If you want your water warmer, you could always turn the flow off and let the water sit in the solar heater say 15-30 minutes in the sun then start the flow again. Maybe put the water pump on a timer to run every 15-20 minutes for however long you think it takes to go thru the water that’s been sitting in your solar heater? I don’t think a consistent flow of water would necessarily be needed?
Temperature is a measurement that determines the direction and rate of energy flow. If you want a cup of tea lower the flow. If you want to heat up your pool speed up the flow because by slowing down the flow you waste energy. As soon as visible light is absorbed the energy turns into heat which is lost by conduction, convection and radiation. Maximize heat transfer by conduction into the pipes.
FYI - i did this for an in ground pool. you dont even need it to be spooled nicely like this or anything.. just toss the black hose on your roof and have your pool water circulate through it.. wala.. you'll have a really heated pool in no time.. do it with the pool filter pump or with a different pump, it does not matter.. just noticed this was 2 years ago.. but if anyone else reads comments other than me, just know that it works pretty well for a large 6 foot deep inground pool in florida. and almost too well for a small jacoozy.
@@julienbo with a 2 inch pipe with a 1/2 inch tap on the side.. you can get them at home depot. or go 2 inch T, then reduce the 2 inch to 1, then to 1/2 or whatever.. just go down there and play with all the connectors, you'll find something that works its just water.. not like your going to blow anything up..
Someone brought this up earlier, but you really want to increase the flow and lower the outlet temp. The biggest factor in heat transfer is temperature difference. You have a 140F chamber and the cooler the tubes, the more heat they can absorb. If I recall your numbers i think you had 77F in and 89F out at the lower flow which you thought was about half the higher flow. Lets say that flow was 1 pound per minute. 1 BTU will heat 1# or water 1F, so that would be 12BTU/min or 750BTU/hr. You said the higher flow netted you about 87F, or 10F rise, but at double the flow(2#/min) that is 20BTU/min or 1200BTU/hr. You may have a lower temp at the higher flow, but you are actually capturing more energy because the lower coil temp makes the panel more efficient. Nicely done, most people neglect the clear cover, and that makes a significant difference in how well the work.
Hey rronmar. This is great info, and now I have a question based on your comments. Let me begin with what I understood from your info... higher volume of flow, with a 2-5 degree increase is preferable to a trickle with a 10, 20, 30 degree increase, correct? So, my thought was this... if I have a 1 ft. x 30 ft. enclosure, lined with black tar paper and a clear poly top (super long, skinny box)... and in that box I run six (6) lengths of 1.5" black ABS pipe, back and forth like a radiator (giving me 180' of continuous run), would you think I could expect the target temperature increase of 2-5 degrees? Based on your math, is this a sound idea, or could I get even more or faster heating? It's not a money issue, so much as a sneaky space and durability issue. I'm not a fan of cheap plastic irrigation tube. Thanks!
@@matthewpeterson3329 you can get higher energy output with higher flow. Another problem with low flow and higher temps is that the hot box temp rises and the box itself sheds heat to the surrounding cooler air instead of passing it into the water(thermal rejection). At some point with flow increase you will hit a decrease in collected energy as the fluid gets less time to absorb. If you can measure inlet and outlet temp and exact flow rate you can find the maximum power production point by comparing the numbers like I described above. Most solar electric charge controllers track this and load the panel to the voltage that delivers the highest wattage output. Heat transfer is about temp difference and time/flow rate which determines how long the fluid contacts the heat surface. Your real collection surface area in the box you described is mostly going to be on the side exposed to the sun. Unless there is room for hot air to circulate around behind the tubes the side away from the sun won’t contribute much. Another thing to consider is laminar flow. Fluid flowing thru a tube tends to stratify with the fluid along the inner wall staying there and the fluid flowing thru the center staying there. So the fluid against the wall gets real hot but acts like an insulating blanket(water in a wet suit) keeping the center tube water from absorbing. And that raises the skin temp of the cooling tubes and causes increased thermal rejection. When talking about transfer into water, turbulence is your friend. Especially for pipes that large you need to install something to create turbulence. Like a long strip of plastic twisted which will force the water to spiral up the tubes. I would try to install a turbulence creating device on any tube type collector. For that matter you could put a smaller capped PVC pipe inside the 1.5” pipe and get rid of the center of the flow that really isn’t doing anything for you anyway. Some dots/dimples of sealant or screws on that inner pipe would produce turbulence in the area between the two pipes and keep the inner pipe centered in the outer pipe. My ideal collector would be 2 plates with a mesh sandwiched in between to create turbulence in between the plates, set in an insulated box with a clear cover. A flat plate collector like that would not be able to hold much pressure. I experimented once with a sheep of thin aluminum glued to a foam sheet with a bunch of criss-crossed cuts(formed a bunch of pyramids) for the water to flow/tumble thru. It worked pretty well…
@@rronmar Awesome information, and thanks for the quick reply!!! I hadn't considered a flat panel system like you described, but I have some material at work that I could experiment with. It's basically a corrugated wafer that could be boxed into a wide, flat-ish tray. Good volume, good surface area and good churn... might be the ticket!
I am just entering the world of diy solar pool heaters and thank you for verifying my thoughts. I saw one in person and the owner ran it at a low flow rate to keep the output hot. But that is leaving uncaptured heat in the lines. Realistically, the black pipe is going to absorb all the heat it can from the sun and transfer that into the water, so it shouldn't matter if the output feels significantly warmer than the pool.
@@developingdaddy correct, up to a point. Heat transfer is about temp difference, surface area and time. If the flow is too fast, in theory you could leave heat in the panel uncollected. It is important to be able to accurately measure flow. Thats as easy as a 5gal bucket and a stopwatch. @ 8.8lb per gallon, you can then know pounds per min/hour. If you add in input and output temps, you can then figure BTU/min or hour. 1 BTU will raise 1lb of water 1deg F. It then becomes a matter of adjusting flow to find the optimal BTU/HR. You of course need to make these measurements under the similar sun conditions…
Not a bad build at all. Back in the early 70's I built a solar heater for my mother. She had a patio with a sink and cold water only. One day she said she wished she had a source of hot water. So I went to the local hardware store and bought five 8' lengths of 4" ABS pipes and some fittings. With short tubes between elbows, all in all it was about 393 inches in length. 4"Ø x Pi x 393" = 4,938.6 cu. in. of water. Divide that by 231 (cu. in. per gallon) comes to a water capacity of abut 21.4 gallons of water sitting on an asphalt shingle roof (slope 1:48"). Not a lot of hot water, but the Southern California sun would heat that water to pretty darn hot. Mom was pleased. At the top of the two lengths I drilled quarter inch holes tapped with NPT 1/4" thread and installed 1/4" plugs. Their purpose was so the air could be removed and effectively make the system nearly full of water. Darn thing worked great. How many gallons of water in your pipe? You said bout 400 feet of 1/2" piping. @400 feet of 1/2" piping that's about 4.1 gallons of water. With a 1" pipe you would have four times the volume for the same length. Like I said, this was back in the early 70's so I didn't do any temperature testing. But the water basically sat in the sun all day, every day unless mom used the hot water outside. One thing you didn't mention was water flow rate, how many gallons per hour. With that information you can calculate the thermal gain versus the size of the pool, heat loss to atmosphere at the surface as well as how long it takes to heat the total volume of the pool. All in all, it's not a bad build. I wish I knew how much thermal gain I got out of my system. One thing I DID learn the hard way was to put an over-temp / over-pressure relief valve on the system. I blew out a pipe. Had to rebuild a small section and installed the safety pressure relief valve. In the end it was a great system.
@@CorinneJudge The solar heater was built back in the late 60's, maybe 1970. No photos exist of the plumbing. Somewhere I have a drawing but it - too - is so old I'm having a hard time finding it. I'll keep looking. But basically, in So.Cal. summer sun was hot enough to really heat the water in the black ABS pipes. ABS is not recommended for drinking water supplies. The basic design was to 8 foot tubes with a couple elbows and adapters from 1/2 inch pipe thread to whatever diameter ABS. I think it was 3 inch ABS, not sure; was a very VERY long time ago. Even drawings are "work from memory". I'll see if I can find it.
solar hot water tanks are req in hawaii for years on new homes.. i have not put electric to my house water heater one time yet , water stays 120 + round :). same 2 panels with hoses on roof connected to pump on water tank
I made a round one of these about 20 years ago. It has been stored outside every winter and I’ve modified my design over the years. The first change was to make long straight runs looping at the ends like a racetrack to reduce resistance and the amount of bends. Then I went to a zig-zag design using male/female barbed fittings to reduce the system’s footprint and make it easier to drain out before winter. The original was 3/4” pipe and I added a few hundred feet of 1” pipe in the same zig-zag arrangement. This black pipe is super durable (you can walk on it), but I’m changing my design away from zig-zag and using tee fittings barb-female thread-barb to make the pipe run close and parallel and less pipe. If you have a retired clear solar blanket like I do, you can glaze over the solar panel to increase heat gain and prevent loss from wind and light rain. All this engineering is great, but as my dad once said “ to late smart” because I believe there a much easier and cheaper way to make a solar heater using a 2” heavy duty black roll-up Swimming Pool Backwash Hose - 50’ for $35 Amazon. Just lay the hose out or cut it into a couple parallel runs and glaze over it with clear plastic.
"Do it Wrong Yourself" that was enough to get my sub.. Irony, I love it. I appreciate the no-nonsense video, top notch work. Backyard builder approved.
Looks great. You could also consider adding a thin layer of sand to what the coil pipes sit on, and then having two large mirrors on the ground angled at the sand to make the heat increase, like them solar power stations near Vegas maybe
Very, very impressive. I really liked your heat-saving techniques (the black paper backing, using an enclosure to trap the heat, etc). Really cool and can't wait to try it. And just like any good teacher, you made it look so simple. Well done!
We did this and it is AWESOME - thank you so much for the great idea!! We live in the SF bay area and the last couple years our pool has always been more on the "frigid" side. Within a few hours of setup and starting the heater we had 80 degree reading. It did cost cost a bit more than $50, but worth every penny 😀 Thanks again for the great idea!
8:53 You don't have to worry about slowing the outflow to increase the metered temperature. Faster flow through the system is picking up every BTU. Less loss of heat. Exaggerated easy of saying this... slow it even further to almost a drip. The water will be very hot but now it's sitting in the system giving it time to leave said system back in the air. Faster water will allow all the heat created to transfer into the water to get sent to the pool. Sorry if confusing.
Awesome build! Decreasing flow rate may increase the delta T but it won’t speed up heating the pool. Consider mixing a drop of boiling hot water to a gallon of ice water vs adding a half gallon of Luke warm water to half gallon of ice water. In both cases you have about a gallon but the Luke warm / ice water mixture will be much warmer overall. And in this case it probably makes zero difference but you might start to see higher losses to air around the panel as its temp delta to air increases, increasing convective heat transfer to the surrounding air.
@@chriskibodeaux9818 in this instance, the thing to do is run the water at maximum speed. The higher the temperature differential between the source and the sink, the more energy is transferred. If you run it slow you'll just spend energy heating already hot water. The faster the water flows the more it behaves like it's heating the whole pool at once.
@@chriskibodeaux9818 this is how heat transfer works. Heating something that's already hot isn't going to increase overall heat in the system. I've been doing this weekly for years when I make beer. Regardless of your source, you want to maximize the temperature differential to extract the maximum amount of heat from the source. In my case I'm chilling beer too achieve cold break using a counter flow chiller. You counter flow to achieve a high temperature differential across the whole chiller.
To clarify some of what others have said, there's a little science behind heat transfer and it may work in your favor. If the water in your coils is too hot it will shorten the life of the poly pipe, and also could be uncomfortable to anyone near the discharge. The most heat transfer will happen with the least loss with only a few degrees temp rise. This is mostly because the rise will slow down as it reaches ambient temp. IOW, something between 2-5 degrees rise (from in to out) is a good target because the rising pool temp will slowly raise the inlet temp anyway. The reality is most people need to increase their flow rate. The goal is to have a continued but slow rise. In tech terms that's called a differential. The other tip I will throw in is that on order to make an appreciable rise the sq ft of the solar must be about 50% of the pool surface sq ft.... or higher. Most people use a small panel then wonder why they don't see a difference. The reason is the sun only shines so long but the pool cools off during the other 18 hours of the day. Keeping the pool covered can also gain you an extra 5-10 degrees by slowing evaporative cooling. Some people say a pool cover is too expensive, but that's cheap compared to heating a pool by conventional means.
a "solar cover" (really, as you said evaporative cooling prevention blanket) is about 100 dollars and will last 5 years if you take care of it on a reel. 50% of the pool area is...rather large. yikes.
@@danielroden9424 ... to put that in perspective, the 50% rule is up here in New England. (I'm in Ct) The flip side is I know people who use a solar cover but need a water cooler to run on days when it overheats. (actually runs at night) It can be a balancing act to keep temps comfy.
I thought about doing this method of a pool heater but I was thinking about doing the fire heater, pumping water from the pool thru a steel tube slowly thru a fireplace and back into the pool. Be kinda cool to have a fire five feet from the pool while heating up the water. Plus the fire water heater would work on cloudy days as well.
You will transfer more heat to the pool with a faster flow rate. The temperature difference won't be as high but the actual heat energy transfer will be greater. Higher flowrate will give you a warmer pool!
The most impressive part to me was 2:30 the actual coiling of the tubing. However I don't want plastic being circulated in my water supply. Heat and plastic are an infamously bad combination. Doesn't really matter what kind it is. If it's on the market, it's going to degrade and leech in sunlight. Not just chemicals but microplastics. I've seen other builds using copper tubing, which must be a massive price hike but would be a safe alternative. This is a wonderful concept that can be modified in countless ways.
A Brilliant video, thanks for sharing. I have just ordered a pool and, the accessories seem to cost more than the pool, so your diy heater looks a very attractive project. All I need do is wait for everyone to moan how cold the water is, then away I go.
I actually really enjoyed this video and I am going to share this with my friends and my not so friends.. n I'm sure they all will enjoy ... thanks n God bless
We are having a pool installed this summer. Living in TX we can get pool weather into late October. I figure with a heater setup like this we could probably add a few more weeks in November before the cold weather overwhelms it. What will really be the test is using it in the Spring. I suspect we could start getting in the pool early April if we can start warming the water up with this in March.
I built my own version. I did some thing differently that make mine easier to deal with. I live in NC. All we need is to get the pool up to temp when we open it in April and allow us to stretch our season a couple of weeks in the fall. We do use a solar cover to help keep any temperature gain through the night. We don't want to look at the heaters all year so we need them to be portable or more portable than your version. 1) I made two 4'x4' heaters. Each heater has ~200 ft of 1/2" irrigation tubing. A 4x8 panel is way too cumbersome for me to move around by myself. 2) I added two non-swivel casters to one side. 3) I added a handle on each of the other sides. I can roll them away when I want to store them. The coils hold several gallons of water at 8lbs per gallon. They are pretty heavy. I run a 500 gallon/hr pump and get a 10 to 12 degree temp increase. It may not sound like that but I am doing a pretty good flow rate. My pool is around 10K gallons. I am able to increase the pool temp 15 to 20 degrees in little over a week, depending on sun and outside temp. If the tubing feels warm then you are not absorbing as much heat as you could. In the winter, it does go below freezing. We usually close our pool at the end of Oct. and reopen it the first week in April. If any water is left in the tubing, it could freeze and split the tubing. You could take an air compressor, get a garden hose air compressor connection at any RV store, and blow out the lines. But if you don't get all the water out, you could have a problem. I plan on pouring a couple of gallons of RV/Marine food grade antifreeze into a bucket with my pump and pumping it through the solar heaters. I will flush the antifreeze out with water in the spring.
Thank you! I REALLY appreciate your approach - actually measuring inflow and outflow temps at different flow rates. Excellent. I built a coil heater based on a design by "desertsun02" using black-painted PEX tubing and he implied the temperature increase would be over 50F almost immediately! I really, really berated him for that bad science approach after I found my results were more like 4F (for a much smaller design than yours). He never replied. Coward. What you have done is akin to "good science". I cannot tell you how much I appreciate that. Good work!
I used this idea to do a less-expensive (although less effective) version: running the tubing along our in-ground pool fence. The fence is about 60 feet on the long side. It took four-and-a-half trips around to get all 500 feet of tubing unwound & installed. I put the spool on a sawhorse so was easy to counteract the half-turn at the ends, and any other twists that arose. To save money, I used old 10baseT ethernet wire cut to length (solid wire better than stranded), but zip ties etc. will work. The water temp went from 65 to 80 in less than two weeks. In full sun, it comes out about five degrees warmer than it goes in (max temp so far here in middle Georgia has been about 80). One-third hp sump pump on a timer powers it, but a thermal switch would be better, set to about 80 degrees. When it gets warm enough, the tubing (inlet fed by a short feeder hose) will be folded back up along the fence out of the way. Outlet end is about six feet long with an elbow so it hooks onto the edge of the pool, and folds away neatly. I'll ad a pic if I can find out how to do so.
Nice video filled with good tips & trix. I'm setting up a solar powered pool heater right now and my goal is 30°C / 86°F in the pool. I'm starting with 250 meters / 820 feet of 20 mm / ¾ inch PEM hose in a flat rooftop setup. A 20V rainwater barrel pump (2,000 liters - 528 gallons / hour) will be connected directly to a solar panel, so it's a completely automatic system controlled and powered by the sun. No sun = no pump = no heating. Since I'm located at 60° latitude in the northern hemisphere, I'll guess it'll be some problems and math to solve along the way, but it'll be fun. Keep up your good work
Curious if you would get better heating efficiency if the coils were spread apart slightly. The middle tubes are really only being exposed to heat on their top halves. A slight spread would allow them to heat everywhere but where they touch the bottom of the enclosure.
@@sophivorus when the sun was out, yes. If you took the return hose out of the pool it would feel very close to the pool temp. But if you were in the pool it felt warmer. I think is can give you a few degrees if the conditions are right.
You know this was a good initial concept a few years back. But with what today's products are and options I decided to opt for a tankless 8 gallon electric water heater and water transfer pump. Keep in mind the cost difference was only $100 more to go fully electric instead of solar materials needed for the project. The interesting thing is is I now get up to 150° on demand whenever needed however I still have yet to see what the electric bill is. I had to go with the electric heater just because I never know what the weather is going to be and overcasting scenarios. I like the convenience of getting hot water on demand. Me watching these videos allowed me to uncover my new 2.0 electric water heater process and after an hour of installation it works flawlessly. I'm not saying it's for everybody but do your own research.
I would run the hosing into my attic which is hot as heck during July, you could leave it in it's original packaging even. I'm trying to heat koi pool during winter
I just finished mine this weekend based on your design. I was able to get about 480 ft in my 2 loops. I don't have the clear covers on it yet but that's coming. It's setup T'ed off my pool pump and I control the flow with ball valves. Total cost so far as of 6/28/21 is ~135$ that includes an additional 30ft of 3/4 rubber hose and misc fittings. Adding the 2 clear roof panels will add an additional 28$.
Is your pump 2 speeds? If so, I’m assuming you use the low setting and how has your pump handled pumping through that type of setup? I’m thinking about doing the same thing as you and was concerned about ruining my pump with the different load than what it’s designed to do
@@mikealex74 only a small portion of my overall flow runs through the heater. Majority runs through the factory 3” pipe. I’m guessing I divert about 20 to 30% through my heater. Overall it definitely helps.
I wanna see the pump you are using. I saw another video and the guy throws a sump pump in the bottom of the pool. I think the pump would be a tripping and entanglement hazard, so I'd like to have pump outside with only the lines going in the pool. nice video. Looks like a fun project with your son and it's awesome the things you are teaching him.
If you fill the panel with water, it will heat the water in the hoses more, due to higher conductivity, but you also want to make sure it's sealed so water vapor can't escape. (Also will want to use a bladder to handle expansion from heating.) So the water around the tubes can hold more energy, and keep the pool heated later in the night, and you can set up an automatic switch to turn on and off based on the temperature of the water in the system, so it never cools the pool. With the water around the tubes, you can also use mirrors to add more heat, with less concern of causing any damage.
The Temperature change is almost irrelevant, as it the total heat input that matters i.e temperature change (DeltaT) x volume (m3), slow the pump increase the temp, end up with the same total heat input. The REAL question is how long does it take to raise the POOL by 1°, and what is the volume of the pool?
Back in the mid seventies my Dad made a solar heater for the pool. He took old boiler radiator pipes and enclosed them between the garage rafters and covered them with installing boards. It really made a difference in the temperatures of the pool water.
That is smart. Newer smart homes with pools tie the pool heater and water heater into the AC heatpump. When generate heat when you're trying to get rid of it somewhere else.
So everyone talks about 120 degrees warmer water that you can get out of this “heater “ but this is only for a few minutes and then temperature will drop- so are you really warming up your pool ? Great build on your pool. Very impressed that you went that route 👍
This worked like a charm for a 3,000 gal above ground pool, video is much appreciated. Scalded my hand once we got the pump properly primed and first jet of water came out, so word of warning. Not sure how long it will last, or if it was the right choice, but went with Everbilt 1/4 HP 2-in-1 Utility Pump UTA02510. Wife is happy with just one panel but tempted to daisy chain a few more on the garage roof to see how long into the winter we can go here in northern California. Yes it cost more than $50, and requires some extra effort to make it look "tidy", but friends and neighbors are impressed and appreciating results, as are we.
I built similar set up with copper. I found the first few feet heated water to temp and the majority of the pipe could not absorb any heat. I went with a 2 inch pipe on top of frame work for more heat transfer. Hot plastic leaches toxins as well. Experiment with lower flow got hotter but put way less heat into pool. Higher flow rate would capture more heat.
surprising it really made a difference in the water temperature. it took 2 days of heating up because of cloudy days but once the sun stayed on it for a few hours straight it began to work.
Something everybody that’s into this will want to be aware of, is the concept of ‘thermo-syphon’ - you put an insulated storage tank between your panel and your hot tub - you mount your storage tank above both of them - you leave flow off to the hot tub - water comes off the bottom of the storage tank (where the water is coldest) circulates to the inlet of the heater - the heater outlet goes to the top of the hot water tank - it just keeps circulating on its own until the water at the top is same as the bottom - then it will stop - the outlet on the storage tank to the hot tub should be 6” or so from the top - it will, of course, gravity feed to the hot tub
You need a different type panel for Thermosiphon(TS). TS is a very low energy process, and will only move warm water upward in relation to gravity. A downward turn will halt flow, and horizontal runs add only drag to the process so are to be avoided if you expect it to work. This panel is coiled so half of the tubing is flowing downward when the panel is angled to catch the sun, so it won’t TS. Laid flat would be pure drag and would also not TS. For TS, you need a panel with straight tubes orientated vertically, so the heated water can flow upward. The system you described, would not heat the tub as in a TS system the heat can only go upward. And if the water could flow from tank to tub freely, the tank being above the tub would allow the fluid to simply overflow the tub from the tank till it reached it’s own level. To TS from tank to tub, you would need the tub to be above the tank. But there really is no point to the tank, it just adds more surface area to loose heat, so best to just hook the collector to the tub directly and insulate the tub and cover really well...
@@rronmar ... for the typical pool they could just plumb into the existing filter system instead of fooling with another pump. A few T fittings and some extra valves plus a drain would finish it off.
@@rupe53 yep, I have done it that way myself. but will brought up Thermo-siphon without using a pump, which can also work very effectively if you follow the rules. I have used it in 2 diesel generators I have built(3 and 8KW) and some other projects, and it works great, with no need to provide for or drive a water pump that will eventually fail...
@@rronmar ... Onan was using TS on their water cooled units back in the 40s. It's also used on domestic hot water in many 3rd world countries where electric is expensive. Typically these are roof mounted systems.
I liked the video and the effort and detail added. One thing that is missing is the flow rate of the water. That Piece of info is need to determine the amount of energy being picked up by the system. Also, if you can put the water through the system faster you will get more energy into the pool. A good way to check your overall efficiency would be to get the the pool water to bring down the air temperature in the wooden box. The cooler the pool water can make that box, the more energy is being put into the pool.
@@tmurph247 The part that confuses me is the water coming out of the pool. You use like a pond pump?? That pulls the water out of the pool and connects to....... a hose? which then the hose connects to the tubing? But how? And is this all safe since the pump will be plugged in to an outlet?? Appreciate any advice!!
@@carrielockhart7 i have an above ground pool that has three water inlet/ outlet places on the outer wall of which I was only using 2 of them, one for water to the pool pump/ filter and then back to the pool. I use the third water outlet to feed a hose my external transfer pump which is situated about 30 feet away from my pool. (Yes it is plugged into an outlet but it is far enough away that there is no danger of electrical shock while using the pool) my pump is then connected to the pipe coils for the heater and then ran back into the pool over the top frame rail that holds the liner. Also I use a timer so the solar heater pump only runs during the hottest times of day If you let it run overnight because while it heats during the day, it will have the opposite effect and you will lose heat from your pool overnight.
I built one a week or so ago. I haven't put a clear plastic cover on it. It looks like that is the key. Mine is only increasing the temp about 10°. 65° up to 75°. Looks like I'm going to have to put a clear cover on it.
Plexiglass or glass. I will build one, i have an old sliding glass door. Thats what im gonna use. Just have to take the glass apart becuz its double pane glass.
I have explored solar heat tubes for using the sun to warm air during the winter. In those videos they spray painted the heat collectors mat black. I wonder how much of a gain you would get from less shiny pex pipe?
Good question. My original tar paper I used as backing has also faded quite a bit over time, so a good re-paint is probably needed. I disassembled part of this this summer for another project, so may not be able to test that though
What you should do is start in the centre of the coil with a 6inch (150mm) piece of your pipe. Put and elbow on either end of it, facing opposite directions. Then start winding two loops together this way you don't end up with that piece across the top of the coils. Instead you end up with inlet and outlet on the same plane and can pop out through the side of the casing.
Instead of having two single spiral coils, with an outflow pipe coming out from the center to the outside of each to complete the loop, you could coil each do these as double spirals, and then use a U connector in the center to join each pair of spirals - so your coils would be more aesthetically pleasing, and you could also use a flatter cover, or hard glass cover etc, and inflow.outflow would be from the outer edge of each spiral. Wouldn't use much more hardware - just two elbow bends in each center instead of one elbow bend, to make the U bend needed.
Hello, great work! What would interest me is if you have problems with condensation water below the plexiglass? I have also built such a pool theater and am now considering whether or not to attach a plexiglass. I fear the formation of condensation water, which would then not be so great for the wood.
You should've done a b4 temp of the pool and then after running for a few hrs a temp of the pool water. All these pitchers of water didn't tell us anything other than the fact that the water got hot in the hose. It would've been nice to know how long it took 77 degree pool water to heat up using this method. Your set up is by far the best I've seen so far and I think I'll be giving it a try.
Great video. Are you using your existing pool pump to cycle the water or are you using a secondary pump .If so do you mind telling what GPM or brand used ? Thanks !
I also have this current dilemma. We will not be hooking up to the pool pump, so need a secondary pump and do not know what type or what size. We plan on using approximately 400 feet of tubing in two separate coils. It would be the 1/2 inch irrigation tubing.
Great video. I made a similar setup during quarantine. You have some great tips I will use for my next build--roofing paper (vs painting the box black), and using your shop chair to uncoil the hose. I made a few loops, picked up the entire coil, spun it around a few times, lay a few more loops... not very efficient, I'm sure. Thanks for sharing!
@@atomisum6445 Wouldn't that block the sun from the pipe/hose? The point is for the hose to heat up from the sun. I'd think the rock and sand would reduce or prevent the heat from building up.
I don't know if you know this but you don't need a water pump for this setup. You can rely on the Convection siphon between Hot and Cold Water. As you probably know cold water sinks and warm water raises so as long as there are no bubbles in the system and the cold inlet is lower than the warm outlet. It will self-cycle via siphoning the pressure from hot to cold. great video btw well done
While your spot on with the science, the issue is the flow rate and size of the pool. His system doesnt seem very efficient for heating such a large pool. The amount of time it would take to change it a few degrees doesnt seem to justify the work and costs to build the solar heater.
maybe I missed it, but how did you connect this to your pool pump? Is there an adapter that will connect the big pool pump tubing to the irrigation tubing?
You could do that, but I didn't. I just bought a small (bigger) marine pump (like they use in koi ponds or fish tanks) and dropped that in one corner and that fed the heater loop.
I wonder if this would possibly work in winter. I want to circulate captured rain water in and out of 2 IBC totes, using the coil method like yours, to stop them freezing in the winter. I certainly don't want to empty the tanks every winter and waste 550 gallons of clean water. I have a Harbor Freight electric water hose pump. I'll soon have the 2 totes, side by side, with their spigots connected via PVC pipe. I plan to pump the water out of one tank send it thru the coils, then back into the other tank in a closed system. Even on coldest winter days, as long as it's cloudless, the coils should get plenty warm. I plan to add an electrical outlet timer to run the pump 20 minutes or so every 3 hours. What do you think?
you can buy things like this for about 150 but a 100 saving is always handy. i need to make one as i live in the UK and my sons paddling pool needs all the help i can get to keep it warm.
How is this for winter months or hot tubs? I have a inflated hot tub that I wanna heat. Instead running electric heat is expensive and use our wonderful source for heating in the winter months.
Me and my step dad did similar for his pool which worked pretty well... ideally but more expensive you want copper which quite literally is boiling water coming out
Check out the DIY Pool Build we built this heater for: th-cam.com/video/xiqEcp5LHLA/w-d-xo.html
@@101Sauske pl:
If you want your water warmer, you could always turn the flow off and let the water sit in the solar heater say 15-30 minutes in the sun then start the flow again. Maybe put the water pump on a timer to run every 15-20 minutes for however long you think it takes to go thru the water that’s been sitting in your solar heater? I don’t think a consistent flow of water would necessarily be needed?
Temperature is a measurement that determines the direction and rate of energy flow. If you want a cup of tea lower the flow. If you want to heat up your pool speed up the flow because by slowing down the flow you waste energy. As soon as visible light is absorbed the energy turns into heat which is lost by conduction, convection and radiation. Maximize heat transfer by conduction into the pipes.
@@alexcanfora4456 aewm
@@RCdiy I was gonna post this, but this guy knows. ^
I'm going to loop my pool water through my gaming computer, cool the rig, heat the pool, two birds with one stone!!.
U da man!
Nice! It would work to cool your computer, but not sure on it being enough to heat the pool, or even maintain it!
@@wolphin732 not sure if your a gamer because my dam cpu and gpu can make a lot of heat I’m sure I can heat a pool on a few hours of gaming haha
How about I run the pipe from my pool to your gaming settup, we both win
Brilliant idea I would if it would work my gaming pc water cooling still runs some heat out of it so could be possible someone should try it one day
I seriously thought Steve Buscemi started a DIY channel by hearing your voice! Love it!
FYI - i did this for an in ground pool. you dont even need it to be spooled nicely like this or anything.. just toss the black hose on your roof and have your pool water circulate through it.. wala.. you'll have a really heated pool in no time.. do it with the pool filter pump or with a different pump, it does not matter.. just noticed this was 2 years ago.. but if anyone else reads comments other than me, just know that it works pretty well for a large 6 foot deep inground pool in florida. and almost too well for a small jacoozy.
how did you connect a 1/2 inch irrigation pipe to the 2 inches filter pipe?
@@julienbo with a 2 inch pipe with a 1/2 inch tap on the side.. you can get them at home depot. or go 2 inch T, then reduce the 2 inch to 1, then to 1/2 or whatever.. just go down there and play with all the connectors, you'll find something that works
its just water.. not like your going to blow anything up..
Someone brought this up earlier, but you really want to increase the flow and lower the outlet temp. The biggest factor in heat transfer is temperature difference. You have a 140F chamber and the cooler the tubes, the more heat they can absorb. If I recall your numbers i think you had 77F in and 89F out at the lower flow which you thought was about half the higher flow. Lets say that flow was 1 pound per minute. 1 BTU will heat 1# or water 1F, so that would be 12BTU/min or 750BTU/hr. You said the higher flow netted you about 87F, or 10F rise, but at double the flow(2#/min) that is 20BTU/min or 1200BTU/hr. You may have a lower temp at the higher flow, but you are actually capturing more energy because the lower coil temp makes the panel more efficient. Nicely done, most people neglect the clear cover, and that makes a significant difference in how well the work.
Hey rronmar. This is great info, and now I have a question based on your comments. Let me begin with what I understood from your info... higher volume of flow, with a 2-5 degree increase is preferable to a trickle with a 10, 20, 30 degree increase, correct? So, my thought was this... if I have a 1 ft. x 30 ft. enclosure, lined with black tar paper and a clear poly top (super long, skinny box)... and in that box I run six (6) lengths of 1.5" black ABS pipe, back and forth like a radiator (giving me 180' of continuous run), would you think I could expect the target temperature increase of 2-5 degrees? Based on your math, is this a sound idea, or could I get even more or faster heating? It's not a money issue, so much as a sneaky space and durability issue. I'm not a fan of cheap plastic irrigation tube. Thanks!
@@matthewpeterson3329 you can get higher energy output with higher flow. Another problem with low flow and higher temps is that the hot box temp rises and the box itself sheds heat to the surrounding cooler air instead of passing it into the water(thermal rejection). At some point with flow increase you will hit a decrease in collected energy as the fluid gets less time to absorb. If you can measure inlet and outlet temp and exact flow rate you can find the maximum power production point by comparing the numbers like I described above. Most solar electric charge controllers track this and load the panel to the voltage that delivers the highest wattage output.
Heat transfer is about temp difference and time/flow rate which determines how long the fluid contacts the heat surface. Your real collection surface area in the box you described is mostly going to be on the side exposed to the sun. Unless there is room for hot air to circulate around behind the tubes the side away from the sun won’t contribute much. Another thing to consider is laminar flow. Fluid flowing thru a tube tends to stratify with the fluid along the inner wall staying there and the fluid flowing thru the center staying there. So the fluid against the wall gets real hot but acts like an insulating blanket(water in a wet suit) keeping the center tube water from absorbing. And that raises the skin temp of the cooling tubes and causes increased thermal rejection. When talking about transfer into water, turbulence is your friend. Especially for pipes that large you need to install something to create turbulence. Like a long strip of plastic twisted which will force the water to spiral up the tubes. I would try to install a turbulence creating device on any tube type collector. For that matter you could put a smaller capped PVC pipe inside the 1.5” pipe and get rid of the center of the flow that really isn’t doing anything for you anyway. Some dots/dimples of sealant or screws on that inner pipe would produce turbulence in the area between the two pipes and keep the inner pipe centered in the outer pipe. My ideal collector would be 2 plates with a mesh sandwiched in between to create turbulence in between the plates, set in an insulated box with a clear cover. A flat plate collector like that would not be able to hold much pressure. I experimented once with a sheep of thin aluminum glued to a foam sheet with a bunch of criss-crossed cuts(formed a bunch of pyramids) for the water to flow/tumble thru. It worked pretty well…
@@rronmar Awesome information, and thanks for the quick reply!!! I hadn't considered a flat panel system like you described, but I have some material at work that I could experiment with. It's basically a corrugated wafer that could be boxed into a wide, flat-ish tray. Good volume, good surface area and good churn... might be the ticket!
I am just entering the world of diy solar pool heaters and thank you for verifying my thoughts. I saw one in person and the owner ran it at a low flow rate to keep the output hot. But that is leaving uncaptured heat in the lines. Realistically, the black pipe is going to absorb all the heat it can from the sun and transfer that into the water, so it shouldn't matter if the output feels significantly warmer than the pool.
@@developingdaddy correct, up to a point. Heat transfer is about temp difference, surface area and time. If the flow is too fast, in theory you could leave heat in the panel uncollected. It is important to be able to accurately measure flow. Thats as easy as a 5gal bucket and a stopwatch. @ 8.8lb per gallon, you can then know pounds per min/hour. If you add in input and output temps, you can then figure BTU/min or hour. 1 BTU will raise 1lb of water 1deg F. It then becomes a matter of adjusting flow to find the optimal BTU/HR. You of course need to make these measurements under the similar sun conditions…
Not a bad build at all. Back in the early 70's I built a solar heater for my mother. She had a patio with a sink and cold water only. One day she said she wished she had a source of hot water. So I went to the local hardware store and bought five 8' lengths of 4" ABS pipes and some fittings. With short tubes between elbows, all in all it was about 393 inches in length. 4"Ø x Pi x 393" = 4,938.6 cu. in. of water. Divide that by 231 (cu. in. per gallon) comes to a water capacity of abut 21.4 gallons of water sitting on an asphalt shingle roof (slope 1:48"). Not a lot of hot water, but the Southern California sun would heat that water to pretty darn hot. Mom was pleased.
At the top of the two lengths I drilled quarter inch holes tapped with NPT 1/4" thread and installed 1/4" plugs. Their purpose was so the air could be removed and effectively make the system nearly full of water. Darn thing worked great.
How many gallons of water in your pipe? You said bout 400 feet of 1/2" piping. @400 feet of 1/2" piping that's about 4.1 gallons of water. With a 1" pipe you would have four times the volume for the same length. Like I said, this was back in the early 70's so I didn't do any temperature testing. But the water basically sat in the sun all day, every day unless mom used the hot water outside.
One thing you didn't mention was water flow rate, how many gallons per hour. With that information you can calculate the thermal gain versus the size of the pool, heat loss to atmosphere at the surface as well as how long it takes to heat the total volume of the pool. All in all, it's not a bad build. I wish I knew how much thermal gain I got out of my system. One thing I DID learn the hard way was to put an over-temp / over-pressure relief valve on the system. I blew out a pipe. Had to rebuild a small section and installed the safety pressure relief valve. In the end it was a great system.
I'd love to see a photo or sketch of this water heater.
@@CorinneJudge The solar heater was built back in the late 60's, maybe 1970. No photos exist of the plumbing. Somewhere I have a drawing but it - too - is so old I'm having a hard time finding it. I'll keep looking. But basically, in So.Cal. summer sun was hot enough to really heat the water in the black ABS pipes. ABS is not recommended for drinking water supplies.
The basic design was to 8 foot tubes with a couple elbows and adapters from 1/2 inch pipe thread to whatever diameter ABS. I think it was 3 inch ABS, not sure; was a very VERY long time ago. Even drawings are "work from memory". I'll see if I can find it.
The system in the video is 4,000 BTU/hr, since you asked.
I have a friend in the South of Spain and all of her hot water is heated via pipes on the roof. Like the idea of the sun heating the water for free.
solar hot water tanks are req in hawaii for years on new homes.. i have not put electric to my house water heater one time yet , water stays 120 + round :). same 2 panels with hoses on roof connected to pump on water tank
I made a round one of these about 20 years ago. It has been stored outside every winter and I’ve modified my design over the years. The first change was to make long straight runs looping at the ends like a racetrack to reduce resistance and the amount of bends. Then I went to a zig-zag design using male/female barbed fittings to reduce the system’s footprint and make it easier to drain out before winter. The original was 3/4” pipe and I added a few hundred feet of 1” pipe in the same zig-zag arrangement. This black pipe is super durable (you can walk on it), but I’m changing my design away from zig-zag and using tee fittings barb-female thread-barb to make the pipe run close and parallel and less pipe. If you have a retired clear solar blanket like I do, you can glaze over the solar panel to increase heat gain and prevent loss from wind and light rain. All this engineering is great, but as my dad once said “ to late smart” because I believe there a much easier and cheaper way to make a solar heater using a 2” heavy duty black roll-up Swimming Pool Backwash Hose - 50’ for $35 Amazon. Just lay the hose out or cut it into a couple parallel runs and glaze over it with clear plastic.
Just breezing over the fact that you also made your own pool.. lol. You're a talented guy!
I made my in ground pool myself as well. Been working well for 20+ years. It is my pride and joy.
"Do it Wrong Yourself" that was enough to get my sub.. Irony, I love it. I appreciate the no-nonsense video, top notch work. Backyard builder approved.
Looks great. You could also consider adding a thin layer of sand to what the coil pipes sit on, and then having two large mirrors on the ground angled at the sand to make the heat increase, like them solar power stations near Vegas maybe
Good idea, sand will hold the heat after sundown
Would you put thin layer of sand on top of tar paper?
Very, very impressive. I really liked your heat-saving techniques (the black paper backing, using an enclosure to trap the heat, etc). Really cool and can't wait to try it. And just like any good teacher, you made it look so simple. Well done!
We did this and it is AWESOME - thank you so much for the great idea!! We live in the SF bay area and the last couple years our pool has always been more on the "frigid" side. Within a few hours of setup and starting the heater we had 80 degree reading. It did cost cost a bit more than $50, but worth every penny 😀 Thanks again for the great idea!
Can I contact you to learn more? I need to do this for my pool!
Can you share the size of your pool?
@@jennzobel7630 40x25 kidney shape
@@sebaycarola thank you!!
8:53 You don't have to worry about slowing the outflow to increase the metered temperature. Faster flow through the system is picking up every BTU. Less loss of heat. Exaggerated easy of saying this... slow it even further to almost a drip. The water will be very hot but now it's sitting in the system giving it time to leave said system back in the air. Faster water will allow all the heat created to transfer into the water to get sent to the pool. Sorry if confusing.
Here's me doing this type of $50 DIY project:
Step 1: OK, definitely have to invest in this $400 table saw!
:-))
Welcome to the rabbit hole!
lowes does sell 2x2x8s....
Well what do you expect? A table saw is a pretty basic diy tool. You can't expect to diy things without tools.
Tar paper doesn’t get that hot with an inch of snow on it today here in Alberta, Canada!
Don't forget the miter saw, and a random orbital sander. Your wife will be grateful that you are saving money
Awesome build! Decreasing flow rate may increase the delta T but it won’t speed up heating the pool. Consider mixing a drop of boiling hot water to a gallon of ice water vs adding a half gallon of Luke warm water to half gallon of ice water. In both cases you have about a gallon but the Luke warm / ice water mixture will be much warmer overall. And in this case it probably makes zero difference but you might start to see higher losses to air around the panel as its temp delta to air increases, increasing convective heat transfer to the surrounding air.
Thats exactly what I was was saying in my head. To add: Higher flow would have higher efficiency of heat transfer on hot side.
And u both have zero clue what ur talking about !
@@chriskibodeaux9818 in this instance, the thing to do is run the water at maximum speed. The higher the temperature differential between the source and the sink, the more energy is transferred. If you run it slow you'll just spend energy heating already hot water. The faster the water flows the more it behaves like it's heating the whole pool at once.
@@JackRyanRobtics 100% false! Especially with solar!
@@chriskibodeaux9818 this is how heat transfer works. Heating something that's already hot isn't going to increase overall heat in the system. I've been doing this weekly for years when I make beer. Regardless of your source, you want to maximize the temperature differential to extract the maximum amount of heat from the source. In my case I'm chilling beer too achieve cold break using a counter flow chiller. You counter flow to achieve a high temperature differential across the whole chiller.
To clarify some of what others have said, there's a little science behind heat transfer and it may work in your favor. If the water in your coils is too hot it will shorten the life of the poly pipe, and also could be uncomfortable to anyone near the discharge. The most heat transfer will happen with the least loss with only a few degrees temp rise. This is mostly because the rise will slow down as it reaches ambient temp. IOW, something between 2-5 degrees rise (from in to out) is a good target because the rising pool temp will slowly raise the inlet temp anyway. The reality is most people need to increase their flow rate. The goal is to have a continued but slow rise. In tech terms that's called a differential. The other tip I will throw in is that on order to make an appreciable rise the sq ft of the solar must be about 50% of the pool surface sq ft.... or higher. Most people use a small panel then wonder why they don't see a difference. The reason is the sun only shines so long but the pool cools off during the other 18 hours of the day. Keeping the pool covered can also gain you an extra 5-10 degrees by slowing evaporative cooling. Some people say a pool cover is too expensive, but that's cheap compared to heating a pool by conventional means.
a "solar cover" (really, as you said evaporative cooling prevention blanket) is about 100 dollars and will last 5 years if you take care of it on a reel. 50% of the pool area is...rather large. yikes.
@@danielroden9424 ... to put that in perspective, the 50% rule is up here in New England. (I'm in Ct) The flip side is I know people who use a solar cover but need a water cooler to run on days when it overheats. (actually runs at night) It can be a balancing act to keep temps comfy.
@@danielroden9424 Unfortunately, Daniel is one of the few who is correct.
thanks..re.. if we know the flow rate,, ie gpm.. we could get a rough calc on BTU. temp doesn't mean much if we don't know volume..
...would you expect better performance by running the two coils in parallel vs. series?
I thought about doing this method of a pool heater but I was thinking about doing the fire heater, pumping water from the pool thru a steel tube slowly thru a fireplace and back into the pool. Be kinda cool to have a fire five feet from the pool while heating up the water. Plus the fire water heater would work on cloudy days as well.
Just right. Thanks for making this!
You will transfer more heat to the pool with a faster flow rate. The temperature difference won't be as high but the actual heat energy transfer will be greater. Higher flowrate will give you a warmer pool!
agreed on tis one
I've watched a few of these types of videos, and the common theme is that people don't understand the difference between temperature and heat.
@@billweasley1382 explain 🤔
so, sheets of corrugated plastic with small but many channels, with a top and bottom feed in/out would work better ?
@@z4zuse I use a series of something like this on the roof. Definitely works too well. Lol
The most impressive part to me was 2:30 the actual coiling of the tubing. However I don't want plastic being circulated in my water supply. Heat and plastic are an infamously bad combination. Doesn't really matter what kind it is. If it's on the market, it's going to degrade and leech in sunlight. Not just chemicals but microplastics.
I've seen other builds using copper tubing, which must be a massive price hike but would be a safe alternative. This is a wonderful concept that can be modified in countless ways.
Thank you. I will share this with a friend. I think it would make a great shade on top of her deck for her pool.
I wonder how it performs and cooler weather conditions... like 70s
A Brilliant video, thanks for sharing. I have just ordered a pool and, the accessories seem to cost more than the pool, so your diy heater looks a very attractive project. All I need do is wait for everyone to moan how cold the water is, then away I go.
I grew up on a similar system :) My grandpa put the hose on the roof, that was tiled with ceramic tiles. We had free warm water all summer 😎
Why would you need free warm water during the summer … it’s summer. Everything is already warm
@@jamesbizs It all depends on where you live and what part of the summer you're in.
@j p Because at night the Temps drop. Even in Florida and cools the water down.
I actually really enjoyed this video and I am going to share this with my friends and my not so friends.. n I'm sure they all will enjoy ... thanks n God bless
Nice build and test
We are having a pool installed this summer. Living in TX we can get pool weather into late October. I figure with a heater setup like this we could probably add a few more weeks in November before the cold weather overwhelms it. What will really be the test is using it in the Spring. I suspect we could start getting in the pool early April if we can start warming the water up with this in March.
Cool idea! Thanks. Might try building something like this next year.
I built my own version. I did some thing differently that make mine easier to deal with. I live in NC. All we need is to get the pool up to temp when we open it in April and allow us to stretch our season a couple of weeks in the fall. We do use a solar cover to help keep any temperature gain through the night. We don't want to look at the heaters all year so we need them to be portable or more portable than your version.
1) I made two 4'x4' heaters. Each heater has ~200 ft of 1/2" irrigation tubing. A 4x8 panel is way too cumbersome for me to move around by myself.
2) I added two non-swivel casters to one side.
3) I added a handle on each of the other sides.
I can roll them away when I want to store them. The coils hold several gallons of water at 8lbs per gallon. They are pretty heavy.
I run a 500 gallon/hr pump and get a 10 to 12 degree temp increase. It may not sound like that but I am doing a pretty good flow rate. My pool is around 10K gallons. I am able to increase the pool temp 15 to 20 degrees in little over a week, depending on sun and outside temp. If the tubing feels warm then you are not absorbing as much heat as you could.
In the winter, it does go below freezing. We usually close our pool at the end of Oct. and reopen it the first week in April. If any water is left in the tubing, it could freeze and split the tubing. You could take an air compressor, get a garden hose air compressor connection at any RV store, and blow out the lines. But if you don't get all the water out, you could have a problem. I plan on pouring a couple of gallons of RV/Marine food grade antifreeze into a bucket with my pump and pumping it through the solar heaters. I will flush the antifreeze out with water in the spring.
Thank you! I REALLY appreciate your approach - actually measuring inflow and outflow temps at different flow rates. Excellent. I built a coil heater based on a design by "desertsun02" using black-painted PEX tubing and he implied the temperature increase would be over 50F almost immediately! I really, really berated him for that bad science approach after I found my results were more like 4F (for a much smaller design than yours). He never replied. Coward.
What you have done is akin to "good science". I cannot tell you how much I appreciate that. Good work!
I used this idea to do a less-expensive (although less effective) version: running the tubing along our in-ground pool fence. The fence is about 60 feet on the long side. It took four-and-a-half trips around to get all 500 feet of tubing unwound & installed. I put the spool on a sawhorse so was easy to counteract the half-turn at the ends, and any other twists that arose. To save money, I used old 10baseT ethernet wire cut to length (solid wire better than stranded), but zip ties etc. will work. The water temp went from 65 to 80 in less than two weeks. In full sun, it comes out about five degrees warmer than it goes in (max temp so far here in middle Georgia has been about 80). One-third hp sump pump on a timer powers it, but a thermal switch would be better, set to about 80 degrees. When it gets warm enough, the tubing (inlet fed by a short feeder hose) will be folded back up along the fence out of the way. Outlet end is about six feet long with an elbow so it hooks onto the edge of the pool, and folds away neatly. I'll ad a pic if I can find out how to do so.
Do you have any pics, I am interested in seeing your design.
Great effort man. It would be good to know how long the pool takes to heat and what temperatures are you reaching in the pool. Thanks
It doesn’t work!
@@peterw6341 ok
Tar paper is super idea.
Glue down edges of corrugated plastic.
Will sub-surface pipe stand up to ultra violent light.
Paint pipe flat black.
I’m not sure why I’m watching this since I don’t have a pool and it’s the middle of winter and snowy where I live, but great video!
Great user name, and good videos for those who would rather fight than switch.
Nice video filled with good tips & trix. I'm setting up a solar powered pool heater right now and my goal is 30°C / 86°F in the pool. I'm starting with 250 meters / 820 feet of 20 mm / ¾ inch PEM hose in a flat rooftop setup. A 20V rainwater barrel pump (2,000 liters - 528 gallons / hour) will be connected directly to a solar panel, so it's a completely automatic system controlled and powered by the sun.
No sun = no pump = no heating.
Since I'm located at 60° latitude in the northern hemisphere, I'll guess it'll be some problems and math to solve along the way, but it'll be fun.
Keep up your good work
I am gonna show this to my solar class and will send people from my class to watch your video(s). I just subscribed.
Curious if you would get better heating efficiency if the coils were spread apart slightly. The middle tubes are really only being exposed to heat on their top halves. A slight spread would allow them to heat everywhere but where they touch the bottom of the enclosure.
I’m building this right now and wondering the same thing
@@rjmills126 did you try it? did it make any difference ??
@@sophivorus when the sun was out, yes.
If you took the return hose out of the pool it would feel very close to the pool temp. But if you were in the pool it felt warmer.
I think is can give you a few degrees if the conditions are right.
You know this was a good initial concept a few years back. But with what today's products are and options I decided to opt for a tankless 8 gallon electric water heater and water transfer pump. Keep in mind the cost difference was only $100 more to go fully electric instead of solar materials needed for the project. The interesting thing is is I now get up to 150° on demand whenever needed however I still have yet to see what the electric bill is. I had to go with the electric heater just because I never know what the weather is going to be and overcasting scenarios. I like the convenience of getting hot water on demand. Me watching these videos allowed me to uncover my new 2.0 electric water heater process and after an hour of installation it works flawlessly. I'm not saying it's for everybody but do your own research.
I would run the hosing into my attic which is hot as heck during July, you could leave it in it's original packaging even. I'm trying to heat koi pool during winter
You are brilliant!!! Thank you for the vid.
That was cute at the end when the girls said bye at the same time.
Great video. I made one with only 100ft of tubing. I'm only getting 2 degrees different. No shade and its sitting in the sun path all day.
I wonder if the heat retention in hardie backer would improve things? You can paint it black too.
Very cool,I'm in Arizona we need to cool our pools.
Awesome job! This is crazy hot water levels for the price
You could run your house hot water tank with this lol
If you like this video, share it with your friends. If you don’t like it, share it with your enemies. Very clever. I love it
I just finished mine this weekend based on your design. I was able to get about 480 ft in my 2 loops. I don't have the clear covers on it yet but that's coming. It's setup T'ed off my pool pump and I control the flow with ball valves. Total cost so far as of 6/28/21 is ~135$ that includes an additional 30ft of 3/4 rubber hose and misc fittings. Adding the 2 clear roof panels will add an additional 28$.
How much temperature increase are you able to get and how long does it take for each degree you can get raided?
Is your pump 2 speeds? If so, I’m assuming you use the low setting and how has your pump handled pumping through that type of setup? I’m thinking about doing the same thing as you and was concerned about ruining my pump with the different load than what it’s designed to do
@@mikealex74 only a small portion of my overall flow runs through the heater. Majority runs through the factory 3” pipe. I’m guessing I divert about 20 to 30% through my heater. Overall it definitely helps.
How many BTU/hr are you getting from it? I calculated from the video it's about 4,000?
so just say you wasted your money and time, if a reg pool heater is 400, 000 btu and this one puts out 4000 . no way this thing will do anything!!!!
Scrap piece of plywood for free.
- said no one ever in 2021
If you give them your wife as a trade.. I keep waiting for them to ask.
Nice Build, Good Job!! Thanks for sharing!!
Nice set up. Love your view at the end of the video :)
I wanna see the pump you are using. I saw another video and the guy throws a sump pump in the bottom of the pool. I think the pump would be a tripping and entanglement hazard, so I'd like to have pump outside with only the lines going in the pool. nice video. Looks like a fun project with your son and it's awesome the things you are teaching him.
Mee too.
Hello there, thanks for sharing this video. What kind of pump im i support to use. Any brand you recommend?
If you fill the panel with water, it will heat the water in the hoses more, due to higher conductivity, but you also want to make sure it's sealed so water vapor can't escape. (Also will want to use a bladder to handle expansion from heating.)
So the water around the tubes can hold more energy, and keep the pool heated later in the night, and you can set up an automatic switch to turn on and off based on the temperature of the water in the system, so it never cools the pool.
With the water around the tubes, you can also use mirrors to add more heat, with less concern of causing any damage.
Id use a raspberry pi with two thermometers, if (pool temp < desired) then if( panel tep > pool temp) then pump ON else pump OFF end end
How about using sand instead of water? I'm in the middle of making one.
@@atomisum6445 would light colored sand reflect more heat?
water around pipes will be hard to maintain (algae), prefer sand and consider weight😉
I thought about sand.
The Temperature change is almost irrelevant, as it the total heat input that matters i.e temperature change (DeltaT) x volume (m3), slow the pump increase the temp, end up with the same total heat input.
The REAL question is how long does it take to raise the POOL by 1°, and what is the volume of the pool?
Temp wicking factor Vs.volume.😉🤗
I calculated this based on clues in the video. It's a 4,000 BTU/hr system. It would take 33 days to heat up my 20k gal pool.
Back in the mid seventies my Dad made a solar heater for the pool. He took old boiler radiator pipes and enclosed them between the garage rafters and covered them with installing boards. It really made a difference in the temperatures of the pool water.
That's a good idea! Our garage gets extremely hot, and really hot part is along the roof.
That is smart. Newer smart homes with pools tie the pool heater and water heater into the AC heatpump. When generate heat when you're trying to get rid of it somewhere else.
Nice inspiration!! 👍
So everyone talks about 120 degrees warmer water that you can get out of this “heater “ but this is only for a few minutes and then temperature will drop- so are you really warming up your pool ?
Great build on your pool. Very impressed that you went that route 👍
This worked like a charm for a 3,000 gal above ground pool, video is much appreciated. Scalded my hand once we got the pump properly primed and first jet of water came out, so word of warning. Not sure how long it will last, or if it was the right choice, but went with Everbilt 1/4 HP 2-in-1 Utility Pump UTA02510. Wife is happy with just one panel but tempted to daisy chain a few more on the garage roof to see how long into the winter we can go here in northern California. Yes it cost more than $50, and requires some extra effort to make it look "tidy", but friends and neighbors are impressed and appreciating results, as are we.
Instant temperature probe would be a great addition to this video
I remember seeing somewhere they added a radiator type contraption into the attic of a home to heat water.
I built similar set up with copper. I found the first few feet heated water to temp and the majority of the pipe could not absorb any heat. I went with a 2 inch pipe on top of frame work for more heat transfer. Hot plastic leaches toxins as well. Experiment with lower flow got hotter but put way less heat into pool. Higher flow rate would capture more heat.
surprising it really made a difference in the water temperature. it took 2 days of heating up because of cloudy days but once the sun stayed on it for a few hours straight it began to work.
Great idea and I like the design!
Something everybody that’s into this will want to be aware of, is the concept of ‘thermo-syphon’ - you put an insulated storage tank between your panel and your hot tub - you mount your storage tank above both of them - you leave flow off to the hot tub - water comes off the bottom of the storage tank (where the water is coldest) circulates to the inlet of the heater - the heater outlet goes to the top of the hot water tank - it just keeps circulating on its own until the water at the top is same as the bottom - then it will stop - the outlet on the storage tank to the hot tub should be 6” or so from the top - it will, of course, gravity feed to the hot tub
You need a different type panel for Thermosiphon(TS). TS is a very low energy process, and will only move warm water upward in relation to gravity. A downward turn will halt flow, and horizontal runs add only drag to the process so are to be avoided if you expect it to work. This panel is coiled so half of the tubing is flowing downward when the panel is angled to catch the sun, so it won’t TS. Laid flat would be pure drag and would also not TS. For TS, you need a panel with straight tubes orientated vertically, so the heated water can flow upward. The system you described, would not heat the tub as in a TS system the heat can only go upward. And if the water could flow from tank to tub freely, the tank being above the tub would allow the fluid to simply overflow the tub from the tank till it reached it’s own level. To TS from tank to tub, you would need the tub to be above the tank. But there really is no point to the tank, it just adds more surface area to loose heat, so best to just hook the collector to the tub directly and insulate the tub and cover really well...
@@rronmar ... for the typical pool they could just plumb into the existing filter system instead of fooling with another pump. A few T fittings and some extra valves plus a drain would finish it off.
@@rupe53 yep, I have done it that way myself. but will brought up Thermo-siphon without using a pump, which can also work very effectively if you follow the rules. I have used it in 2 diesel generators I have built(3 and 8KW) and some other projects, and it works great, with no need to provide for or drive a water pump that will eventually fail...
@@rronmar ... Onan was using TS on their water cooled units back in the 40s. It's also used on domestic hot water in many 3rd world countries where electric is expensive. Typically these are roof mounted systems.
@@rupe53 yea, it works well, you just have to follow the rules, the biggest being vertical is your friend, horizontal is not...
I’ve used large glass windows, with garden hose, to get scalding hot water in AZ. Great idea.
What do you mean? I am interested in how you made yours as I live in Arizona also
@@Miranda-fi6sn basically the same thing but with glass panes instead of corrugated clear sheets.
@@varmintsniper2551 So like just winding up a garden hose, a long one, and laying an old large window pane over it?
Great idea. I wonder if there would be any difference with a mirror background.
Great idea and design. Would like some info on the pump and hookup.
Really awesome! Please what kind of pump do you use? Thank you
Your project is definitely a help. Many thanks! 🙂
Great experiment , thanks.😃👌👏👏👏👏
I remember him building his pool in another vid very clever guy 👏
I liked the video and the effort and detail added. One thing that is missing is the flow rate of the water. That Piece of info is need to determine the amount of energy being picked up by the system. Also, if you can put the water through the system faster you will get more energy into the pool. A good way to check your overall efficiency would be to get the the pool water to bring down the air temperature in the wooden box. The cooler the pool water can make that box, the more energy is being put into the pool.
It's 4,000 BTU/hr.
2021 Lumber costs turn a $250 DIY project into a $750 DIY project lol
I'm in the process of building something similar to this now, all materials including a transfer pump I'm in it for under $200.
@@tmurph247 The part that confuses me is the water coming out of the pool. You use like a pond pump?? That pulls the water out of the pool and connects to....... a hose? which then the hose connects to the tubing? But how? And is this all safe since the pump will be plugged in to an outlet?? Appreciate any advice!!
@@carrielockhart7 i have an above ground pool that has three water inlet/ outlet places on the outer wall of which I was only using 2 of them, one for water to the pool pump/ filter and then back to the pool. I use the third water outlet to feed a hose my external transfer pump which is situated about 30 feet away from my pool. (Yes it is plugged into an outlet but it is far enough away that there is no danger of electrical shock while using the pool) my pump is then connected to the pipe coils for the heater and then ran back into the pool over the top frame rail that holds the liner. Also I use a timer so the solar heater pump only runs during the hottest times of day If you let it run overnight because while it heats during the day, it will have the opposite effect and you will lose heat from your pool overnight.
@@tmurph247 Thank you so much, I can picture it now. Appreciate it.
@@envirojay Take the politics to Facebook boomer.
I built one a week or so ago. I haven't put a clear plastic cover on it. It looks like that is the key. Mine is only increasing the temp about 10°. 65° up to 75°. Looks like I'm going to have to put a clear cover on it.
Plexiglass or glass. I will build one, i have an old sliding glass door. Thats what im gonna use. Just have to take the glass apart becuz its double pane glass.
@@law35penn I will be flat out amazed if you can separate a tempered double pane insulated patio door glass!! good luck with that!
I have explored solar heat tubes for using the sun to warm air during the winter. In those videos they spray painted the heat collectors mat black. I wonder how much of a gain you would get from less shiny pex pipe?
Good question. My original tar paper I used as backing has also faded quite a bit over time, so a good re-paint is probably needed. I disassembled part of this this summer for another project, so may not be able to test that though
Question: Would suspending the pipe so it can heat on all sides make it heat more effectively, similar to an oven which heats on all sides?
What you should do is start in the centre of the coil with a 6inch (150mm) piece of your pipe. Put and elbow on either end of it, facing opposite directions.
Then start winding two loops together this way you don't end up with that piece across the top of the coils. Instead you end up with inlet and outlet on the same plane and can pop out through the side of the casing.
Brilliant!
Instead of having two single spiral coils, with an outflow pipe coming out from the center to the outside of each to complete the loop, you could coil each do these as double spirals, and then use a U connector in the center to join each pair of spirals - so your coils would be more aesthetically pleasing, and you could also use a flatter cover, or hard glass cover etc, and inflow.outflow would be from the outer edge of each spiral. Wouldn't use much more hardware - just two elbow bends in each center instead of one elbow bend, to make the U bend needed.
Just the channel name itself 😂, well worth a subscribe.
Hello,
great work! What would interest me is if you have problems with condensation water below the plexiglass? I have also built such a pool theater and am now considering whether or not to attach a plexiglass. I fear the formation of condensation water, which would then not be so great for the wood.
You should've done a b4 temp of the pool and then after running for a few hrs a temp of the pool water. All these pitchers of water didn't tell us anything other than the fact that the water got hot in the hose. It would've been nice to know how long it took 77 degree pool water to heat up using this method. Your set up is by far the best I've seen so far and I think I'll be giving it a try.
Good idea
love your channel name...i say it all the time..might as well do it wrong myself.
Great video. Are you using your existing pool pump to cycle the water or are you using a secondary pump .If so do you mind telling what GPM or brand used ? Thanks !
I also have this current dilemma. We will not be hooking up to the pool pump, so need a secondary pump and do not know what type or what size. We plan on using approximately 400 feet of tubing in two separate coils. It would be the 1/2 inch irrigation tubing.
FYI, this is a 4,000 BTU/hr system. I recommend you confirm this will be worth the effort for you!
We used to throw a coil of black pipe on the roof in the summer time . Did the same job .
Plastic breaks down in full sunlight I thought? Might metal loops last longer?
Very nice. I wrapped mine with saran but it seems to keep the heat out.
love the video, i like to know what kind of water pump did you use to adjust the water flow?
Nice design, I think I'll build one
Great video. I made a similar setup during quarantine. You have some great tips I will use for my next build--roofing paper (vs painting the box black), and using your shop chair to uncoil the hose. I made a few loops, picked up the entire coil, spun it around a few times, lay a few more loops... not very efficient, I'm sure. Thanks for sharing!
What if you fill the box with sand or put a few coils just under some sand and rocks around the pool? I'm in the middle of making two now
@@atomisum6445 Wouldn't that block the sun from the pipe/hose? The point is for the hose to heat up from the sun. I'd think the rock and sand would reduce or prevent the heat from building up.
How many feet of tubing for each coil? ID and OD? I'm need to build a water heater for shower. Hoboing it. Thank great video. Paul
I don't know if you know this but you don't need a water pump for this setup. You can rely on the Convection siphon between Hot and Cold Water. As you probably know cold water sinks and warm water raises so as long as there are no bubbles in the system and the cold inlet is lower than the warm outlet. It will self-cycle via siphoning the pressure from hot to cold. great video btw well done
But if you want to control the efficiency, you need a pump and be able to control the flow.
While your spot on with the science, the issue is the flow rate and size of the pool. His system doesnt seem very efficient for heating such a large pool. The amount of time it would take to change it a few degrees doesnt seem to justify the work and costs to build the solar heater.
maybe I missed it, but how did you connect this to your pool pump? Is there an adapter that will connect the big pool pump tubing to the irrigation tubing?
You could do that, but I didn't. I just bought a small (bigger) marine pump (like they use in koi ponds or fish tanks) and dropped that in one corner and that fed the heater loop.
I wonder if this would possibly work in winter.
I want to circulate captured rain water in and out of 2 IBC totes, using the coil method like yours, to stop them freezing in the winter. I certainly don't want to empty the tanks every winter and waste 550 gallons of clean water.
I have a Harbor Freight electric water hose pump. I'll soon have the 2 totes, side by side, with their spigots connected via PVC pipe. I plan to pump the water out of one tank send it thru the coils, then back into the other tank in a closed system.
Even on coldest winter days, as long as it's cloudless, the coils should get plenty warm. I plan to add an electrical outlet timer to run the pump 20 minutes or so every 3 hours. What do you think?
Awesome! So doing this! Thanks! 🎉
you can buy things like this for about 150 but a 100 saving is always handy. i need to make one as i live in the UK and my sons paddling pool needs all the help i can get to keep it warm.
How is this for winter months or hot tubs? I have a inflated hot tub that I wanna heat. Instead running electric heat is expensive and use our wonderful source for heating in the winter months.
Me and my step dad did similar for his pool which worked pretty well... ideally but more expensive you want copper which quite literally is boiling water coming out