Maybe I’m on the wrong channel, is Dan McClellan a Christian? Because Jesus clearly quotes Proverbs 30:4 in reference to himself when talking to Nicodemus in John 3, Sam is spot on: John : 3 : 13 - And no one has ascended to heaven, except the one who descended from heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven. Proverbs : 30 : 4 - Who has ascended to heaven and also descended? Who has grasped the wind in his hands? Who has tied the waters together, as with a garment? Who has raised all the limits of the earth? What is his name, and what is the name of his son, if you know?
Thank you so much for, when i saw this video , went straight to my bible and i kept reading the whole passage and i just knew this guy must be mistaken but i wasnt sure.. this has jus validated everything
This is not even a quotation of proverbs your twisting this yourself. One is asking questions and jesus is making a statement. Y’all are truly reading into the Text at this point. Jesus said nobody’s ascended from heaven except the one who descended from heaven. Where is that in proverbs 30?
Don't be fooled by Dan's theology he's never gone head to head with any respectable or formidable theologist. He's got a bunch of degrees from a bunch of crap universities that he doesn't even follow or believe in. He is a Mormon or if you want to call him a latter-day Saint or whatever. Anyone that follows that theology should never be listened to other than as a warning or for informational purposes about that person's theology. Sam may come off as arrogant but he's dealing with a vast majority of people in the Muslim community that act just like he does and he fights fire with fire on a very very even playing field.
I was a fan of him 2y ago lol. I always wanted to see him debate knowledgeable opponents but it never happened anyways my eyes are open now because of a dream I feel bad for him his followers bro
Didn’t Jesus say that all of scripture is about him? And if so, the surface answer would be as you say, no human can do any of those things. But it just so happens to fit that God is the answer to those rhetorical questions and Jesus is his son. So, ie, why can’t both be true ?
Jesus was born flesh in this world therefore the earth would be the default place when he says who has ascended; JOHN 20 Verse 17, Jesus said to Mary not to touch him, because he has not yet ascended to his Father, your Father then Jesus was seen by all the disciples a few days after and they were able to touch where he was pierced
Read from proverbs 30 1, this is Agur trying to tell why is in unworthy of being God's prophet, 3 -4 is his arguement that he is unwise and doesn't know enough about God and his Son. Meaning at that time the people knew of God and his Sojln, many had great knowledge but Agur didn't and wasn't worthy
Colossians 1:15-20 [15]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. [16]For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. [17]And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. [18]And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. Reconciled in Christ [19]For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, [20]and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
If Jesus hypothetically would return tomorrow and would say he is not God or the literal son of God, trinitarians would start to debate him and would accuse him to not have understood the bible. 😂
@@Christian4live Psalms 2:7 : "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (King David), *Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee* Hosea 11:1 When *Israel* was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called *my son*
@@Christian4live and Jesus admits this. His father which is also his God is the father of all others. This can only work if its a metaphor John 20 17 Jesus said, *‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father,* to my God and your God
There are absolutely no references or prophecies of Jesus in the Hebrew bible. Not one. Every such claim made by Christians requires that the text be either removed from its context, mistranslated or both, or have its sense stretched beyond sensible in order to give it a different meaning. The practice was always disingenuous and with the flourishing of biblical scholarship to hold to such lies today displays either ignorance of the scriptures or flagrant and wilful dishonesty.
According to Maimonides, Jesus of Nazareth was alluded to in Daniel's prophecies, as ibid. 11:14 states: "The vulgar among your people shall exalt themselves in an attempt to fulfill the vision, but they shall stumble."
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 OK. Maimonides was a smart man but that doesn't make him correct in all things. If he said this, he was very obviously in error. Translated directly from Hebrew, the verse reads: "And in those times, many will rise up against the king of the south, and the sons of the renegades of your people will exalt themselves to bring about the vision but they will fail." The next verse refers to the king of the North. This is clearly a reference to the kings of Judah and Israel. Explain to me how that is a reference to, or a prophecy of, Jesus.
According to Matthew, Jesus himself set out to fulfill these references, so to some extent Jesus was created from these reinterpretations. It's not surprising that Christians are still doing that.
@@theoutspokenhumanist Can there be a greater stumbling block than Christianity? All the prophets spoke of Mashiach as the redeemer of Israel and their savior who would gather their dispersed and strengthen their observance of the mitzvot. In contrast, Christianity caused the Jews to be slain by the sword, their remnants to be scattered and humbled, the Torah to be altered, and the majority of the world to err and serve a god other than the Lord.
Good question, So in answer to WHO is referred to here. No imperfect human has gone up to heaven and come back omniscient; nor has any human the ability to control the wind, the seas, or the geological forces shaping the earth. In effect, then, Agur asked: ‘Do you know the name or family line of any man who has done these things?’ We must answer no! Thus, we have to look outside the human sphere to find one who has the superhuman power to control natural forces. We are not, though, limited to learning about him by observing his accomplishments. (Romans 1:20) This is because he has, as it were, descended with information about himself and his dealings. He has provided specific information. He did this, for example, when he ‘descended’ to give the Law to Moses on Mount Sinai. He has also helped his servants to appreciate his meaningful name, Jehovah. Later, he identified his Son, who was named Jesus and who literally descended from heaven with additional information about the Creator.
@@joshuacromley7439 Sam violates teachings of Christ in all of his videos and needs to be call out. He insults people's mothers for no reason. He is a terrible individual.
@@joshuacromley7439 dude just shut up. If you were really concerned about acting Christ like you would argue against Sam. Btw I am NOT a christian anymore. Biblical scholarship destroyed my faith. So your talking is nonsense to me.
@joshuacromley7439 I find the 'message' of Substitutional Atonement to be reprehensible. I also find almost zero 'morality' in the bible or the traditions and/or history of the church
@@joshuacromley7439 Good morality is not acting like the Abrahamic god. --------------------------------------------------------- *This website is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.* I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along. *It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill.* For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21). God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife! *Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!* In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). ***This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.*** ***Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.*** If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself. *Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven:* For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12). *I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.* The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice. *And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:* It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17). There are many more quotes on this topic at my Do Not Ignore the Old Testament web page. *If you follow the links on this site you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers.* www.evilbible.com/ Watch *"Context!!!!!!"* by NonStampCollector (A good video for believers who try to rationalise Biblical atrocities and immorality by saying "Out of context".)
Only one problem with that John 3:13 Jesus literally quotes this passage. So 🤷🏽♂️. Man you over educated over thinking high minded man, not able to allow scripture speak.
Can men be called the holy ones?? Did they lay the foundations of the earth? Did no one do it? God did it obviously. Let’s not distort the word. Isiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. A child is born who is called Mighty God. The Everlasting Father. You literally can’t make this up. No human is worthy of being called that thus this child is more mere human. Read the bible as it ought to be read and stop twisting it. God says if any man adds or subtracts from his word, their name will be blotted out of the book of life. Be careful with God. He’s very serious with these things. Isaiah 53: 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,and he will divide the spoils with the strong,because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. There are more scriptures to read about the messiah but you’ll close your ears as you want to stay in your belief. Do you want the truth or do you want religion. Choose God and read his word as plainly as it is written.
@@CristianoRonaldo-li9guI seen this one answer but I will paste it, this is not my answer but I agree with it: Re: PRO 30:04. At the surface level, when reading a translation. It's easy to insert translators bias. EG, The English translation is often rendered ... "What is His name and what is His son's name. If you know" 30:04 This is the English from my Artscroll Tanach. So what does the actual Hebrew say....? מַה-שְּׁמוֹ וּמַה-שֶּׁם-בְּנוֹ, כִּי תֵדָע (30:04) ma shemo umah shem beno מַה-שְּׁמוֹ וּמַה-שֶּׁם-בְּנוֹ What is His name & what is His son's name...... Good translation, no problem ki tedah כִּי תֵדָע ............ Because you WILL know......... Better translation without bias One way you "Will Know" the Son's name is via code known as ELS. This is a well known concept within the Jewish world. Such as ELS=49 giving us TORAH in GEN+EXD then HAROT in NUM+DET . The forward & backwards Torah pointing us to LEV where we use an ELS=7 for God's name of YHVH...... So ELS is "everywhere" & not that hard to discover with the right program & computer. Mishlea / PRO 30:04-07 מִי עָלָה-שָׁמַיִם וַיֵּרַד, מִי אָסַף-רוּחַ בְּחָפְנָיו מִי צָרַר-מַיִם בַּשִּׂמְלָה-- מִי, הֵקִים כָּל-אַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ: מַה-שְּׁמוֹ וּמַה-שֶּׁם-בְּנוֹ, כִּי תֵדָע כָּל-אִמְרַת אֱלוֹהַּ צְרוּפָה; מָגֵן הוּא, לַחֹסִים בּוֹ אַל-תּוֹסְףְּ עַל-דְּבָרָיו: פֶּן-יוֹכִיחַ בְּךָ וְנִכְזָבְתָּ שְׁתַּיִם, שָׁאַלְתִּי מֵאִתָּךְ; אַל-תִּמְנַע מִמֶּנִּי, בְּטֶרֶם אָמוּת When we view this section about "His son's name". 95% of the Jewish world will use the excuse of "Israel is the son" quoting from EXD 04:22 So what does God say....? Using an ELS=22 & beginning in verse 04 from the word "מִי / mi / who" (מִי, הֵקִים כָּל-אַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ) We begin the count from the Yod in "mi / מִי" then 22-letters...... Shin / שָׁ. Then 22-letters...... Vav / וּ. Then 22-letters....... Ayin / ע. Then 22-letters....... Shin / שָׁ. Then 22-letters........ Yod / י What do we get........? יֵשׁוּעַ שַׁי / Yeshua (is the) gift / Yeshua shy So now you KNOW the gift that has been given to us all. The name of the Son is......... YESHUA
You are too mind blinded to see the truth of Jesus Keep denying as much as you can but the truth is always there just in front of you Jesus is the Lord
Can men be called the holy ones?? Did they lay the foundations of the earth? Did no one do it? God did it obviously. Let’s not distort the word. Isiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. A child is born who is called Mighty God. The Everlasting Father. You literally can’t make this up. No human is worthy of being called that thus this child is more mere human. Read the bible as it ought to be read and stop twisting it. God says if any man adds or subtracts from his word, their name will be blotted out of the book of life. Be careful with God. He’s very serious with these things. Isaiah 53: 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,and he will divide the spoils with the strong,because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. There are more scriptures to read about the Messiah in the Old Testament. Do you want the truth or do you want religion. Choose God and read his word as plainly as it is written.
Funny thing is the Bible according to Paul says people who debate to cause strife won’t inherit the kingdom which is exactly what Sam does. Sam does debates strictly to attack others beliefs when he himself does not know everything
No ur wrong It Is the muslims, the jw witnesses or every other people Who disagree with him that want to debate with him. Sam just answers to their question with the same attitude they have, and yeah It might seems hes arrogant and not patient, even he said so, but of course nobody Is perfect. Also in the in the bible It says to be ready to defend and explain everytime u get asked about your faith and thats what Sam does. Always i the bible by reading the gospels u notice that from our belief Jesus is the only way to Heaven, not Allah, not Buddha ecc.. so if something disagree with the divinity of true living God Jesus Christ of Nazareth then It cannot be from god but fron the Devil. @@sosaflex9152
Could you also do Isaiah 48:16? That's another ambiguous passage that trinitarians interpret as a mention of the Trinity. Could you shed some light on what that verse is about?
The Scripture is saying Elohim (Almighty) has sent YashaYahu (Isaiah) accompanied by his Qodesh Spirit. There is no trinity there and, YashaYahu is affirming that Elohim has placed in him the Spirit of prophesy and not anything else. He also refers to the time of the beginning of his prophesies. Read the verse again over and over and pray over it and YAH, blessed be his Qadosh Name, will give you more wisdom on it.
@@alphonsiusmwila5627Qodesh spirit literally means Holy spirit. Isaiah makes a clear distinction between the Lord and His Spirit and you’re pretending this has nothing to do with the triunity of God while the Holy Spirit and the Lord make up 2/3 of that triunity?? Amazing
Can men be called the holy ones?? Did they lay the foundations of the earth? Did no one do it? God did it obviously. Let’s not distort the word. Isiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. A child is born who is called Mighty God. The Everlasting Father. You literally can’t make this up. No human is worthy of being called that thus this child is more mere human. Read the bible as it ought to be read and stop twisting it. God says if any man adds or subtracts from his word, their name will be blotted out of the book of life. Be careful with God. He’s very serious with these things. Isaiah 53: 1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem. 4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. 11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,and he will divide the spoils with the strong,because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. There are more scriptures to read about the Messiah in the Old Testament. Do you want the truth or do you want religion. Choose God and read his word as plainly as it is written.
So, at the time Proverbs was written, If it was pertaining to "the Messiah" they would've no idea what it was referencing since Jesus wasn't born. Then the reader would say "Wow, this sucks! The entire thing is to be continued? Boo!"
You're taking the Word of a Mormon they don't believe in the Trinity and they're on Par with being as dumb as Jehovah's Witness. So what does that make you?
Id advise you read the scripture yourself, youll soon find out that one can be humble and wrong at the sametime...lets jus pray God shines light on all of us and be willing to be corrected in righteousness ...Sam might come across as arrogant, i dont always like his approach, but his mostly right theologically
What would be the purpouse of that? Sam is not a scholar, he is an apologist. He is not concerned with understanding the intention behind a given passage, he is concerned with framing information in whatever way he needs to, to reaffirm already existing beliefs.
@@digitaljanus HUH? No it isn’t. I see your concern but scholars can participate in debate when looking at data per the different beliefs WITHIN Christianity…
@@rager4able apologists have little to nothing to offer when it comes to scholarly debates of the bible. they play devils advocate as a way of opening a "maybe the bible is real actually" option and that simply is not what scholarly debates are about.
Your "interpretation" of these verses, trying to explain it away, is pathetic! God and Jesus did exactly what's mentioned in these verses! Obviously! Jesus came down (for you) and ascended. These verses are prophetic! And Jesus calmed the wind with his Word!
Thank you for clarifying this it is obvious the answer is God and his son Israel but you might not want to disclose that because it goes against the jeezuz doctrine
@ the video never said his son descended bro… the son is Israel. Isaiah 53: Israel is suffering servant - Isaiah 41:8, Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 44:1, Isaiah 44:21, Isaiah 45:4, and Isaiah 49:3 explains this
This is one of the worst takes on a Bible verse I’ve ever heard. The examples of powers stated within the questions are obviously powers that only God has. More precisely, they are powers that the Angel of Lord/ the Word/the Son has. In the Old Testament there are distinct personages of God laid out within the text; the Lord, the Angel of the Lord, and the Spirit of the Lord. Yes, the triunity of God is established in the OT. The Shekinah, the manifestation of God in the physical world. The Angel of the Lord (also the Word or Arm of the Lord) is the person of God that interacts with the material world and even created the material world which was spoken into existence. Once one understands this, such a verse takes on a much deeper meaning, because the examples of powers given are powers that the Son has. This is why John said “the Word became flesh”. This is why God finished the line of questioning with “and what is his son’s name”. He added “if thou canst tell” to emphasis that the Son’s name has not yet been revealed. The notion that God gave revelation according to the dictates of the Israelites’ preconceived ideas is ridiculous. The Israelites were regularly rejecting God’s will and even murdered their own profits.
Isiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Proverbs 30:1 (Tanakh) original the words of the man concerning, "God is with me; yea, God is with me, and I will be able." God is with us = Immanuel This is left out of the more modern versions of the Old Testament
Say what you will and even if Sam is wrong he still answered the question “why is there no mention of a son?” Sam simply let the man himself point out that a son is indeed mentioned. Doesn’t mean he’s right about WHO but a son is absolutely mentioned and that was the man’s question
Just imagine you as a rabbinic Jew you are not sure who the text is referring to. Is it Davidic king or Israel.???. You cant make any sense of your own scriptures if the name is davidic kind or Israel and you expect us to believe you?. But wait a minute coz there is a catch. To begin with Verse 3 says : I have not learned wisdom , nor have i attained to the knowledge of the holy One. ( Hebrew translation is HOLY ONES not holy one; what was you rabbis hiding. This verse alone points to the final answer of who is his name together with his son as the holy ones. Surely davidic king or king solomon or Israel cannot be holy like God. " Who has gone to heaven and come down? According to you= answer is no one Whose hands have gathered up the wind? No one Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? No one Who has established all the ends of the earth? No one ( as if all the ends of the earth established themselves) What is his name? Davidic king or Israel What is the name of his son ? Davidic king or Israel. Do you even think you are making sense?? The last part asking Who established all the ends of the earth? _________ A. Davidic king. B. Israel. C. God What is his name? ____________ A. Davidic king B. Israel. C. Yahweh Even a kindergarten kid can't miss this one but only a grown up like you gives a wrong answer. In one sentence . What is his name, and what is the name of his Son?. If His name is Yahweh. Is it in order to establish the name of the creator in one sentence and include a human being as his son in that sentence?. Did Israel or Davidic king establish all the ends of the world also?.
Dan, you said it yourself "who have ascended up to heaven and came back down..., what is his name and what is the name of his son", you tell me "who have ascended to heaven and came back down" since we know that no one entered heaven before jesus (as a human in flesh) as we know from the OT that no one entered heaven before jesus because they couldnt keep the law fully and no one was sinless except christ himself, so then it was jesus who came to earth => went to sheol to bring the people who waited in a place called sheol into heaven => went back to earth after 3 days to bring the good news to the people.
Thanks for this video it is very helpful. I can now add King and Messiah As Son of God by Adela Yarbro Collins and John J. Collins to my library. You have saved me from Trinitarians, Messianic Jews, and Oneness Pentecostal indoctrination.😅
In Israel, the King is a son of God and an anointed one. It is impossible for a messiah, to not be a king, not be anointed and not be a saviour. That assumption is ridiculous.
The bible is full of prophecies so of course the people would not know the meaning at that time . But now it's pretty obviously a reference to jesus . And jesus mentions it in John 3:13 . The proverb 30 also mentions having control of the wind and water . Well jesus commanded the four winds to bring forth lazarath from the tomb and also calmed the storm . He controls water by walking on it and turning it into wine . There are clearly references to jesus in proverbs 30 .
I checked in Hebrew what is the explanation and found it so here is another one. This is king Solomon speaking here(they say he wrote all proverbs) and is named here “agur bin yeka” which is a nickname that means “stored knowledge puked” and it is not a real man’s name because Ben means son and bin comes from Bina which means wisdom (sorry for my English,there’s probably a better word than puked )the meaning is he gathered up so much knowledge and eventually started teaching it. This is so you know around what age and level of wisdom he was speaking from(probably his peak or near it) And then he (agur,Solomon) is reffering to Moses because Moses gave do’s and donts for the future kings of Israel to come and Solomon didn’t follow them all and thought that he sinned when he got wiser, so he is praising moses and the questions are reffering to Moses that went up to heaven and back and cloaking the water is not the best translation but it is speaking about how he split the sea and then Solomon (agur) asks is there anybody like him? If there is I would like to know his name and his sons name. Hope this helps and don’t forget to be peaceful and good to one another because we are all gods children and a father would like his children to get along with each other first than getting along with him❤if anybody got a question that wants to be checked in Hebrew your welcome to ask
1. Messianic prophecies are over the Bible even if people dont know Jesus. 2. not every scholar agrees with each other so you have to study the text + context. 3. The context is explaining Godly creation, so of course the "his name" is at least God/Yawyeh and his son must be Jesus based on other Old Testament prophecies + Jesus life and reference.
All the writer of the old testament points to one person to come. All the writers of the new testament is all about Jesus. All the books of the Bible wasn't just picked from random sources or knowledge to be thrown together. They were are inspired by the Holy Spirit because they believed in God the Father who taught them of God the Son and then to those who walked and ate with Jesus in the flesh. So I don't believe Sam Shamoun is wrong.
We are still waiting on the Messiah. The Hebrews at the time of Jesus knew, more than anything else, what the Messiah was. That's why Jesus had only 12 disciples - because the entirety of the Jewish nation rejected this false prophet.
Shamoun is good against Islam and in a few interesting points against Jews, Jehova's Witnesses and so on, but he would absolutely crumble against any critical scholar. He can't defend his own beliefs, but only expose inconsistencies in other similarly fragile belief systems.
No.. still wrong explanation of u... u assumed that its not referencing Messiah or Son of God "but" the verses clearly shows ur word by word -- not rhetorical.... the txt clearly states that God is multipersonal and yet one in essence... that first born son - read the context!
If the response is no human knows then he can have a son. Because who knows the name of his ? He has no son. Not no human knows. No humans knows suggest he actually has one.
Proverbs saids " fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom!", now the truth is those who truly fear God, would of course follow those whom God sends " blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" Why would true faith in God, cause people to want to kill those he sends? Think about the truth! ... God himself would protect those he loves! ( read the book of job! Also read how God raptured two holy prophets Enoch and Elijah!, and even christians claim they are loved so much they all will be raptured!, but they also claim those who worship God! Will be punished? Why would God punish those who love and fear him?.... read the jewish scriptures and learn from men like rabbi tovia singer!
Who has ascended up to heaven and come back down? Adapa, the literary source for the Ioannus (Yonah) character in the bible. Whose hands have gathered up the wind? Adapa, who gathered up the south wind. Who has gathered up the waters in a cloak? If you stop the south winds from blowing you will have fog. Who has been to the ends of the Earth? The abgal of Enki are legendary sages who came from either the mediterranean or Red Sea. These guys are mentioned in the context of the SKL, though not the first list, still rather early. Proverbs just tells you one thing, The Yehudite priests and scribes were familiar with contemporary myths. The story of Adapa and the South Wind was known from the 14th century onward, so just before the LBAC, the davidic kingdom is from just after the LBAC. I mean if the story of genesis is pinging these mythological elements from Eridu genesis myth would you expect them to ignore the Adapa myths. The thing is we already know this. What the scholarship is yet timid to say is that the myths tend to focus on one divine being and tend to ignore most others despite rather direct reference to one other divine being and his home city in the bible. Lets go through this again: Adapa legendarily comes from the coast of northern Isra'el Beth Lahmi (egypt Lakhmi) means house of guardian of Enki, putative Bethlehem from the late middle/late bronze age. At least in th 6th and 7th centuries BCE Yathrib (Medinah) was known to be a site of sages which had existed for 3 centuries. The last Babylonian king (scribes thereof), Nabonidus, gives specific reference to Yathrib, as he returned to Haran with the intent of replcing Marduk with the wisdom god Suen [remember that Yahwist belief outside of Hezekiahs Judea was still thoroughly polytheistic]. There remained Jewish independence in the city until the time of Mohammad who nick-named the city the Enlightened city, and forbade the speaking if Yathrib as a Amelek. Yathrib was probably always a Yahwist city, the Amelek title probably comes from sectarian divides between Samarian Yahwist and the apkal from Yathrib. When you understand mysticism you will understand the language of the mystics, these tropes are measures of power among the mystics. Adapa has the power to be an ultimate divine, but he rejects it in favor of his cult. This is a statement over the use of mystical power and magic. When gilgimish goes to the other immortal to gain everlasting life he is queried, why do you seek this? Is not life meant to be lived through all its seasons? This is hundreds of years before greek philosophical movement and you have a man struggling over the question of what is a good life? But Adapa had the power to be a god and rejects this. Again what we see in mesoptamian literature is that kings who are powerful and try to promote themselves as gods, none the less die and in in their wake is the collapse of their dynasties (Naram sin). Gilgamesh goes to the ends of the earth to find the fountain of youth, but in the end learns the most important lesson in life, not extending life. As for Adapa, abgal of Enki are not meant to be served but to serve, it is through service that there life gains value "As they were leaving, he began to speak to the multitudes about Yochanan, What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed being shaken by the wind?" What pushed Nabonidus into the desert? his love of Marduk? It is not wealth and power that great kings seek out this desert. What really happened to Assyria, how was it so great that it fell so splendedly burned to the ground all its major cities. Its snatched defeat from the hands of victory, its god was the most powerful god on Earth and on one day there and the next day gone. If Assyria did not have the magic, then what is the magic, does it even exist?
@@mithras666 Kipp Davis has a video on the Danielic sources of the DSS, in this he discusses Nabonidus and DSS sources on the desert "Jewish" sages. He reflects on how the book of Daniel is crafted from older source material. I think Derek Lambert has some videos on Adapa and the apkallu. Neal Sedlak (Gnostic Informant) has videos pertaining to Jonah and his connection to Adapa. The answer to the question is Nabonidus took a deep look at Marduk and saw Asshur. That is because Assyria tried to match their god myths to Marduk, and were better at it. If the god of Assyria is more powerful than the Babylonian power god, what hope did Nabonidus have that his Babylon would survive. By the time he reached Haran the answer was all but on his doorstep. The Enki cult survived as long as it was bathed in a system of polytheism, and in the levant El was not a supreme god, his cognate temple in Akkad and Sumer was stripped from him, his destiny was to live on mountains, his priest watching upon the wilderness. In this system the esoteric cult could survive in isolation as long as no god reigned supreme. Remember that Marduk stripped the powers and titles of his father Enki, Asshur was Marduks Mimic. What was the sin of Ninevah? Why did even the cows need to wear sackcloth? Who was the supreme god of Ninevah and what happened to Isra'el in that gods wake? What truely happened to Ninevah, its fate is worse than the prophesy of Jonah. I suspect that the cult produced teachers that tried to make their way to Akkad and Sumer only to learn that only Assyria was expanding and Babylon was run by aramean tribesmen. As a consequence they probably recognized Israel as crudely reverent to the old gods and tried to teach them about Ia, and of course without a writing system or a sophisticated priesthood it would not reconstitute Babylon. Had Israel and the 10 kings waited for Babylon to get its act together they may have defeated Assyria in the 9th century. So we are counting a system of belief that begins 5460 BCE that grew in complexity until the LBAC, out of which came powerful empires and even more amazing collapses. In 530 BCE this system of social organization begins its long decay which ends in the 7th century AD. So today, we squabble over a piece of land and who & when build the next temple that the high god of Isra'el did not have, want or need. The great sages did not need a shining city on a hill. Exodus 20, how to structure practice of worship . . .not the wailing wall. All three of the Abrahamic faiths are grabbing at each others throat either suffocating or resuscitating each other to sustain this falseness. None are eternal.
This guy can easily manipulate the truth. Brothers be careful. Mark 8:15 15 “Be careful,” Jesus warned them. “Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and that of Herod.” Jesus warns His disciples to be vigilant against the "leaven" of the Pharisees and Herod-a metaphor for their corrupt teachings and influence.
Dan fails to mention the bangwagon fallacy he has alot of people agreeing with him but evidence, Evidence of course contradict dan like it always does, scholars say that john referneces proverbs 30:4
Proverbs is a collection of collections. It is a part of the Jewish Wisdom literature, but, in my mind, speaks in a kind of poetry. I don't think these passages can be understood by simple, one-time reading. Like all texts (poetry especially) one can find one's answers, but more often one finds more questions. Keep asking, keep reflecting, keep questioning, keep finding one's place in them.
Are you telling people to keep questioning until they come to the same conclusions that you have? And if they don't come to your conclusions - say that they conclude that the scholars who have seen, read and studied ancient copies that have contradictions, inaccuracies, additions and redactions that your Bible has edited out - would you consider that those people are wrong?
People will come to their own conclusions. We're not talking about histories here, or technical manuals. Proverbs is a strange collection of collections that might just have well been left to one side of the Christian Bible. But the early Christian 'deciders' had too much respect for the Jewish texts to ignore them. The only Bibles that are 'mine' are the ones I own here at the house.@@Noneya5555
@@monteirolobato6830 So you don't think that the people who follow Dan's channels in a sincere desire to partake of his scholarship haven't already come to their own conclusions?
Just imagine you as a rabbinic Jew you are not sure who the text is referring to. Is it Davidic king or Israel.???. You cant make any sense of your own scriptures if the name is davidic kind or Israel and you expect us to believe you?. But wait a minute coz there is a catch. To begin with Verse 3 says : I have not learned wisdom , nor have i attained to the knowledge of the holy One. ( Hebrew translation is HOLY ONES not holy one; what was you rabbis hiding. This verse alone points to the final answer of who is his name together with his son as the holy ones. Surely davidic king or king solomon or Israel cannot be holy like God. " Who has gone to heaven and come down? According to you= answer is no one Whose hands have gathered up the wind? No one Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? No one Who has established all the ends of the earth? No one ( as if all the ends of the earth established themselves) What is his name? Davidic king or Israel What is the name of his son ? Davidic king or Israel. Do you even think you are making sense?? The last part asking Who established all the ends of the earth? _________ A. Davidic king. B. Israel. C. God What is his name? ____________ A. Davidic king B. Israel. C. Yahweh Even a kindergarten kid can't miss this one but only a grown up like you gives a wrong answer. In one sentence . What is his name, and what is the name of his Son?. If His name is Yahweh. Is it in order to establish the name of the creator in one sentence and include a human being as his son in that sentence?. Did Israel or Davidic king establish all the ends of the world also?.
Jesus was born flesh in this world therefore the earth would be the default place when he says who has ascended; JOHN 20 Verse 17, Jesus said to Mary not to touch him, because he has not yet ascended to his Father, your Father then Jesus was seen by all the disciples a few days after and they were able to touch where he was pierced
The jewish publication society prints the jewish torah and jewish tanakh! Rabbi tovia singer can answer all questions about jewish scriptures! ( now the truth is that God knows the truth!, while many versions of the bible have been changed or misinterpreted!) The truth is the truth! Just read Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven and earth!, ... read the first verse of the holy bible! Understand that God himself created and formed the heavens and the earth 🌎! ...
No, it does make sense because the point is that no man created the earth Bridgeway Bible Commentary Agur, some of whose sayings are collected here, was apparently a well known wisdom teacher in the Palestine region. He begins his instruction with a confession that though he longs to know God he cannot, because he is merely a man. No human being can do the great works God has done. *Agur challenges his hearers to tell him the name of any person (or the name of that person’s son, if they prefer) who has been to heaven and returned to tell people what God is like...*
@@JopJio it was a rhetorical question with God being the answer. Of course no man could have done those things, but only God could. Notice the 5th verse is the context.
@@EdtheTraveler Pro 30 2 *Surely I am only a brute, not a man; I do not have human understanding.* *3 I have not learned wisdom, nor have I attained to the knowledge of the Holy One.* *“Every word of God is flawless;* he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. *6 Do not add to his words,* *or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar*
@@EdtheTraveler He basically says to his audience: if no man ever went up to heaven and came back, do not to make claims about God you can not back up, otherwise God will expose you.
Maybe I’m on the wrong channel, is Dan McClellan a Christian? Because Jesus clearly quotes Proverbs 30:4 in reference to himself when talking to Nicodemus in John 3, Sam is spot on:
John : 3 : 13 - And no one has ascended to heaven, except the one who descended from heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven.
Proverbs : 30 : 4 - Who has ascended to heaven and also descended? Who has grasped the wind in his hands? Who has tied the waters together, as with a garment? Who has raised all the limits of the earth? What is his name, and what is the name of his son, if you know?
Thank you so much for, when i saw this video , went straight to my bible and i kept reading the whole passage and i just knew this guy must be mistaken but i wasnt sure.. this has jus validated everything
@@sakhilembatha1103this channel is apparently Mormon, do not listen to this false theology. God bless
This is not even a quotation of proverbs your twisting this yourself. One is asking questions and jesus is making a statement. Y’all are truly reading into the Text at this point. Jesus said nobody’s ascended from heaven except the one who descended from heaven. Where is that in proverbs 30?
@@sosaflex9152verse 4
Im am so disappointed Sam hasn’t seen this. 😂😂😂 he wouldve had a feast with this guy
Psalms 110
The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
What's the rhetorical answer pls 🥺
El and YHWH, Judaism is rooted in polytheism and evolved to monotheism during its history, search for Yahwism to learn more
Don't forget the very important questions: Who can take a sunrise and sprinkle it with dew and who can cover it with chocolate and a miracle or 2?
Um, is it Jesus? 😆
@@Noneya5555 I call him the Candyman. You can call him whatever you want.
@@clancyalexander6192 Jesus is the Candyman. All you have to do to see him is say his name 3 times and...
Wait, wrong Candyman. 😂
@@Noneya5555 I tried doing that and he didn't appear to me. That's why I'm an atheist.
@@clancyalexander6192 That's because Jesus knows if you've been bad or good. So be good, for goodness sake! 😆
Don't be fooled by Dan's theology he's never gone head to head with any respectable or formidable theologist. He's got a bunch of degrees from a bunch of crap universities that he doesn't even follow or believe in. He is a Mormon or if you want to call him a latter-day Saint or whatever. Anyone that follows that theology should never be listened to other than as a warning or for informational purposes about that person's theology. Sam may come off as arrogant but he's dealing with a vast majority of people in the Muslim community that act just like he does and he fights fire with fire on a very very even playing field.
I was a fan of him 2y ago lol. I always wanted to see him debate knowledgeable opponents but it never happened anyways my eyes are open now because of a dream I feel bad for him his followers bro
Didn’t Jesus say that all of scripture is about him? And if so, the surface answer would be as you say, no human can do any of those things. But it just so happens to fit that God is the answer to those rhetorical questions and Jesus is his son. So, ie, why can’t both be true ?
I like Dan's more humble and scholarly presentation than the level of confidence while still being wrong of the apologist.
This dude has the gift of twisting the most simple and plain reading of the text into none sense.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 trueeeee
Apologist: “And I would have got away with it too, if it wasn’t for you pesky scholars!” 😠
Jesus was born flesh in this world therefore the earth would be the default place when he says who has ascended; JOHN 20 Verse 17, Jesus said to Mary not to touch him, because he has not yet ascended to his Father, your Father then Jesus was seen by all the disciples a few days after and they were able to touch where he was pierced
Read from proverbs 30 1, this is Agur trying to tell why is in unworthy of being God's prophet, 3 -4 is his arguement that he is unwise and doesn't know enough about God and his Son. Meaning at that time the people knew of God and his Sojln, many had great knowledge but Agur didn't and wasn't worthy
Colossians 1:15-20
[15]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
[16]For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
[17]And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
[18]And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. Reconciled in Christ
[19]For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,
[20]and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
If Jesus hypothetically would return tomorrow and would say he is not God or the literal son of God, trinitarians would start to debate him and would accuse him to not have understood the bible. 😂
@@Christian4live I am still no Muslim and in the bible there are many sons of God, but METAPHORICALLY, not literally🤣🤦♀️
@@Christian4live Psalms 2:7 : "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (King David), *Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee*
Hosea 11:1 When *Israel* was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called *my son*
@@Christian4live and Jesus admits this. His father which is also his God is the father of all others. This can only work if its a metaphor
John 20 17 Jesus said, *‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father,* to my God and your God
As I said many times now. If you can't defend the Bible don't come up with other faiths which have nothing to do with the topic🤦♀️🤣
Jesus is not the only son of God, because many are the sons of God and all (including Jesus) are metaphorical sons of God in the bible 🤦♀️
There are absolutely no references or prophecies of Jesus in the Hebrew bible. Not one.
Every such claim made by Christians requires that the text be either removed from its context, mistranslated or both, or have its sense stretched beyond sensible in order to give it a different meaning. The practice was always disingenuous and with the flourishing of biblical scholarship to hold to such lies today displays either ignorance of the scriptures or flagrant and wilful dishonesty.
According to Maimonides, Jesus of Nazareth was alluded to in Daniel's prophecies, as ibid. 11:14 states: "The vulgar among your people shall exalt themselves in an attempt to fulfill the vision, but they shall stumble."
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 OK. Maimonides was a smart man but that doesn't make him correct in all things. If he said this, he was very obviously in error.
Translated directly from Hebrew, the verse reads:
"And in those times, many will rise up against the king of the south, and the sons of the renegades of your people will exalt themselves to bring about the vision but they will fail."
The next verse refers to the king of the North.
This is clearly a reference to the kings of Judah and Israel.
Explain to me how that is a reference to, or a prophecy of, Jesus.
According to Matthew, Jesus himself set out to fulfill these references, so to some extent Jesus was created from these reinterpretations. It's not surprising that Christians are still doing that.
@@theoutspokenhumanist Can there be a greater stumbling block than Christianity? All the prophets spoke of Mashiach as the redeemer of Israel and their savior who would gather their dispersed and strengthen their observance of the mitzvot. In contrast, Christianity caused the Jews to be slain by the sword, their remnants to be scattered and humbled, the Torah to be altered, and the majority of the world to err and serve a god other than the Lord.
@@goldenalt3166 Absolutely. Well said.
Quote mining. The number one tool of apologetics.
No better way to prove a text is true, than to quote the text. 🤣
Good question, So in answer to WHO is referred to here. No imperfect human has gone up to heaven and come back omniscient; nor has any human the ability to control the wind, the seas, or the geological forces shaping the earth. In effect, then, Agur asked: ‘Do you know the name or family line of any man who has done these things?’ We must answer no!
Thus, we have to look outside the human sphere to find one who has the superhuman power to control natural forces. We are not, though, limited to learning about him by observing his accomplishments. (Romans 1:20) This is because he has, as it were, descended with information about himself and his dealings. He has provided specific information. He did this, for example, when he ‘descended’ to give the Law to Moses on Mount Sinai.
He has also helped his servants to appreciate his meaningful name, Jehovah. Later, he identified his Son, who was named Jesus and who literally descended from heaven with additional information about the Creator.
We must answers " no human knows" as the question was about knowledge. Suggesting he can have one.
Sam Shamoun is very arrogant and acts like a scholar even though he is not. Thanks for exposing himg.
@@joshuacromley7439 Sam violates teachings of Christ in all of his videos and needs to be call out. He insults people's mothers for no reason. He is a terrible individual.
@@joshuacromley7439 dude just shut up. If you were really concerned about acting Christ like you would argue against Sam. Btw I am NOT a christian anymore. Biblical scholarship destroyed my faith. So your talking is nonsense to me.
@@joshuacromley7439But I don't even believe in jebus
@joshuacromley7439 I find the 'message' of Substitutional Atonement to be reprehensible. I also find almost zero 'morality' in the bible or the traditions and/or history of the church
@@joshuacromley7439 Good morality is not acting like the Abrahamic god.
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*This website is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.* I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along.
*It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill.* For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).
God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife!
*Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!* In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered
The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). ***This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.***
***Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.*** If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself. *Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven:* For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12). *I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.*
The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.
*And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:* It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17). There are many more quotes on this topic at my Do Not Ignore the Old Testament web page.
*If you follow the links on this site you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers.*
www.evilbible.com/
Watch *"Context!!!!!!"* by NonStampCollector
(A good video for believers who try to rationalise Biblical atrocities and immorality by saying "Out of context".)
I watched the whole vid but for me, that verse clearly telling us the truth that there is indeed the Son Of God. "The Messiah"
Only one problem with that John 3:13 Jesus literally quotes this passage. So 🤷🏽♂️. Man you over educated over thinking high minded man, not able to allow scripture speak.
Muslims do not believe that
God does not have a son
This verses proves otherwise
Moses,satan,David, Solomon,Adam every one is called son of God in old testament. All are messiah?
Can men be called the holy ones?? Did they lay the foundations of the earth?
Did no one do it? God did it obviously. Let’s not distort the word.
Isiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
A child is born who is called Mighty God. The Everlasting Father. You literally can’t make this up. No human is worthy of being called that thus this child is more mere human.
Read the bible as it ought to be read and stop twisting it. God says if any man adds or subtracts from his word, their name will be blotted out of the book of life. Be careful with God. He’s very serious with these things.
Isaiah 53:
1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,and he will divide the spoils with the strong,because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
There are more scriptures to read about the messiah but you’ll close your ears as you want to stay in your belief.
Do you want the truth or do you want religion. Choose God and read his word as plainly as it is written.
@@CristianoRonaldo-li9guI seen this one answer but I will paste it, this is not my answer but I agree with it:
Re: PRO 30:04.
At the surface level, when reading a translation. It's easy to insert translators bias.
EG, The English translation is often rendered ... "What is His name and what is His son's name. If you know" 30:04
This is the English from my Artscroll Tanach. So what does the actual Hebrew say....?
מַה-שְּׁמוֹ וּמַה-שֶּׁם-בְּנוֹ, כִּי תֵדָע (30:04)
ma shemo umah shem beno מַה-שְּׁמוֹ וּמַה-שֶּׁם-בְּנוֹ
What is His name & what is His son's name...... Good translation, no problem
ki tedah כִּי תֵדָע ............
Because you WILL know......... Better translation without bias
One way you "Will Know" the Son's name is via code known as ELS. This is a well known concept within the Jewish world. Such as ELS=49 giving us TORAH in GEN+EXD then HAROT in NUM+DET . The forward & backwards Torah pointing us to LEV where we use an ELS=7 for God's name of YHVH...... So ELS is "everywhere" & not that hard to discover with the right program & computer.
Mishlea / PRO 30:04-07
מִי עָלָה-שָׁמַיִם וַיֵּרַד,
מִי אָסַף-רוּחַ בְּחָפְנָיו מִי צָרַר-מַיִם בַּשִּׂמְלָה--
מִי, הֵקִים כָּל-אַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ:
מַה-שְּׁמוֹ וּמַה-שֶּׁם-בְּנוֹ, כִּי תֵדָע
כָּל-אִמְרַת אֱלוֹהַּ צְרוּפָה; מָגֵן הוּא, לַחֹסִים בּוֹ
אַל-תּוֹסְףְּ עַל-דְּבָרָיו: פֶּן-יוֹכִיחַ בְּךָ וְנִכְזָבְתָּ
שְׁתַּיִם, שָׁאַלְתִּי מֵאִתָּךְ; אַל-תִּמְנַע מִמֶּנִּי, בְּטֶרֶם אָמוּת
When we view this section about "His son's name". 95% of the Jewish world will use the excuse of "Israel is the son" quoting from EXD 04:22
So what does God say....?
Using an ELS=22 & beginning in verse 04 from the word "מִי / mi / who" (מִי, הֵקִים כָּל-אַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ)
We begin the count from the Yod in "mi / מִי" then 22-letters...... Shin / שָׁ. Then 22-letters...... Vav / וּ. Then 22-letters....... Ayin / ע. Then 22-letters....... Shin / שָׁ. Then 22-letters........ Yod / י
What do we get........?
יֵשׁוּעַ שַׁי / Yeshua (is the) gift / Yeshua shy
So now you KNOW the gift that has been given to us all. The name of the Son is......... YESHUA
The Devil can use scripture to lead people astray. This guy is blowing a lot of hot air
You are too mind blinded to see the truth of Jesus
Keep denying as much as you can but the truth is always there just in front of you
Jesus is the Lord
What’s that have to do with proverbs 30:4 not being about jesus? Everything in the Old Testament isn’t about jesus
Can men be called the holy ones?? Did they lay the foundations of the earth?
Did no one do it? God did it obviously. Let’s not distort the word.
Isiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
A child is born who is called Mighty God. The Everlasting Father. You literally can’t make this up. No human is worthy of being called that thus this child is more mere human.
Read the bible as it ought to be read and stop twisting it. God says if any man adds or subtracts from his word, their name will be blotted out of the book of life. Be careful with God. He’s very serious with these things.
Isaiah 53:
1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,and he will divide the spoils with the strong,because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
There are more scriptures to read about the Messiah in the Old Testament.
Do you want the truth or do you want religion. Choose God and read his word as plainly as it is written.
Why don't you debate Sam directly? He's available online daily instead of hiding behind his video.
Funny thing is the Bible according to Paul says people who debate to cause strife won’t inherit the kingdom which is exactly what Sam does. Sam does debates strictly to attack others beliefs when he himself does not know everything
No ur wrong It Is the muslims, the jw witnesses or every other people Who disagree with him that want to debate with him. Sam just answers to their question with the same attitude they have, and yeah It might seems hes arrogant and not patient, even he said so, but of course nobody Is perfect. Also in the in the bible It says to be ready to defend and explain everytime u get asked about your faith and thats what Sam does. Always i the bible by reading the gospels u notice that from our belief Jesus is the only way to Heaven, not Allah, not Buddha ecc.. so if something disagree with the divinity of true living God Jesus Christ of Nazareth then It cannot be from god but fron the Devil. @@sosaflex9152
@@sosaflex9152attack others? Really? You haven't read Matthew 23 ? 😂😂😂it is not about attack. Read!
Could you also do Isaiah 48:16? That's another ambiguous passage that trinitarians interpret as a mention of the Trinity. Could you shed some light on what that verse is about?
The Scripture is saying Elohim (Almighty) has sent YashaYahu (Isaiah) accompanied by his Qodesh Spirit. There is no trinity there and, YashaYahu is affirming that Elohim has placed in him the Spirit of prophesy and not anything else. He also refers to the time of the beginning of his prophesies. Read the verse again over and over and pray over it and YAH, blessed be his Qadosh Name, will give you more wisdom on it.
@@alphonsiusmwila5627Qodesh spirit literally means Holy spirit. Isaiah makes a clear distinction between the Lord and His Spirit and you’re pretending this has nothing to do with the triunity of God while the Holy Spirit and the Lord make up 2/3 of that triunity?? Amazing
Can men be called the holy ones?? Did they lay the foundations of the earth?
Did no one do it? God did it obviously. Let’s not distort the word.
Isiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
A child is born who is called Mighty God. The Everlasting Father. You literally can’t make this up. No human is worthy of being called that thus this child is more mere human.
Read the bible as it ought to be read and stop twisting it. God says if any man adds or subtracts from his word, their name will be blotted out of the book of life. Be careful with God. He’s very serious with these things.
Isaiah 53:
1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. Yet who of his generation protested? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied ; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,and he will divide the spoils with the strong,because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
There are more scriptures to read about the Messiah in the Old Testament.
Do you want the truth or do you want religion. Choose God and read his word as plainly as it is written.
Why do you not debate with him?
So, at the time Proverbs was written, If it was pertaining to "the Messiah" they would've no idea what it was referencing since Jesus wasn't born. Then the reader would say "Wow, this sucks! The entire thing is to be continued? Boo!"
But how could he be wrong? He said, “Boom!’ at the end. 😂
Hail Mothersbaugh!!!
Also....that Shamoun.... what a dork. You are truly doin The Lord's Work, here, sir.
He’s got so many videos, glad Dan is making the arrogant humbled.
I wish I could be confident that they were actually humbled and don't just say, "Nu uh!"
You're taking the Word of a Mormon they don't believe in the Trinity and they're on Par with being as dumb as Jehovah's Witness.
So what does that make you?
Id advise you read the scripture yourself, youll soon find out that one can be humble and wrong at the sametime...lets jus pray God shines light on all of us and be willing to be corrected in righteousness ...Sam might come across as arrogant, i dont always like his approach, but his mostly right theologically
He hasn't humbled anyone as the response is no human knows. Who knows the name of the son of God ? No human knows. Nothing was win. 😂🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 …. Are you joking? Like just trolling? Why would it even ask a question about “his son“ …
Ayeee Sam Shamoun I’d love to see a (formal) debate between you two! Would be fun…
What would be the purpouse of that? Sam is not a scholar, he is an apologist. He is not concerned with understanding the intention behind a given passage, he is concerned with framing information in whatever way he needs to, to reaffirm already existing beliefs.
@@ro.kn.2665 that’s why I said formal, Dan can press him on this issues.
Debate is for lawyers, not scholars. Rhetoric too often indulges in dramaturgy at data's expense.
@@digitaljanus HUH? No it isn’t. I see your concern but scholars can participate in debate when looking at data per the different beliefs WITHIN Christianity…
@@rager4able apologists have little to nothing to offer when it comes to scholarly debates of the bible. they play devils advocate as a way of opening a "maybe the bible is real actually" option and that simply is not what scholarly debates are about.
Thank you for responding to this.
Your "interpretation" of these verses, trying to explain it away, is pathetic! God and Jesus did exactly what's mentioned in these verses! Obviously! Jesus came down (for you) and ascended. These verses are prophetic! And Jesus calmed the wind with his Word!
Thank you for clarifying this it is obvious the answer is God and his son Israel but you might not want to disclose that because it goes against the jeezuz doctrine
So isreal descended and ascended from heaven?
@ the video never said his son descended bro… the son is Israel. Isaiah 53: Israel is suffering servant - Isaiah 41:8, Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 44:1, Isaiah 44:21, Isaiah 45:4, and Isaiah 49:3 explains this
@@IAMDC322 yeah. Isaiah 9 and 53 are obviously prophecying Yashuah.
@@redeemedpoetYTwatcher Isaiah 53:10 “he will see his offspring and prolong his days” jesus didn’t have kids bro.
It’s about Israel
@IAMDC322 we are his children
This is one of the worst takes on a Bible verse I’ve ever heard.
The examples of powers stated within the questions are obviously powers that only God has. More precisely, they are powers that the Angel of Lord/ the Word/the Son has.
In the Old Testament there are distinct personages of God laid out within the text; the Lord, the Angel of the Lord, and the Spirit of the Lord. Yes, the triunity of God is established in the OT. The Shekinah, the manifestation of God in the physical world. The Angel of the Lord (also the Word or Arm of the Lord) is the person of God that interacts with the material world and even created the material world which was spoken into existence.
Once one understands this, such a verse takes on a much deeper meaning, because the examples of powers given are powers that the Son has. This is why John said “the Word became flesh”. This is why God finished the line of questioning with “and what is his son’s name”. He added “if thou canst tell” to emphasis that the Son’s name has not yet been revealed.
The notion that God gave revelation according to the dictates of the Israelites’ preconceived ideas is ridiculous. The Israelites were regularly rejecting God’s will and even murdered their own profits.
It mentions the son of god . Stop overthinking stuff dude 🤣
Great explanation, and even the "son" in Proverbs has a small s not like the new testament that has a S relates to the Son of God.
I love Dan! He's just Groovey! Can you imagine if all the teachers of your life were of this quality? Sock it to me!
Isiah 9:6🌝
Isiah 9:6
Isiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
All prophesies are one thing to their present context, and quote another to those who see a fulfillment later. And?
This point should be patently obvious for anyone who has studied the OT and the NT in detail but he completely ignores it. Bizarre
Proverbs 30:1 (Tanakh) original
the words of the man concerning, "God is with me; yea, God is with me, and I will be able."
God is with us = Immanuel
This is left out of the more modern versions of the Old Testament
Say what you will and even if Sam is wrong he still answered the question “why is there no mention of a son?” Sam simply let the man himself point out that a son is indeed mentioned. Doesn’t mean he’s right about WHO but a son is absolutely mentioned and that was the man’s question
Jacob also wanted to know his name in Genesis 32:29.
Who thinks Psalms and Proverbs are theological treatises that lay down the Word of God?
Who gets their theology from poetry?
I am a trinitarian pastor and I've been refuting for years the idea that Proverbs 30:4 is speaking of the Son of God.
Just imagine you as a rabbinic Jew you are not sure who the text is referring to. Is it Davidic king or Israel.???. You cant make any sense of your own scriptures if the name is davidic kind or Israel and you expect us to believe you?.
But wait a minute coz there is a catch.
To begin with
Verse 3 says : I have not learned wisdom , nor have i attained to the knowledge of the holy One. ( Hebrew translation is HOLY ONES not holy one; what was you rabbis hiding.
This verse alone points to the final answer of who is his name together with his son as the holy ones.
Surely davidic king or king solomon or Israel cannot be holy like God.
" Who has gone to heaven and come down? According to you= answer is no one
Whose hands have gathered up the wind? No one
Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? No one
Who has established all the ends of the earth? No one ( as if all the ends of the earth established themselves)
What is his name? Davidic king or Israel
What is the name of his son ? Davidic king or Israel.
Do you even think you are making sense??
The last part asking
Who established all the ends of the earth? _________
A. Davidic king. B. Israel. C. God
What is his name? ____________
A. Davidic king B. Israel. C. Yahweh
Even a kindergarten kid can't miss this one but only a grown up like you gives a wrong answer.
In one sentence . What is his name, and what is the name of his Son?.
If His name is Yahweh. Is it in order to establish the name of the creator in one sentence and include a human being as his son in that sentence?. Did Israel or Davidic king establish all the ends of the world also?.
Dan, you said it yourself "who have ascended up to heaven and came back down..., what is his name and what is the name of his son",
you tell me "who have ascended to heaven and came back down" since we know that no one entered heaven before jesus (as a human in flesh) as we know from the OT that no one entered heaven before jesus because they couldnt keep the law fully and no one was sinless except christ himself, so then it was jesus who came to earth => went to sheol to bring the people who waited in a place called sheol into heaven => went back to earth after 3 days to bring the good news to the people.
Nonsensical yet in the bible it is full of predictions. The proverb is a prediction
Thank you.
Thanks for this video it is very helpful. I can now add King and Messiah As Son of God by Adela Yarbro Collins and John J. Collins to my library. You have saved me from Trinitarians, Messianic Jews, and Oneness Pentecostal indoctrination.😅
Book mentioned: King and Messiah as Son of God by Collins and Collins
In Israel, the King is a son of God and an anointed one. It is impossible for a messiah, to not be a king, not be anointed and not be a saviour. That assumption is ridiculous.
The bible is full of prophecies so of course the people would not know the meaning at that time . But now it's pretty obviously a reference to jesus . And jesus mentions it in John 3:13 . The proverb 30 also mentions having control of the wind and water . Well jesus commanded the four winds to bring forth lazarath from the tomb and also calmed the storm . He controls water by walking on it and turning it into wine . There are clearly references to jesus in proverbs 30 .
Not a fan of Sam but the cartoon characters on your shirt are realer than your theology
I checked in Hebrew what is the explanation and found it so here is another one.
This is king Solomon speaking here(they say he wrote all proverbs) and is named here “agur bin yeka” which is a nickname that means “stored knowledge puked” and it is not a real man’s name because Ben means son and bin comes from Bina which means wisdom (sorry for my English,there’s probably a better word than puked )the meaning is he gathered up so much knowledge and eventually started teaching it. This is so you know around what age and level of wisdom he was speaking from(probably his peak or near it)
And then he (agur,Solomon) is reffering to Moses because Moses gave do’s and donts for the future kings of Israel to come and Solomon didn’t follow them all and thought that he sinned when he got wiser, so he is praising moses and the questions are reffering to Moses that went up to heaven and back and cloaking the water is not the best translation but it is speaking about how he split the sea and then Solomon (agur) asks is there anybody like him? If there is I would like to know his name and his sons name.
Hope this helps and don’t forget to be peaceful and good to one another because we are all gods children and a father would like his children to get along with each other first than getting along with him❤if anybody got a question that wants to be checked in Hebrew your welcome to ask
1. Messianic prophecies are over the Bible even if people dont know Jesus.
2. not every scholar agrees with each other so you have to study the text + context.
3. The context is explaining Godly creation, so of course the "his name" is at least God/Yawyeh and his son must be Jesus based on other Old Testament prophecies + Jesus life and reference.
All the writer of the old testament points to one person to come. All the writers of the new testament is all about Jesus. All the books of the Bible wasn't just picked from random sources or knowledge to be thrown together. They were are inspired by the Holy Spirit because they believed in God the Father who taught them of God the Son and then to those who walked and ate with Jesus in the flesh. So I don't believe Sam Shamoun is wrong.
We are still waiting on the Messiah. The Hebrews at the time of Jesus knew, more than anything else, what the Messiah was. That's why Jesus had only 12 disciples - because the entirety of the Jewish nation rejected this false prophet.
And they will be waiting forever.
"whats the name of his son? you should know?" No one would know Jesus wasnt born... if the author is hiding this info why?
I would love to see it go down with Sam Shamoun
Shamoun is good against Islam and in a few interesting points against Jews, Jehova's Witnesses and so on, but he would absolutely crumble against any critical scholar. He can't defend his own beliefs, but only expose inconsistencies in other similarly fragile belief systems.
Very good work ❤
No.. still wrong explanation of u...
u assumed that its not referencing Messiah or Son of God "but" the verses clearly shows ur word by word -- not rhetorical.... the txt clearly states that God is multipersonal and yet one in essence...
that first born son - read the context!
If the response is no human knows then he can have a son. Because who knows the name of his ? He has no son. Not no human knows. No humans knows suggest he actually has one.
What did you say?
It’s completely clear that this is about God. This guy is so desperate not to be believe. I’m sure he’s intelligent. He sounds it. “Wise fool”
Proverbs saids " fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom!", now the truth is those who truly fear God, would of course follow those whom God sends " blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" Why would true faith in God, cause people to want to kill those he sends? Think about the truth! ... God himself would protect those he loves! ( read the book of job! Also read how God raptured two holy prophets Enoch and Elijah!, and even christians claim they are loved so much they all will be raptured!, but they also claim those who worship God! Will be punished? Why would God punish those who love and fear him?.... read the jewish scriptures and learn from men like rabbi tovia singer!
Who has ascended up to heaven and come back down?
Adapa, the literary source for the Ioannus (Yonah) character in the bible.
Whose hands have gathered up the wind?
Adapa, who gathered up the south wind.
Who has gathered up the waters in a cloak?
If you stop the south winds from blowing you will have fog.
Who has been to the ends of the Earth?
The abgal of Enki are legendary sages who came from either the mediterranean or Red Sea. These guys are mentioned in the context of the SKL, though not the first list, still rather early.
Proverbs just tells you one thing, The Yehudite priests and scribes were familiar with contemporary myths. The story of Adapa and the South Wind was known from the 14th century onward, so just before the LBAC, the davidic kingdom is from just after the LBAC. I mean if the story of genesis is pinging these mythological elements from Eridu genesis myth would you expect them to ignore the Adapa myths. The thing is we already know this. What the scholarship is yet timid to say is that the myths tend to focus on one divine being and tend to ignore most others despite rather direct reference to one other divine being and his home city in the bible.
Lets go through this again:
Adapa legendarily comes from the coast of northern Isra'el
Beth Lahmi (egypt Lakhmi) means house of guardian of Enki, putative Bethlehem from the late middle/late bronze age.
At least in th 6th and 7th centuries BCE Yathrib (Medinah) was known to be a site of sages which had existed for 3 centuries. The last Babylonian king (scribes thereof), Nabonidus, gives specific reference to Yathrib, as he returned to Haran with the intent of replcing Marduk with the wisdom god Suen [remember that Yahwist belief outside of Hezekiahs Judea was still thoroughly polytheistic]. There remained Jewish independence in the city until the time of Mohammad who nick-named the city the Enlightened city, and forbade the speaking if Yathrib as a Amelek. Yathrib was probably always a Yahwist city, the Amelek title probably comes from sectarian divides between Samarian Yahwist and the apkal from Yathrib.
When you understand mysticism you will understand the language of the mystics, these tropes are measures of power among the mystics. Adapa has the power to be an ultimate divine, but he rejects it in favor of his cult. This is a statement over the use of mystical power and magic. When gilgimish goes to the other immortal to gain everlasting life he is queried, why do you seek this? Is not life meant to be lived through all its seasons? This is hundreds of years before greek philosophical movement and you have a man struggling over the question of what is a good life?
But Adapa had the power to be a god and rejects this. Again what we see in mesoptamian literature is that kings who are powerful and try to promote themselves as gods, none the less die and in in their wake is the collapse of their dynasties (Naram sin). Gilgamesh goes to the ends of the earth to find the fountain of youth, but in the end learns the most important lesson in life, not extending life. As for Adapa, abgal of Enki are not meant to be served but to serve, it is through service that there life gains value
"As they were leaving, he began to speak to the multitudes about Yochanan, What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed being shaken by the wind?"
What pushed Nabonidus into the desert? his love of Marduk? It is not wealth and power that great kings seek out this desert. What really happened to Assyria, how was it so great that it fell so splendedly burned to the ground all its major cities. Its snatched defeat from the hands of victory, its god was the most powerful god on Earth and on one day there and the next day gone. If Assyria did not have the magic, then what is the magic, does it even exist?
@@mithras666 Kipp Davis has a video on the Danielic sources of the DSS, in this he discusses Nabonidus and DSS sources on the desert "Jewish" sages. He reflects on how the book of Daniel is crafted from older source material.
I think Derek Lambert has some videos on Adapa and the apkallu.
Neal Sedlak (Gnostic Informant) has videos pertaining to Jonah and his connection to Adapa.
The answer to the question is Nabonidus took a deep look at Marduk and saw Asshur. That is because Assyria tried to match their god myths to Marduk, and were better at it. If the god of Assyria is more powerful than the Babylonian power god, what hope did Nabonidus have that his Babylon would survive. By the time he reached Haran the answer was all but on his doorstep.
The Enki cult survived as long as it was bathed in a system of polytheism, and in the levant El was not a supreme god, his cognate temple in Akkad and Sumer was stripped from him, his destiny was to live on mountains, his priest watching upon the wilderness. In this system the esoteric cult could survive in isolation as long as no god reigned supreme. Remember that Marduk stripped the powers and titles of his father Enki, Asshur was Marduks Mimic. What was the sin of Ninevah? Why did even the cows need to wear sackcloth? Who was the supreme god of Ninevah and what happened to Isra'el in that gods wake? What truely happened to Ninevah, its fate is worse than the prophesy of Jonah.
I suspect that the cult produced teachers that tried to make their way to Akkad and Sumer only to learn that only Assyria was expanding and Babylon was run by aramean tribesmen. As a consequence they probably recognized Israel as crudely reverent to the old gods and tried to teach them about Ia, and of course without a writing system or a sophisticated priesthood it would not reconstitute Babylon. Had Israel and the 10 kings waited for Babylon to get its act together they may have defeated Assyria in the 9th century.
So we are counting a system of belief that begins 5460 BCE that grew in complexity until the LBAC, out of which came powerful empires and even more amazing collapses. In 530 BCE this system of social organization begins its long decay which ends in the 7th century AD.
So today, we squabble over a piece of land and who & when build the next temple that the high god of Isra'el did not have, want or need. The great sages did not need a shining city on a hill. Exodus 20, how to structure practice of worship . . .not the wailing wall.
All three of the Abrahamic faiths are grabbing at each others throat either suffocating or resuscitating each other to sustain this falseness. None are eternal.
This guy can easily manipulate the truth. Brothers be careful.
Mark 8:15
15 “Be careful,” Jesus warned them. “Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and that of Herod.”
Jesus warns His disciples to be vigilant against the "leaven" of the Pharisees and Herod-a metaphor for their corrupt teachings and influence.
Yeshua ✝️ is the only God dont try to doubt his devinity
The verse is clears enough don't require any explanation...When u clueless about something just sharrapp...stap making a fool of U..
"Kadoosh"
- Kung-fu Panda
Dan fails to mention the bangwagon fallacy he has alot of people agreeing with him but evidence, Evidence of course contradict dan like it always does, scholars say that john referneces proverbs 30:4
Proverbs is a collection of collections. It is a part of the Jewish Wisdom literature, but, in my mind, speaks in a kind of poetry. I don't think these passages can be understood by simple, one-time reading. Like all texts (poetry especially) one can find one's answers, but more often one finds more questions. Keep asking, keep reflecting, keep questioning, keep finding one's place in them.
Are you telling people to keep questioning until they come to the same conclusions that you have? And if they don't come to your conclusions - say that they conclude that the scholars who have seen, read and studied ancient copies that have contradictions, inaccuracies, additions and redactions that your Bible has edited out - would you consider that those people are wrong?
People will come to their own conclusions. We're not talking about histories here, or technical manuals. Proverbs is a strange collection of collections that might just have well been left to one side of the Christian Bible. But the early Christian 'deciders' had too much respect for the Jewish texts to ignore them. The only Bibles that are 'mine' are the ones I own here at the house.@@Noneya5555
@@monteirolobato6830 So you don't think that the people who follow Dan's channels in a sincere desire to partake of his scholarship haven't already come to their own conclusions?
People come for all sorts of reasons. I suspect some people come here to make fun of Christian believers.@@Noneya5555
Just imagine you as a rabbinic Jew you are not sure who the text is referring to. Is it Davidic king or Israel.???. You cant make any sense of your own scriptures if the name is davidic kind or Israel and you expect us to believe you?.
But wait a minute coz there is a catch.
To begin with
Verse 3 says : I have not learned wisdom , nor have i attained to the knowledge of the holy One. ( Hebrew translation is HOLY ONES not holy one; what was you rabbis hiding.
This verse alone points to the final answer of who is his name together with his son as the holy ones.
Surely davidic king or king solomon or Israel cannot be holy like God.
" Who has gone to heaven and come down? According to you= answer is no one
Whose hands have gathered up the wind? No one
Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? No one
Who has established all the ends of the earth? No one ( as if all the ends of the earth established themselves)
What is his name? Davidic king or Israel
What is the name of his son ? Davidic king or Israel.
Do you even think you are making sense??
The last part asking
Who established all the ends of the earth? _________
A. Davidic king. B. Israel. C. God
What is his name? ____________
A. Davidic king B. Israel. C. Yahweh
Even a kindergarten kid can't miss this one but only a grown up like you gives a wrong answer.
In one sentence . What is his name, and what is the name of his Son?.
If His name is Yahweh. Is it in order to establish the name of the creator in one sentence and include a human being as his son in that sentence?. Did Israel or Davidic king establish all the ends of the world also?.
This is wrong sir! Just read it for what it days
It's not nosensical, because it is prophecy.
Jesus was born flesh in this world therefore the earth would be the default place when he says who has ascended; JOHN 20 Verse 17, Jesus said to Mary not to touch him, because he has not yet ascended to his Father, your Father then Jesus was seen by all the disciples a few days after and they were able to touch where he was pierced
Who knows the name of the son of God ? No human knows. Doesn't solve anything and actually leave the place for a son of God. 😂🤣
The jewish publication society prints the jewish torah and jewish tanakh! Rabbi tovia singer can answer all questions about jewish scriptures! ( now the truth is that God knows the truth!, while many versions of the bible have been changed or misinterpreted!) The truth is the truth! Just read Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven and earth!, ... read the first verse of the holy bible! Understand that God himself created and formed the heavens and the earth 🌎! ...
God made Flesh…
Not been possible? The First Mention Of Messiah Is In Genesis 😂
Thanks for the reply. Would you be interested in debating @smartchristians on the trinity vs oneness.
God and Jesus the son of GOD.
Don't know about Proverbs 30:4, but Austin 3:16 does mention a son of a bitch!
Reading the whole Proverb your explanation does not make sense at all. Just saying.
No, it does make sense because the point is that no man created the earth
Bridgeway Bible Commentary
Agur, some of whose sayings are collected here, was apparently a well known wisdom teacher in the Palestine region. He begins his instruction with a confession that though he longs to know God he cannot, because he is merely a man. No human being can do the great works God has done. *Agur challenges his hearers to tell him the name of any person (or the name of that person’s son, if they prefer) who has been to heaven and returned to tell people what God is like...*
@@JopJio it was a rhetorical question with God being the answer. Of course no man could have done those things, but only God could. Notice the 5th verse is the context.
@@EdtheTraveler Pro 30 2 *Surely I am only a brute, not a man; I do not have human understanding.*
*3 I have not learned wisdom, nor have I attained to the knowledge of the Holy One.*
*“Every word of God is flawless;*
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
*6 Do not add to his words,*
*or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar*
he is challenging his audience because they claim to know the truth and add words onto God's words and make stuff up about him.
@@EdtheTraveler He basically says to his audience: if no man ever went up to heaven and came back, do not to make claims about God you can not back up, otherwise God will expose you.
"Moses ascended to God" (Exodus 19:3).
Film at 11:00. Oh, wait... 🤣
😜