oil burning the higher temperature of the exhaust meant it went up further before being dissapated and then it became a much bigger issue that had big effects on gunnery.
One of things we've learned about a ship's greatest vulnerability when getting towed to the breakers were the propeller shafts and their lignite linings. The lignite, having decayed frin disuse will flood the stern until the ship becomes a single use submarine (much to the surprise of everyone still onboard).
November is one of the worst times to sail the North Atlantic. They should've departed in a more favorable weather season. Brazil should have scrapped and kept all that hi-grade steel; they would have made more money that way in the long run. All that being said, she was a beautiful Dreadnought. Even more so if she had been maintained. Salute Brazil and the South American Dreadnought Race!
The USS Oklahoma had a similar fate. She was finally re-floated after Pearl Harbor but it was decided that she was too old and obsolete to put to war. Her guns and other equipment were re-used on new vessels but she was sold for scrap. The same thing happened to her in a large storm on her tow back to the mainland. The crews on the tugs could barely see her but they realized that she was starting to list badly. She sank rather suddenly- she was patched together and was rather open to the weather. She started dragging her tugs backwards at about 15 knots - one tug,the Hercules, almost went down with her. Fortunately, there was no one onboard when she went down but the USS Oklahoma has never been found.
Of course Brazil had already been paid and had no intention of providing any evidence that might empower a court to require them to return the money. That's only common sense no matter now you slice it. That would be tantamount to a police officer asking YOU to provide the evidence so he could arrest you.
@@koiyujo1543 Look her up. The same thing happened to her. She was finally re-floated after Pearl Harbor but it was decided that she was too old and obsolete to put to war. Her guns and other equipment were re-used on new vessels but she was sold for scrap. The same thing happened to her in a large storm on her tow back to the mainland. The crews on the tugs could barely see her and they realized that she was listing badly. She sank rather suddenly- she was patched together and was rather open to the weather. She started dragging her tugs backwards at about 15 knots - Hercules almost went down with her. Fortunately, there was no one onboard when she went down but the USS Oklahoma has never been found.
Brazil: The second naval power of the west that just vanished. They had some pretty awesome ships built for them. Though, I never did get the single offset turrets that the Brits and Germans used. They provided limited max firepower to the front and back, but did almost nothing for a broadside. Also, they had already figured out that superfiring turrets provided a better arc of fire, as the ship already had. Why bother with the oddly placed wing turrets? Not a dunk on design, I just really want to know.
So where did it sink? The tows had to have a rough estimate of location? Has anyone found the wreck site? Seems crazy to think that with modern technology the site hasn't been discovered.
The USS Oklahoma has never been found,either. She was lost under similar circumstances. Of course, Flight 370 has never been found,either. “Modern technology” is rather over-rated.
She was a beautiful ship, but as ex-navy, that 2-tier crewing bs gives me no respect for their officers or NCOs. I cleaned many, many toilets & other crap as a Midshipman & "volunteered" to do sh*tty stuff as a SBLT, to prove to the men I wouldn't order anything I wouldn't do myself. "Leaders eat last." ⚓🇦🇺. Cheers from Canberra.
One thing ... Warship Dreadnought Battlecruiser And Battleship, a different class. Why YT contributions (today) keep mixing up each class... I can forgive British last century propagandists, i mean authors... but today? Warship means a ship of war... Battleship means a class type Super Battleship is a different one, like carrier and super carrier Thanks for talking about SA's navy's and their conflicts.... A/B/C (Argentina/Brazil/Chile)
A battleship is a battleship regardless of class. You can break them down as predreadnaught, dreadnaught, and Super dreadnaught, but they are still all battleships. The term battleship refers to a type, not a class of ship.
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Probably right, a rogue wave could have easily knocked the wooden plugs to the casemate guns out. Hull openings for casemate guns were a big design flaw in older ships - they also caused the USS San Diego to sink fast after being mined in 1918.
Literally, I worked in radio for a decade doing voiceovers and I could do this far better and no one would be mocking the announcer like everyone does on the channel….what does it gain them?😮
Entire situation was suspicious. Kangaroo court with no findings. No mention of knowing it’s last location and underwater search using modern technology. If found they could provide reasons for the possible sinking but no one’s interested. They just wanted to get rid of the ship.
okay that ending was truly shocking.. I thought it was going to be some simple sinking but that literally gave me goosebumps.
So true Brett!
Additionally, your narrator speaks, flawless, colloquial, English. Very impressive. Well done thank you again. I can understand every word. He deserves a good award for every hour. Thank you.❤
Appreciate you watching & have a great week :)
Again, and again, you are excellent on your history. This is totally unknown to me. Thank you so much for inviting me about South America’s Navy well done thank you. God bless you guys.❤
Thank you Victor!
I'm always happy when I see videos about our battleships Minas Gerais and São Paulo, I grew up listening to my grandfather's story about when he visited São Paulo in Rio de Janeiro when he was a child and was amazed by its size and that was one of the reasons he enlisted in the navy when he got older.
Another fascinating story I've never heard before. Many thanks for sharing. I guess if a Battleship can vanish, anything can...
24:00 "A battleship is adrift."
Probbaly not on most mariners' bingo cards regarding statements they hear over the radio😂
Well done video. William Painter's son has made lots of internet posts about his father's last voyage; may his dad and crew RIP. A similar scrap tow tragedy began in my city (Portland) - freighter named "Star K" was laid up in Oregon and scrap-towed West with a runner crew like Sao Paulo - they were warned "Star K" would sink and sure enough she sank off Wake Island - only one man survived. Scrap tug (MV Sumi Maru) saw it sink, so it was not quite as mysterious as Sao Paulo. Ocean salvage will always be dangerous.
- Rushed prep by Brazilian Navy
- Slow compliance by Brazilian Navy for information to the enquiry
- Witnessed movement in gun placements/casemates during the high seas event
- Ballast which would naturally sit the ship lower in the sea, before any additional water ingress
All these aspects compound the fact that it would only take a single freak wave during the high seas, to capsize the vessel quickly. Especially given the broadside position of Sao Paolo, last recorded.
Hopefully one day the wreck will be discovered, with her resting place making able a final determination. How she rests on the seabed, will tell much about how she went down. All said. Thoughts should always be for those lost in the tragedy, and not that of an already dead ship, which found the most ironic place to rest. It's as though, she made her own decision.
A very drown to earth statement
Appreciate you watching & have a great weekend :)
15:02 Small technical clarification: a 'dead tow' will still be heavily ballasted. In addition to regular ballast, there are huge oil tanks scattered around low in the ship. If there's no plan to reuse the ship, extra ballast can be put there.
Last thing they did back in the day was dumping metal & rocks low in the bilges. That's oversimplified, battleships are very heavy anyway & there's a trade-off between tow load & stability, but hope it clarifies a bit.
She was coal fired.
Sad story, of a fine ship's demise. In one respect it reminds me of the 'Grand Old Lady', HMS Warspite, who also broke her tow on the way to her graveyard, and went aground. At least, (being the lady that she was) she didn't take anyone with her. In another respect it brings the 'Waratah' to mind; the passenger liner which disappeared off the African coast - some people believe she too was hit by a rogue wave which simply rolled her over and sent her down. RIP to all those lost on both ships.
A thought occurred to me just - you said that wireless contact with Mr Painter was lost immediately after the tows broke. That suggests something pretty catastrophic happened at that point; the hawsers didn't just break, but the ship overturned or was overwhelmed in some other way, preventing him from calling them.
Thank you very much HIDDEN HISTORY.Interesting story.
Very sad ending. Hopefully some day, her final resting spot can be determined and she and her crew can be properly honored. ^v^
I am sure she went down near where the tow was slipped; the tug boat logs would likely give a good idea. Unfortunately, there is probably not much public interest in "obscure" wrecks compared to ships like the Titanic.
I had read about the loss of São Paulo years ago in Alan Villier’s excellent book Posted Missing, but this video covered it much more detail. This was well written, researched and well told. Thanks for your fine work!
Very interesting video!
That crazy design of having the spotting top after the fore funnel, great for roasting the crew up there!
was quite common at the time in most situations it wasn't really an issue as it was high enough up that the exhaust of the ship went harmlessly underneath the spotting top but when many ships transitioned to oil assitsted coal burning and then oil burning the higher temperature of the exhaust meant it went up further before being dissapated and then it became a much bigger issue that had big effects on gunnery.
I guess the crew came off-watch fully kippered...
One of things we've learned about a ship's greatest vulnerability when getting towed to the breakers were the propeller shafts and their lignite linings. The lignite, having decayed frin disuse will flood the stern until the ship becomes a single use submarine (much to the surprise of everyone still onboard).
November is one of the worst times to sail the North Atlantic. They should've departed in a more favorable weather season. Brazil should have scrapped and kept all that hi-grade steel; they would have made more money that way in the long run. All that being said, she was a beautiful Dreadnought. Even more so if she had been maintained. Salute Brazil and the South American Dreadnought Race!
The USS Oklahoma had a similar fate.
She was finally re-floated after Pearl Harbor but it was decided that she was too old and obsolete to put to war.
Her guns and other equipment were re-used on new vessels but
she was sold for scrap.
The same thing happened to her in a large storm on her tow back to the mainland.
The crews on the tugs could barely see her but they realized that she was starting to list badly.
She sank rather suddenly-
she was patched together and was rather open to the weather.
She started dragging her tugs backwards at about 15 knots -
one tug,the Hercules,
almost went down with her.
Fortunately,
there was no one onboard when she went down but the
USS Oklahoma has never been found.
Interesting story, but such a sad ending for this ship.
Guess that the old girl didn't want to go to the breakers yard.
Thanks I Love History 😊
Of course Brazil had already been paid and had no intention of providing any evidence that might empower a court to require them to return the money. That's only common sense no matter now you slice it. That would be tantamount to a police officer asking YOU to provide the evidence so he could arrest you.
Brazilian nuts are hard to... crack
A little bit of salsa in to the maritime mix of history and thanks again Sir. 🇬🇧👍⚓️
I’m actually eating salsa right now 😂😂
@@HiddenHistoryYT 😂😂😂⚓️magic, enjoy
Sometimes bad things happen even with a good plan. Brave men. Thanks
We still don't know the final resting place of USS Oklahoma, and no one has really looked for her, either.
wait really? why?
@@koiyujo1543
Look her up.
The same thing happened to her.
She was finally re-floated after Pearl Harbor but it was decided that she was too old and obsolete to put to war.
Her guns and other equipment were re-used on new vessels but
she was sold for scrap.
The same thing happened to her in a large storm on her tow back to the mainland.
The crews on the tugs could barely see her and they realized that she was listing badly.
She sank rather suddenly-
she was patched together and was rather open to the weather.
She started dragging her tugs backwards at about 15 knots -
Hercules almost went down with her.
Fortunately,
there was no one onboard when she went down but the
USS Oklahoma has never been found.
Brazil: The second naval power of the west that just vanished. They had some pretty awesome ships built for them. Though, I never did get the single offset turrets that the Brits and Germans used. They provided limited max firepower to the front and back, but did almost nothing for a broadside. Also, they had already figured out that superfiring turrets provided a better arc of fire, as the ship already had. Why bother with the oddly placed wing turrets? Not a dunk on design, I just really want to know.
There must be a...Brazilian reason why. 😂
IMHO a humiliating end to a humiliating life.
HOW SAD
I wouldn't of tried to tow that whole thing back to England.
So where did it sink? The tows had to have a rough estimate of location? Has anyone found the wreck site? Seems crazy to think that with modern technology the site hasn't been discovered.
Sounds like a job for Bob Ballard 🤔
The USS Oklahoma has never been found,either.
She was lost under similar circumstances.
Of course,
Flight 370 has never been found,either.
“Modern technology” is
rather over-rated.
The ships are more equivalent to Cruisers than Battleships of the period.
Warning - there is no mystery here.
She was a beautiful ship, but as ex-navy, that 2-tier crewing bs gives me no respect for their officers or NCOs. I cleaned many, many toilets & other crap as a Midshipman & "volunteered" to do sh*tty stuff as a SBLT, to prove to the men I wouldn't order anything I wouldn't do myself. "Leaders eat last." ⚓🇦🇺. Cheers from Canberra.
Many an unpopular sailor abord fishing trawlers (our landlord included) in Japan have mysteriously been lost at sea...
One thing ...
Warship
Dreadnought
Battlecruiser
And Battleship, a different class.
Why YT contributions (today) keep mixing up each class... I can forgive British last century propagandists, i mean authors... but today?
Warship means a ship of war...
Battleship means a class type
Super Battleship is a different one, like carrier and super carrier
Thanks for talking about SA's navy's and their conflicts.... A/B/C (Argentina/Brazil/Chile)
A battleship is a battleship regardless of class. You can break them down as predreadnaught, dreadnaught, and Super dreadnaught, but they are still all battleships.
The term battleship refers to a type, not a class of ship.
I really want to watch this video but I can’t deal with listening to a terrible AI narrator.
You could try closed captioning
It repeats itself at one point as well
There was a destroyer that disappeared asxvbms reappeared. The vessel's name was the U.S.S. Eldridge.
I'm hoping this is a joke.
@@mikhailiagacesa3406
Asxvbms?
Given their username…
probably not.
Wow, AI does a really bad job of pronouncing Portuguese.
Who really cares pathetic thing to cry abt
misleading title…nothing mysterious about the situation, it happened multiple times before and after to ships bigger and smaller than it
Where the hell is Greenic? Do you mean Greenwich?
He said Greenock. It's on the Clyde and was a major shipbuilding town.
@@rjmun580 thanks, didn't know that.
It was subsequently determined that all blame for the vessel's loss should be attributed to Donald Trump.🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 good one! Thanks!😅
Are you sure?!
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🙋🏾♂️.
It was attested by numerous experts all over the world.
Orange Glow in the morning... sailors take Warning ⚠️ 🤣 ↘️
What's with all the revolts in Brazil?
Caffeine jitters?
@@chezsnailez They are a big coffee supplier.
I believe they've been unstable at the top since they deposed the Imperial family and had the rubber industry stolen out from under them by the UK.
Socialism/fascism runs deep in the culture.
It is basically a National Sport...
Aliens
Tow lines snapped in a storm and it sank. Thats all folks
Insurance job?
4 people dead is not ‘minimal violence.’
Actually is...considering
repeat ans repeat again if u need to fill time. sheesh
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Lengths of cable are measured in feet or meters, not fathoms. Fathom is a measurement of depth that pertains to water.
Not so unfortunately ship's cable is in fathoms
@@keithrimmer3 Thanks, in my reading of things nautical I never came across that, it's a good day when one learns something new.
@@johnbarnes6832 Same here John, quite surprising. Now I'll have to find out where fathom comes from!
@@jacksprat9172 fathom about 6 feet is the width of hands out streached
. Thus grab a rope and streach arms wide and thats a fathom
@@jeffbybee5207that's pretty easy to...fathom
a thought. she probabley went on her beams end and got hit with a rouge wave.
Probably right, a rogue wave could have easily knocked the wooden plugs to the casemate guns out. Hull openings for casemate guns were a big design flaw in older ships - they also caused the USS San Diego to sink fast after being mined in 1918.
The last 10min you repeat yourself a few times, repeating the official statements by Mr Painter, the captains on the tugs
Get a real voice and do proper research.
Yes
Literally, I worked in radio for a decade doing voiceovers and I could do this far better and no one would be mocking the announcer like everyone does on the channel….what does it gain them?😮
@@brianjones7660it gets your comments for the algorithm 😂😂
You repeat yourself - Dork !
Entire situation was suspicious. Kangaroo court with no findings. No mention of knowing it’s last location and underwater search using modern technology. If found they could provide reasons for the possible sinking but no one’s interested. They just wanted to get rid of the ship.
Thanks for watching and have a great week :)
A lot of repetitious narrative at the end. An interesting story, but it could have been told in half the time. I'd mark this as "Click Bait".
I sink slow too
Were they even capable to navigate?
Within sight of land...