For me, the most hilarious example of censorship was the refusal of the code to allow a drawing by Steranko of Nick Fury's phone off the hook (since it implied Fury was getting it on with the Countess). Steranko substituted a picture of Fury's gun in its holster, which apparently didn't imply anything.
Censorship is death to art, and Puritanism, whether it's coming from the Religious Right or the "Progressive" Left is always going to push it's own defined form of censorship. If I weren't feeling especially lazy this morning I'd look up that great C.S. Lewis quote about moral busybodies, but don't we all already know it by now anyways?
Thank god Marvel Max and Marvel Knights was a good idea. After no longer being a part of the Comics Code Authority. Good idea for Bill Jemas at Marvel.
The issue with the douche in the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was that it was a "Marvel brand douche." That it was a shot at a competitor is what DC was mad about, so Moore kept the douche joke but made it "Miracle brand douche" haha.
Paul Levitz freaked when he saw the fake ad for the "MARVEL Douche" in the Second Volume of LOEG: with the classic knee-jerk reaction, he had that entire LOEG issue pulped, thanks to a little giggle-maker, leading to the last straw being broken for Alan Moore, thus taking Mina and Her Gang to Top Shelf Comics for the rest of it's illustrative run. Thanx, Paul. Also: A Comics Code trinket; Marvel Zvumbies!! 🖖♾
One minor correction: It was in Volume 1 and despite being mad, Moore kept working with them for Volume 2 and The Black Dossier. The final straw that made him switch to Top Cow is the Immortal Love EP not being included with The Black Dossier.
I was wondering if there was ever any good that came from the comics code ( it had been a part of my comics reading life from the beginning -early 70’s to early 2000’s ) but I had never heard a “ turn-by-turn “ sort of reading of the code before! It is absolutely plain and true that this damnable code all but destroyed the trajectory of comics when it was put into place! The comics code is one of the most egregious pieces of censorship ( and arguably one of the most successful ) to ever be attempted! Great video guys! 👍🤘🤙
Huh. Has me wondering if the marvel 80s series GI Joe comics were approved. Like the second issue with Kwinn and his m60. Glanced while writing and yup. It has the code stamp. Which seems so out there since this comic was targeting kids and making toys from it. Yet realistic guns and they wander into death and torture.
So, the Comics Code Authority is why American superhero comics are considered "corny" and "kid stuff" and cartoonists thought inferior to fine artists? No wonder I grew up with emotional and physical abuse by art professors, family and friends for my comics fandom and chosen career!
It's amazing when going through cover galleries of old Crime comics to watch the logos just instantly change when the code comes in. Suddenly "CRIME does not pay" becomes "Crime does not pay" and you can instantly see how changing the logo would just KILL the comic. Even without any other factors, utterly destroying any graphic design to the comic titles could have murdered the crime comics.
That LOEG ad was allegedly pulled because the medical product was labeled "Marvel". Maybe DC was afraid of legal action, but I think they were just harassing Alan Moore because they could. The self-imposed Code is considered as a reaction to the social campaigns against lurid comics, but you have to also look at the participation of Richard Goldwater of MLJ in the organizing of the Code, who may have seen an opportunity to eliminate major competitors. Under the Comics Code, Goldwater's Archie regularly flouted the rules by putting a humorous veneer over images of Vampires and Werewolves, not to mention the salacious appeal of Betty and Veronica.
I have nothing left to buy from you Ed. (Also got most of Jim's stuff) Where can I buy wall sized prints of your covers from Hip Hop Family Tree? I want to frame them and put them in my living room. Seems kinda cheap to just get them blown up at a Kinkos.
Regarding Jim's comment at about 17:30 on Dell being the only publisher that didn't use the Comics Code, there are some other exceptions: The big one is Gilberton, publishers of Classics Illustrated and some lesser-known educational comics. They never used the Code, and occasionally published remarkably grim material, like the cave man in the early '60s educational title "Prehistoric World" directing that an older cave woman be killed and cooked. Other Code-free operators included Spire Christian Comics -- which licensed well-known characters like Archie at times -- and the folks who published the long-running giveaway Adventures of the Big Boy. Finally, there are many one-shot giveaways like "Dennis the Menace Takes a Poke at Poison" that were Codeless as well, presumably to cut production costs and because they weren't intended to appear on newsstands.
I once heard that even Wertham himself grew to despise the Comics Code Authority, primarily because it depicted violence without bloodshed; he took issue with this because it didn't show the realistic consequences of a brawl, and could potentially imply that getting into fistfights was nothing more than harmless, cartoonish fun-and-games. Apparently, Wertham also later claimed that he didn't want something as tyrannical as the CCA; supposedly, he only wanted comic books to implement a ratings system (sort of like how the modern-day ESRB rates video games). According to Wertham, DC Comics took "Seduction of the Innocent" as an excuse to enforce a number of asinine policies, many of which were tailor-made to snuff out their competitors. Now, with all that being said, I haven't been able to find the original quotes, so I might just be talking outta my ass, here. Edit: I just now remembered the one and only truly good thing to come out of the CCA (apart from the anti-discrimination policy, which was borderline revolutionary by the standards of the early 1950s), which wasn't even intentional on the CCA's part. Like the Kayfabe guys mentioned, werewolves were among the forbidden monsters. For one of the issues of "House of Secrets", the narrator claims he heard the story from a "wandering Wolfman", which was a reference to then-writer Marv Wolfman (Yes, his last name was actually "Wolfman"). The CCA mistook this for a reference to a werewolf, and vetoed the issue. The editor then pointed out that since the writer's name was indeed "Wolfman", they had every right to make a joke about it, which resulted in the CCA begrudgingly approving the issue, on the condition that the issue in question made it _crystal clear_ that "Wolfman" was his real name. This, in turn, resulted in the other writers protesting Marv Wolfman's apparent special treatment, and so the editors started to formally give everyone credit.
The Hays Code absolutely is the motion pictrure industry version of this. In 1934 Joseph I. Breen started enforcing the code when the Production Code Administration (PCA) was established and required all films released on or after July 1, 1934, to obtain a certificate of approval before being released. It greatly stunted film making, even addressing some subject matter was outright banned. If you look at some of the suppeosedly "risque" subject matter of many films before 1935, and then look at films spanning the next decade - you can easily see which subject matter was no longer being addressed. It's impact and effect can still be felt in the film industry today. One of the more infanous rules of the Hays Code required women, in love scenes, at have at all times "at least one foot on the floor" (in other words, no love scenes in bed). People could not be in a horizontal position if they were kissing. It banned everything from "drug use and perversion" to "lustful kissing".
TV had 'Broadcast Standards and Practices' a network department set up in the wake of the 50's quiz show scandal to ensure the moral, ethical and legal practices of the network - this led to things like not being able to show a woman's navel in 60's TV
lee did not "decide" to introduce a drug story line...he was asked to read that issue...it's absurd the drug used is a psychedelic and the character is some no named extra the series that really broke the code and showed where comics needed to go is green lantern/green arrow by oneill and adams speedy gets hooked on heroin the entire run within green lantern deconstructed the genre and broke pretty much every rule written in the code (except for language) and it came out in 1970....16 years before watchmen people who havent read the run need to pick it up...it's collected in a trade paperback the hayes code was instituted by the motion picture association and was created to stem bad press congress cannot pass laws abridging speech that any media feared this happening is bizarre as any attempt could easily be challenged in the courts almost every local obscenity law was unconstitutional but now we are back to the beginning...with local school boards and others having books removed from libraries and schools and of course...the first thing they go after is comics....cuz pictures are scary
Listening through this, one thing that's wild is that American feature animation was similarly stunted, stuck in a G-rated rut (outside of the odd underground project), and kind of a kiddie-pool laughingstock when compared to work being done in Japan and Europe (especially Eastern Europe) contemporaneously. But there wasn't an animation code. There was just anti-labor, anti-semite, friend-of-fascists Uncle Walt flexing his muscles under capitalism. There are so many different ways American conservatism will go about ruining the most promising of its artforms, it seems.
For me, the most hilarious example of censorship was the refusal of the code to allow a drawing by Steranko of Nick Fury's phone off the hook (since it implied Fury was getting it on with the Countess). Steranko substituted a picture of Fury's gun in its holster, which apparently didn't imply anything.
Censorship is death to art, and Puritanism, whether it's coming from the Religious Right or the "Progressive" Left is always going to push it's own defined form of censorship. If I weren't feeling especially lazy this morning I'd look up that great C.S. Lewis quote about moral busybodies, but don't we all already know it by now anyways?
Can we get a video on the Corto Maltese comics?
Thank god Marvel Max and Marvel Knights was a good idea. After no longer being a part of the Comics Code Authority. Good idea for Bill Jemas at Marvel.
The issue with the douche in the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was that it was a "Marvel brand douche." That it was a shot at a competitor is what DC was mad about, so Moore kept the douche joke but made it "Miracle brand douche" haha.
Paul Levitz freaked when he saw the fake ad for the "MARVEL Douche" in the Second Volume of LOEG: with the classic knee-jerk reaction, he had that entire LOEG issue pulped, thanks to a little giggle-maker, leading to the last straw being broken for Alan Moore, thus taking Mina and Her Gang to Top Shelf Comics for the rest of it's illustrative run. Thanx, Paul.
Also: A Comics Code trinket; Marvel Zvumbies!! 🖖♾
One minor correction: It was in Volume 1 and despite being mad, Moore kept working with them for Volume 2 and The Black Dossier. The final straw that made him switch to Top Cow is the Immortal Love EP not being included with The Black Dossier.
I was wondering if there was ever any good that came from the comics code ( it had been a part of my comics reading life from the beginning -early 70’s to early 2000’s ) but I had never heard a “ turn-by-turn “ sort of reading of the code before! It is absolutely plain and true that this damnable code all but destroyed the trajectory of comics when it was put into place! The comics code is one of the most egregious pieces of censorship ( and arguably one of the most successful ) to ever be attempted! Great video guys! 👍🤘🤙
Huh. Has me wondering if the marvel 80s series GI Joe comics were approved. Like the second issue with Kwinn and his m60. Glanced while writing and yup. It has the code stamp. Which seems so out there since this comic was targeting kids and making toys from it. Yet realistic guns and they wander into death and torture.
This is amazing. Thanks guys! I have always wanted to know!!!!!!!
So, the Comics Code Authority is why American superhero comics are considered "corny" and "kid stuff" and cartoonists thought inferior to fine artists? No wonder I grew up with emotional and physical abuse by art professors, family and friends for my comics fandom and chosen career!
That, but also an important part of the reasons why you think of American Superhero comics when you think of American comics.
It's amazing when going through cover galleries of old Crime comics to watch the logos just instantly change when the code comes in. Suddenly "CRIME does not pay" becomes "Crime does not pay" and you can instantly see how changing the logo would just KILL the comic. Even without any other factors, utterly destroying any graphic design to the comic titles could have murdered the crime comics.
That LOEG ad was allegedly pulled because the medical product was labeled "Marvel". Maybe DC was afraid of legal action, but I think they were just harassing Alan Moore because they could.
The self-imposed Code is considered as a reaction to the social campaigns against lurid comics, but you have to also look at the participation of Richard Goldwater of MLJ in the organizing of the Code, who may have seen an opportunity to eliminate major competitors. Under the Comics Code, Goldwater's Archie regularly flouted the rules by putting a humorous veneer over images of Vampires and Werewolves, not to mention the salacious appeal of Betty and Veronica.
Never heard this before very interesting
Fun post. Hope you do the before and after code comparisons soon
I have nothing left to buy from you Ed. (Also got most of Jim's stuff)
Where can I buy wall sized prints of your covers from Hip Hop Family Tree? I want to frame them and put them in my living room.
Seems kinda cheap to just get them blown up at a Kinkos.
I feel this one... LoL
Ed puts out such a high quality product it takes time...
@@landyalmond7742 No pressure there. I just want him to release a poster book or something. I really dig that art style.
Jim, Amputee Love was all that was on my mind...as soon as I saw the title of the video... LoL
Kevin O'Neill was told (reportedly) that his whole art style was in violation of the code.
fantastic content
15:30 Blind Alleys 🤣
I was disappointed when I got a collection of pre code EC horror.
I was expecting it to be more over the top gory.
Regarding Jim's comment at about 17:30 on Dell being the only publisher that didn't use the Comics Code, there are some other exceptions:
The big one is Gilberton, publishers of Classics Illustrated and some lesser-known educational comics. They never used the Code, and occasionally published remarkably grim material, like the cave man in the early '60s educational title "Prehistoric World" directing that an older cave woman be killed and cooked.
Other Code-free operators included Spire Christian Comics -- which licensed well-known characters like Archie at times -- and the folks who published the long-running giveaway Adventures of the Big Boy. Finally, there are many one-shot giveaways like "Dennis the Menace Takes a Poke at Poison" that were Codeless as well, presumably to cut production costs and because they weren't intended to appear on newsstands.
I once heard that even Wertham himself grew to despise the Comics Code Authority, primarily because it depicted violence without bloodshed; he took issue with this because it didn't show the realistic consequences of a brawl, and could potentially imply that getting into fistfights was nothing more than harmless, cartoonish fun-and-games.
Apparently, Wertham also later claimed that he didn't want something as tyrannical as the CCA; supposedly, he only wanted comic books to implement a ratings system (sort of like how the modern-day ESRB rates video games). According to Wertham, DC Comics took "Seduction of the Innocent" as an excuse to enforce a number of asinine policies, many of which were tailor-made to snuff out their competitors.
Now, with all that being said, I haven't been able to find the original quotes, so I might just be talking outta my ass, here.
Edit: I just now remembered the one and only truly good thing to come out of the CCA (apart from the anti-discrimination policy, which was borderline revolutionary by the standards of the early 1950s), which wasn't even intentional on the CCA's part. Like the Kayfabe guys mentioned, werewolves were among the forbidden monsters. For one of the issues of "House of Secrets", the narrator claims he heard the story from a "wandering Wolfman", which was a reference to then-writer Marv Wolfman (Yes, his last name was actually "Wolfman").
The CCA mistook this for a reference to a werewolf, and vetoed the issue. The editor then pointed out that since the writer's name was indeed "Wolfman", they had every right to make a joke about it, which resulted in the CCA begrudgingly approving the issue, on the condition that the issue in question made it _crystal clear_ that "Wolfman" was his real name.
This, in turn, resulted in the other writers protesting Marv Wolfman's apparent special treatment, and so the editors started to formally give everyone credit.
The Hays Code absolutely is the motion pictrure industry version of this. In 1934 Joseph I. Breen started enforcing the code when the Production Code Administration (PCA) was established and required all films released on or after July 1, 1934, to obtain a certificate of approval before being released. It greatly stunted film making, even addressing some subject matter was outright banned. If you look at some of the suppeosedly "risque" subject matter of many films before 1935, and then look at films spanning the next decade - you can easily see which subject matter was no longer being addressed. It's impact and effect can still be felt in the film industry today.
One of the more infanous rules of the Hays Code required women, in love scenes, at have at all times "at least one foot on the floor" (in other words, no love scenes in bed). People could not be in a horizontal position if they were kissing. It banned everything from "drug use and perversion" to "lustful kissing".
TV had 'Broadcast Standards and Practices' a network department set up in the wake of the 50's quiz show scandal to ensure the moral, ethical and legal practices of the network - this led to things like not being able to show a woman's navel in 60's TV
Anarkey.
In my honest opinion the quality of the stories went down the shitter after they got rid of the code.
lee did not "decide" to introduce a drug story line...he was asked to
read that issue...it's absurd
the drug used is a psychedelic and the character is some no named extra
the series that really broke the code and showed where comics needed to go is green lantern/green arrow by oneill and adams
speedy gets hooked on heroin
the entire run within green lantern deconstructed the genre and broke pretty much every rule written in the code (except for language) and it came out in 1970....16 years before watchmen
people who havent read the run need to pick it up...it's collected in a trade paperback
the hayes code was instituted by the motion picture association and was created to stem bad press
congress cannot pass laws abridging speech
that any media feared this happening is bizarre as any attempt could easily be challenged in the courts
almost every local obscenity law was unconstitutional
but now we are back to the beginning...with local school boards and others having books removed from libraries and schools
and of course...the first thing they go after is comics....cuz pictures are scary
All this censorship is based on anti-Communism, "Think of the Children!" and pushing Christianity.
Listening through this, one thing that's wild is that American feature animation was similarly stunted, stuck in a G-rated rut (outside of the odd underground project), and kind of a kiddie-pool laughingstock when compared to work being done in Japan and Europe (especially Eastern Europe) contemporaneously. But there wasn't an animation code. There was just anti-labor, anti-semite, friend-of-fascists Uncle Walt flexing his muscles under capitalism.
There are so many different ways American conservatism will go about ruining the most promising of its artforms, it seems.