That is so wonderful to hear, thank you so much! ♥ I'm so glad you enjoyed the video and I really appreciate the positive feedback as the channel is such a new project. Thank you again! 🥰
Considering that the convent was actually a home for girls that were sent away by their families and not a convent for girls that have chosen to follow a pious calling... I find it very probable that the majority of the girls were either introduced to sex by adults and other peers who were already aquainted. Deemed a shameful blemish and dealt with in out of sight fashion. When i was a kid there were other kids who had experienced sexual situations, proximity to promiscuous people, and sexual deviants. That spreads through groups of children and they tend to explore their sexuality in the toolshed. That's what I experienced, and didn't have shame until my mom found out and installed the shame and sent us to CCD. Catholicism training. To make my first communion as a shame filled suicidal 8 year old i had to confess to a priest. Blurted out the misuse of body and soul and ran out and away of the confessional without receiving penance. And carried Catholic guilt that dominated every aspect of human nature for the next 30 years. Whatever the girls said under interrogation without anywhere to escape to as they were essentially imprisoned already for their families shame, should be considered from the perspective of wearing those shoes. Hint, often families with early sexual exposure are cyclical and if they didn't break the cycle, they have given their childrens innocence as a ritual sacrifice.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm so sorry you experienced this, it sounds incredibly difficult. I agree with you, may of these girls would have been in similar situations, unfortunately, and their testimonies have to be read with that in mind. I hope you're doing better now and thank you again for your comment.
It's very interesting to see how Benedetta was dealt a relatively tame punishment compared to her accusations. Most people today would think that lying to the church and pretending to be a mystic would be dealt with way more serious punishments thanks to media's portrayal of the church in the past. The fact that she transferred the decision to the church whether her visions were act of god or the devil at the beginning probably saved her too, as it would put the church in a limelight since that would also admit that the church was fooled by a woman possessed by a devil the whole time. Perhaps the light punishment was just to save their face and burying the case hoping people forget. I'm not sure how influential her fame was and her family's wealth and power can change the decision of her sentence too, but it's something to consider. Lastly, glad you're properly crediting pancakes her role! I hope it's purrmanent.
I agree with you, it is surprising. The church then, just like now, would be trying to spare themselves from looking bad for sure! And her power, influence, social status etc must have helped. Thank you so much for watching and taking the time to comment - Pancake agrees he's a purrfect co-host, by the way! Fur real. ;)
I didn’t see the movie yet… furthermore your analysis about this historical theme was excellent, makes me think in many ways how religion, “mysteries”, feelings, relationships show life at this era. Thank you so much! And pancake continues with an active presence!❤
Such a great story!!! I love how you tell it too! Fascinating to think how gendered views on sex played an enormous role on her being absolved! In my opinion, she and her lover discussed the turning of the tides and decided together which testimony would work best for each one of them... But that's maybe me just telling myself some stories!
The film supports the version of two lovers, mutually attracted to each other across the class divide. I personally am not so critical of the film. The events depicted are not all based on the facts, but it gets through to some of the inner truths, doubts and questions...
That is true. And I think with historical fiction that's often the case, reshuffling and rethinking some facts to shine light on other issues. I personally struggled with the film though... the exorcist-inspired voice was too much for me lol! ;)
@@juliamartinshistory That voice of Jesus coming out of her made me think of a mental health issue, schizophrenia perhaps. I see that it can feel ridiculous for others. I found the character of the older abbess touching though. As a non-believer she takes on our modern sceptical stand. Anyway, I probably bore you with my thoughts on the film. Thank you for your great informative video!
I understand what you mean, and many people draw parallels between stories like this and schizophrenia! I agree about the older abbess, easily the best part of the film. And I'm sure there were those who were sceptical too, even though Benedetta had such a large following. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, I love to know other people's impressions! ♥ And thanks for watching :)
Haven't seen the movie. I think Benedetta, while convoluted and elaborate, was very clever and intelligent. My question is whether Bartalomea was her willing participant or her victim. We'll never know. Strange times. I find the investigators kind of comical, while understanding that lives were potentially at stake. Again, strange times.
I think Benedetta was a very intelligent person, yes. And it's frustrating that we'll never really know the details of everything that happened. Bartolomea's version, with all its issues, is really all we have. But I agree with you, I find that the investigators' attitudes are one of the most fascinating and weird aspects of this case!
Given the relatively beneficent outcome, it seems to me also possible that Benedetta and Bartholomea collaborated on this strategy and "struck a plea deal" as it were. ... Perhaps not as likely as that Benedetta was a Warren Jeffs type, which does feel like the best fit with all the evidence. But, the lesbian romantic in me wants allow a slightly more benign possibility to hang out there in the field of speculation. Imma remember that saffron-ring trick! Pancake is a very good cat indeed.
All we can do is speculate, unfortunately... I think she was very clever and, who knows, maybe today she would be considered mentally ill. But it's tricky, because the way people experienced spirituality and religion was so different then, so applying contemporary labels would be problematic, I think. There were so many mystics, and hardly anyone would question the reality of angelic or demonic visions. Another thing that makes it harder to know is the fact that Benedetta's version of the story is so incomplete. Frustrating for historians, no doubt!
There is no consent when there is such a great power imbalance. Benedetta was the Abbess, older than Bartolomea(idk how to spell it), and teaching her how to read. She took advantage of her position and that girl's deferential nature and lied about being possessed by an angel, therefore, it was sexual assault weather or not Bartolomea believe herself to be a willing participant or not.
Also, I really appreciated the presenting of Pancake as co-host. Credit where credit is due!
He just loves the camera... And he's got the purrfect catitude! ;)
you are my new favorite history youtuber!!! this was just SOOO INTERESTING. and i just love the way you talk and explain things!!!!
That is so wonderful to hear, thank you so much! ♥ I'm so glad you enjoyed the video and I really appreciate the positive feedback as the channel is such a new project. Thank you again! 🥰
Considering that the convent was actually a home for girls that were sent away by their families and not a convent for girls that have chosen to follow a pious calling... I find it very probable that the majority of the girls were either introduced to sex by adults and other peers who were already aquainted. Deemed a shameful blemish and dealt with in out of sight fashion. When i was a kid there were other kids who had experienced sexual situations, proximity to promiscuous people, and sexual deviants. That spreads through groups of children and they tend to explore their sexuality in the toolshed. That's what I experienced, and didn't have shame until my mom found out and installed the shame and sent us to CCD. Catholicism training. To make my first communion as a shame filled suicidal 8 year old i had to confess to a priest. Blurted out the misuse of body and soul and ran out and away of the confessional without receiving penance. And carried Catholic guilt that dominated every aspect of human nature for the next 30 years. Whatever the girls said under interrogation without anywhere to escape to as they were essentially imprisoned already for their families shame, should be considered from the perspective of wearing those shoes. Hint, often families with early sexual exposure are cyclical and if they didn't break the cycle, they have given their childrens innocence as a ritual sacrifice.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I'm so sorry you experienced this, it sounds incredibly difficult. I agree with you, may of these girls would have been in similar situations, unfortunately, and their testimonies have to be read with that in mind. I hope you're doing better now and thank you again for your comment.
OH. MY. GOD. I live really close to that convent yet I've NEVER heard of Benedetta. I'm definitely going to visit it as soon as I can!
What a coincidence! I'm so jealous, I've never been, but it's definitely on my list! :)
Such an interesting story. Thank you for your point of view and education
Thank you so much for watching! I think it's such an incredible story :)
This is great! Thank you!
Thank you so much! :)
It's very interesting to see how Benedetta was dealt a relatively tame punishment compared to her accusations. Most people today would think that lying to the church and pretending to be a mystic would be dealt with way more serious punishments thanks to media's portrayal of the church in the past.
The fact that she transferred the decision to the church whether her visions were act of god or the devil at the beginning probably saved her too, as it would put the church in a limelight since that would also admit that the church was fooled by a woman possessed by a devil the whole time. Perhaps the light punishment was just to save their face and burying the case hoping people forget.
I'm not sure how influential her fame was and her family's wealth and power can change the decision of her sentence too, but it's something to consider.
Lastly, glad you're properly crediting pancakes her role! I hope it's purrmanent.
I agree with you, it is surprising. The church then, just like now, would be trying to spare themselves from looking bad for sure! And her power, influence, social status etc must have helped. Thank you so much for watching and taking the time to comment - Pancake agrees he's a purrfect co-host, by the way! Fur real. ;)
This was fascinating, thank you!
Thank you! Glad to hear that you enjoyed the video :)
I didn’t see the movie yet… furthermore your analysis about this historical theme was excellent, makes me think in many ways how religion, “mysteries”, feelings, relationships show life at this era. Thank you so much! And pancake continues with an active presence!❤
Thank you so much! I'm so glad you found the video interesting. And yes, Pancake continues to be the star of the channel... ;)
Such a great story!!! I love how you tell it too! Fascinating to think how gendered views on sex played an enormous role on her being absolved! In my opinion, she and her lover discussed the turning of the tides and decided together which testimony would work best for each one of them... But that's maybe me just telling myself some stories!
Thank you so much! It's a truly fascinating story. Who knows, it's possible. I'd love to think so too! ♥
The film supports the version of two lovers, mutually attracted to each other across the class divide. I personally am not so critical of the film. The events depicted are not all based on the facts, but it gets through to some of the inner truths, doubts and questions...
That is true. And I think with historical fiction that's often the case, reshuffling and rethinking some facts to shine light on other issues. I personally struggled with the film though... the exorcist-inspired voice was too much for me lol! ;)
@@juliamartinshistory That voice of Jesus coming out of her made me think of a mental health issue, schizophrenia perhaps. I see that it can feel ridiculous for others. I found the character of the older abbess touching though. As a non-believer she takes on our modern sceptical stand. Anyway, I probably bore you with my thoughts on the film. Thank you for your great informative video!
I understand what you mean, and many people draw parallels between stories like this and schizophrenia! I agree about the older abbess, easily the best part of the film. And I'm sure there were those who were sceptical too, even though Benedetta had such a large following. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, I love to know other people's impressions! ♥ And thanks for watching :)
Haven't seen the movie. I think Benedetta, while convoluted and elaborate, was very clever and intelligent. My question is whether Bartalomea was her willing participant or her victim. We'll never know. Strange times. I find the investigators kind of comical, while understanding that lives were potentially at stake. Again, strange times.
I think Benedetta was a very intelligent person, yes. And it's frustrating that we'll never really know the details of everything that happened. Bartolomea's version, with all its issues, is really all we have. But I agree with you, I find that the investigators' attitudes are one of the most fascinating and weird aspects of this case!
Given the relatively beneficent outcome, it seems to me also possible that Benedetta and Bartholomea collaborated on this strategy and "struck a plea deal" as it were. ... Perhaps not as likely as that Benedetta was a Warren Jeffs type, which does feel like the best fit with all the evidence. But, the lesbian romantic in me wants allow a slightly more benign possibility to hang out there in the field of speculation.
Imma remember that saffron-ring trick!
Pancake is a very good cat indeed.
Oh that's such a lovely, kind interpretation! Who knows?! And yes, Pancake is an exemplary feline lol ;)
What do you think, Julia, was Benedetta a good actor and staged it all or was there an element of mental health problems involved?
All we can do is speculate, unfortunately... I think she was very clever and, who knows, maybe today she would be considered mentally ill. But it's tricky, because the way people experienced spirituality and religion was so different then, so applying contemporary labels would be problematic, I think. There were so many mystics, and hardly anyone would question the reality of angelic or demonic visions. Another thing that makes it harder to know is the fact that Benedetta's version of the story is so incomplete. Frustrating for historians, no doubt!
There is no consent when there is such a great power imbalance. Benedetta was the Abbess, older than Bartolomea(idk how to spell it), and teaching her how to read. She took advantage of her position and that girl's deferential nature and lied about being possessed by an angel, therefore, it was sexual assault weather or not Bartolomea believe herself to be a willing participant or not.
I completely agree with you, even if people at the time would have understood it differently.