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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ย. 2024
- Boros might be one of the weakest color combinations we have in the EDH format. How could that be fixed? Or what does it need? I have found some fan made commanders that I think have a good design.
I think cEDH could benefit if there was a Tier 1 Boros commander. That would give us more variety in this format.
Background music in the video: Cold rise - from Gunnar olsen • Cold Rise - Gunnar Olsen
Simic just got freaking Birthing Pod in the command zone. Sunforger on a body or something silly like that Myriad anthem is definitely what Boros could use.
Now I am actually thinking about how to make a sunforger deck with the partner commanders ... damit.
Sunforger combo exists. White can search pretty good for eqipments, so finding it wouldn't be hard.
Sundial of the Infinite - Mistveil Plains - Final Fortune/Chance for Glory.
Cast Enlighted Tutor to find Sundial of the Infinite.
Cast Tithe to find Mistveil Plains (or crack any Fetchland that can seach for Plains)
Sunforger finds the extra turns.
The combo is very expandable, for example Angel's Grace and Deserted Temple can be used as a replacement for Sundial - or you go for straight up Platinum Angel.
The only problem would be the mana.
I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT TITHE AND MISTVEIL PLAINS! damit now you are going to make me actually put this together ...
I still see a lot of problems. The mana needed to get this going is quite heavy. That is my biggest concern. And one other really important thing. Just because it works doesn't mean you should do it. Sure it works. But is it good? Does it gain anything other decks don't have? I don't think so currently. Sunforger is a decent card. Put it on any commander and you could kill your opponents with commander damage.
But mega slow and mega mana demanding combos are, in my opinion. Weak.
I hope there are more things I have missed then Tithe.
That was one of the issues that I already pointed out, but the casting can be cheaper if you have cards like Puresteel Paladin and Kazuul's Toll Collector.
Does it gain anything? It's a toolbox, nothing more and nothing less. So yes, in a way it does give you access to your whole deck.
The main plan would certainly be commander damage with Akiri.
Is MLD good enough for CEDH? Sunforger can find Boros Charm and Teferi's Protection in case of an Armageddon.
You are starting to convince me to put it inside this deck. Or test it I might say. I don't think I have to change anything to my current list either. I guess I would look at sunforger as a tutor for paradox engine.
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/divergent-pst-with-ta/#c3451819
I see the Divergent combo ;)
Not a true Boros deck, but it looks pretty nice.
Can I have your opinions to these combos?:
Enduring Renewal - Priest of Urabrask - sac outlet or something like Enduring renewal - any one drop - Phyrexian Altar
Kiki-jiki in any form.
Godo (/Aurelia) - Helm of the Host.
Karmic Guide - Reveillark
- any sac outlet.
Rest in Peace - Helm of Obedience
After years of asking wizards to print better boros commanders I was so disappointed with the last Ravnica set. They print busted legendaries all the time and they always play super safe and aggro on boros. Boros could:
Exile cards from the top of the library from an opponent and play them like grenzo and etali do
Generate enormous amounts of mana like Neheb does
Have powerful eggs effects like srcap mastery, roar of reclamation, second sunrise.
Have blink synergies and enter the battlefield stuff.
It could have small creatures strategies.
It could have a Zada effect for Auras.
Stax effects.
The design space is enourmous, but the will to execute something different from previous aggro designs is non existent.
Yes, the designspace is very underutilized here.
I appreciate you delving into this subject. Im gonna put a few thoughts out here without trying to write a book cause I can write a ton on the subject. Im not a Cedh player but I do player Boros in some fairly powerful metas, one of which is a full power Niv mizzet deck as shown, but I have spent time thinking about what it would take to get boros into Cedh. Right now the most powerful combo in Boros is either going to be Aurelia/Godo + Helm or Neheb/Feast & Famine + Aggravated Assault, and finally the one I like the least would be zealous conscripts and felidar soverign. I have resolved a Godo Helm in the late turns against some very good decks while they spent 8-10 turns countering everyone elses win combo. Powerful, but so mana intense and easy to disrupt. Aggravated Assault combo is similar, expensive mana wise to get all the pieces into play, and you are talking about 2 cards from the 99, also easy to disrupt, and i also hate that aggravated assault actaully isnt that good if you are not using it as part of the combo. The zealous conscript combo, harder to disrupt but hard to guarantee since boros doesnt have unconditional tutors. And as a Bonus Ive tried the sunforger turns loop on my channel, it has many problems, requires tons of mana, is easy to disrupt, if disrupted you straight up lose the game, and is just plain difficult to execute infinitely. None of these are on par with what the top Cedh decks do for win conditions at this moment in time.
Next looking at the User Created Cards, I really liek the myriad commander. Ive long thought that they just need a mechanic where dealing damage to 1 player means dealing damage to all players, similar to saskia. But Myriad also builds in some card advantage in a Boros kind of way. Like this idea. Also like the sunforger on a creature idea. Youd be able to play a really hard control game with a deck of like 40 instants, and stop opponents combos while assembling your own win condition. Would love to see that one get made. And finally one that ive been thinking about, if they wanted to make a boros hatebear commander I think if you put strangehold and grandabolisher on a 2 mana 2/2 and I think you've got something that could work. Or you up the CMC a little bit, and just make it the hardest core hatebear anyone has ever seen, with a cant tutor ability, cant play additional lands, and cant draw additional cards type of thing. Make everyone play a fair game of magic and I think that Boros now has a chance.
Anyway when you look at most Cedh decks they all have some unfair combo that they execute. Boros just needs one of these, or a way to stop other unfair combos reliably and I think it will be able to compete in the space. As it stands right now, trying to do 120 damage in a game that might only go 5 turns (or less) just isnt really feasible. The cards that do you allow you to punch out 120 damage are generally at the 5-7 CMC parts of the curve which just get blown out by counterspells and removal. Great for regular commander and underrated by most, but doesnt hold up well in the Cedh world where many decks have a win built around commander +1 card. Also Najeela is probably the most aggressive commander ever printed (though I question wether to call it aggro, or just creature based combo) so its the type of thing where I dont think they would want to print anything faster than that.
Anyways just a few thoughts Ive had on the subject after years of doing boros content. Hit me up if youd liek to discuss more.
Well said. I think I have to take a look at your sunforger gameplay. One other person did discuse that loop in the commentary here. Just like you said, it cost a bit tooooo muuuccchhh mana. But I am work and can't write much more then this ATM.
I think it is important they keep flawor of what red and with is. and also what Boros is. I think equipment is down the line. Weponisez military. And the commander like Godo is a perfect design in my oppinion. A commander that can tutor for an equipment.
In general red and with lack tutors I would say.
Blue: Tutors artifacts really easy.
Black: Tutors everything, the color for finding your heats desire.
Green: tutors for creatures.
When the Edh community is gathering minds like this to solve an entire faction pairing of the color pie because it lags so much behind the others in the competitive scene.... you know there’s a problem that needs addressing lol.
Love both your channels btw. I think the myriad commander was amazing design. Similarly to yuriko she wasn’t exactly a combo piece per se but she has so much built in synergy and card advantage it could still be competitive and is extremely flavorful. Card design win 10/10. Could be 1 mana less tho imo
I think it would be very much in flavor for Boros to be the policing force on said unfair combos. Also what arises from your observations would be need for effects and abilities that give discounts for those mana intensive situations. Like at least a reliable effect that removes equip costs.
Yea, I am currently playing an incomplete Aurelia Infinite Combat Steps combo deck (which main focus is on small creatures and artefacts) and it is already winning quite often, even though quite a lot of tutors and protection spells are missing.
Though I am not so sure about the level of my playgroup. I would guess upper mid levels of casual deck powers is the average.
So my estemate is that a fully build Aurelia Combo deck will probably end up in the top levels of casual decks and might win a few more competitive matches.
Damn, that Myriad Commander needs to be a thing. It looks awesome. Low CMC matters could actually be a really cool idea for C19
I hope so too. I think Myriad is what aggro would need to become valid. I don't think that will do it alone for Boros. But I think it is a step in the right design direction.
+ it's a rebel THE best creature type ... now I really want Ria to be a real card
I really like them. Boros is one of my favourite Dual Colors and it always breaks my heart that there isn't a good commander for it. All of them feel underwhelming and more suited for 99 in a tricolour deck with Boros in it.
I love that you have taken on this challenge. This is awesome!
Boros is great if you add blue for narset.
god i wish ria ivor was real that card looks so much fun even outside of cedh. and i would like to see your attemp at a cedh boros deck. the closest thing i ever got was firesong and sunspeaker storm like thing that just felt weird
That card is kinda ... almost ... good. But it cost too much mana for a commander that only lightning bolts. That is probobly the strongest Boros commander we currently have ... :(
Love your theory crafting and commenting on hypothetical commanders. Just something new is always refreshing.
Arthos definitely seems much more in tune with something Wizards would make; especially with the inclusion of Vannifar as of recent. Would definitely be a deck I wouldnt mind messing around with.
Loving this channel, great content
These were Boros legends I came up with around conspiracy 2.
RW
Dwarf Scout
*Opponents can't search their libraries or take extra turns.
*When [Name] enters the battlefield, if you control less lands than an opponent you may search your library for a land card and put it onto the battlefield.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control less lands than an opponent you may search your library for a land card and put it into your hand.
2/2
Flavor-wise, Stranglehold because you're fighting in underground tunnels. Land ramp/tutor along the lines of Knight of the White Orchid/Tithe/Land Tax with lifted type restrictions for power.
I feel the Stranglehold commander could also work with the recruiter theme.
1RW
Human Adviser
*Opponents can't search their libraries or take extra turns.
* When [Name] enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a creature with power or toughness 2 or less and put it into your hand.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control less creatures than an opponent you may search your library for a creature with power or toughness 2 or less and put it into your hand.
2/2
3 CMC to fit with the other recruiter cards. Stranglehold because the legend is recruiting for a Siege. The recruiter only gets more value (past the initial ETB) if their rival has a bigger army.
You could think of a commander in which it will level your opponents to your own speed.
1WR
Legendary Creature
Players can only cast spells only any time they could cast a sorcery.
Spells targeting (this creature) cost 2 more to cast. (tax feel)
Wow Kassim is practically identical to Bell Borca from Commander Legends!
Yeap. Happy they made it.
I really like that Myriad commander. Every problem you have with boros is the same problem in normal edh. Personally my favorite is Chuck (Brion Stotum). Make an enormous creature and fling them.
Really interesting video. I’ve always been Leary of building a Boros EDH Deck. Maybe not so much now.
You might want to consider Depala, Pilot Exemplar. She's a boros infinite mana wincon in the command zone:
With infinite mana, cast Depala, tap her and pay a lot of mana to find Mirror Entity, Fleetwheel Cruiser, Ovalchase Dragster and Changeling Berserker. Cast those cards and pump them with Mirror Entity and swing for the win (provided at least one opponent does not have a blocker for Changeling Berserker).
EDIT: She can also function as a pseudo card draw engine if you put some dwarfs/vehicles in your deck, but those are very limited and bad. Maybe you can make an artifact deck with her that has some value vehicles as well, but again her card drawing capabilities are not strong enough.
You are correct one everything. Both that she is valid and should work. She has a card drawing ability and a wincon. But the cadrs she needs don't exist. Just like you said. the dwarfs/vehicles that exist, just like you said, are bad. This could change in the futore! She has potential. She is a good card design.
good luck with making infinite mana in boros
What are your thoughts on land destruction as a component of fixing the Boros problem? Draws a lot of hate - but can it get there?
I have tested that strategy several times. It doesn't really work. Most cEDH decks can play their deck one a really low amount of lands. It's good vs deck that wanna ramp up to huge spells (casual). Most cEDH decks don't do that. They simply don't care you blow up their lands.
But I do play boil and Tsunami when too many are playing heavy island blue. But that isn't a strategy, more adding cards I know is going to be effective.
I like this a lot! Please find more custom cards
Feather The Redeemed solves this problem I believe.
The myriad commander might have some merit to it when it comes to the beatdown strategy. You could sundial the infinite the tokens onto the board permanently and set up multiple hatebears for multiple players. Imagine cheating in an iona and making 3 copies of her or to a lesser extent something like eidolon of great revels. In cEdh you'd be paying 1 mana to ponder and take 6 damage. There'd need to be ways to protect the pieces but I don't think it's totally impossible in boros colors, I've just never tried.
Hold on! This is kinda legit. It's not impossible for withered to tutor 1 artifact. You don't win instantly but you will swarm pretty fast. And just like you said you will have a lot of heatbears one the table.
This might be a reason they don't wanna print more Myriad. Not becous it is broken in cEDH (becous this isen't). But Casual players might consider it Toxic cancer.
I like it.
@@cedhtv I don't think it'd be toxic cancer in casual. Most of the casual tables I play at run 4-5 board wipes a deck so the odds someone doesn't have one is beyond impossible. Boros really does need something like "hatebears get myraid" or better ways to swarm/aggro. Even at casual tables all you got is helm of the host with aurelia. Like oh fucking boy, a 15+ mana combo that is kinda color specific and requires keeping the pieces on the board for more than a round. At least with my concept you can stop it EASILY if you remove sundial. Give us a Myriad boros commander in c19. For the sake of fucking god.
The armored skeptic outro song in the intro of the video. Interesting.
It's not his song. The song is called Cold rise and was made by Gunnar Olsen. You can find it if you go to your channel. YOURS. Then to create. Then search for Cold rise. Or just search for cold rise on youtube and you can find it.
But I believe the intro to armored media is his own music. After his little joke about what he is going to talk about, there is a space flight. and that song I think he made himself.
@@cedhtv Ah interesting, that's I know it from so I figured it would be his. Thanks.
I thought so too until I started exploring what youtube helps you with, as a content creator. There is a lot of free music you can use. I don't know the deal is or anything.
Welp with feather this deck could he crazy good
Where did you find them?
I want to try some funny ones
Great video!
So any thoughts now that Feather is out?
Not good enough. She can draw cards but that won't be enough I believe.
The issue isn't Boros but rather colors in general. The more colors you have access to, the better your card quality is because of how good the land base is in cedh it isn't a drawback. Rather any mono or two color decks are leaning more towards the power level of the commander itself to form a deck and Boros has no general that meets that requirement.
very informative. good job
But Miracles isn't the only tier 1 Legacy deck. It's not even the best deck. Unless you're referring to Miracles pre-Top ban.
I am referring to the pre-top ban.
Do you think Teshar can be played as a cEDH commander?
No. I don't think so. I have played against her a few times and I am not that impressed. Her combo is to slow. I think she could be something inside the 99 however, depending on your deck.
Arthos isn't really a boros card, and neither really is sunforger.
True its not typical what people think about when they think about Boros. Still, sunforger was printed when Boros was created. And comes from the Boros guild. In the end, sunforger is Boros.
Isn't it?
White can search for very specific things, and red can cheat speed and mana alike, as recently shown with Electrodominance.
While the very specific thing in Sunforger's case isn't in-pie for White, it is something about which Red does care about in some way. And the CMC 4 or less part is where White comes into the very specific thing.
Why not just play Naya instead?...
Gets thrown out the window of a 10 floor building :v *
No really, seriously, why not simply playing naya instead?
Why not play Tymna thrasios or Najeela instead? How EDH commander kinda should be balanced is the fewer color the commander gives. The better commander it should be. So a Boros commander should be better than A naya commander. And a Naya commander should be better then Tymna thrasios. Or give something that those two don't have. There is a tiny problem. Whatever combo or deck you could think of. The commander of choice should almost all the time be, Tymna.
So I believe there could be a benefit to the format if there were more dual commander options that could play at the same level as Tymna. Just like how gitrog can. Gitrog is offering something Tymna doesn't. Boros need a commander that offers something Tymna doesn't. Naya is struggling too btw.
@@cedhtv i see your point now! Thank you for breaking it down for me... am kind of new to EDH, a few months...
As a former boros player am no stranger to the issues you describe:
1) i always did someone's else dirty job only to be killed last ( i was killed last because i was the least threat in the long run)...
2) playing an aggro deck that gradually kills makes u enemies both in the table and in real life...
(people really dislike getting focused)...
So i decided... what about if i combined the agressiveness and control aspects of boros with green heavy ramp in a deck that kills one hit in one turn? :v
So i switched to zacama as a commander...
What? U want to know more about my thought process? :v
Glad you ask! :v
My current deck revolves along the following:
1) cards that double my power, give me haste, give me extra battle phases and make me unblockable, like xenagos or rogue passage...
2) heavy card draw most based on my creature's power ( a life legacy etc...) pump your creatures with xenagos then draw 18 cards in main phase 2 :v
3)some control and protection in the form of:
Dragonlord dromoka
Archon of valor
Spellbreaker behemoth
Rhytmn of the wild
Grand abolisher
Blind obedience
Authority of the consuls
Smothering tithes
Dualcaster mage
Shalai
Eldrazis displacer
Archangel avacyn
Cause screw blue and their negations and white's board wipes :v
4) some searchers:
(Mostly brings xenagos or my negation deniers)
Thalias lancers
Gamble
Eldamri's call
Tooth and nail
Open the armory
Plea for guidance
Fauna shaman
Knight of the reliquary
4)and ramping... a lot of ramping :v
Some mana doublers like nikya of the old ways and dictate of karametra...
And well now things been faring way better in my table now...
No more angry people from poking them too much, and now am a silent potential threath :v
But i imagine that at higher more competitive level i would get torn apart xD
And thanks again...
4:09
i thought i was here to get solution! dont tell me its not gonna fix it!
All this video does is make me sad those cards aren't real!! Come on WOTC get on the ball!!
epic edm
Very interesting thank you!
What about boros with Depala? tappedout.net/mtg-decks/going-off-the-rails/
Can we see more experimental commander/deck options? That are not necessary t1
This boros review was fun
The deck you linked is correct. But its not optimal. Or it might be as optimal Dapala could do it. But I would not bring that deck to a GP or my local tournament becous, there is better. However. That deck could get stronger if more dwarfs or vechiels (that would be good in the cEDH meta) got printed.
White is the worst color for card advantage. Outside of Hatebears and Removal, there is no real fast power. Either they are almost useless in multiplayer cmd (fast none-hatebear weenies) or too slow (enchantments, boardwipes). Boros is too slow and has little synergy. It is still outmatched by the other colors/color combinations.
This is adult wishmaking 😂😍
ban paradox engine and doomsday, and many more commanders will become stronger/more viable
I think you need to ban food chain and hulk too. Then you need to ban scepter and reversal. Maybe need to ban razaketh too. And going down that road will only lead to a baning warpath I belive.
@@cedhtv well...if so then ban. There must be some criteria for banning the cards out of format...why are the cards banned in the first place? Because the cards are too strong? Or because the whole format will start to orbit around four of five cards and in that manner will choke the diversity out of the format? I am not an expert, but one can agree that having three or four strategies in cedh (edh) is boring. It is killing the flavor of the format a bit...
You and I are starting to touch a subject I have been thinking about doing a video on. This is something a lot of players are talking about. Not Paradox and hulk but Tymna. Tymna is kinda the thing that is destroying all other commanders. Pick any combo or gameplan (except commander orientated combos such as Gitrogs combo) and Tymna can do it. And even do it better. Tymna is close to being so good. That everyone should just play Tymna. People consider her Ban worthy because of this.
I don't.
Here me out.
Tymna is not going to become more broken. Whatever card Wizard print will probably be interesting for Tymna. But it is not going to increase her power level any furtherer. Every card that comes out these days will just be spicy alternatives for what she already has. Meaning it is going to come down to player preferences about witch cool cards to pick for each individual player.
But these cards will accidentally make a dual or mono-color commander broken. Or closer to broken. Captain sisay and Paradox engine is a good example. Paradox engine is good for Tymna, she and Thrasios have the PST deck from that thing. But it is doing more for Sisay. And arcum dagson.
This means that over time we will have more broken commanders playing at the same power level up together with Tymna. In the future. In my opinion, the format is quite healthy. There are more commanders then Tymna up there running around.
What I am trying to say is this I guess. Instead of banning what is broken. Let's try and make everything equaly broken. And I think that will happen eventually by accident because wizard of the coast doesn't really think about what cards they accidentally print.
WOW. Sorry, this turned out to be a long post. Sorry. I didn't mean to throw everything out like this. I guess this automatically became a manuscript for what I had in my mind. Take it as a spoiler.
Winota is pretty good
Definitely. she didn't exist when I made this video the. Happy she came.
*SULTIA!* *SULTIA!* *SULTIA!* *SULTIA!* *SULTIA!* *SULTIA!* *SULTIA!* *SULTIA!* *SULTIA!* *SULTIA!* *SULTIA!* *SULTIA!*
only firesong was fun to build around (maybe depala) boros is just boring and weak T_T
Depala has a lot of things going for her, I mean that is a card drawing ability. Except there aren't any dwarfs. I guess there will be more in the future. But she needs a lot of cards that don't exist to get somewhere.