National Cathedral Lecture - Misquoting Jesus
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2014
- On Feb. 6, 2007, Bart gave a lecture at The Cathedral College of Washington National Cathedral on "Misquoting Jesus" an exploration of how scribes changed the bible and possible reasons why. Bart questions the substantial integrity of the transmission of the New Testament manuscripts. Some orthodox scribes in the early church and later corrupted the New Testament to sustain and fortify their own theology.
Video discussed on Bart Ehrman's Foundation Blog: ehrmanblog.org/?p=7630
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.
Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and The Cathedral College of Washington. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting and/or duplication of this video without express and written permission from Bart D. Ehrman and The Cathedral College of Washington are strictly prohibited.
![จังหวะนี้ - เม้ก อภิสิทธิ์ [ Official MV ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4gQRZCkRyiU/mqdefault.jpg)
I've learned more about the Bible from this agnostic than I have from any professed Christian teacher.
I feel you, man.
Such great scholarly research we are afforded by your studies, and to pass them on to the general public. In Seminary most pastors are taught this, but it never reaches the ears of the sheep! Thank you Dr Ehrman.
I love you Bart but if i hear about the armadillo grill one more time...
If his students watched these YT presentations he'd be buying a lot of suppers!
The Armadillo Grill isn’t that expensive. It’s tasty, though.
@@MetaphorUB Ah! Were you treated?
@@soslothful Haha no, I haven’t had the honor. I just live in Chapel Hill and love trying all the good food we have here, you know, when it’s not pandemicking.
@@MetaphorUB Ah. Well, were his students watching these videos, he'd be buying a lot of dinners.
Keep going Professor Ehrman...until everyone in the World hears this lecture - everyone.
Dr. Bart D. Earhman, is heaven sent. I hope he sticks around forever. He is an incredible source of inspiration, knowledge, integrity and humor, the very definition of a human being.
I have six books and 72 recorded lectures by Professor Ehrman. Still, I find it a valuable exercise to read refutations, so suggest reading, "Misquoting The Truth."
@@soslothful What Ehrman says is irrefutable. No other scholar is more scholarly than him. He simply steamrolls all of his opponents on every debate.
@@yunoewig3095 I generally agree, still it may be instructive ti read what refutations one's opponents have to offer.
@@soslothful Agree. I just got the PDF of the book you mentioned, and I’ll give it a read (after I finish Bart’s lecture on the Book of Revelation…)
@@yunoewig3095 I suspect you are familiar with Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens. Books in refutation: "A Letter From A Christian Citizen" refuting Harris and "The Real Face Of Atheism" refuting mainly Hitchens. The latter claims more than it delivers and its author, Ravi Zacharias, had an unfortunate fall. This is not an ad hominem but a caution. Even a well educated, very well spoken evangelical battles weaknesses that we all do.
Are you familiar with The Teaching Company? Primary source for Dr. Ehrman's recorded lectures as well as hundreds of other teachers on near any subject.
This sure does give a new meaning to the phrase “the gospel truth,” doesn’t it?? Fascinating. None of this was covered in my catholic school upbringing, btw.
Huge Bart Ehrman fan.
I've see almost all of his lectures, interviews, etc. This one is the best by far. Shame on all seminaries, especially the batshit crazy evangelical institutions (funny how so many of these are the U.S. South -??), to not have Dr. Ehrman lecture onsite or at least show his lectures.
There is obviously a difference between a pastor who attends seminary to " learn how to preach" vs. an academic scholar who studies the "word of god" with critical thinking!!
partly agreed. we also have seminaries teaching the critical theology in south-.
@@user-hb4hm7pr1b I attended a southern seminary decades ago, and I can confirm that critical approaches to biblical texts were taught there. But their basic thrust was to put together a unified concept of Jesus rather than to open themselves to and recognize the multiple versions of Jesus that emerge from the various texts that constitute the New Testament. Ehrman, as an atheist, doesn't share that compulsion to produce a unified image of Jesus; rather, he reveals the variety of often contradictory Jesuses that coexist within and among those texts.
Christians need to know this stuff. this is why I am not opposed to studying the bible in schools. an understanding of who wrote the bible and why creates more atheists than any other process.
Your suggestion is good, but will the bible be taught from a secular or a religious viewpoint? And who will set the standard?
Where I grew up, school teach ALL religion along side each other as a societal study subject even when >90% of the country practice one religion. Still, they
beautify all the religion and don't mention the option of not holding a religion at all.
Learning about the history of the bible has made me less religious. Also, learning about contradictions in the bible.
Also, learning about how completely unrational it's claims are.
Also, learning about the history of the time it was in.
Basically just learning the truth of things.
Ivan Ruiz b
@@ivanruiz4948 please share any contradiction that you found in the Bible
I really enjoyed reading Misquoting Jesus. I think it was one of your better books.
There is an interesting refutation, "Misquoting The Truth" worth reading for a contrasting position.
I'm glad the popularity of The Davinci Code maybe gave Bart this larger audience. What he speaks on is one of my favorite subjects, literary intention or whatever of religious texts.
Such a good teacher. Thank you.
That venue is run with military precision watch how smooth the sign language translaters relieve each other with serious precision
99% of true believers in whatever pet doctrine aren't going to challenge their core beliefs with listening to or reading Ehrman. They don't want to know how the sausage is made. "I know what I believe so don't try to confuse me". Anyway, I love what he does.
Absolutely fascinating and must have required some real painstaking research. Great effort by all concerned.
Its great that so many people are finally waking up to the truth . Thank you Bart for giving it to them
I'd really like to know his views as to why these new testament letters were so popular in the ancient world
bart: "parablepsis"
sign language: ........
bart: "homoioteleuton"
sign language: god dammit
I noticed that, too. Poor gal didn't know what to do. That was pretty funny.
my moms an interpreter she get a kick outta this
Great talk.
The signer gave up trying to spell out "parablepsis by homoeteleuton"
Hahahahahahaa! Well played!
If Christianity is viewed as a historical document, the important thing is to obtain a completely reliable report of what the Christian doctrine really is. If the inquiring subject were infinitely interested in his relation to this truth, he would here despair at once, because nothing is easier to perceive than this, that with regard to the historical the greatest certainty is only an approximation, and an approximation is too little to build his happiness on and is so unlike an eternal happiness that no result can ensue. Since the inquiring subject is merely historically interested he takes the work in hand, the enormous studies, to which he himself makes new contributions until his seventieth year. A fortnight before his death he is looking forward to a new publication that will shed light upon the entire aspect of the discussion. Such an objective state of mind is an epigram on the restlessness of the infinitely interested subject, who must indeed have an answer to such a question, which pertains to the decision about his eternal happiness, and who in any case would not at any price dare to forego his infinite interest until the very last moment. When the truth of Christianity is asked about historically, or what is not Christian truth, Holy Scripture immediately presents itself as a crucial document. Therefore, the historical point of view focuses first on the Bible.
Soren Kierkegaard, Concluding Unscientific Postscript, Hong translation p. 23
If I were a member of bible society in college, I'd Pay money to invite Bart Ehrman and give lecture or talk on Misquoting Jesus to our christians audience as many don't know much about the bible in its depth !
Jalal Ahmad The college wouldn't allow him, to visit, as he might enlighten the students to the truth.
What I like most is the VENUE - And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. Thank you Bart!!!👍🏾✌🏾
Is there a way for us that are into the Biblical History to get access to these older manuscripts to see the differences of the newer manuscripts/today's Bibles, to help and show those who don't believe the Bible's inerrant? Thank you Bart and/or whomever.
What an eye opener!
It is impossible to use Reason and Faith at the same time. You either think or just follow instructions.
Blindly believing something unproven to be true. Faith. Have faith. You weren't healed because you lack enough faith was told to my blind from birth friend back in the 1970's . I'll never forget when people said that to her.
A dear childhood friend (I'm talking kindergarten to 12th grade) was genuinely very distressed because I would be going to Hell. I told him not to worry about it. How sad.
What religious people call " Faith " is just wishful thinking. You put faith in something you trust from experience. You put faith in road maps and GPS. Or that your car will start because you've kept up the maintenance. Faith without reason is insanity.
I can and have been doing it for years.
the Mark 16:9-20 issue is easily refuted with a simple search into early church history.
Where?
I assume you are not such an eminent Bible scholar as this man? So why is this so evident to you?
@@johnmulvey7890reading the Bible in the context of the culture in which it was written is something that few of these salesman rehashing sophomoric arguments ever do.
The part about Mary telling the boy Jesus that his father and she were worried about him is usually given in the Greek Testament in circulation as such: "ὁ πατήρ σου κἀγὼ" (English: "your father and I"). Then Jesus responds that he ought to be in his father's home, referring to God's Temple in Jerusalem. This perhaps implies that Jesus is correcting them about who his actual father is, ie, God, not Joseph.
Brilliant
Go a little slower for the lady signing for the deaf!
Off topic, but what is that thing you see moving in the background starting at about 2:50 of the video?
Yah, what's that
I adore you Professor Erhman ❤️
Interesting lecture.
As a Roman citizen, is it possible that Paul may have had a three part Roman name? I think I remember hearing that some people who gained Roman citizenship were written down by the censors with a three part Roman name. I'm not saying we have any way of knowing, just wondering if it's possible.
46 00..he better explain himself on that more, and have more info on that. because bart says that is so, might not mean that....and how does he come to such conclusion? ie. forgive them for what they do.]
Very sad to think some changes by scribes may have led in part to the horrific death of so many Jews over centuries.
It reminds me of the game I played as a kid you have 5 or 10 people or more and you tell the first person whispering in their ear "I have a black cat" then each person would whisper to the other person what they heard by the time the last person says what was told it will be completely different than the original. " I had a grey dog and orange cat."
whats the name of the oldest fragment size of a credit card
Smyrna , Izmir is my home town :)
it is not possible to "misquote" Jesus..where does the "real" quote be? in the Bible?
I think it would be a cool assignment to copy out one of the gospels or epistles. Of course, a professor's students would never want to talk to him anymore.
The story in the Gospel of Mark about Jesus getting angry at the leper can be found in one of the great early codices, the Codex Bezae, that has the text of the New Testament in Greek, as well as Latin on the opposite page. There, Jesus is said to be "enraged" (Greek: "ΟΡΓΙCΘΕΙC", written in the majuscule Byzantine alphabet of the period, as noted by the "Σ" being written as "C", Latin: "IRATUS", with "U" now used to represent both "U" and "V", while the reverse had been the norm earlier). The tradition of Jesus being enraged is most commonly found in Latin manuscripts. Modern editions of the New Testament rarely reproduce the account of Jesus getting enraged, and even then they sometimes use a slightly different wording than the one found in the Codex Bezae.
Excellent
I have concluded that Dr. Ehrman owns stock in the Armadillo Grill.
The problem of mixing up Isaiah, Exodus and Malachi in Mark 1:2 is interesting. The subsequent verse, Mark 1:3 is kinda similar and indeed originates from Isaiah. So they may have been "bundled" together by the original author or a subsequent scribe.
"Someone sneezed in the room and they didn't hear the word right"
Bart Ehrman gives historical facts.
Christian theologians preaches theological fallacies.
It depends on which theologians. Bishop John Shelby Spong has used Bart Ehrman as a source quite frequently, along with quite a few theologians that have been following in Spong's footsteps.
My Reluctant Theology I like Spong. Which theologians follow in his footsteps?
BecomingMike I'm realizing I probably shouldn't have said that any of them use Ehrman as a source, but they definitely embrace scholarship. Rev. Roger Ray and Rev. Guy Lynch haven't written any books, but I think they've quoted Ehrman somewhere along the lines. Of theologians following in Spong's footsteps, Rev. Michael Dowd is probably the best example. In the book of his that I've read (Thank God for Evolution), he doesn't talk much about Biblical scholarship, but he includes an essay written by Richard Dawkins (unedited and used with permission), and he talks a lot about scientific evidence. Dowd is one of the only Christian theologians to have earned the Richard Dawkins seal of approval. Marcus Borg (Rest In Peace) was a scholar, but he also has been looked upon as a theologian. There are, however, a lot of progressive theologians with views and ideas similar to Spong, focused on reshaping Christianity in some way or another. Rachel Held Evans, Nadia Bolz-Weber, Carlton Pearson, Paul Knitter, etc.
My Reluctant Theology WHAT? Borg is dead? It is a sad day for me now.
Thanks though!
BecomingMike It only happened very recently. He is still alive, however, through his writings and the wisdom he shared with us.
I love this talk! Looking forward to reading: Did Jesus Exist?
One of the biggest mistakes made in translation is that the word "celebrate" was translated to "celebate".
Celibate?
Brilliant! But i am sure very frightening to many religious people. Because this excellent analysis, can also be used on the Old Testament, Koran, Gita every religious book on this world...
*****
All religions are man made. Ancient fairy tale books from people who didn't have any idea what the world was about.
*****
There is (are) no god(s), no prophet(s) because the concept of god(s)/prophet(s) are human-invented ideas created in ancient worlds at a time nobody knew what was going on...There has never been anything like this, and never will be anything like god(s), prophet(s) and holy books because all religions are just made up in human brains...
***** skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html
*****
Oh, I never doubted, even for a second, that you're one of those dishonest fundamentalist tricksters who can spank every word of a text until they start saying whatever you want them to say. I'm pretty sure your answers would be quite amusing, but I have better things to do.
The parable of the budding fig tree is in Matthew 24, not Matthew 25.
Zazzle, an online store, offers a P52 necktie!
These small discrepancies don't bother me at all.
I can see why they might bother those who think the text was inspired by God.
What does bother me are the miracles, which are impossible.
They show that the authors are making up stories.
Not necessarily that the authors made up stories. The authors may have really believed the stories that were made up by other people and passed on by the oral tradition.
@@JohnDoe-ov9ib
That's possible, but difficult to believe.
I had a conversation a few hours ago with my neighbour about cars.
The conversation lasted about 15 minutes. I will now write down everything I can remember....
It was about cars and he said.., sorry, I don't remember and I said.... oops, can't remember !
@@tedgrant2 Lol, I don't get it
@@JohnDoe-ov9ib
Can you remember every detail of a conversation you had five years ago ?
I can't remember every detail of one I had yesterday !
The Bible is full of long conversations that were passed on by oral tradition ?
"And Jesus said, Blessed are the cheesemakers, for they shall be called the children of god"
@@JohnDoe-ov9ib
I'll give you an example from the gospels, Luke chapter fourteen. Please read it.
In that chapter, Jesus delivers a very long and important speech (about 30 out of the 35 verses).
Did somebody have a tape recorder ? Was there a scribe writing in short hand ?
When was Luke written ? Where was Luke written ? Who wrote Luke ? Nobody knows.
The Bible is a collapsing bridge.
7:04 skip the pop-quiz story he tells every lecture
This is all fascinating. How anyone can look at this history of the Bible, the uncertainty, multiple authorship over centuries, lack of original copies, disputed translations, missing sections, and so on...and claim the book is of divine origin is absolutely flabbergasting...like, couldnt God have avoided all of this?
@@Peekaboo-Kitty i thought the bible was divinely inspired? If you claim yes, the books were written under divine inspiration, then you must explain why god can't get his story straight and why countless details contradict each other. If it was not written by divine inspiration then the foundation of your faith comes crashing down. Either way you lose. Merry Christmas!!
@@Peekaboo-Kitty haha OK, I have no idea how you could be a Christian and not believe the bible but each to their own, happy new year to you too 😊
@@Peekaboo-Kitty idiotic, and a bunch of other glaringly obvious weaknesses. The more I look at the bible the more convinced I am it is all bogus. And when I look at the world, I see needless terrible suffering of innocent people. Even worse I see a world where greed, narcissism and selfishness are rewarded with wealth, power and status, and the kinder, more selfless you are, the more this world will grind you into the dirt. And I ask myself, why would god create such an unjust world? The only answer, the obvious answer, is that no such god exists.
In John 1:1, the Greek text that's most circulated reads "καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος". This can be translated in English in two ways: 1. "And the Word was God"; 2. "And the Word was a God". Both are equally valid in terms of language. This may allude to a belief in early Christianity that the Word was a divine being subordinate to God the Father, another "God". The relation between monotheism and the Holy Trinity had not yet been crystallised theologically (and would not, for a fairly long time).
I think in Mark he says that the apostles would see the end of the world , didn't he? He says none of you will die until all these things are passed.
PASTOR EHRMAN, UHM PASTOR BART EHRMAN
Good
I realise now that what we were told is Gospel truth is NOT really Gospel truth.!!!
20,00 - john miller found 30,000 variiation among the manuscripts put in bible footnotes fromm 100 manuscripts. today 5,700 manuscripts, no way someone can count all the differences. hundreds of thousand.
28,45 - ppl wanted to change texts too.
43,00 Jesus is angry not iritated.
in luke crucifiction it says Father forgive them.
earky luke taught Jesus death doesn't bring atonement.
28:29 Perhaps this is why that manuscript was found in a trash heap? Make a mistake throw it away.
very educating, i am sure Christians do not want to know about this. it ruins their fairy tale world.
I totally agree with Bart. This is one reason that the Christian Faith has many different branches ( Catholics, Pentecostals, ect., ect., ect. ) Not to mention the other major religions of the world. No doubt these other major religions have had the same historical treatment ( misquotes and mistakes ) written in their own Holy Books. And the result of this also is that there many different branches with different faiths. As happened in the Christian faith. Atheists strongly use these flaws in religions to attack Christianity or religions in general. But more specifically to discredit or disprove God. HOWEVER GOD AND RELIGIONS ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT TOPICS.
@@joedanache7970 No. No mistakes in Qur'an..
angela jakob You wish lol
I know everything Bart said is true and I am a christian. Bible inerrancy is one doctrine, not the core one
Take a shot every time Ehrman says COPIES.
Interesting how Ehrman basically lets those who were influential in the church "off the hook" in the end by blaming it all on "the scribes", as though they were independent of those who they were copying the manuscripts for, and would not have to answer for any definite biases after receiving their wages for their work.
What is typically omitted is the Jewish anti-Christian bias and overt persecution of the pre-Nicean church that troubled the very early church's members before it later got in bed with the Roman government with Constantine as recorded by Hans Kung in his landmark work "Christianity".
camera crew. Please choose one focus and leave it.
Wish others Christian Scholars come up and let Christian to knows to revived their theologian believe before departing this land.
According to Mark 15:46 jesus was taken down from the cross (how ?).
Later in Acts 1:9 Jesus was taken up into a cloud (how ?).
Before believing these fantastic events, I'd like lots more details please.
And I would like to see them being repeated.
@@Peekaboo-Kitty
I can't see how they got the nails out without damaging the flesh.
Did they use crow bars ? That requires a fulcrum, which means the bones would be crushed.
Did they use ladders ? Where were they placed ? At the back or the front ?
Either way seems to be too difficult or damaging to the body. Think !
@@Peekaboo-Kitty
I think the bodies were left on the cross until the bones were picked clean.
It's a lot easier to "take down" a skeleton than a heavy bloody dead body.
The main point of crucifixion was demonstration.
"Look what will happen to you if you don't behave".
@@Peekaboo-Kitty
I don't think the Romans would respect the strange beliefs of the local subjected tribes.
@@Peekaboo-Kitty
Did Jesus honour the Roman gods ?
@@Peekaboo-Kitty
Maybe that's why they executed him.
"In my father's house there are many mansions.... each on of em's gotta fire proof floor." R. Zimmerman
why people don't get the meaning of the fig tree??? because in those days they didn't have the calendar months with seasons starting and ending, people used to see signs in nature new moon new month so for summer they didn't count 12 moon apparently but the blossom of the fig tree, because Jesus says " WHEN YOU SEE LEAFS YOU KNOW" He doesn't say YOU GUESS.... what the egg Israel got to do with it????????
@Dirk Knight people in those days didn't have the calendar hugging on the wall as we do today. Obviously they knew months, weeks and years. But was calculate according to agricultural
@Dirk Knight i'm talking about the parable .if i want to argue about babylonian calendar maya calendar or egyptians calendar i wouldn't comment on this video. Jesus said the fig tree he didn't say on the 14th of june next week is the first day of summer
@Dirk Knight you should say this to Jesus is the one talking ;-)
@Dirk Knight 100% :-)
@@Peekaboo-Kitty ????
Isn't that Freddie Krueger's shirt? Careful with this guy!
This is why you have to have faith. There are of course inconsistencies, but would God allow His message corrupted? When the Lord Jesus "preach the gospel", He meant that the message can be preserved and can be shared in their original intention - for the salvation of men. Did God's message change from the beginning of time. Isn't He the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? You just have to have faith in the written word because He also revealed Himself there. If the written word says, Jesus said, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," would you think that this message was corrupted through translations? You just can see that the message is preserved. Going back, the text may be corrupted, but God's message is preserved.
Preserved? Did Judas hang himself, or fall over in his field and spill his guts?. Preserved contradictions?
The problem becomes that when you listen to what’s being said it would seem that these are problems unique to the Bible, as if they affect no other historical texts.
Truth is that 35-40 years post event was normal and that many historical texts contradict each other and have had amendments put in over their history.
I think the point is that people don't claim inspiration of those texts or base their entire lives around them. Christians place the gospels on a pedestal and many claim inerrancy. Dr. Ehrman is showing it isn't inerrant, just like those other texts.
@@colinc892 same could be said for Atheists though, they too put the Bible on a pedestal in terms of evidence and then use these arguments against the New Testament, ignoring the fact that the same could be said for any historical texts when, in fact, based on these arguments the New Testament is the most reliable historical text we have:
@@kymmoore853 atheists are just responding to the pedestal already put in place by Christians. If someone created a religion off the Iliad or the epic of gilgamesh, the same argument would apply. But no one takes the supernatural claims of those texts seriously like they do the Bible's.
The other thing I think Christians overlook is that all ancient history is subject to question and doubt. Even of the NT was the "best" that wouldn't mean much in terms of evidence. However I'd say the NT is not the best, and that this is a widely propagated falsehood.
@@colinc892 not really, I think a lot of Atheists reject the Bible and its claims and are willing to except events of the same period based on less evidence than the claims of the New Testament, if you applied the same logic to the books of the period you’d have to reject everything; but because they only reject and attack the Bible, normally because this is usually about the only historical text they’ve encountered, they put it in a place where no amount of evidence will ever be sufficient.
@@kymmoore853 Have you asked any atheists what they reject and why they reject it?
Why have the original gospels been lost ?
I don't get it. Surely God would make sure that his holy message wasn't thrown in the bin ?
When Moses smashed the tablets of stone whereon was written the Ten Commandments,
God gave him two new ones to replace the broken ones. They have also been lost ! Careless.
Those of us who have learnt about the protocols that used to communicate data in computer networks, like TCP/IP, know that there are a multiplicity of mechanisms to both ensure the data has been received and that that data was accurate when received. The use of mathematics to ensure that the received data can be checked as being consistent with the sent data, is rather simple and elegant but more importantly essential for the effective maintenance of integrity on a network, or within any data system.
Similarly many data storage formats include methods by which the data can be checked to still be accurate to the original to any degree of precision, including down to a single bit of error if need be.
On top of this are the mechanisms and protocols which date stamp both the creation, editing and access of this data as well as who has accessed or altered this data, to any level of precision considered desirable.
Finally, we can also make authenticated copies of this data, which can also be checked for imperfections and consistency against itself and other versions. These redundancies allow us to ensure data is maintained even when platforms are attacked or corrupted.
We simple humans have created methods which ensure our day to day data is held with precision and can be tested for accuracy, as well as tell us when that data has become corrupted and cannot be trusted any longer.
Yet, here we have communications instigated by a deity, who is often claimed to have manufactured us directly as well as the rest of the known universe, yet there is no definitive method for testing if these messages originated with that deity, have being repeated consistently, or remain consistent in content or meaning with their original intent.
If this isn't the most damming evidence of the absence of a benevolent omnipotent deity, I don't know what is.
بِسْمِ اللَّـهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
فَوَيْلٌ لِّلَّذِينَ يَكْتُبُونَ الْكِتَابَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ يَقُولُونَ هَـٰذَا مِنْ عِندِ اللَّـهِ لِيَشْتَرُوا بِهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلًا ۖ فَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ ﴿٧٩﴾ سورة البقرة
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah," in order to exchange it for a
(small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. (79
Quran 2.79 - Al-Baqara
17:40 The assumption is the the Gospel had been copied many many many many times from increasingly unreliable copies. What isn't known is what generation the latest copy was copied from. Was it the second generation or the 10th? There's some slight of brain happening here.
You're ignoring that it was spread by word of mouth for decades before being eventually written down. And it was written in a different language than the original stories. And that we have hard evidence of copy errors and interpolations. We don't know the exact genealogy of any manuscript fragment. Even so, we know there is no original text. If you want to argue that there are only 100,000 inconsistencies instead of 400,000 you might be able to make such an argument. But you can't argue that we have evidence there are no inconsistencies on the basis of historical evidence.
Matthew king james bible 19
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew king james bible 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven
Misquoting a fictional character is a pretty minor offense.
Jesus was a real person. Bart wrote a whole book on the subject.
Well Ehrman thinks Jesus existed for sure. Just saying.
At 48:00 in the video, Bart talks about the story of the woman caught in adultery. What’s so often gotten to me about this story is; where is the man that she was caught in adultery with? If she was caught in adultery it must have been with a man, or else how could she have actually been caught in adultery. Jewish law states that both of them, both the man and the woman, must be stoned to death when caught in adultery. So my question is, where is this man? If they don’t have the man too, then why not, and what is going on, in that they don’t have him also.
It makes me wonder what the sins of the people doing the accusing were, that Jesus wrote out in the sand.
Sailing Ship The reason is that the bible considers women to be more untrustworthy. The story is a fable anyhow, so there is no real need for the writer to get into details about fairness. What the unknown writer of John wants to layout here, is that Jesus is God, and has the power to forgive.
Sailing Ship "where is the man that she was caught in adultery with?"
Not necessary to the story, so not mentioned *in* the story. Known as the Law of Conservation of Detail.
To anyone reading this thread: Any true and enlightened understanding of God does not see people as less than or less worthy based on gender. This is a false and distorted understanding and portrayal of God.
+Sailing Ship Isn't it interesting how, whatever the bible says, what it *means* always exactly matches the beliefs of those who consider it infallible. Both before and after they've changed their minds.
+Stefan Travis Praise Allah Muslims aren't that way with the "clear signs" (Quran)! :)
Other than an intellectual argument, I fail to see anything convincing. I have a hard time with the idea that things were written substantially after the fact since it's not really a book as we like to call it. The bible is a collection of various historical documents. Nobody wrote the bible.
+Robert Garrett Huh?
+Robert Garrett The Bible was actually inspired by Jesus from God, but the original Gospel that Jesus preached was lost. What Christians have now were only translations of copies as what Dr.Bart has explained..The point he tried to tell is that it was corrupted and changed by the scribes.
So is the quran.
The written Christian version of oral Chinese whispers.
Black Christians need to be at this Lecture.
The modern collapse of Christianity ...!
Nuun, amen.
7:45 Jesus spoke Aramaic, But the Gospel of Mark was written in Greek. Somehow this a problem? My 16 year old son speaks two languages. I have a real hard time imagining that certain concepts can't be translated between one another in more than one language. If we are two believe that premise then how was there any commerce?
"Whoever Mark was?" Mark was John Mark, a protégé of Paul, sent away and then later under the service of Peter from whom he wrote the Gospel of Mark. So the premise of Aramaic to Greek is a false one. Peter was giving HIS first hand account to Mark in greek. These were missionaries. Even if you don't believe in the gift of tongues, they traveled all over having plenty of opportunity to learn other manners of speech.
9:30 Literate people were far and few between? By this time in history jews, as a people, have been conquered, enslaved and/or displaced over an over again. In reading David Mamet (jewish) I'm enlightened as to why education is so highly regarded in the jewish community. It is the one thing that cannot be taken from you that has so much value even to your captors. So that if and when you are forced from your home, the society you end up forced to live in will see your worth as a servant or translator...(Aramaic to Greek?) Able to assist in matters of negotiation and commerce. So uh.... I wouldn't go so far as "few between"
9:45 Probably probably.... kinda shaky there
10:00 Probably not.
After years of careful study, it has been concluded that the Dead Sea Scrolls give substantial confirmation that our Old Testament has been accurately preserved. The scrolls were found to be almost identical with the Masoretic text. Hebrew Scholar Millar Burrows writes, “It is a matter of wonder that through something like one thousand years the text underwent so little alteration. As I said in my first article on the scroll, ‘Herein lies its chief importance, supporting the fidelity of the Masoretic tradition.'”
Now if the old testament can have accuracy after a thousand years, what's the real issue with the new testament?
I'm not too impressed.
Dave Webster So you are simply talking about translation and completely ignoring, As Christians do, a whole lot of the important facts, for instance the very start of the whole big problem. Stories were told, by WORD OF MOUTH.....for many, many years. A story that was heard at some point became a story that was written down. Copies of THAT Story which came from the mouth of a friend, relative or neighbor or maybe a stranger, were made by a person who wanted to have this story for himself. Copies of that and copies of those were made. Were you paying attention to the fact that printing presses came about in the 1700's? That a scholar found some 30,000 differences, mistakes between some 100 "versions" out of 5,000 versions that exist? Yes, of course you wish to speak to the Translation issue. Of course your son can speak two languages and so this solves all the problems we have with this old bookl that is so corrupted its sickening. Also, God can inspire me to write something, but YOU can take that writing and do as you wish with it, correct? Of course! Supposedly God gave us the ten commandments but as you know God does not interfere here or do anything to make sure you follow such guidance. In other words, the ten commandments were inspired but no safeguards were put in place to uphold them. A person may have been inspired to write something and of course a copy can be made and errors can be made as well and surely this did happen. God gave us Jesus but did nothing to save him. So the argument that God would inspire a writing and make sure it was kept pure and accurate is beyond rediculous. So then, back to your argument about translation. Any and all translations were as pure as gold and never a mistake was made, just as it all came supposedly from the lips of God correct? Man you one funny guy!
Dave Webster When he said Whoever Mark was, he was not meaning that he did not know who Mark was, but rather, the name Mark was given to this particular writing because there was no name on any of the gospels when they were gathered up amongst all the COPIES of writings floating about. So he meant whoever this Mark was, the real original writer of that particular writing. Just so happened that four of the people known to be by Jesus's side most days were given credit for those four bits of writing. You bible worshippers will defend your beliefs to the death as many millions have done no matter how foolish or stupid you look in the process. Wake up buddy!
Your son learned the languages as a kid. Jesus followers were ordinary, simple men who, at Jesus life time at least, spoke only one language. So you really expect that the became rich after Jesus death, could effort an education in greek and learn the language? Especially, when their main goal was to preach the message. And since Jesus was a jew and thought only to pray to jews, why not write the gospels in Aramaic?
Is your idea impossible? No. Is it likely? Not really. I would need a lot of phantasy to believe such a version.
* Dave Webster - the only thing you have accomplished here is share your "opinions" because you and everyone you know and have learned from did not live in those days and times and were not present then. You are picking things or spots in this speech and then offering your opinion whether you agree with it or not and you try to show that you base your opinion on facts from other sources, scholars and so forth, but we now know that anyone can claim to be a scholar, many of them only look for info that backs up and defends their beliefs and they discard the rest. Much like those who gathered up writings and edited them when creating the bible. They discarded anything that they did not like or showed Jeshua to be a normal human being like the rest of us. They cut out all the women from his life to try and show he was over and above sexuality, intimacy and relationships. The Truth is, the wedding at Cana where he manifested more wine, bread and fish was actually his own wedding. I don't have to share opinions or base my ideas and thoughts on somebody else's ideas and theories, because Jeshua never went silent. Why would he? Never turned his back on humanity. Why would he? Inspiration has not stopped 2,000 years ago and anyone who thinks so is an idiot. Preachers and Priests would have you believe that the bible is the only Message we will ever get from Higher Sources or the Highest Source. They know nothing at all. They simply studied an old storybook and came to their own individual conclusions. Messengers have been sent here since the beginning of time and always will they come. Inspired writings have come to us from the beginning and always will. Where do you think the internet came from? Jeshua (Jesus) speaks to us all the time in many ways and forms and one of them is through human beings, either by automatic writing, sending pictures and blocks of info mentally to another human being or speaking through them just as we speak. He has answered every question a human being could come up with and there is no need to speculate, form an opinion or wonder about anything at all. Bible worshippers have shut God and Jeshua and others out of their life because they have been taught that the bible is the one and only Message humans will ever receive and anything else is from Satan. A Being who does not exist. Stories were told to help savages and uneducated people in those days understand spiritual truths. Characters in those stories have come to be thought of as real entities sadly. Heaven and Hell are states of mind, not locations where you may be sent after death. You can experience either of them right here and now. A Lady on the other side of the country who does not know me or you and whom Jeshua (Jesus) speaks through can get on the phone with you or talk to you or me in person and tell you all about your life from birth to the present. Every moment of your life in great detail and what you were feeling and thinking in any moment, who was involved, why it happened, how the others felt and so on. There is not a psychic alive, nor was there ever one who could recite your whole life, all of it, like this. It is Jeshua speaking and He does in fact know all. All about this current life and all the others your Soul has taken on. We have new writings, new books and new Messages, as well as new Messengers. Wake up! And whoever gave the name New Age to certain books or groups of people, did this because it is a negative response to the fact that something other than the bible is being respected by many millions of people. There is nothing at all new in the new age books. Nothing. There are books from the 1800's that carry the same exact Messages, Teachings and Truths. God and Jeshua of course see all the confusion, disagreements and opinions taking place with regards to the bible. Everyone who reads it gets their own opinion and beliefs about what any of it means. They do see this! After Jeshua supposedly left Earth for good, there was much splintering going on, even amongst his closest friends, followers and disciples. They all had their own opinions about what he really meant on any subject. They did not stick together and in fact went their own ways. The Roman Rulers and Powerful Ones saw all this and chose to do something to bring in all people under One roof. This is how the bible came about. There are things in that book that are absolutely rediculous and laughable and the reason is, because those who had their hands in forming that book placed their own thoughts, feelings, ideas and rules into the final version. Christians have patented answers and replies they use when they are faced with questions about particular subjects and important subjects. They use either "God works in mysterious ways" or "We are not to know such things" or "Everything we are meant to know or understand is in the holy bible, if it is not in there, then we don't need to know it". They don't know God or Jesus one bit. They all simply studied an old storybook, written by storytellers, full of stories. Places where one Gospel is speaking about an event or person or circumstance, differs from the same story written by one of the other Gospels. So God made mistakes? LOL...no God did not make any mistakes, but the authors of those Gospels heard stories by word of mouth or read a story written by someone else and so they wrote it down and that writing became a Gospel according to those who put that old book together. Another Writing which we are told is a Gospel and special, important writing comes from another writer who has the story wrong or different depending on who they heard it from or which copy of a copy of a copy they got in their hands. Understand?
It's not an opinion, it's an observation. That's what happens when you open your eyes.
Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.
Is he getting money from Dan Brown ?
Salut e
Bart as Muslim listening your lecture is very amazing but you are just repeating what Alah SWT. Swt said in 1499 yes ago that the Torah and gospel are corrupted and false and it is man made invention it is not from the Creator, the Jews their priest and rabbii had changed the basic fundamental of the message of the prophets so that why Allah SWT send the final Messenger Mohamed pbuh even mention both Bible ie the true spirit is named named for Mohamed which in Arabic is Ahmed and the g
Holy ghost in Ang g as briel
Dear Dr.Bart,
Recently I watched your lecture on FFRF stage and would like to draw your kind attention on NT since you are considered one of the NT scholar especially John 8:58 and Mathew 16:28 so as to confirm the claims of the HB are true or false, hope it is worth for you to spend few minutes.
The reason is that you are fully depend upon the historical documents, not strive for a "Spiritual document" that's the only source available authentic, for example in John 8:58 Jesus claims that before Abraham was, I am. The Pharisees took stones to cast on him saying that you are not even 50 years old.....
Do you think that Jesus does not know that he was 30 or 32 years old?
Do you think that he does not know his parents and family members?
His physical age having root from the Holy Spirit that exist in the past and he knew everything and this facility is also made available for you and anyone who diligently search the truth, so as to arrive a convincing confirmation ultimately.
For example in Mathew 16:28 Jesus Says that "Assuredly" or " verily verily " that means it is 200% true and will come to pass, there are some standing here they will not taste death until they see the return of the son of man.
Is it that they are some who never die? Why Jesus says such a word of puzzle?
There will be a time after 2000 years probably 21st century there are some might receive the reception of the Holy Spirit into their physical body as the climax of the study of the Holy Bible and those some knew about the past probably 1st century events because of the HS that descended from heaven during 1st century and still exist. This is not happened to you or anyone so far that does not mean it will not happen in the future.
In your study of the Bible You never link these two scriptures John 8:58 & Mathew 16:28 in view of the future or a hypothetical situation. The NT provides the HS as a " Spiritual document" by connecting you could have come to know what happened in the 1st century and confirm whether NT events are true or false, instead you like people mix with myths and show yourselves are intelligent.
"Faith or belief is a system process in an individual mind that can achieve a place wherein further faith/belief is not necessary"
People like you failed to achieve a place in your process system and arrived to the wrong destination in which you does not know answers for many things and your education to others also leads them in to wrong destination. I do not want you to reconsider your position but to prove the HB are true not only by talk but also by walk and why don't we meet in person and discuss across the table? Thank you.
William G.Peter
www.wgpeter.com
William George Peter John is the most corrupted book of bible
William George Peter anyone can categorically deny Greek bible as word of God through his messenger son of Mary Jesus who was speaking Aramaic not Greek. Greek did forgery in the name of Jesus
missing the point...even if we had the original greek or original ...Aramaic...bart wouldn t believe in god or jesus. the main story is there, even if I heard it and not read it, the idea is to get something of it....this comment of the adulterous woman is a story, whether it true or not, has a point...if it is true, bart will not believe jesus has the authority to change jewish law. if you believe jesus is the son of god, one can understand , he has the authority over jewish law. you see, what about turn the other cheek? so jesus is changing jewish law. so does that mean he was conflicted? does that also mean , it was added? so he is assuming jesus was conflicted. why? cause he doesn t think jesus is son of god. as I said, if you do, guess what, he s not conflicted, and the story can easily be true. he s coming from the point of an unbeliever, which he should omit everything in the gospels, then...people who don t believe, or are atheist or agnostic, may love bart. because he is an expert of the bible, yet doesn t believe in jesus, or god. perfect. this is also a contradiction.
Tell me how scholarly analysis that thoroughly debunks the Gospels as historical fact , in no way undermines faith ? I find it strange that Ehrman cites his abandonment of his faith down to ‘ other ‘ reasons . Without the miracles and Resurrection there is no basis for the Christian faith. The reason Jesus performs miracles is because he wants to prove that he is divine . Bart is saying your faith is based on lies or misinformation in old manuscripts that have been altered, doctored, forged, and plain made up by anonymous men with hidden agendas centuries ago ! He would be better focusing his attention therefore on the Catholic Church and it’s power to propagate the myth. How does the church carry on maintaining such a deception today ?
Personal experience. Jesus shows himself. There are countless written documentations of it... since the beginning... And in other religions. It doesn't matter if the NT is mostly debunked. There was no NT for centuries and Christianity spread like lightning.
And remember when the angels said, "O Mary, God sends you the good news of a Command of His: his name shall be Messiah, Jesus son of Mary. He will be highly honored in this world and in the Next World and he will be among those favored by God. He will speak to the people alike when in the cradle and when grown up, and he will be among the righteous." Hearing this, Mary said, "How, O Lord, shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me?" "Thus shall it be,"44 was the answer. God creates whatever He wills. When He decrees a thing, He only says, "Be" and it is. (Continuing their message, the angels added,) "And God will teach him the Book and wisdom, and give him the knowledge of the Torah and the Gospel, and appoint him as His Messenger to the children of Israel." Quran 3:45-49
Quran also says in Surah Baqarah, verse 79.
So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. 2:79
Memoona Bilal Yet there are variants of the Quran.
stephen anthony .. Your proof ??
@stephen anthony you may watch these: th-cam.com/video/iAY4W078DHI/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/RkuZDHgmJBw/w-d-xo.html
@@stephenanthony7164, why dont you ask mr. Ehrman what he thinks of the Qur'an...
This is what Muslim read in Quran. God told in Quran chapter 3 verse 78
(3:78) And there is a party among them who twist their tongues while reciting the Book to make you think that it is part of the Book when in fact it is not.They say: 'It is from God', when in fact it is not from God. They falsely fix a lie upon God, and do so wittingly.
Dear Bart Ehrman
Go and research the Qur'an if is not from GOD you will find contradiction it challenge mankind .
Wow, Bart!!! you are saying no one heard of the story in the Gospel of John of the stoning of the woman for 1000 years???? I am not a scholar but, even I know of two stories of the stoning of the woman before it was put in the Gospel of John. One of the stories is from Papias and the Didascalia, and the other found in Didymus and the Gospel of the Hebrews. So the story of the stoning of the woman goes back at least to 100CE.
15:43 Okay... So let me get this right. Just because it's there and possibly correct, doesn't mean that it actually means anything. That's your whole point? That it could be right but doesn't mean you have to believe it? The same thing can be said about Misquoting Jesus. It could be accurate but that doesn't mean it's correct.
that chick dancing at the front was very distracting.
Same jokes, different lecture..
No. Same lecture, different crowd.
Bart destroys jesus..... again.
Actually, Bart Ehrman wrote a book about how Jesus existed because he was fed up with people using him as a source for claiming his non-existence.
Maaruks Bart destroys mythical Jesus by Greek not the historical Jesus of Galilee who spoke Aramaic not Greek nor he was Greek.
Quran confirmed this 1400 years ago
Mavors44 .. Have you read it??
Mavors44 ..
Thank you for your reply.
Okay , from this part which you read .. Can you show me what made you to believe that it is bullshit.. ??
Hocine Larbaoui Nope
@Mavors44 , do you agree that the Quran actually says the bible was changed 1400 years before bart erhman?
@@hassanm2357 I've read all of it and I can concur that it is BS. Stolen from Jewish myths