The person moving should declare their formation intent before beginning to move. That way the ambusher can declare the interrupt attack and the target figures are placed accordingly (a line in the open). Otherwise, the original formation remains for the HE template. This treats formation rules similar to default HE for a howitzer if not declared. Thus, use scenario 1 if formation intent is not declared before picking up a figure, and scenario 2 if intent is declared before beginning to move figures. This also reinforces situational awareness and strategy on the battlefield. Did you forget about that ambush before moving? Well, now you pay for lack of awareness.
We have used solution 2. One reason is thematic (squad not moving in big clump) and other is practical. Even you should always say what you intend to do before measuring or moving any models (right?), sometimes these intentions are not so clear. If opponent says "I move toward that house" and you in that moment (solution 1) declare that you spring ambush, it could result opponent saying that he doesn't move all the way to the house, but just edge of the forest. That still is towards the house. Many times opponent forgets that ambush, so it's better to let him commit to that move he was planning and then stop it in the open. So solution 2 is better, there is no ambiguity what his/hers intention is and there is no need to give too detailed description what you are planning to do then advance/run order is given.
I think solution 2 but with the caveat is that all models have moved as far as the model that has moved the farthest. This reduces the hits but could conceivably mean that the trailing guys don't make it into cover.
Interesting. I haven't come across this despite my love of pies ;) Thematically I would think that a unit wouldn't move across a space clumped together as if huddling behind cover. Snaking across seems sensible but that would take longer to do making the unit more 'visible'. BA rule writers like simple solutions and one-off situational/exception rules rare... Solution 3 has merit - it doesn't worry itself about unit formation/cohesion, it's still used on Partisan booby traps, and it favours the ambush! After all isn't that what ambushes are for - inflicting the maximum amount of pain?!!
Thank you! 4:20 Very specific^^ they never Played HE on Ambush I guess^^ 6:17 I would realy love WARLORD GAMES would hire you to WORK ON THE RULES for BA V3. I really do. I would become a great Game. If the Game Publisher Fails - Should the "Community" write or add Rules?
Another Ambush with HE question. Page 68, HE section, says "First pick a point to place the centre of the template on. This can be anywhere on top of, or between the target unit's models, so that the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit, but the template cannot clip any friendly models." This can be interpreted a couple of ways. Example 1: You wait to fire Ambush when an assaulting infantry unit has come in base-to-base contact with its target. Can you then place the template such that it covers the most enemy models without clipping friendly models, or must you place it to cover as many enemy models, only to find you can't fire because one or more friendly models get clipped? Example 2: An enemy squad disembarks from a transport. Can you fire immediately when the first infantry model disembarks, thus clipping the transport? Or does the whole squad have to be "positioned accordingly"? What would be "accordingly"? All the infantry exactly 1" from the transport? Also, if only 1 figure triggers the ambush would the template have to be centered somewhere on that 1 figure's base, not skewed to clip a nearby unit? I do hope they make all of this clear in 3rd edition.
For me part of the answer to this is in the frase "unit is then placed" as the unit has to be placed on the table for the shot. That would indicate that the shot tkes place one inch(minimum) from the vehicle
When confronted with this situation at a local gaming club my opponent opted for: Started out as a clump, ambushed as a conga line, ended up as a clump. Best of all was that the final clump was in my LOS. No amount of arguing would dissuade him from that this is how it should be played.
I'd lean toward Solution 2, both because 1) as you say, it's good to incentivize maneuvering, as it's more risky, but also 2) because not all ambush units fire one shot: if a Wirblewind was set on ambush, you'd be looking at potentially 8 1" HE shots, which is CRAZY if using Solution 1, or even Solution 3. So I'd go with Solution 2, just to make things a bit more manageable.
HE hits from autocannons are daisy chained themselves so it doesn't matter either way, you will still hit the same number of dudes :) Another win for the quad cannon...
From my beginners perspective I'd go for a mathy solution (X+Y)/2. X Hits when clumped up Y hits wehn the movment finished. In the end it would be a mix up of solution 1 and 2.
Have they Fixed this in V3? I got the Rulebook, but I haven't Read that Section yet. Accordingly! HOW DOES ONE COUNTER TONS OF HE GUNLINES WITH TONS of MMG's in front of them?
oh yeah this one has caused a bit of frustration, bordering shouting:-p at times. There is an aspect you dont really cover... which is... cover... would the congo line infantry potentially get hard cover if at any time there would be more behind the cover than in the open?(which i would find stupid but you certainly could argue for it)? ... concerning how i would prefer it handled is that unit should maintain original formation... because then you have something solid to work with(easy to handle, easy to play) i mean, nobody forces you to make a move if you know the cost could be dire, maybe your squad should not be where they are, or not have the densely packed formation... an ambush... well i supose it should favour the ambusher... isnt that the whole point, you spend a dice on something that does not nessesary result in action... thus shoud have the favour.. but i totally agree, we have to wait, and untill v3 hopefully clarifies it, its not so important how it will be handled... just that it will be handled., then the game should automatically make its small adjustments on how to field stuff. but thumbs up for putting words on the matter... i still would like to nkow if there are scenarios where a triggered ambush shooting in open... could end up getting cover penalty not caused by limitations for what it shoulds over(walls, bushes, fences etc)...
My solution; Player 1 states they are moving their unit Player 1 then moves their unit Player 2 announces Ambush fire Player 1 finishes move, and can have their unit in any order/ arrangement they wish Player 2 then places the template. It sounds like it would favour player 1, but as units are usually about 5 or 6" of table coverage a 12" move means that spreading out to not get hit by the template is actually not helpful if a player was hopping from behind one house to another. If the Ambush player misses the targeted player is now not ideal, but still had the choice of the arrangement. Having a set number of hits equal to the template width +1 or anything else doesn't seem fair to me
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I would look at military doctrine... unless you are charging a target, you moved in extended line, therefore, method 2 if crossing your line of fire.
The person moving should declare their formation intent before beginning to move. That way the ambusher can declare the interrupt attack and the target figures are placed accordingly (a line in the open). Otherwise, the original formation remains for the HE template. This treats formation rules similar to default HE for a howitzer if not declared. Thus, use scenario 1 if formation intent is not declared before picking up a figure, and scenario 2 if intent is declared before beginning to move figures. This also reinforces situational awareness and strategy on the battlefield. Did you forget about that ambush before moving? Well, now you pay for lack of awareness.
We have used solution 2. One reason is thematic (squad not moving in big clump) and other is practical. Even you should always say what you intend to do before measuring or moving any models (right?), sometimes these intentions are not so clear. If opponent says "I move toward that house" and you in that moment (solution 1) declare that you spring ambush, it could result opponent saying that he doesn't move all the way to the house, but just edge of the forest. That still is towards the house. Many times opponent forgets that ambush, so it's better to let him commit to that move he was planning and then stop it in the open. So solution 2 is better, there is no ambiguity what his/hers intention is and there is no need to give too detailed description what you are planning to do then advance/run order is given.
I think solution 2 but with the caveat is that all models have moved as far as the model that has moved the farthest. This reduces the hits but could conceivably mean that the trailing guys don't make it into cover.
Interesting. I haven't come across this despite my love of pies ;)
Thematically I would think that a unit wouldn't move across a space clumped together as if huddling behind cover. Snaking across seems sensible but that would take longer to do making the unit more 'visible'.
BA rule writers like simple solutions and one-off situational/exception rules rare...
Solution 3 has merit - it doesn't worry itself about unit formation/cohesion, it's still used on Partisan booby traps, and it favours the ambush! After all isn't that what ambushes are for - inflicting the maximum amount of pain?!!
Thank you!
4:20 Very specific^^ they never Played HE on Ambush I guess^^
6:17 I would realy love WARLORD GAMES would hire you to WORK ON THE RULES for BA V3.
I really do. I would become a great Game.
If the Game Publisher Fails - Should the "Community" write or add Rules?
Another Ambush with HE question. Page 68, HE section, says "First pick a point to place the centre of the template on. This can be anywhere on top of, or between the target unit's models, so that the template covers as many models as possible in the target unit, but the template cannot clip any friendly models."
This can be interpreted a couple of ways.
Example 1: You wait to fire Ambush when an assaulting infantry unit has come in base-to-base contact with its target. Can you then place the template such that it covers the most enemy models without clipping friendly models, or must you place it to cover as many enemy models, only to find you can't fire because one or more friendly models get clipped?
Example 2: An enemy squad disembarks from a transport. Can you fire immediately when the first infantry model disembarks, thus clipping the transport? Or does the whole squad have to be "positioned accordingly"? What would be "accordingly"? All the infantry exactly 1" from the transport?
Also, if only 1 figure triggers the ambush would the template have to be centered somewhere on that 1 figure's base, not skewed to clip a nearby unit?
I do hope they make all of this clear in 3rd edition.
For me part of the answer to this is in the frase "unit is then placed" as the unit has to be placed on the table for the shot. That would indicate that the shot tkes place one inch(minimum) from the vehicle
When confronted with this situation at a local gaming club my opponent opted for: Started out as a clump, ambushed as a conga line, ended up as a clump.
Best of all was that the final clump was in my LOS. No amount of arguing would dissuade him from that this is how it should be played.
These are trained troops. The nco would order single file. We are not discussing a prehistoric horde here.
I'd lean toward Solution 2, both because 1) as you say, it's good to incentivize maneuvering, as it's more risky, but also 2) because not all ambush units fire one shot: if a Wirblewind was set on ambush, you'd be looking at potentially 8 1" HE shots, which is CRAZY if using Solution 1, or even Solution 3. So I'd go with Solution 2, just to make things a bit more manageable.
HE hits from autocannons are daisy chained themselves so it doesn't matter either way, you will still hit the same number of dudes :) Another win for the quad cannon...
From my beginners perspective I'd go for a mathy solution (X+Y)/2. X Hits when clumped up Y hits wehn the movment finished. In the end it would be a mix up of solution 1 and 2.
Have they Fixed this in V3? I got the Rulebook, but I haven't Read that Section yet.
Accordingly!
HOW DOES ONE COUNTER TONS OF HE GUNLINES WITH TONS of MMG's in front of them?
oh yeah this one has caused a bit of frustration, bordering shouting:-p at times. There is an aspect you dont really cover... which is... cover... would the congo line infantry potentially get hard cover if at any time there would be more behind the cover than in the open?(which i would find stupid but you certainly could argue for it)? ... concerning how i would prefer it handled is that unit should maintain original formation... because then you have something solid to work with(easy to handle, easy to play) i mean, nobody forces you to make a move if you know the cost could be dire, maybe your squad should not be where they are, or not have the densely packed formation... an ambush... well i supose it should favour the ambusher... isnt that the whole point, you spend a dice on something that does not nessesary result in action... thus shoud have the favour.. but i totally agree, we have to wait, and untill v3 hopefully clarifies it, its not so important how it will be handled... just that it will be handled., then the game should automatically make its small adjustments on how to field stuff. but thumbs up for putting words on the matter... i still would like to nkow if there are scenarios where a triggered ambush shooting in open... could end up getting cover penalty not caused by limitations for what it shoulds over(walls, bushes, fences etc)...
I ignore cover as it is not applicable if the ambush is shot at an open spot
My solution;
Player 1 states they are moving their unit
Player 1 then moves their unit
Player 2 announces Ambush fire
Player 1 finishes move, and can have their unit in any order/ arrangement they wish
Player 2 then places the template.
It sounds like it would favour player 1, but as units are usually about 5 or 6" of table coverage a 12" move means that spreading out to not get hit by the template is actually not helpful if a player was hopping from behind one house to another. If the Ambush player misses the targeted player is now not ideal, but still had the choice of the arrangement.
Having a set number of hits equal to the template width +1 or anything else doesn't seem fair to me