I’m so glad I found this video. I installed a Sniper system on my 69 Camaro 396 and it ran like crap. After watching your video I did the same thing and installed the O2 sensor 10” from the header flange. I moved the sensor to 6” from where the header pipes come together and she started up and ran good. Thank you Thank you Thank you.
I am putting a sniper on a 454 in a very well used dually. The SMOG exhaust parts had rotted away leavening many open holes in the exhaust. I plugged the exhaust leaks until I can put on headers, etc. The stock distributor was a computer controlled one, but the computer was removed when I bought the truck. I opted for the hyper spark too. Everything you mention is right on point! Exhaust leaks are detrimental to the sniper running correctly
Thank-you for the video. Had a similar issue. Moved the O2 to the other bank. O2 started working perfectly. Went from 6 inch on the PS exhaust. To 12 inch on the DS. Idk, if it was a connection issue or flipping the wiring. But fixed now.
Perfect. Thanks! Have the same problem with the afr reading 35.6 and couldn’t figure out how to reduce the over fueling. Engine runs great but rich. Positioned the o2 sensor 6” from header flange not collector.
Just Watched a new episode of Engine Masters on the Motor Trend TX channel. A great episode on the new "Sniper 2", had some tuning tips / insights for AFR settings, great episode. Ken
Have a sniper kit for my 350 sbc in my 82 C10. Had a hell of a time getting the AFR to quiet down. Messed with it for 2 days. Completely removed the sniper kit and reinstalled it. Turned out I had a tiny crack in the header. One of those simple stupid things. Got it fixed then the head gasket decides to take a vacation the next weekend lol. Pulled the engine out and just rebuilt the the old tired girl. About to put everything back together this month. Fingers crossed, I'm ready to have my old truck back.
Thank you for all the info I’m going to go through mine step by step and see if I can figure mine out . I have a feeling mine is the location of my O2 sensor. Or more less the angle of if because mine is mounted at the top of my exhaust and not on the side of the pipe at a 10 degree angle like they said in there instructions. I have a rock crawler and I’m mostly at 1200 to 1500 rpm idling through the wood and it will do fine but all of a sudden it will hit 22 to 35 on the air/fuel mixture and die . Then has to sit for awhile before cracking and most of the time I have to cycle switch before it will crank
Just to cover your butt, check to see if the TPS (throttle position sensor) is working properly. It shows up on one of the 2 screens you can use to monitor you Sniper. Very important that it is functioning properly. We learned the hard way ✌ It's an easy fix if not working. Did a episode a few months back on that fix.
Did the same thing, redid the exit pipe routing, put the 02 sencer 2 ft away, and forgotten the 6 to 8" instructions, 2 years earlier. It was belching, backfiring, ect... Put another bung for 02 sencer 8" away. Good. Lost 6 weeks over that.
My chevy big block truck runs great and the O2 sensor is in the stock location from chevy which is at least 12-14 inches from the manifold. And the injector harness issue is very common but easy to fix with a zip tie. Good luck
My O2 sensor is also about 4-6 inches past my collector on headers and no issues so far. Getting to the injector harnesses is not that hard, but the fix with zip ties is wild! I guess I know the fix if it ever happens to me.
I had EVERY one of these problems with my Holley Sniper Unit. I had to send it in for injector repair. They fixed it under warranty but I lost 8 weeks of my driving season. However, since then I have replaced the O2 sensor every year. Not very happy with this unit.
Ours still isn't perfect. Gonna take it to a tuner soon. Just trying to get the car broken in and fix all the bugs. I suspect the new Holley Sniper 2 fixes a lot of the issues we've encountered. Nothing like paying $1200 to be a guinea pig...
Holley doesn’t have to do the injector connectors. Just open it up and zip tie or shrink tube them tight. I have minor issues with this thing, and can’t wait to get rid of it.
I guess I got lucky. I put a sniper on a 5.3 LS in my old 84 blazer. Just a hunting, fishing, gravel road rider. Sometimes back and forth to work. 3 years now. Now problems. Mounted the fuel pump in the frame rail and it's a noisy bastard. But other than that no complaints.
Thanks for the info! I’ll probably go back to spider injection, this plug and play is killing me. I have the atomic efi, and I have been digging for info since I installed it. No info for a work van, and the msd techs get snappier every time I try to explain to them. About 2 grand shot up a wild hogs ass!
went ahead and sub'd. you have a lot of good info in the video, but also a lot of info that's not 100% correct. 1. you should have 58-60psi fuel pressure. you don't have to have this.. realistically, anything between about 50-70 would run fine. the lower the fuel pressure, the more the injectors must compensate. and raising fuel pressure higher is how you deal with lack of injector size for a higher fuel/HP requirement. higher pressure = more fuel when injectors cycle. i do recommend a fuel gauge, however i don't recommend it on the sniper directly. i always suggest running an external reg with gauge on that. if you have a super sniper, put the pressure sensor on the sniper directly and datalog or use digital fuel pressure gauge. 2. the o2 placement isn't THAT critical. keep it towards the top of the pipe so moisture can't collect. your first location isn't what caused your lean condition at all. if i had to guess, it was a leak at that collector flange pulling in fresh air. tuners clip on their own dyno O2 sensor at the end of your tailpipe to pull a reading. my o2 sensor is waaaaaaay past that collector as I'm a single turbo 302 in my mustang. i have 2 collectors, crossover pipe, y to the up-pipe, turbo, then its about 20" from the downpipe flange.. runs just fine. further away it is, the safer it is from too much heat killing it, but the more delayed the reading is. the closer it is, the faster the reading, but less accurate if the pipes haven't merged well yet and the more heat it'll get to it. 3. the fact the 2 injectors up front weren't working makes me question if you had the quadrajet selected when you ran the wizard. injector connectors are a problem with the sniper. heat shrink and ziptie will correct the issue. you should have stopped trying to crank it when you saw 2 injectors not working unless you didn't know all 4 were supposed to work. 4. you don't have to wait until the fuel prime/prime shot to crank if you have your efi tuned for it. all depends how you have your cranking fuel and iac park set. 5. an intank pump is the way to go with EFI. but if you do run an external, make sure its even or below the tank. you just have to make sure fuel can be gravity fed to the pump. easy way to check, loosen the fitting at the pump inlet.. if the tank wants to drain, you're fine. - there was probably some other stuff in there i'd comment on but don't recall. i'll definetely keep watching your content though. videos like these is what helps everyone learn and betters this community.
further away from the collector more outside air it will read making it run richer it must be within 8 inches of the collector for it to read correctly and much less chance of a pin hole messing up the reading as well and heat wont hurt it heat keeps it clean it gets fowled when to much fuel or other gasses get introduced such as regular silicone (rtv only ) , fuel pumps come in push or pull, you make some good points but not completely accurate for the holley
I agree with the reply on the o2 sensor. Good tuners don't use tailpipe clips. Good tuners weld in bungs or ask the customer to have that done prior to tuning. I know people that tune with a tailpipe 02 and they learn what they think is optimum for the engine based off of their dyno. I've seen a car tuned off the tailpipe. have a wideband installed in a proper location and it change the measured ratio .7 points. Did it change the power? No. Bc the tune didn't change. But the air fuel it was tuned on was what the new one read. Not the air fuel the tiner thought he had tuned to. The tuners gauge was wrong bc of location. That doesn't parallel the sniper. Bc the tuner knew what he wanted and told the ECU what to do based off of his gauge. The sniper knows what it wants without the guage and expects you to hqve the sensor in the correct location to determine if it's actually getting its desired air fuel. Outside of that paramatwr and you start skewing the data and it isn't readjusting its preset tune desires bc it has a dyno attatched to it because it doesnt.
Yup. They may initially be cheaper that a real EFI system but it is just not worth it. The more expensive systems with throttle body injection can self learn as well, so no need to settle for less even if one is not able to properly tune EFI.
Get a laptop, I was frustrated myself fouled plugs on self tune, opened lab top shut of closed loop and press up or down at areas that are a problem, don't b scared of it, & wow what a difference
I only say this to help. I spend 7 days a week making my living supporting Holley EFI, Snipers more than others. Misinformation is the biggest thorn in the side of the Sniper. You can't really put the sensor too far down the exhaust within reason. You could put the sensor 4 ft away from the collector and as long as you had no leaks and no reversion from the tip of the exhaust it would read exactly the same as 4ft closer. The oxygen sensor does what the name implies, it reads oxygen content of the exhaust. If the pipe was sealed there is no way the oxygen content of the exhaust could change from the collector to 4ft down the pipe. You either had an exhaust leak letting clean oxygen in or the sensor was too close to the end of the pipe. You need at least 18" of exhaust pipe after the sensor to prevent reversion of clean oxygen.
That may be, but it does not change the fact that the quality control on this Chinese Holley stuff is incredibly poor, and people who install the Sniper stuff correctly have lots of issues still with parts failing and what not.
@@AB-80X I support Holley EFI for a living. The snipers are an incredible product for the money. There are downfalls related to cost but it’s the only way to offer such a cheap complete EFI system. This is the biggest misunderstanding of the Sniper. Sure there are issues, but what you get for the money is insane. Price any other stand alone EFI system with every sensor you need and injectors, it’s way more than a sniper. The fact that you can convert a carbureted vehicle to EFI for $1500 then have to dump another $100 in for a failed sensor or injector is pennies for the capability you get from it.
@@DirtySideGetsDown spot on, I'm on my 3rd year on all sensors, but when it wasn't running good I made adjustments, didn't let o2 sensor foul out, another thing is plug a damn laptop to it, throw that 3 inch away
@DirtySideGetsDown Hey just installed Sniper EFI and my system is not getting a rpm signal. The 3 inch monitor only reads stall. I have my yellow wire hooked up to the negative side coil but the monitor does show rpm signal
Im using a returnless system, even holley sells a returnless system kit BUT IM only at 58 psi BUT its running Okay BUT Im sure it would do a lot better at 60-65 psi so thanks for the tip.
I’m having so many issues with Holley I have no more hair hair to pull out. I’m at my wits end I don’t know what to do. I’m basically doing the same thing looking at every forum which isn’t the best thing but I’m desperate. Holly is very slow on the responding back to any questions.
None, what so ever. We did just change to the OEM fuel pump / sending unit and it helped. I suspect the exterior "pusher pump" was stressed in our application. Just another $450 I didn't need...... Ken
Great info and I appreciate your videos, I pretty much have gone through all the steps you have already described my engine does run good but it runs eye burning rich. That’s why I got rid of my Holley 650/and went with the MSD Atomic 2. I had my AFR setting at 13.5 based on the original factory settings. I moved it to 14.1 just to lean it out a bit am I going in the right direction, is there any harm in that? I have read that 14.7 is ideal AFR I don’t want to go to lean. I also have a situation after a warm start the engine knocks like crazy and refuses to start. I’m not sure if it’s a detonation or the fuel prime issue I backed off my fuel prime from 1.50 to 1.35. Do you have any comments on that?
There is a new episode of "Engine Masters" on the Motor Trend channel / app. Episode 23 of season 8. It specifically mentions O2 setting on the new Sniper 2 & in would think directly relates to the Atomic and/or the original Sniper. Also episode 20 of season 8 cover O2 sensors, good background info, basically they test 4 sensors and they all are real close. we've been struggling for a while with spotty performance and have just resolved that issue. TPS (throttle position sensor) was faulty. Our next episode is going to cover that issue. So simple to check and so obvious, we overlooked it and it really matters. Your pinging most likely is a timing issue / distributor. I'd resolve that before adjusting AFR. Just a guess on my part. The Sniper on the Cutlass install and run perfect, never an issue and changed that cars personality Big Time. The Cougar has been a fight from day 1. The engine perfect, but the Sniper has been a battle. I know more about Snipers than I ever wanted to know. Ken
Im having no start issues must be timing. Ive checked and re checked everything is corrrect. Tdc compression stroke 15degrees. Of timing pointing to number one cylinder distributor phasing matches 15 degrees. O clearance rockers timing chain dot to dot. Fuel pressure 59 60 lbs. direct ground direct switched power. Good body ground. I have a new sniper EFI cd box coil and distributor.. They won’t start it tries to. It’s not backfiring out. The carburetor is trying to, but not all cylinders are firing and I also noticed that only a couple cylinders on each side are warm three cylinders on the left side only two cylinders on the right side. This is a brand new 383.
Its all wired up according to Holley instructions correct. I have the whole setup there are no wires left that need to be wired up. You say tach so that means the new distributor is bad then? I installed a new distributor and Carb not efi and the motor runs perfect.. so tach would make sense but its reading on the hand held when i crank like Holley says it’s supposed to do.
All electric fuel pumps pull to some extent. When they call it a pusher that means they want it as close to the gas tank as possible and not in the engine bay. The electric fuel pump will work fine with your fuel sending unit as long as it's below the gas tank. Sounds like you were unable to get the fuel pump there because your gas tank is already really low under the car. I was success with the setup because my gas tank is behind my seat, 73 Dodge Power Wagon, which made getting the pump below the gas tank very easy. A little bit of pulling from the electric pump and after that it's a siphon effect doing the job.
We put one on the 442 and it worked brilliantly for the get go. The Cougar was 4 months of learning more than we wanted to know and is close but not perfect. Spending another $700 will make it perfect. Is it worth it...??? The new Sniper 2 looks to have improved on all the flaws but I'm not going to drop another $1,500 to find that out. But I will say on the Cutlass, it turned it into a beat, we didn't know how far off on the carb we were till we installed the Sniper. Ken
I’m having issues with my afr and I’m assuming it’s because of the placement of my o2 sensor. I have a miss understanding of where it should be placed and I watched so many videos of where it should be. Right now I have it on the collector. But you’re saying it should be past the collector ?? So 10” away from the end of the headers ?
There are variables, but my suggestion is 4" past the Collection Point, That's where all 4 individual tubes come together as 1. Make sure your headers are sealed properly / header gaskets, and no cracks in the tubes themselves. We even went so far as to purchase another O2 sensor just to make sure. The second sensor was installed on the other side of the engine and the initial placement sight was plugged. We have another Sniper video coming out in 2 days. Dealing with just the installation aspects.
Check your 12v source wire. You need a "Keyed" 12v source that work both while cranking and just in the on position. I'm thinking you source is just hot while cranking.
My car has the Holley super sniper and it cranks but won't start, checked all the usual stuff and can't find a the problem, could it be a bad O2 sensor?
I installed a spider today, it’s not injecting any gas, my pump produces 43psi I’m installing a pump tomorrow with 94psi would that affect the spider carburator? Should I install a fuel pressure regulator?
Sniper require aprox 60 lbs of pressure. Over pressure should be discharge back to the tank. The sniper has an internal regulator in the unit. I assume your talking about external pumps, not in tank. No matter, put a fuel pressure gauge on the entry line to the sniper. They are not expensive ($30) and provide peace of mind. And it may sound dumb, but make sure you got it plumbed correctly. In, to the in, I have made that mistake, as stupid as it sounds.
I contacted the Holley customer services and no tach is needed for signal, what I do have wrong is the distributor, the one that is in now is not compatible with the spider carburetor, I just ordered a new distributor I will keep updated
At about the 11 minute mark into you video, I dont understand when you said the car ran like crap with the original holley sniper on it, you had the o2 sensor already fixed, then you put on the replacement holley sniper and it still ran like crap and you said that you noticed that only 2 barrels was receiving fuel from the new replacement. You then put your original sniper back on and it ran perfect. You are basically saying that you did nothing to the original sniper that was not running well, when you put it back on it ran perfect... What am I missing??? Did you send your original unit to holley to fix the fuel distribution problem??? Did the original sniper all of a sudden just start working when you reinstalled it??? I am very confused what you did to solve the fuel issue... Please can you explain better that part of your problem...
Sorry for the confusion. we didn't move the O2 sensor till we tried the replacement Sniper unit, when It ran bad we then discovered that only 2 injectors were firing. In a last gasp / desperation attempt., we reinstalled the original Sniper unit and found success. We never anticipated the injector issue on the replacement Sniper. That threw us into a tailspin.
Thanks, but I'll stick to my 4150 Holley, It takes 1 hours to clean and tune not 4 weekends. no injector tickling noise no AIC whistling No 02 sensor or electronics to go bad without warning and did I mention my fuel pump only cost $40 dlls and 30 minutes to replace.
@@crnutsmotorsports a carburetor listens to the engine, a fuel injection system tells the engine what to do . I mean don't get me wrong I have two sniper units and they both been good for the most part but without warning II get problems two times I have to send them back to holley for repair and being out without a car for more than two weeks until they get back to me. electronics take a dump without warning and you're stuck in the intersection with the hood open You can't do anything to fix it. A carburetor will give you more warnings before it takes a dump on you but it will get you home to your garage.
@@crnutsmotorsports when I drive my car with the sniper unit there is always that little thing in the back of my mind if it will take a dump without warning or the fuel pump is going to go out on me .
@@hectorortega9131 that's why i have 2 fuel pumps.. they cost about $40 each. never had an issue from either though in 3 yrs. sniper isn't the most reliable efi though. term x is a much safer unit to have a more reliable daily vehicle. but efi can do many things a carb struggles with.. like cold starts, elevation changes, being able to change boost levels on the fly without affecting its daily driving fuel. and tuning efi can be done in a weekend by someone that knows what they're doing.
Sandserson Headers, 2.5" Tubing, Thrush Cherry Bombs, exact replica of a 1966 Shelby Mustang exhaust system. Saw it on a Steve Magnante episode, he went into great detail on this system. Printed off a picture, took to my muffler shop and said that's what I want. B&G Muffler did a perfect reproduction. $1,000
Holley's tech support was great and very genuine. Took a bit to get through but well worth it. My contact was located in TN. We discussed every possibility. By the time we were finished, I had a whole list of things to investigate. Wish you well!
Too many issues with sniper. I'm thinking, class action lawsuit. That self learn feature is balloony. To think I spent an extra 2 grand and get nothing but headaches when I could have stuck with carb, had a good running vehicle, and be 2 grand ahead makes me doubt my own intelligence..
That’s exactly how I feel ! When I made the decision it was efi for about 2k or a buddy selling me a wrecked truck so I could motor swap his 5.3 into my k10. I made the wrong choice
i must be a professional then lol. i do agree, "self-tuning/learning" isn't quite what people think.. anyone that's ever tuned on older efi systems understands what the self learn is and is quite thankful for it if they're street tuning. saves a lot of time.
I have done 6 Snipers Systems, 3 cars are mine and 3 cars for Family and friends……I will tell you this…..90% of all problems are self induced. These things are pretty much bullet proof. I have had to go fix a couple of friends who put them on and in typical Ignorant fashion they installed things incorrectly. I will have to say I have never had on produce anymore than 60 lbs of Fuel pressure……I would venture the guess your Furl pressure gauge isn’t accurate…….I am not a Summit Chinese brand fan so I have no experience with them. I always mount my O2 sensor at the 10” away from the end of the merge collector…..Always and I mount it strait up -10 degrees and alway passenger side. What cracks me up is the BS claims about Holleys Customer Service…….I have felt with these guys for 30 yrs on MANY different situations mainly opinions on what to use, What not to use an the occasional issue like a Distributor issue I had on a 572 Big Block Ford I put in a 66 Mustang Fastback tube chassis car……Distributor Gear was off by .025……I didn’t feel I should have to re-drill shaft and set gear……They took care of it and quickly. Great people to work with
This was our 2nd sniper, the 1st one went off without a hitch. I wholeheartedly agree about Holley's CS. They were hard to get a hold of, but extremely helpful when I did manage to get with them. I also agree most of my issues were self inflicted, a learning curve, shall we say... We started with an Earls Fuel Pressure Gauge and it leaked, the Summit was what was in stock. Both gauges read the same.
@@bigboreracing356 Did you find out why? My guess is he got tired of answering calls from the Ignorant. Not saying they are 100% but until I am proved wrong I will continue with them....Just ordered a new one yesterday for another project.
@@bigboreracing356 Just a guy who has had very good success with 6 of them. I dont give a damn what Steve Morris does, thats his business.............Who are you?
Ron, just installed my kit and can't get it to read rpm. The 3 inch monitor just says stall. I hooked up my yellow wire to the negative coil. This is installed on 350 sbc using boyd's tank with 340 lph aeromotive fuel intank pump. Any suggestions?
I’m so glad I found this video. I installed a Sniper system on my 69 Camaro 396 and it ran like crap. After watching your video I did the same thing and installed the O2 sensor 10” from the header flange. I moved the sensor to 6” from where the header pipes come together and she started up and ran good. Thank you Thank you Thank you.
thanks for taking the time to help all of us out here having Holley Sniper problems.....great job 👌
I appreciate that, very kind of you to say.👍
Appreciate the time you took to make a video to help others out!!
I am putting a sniper on a 454 in a very well used dually. The SMOG exhaust parts had rotted away leavening many open holes in the exhaust. I plugged the exhaust leaks until I can put on headers, etc.
The stock distributor was a computer controlled one, but the computer was removed when I bought the truck. I opted for the hyper spark too.
Everything you mention is right on point!
Exhaust leaks are detrimental to the sniper running correctly
Thank-you for the video. Had a similar issue. Moved the O2 to the other bank. O2 started working perfectly. Went from 6 inch on the PS exhaust. To 12 inch on the DS. Idk, if it was a connection issue or flipping the wiring. But fixed now.
Glad you figured it out
Perfect. Thanks! Have the same problem with the afr reading 35.6 and couldn’t figure out how to reduce the over fueling. Engine runs great but rich. Positioned the o2 sensor 6” from header flange not collector.
Just Watched a new episode of Engine Masters on the Motor Trend TX channel. A great episode on the new "Sniper 2", had some tuning tips / insights for AFR settings, great episode. Ken
I adjusted my iac valve worked great thank you. I was having trouble when stopping and going without stalling out
Have a sniper kit for my 350 sbc in my 82 C10. Had a hell of a time getting the AFR to quiet down. Messed with it for 2 days. Completely removed the sniper kit and reinstalled it. Turned out I had a tiny crack in the header. One of those simple stupid things. Got it fixed then the head gasket decides to take a vacation the next weekend lol. Pulled the engine out and just rebuilt the the old tired girl. About to put everything back together this month. Fingers crossed, I'm ready to have my old truck back.
We know the feeling, this Cougar has fought us tooth & nail. Everything has to be done 3 X's
Thank you for all the info I’m going to go through mine step by step and see if I can figure mine out . I have a feeling mine is the location of my O2 sensor. Or more less the angle of if because mine is mounted at the top of my exhaust and not on the side of the pipe at a 10 degree angle like they said in there instructions. I have a rock crawler and I’m mostly at 1200 to 1500 rpm idling through the wood and it will do fine but all of a sudden it will hit 22 to 35 on the air/fuel mixture and die . Then has to sit for awhile before cracking and most of the time I have to cycle switch before it will crank
Just to cover your butt, check to see if the TPS (throttle position sensor) is working properly. It shows up on one of the 2 screens you can use to monitor you Sniper. Very important that it is functioning properly. We learned the hard way ✌ It's an easy fix if not working. Did a episode a few months back on that fix.
Did the same thing, redid the exit pipe routing, put the 02 sencer 2 ft away, and forgotten the 6 to 8" instructions, 2 years earlier. It was belching, backfiring, ect... Put another bung for 02 sencer 8" away. Good. Lost 6 weeks over that.
My chevy big block truck runs great and the O2 sensor is in the stock location from chevy which is at least 12-14 inches from the manifold. And the injector harness issue is very common but easy to fix with a zip tie. Good luck
Thanks for the info, Ken
My O2 sensor is also about 4-6 inches past my collector on headers and no issues so far. Getting to the injector harnesses is not that hard, but the fix with zip ties is wild! I guess I know the fix if it ever happens to me.
Are you saying to zip tie the wires together, so they don't come loose?
I had EVERY one of these problems with my Holley Sniper Unit. I had to send it in for injector repair. They fixed it under warranty but I lost 8 weeks of my driving season. However, since then I have replaced the O2 sensor every year. Not very happy with this unit.
Ours still isn't perfect. Gonna take it to a tuner soon. Just trying to get the car broken in and fix all the bugs. I suspect the new Holley Sniper 2 fixes a lot of the issues we've encountered. Nothing like paying $1200 to be a guinea pig...
Holley doesn’t have to do the injector connectors. Just open it up and zip tie or shrink tube them tight. I have minor issues with this thing, and can’t wait to get rid of it.
Thanks for the video, solved my problem after months of the same issue 👍
Glad we could help, kicked our ass for months too 😃
thanks... my O2 was on passenger side at 2 inches from flange.... driverside is at 5 inches..
I guess I got lucky. I put a sniper on a 5.3 LS in my old 84 blazer. Just a hunting, fishing, gravel road rider. Sometimes back and forth to work.
3 years now. Now problems. Mounted the fuel pump in the frame rail and it's a noisy bastard. But other than that no complaints.
You could always get a controller for the pump. Slow it down when it does not need to work hard.
Thanks for the info! I’ll probably go back to spider injection, this plug and play is killing me. I have the atomic efi, and I have been digging for info since I installed it. No info for a work van, and the msd techs get snappier every time I try to explain to them. About 2 grand shot up a wild hogs ass!
GREAT VIDEO SIR !!
went ahead and sub'd. you have a lot of good info in the video, but also a lot of info that's not 100% correct.
1. you should have 58-60psi fuel pressure. you don't have to have this.. realistically, anything between about 50-70 would run fine. the lower the fuel pressure, the more the injectors must compensate. and raising fuel pressure higher is how you deal with lack of injector size for a higher fuel/HP requirement. higher pressure = more fuel when injectors cycle. i do recommend a fuel gauge, however i don't recommend it on the sniper directly. i always suggest running an external reg with gauge on that. if you have a super sniper, put the pressure sensor on the sniper directly and datalog or use digital fuel pressure gauge.
2. the o2 placement isn't THAT critical. keep it towards the top of the pipe so moisture can't collect. your first location isn't what caused your lean condition at all. if i had to guess, it was a leak at that collector flange pulling in fresh air. tuners clip on their own dyno O2 sensor at the end of your tailpipe to pull a reading. my o2 sensor is waaaaaaay past that collector as I'm a single turbo 302 in my mustang. i have 2 collectors, crossover pipe, y to the up-pipe, turbo, then its about 20" from the downpipe flange.. runs just fine. further away it is, the safer it is from too much heat killing it, but the more delayed the reading is. the closer it is, the faster the reading, but less accurate if the pipes haven't merged well yet and the more heat it'll get to it.
3. the fact the 2 injectors up front weren't working makes me question if you had the quadrajet selected when you ran the wizard. injector connectors are a problem with the sniper. heat shrink and ziptie will correct the issue. you should have stopped trying to crank it when you saw 2 injectors not working unless you didn't know all 4 were supposed to work.
4. you don't have to wait until the fuel prime/prime shot to crank if you have your efi tuned for it. all depends how you have your cranking fuel and iac park set.
5. an intank pump is the way to go with EFI. but if you do run an external, make sure its even or below the tank. you just have to make sure fuel can be gravity fed to the pump. easy way to check, loosen the fitting at the pump inlet.. if the tank wants to drain, you're fine.
- there was probably some other stuff in there i'd comment on but don't recall. i'll definetely keep watching your content though. videos like these is what helps everyone learn and betters this community.
further away from the collector more outside air it will read making it run richer it must be within 8 inches of the collector for it to read correctly and much less chance of a pin hole messing up the reading as well and heat wont hurt it heat keeps it clean it gets fowled when to much fuel or other gasses get introduced such as regular silicone (rtv only ) , fuel pumps come in push or pull, you make some good points but not completely accurate for the holley
I agree with the reply on the o2 sensor. Good tuners don't use tailpipe clips. Good tuners weld in bungs or ask the customer to have that done prior to tuning. I know people that tune with a tailpipe 02 and they learn what they think is optimum for the engine based off of their dyno. I've seen a car tuned off the tailpipe. have a wideband installed in a proper location and it change the measured ratio .7 points. Did it change the power? No. Bc the tune didn't change. But the air fuel it was tuned on was what the new one read. Not the air fuel the tiner thought he had tuned to. The tuners gauge was wrong bc of location.
That doesn't parallel the sniper. Bc the tuner knew what he wanted and told the ECU what to do based off of his gauge. The sniper knows what it wants without the guage and expects you to hqve the sensor in the correct location to determine if it's actually getting its desired air fuel. Outside of that paramatwr and you start skewing the data and it isn't readjusting its preset tune desires bc it has a dyno attatched to it because it doesnt.
Great information
My holley sniper efi nothing but headaches would recommend it
Yup. They may initially be cheaper that a real EFI system but it is just not worth it.
The more expensive systems with throttle body injection can self learn as well, so no need to settle for less even if one is not able to properly tune EFI.
Get a laptop, I was frustrated myself fouled plugs on self tune, opened lab top shut of closed loop and press up or down at areas that are a problem, don't b scared of it, & wow what a difference
Bad Kitty is getting there!
Coming together nicely, all the details take time.
I only say this to help. I spend 7 days a week making my living supporting Holley EFI, Snipers more than others. Misinformation is the biggest thorn in the side of the Sniper. You can't really put the sensor too far down the exhaust within reason. You could put the sensor 4 ft away from the collector and as long as you had no leaks and no reversion from the tip of the exhaust it would read exactly the same as 4ft closer. The oxygen sensor does what the name implies, it reads oxygen content of the exhaust. If the pipe was sealed there is no way the oxygen content of the exhaust could change from the collector to 4ft down the pipe. You either had an exhaust leak letting clean oxygen in or the sensor was too close to the end of the pipe. You need at least 18" of exhaust pipe after the sensor to prevent reversion of clean oxygen.
Point well taken
That may be, but it does not change the fact that the quality control on this Chinese Holley stuff is incredibly poor, and people who install the Sniper stuff correctly have lots of issues still with parts failing and what not.
@@AB-80X I support Holley EFI for a living. The snipers are an incredible product for the money. There are downfalls related to cost but it’s the only way to offer such a cheap complete EFI system. This is the biggest misunderstanding of the Sniper. Sure there are issues, but what you get for the money is insane. Price any other stand alone EFI system with every sensor you need and injectors, it’s way more than a sniper. The fact that you can convert a carbureted vehicle to EFI for $1500 then have to dump another $100 in for a failed sensor or injector is pennies for the capability you get from it.
@@DirtySideGetsDown spot on, I'm on my 3rd year on all sensors, but when it wasn't running good I made adjustments, didn't let o2 sensor foul out, another thing is plug a damn laptop to it, throw that 3 inch away
@DirtySideGetsDown Hey just installed Sniper EFI and my system is not getting a rpm signal. The 3 inch monitor only reads stall. I have my yellow wire hooked up to the negative side coil but the monitor does show rpm signal
Im using a returnless system, even holley sells a returnless system kit BUT IM only at 58 psi BUT its running Okay BUT Im sure it would do a lot better at 60-65 psi so thanks for the tip.
I uninstalled my Holley Sniper eFI and Hyperspark system and went back to simple , trouble free carburetor. I fell for the hype!
I’m having so many issues with Holley I have no more hair hair to pull out. I’m at my wits end I don’t know what to do. I’m basically doing the same thing looking at every forum which isn’t the best thing but I’m desperate. Holly is very slow on the responding back to any questions.
Thanks for the video. Any issues with starting after the car is warmed up?
None, what so ever. We did just change to the OEM fuel pump / sending unit and it helped. I suspect the exterior "pusher pump" was stressed in our application. Just another $450 I didn't need...... Ken
Great info and I appreciate your videos, I pretty much have gone through all the steps you have already described my engine does run good but it runs eye burning rich. That’s why I got rid of my Holley 650/and went with the MSD Atomic 2. I had my AFR setting at 13.5 based on the original factory settings. I moved it to 14.1 just to lean it out a bit am I going in the right direction, is there any harm in that? I have read that 14.7 is ideal AFR I don’t want to go to lean.
I also have a situation after a warm start the engine knocks like crazy and refuses to start. I’m not sure if it’s a detonation or the fuel prime issue I backed off my fuel prime from 1.50 to 1.35. Do you have any comments on that?
There is a new episode of "Engine Masters" on the Motor Trend channel / app. Episode 23 of season 8. It specifically mentions O2 setting on the new Sniper 2 & in would think directly relates to the Atomic and/or the original Sniper. Also episode 20 of season 8 cover O2 sensors, good background info, basically they test 4 sensors and they all are real close. we've been struggling for a while with spotty performance and have just resolved that issue. TPS (throttle position sensor) was faulty. Our next episode is going to cover that issue. So simple to check and so obvious, we overlooked it and it really matters. Your pinging most likely is a timing issue / distributor. I'd resolve that before adjusting AFR. Just a guess on my part. The Sniper on the Cutlass install and run perfect, never an issue and changed that cars personality Big Time. The Cougar has been a fight from day 1. The engine perfect, but the Sniper has been a battle. I know more about Snipers than I ever wanted to know. Ken
Im having no start issues must be timing. Ive checked and re checked everything is corrrect. Tdc compression stroke 15degrees. Of timing pointing to number one cylinder distributor phasing matches 15 degrees.
O clearance rockers timing chain dot to dot. Fuel pressure 59 60 lbs. direct ground direct switched power. Good body ground.
I have a new sniper EFI cd box coil and distributor..
They won’t start it tries to. It’s not backfiring out. The carburetor is trying to, but not all cylinders are firing and I also noticed that only a couple cylinders on each side are warm three cylinders on the left side only two cylinders on the right side. This is a brand new 383.
Tach signal is my guess. No signal = no run. It takes four wires to run, pos, neg, tach, key basically.
Its all wired up according to Holley instructions correct. I have the whole setup there are no wires left that need to be wired up. You say tach so that means the new distributor is bad then?
I installed a new distributor and Carb not efi and the motor runs perfect..
so tach would make sense but its reading on the hand held when i crank like Holley says it’s supposed to do.
All electric fuel pumps pull to some extent. When they call it a pusher that means they want it as close to the gas tank as possible and not in the engine bay. The electric fuel pump will work fine with your fuel sending unit as long as it's below the gas tank. Sounds like you were unable to get the fuel pump there because your gas tank is already really low under the car. I was success with the setup because my gas tank is behind my seat, 73 Dodge Power Wagon, which made getting the pump below the gas tank very easy. A little bit of pulling from the electric pump and after that it's a siphon effect doing the job.
Great video!!
Very kind for you to say so
All those videos, with efi ,nothing bur problems, does any of them work ?
We put one on the 442 and it worked brilliantly for the get go. The Cougar was 4 months of learning more than we wanted to know and is close but not perfect. Spending another $700 will make it perfect. Is it worth it...??? The new Sniper 2 looks to have improved on all the flaws but I'm not going to drop another $1,500 to find that out. But I will say on the Cutlass, it turned it into a beat, we didn't know how far off on the carb we were till we installed the Sniper. Ken
I’m having issues with my afr and I’m assuming it’s because of the placement of my o2 sensor. I have a miss understanding of where it should be placed and I watched so many videos of where it should be. Right now I have it on the collector. But you’re saying it should be past the collector ?? So 10” away from the end of the headers ?
There are variables, but my suggestion is 4" past the Collection Point, That's where all 4 individual tubes come together as 1. Make sure your headers are sealed properly / header gaskets, and no cracks in the tubes themselves. We even went so far as to purchase another O2 sensor just to make sure. The second sensor was installed on the other side of the engine and the initial placement sight was plugged. We have another Sniper video coming out in 2 days. Dealing with just the installation aspects.
Thank you I’ll be checking it out
I’m having an issue with this unit it’s only firing while cranking and if it does turn on it’s at 300 rpms. Im stumped
Check your 12v source wire. You need a "Keyed" 12v source that work both while cranking and just in the on position. I'm thinking you source is just hot while cranking.
@@crnutsmotorsports Thanks, I’ll check that out
My car has the Holley super sniper and it cranks but won't start, checked all the usual stuff and can't find a the problem, could it be a bad O2 sensor?
Check tachometer signal. Even with a bad O2 signal, it will still run.... just poorly to a point. That and fuel PSI.
Good luck 👍
Awesome mate cheers
I installed a spider today, it’s not injecting any gas, my pump produces 43psi I’m installing a pump tomorrow with 94psi would that affect the spider carburator? Should I install a fuel pressure regulator?
Sniper require aprox 60 lbs of pressure. Over pressure should be discharge back to the tank. The sniper has an internal regulator in the unit. I assume your talking about external pumps, not in tank. No matter, put a fuel pressure gauge on the entry line to the sniper. They are not expensive ($30) and provide peace of mind. And it may sound dumb, but make sure you got it plumbed correctly. In, to the in, I have made that mistake, as stupid as it sounds.
I already installed a 95psi fuel pump and still no injection, truck starts with starting fluid but won’t stay on 😕
Do you have a tach signal? Sniper wont run unless its getting a tach reading.@@lifeshare9074
@@crnutsmotorsports no I do not, i will get one tomorrow, where do I plug it in? I’m sorry I’m asking all this questions I’m new to this
I contacted the Holley customer services and no tach is needed for signal, what I do have wrong is the distributor, the one that is in now is not compatible with the spider carburetor, I just ordered a new distributor I will keep updated
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you
At about the 11 minute mark into you video, I dont understand when you said the car ran like crap with the original holley sniper on it, you had the o2 sensor already fixed, then you put on the replacement holley sniper and it still ran like crap and you said that you noticed that only 2 barrels was receiving fuel from the new replacement. You then put your original sniper back on and it ran perfect. You are basically saying that you did nothing to the original sniper that was not running well, when you put it back on it ran perfect... What am I missing??? Did you send your original unit to holley to fix the fuel distribution problem??? Did the original sniper all of a sudden just start working when you reinstalled it??? I am very confused what you did to solve the fuel issue... Please can you explain better that part of your problem...
Sorry for the confusion. we didn't move the O2 sensor till we tried the replacement Sniper unit, when It ran bad we then discovered that only 2 injectors were firing. In a last gasp / desperation attempt., we reinstalled the original Sniper unit and found success. We never anticipated the injector issue on the replacement Sniper. That threw us into a tailspin.
Thanks
Thanks, but I'll stick to my 4150 Holley, It takes 1 hours to clean and tune not 4 weekends. no injector tickling noise no AIC whistling No 02 sensor or electronics to go bad without warning and did I mention my fuel pump only cost $40 dlls and 30 minutes to replace.
You have a valid point.
@@crnutsmotorsports a carburetor listens to the engine, a fuel injection system tells the engine what to do .
I mean don't get me wrong I have two sniper units and they both been good for the most part but without warning II get problems two times I have to send them back to holley for repair and being out without a car for more than two weeks until they get back to me.
electronics take a dump without warning and you're stuck in the intersection with the hood open You can't do anything to fix it.
A carburetor will give you more warnings before it takes a dump on you but it will get you home to your garage.
@@crnutsmotorsports when I drive my car with the sniper unit there is always that little thing in the back of my mind if it will take a dump without warning or the fuel pump is going to go out on me .
@@hectorortega9131 that's why i have 2 fuel pumps.. they cost about $40 each. never had an issue from either though in 3 yrs. sniper isn't the most reliable efi though. term x is a much safer unit to have a more reliable daily vehicle. but efi can do many things a carb struggles with.. like cold starts, elevation changes, being able to change boost levels on the fly without affecting its daily driving fuel. and tuning efi can be done in a weekend by someone that knows what they're doing.
Fuel Injection will rain supreme over a carburetor. The question is how much money are you willing to spend. That is the bottom line.
These units isn't nothing but trouble and a headache!!🤦♂️
blow true carburation way to go
what mufflers do you have on the car?
Sandserson Headers, 2.5" Tubing, Thrush Cherry Bombs, exact replica of a 1966 Shelby Mustang exhaust system. Saw it on a Steve Magnante episode, he went into great detail on this system. Printed off a picture, took to my muffler shop and said that's what I want. B&G Muffler did a perfect reproduction. $1,000
@@crnutsmotorsports thank you for the reply, the car really sounds nice.
My issues is is runni g to rich mine runs at 9.3 to 10.5 a/f i try going lower o. Pressure dont it dont likeme
Holley's tech support was great and very genuine. Took a bit to get through but well worth it. My contact was located in TN. We discussed every possibility. By the time we were finished, I had a whole list of things to investigate. Wish you well!
@@crnutsmotorsports found my issues my lock out on my distributor wasn't locking out and had a 60/40 in so alot more tunes and retime it
I pit the 100 back in so it fouled out plugs was the af problem
Too many issues with sniper. I'm thinking, class action lawsuit. That self learn feature is balloony. To think I spent an extra 2 grand and get nothing but headaches when I could have stuck with carb, had a good running vehicle, and be 2 grand ahead makes me doubt my own intelligence..
I feel your pain. I'm hoping in the long run, I made the right decision.
I’m going through same shit
That’s exactly how I feel ! When I made the decision it was efi for about 2k or a buddy selling me a wrecked truck so I could motor swap his 5.3 into my k10. I made the wrong choice
Holley's quality control is garbage. The Sniper stuff, their Chinese intake manifolds etc. just not worth it.
I feel your pain. I'm hoping in the long run, I made the right decision.
you must have a professional tune on ALL HOLLEY EFI SYSTEMS PERIOD, THERE IS NO SELF TUNNING ECU OR SELF LEARNING
i must be a professional then lol. i do agree, "self-tuning/learning" isn't quite what people think.. anyone that's ever tuned on older efi systems understands what the self learn is and is quite thankful for it if they're street tuning. saves a lot of time.
most problems with aftermarket fuel systems are fuel, grounds, and charging.
I have done 6 Snipers Systems, 3 cars are mine and 3 cars for Family and friends……I will tell you this…..90% of all problems are self induced. These things are pretty much bullet proof. I have had to go fix a couple of friends who put them on and in typical Ignorant fashion they installed things incorrectly.
I will have to say I have never had on produce anymore than 60 lbs of Fuel pressure……I would venture the guess your Furl pressure gauge isn’t accurate…….I am not a Summit Chinese brand fan so I have no experience with them.
I always mount my O2 sensor at the 10” away from the end of the merge collector…..Always and I mount it strait up -10 degrees and alway passenger side.
What cracks me up is the BS claims about Holleys Customer Service…….I have felt with these guys for 30 yrs on MANY different situations mainly opinions on what to use, What not to use an the occasional issue like a Distributor issue I had on a 572 Big Block Ford I put in a 66 Mustang Fastback tube chassis car……Distributor Gear was off by .025……I didn’t feel I should have to re-drill shaft and set gear……They took care of it and quickly.
Great people to work with
This was our 2nd sniper, the 1st one went off without a hitch. I wholeheartedly agree about Holley's CS. They were hard to get a hold of, but extremely helpful when I did manage to get with them. I also agree most of my issues were self inflicted, a learning curve, shall we say... We started with an Earls Fuel Pressure Gauge and it leaked, the Summit was what was in stock. Both gauges read the same.
@@bigboreracing356 Did you find out why? My guess is he got tired of answering calls from the Ignorant. Not saying they are 100% but until I am proved wrong I will continue with them....Just ordered a new one yesterday for another project.
@@bigboreracing356 That decision was made long before you came along.
@@bigboreracing356 Just a guy who has had very good success with 6 of them. I dont give a damn what Steve Morris does, thats his business.............Who are you?
Ron, just installed my kit and can't get it to read rpm. The 3 inch monitor just says stall. I hooked up my yellow wire to the negative coil. This is installed on 350 sbc using boyd's tank with 340 lph aeromotive fuel intank pump. Any suggestions?