One of my best sessions I ever ran was co-dming. Having 2 dwarf NPCs bantering with each other and actually just having a conversation where we were both in character was hilarious and made the whole session.
I was in a game (online) that's players came from 6 countries and had about 12 players. One DM played for 12 hours and the other about 8 hours. Throughout the day different players came in and out of the session. It was pretty awesome and was run in about 3-4 languages. We played for about 2 months straight before we got party wiped. I know it's a bit different than what you had explained, but figured I'd share.
Co-DMing sounds like one of those things that could work, but only in some rare scenarios. You’d need to have two people that have the same general game philosophy, are good enough at communicating to iron out all the details of having two people running, and are willing to put enough time into the game that their Co-DM has enough to work with. I think meeting all those conditions would be pretty rare. Even if you get all of that, you’d probably end up in a situation where you ask yourself if you’d rather Co-DM one game or play in one and DM the other. That’s where I’m at with a friend of mine. I DM for him, he DMs for me. And while certainly there are people who prefer to DM, they aren’t the majority. I’d rather be playing a game than running a higher-quality one. (Of note, I have Co-DM’d with this individual before, particularly when I was teaching him to DM. I let him run most of the story while I handled encounters and details. It worked alright, so I’m not saying it’s impossible.)
My second D&D game was with an online group. The DM had an "assistant DM." It was a nightmare, too many cooks in the kitchen, blatant favoritism, and unchecked ego. I lasted 2 sessions, before my character was killed and I took it as my cue to leave. I'm sure it works for some folks, but I'm kinda apprehensive.
While I'm not trying to discredit your experience, I have co-DMed twice and both times went well. The first time I was the assistant, only taking center stage during combat and stopping a player when they triggered some kind of event. The second time was when I was giving a friend a peek behind the screen, I was the primary DM, however they basically ran all things NPCs. While I ran the game as I usually would, just without having to worry about those pesky NPCs. It's all about finding the correct dynamic between player, DM and second DM. If two of those do not mesh well together, Someone needs to change their role.
From someone who's been doing Sub-DMing for a while, I can say Co-DMing in full always sounded pretty intimidating. After hearing these suggestions though, I'm probably going to give it a try. Where as Sub-DMing (supplementing a campaign with monsters, tactics, narrative suggestions, etc.) while still being a player has had its highs and lows (high: I get to help take a load off of my partner with stuff I've tested and know the ins and outs of. lows: I sometimes know the big plot twists weeks in advanced). My table is pretty close at this point and I would love to give it a shot with some of them, and a LOT of them are wanting to finally break into story telling / DMing. This is really interesting advice! I hope you're not getting burned out from this TH-cam thing yet, cause your content is solid!
This is a cool solution to one of the problems I've faced when DMing, multiple NPC's talking to each other or to the party at the same time. Sometimes It's difficult to come up with sensible dialogue on the fly when two (or more) non player characters converse, and it can come out of nowhere thanks to player agency so it's difficult to plan for it. But with two people DMing, it can be easier to improvise dialogue and remember to deliver that important information the party needs or sneak in subtle hints about something.
I just want to say that something I love about your videos is the topical stimmy gifs you use when you don't need to provide a direct visual reference for what you are talking about. It makes your videos all so fun to watch.
So, one thing I ended up doing was handling the mechanical side of things because my min maxing muchkin as knows the rules my heart. So, I ended up making the combats, and handling the rolls while he created the story and did the narration.
My co-DM experiences have all led to disastrous results. Keep in mind this was 2nd Ed. But it's very important you're on the same page, and rule things similarly. You'll get a table of players saying "Well... DM2 said it was ok" when doing actions, etc... hated it. That said, I'm older now and don't have the "teen drama" mindset to deal with, BUT... I don't know anyone who wants to DM (let alone co-DM) so I'm stuck on my own anyways 😜 Also... love your videos! You have very good production quality (and on a relatively new channel!) Looking forward to your next video releases 😃
One of my players is a frequent DM and I lean on him to handle rules clarification and keep complex scenarios moving. There needs to be a lot of trust so there is no favoritism or insider meta-gaming, but it’s working so far.
The one time I thought about co-dm was while I was talking about cyberpunk with one of my friends and we where talking about running simultaneously the realspace and cyberspace.
Been co-dming with one of my friends for a campaign that's been going on for a bit, definitely isn't as stressful and is rather fun as a whole! Highly recommend!
A timely video! I'll be co-DMing after the new year. I'm the experience and have a good handle on the mechanics, my buddy will be DMing for the first time. He's in charge of the main story. He played a lore bard in our last campaign. I'd show him a picture of a monster they might encounter, he'd write-up a description, and I'd roll against his lore skills based on the monster type (Nature, Arcana, etc). If my roll beat his passive skill, I'd run the monster out of the MM. If I rolled lower, I'd change the monster mechanics to match his description, and his character could yell-out tips to the party during encounters. It worked wonderfully, and his monster descriptions were much better then anything WotC publishes.
My experience in co dming was a living nightmare. Not only did we argue about roleplaying in general, we had problems actively aiming, guiding our players. The main DM was strongly leading the party on the rails, whilst i tried to listen into the player's choices. The difference in playstyle led to mayhem on the table. After the session ended, we both agreed to never try and recreate something like that ever again. I wouldn't say it's a bad idea. But the execution needed between the two dms and excessive amounts of self homebrewing nitpicks makes it hard for me to believe anyone should try it. Good video nonetheless! Subbed.
I tried Co-DMing once and it wasn't pleasant experience for me. We played as DMs with my good friend and co-autor. Game itself was ok and our players had fun. But for me it was different: I was obligated to change story and some rules which I prepared. Whole situation reminded my trying to catch fish by bare hands=) I think there are two main reasons why I didn't like co-DMing that time: 1. We have different game phylosophy 2. We didn't prep for this game together That's why I totaly agree with @AHero - comunicate with your co-DM as much as possible. And before the game starts =) Thanks for video! Thanks for your words I maybe will try to co-DM one time)
Advantage #2 is the most important imo and you can get that from a friend that can't even be present, but helps you throw away your crappy ideias and keep the good ones.
I've wanted to give Co-Dming a try for a while, however I personally think it would work best if you have one person be the Head DM and the other be the Second in Command. The reason I say this, is because a large part of DMing isn't just all of the prep that you talked about here, but improvizing mid session. And I personally believe that if it isn't stated beforehand who would make these on the fly decisions, either the game is going to get slowed down having each DM have to conversate multiple times a session, or somebody is eventually going to get hurt when they disagree with something the DM at the moment comes up with. If there is a Head DM and an Assistant DM, this seems much less likely. You still get all of the added benefits that you mentioned here, but you still have one person who is in charge of the main plot.
I co-DMed a twelve-player game. It was great! We could give attention to two players at once, giving everyone the spotlight and speeding up the action. We ended up splitting the party, and it was hilarious! We had a heavily modified generated town map for them to play with. What I didn't expect, was how frequently one group encountered the rest of the party. At one point it was a scooby-doo chase scene where the players were running in and out of buildings to escape and confuse a black dragon. Me and my fellow DM both played up the comedy of the situation and ended up getting the whole party laughing! 10/10 I will do this again.
I've been Co-DM'ing for years, but by that I mean passing off the GM baton after running a handful of sessions and repeating. Different process but many of the same benefits.
With a friend we are being Co-DMs but each one has their own party and the other takes a more support role making it more of a DM and DM-Assistant style during the sessions. In terms of narrative and wordbuilding, it's something where we both take the role of Co-DM and build this world together, where one party has some influence on what happens in the other, but without affecting them much negatively. Maybe one day we will have a session where both parties play together
I've been Co-DM'ing on and off for a year now. Done it with two different people and we haven't run into any issues. We have a rather large group with 7 or 8 players so having two Dam's allows us to split that party a bunch and stops the game from being a slog. Totally reccomend it if you have someone to work with.
I'm just a little confused on how this dynamic works. At first I thought it was one DM running the game and the other could be a player at the table, and they collaborate directly between sessions. Now it sounds like it's two people talking, and another waiting their turn to bring something up. I think this sounds fantastic for dialogue. I found one of the biggest difficulties of DMing was trying to act as a character but still relay all the information I needed to give.
Is there some online tool you use to get those DM strength charts? Curious to see where me and my current DM fall as we actually planned to do something like this.
Sounds great! But we play by my rules! So how about something more like ... Assistant DM? No, no, no that sounds unappealing. How about ... DM internship? No - Executive DM! That sounds important! I can picture it! I write the story and preset the rules and everything and they can ... do important stuff to, I'm sure. "Intern, why is there no Tavern ambiance playing yet?!" "I need 10 interesting NPCs written and with illustrations by saturday!" "Did you give the players a magic item in my absence? This will be noted in your report for sure!"
I would love to have a partner because DMing is shit tons of work, but man would it take a very special type of partnership to make this work without there being too many cooks in the kitchen. The other DM in my group has a wholly different style and worldview than I do, I don't think this would work for us Would love to see an example of this
I was literally in the market for a CoDM a few weeks ago, but something stopped me from asking. Does anyone with availability Mondays and Tuesdays wanna get together and talk this concept over? My DM style is a fondness for RAW and Immersion, with a respectable amount of documented Homebrew attached. I, like both the -5e creator and Giffyglyph, want to improve upon the bones of 5e and create a supplement that elevates the gameplay. I already have a group of mostly fresh newbies who are willing to work with me, but none of them want to fully step up to help me keep it all running. At the very least, you would be more than welcome to steal some ideas I have, and at very best, we're fast friends who run a damn good game of Dungeons and Dragons.If this interests you, leave a like or reply and I'll DM you
4:14 I don't understand the diagram. Why is a combination of worldbilding with roleplay or worldbuilding with immersion better than immersion with roleplay?
Neither combinations are inherently better than the other, but immersion comes in many forms beyond things that might seem apparent. I for example, contribute a lot of the art, sketches, and character design for the campaign and the world as a way to make the existing world-building more immersive.
Not to knock it without ever having tried it, but it just feels like co-dm’ing would lead to awkwardness. Or one dm getting bored because they’re only handling mechanics and that’s literally the busy work. I don’t know.
My best friend just started DMing a few months ago, and always floats the idea of coDming with me. I flatly refuse, because 1) I want to be a player again, and get to join that adventure 2) Personally I'm not a fan of this idea, but there are some great merits put forth in this video, and 3) I feel everyone whose played DND for a little while should take a crack at DMing. Maybe not a long campaign or anything like that, but get a chance to tell their own story, and I think coDming makes it "our story" not "my story". Points two and three very much run together and are VERY subjective, and point one is a me thing for sure. My compromise to this however, I have helped them make many magical items, we bounce ideas off one another, if they ever have questions about anything I try to give my thoughts (I am ready to help with a rules question), but in turn I don't know what's going to happen in terms of plot or future events, and I respect that ultimately they are the DM and they have the last call in all things. I think that last point is the the deal breaker for me. While it is normal to have disagreements, who makes that final call? Through good communication and being reasonable you can get there, but what's the breaking point? Maybe I'm just a jerk, but I feel like it takes a certain mind set to be a DM, and when you're in that position a level of ownership is important, and with a coDM it can fall into one person either taking over, or causing a general divide, or worse yet one person getting lazy. Maybe not having a coDM is the solution, but having an inside player. That could have its own issues too, but I feel it offers less problems in the long run.
One of my best sessions I ever ran was co-dming. Having 2 dwarf NPCs bantering with each other and actually just having a conversation where we were both in character was hilarious and made the whole session.
I would love to see a streamed game with you and your co-DM as an example on how to run a session together with a second person
I was in a game (online) that's players came from 6 countries and had about 12 players. One DM played for 12 hours and the other about 8 hours. Throughout the day different players came in and out of the session. It was pretty awesome and was run in about 3-4 languages. We played for about 2 months straight before we got party wiped. I know it's a bit different than what you had explained, but figured I'd share.
Neat concept
That is insanely impressive
Co-DMing sounds like one of those things that could work, but only in some rare scenarios.
You’d need to have two people that have the same general game philosophy, are good enough at communicating to iron out all the details of having two people running, and are willing to put enough time into the game that their Co-DM has enough to work with. I think meeting all those conditions would be pretty rare.
Even if you get all of that, you’d probably end up in a situation where you ask yourself if you’d rather Co-DM one game or play in one and DM the other. That’s where I’m at with a friend of mine. I DM for him, he DMs for me. And while certainly there are people who prefer to DM, they aren’t the majority. I’d rather be playing a game than running a higher-quality one.
(Of note, I have Co-DM’d with this individual before, particularly when I was teaching him to DM. I let him run most of the story while I handled encounters and details. It worked alright, so I’m not saying it’s impossible.)
I mean, it happens all the time in the LARP scene. You have a Head ST (DM/Director/whatever) and Assistants or Genre Coords or Whatever.
My second D&D game was with an online group. The DM had an "assistant DM." It was a nightmare, too many cooks in the kitchen, blatant favoritism, and unchecked ego. I lasted 2 sessions, before my character was killed and I took it as my cue to leave. I'm sure it works for some folks, but I'm kinda apprehensive.
While I'm not trying to discredit your experience,
I have co-DMed twice and both times went well.
The first time I was the assistant, only taking center stage during combat and stopping a player when they triggered some kind of event.
The second time was when I was giving a friend a peek behind the screen,
I was the primary DM, however they basically ran all things NPCs.
While I ran the game as I usually would, just without having to worry about those pesky NPCs.
It's all about finding the correct dynamic between player, DM and second DM.
If two of those do not mesh well together,
Someone needs to change their role.
From someone who's been doing Sub-DMing for a while, I can say Co-DMing in full always sounded pretty intimidating. After hearing these suggestions though, I'm probably going to give it a try. Where as Sub-DMing (supplementing a campaign with monsters, tactics, narrative suggestions, etc.) while still being a player has had its highs and lows (high: I get to help take a load off of my partner with stuff I've tested and know the ins and outs of. lows: I sometimes know the big plot twists weeks in advanced). My table is pretty close at this point and I would love to give it a shot with some of them, and a LOT of them are wanting to finally break into story telling / DMing.
This is really interesting advice! I hope you're not getting burned out from this TH-cam thing yet, cause your content is solid!
This is a cool solution to one of the problems I've faced when DMing, multiple NPC's talking to each other or to the party at the same time. Sometimes It's difficult to come up with sensible dialogue on the fly when two (or more) non player characters converse, and it can come out of nowhere thanks to player agency so it's difficult to plan for it. But with two people DMing, it can be easier to improvise dialogue and remember to deliver that important information the party needs or sneak in subtle hints about something.
I just want to say that something I love about your videos is the topical stimmy gifs you use when you don't need to provide a direct visual reference for what you are talking about. It makes your videos all so fun to watch.
So, one thing I ended up doing was handling the mechanical side of things because my min maxing muchkin as knows the rules my heart. So, I ended up making the combats, and handling the rolls while he created the story and did the narration.
My co-DM experiences have all led to disastrous results. Keep in mind this was 2nd Ed. But it's very important you're on the same page, and rule things similarly. You'll get a table of players saying "Well... DM2 said it was ok" when doing actions, etc... hated it.
That said, I'm older now and don't have the "teen drama" mindset to deal with, BUT... I don't know anyone who wants to DM (let alone co-DM) so I'm stuck on my own anyways 😜
Also... love your videos! You have very good production quality (and on a relatively new channel!) Looking forward to your next video releases 😃
One of my players is a frequent DM and I lean on him to handle rules clarification and keep complex scenarios moving. There needs to be a lot of trust so there is no favoritism or insider meta-gaming, but it’s working so far.
I was going to comment about how this is more difficult than it seems, but you covered that in the latter part. Nice video!
The one time I thought about co-dm was while I was talking about cyberpunk with one of my friends and we where talking about running simultaneously the realspace and cyberspace.
Glad to hear you are pacing yourself on your videos! The content is great but take as much time as you need to produce it
All of your videos have been such a breathe of fresh air and really inspiring.
Been co-dming with one of my friends for a campaign that's been going on for a bit, definitely isn't as stressful and is rather fun as a whole! Highly recommend!
A timely video! I'll be co-DMing after the new year. I'm the experience and have a good handle on the mechanics, my buddy will be DMing for the first time. He's in charge of the main story. He played a lore bard in our last campaign. I'd show him a picture of a monster they might encounter, he'd write-up a description, and I'd roll against his lore skills based on the monster type (Nature, Arcana, etc). If my roll beat his passive skill, I'd run the monster out of the MM. If I rolled lower, I'd change the monster mechanics to match his description, and his character could yell-out tips to the party during encounters. It worked wonderfully, and his monster descriptions were much better then anything WotC publishes.
I had this idea a while back.
I've always wanted to run a Demogorgon fight with 2 DMs, each DM acting out one of the Demogorgon's heads.
Poly DMs the world over suddenly going "Ohhhhhh, yeah we *could* do that." XD
Great video, really got me thinking about co dming and its benefits
My experience in co dming was a living nightmare.
Not only did we argue about roleplaying in general, we had problems actively aiming, guiding our players. The main DM was strongly leading the party on the rails, whilst i tried to listen into the player's choices. The difference in playstyle led to mayhem on the table.
After the session ended, we both agreed to never try and recreate something like that ever again.
I wouldn't say it's a bad idea. But the execution needed between the two dms and excessive amounts of self homebrewing nitpicks makes it hard for me to believe anyone should try it.
Good video nonetheless! Subbed.
there are many horror stories and many success stories
it is NOT for everyone and that's OK
I tried Co-DMing once and it wasn't pleasant experience for me. We played as DMs with my good friend and co-autor. Game itself was ok and our players had fun. But for me it was different: I was obligated to change story and some rules which I prepared. Whole situation reminded my trying to catch fish by bare hands=)
I think there are two main reasons why I didn't like co-DMing that time:
1. We have different game phylosophy
2. We didn't prep for this game together
That's why I totaly agree with @AHero - comunicate with your co-DM as much as possible. And before the game starts =)
Thanks for video! Thanks for your words I maybe will try to co-DM one time)
Advantage #2 is the most important imo and you can get that from a friend that can't even be present, but helps you throw away your crappy ideias and keep the good ones.
Awe man! I hate that you are gunna upload less, but I understand! Make sure you are good man!
I've wanted to give Co-Dming a try for a while, however I personally think it would work best if you have one person be the Head DM and the other be the Second in Command. The reason I say this, is because a large part of DMing isn't just all of the prep that you talked about here, but improvizing mid session. And I personally believe that if it isn't stated beforehand who would make these on the fly decisions, either the game is going to get slowed down having each DM have to conversate multiple times a session, or somebody is eventually going to get hurt when they disagree with something the DM at the moment comes up with. If there is a Head DM and an Assistant DM, this seems much less likely. You still get all of the added benefits that you mentioned here, but you still have one person who is in charge of the main plot.
I co-DMed a twelve-player game. It was great! We could give attention to two players at once, giving everyone the spotlight and speeding up the action. We ended up splitting the party, and it was hilarious!
We had a heavily modified generated town map for them to play with. What I didn't expect, was how frequently one group encountered the rest of the party. At one point it was a scooby-doo chase scene where the players were running in and out of buildings to escape and confuse a black dragon. Me and my fellow DM both played up the comedy of the situation and ended up getting the whole party laughing!
10/10 I will do this again.
I've been Co-DM'ing for years, but by that I mean passing off the GM baton after running a handful of sessions and repeating. Different process but many of the same benefits.
Lol. Session negative one. Pretty soon we're going to have sessions for imaginary numbers.
With a friend we are being Co-DMs but each one has their own party and the other takes a more support role making it more of a DM and DM-Assistant style during the sessions. In terms of narrative and wordbuilding, it's something where we both take the role of Co-DM and build this world together, where one party has some influence on what happens in the other, but without affecting them much negatively.
Maybe one day we will have a session where both parties play together
As a DM who runs his sessions with the most bare bones of a plan and a whole lot of improv... sounds like a great idea
Some good ass energy in this intro 👌
How did you come up with the stats about your DM style? Did you rank them on instinct and experience or did you take some type of quiz?
I would also love to know this!!!
YES, I was about to comment this
I've been Co-DM'ing on and off for a year now. Done it with two different people and we haven't run into any issues.
We have a rather large group with 7 or 8 players so having two Dam's allows us to split that party a bunch and stops the game from being a slog.
Totally reccomend it if you have someone to work with.
I've been talking about doing a co-dm campaign with a friend for years. XD
Sounds interesting as an idea
I can do it with my brother.
We basically already have done it a few times.
I did in my first campaign ever, it went right.
Co-DMing sounds like start of love story.
I'm just a little confused on how this dynamic works. At first I thought it was one DM running the game and the other could be a player at the table, and they collaborate directly between sessions. Now it sounds like it's two people talking, and another waiting their turn to bring something up.
I think this sounds fantastic for dialogue. I found one of the biggest difficulties of DMing was trying to act as a character but still relay all the information I needed to give.
Co-DMing is beautiful
Is there some online tool you use to get those DM strength charts? Curious to see where me and my current DM fall as we actually planned to do something like this.
I never co-DMed, but it seems really interesting. Maybe I'll my DM someday if we can run a short campaing like that.
Sounds great! But we play by my rules! So how about something more like ... Assistant DM? No, no, no that sounds unappealing. How about ... DM internship? No - Executive DM! That sounds important! I can picture it! I write the story and preset the rules and everything and they can ... do important stuff to, I'm sure.
"Intern, why is there no Tavern ambiance playing yet?!" "I need 10 interesting NPCs written and with illustrations by saturday!" "Did you give the players a magic item in my absence? This will be noted in your report for sure!"
preemptive comment
I GMed with another person twice and soon I will do it a third time. All these Tipps are very good. If you have a friend you should give it a try too.
as someone who actually knows a DM who isnt associated with my games, people do care about games their not involved in.
we swap stories every week.
6:34 awh, darn. :c
Good tip
I want to see best moments of co-DMing party stream.
I would love to have a partner because DMing is shit tons of work, but man would it take a very special type of partnership to make this work without there being too many cooks in the kitchen. The other DM in my group has a wholly different style and worldview than I do, I don't think this would work for us
Would love to see an example of this
I was literally in the market for a CoDM a few weeks ago, but something stopped me from asking. Does anyone with availability Mondays and Tuesdays wanna get together and talk this concept over? My DM style is a fondness for RAW and Immersion, with a respectable amount of documented Homebrew attached. I, like both the -5e creator and Giffyglyph, want to improve upon the bones of 5e and create a supplement that elevates the gameplay. I already have a group of mostly fresh newbies who are willing to work with me, but none of them want to fully step up to help me keep it all running.
At the very least, you would be more than welcome to steal some ideas I have, and at very best, we're fast friends who run a damn good game of Dungeons and Dragons.If this interests you, leave a like or reply and I'll DM you
now I need a friend lol
4:14 I don't understand the diagram. Why is a combination of worldbilding with roleplay or worldbuilding with immersion better than immersion with roleplay?
Neither combinations are inherently better than the other, but immersion comes in many forms beyond things that might seem apparent. I for example, contribute a lot of the art, sketches, and character design for the campaign and the world as a way to make the existing world-building more immersive.
@@tai-cx5vj This kind of diagram visualizes how well certain traits synergize by the size of the filled in area.
@@schwarzerritter5724 are you dense or did someone open your skull and fuck it?
Not to knock it without ever having tried it, but it just feels like co-dm’ing would lead to awkwardness. Or one dm getting bored because they’re only handling mechanics and that’s literally the busy work. I don’t know.
666 th like
Co-DMing sucks when the other DM alters everything your doing and changes the campaign, :/
My best friend just started DMing a few months ago, and always floats the idea of coDming with me. I flatly refuse, because 1) I want to be a player again, and get to join that adventure 2) Personally I'm not a fan of this idea, but there are some great merits put forth in this video, and 3) I feel everyone whose played DND for a little while should take a crack at DMing. Maybe not a long campaign or anything like that, but get a chance to tell their own story, and I think coDming makes it "our story" not "my story". Points two and three very much run together and are VERY subjective, and point one is a me thing for sure.
My compromise to this however, I have helped them make many magical items, we bounce ideas off one another, if they ever have questions about anything I try to give my thoughts (I am ready to help with a rules question), but in turn I don't know what's going to happen in terms of plot or future events, and I respect that ultimately they are the DM and they have the last call in all things.
I think that last point is the the deal breaker for me. While it is normal to have disagreements, who makes that final call? Through good communication and being reasonable you can get there, but what's the breaking point? Maybe I'm just a jerk, but I feel like it takes a certain mind set to be a DM, and when you're in that position a level of ownership is important, and with a coDM it can fall into one person either taking over, or causing a general divide, or worse yet one person getting lazy.
Maybe not having a coDM is the solution, but having an inside player. That could have its own issues too, but I feel it offers less problems in the long run.
all decisions have tradeoffs. an inside player is just a different paradigm with its own strengths and solutions