Extending the Sunset Ltd is the project that needs to he done. The CSX/NS Railroads need to stop their campaign of blocking the restoration of Amtrak service between New Orleans and Miami. The public deserves better treatment and service. GET IT DONE NOW!!!!
Allegedly this could not be done due to the needed upgrades to the route and signaling (PTC) not being completed until just recently. Extending the run to Mobile was supposed to take place by the end of this year and test trains have already been run on that route (with a brand new Siemens locomotive involved in a fatal grade crossing collision earlier this year). The remainder of the route to Florida has already been mapped out but speeds are still limited to about 45 mph, stations need upgrades, and at least part of the original CSX portion has been sold off to a short line operator. I don't anticipate a return to Florida service anytime this decade, if ever.
Since the RAILROADS fall under GOVERNMENT CONTROL (more or less), Since the government passed this bill to improve the U.S INFRASTRUCTURE, They should go to these FREIGHT COMPANIES and say: YOU WANT INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY, THE PEOPLE WANT AMTRAK, SO LETS TALK TURKEY. IF YOU ALLOW AMTRAK: "YOU GET MONEY," BUT IF YOU DONT: "YOU DON'T GET A PENNY OF IT." That will stop freight companies from going against AMTRAK. Also pass a deal with PRIVATE INVESTORS who also have passenger rail service, SAME DEAL, NO MORE AND NO LESS. I've always said to BUSINESSES/ORGANIZATIONS: "GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT (SERVICES), AND THEY (PEOPLE) WILL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT (MONEY), BUT IF YOU DON'T (Again as above mentioned): "YOU DON'T GET A PENNY OF IT."
We subsidize airlines too much for Amtrak to ever change. $69 ticket to New Orleans and I’m there in 45 min or 8 hour train for $130? It just doesn’t work.
Based on where I live in Georgia, either Amtrak might commit to building stations in nearby cities, or after a few decades Brightline might, just might, expand north of the state line and offer service south. If I want to get to Atlanta, though, may as well wait for Amtrak to provide an alternative to I-185 that isn’t an expensive, 20-minute flight so I don’t have to deal with traffic north of Newnan.
that or Brightline could do it with their own private funds. I support what Brightline is doing, I think they're great and I think we need more companies doing that. 🙂 Of course, for long distance, nothing is ever going to be faster than flying, especially when we get supersonic over land back again (NASA is going to test a "low boom" aircraft soon, flying it at Mach speeds over major cities to see if people can hear it....they say the boom should be barely audible, and not cause any property damage. It's the X-59 program. It got delayed by the pandemic but the word is these flights should happen in 2024.)
@@DiamondKingStudios "f I want to get to Atlanta, though, may as well wait for Amtrak to provide an alternative to I-185 that isn’t an expensive, 20-minute flight so I don’t have to deal with traffic north of Newnan." There's a private sector solution coming (well Brightline is one but like you said it could take decades for them to see value in your particular route), eVTOL air taxis. They are electric vehicles that take off and land like a helicopter, and then the propellers rotate and they fly like an airplane. Joby Aviation's one goes 155 miles at 200 mph and carries four people, plus the pilot. They intend to start service in the Los Angeles area in 2025 (many other companies are working on it). 🙂 Is there like a general aviation airport nearby? If so, Joby could potentially pick you up there and fly you to Atlanta. 🙂
Brightline West could and should be a model for all P3 railway projects in America going forward. Why? Value engineering for HSR is much needed especially compared to the California HSR project. I want both to be complete but one will certainly happen in my expected lifetime... The other? NOPE!
The Cape Codder does still exist actually. The MBTA operates it as a seasonal train with weekend service from Boston to Hyannis via one of the commuter rail lines.
The Cape Codder from NYC has largely been replaced by private jets and expensive seasonal JetBlue flights to Hyannis Airport. As a former Hyannis resident, Amtrak is missing out on a good chunk of money from the New Yorkers that want to come to the Cape but: are priced out of flights to Hyannis; don’t want to battle the bridge traffic; don’t want to fly to Logan or Providence airports then battle the same traffic.
There are so many lost routes, hoping we can get most of them back someday. We surely need Jacksonville to New Orleans, that one hurts us badly here in FL. Thanks for a great video, this was very informative on some of Amtrak's history. Have a great week!
Two routes omitted. The Niagara Rainbow from New York to Detroit via Southern Ontario and Montrealer; sleeper train from Montreal to Washington on current Vermonter route. The biggest hole in the Amtrak system: they have never had a train from Cleveland to Cincinnati.
I love Amtrak. It's too bad that the powers that be don't seem to care. I routinely ride the train from Olympia to Bellingham in WA state and the trains have been packed every time. It's too bad that we seem to be satisfied with almost a third world version of train travel instead of being an industry leader that we could be. This is an absolutely beautiful country with so much to offer in terms of scenic rides and I wish that we would capitalize on that. Thanks for all the information.
Agree sucks that lately in the state im in weve seen many historical lines in the mountains be abandoned and scaled back when they would be a great way to see America by train
@@MirzaAhmed89ye thats the problem because most train service in America sucks no one rides it needs to be improved a lot in order for people to find it useful
It's because autos are far superior to trains that have limited stops, take 5-10x as long as other means of travel, and costs more than a plane ticket.
Many "pre-Amtrak" routes have also been lost. Amarillo, Texas used to have a Rock Island connection paralleling I-40 eastwards to Oklahoma City, but the segment between Amarillo and Oklahoma City has been abandoned & the rails (within Texas) ripped out. The former National Limited route between Pittsburgh via Indianapolis to St. Louis has experienced a similar fate. A connection between downtown Phoenix & Las Vegas, NV has never yet existed, but could potentially be created using the existing former AT&SF freight route between Phoenix & Parker, AZ. About 120 miles of new tracks between Parker & Boulder City, NV (utilizing the existing 12 mile BNSF segment between Topock, AZ & Needles, CA) would enable passenger service between Phoenix & Las Vegas. Has there ever been a passenger train between Chicago & Florida that included stops at BOTH: Indianapolis & Atlanta?
The Central of Georgia Railway, as a subsidiary of the Southern, was a participant in Amtrak, but the new network ultimately never used any of their lines. When the _City of Miami_ (a through train between Chicago and Miami operated in collaboration with the Illinois Central and ACL/later SCL) was discarded in favor of the _South Wind_ Columbus and Albany, GA were both cut from the new Amtrak network, but perhaps a more frustrating loss if you aren’t from that area like I am is the cancellation of the _Nancy Hanks II_ which would serve as an obvious like between the _Crescent_ in Atlanta and the _Silver_ trains in Savannah while also connecting Macon. Both lines are still operated by Norfolk Southern and could see a revival of service if stations were to be built and improvements made to the track. Much harder would be reviving the _Man O’ War_ (Columbus-Atlanta), discontinued mid-1970, since both the CG and Southern lines between the two cities are mostly abandoned without much possibility for restoration (read _bike trails_ ). There are plans for an Atlanta-Montgomery train to go through LaGrange and Opelika, which are close to Columbus, but unless some local transit agency miraculously institutes a connecting commuter service from Columbus to Opelika, we’ll all have to drive some distance to even get to a station. In terms of a greater Chicago-Miami train, I would prefer a route through Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville, Atlanta, and Macon for optimal population catchment (and a fairly direct line rather than through Alabama), but since this means that Columbus would still be bypassed, there is probably some merit in its incorporation in a _Lake Cities_ like service extending from Missouri through southern Illinois to Memphis, then to Birmingham, Columbus, Albany, Waycross, and joining with the _Silver_ trains in Folkston. This improves the network in Georgia and Alabama (and has the interesting side effect of making Opelika a minor junction), but I don’t know if many Missourians, Kansans, or Oklahomans view Florida as a popular vacation spot, so it might not catch on. Given that my home state is fairly highly-populated compared to its neighbors (save Florida), I find it odd that we don’t really have our own state-sponsored passenger rail program with Amtrak like NC does. An Atlanta-Savannah service could work for us like a Raleigh-Charlotte does for the North Carolinians.
Thinking of the song "Chattanooga Choo-Choo", I once tried to take an Amtrak there to visit a friend. I was dismayed to learn they don't go there! So much for that!
Amtrak's motto might as well be "We may be a lot slower than flying, but you'd never guess it from our ticket prices." In the 90s my family took Amtrak from Boston to Kansas City, and it was (slightly) cheaper than flying, but only because children rode for half price on Amtrak. The 21 day advance fare tickets on the airline were approximately the same as the Amtrak tickets. Much more recently my wife and I rode Amtrak from Oceanside CA to Kansas City and paid a lot more for Amtrak than we would have for plane tickets (though that's because we got a sleeper car). Amtrak is really an "it's about the journey, not the destination" way of travel, which explains why you can't go from arbitrary city A to arbitrary city B. You want to ride a train through the mountains? We got trains that go through the mountains. You want to ride a train across the prairie? We got trains across the prairie. You want a train through the desert? I got good news for you, buddy. You want to start in a specific place and go to another specific place? Oooooh. Sorry about that.
@@michlo3393 Amtrak California once posted a quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson: "Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." Sure, that's inspirational, but if you're on a train that starts doing that, you're going to have a bad time. However, the problem with Amtrak is not that tracks to major cities don't exist, it's that Amtrak doesn't use them, or at best requires you to detour many hundreds of miles out of your way. Kansas City and Omaha are both served by Amtrak and less than 200 miles apart on I-29, but getting between them on Amtrak requires a detour to Illinois making your total trip well over 600 miles. You CAN get from Atlanta in Georgia to Jacksonville in the neighboring state of Florida, but only by first going to North Carolina, a state bordering neither; you have to travel completely through South Carolina TWICE.
hmm well, if you just get a seat on Amtrak, as opposed to a room, it's a lot cheaper, usually close to the price of Greyhound for the same distance. But people don't fly because it's cheap, they fly because it's fast. And at the distances people fly, a train doesn't hold a candle to that speed. That's why the private companies gave up on passenger rail (for the most part; there are still some companies that do it) in favor of flight. Boston to Kansas City according to Google Maps is 1418 miles (2282 km). So if you averaged 200 mph (321 km/hr) it would still take you SEVEN HOURS. It would be longer, because wheel on rail generally does not actually average 200 mph (that's their max, not their average). Wikipedia says the TGV averages 173 mph over their whole system. A jet aircraft takes four hours. Maglev would actually be fast enough for this particular route.....but that would be extremely expensive to build. The Japanese maglev is planned to only go 177 miles. "Amtrak is really an "it's about the journey, not the destination" way of travel, which explains why you can't go from arbitrary city A to arbitrary city B. " Well I mean, that and the fact that you have to have track going from A to B. For example, there's no track from San Jose directly to Las Vegas.....Brightline's LA to LV route doesn't benefit us up here in the Bay Area. We would just fly to Vegas. 🙂 With flying, you just need airstrip at A, and airstrip at B. You don't have to do the extreme expense of building something all the way from A, continuously to B.
(having said that, some of these gaps that the channel owner points out would be opportunities for private companies (Brightline?) to run trains there, if they deem that the market would support it. 🙂)
The video left out one short lived route. In 1988, Amtrak created a Houston leg of the Texas Eagle at Dallas and ran down to Houston on mostly SP trackage (the former Sunbeam / Hustler route). This leg served the important College Station, TX market with students to and from Texas A&M. A thrice weekly service was not terribly convenient, though, and the service was discontinued in September, 1995, one month before my marriage, and a harbinger of ill things to come. A year after my marriage, Southern Pacific was no more.
Amtrak surveyed the extension of the sunset limited a couple years ago, looking at repairing the tracks and reopening it. They are looking at starting regional service on the front range- from Cheyenne to Pueblo. If they do, they should really run it to Raton or La Junta, to catch the Southwest Cheif. Then reopening the Heartland Flyer to Newton, Kansas, could allow moving between transcon routes without going clear to Chicago or California of taking a bus. They need to do something, whether that or extending the Heartland Flyer to Lincoln. I can drive from here to San Antonio in 15-16 hours. Current amtrak options include 5-6 hours of layover between Galesburg and Springfeild, and take about 45 hours. If I stick my head out the window, I can watch the California Zephyr pass through town.
The problem with restoring the Sunset Limited or restoring general service to the Florida Panhandle gap is with the freight companies. They either want more than a king's ransom to "upgrade" (read restore tracks they tore up or let maintence lapse) the tracks or outright shut Amtrak out and cite excesive strain and the "congested" tracsk. For added context It took mediation from the STB to restore service from New Orleans to Mobile. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's two step short of it with the animosity towards Amtrak and it's existing services.
I totallt agree it'd be a disservice to start Cheyenne to Pueblo service, without providing some sort of connection to the Southwest Chief. Regardless if the Southwest Chief connecting station is in La Junta or Trinidad, this REALLY should be done if such a north to south train is introduced. It also should be a no brainer to extend the Heartland Flyer north to Newton(KS), so that places like Wichita have train service again. Ideally it'd be nice to have thru car service(meaning a sleeper and coach are disconnected from. the Southwest Chief, and routed onto a different train bound for Fort Worth) so that you could go from Fort Worth to Chicago on train.
I live in Southern California, and I used to ride the Desert Wind to visit relatives in Salt Lake City. I also rode it to Denver a few times. Now the only way to take the train to either of those cities is to ride to Oakland or Sacramento, stay there overnight, and continue the next day on the California Zephyr. The Desert Wind is sorely missed by me.
I hope the Corridor ID program partnership with Utah, Idaho, and Las Vegas utilizing Frontrunner goes thru. Altho, I'm curious how they'll handle St. George as there is no rail at all connected to that decently large city.
Some friends in US opined that it's the federal government's lack of interest and the high level lobbying of private Airways companies. So, people prefer air travel for longer destinations and road travel by own cars for shorter and medium distance destinations.
It's some of both. The federal government created the problem in the first place, by providing subsidies for the airlines and highways and none for the railroads, so a lot of railroads had to close their existing passenger service because they couldn't keep up. Then when the government realized they had made a mess, they created Amtrak to "fix" it, but compounded the problem by making Amtrak have to run just about every decision past Congress, ESPECIALLY adding new long distance routes. Then add to that the fact that the other railroads, now only running freight, don't feel any need to let the passenger trains have priority ("after all, they aren't OUR trains anymore"), and it just makes the whole problem worse.
@@nishiljaiswal2216 Yes, except in the Northeast Corridor where Amtrak owns its own track. It is mostly politics. Amtrak was first designed to have a slow death as Americans adjusted to flying more. Alas, for the federal government, they have found that despite Amtrak's many weaknesses, most purposeful, Americans like trains. The younger generation can scream "old technology" at the top of their lungs and, guess what, it is. It could have been upgrated to a world standard but polticians have their own pet projects to fund and getting people from place to place is simply too boring for these political pseudo-intellectuals. Save the snail; let humans walk.
Seems like a route from Florida, through Savannah, Atlanta, Chattanooga and Nashville (or maybe Knoxville) to Chicago, would be a no-brainer. Aside from the lack of north-south routes in the West, a SE to NW connection in the South is the most glaring omission on the map.
Funnily enough, there used to be a service that covered much of this route. The Dixie Flyer covered the route from Chicago to Nashville via Evansville, than passed through Atlanta onto Florida via Macon and Waycross. But it was truncated and finally cut by the late 60s, and when Amtrak was being formed, they were really only allowed to consider routes that were still in service.
Would put Macon, GA back on the network, too; their only other chance would be an Atlanta-Savannah service. I think that a Chicago-Miami service along those cities, plus a branching service to Savannah, would help to connect many disparate lines and provide a higher ridership base for those points on the network.
@@DiamondKingStudios yes, I'd include Macon on such a route. Depending on the available routes one or the other could be served with a thruway bus connection.
The Detroit to Toledo segement of the Lake Cities was discontinued in 1995, with the end point being moved to Pontiac. The name was changed to Wolverine in 2004.
A piece of the old Sunset Limited is scheduled to make a comeback as a new service from New Orleans to Mobile next year. It’s supposed to be two round trips per day, which would make it more frequent than the Sunset Ltd. We’re also supposed to get a new twice daily train from NOLA to Baton Rouge in the next few years also.
That New Orleans/Mobile service was supposed to start January of this year, 2023 but obviously didn't happen. Not sure what is the holdup. They've been doing proving runs and have even had two accidents with one fatal as they work to get this train back online. I'm worried about these older low use crossings that will now see four 79 mph trains blowing through and predict they'll be unfortunately more fatals.
@@thud9797 The hold up is the lack of station facilities in Mobile. The existing structure is gone and Amtrak and Mobile can't agree on the new location. They say 2024 but I'm betting late 2024 at the earliest
You forgot the Houston section of the Texas Eagle. Cars split off at Dallas and took the more direct route to Houston via Corsicana and College Station. It ended in 1995.
You said that the Lake Shore Limited serves northern New York. Rochester is technically on the northern edge of the state, but we always say “western” never “northern”. Massena and Watertown are in northern New York. Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse are not.
I wish they hadn't discontinued the West Virginian my gf used to live in Parkersburg and it would have been a good way to travel there from northern Virginia. Northern West Virginia definitely needs passenger service in the future.
I have ridden AMTRAK mostly for fun to see The West by riding all the AMTRAK rail west of St. Louis making connections in Kansas City and Chicago. It was a great way to see The West and did so between 2001 and 2013 on 5 weekend to weekend trips so missed routes such as the Pioneer, North Coast Hiawaths, and the Desert Wind. I have also enjoyed visiting Europe riding their amazing high speed rail as they went a different direction with rail but their countries are more the size of U.S. states and population condensed by comparison. I really enjoyed the history shown by your video and reading the comments of rail travellers. St. Louis was fortunate Illinois took such an interest in rail travel that it has recently really improved service with new passenger dedicated rail between St. Louis and Chicago but it is the stops between the cities that also really matter. I enjoyed all my trips and talking to rail riders on AMTRAK and some were even from Europe wanting to see the West just like me. I also included The Canadian between Vancouver and Jasper on one of my trips. Very nostalgic for rail travellers as Canada uses 1950s rail cars for its route connecting to Toronto. I know it is easier said than done but having rail dedicated to just passenger service instead of sharing rail with many freight trains is key and a large reason why some of these routes were discontinued making it take forever to get to a destination.
I live near where the pioneer route was. It use to stop in Boise and my hometown Nampa and to this day they still have the Amtrak station building in Boise. However the one in Nampa is not there anymore which is sad. But they still have the historical depot in Nampa however that one is on the other side of the tracks from where the Amtrak train station was. The Pioneer route operated from 1977-1997. The only active train station in my state is in Sandpoint Idaho. They’re talking about bringing it back someday. And that’s awesome because I want to take a train from Nampa to Portland or Nampa to Salt Lake City or Nampa to Boise.
As someone with almost no historic connection to Idaho, I think it’s a bit messed up that the only Amtrak station in your state is at its northernmost county, way up in the panhandle, away from where the vast majority of the population lives, and there should at least be some service in the Snake River area (where I imagine you live). Kentucky and Tennessee also have it bad (one train along their western edge), but at least the _City of New Orleans_ reaches Memphis.
@@DiamondKingStudios I agree it is messed up how the only train station in Idaho is in the north and I hope they bring back Amtrak to southern Idaho sadly I saw Amtrak’s new route map and southern Idaho was not on the new route list.
Your national rail map is missing the tracks owned by BNSF and operated by Montana Rail Link between Spokane and Billings. This was the route of the North Coast Hiawatha, which also went through Montana's state capital of Helena. When it was pulled, the line was reported to be short only one rider per day per segment from being kept. The "High Line" route was saved instead because it served more remote sections of Montana. With bus service along the interstate having been eliminated, today Montana's population centers have poorer public transportation than the empty northern route. Unfortunately, many of Amtrak's problems are rooted in past political decisions instead of concern for the good of America. Sadly, that seems to have become all too common in today's world.
The National Limited Harrisburg split ended way before 1979. Remnants of 1972 Tropical Storm Agnes destroyed four bridges between York Pennsylvania and the Mason Dixon.. Trackage south of the border was removed but the right of way has been preserved as a rail trail. In Pennsylvania the trackabe is used for excursions lines.
Wonderful video. I learned a lot about why Amtrak is the way it is today. Thank You for doing the research and creating this video. I look forward to your train rides. 😊
When I was in India, I could take the train everywhere. Sure, it wasn't always the most comfortable experience, but it got me where I needed to go. By contrast, Amtrak in my home state back in the US is almost completely useless. My local station only has three trains a week. To make things worse, that train is almost always at least 3 hours late. As if all this wasn't bad enough, the city bus to the station doesn't run on Sunday when 1 of the three trains a week arrives. Amtrak is an embarrassment for the US.
The line from New Orleans to Jacksonville was wiped out by hurricanes wiping out the track between those cities and the freight lines not replacing them for Amtrak to run on. More to do with the state of the tracks than Amtrak itself. This is a great history of the rail service, although it does not always mention the details as why service is ended (sometimes it mentions ridership, or tracks eliminated but not always). The map at 19:57 where you see the dotted line - that is where the hurricanes took the track out, and the freight line refused to rebuild it. So Amtrak cannot offer the coast to coast service anymore because there is no track and they don't own the land or have the funds to rebuild that track.
Minor note here- The freight lines refused to rebuild it to Amtrak standards unless Amtrak paid a king's ransom. The cynical side of me says the ransom would either pay for impovements the freights didn't want ot payfor themselves or the freights would just pokcet the money with stock buy-backs.
Back in the early to mid 1960s a railroad called the Monon ran daily from Chicago to Louisville. I was in college in Bloomington, Indiana, and a couple of times a year boarded the Monon there and rode it south to Louisville, and loved it. I really miss trains.
Janesville is or was a large publishing location for magazines. Amtrak was trying to make money off of taking the magazines to distribution via Chicago.
While I don’t think it would be the most direct Chicago-Miami route, nor would it serve the highest population versus some of the alternatives, there certainly is a case for directly linking Montgomery and Birmingham, and many folks in southern GA would probably like not having to take I-75 to get to eastern Florida.
I agree, but back then the Floridian ran on primarily ex-L&N track or Family Lines and was losing 13 cents per passenger mile. It ended service Oct. 9, 1979. On Nov 1, 1980, Chessie Systems merged with Family lines and that is when the tracks improved.
The line from New Orleans to Jacksonville was wiped out by hurricanes wiping out the track between those cities and the freight lines not replacing them for Amtrak to run on. More to do with the state of the tracks than Amtrak itself. I think the Floridan used part of those tracks that were not replaced, right?
@@Buc_Stops_Here I’m pretty sure CSX rebuilt those lines as soon as they could and had them up and running by October, so there’s not really much excuse that Amtrak’s still “temporary suspended”.
Just found your channel and it’s great. I used to live in Rodeo California in the Bay Area. Back in the early 90’s I took Amtrak from Martinez California to Los Angeles then the next day took the Desert Wind to Salt Lake City Utah. Then took a bus to Ogden Utah to catch the Pioneer to Seattle Washington. Both those routes were very scenic. On the Pioneer which had a stop In LaGrande Oregon. After LaGrande it went through the Blue Mountains of Eastern Oregon before getting into Pendleton Oregon and after Pendleton it an from Boardman Oregon all the to Portland Oregon along the Columbia River. A quick sidebar is that in 2019 after I retired from USPS (post office) I moved to Island City Oregon which shares the same zip code as LaGrande Oregon. In fact the UP depot which Amtrak used on Jefferson Street is about 7 minutes from my house. It’s a very small world. Robert now retired in Island City Oregon.
I was surprised to find that there is no direct Amtrak route from Buffalo to Cincinnati when I looked for it a few years ago. I'm not sure if it's even possible but it would be a great addition.
It looks like the old “National Limited” went through my town of Steubenville. It makes sense since it was originally the “Pittsburgh, Steubenville, and St. Louis Railroad” before the PRR bought it.
I travel on Amtrak’s Pacific Surfliners between San Diego, Los Angeles & Oxnard,CA when I’m in the San Diego area 4 times a year. When I ride the Pacific Surfliners, I travel to Los Angeles and on the next Pacific Surfliner on my next visit to the San Diego area I ride the Pacific Surfliner to Oxnard. Train travel beats riding buses and driving. Flying domestically is a hassle, a drudgery and in coach on the airlines you’re packed in like sardines.
This is quite informative. According to schedules I read from the 70s, there were serious plans to extend Amtrak into Mexico, with negotiations and "track condition" being the hurdles, I imagine the Inter-American would have been extended had this happened? Also, had 9-11 not happened, not only would the International have possibly lasted longer, but also, VIA Rail was going to run trains into Detroit! The 1983 rerouting happened because Denver and Rio Grande ended its Zephyr service, it was one of the last non-Amtrak long distance trains in the USA (if you don't count VIA Rail's Atlantic, which did make stops in Northern Maine, albeit at inconvenient times, until 1994) Also, the combined Zephyr, Pioneer, and Desert Wind was nicknamed the "Wishbone" by some people.
Thank you for posting such an informative and thorough video. I can't imagine how much research and time it took. I really enjoyed it. Hoping the best for Amtrak as flying really isn't very enjoyable as necessary as it is. In Europe, we liked traveling by overnight train and waking up in the center of town of the next country.
AMTRAK is a heavily subsidized passenger train system that has only one reason for existing. Keeping enough rolling stock available to move large numbers of men.
I'd love to travel by train. I live in Houston, America's 4th largest city, and we have 3 trains a week from New Orleans to Los Angeles on the Sunset Limited. The timing is also so poor, that if I wanted to travel from Houston to San Antonio or the reverse, as well as Houston to New Orleans, it becomes a major undertaking and involves significant patience and planning due to awkward timetables for departing and arriving times. And lastly, Amtrak ridiculously not ADA compliant. Wheelchair users often encounter stations with no wheelchair access or trains with no way to ride comfortably. In Europe, I can roll to the cafe car ad on Brightline in Florida I also could roll from care to car. On Amtrak, I couldn't even leave the car I was in. Getting on or off can be a challenge also. I once rode the Heartland Flyer last year. At one stop, the portable ramp they set up wss so steep that I was unable to control or stop my wheelchair going down and tipped over, and I was unable to go up the ramp and had to get help.
Who would want to??? I live in Houston and I’m sorry but I’d rather spend 5.5 hours in my car spending half as much on gas than a train ticket that would get me there in 9 hours. No thanks
The Lake Shore follows the route of the 20th Century Limited from NYC era. The Broadway Limited follows the route of the Pennsylvania Railroad. The two were fierce competitors on time to Chicago from New York and the Lake Shore had an edge because pf better route. (it's called the water level route because it can reach it withough traversing mountain passes which the Broadway had to go through. Today, the Lake Shore is slower because of traffic at Chicago and if often very delayed.
I think you hit on the demise of rail. It needs ridership. The only place Amtrak makes money is NEC and the Autotrain. Those both supply funds to other services. As long as I can get on an airplane, even with security and get to LA from NYC in 6 hours trains will continue to be only a curiosity outside of the two. Also your analysis of the Broadway Limited a PRR train verses the NYCentral 20th Century Limited "waterlevel route is that despite the seemingly shorter distance on the BL it had to climb the mountains of central PA. In the heyday of the two railroads the NYC to Chicago trains took exactly the same time. Plus if you were lucky you could watch them race (literaly) through some parallel track in Indiana.
You think this loss of service is bad, check out passenger service as it exited in January of 1971, just prior to Amtrak's takeover. 😮 Not only did the train I rode in the summer of 1970 (the City of San Francisco) disappear, much of its trackage was removed decades ago.
North Coast Hi 3 days of service and revenue, and ridership. 7 days of demand. When I rode it all the cars were HOT . No air conditioning! Still glad I did.
This was fun, I wish Amtrak had more trains to offer, here in Rochester you can get a ride to Chicago 3 times a week, NYC twice daily, and Buffalo twice daily. A trip from here to Chicago might be fun but it stops in Rochester around 11PM and takes 23 hours that's not very convenient
Just here in the Midwest, we need service between Twin Cities and Kansas City and hopefully someday have service restored out to Dubuque, IA (preferably extended to Waterloo) on the CN Iowa Division mainline.
The Rock Island once ran a train that went all the way from the Twin Cities through Kansas City to Texas. Nowadays there’s not too many north-south routes.
@@DiamondKingStudios That they (the Rock) did - the Twin Star Rocket and I think you could make a pretty solid case in establishing service from Twin Cities to KCITY and down to Forth Worth/Dallas and Houston.
It would also help if we could attract rental car agencies to put in at least a kiosk at Amtrak stations. Then deliver a car to passengers for a day trip or longer to explore the area. The Denver station is centrally located and connects to the DIA airport, but why have to take a commuter train out to the airport to pick up a rental car? At least Enterprise used to have a rental counter in the Fort Worth, TX station, but I think that it's closed.
The rental car companies, in the past, didn't want Amtrak service. One reason Florida Amtrak service was so weak was because the rental car co's lobbied the state legislature to fund only highways and airports. The rental car co's didn't want people to ride the trains!
The Empire Corridor in New York (NYC-Albany-??) has Enterprise car rental locations at (or near) several stations. They had a counter at Albany-Renneslaer and a map of other stations with nearby ones.
I took the Lake Country Limited twice, from Janesville, Wisconsin, to Chicago for the day. It was slow (maybe 30mph, until it got to Fox Lake, Illinois, and Metra tracks, then up to 70mph) but fun. In the last days of it, it was scaled back to Saturday-only service. It had fewer than 10 passengers the times I rode it.
About the time the Lake Country was established, GM closed a major truck plant in JV, dealing a severe blow to Janesville's economy and growth, and pretty much dooming the LCL's chances... (and yeah, creeping along the JV-Fox Lake segment didn't help, either)
For an effective and efficient passenger rail service, America needs a rail system map similar to the interstate highway map, where trains would serve cities much like the interstates, which reach nearly every city of significance. The U.S. government, through taxes (even taxing RR passengers !!) sunk huge amounts of money in building highway and air systems. It should do the same with passenger rail, constructing new rail where necessary (Ohio on the National Ltd. route) and running more than one train a day on most routes.
It's worth mentioning, Minnesota's legislature funded the Northern Lights Express plan, a 90mph service with 4 daily round trips between Minneapolis and Duluth, that could be breaking ground on construction in a couple of years. We could finally see passenger rail between the Twin Ports and Twin Cities not seen since 1985.
Most of the former Midwestern & Mid Atlantic-Northeast routes should come back , the train wheels finally seem to moving this time around. The Cape Codder might even be restored on its originally route from NY to Falmouth , others that pre-date Amtrak like the Phoebe snow , flying yankee , Erie limited , blue comet are either under study or being talked about on a state level.
@@jslasher1I have hope for the _Phoebe Snow_ given the recent work on the Lackawanna Cutoff. With enough support from Northeast Pennsylvania it could be viable. It will look nothing like the old DL&W train but the service will be there. _Blue Comet_ might be a harder ask, since folks will argue that the existence of the Northeast Corridor and NJ Transit’s Atlantic City Like make it less of an immediate need. I still would like to see passenger train service for south-central NY and northeastern PA, which alternative New York-Buffalo alignments might offer.
As a Central Ohio resident, forever waiting for the 3C connector to exist. It’s super frustrating given Ohio has an extensive network of freight lines. Maybe it gets done in another 10 years, but I certainly have my doubts. Passenger rail service is a tremendous thing and something that the US lacks in greatly. We have the auto and airline industry to thank for that.
Thanks for the really well put together video. Your knowledge of train history is staggeringly impressive! Loved the use of historical brochures, as well! Will you be doing any videos of some of the historical train stations, such as the Fred Harvey ones? The one in Winslow, AZ (La Posada) has been reopened for some time now, and it's a great place to visit, even as a destination, when you ride the Southwest Chief.
Thank you. I would like to explore some of the old stations and Harvey Houses someday... it's always in the back of my mind when I think of travel planning
It's not completely lost, but I read there used to be a couple NEC corridor trains that ran the Inland Route via Springfield, MA between New Haven and Boston. Now there's just once a day on the LSL, though there are talks of adding more service
I've taken the Southwest Chief from Kansas City to Chicago (and back again) a few times and it's always been enjoyable, a relaxing and comfortable traveling experience. I get a lot of reading done when I'm on the train. 😁
Amtrak and the southern rail commission applied for money to study splitting the crescent line at meridian ms and run a train from there to the DFW area. The next step will be upgrading the meridian speedway.
@@T1DWanderer With a lot of luck mid to late next year. The biggest hold up is in Mobile. Amtrak and Mobile can't agree on a location since the original was torn down in 2007.
AmTrak is expressing interest in buying into the Texas Bullet Train project after the original company backed out during 2020. If that route proves successful, it could mean AmTrack could finally get funding to build their own train routes and operate bullet trains. What is holding back AmTrack the most is freight. While freight trains are supposed to yield to passenger trains, but they don't. The freight companies also apply minimal maintenance to the rails, ensuring they spend enough money to allow their trains to run, but not enough to mke passenger trains quick and comfortable. And the final nail in the coffin, freight companies love to just dismantle routes that no longer serve them purpose. My guess is some of these routes that had changed or discontinued happened due to the route suddenly being scrapped for quick cash.
Don't forget their love affair with precision scheduled railroading that purposfully builds trains that are too long for existing sidings. Anything to help the stockholders buy that 8th vacation home.
The mostly 10 mph National Limited. The train had to be discontinued so the track could be torn up across Ohio! I rode it often end to end which no one does. No air conditioning and no lights either. Loss of this train and Broadway is just outrageous. The last days after the decision to pull it off was made. New Amfleet cars were on the train. Ridership skyrocketed , but too late it came off.
With enough proper maintenance, the _National Limited_ could have survived in some form to the present day, along with the since-abandoned trackage. It’s a bit of a no-brainer to me; the federal government considers that particular corridor important enough that they built I-70. But if they bring it back, it would be nice for that DC-York-Harrisburg branch to also come back. It’s like how Detroit-Toledo was mentioned as a small but potentially important segment.
Great video! You just got a new subscriber! You did leave out the Three Rivers that replaced the Broadway Limited in 1995. Which eventually ran the full route through Akron again from 1997 - 2005.
My personnel wish is that Amtrak would route a train from Cincinnati, OH to Charleston, SC (preferred) or Savanna, GA without first having to go East or North & then down to the South East.
A few years ago Amtrak announced that the line through Mobile, Alabama through northern Florida would be restored. There were speeches and celebrations but it never happened. I wonder what happened.
The reason all lines between Chicago and the west coast are east to west is because there aren't much people in the those area meaning north south routes in those area, may not get much demand.
The Spirit of California ran from around 1979-1983. It ran from LA to Sacramento and was an overnight train including a 10/6 Heritage Fleet sleeping car, Amfleet Coaches, AmDinette and Heritage Fleet Baggage car.
What about adding some kind of Atlanta to Chicago via Chattanooga, Nashville, Louisville and Indianapolis service? This could run daily and give daily service between Chicago and Indianapolis but as well as covering some large passenger rail gaps in Kentucky and Tennessee, running through Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee and Georgia.
There is talk of establishing passenger rail service between Chicago and Dubuque Iowa going through Savanna Illinois. But i haven’t heard much about it recently.
Amtrak used to split in Jacksonville and run I think the Silver Star more west parallel to 301 near Gainesville and through Ocala... I think this route has been replaced by buses and trains all now go down the tracks near the St Johns River through Orlando. It has 3 trains each way through there including Auto Train that does not stop.. I drive down 301 all the time and see plenty of freight trains.
Michigan Department of Transportation has actually been trying to revive the Detroit area to Toledo train route, for years now. Yes today its only a thruway bus, but it'd be nice to see train service back one day. Technically you can still take trains east to Toronto, but youd have to find your own way to cross the border between Detroit and Windsor, and catch a VIA train from there. Other option would be to go east to Port Huron, cross the border to Sarnia on your own, then catch VIA from there. Brightline is trying to start train service from Rancho Cucamonga(CA) to Las Vegas, but the timeframe when train seevice will start again on this route, who knows? Some in Texas are trying to start a high speed Texas to Houston route, called Texas Central. I don't think this group is related to Brightline, interestingly enough.
To be entirely reliable and successful, Amtrak needs to have its own tracks rather than using tracks owned by freight systems. Although federal law requires Amtrak to get precedence on freight tracks, that rarely happens. Other than on the East Coast, mainly on the NE Corridor, Amtrak's system simply isn't working well. Adding additional routes without building exclusive tracks isn't the answer.
The freight companies let their trains take precedence over Amtrak because the freight companies aren't being forced to give precedence as is in the law. Maybe the solution would be to improve all the rails in the country by forming a private corporation financed initially by the government to purchase and operate all the rails. If one company owned all the rail infrastructure and leased it for use to all the railroads including Amtrak, they could upgrade and maintain the tracks and potentially make a profit by modernizing our rails. This company could also act as a traffic controller on the rails to ensure that important trains get precedent. After all, the government controls air traffic and the airports are not owned by the airlines, but the airlines pay a usage fee. I don't see any reason a similar system could be used by USA railroads. With capital improvements in the rail system, areas where trains are limited to 30 mph or even 15mph could be eliminated. In many places, there would be no reason to lay new tracks, there is just a need to upgrade the tracks for faster more fuel-efficient train. This would benefit both Amtrak and the freight rail companies.
Seen from the UK, it is especially ironic that Atlanta seems to have just TWO Amtrak trains per day, yet Atlanta is claimed to have the world's busiest passenger airport. How can this be?
It's due to a criminal lack of funding. Delta, American, et. al., didn't pay a dime to built Hartsfield airport, nor any other passenger airport. GM and Big Oil didn't pay for the highway system. Tax dollars constructed the air and highway systems. But policymakers decided to give crumbs to passenger rail.
Amtrak did use run to St Petersburg in Florida as part of the Silver Meteor until 1984 when they decided to simplify the operations in Tampa-St. Pete area to Tampa Union Station in the Downtown Tampa area.
@irascheer5868 Yes, but it takes 21 hours to do it. A night train service (like the Nightjets in Europe) would need to leave in the late afternoon/ evening and arrive early the next morning, to appeal to business travelers. Say 6 pm to 6 am. The 900 mile Broadway Limited route, non stop, might be able to do that.
@johnhblaubachea5156 True, but both arrive the end of the following day. A night train would need to arrive the morning of the next day. The point is to replace a flight and a hotel with a train trip. Leave after work, arrive and do business the next day. It would have to be a higher speed non stop service.
@@odess4sd4d So, you want schedules such that one could leave New York whereby you would spend the night on the train and arrive in Chicago in the morning, attend your meeting/sight see and then return on EB train to that afternoon so that you could arrive in there the next morning? That would only work if CSX and NS would maintain the tracks and dispatch their trains the way the Pennsy and the NYC used to. I believe PTC has been this impossible. The existing schedules have lots of padding built into them to take into account anticipated freight interference and congestion (much of it due to PTC's longer trains). If the Lakeshore Limited operated without any interference and the host freights dispatched favorably your idea would work without upgrading to HSR. I lean towards incremental upgrades over building expensive new infrastructure. Not only is it cheaper, it get improvements into service sooner, the public takes notice and and over time ridership and frequencies increase. Better cooperation from the Class 1s has to start with reexamining the costs of the slots Amtrak pays them. Have these payments ever changed from 1971? In CA the Capitol Corridor pays UP a premium to dispatch above 95% OTP and maintain the tracks to 79 passenger/60 Freight. It's expensive, but it is the text book example for freight cooperation, and the 3rd busiest Amtrak Corridor. For the Lakeshoare's route would the government be willing to pay for extending sidings and double tracking to make the route more reliable (and be able to add second frequencies later?).
They need to bring back the Sunset East of New Orleans. It is all good bringing back the Desert Wind and Pioneer. Station times at major intermediate stations: (SAC on the northbound Starlight), Cincinnati (as you mentioned, both directions on the Cardinal), Individual (eastbound on train 50(, SLC. on the Zephyr in both directions), San Antonio on the westbound Sunset, Flagstaff in both directions on the Chief, Spokane on rte Builder in both directions, Palm Springs on the Sunset Limited, Toledo on the Lakeshore & Capitol Limited, Buffalo on the Lake Shore (this train deserves better than a midnight departure in Buffalo. I would have 49 and 449 trade places with 283vto give Upstairs NY west of Albany better westbound schedule and move the Capitol Limited to 7:05pm out of Washington to fill in train 49's currently scheduled service. Reroute 48 and 448 to run CHI-DET as a 4th train on that route then to Toledo where it would continue its existing route. 49 would arrive in Detroit such that it would replace 351 DET-CHI. 351 and 353 WOULD run later. This train should be returned via the South Shore tracks between Chicago and Michigan City, adding stops at Hegewisch. IL & Gary, IN. The Capitol A limited would add the additional stops at Bryan, OH
Who would ride it? Most people would have to rent a car at their destination so they wouldn't take the train. Trains are finishid because of the car and the fact that most areas in the US you need a car to get around. There is no point in taking a train for 6 hours when you could drive it in about the same time and have a car at your destination.
@canyonoverlook9937 you're telling me no one would ride that? Calling B.S. 😂😂😂 there's tons of posts with people taking about how Columbus isn't served by amtrak. Lot of people would love it.
@@benjaminwagner8141Do they want to go to Cincy or Cleveland or some other city. Maybe if they were going to Florida or NYC but just from Columbus to Cleveland I am skeptical it would be viable to cover its costs. I wonder how many lines now even cover their cost. NYC to DC probably makes a profit.
I never knew that the Sunset Limited ran all the way to Miami. But we really need the New Orleans to Jacksonville segment back. Florida felt "amtrak-empty" when we lost that train
The Amtrak train I miss the most is The San Diegan. I used to take that train when I went to visit my sister, and when I worked at my employer's San Diego branch. But I understand the Coast Starlight can be caught in L.A, and goes down to San Diego. And the last I read, the Desert Wind might be back as early as 2025.
You're thinking of the Pacific Surfliner which goes to SD, while the Coast Starlight terminates in Los Angeles. You can also transfer from the Starlight to the Surfliner in San Luis Obispo (central CA), where the Surfliner originates. Another local option to get there (if one tires of being on the Amtrak or is starting from LA) is to take the regional Metrolink train from LA to Oceanside CA and transfer to the regional COASTER train which goes between Oceanside and San Diego downtown/old town.
Extending the Sunset Ltd is the project that needs to he done. The CSX/NS Railroads need to stop their campaign of blocking the restoration of Amtrak service between New Orleans and Miami.
The public deserves better treatment and service. GET IT DONE NOW!!!!
Allegedly this could not be done due to the needed upgrades to the route and signaling (PTC) not being completed until just recently. Extending the run to Mobile was supposed to take place by the end of this year and test trains have already been run on that route (with a brand new Siemens locomotive involved in a fatal grade crossing collision earlier this year). The remainder of the route to Florida has already been mapped out but speeds are still limited to about 45 mph, stations need upgrades, and at least part of the original CSX portion has been sold off to a short line operator. I don't anticipate a return to Florida service anytime this decade, if ever.
Since the RAILROADS fall under
GOVERNMENT CONTROL
(more or less),
Since the government passed this bill to improve the
U.S INFRASTRUCTURE,
They should go to these
FREIGHT COMPANIES and say:
YOU WANT INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY,
THE PEOPLE WANT AMTRAK,
SO LETS TALK TURKEY.
IF YOU ALLOW AMTRAK:
"YOU GET MONEY,"
BUT IF YOU DONT:
"YOU DON'T GET A PENNY OF IT."
That will stop freight companies from going against AMTRAK.
Also pass a deal with
PRIVATE INVESTORS who also have passenger rail service,
SAME DEAL,
NO MORE AND NO LESS.
I've always said to
BUSINESSES/ORGANIZATIONS:
"GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT (SERVICES),
AND THEY (PEOPLE) WILL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT (MONEY),
BUT IF YOU DON'T
(Again as above mentioned):
"YOU DON'T GET A PENNY OF IT."
The best option is greyhound or Antrak does a bus route to the service they discontinued via rail like they did with Las Vegas
We subsidize airlines too much for Amtrak to ever change. $69 ticket to New Orleans and I’m there in 45 min or 8 hour train for $130? It just doesn’t work.
CARBON TAX! That would change the economics in a freakin' hurry!
@@stickynorth Oh yeah…. Look what it did for Canada lmfao.
If speed is your need, keep on flying. I love train travel and wouldn’t fly if you paid for my ticket.
Hopefully Brightline is successful enough to push Amtrak to connect more city pairs that are "too far to drive, too close to fly".
Based on where I live in Georgia, either Amtrak might commit to building stations in nearby cities, or after a few decades Brightline might, just might, expand north of the state line and offer service south.
If I want to get to Atlanta, though, may as well wait for Amtrak to provide an alternative to I-185 that isn’t an expensive, 20-minute flight so I don’t have to deal with traffic north of Newnan.
Amtrak could care less about Brightline given their inept management.
that or Brightline could do it with their own private funds. I support what Brightline is doing, I think they're great and I think we need more companies doing that. 🙂 Of course, for long distance, nothing is ever going to be faster than flying, especially when we get supersonic over land back again (NASA is going to test a "low boom" aircraft soon, flying it at Mach speeds over major cities to see if people can hear it....they say the boom should be barely audible, and not cause any property damage. It's the X-59 program. It got delayed by the pandemic but the word is these flights should happen in 2024.)
@@DiamondKingStudios
"f I want to get to Atlanta, though, may as well wait for Amtrak to provide an alternative to I-185 that isn’t an expensive, 20-minute flight so I don’t have to deal with traffic north of Newnan."
There's a private sector solution coming (well Brightline is one but like you said it could take decades for them to see value in your particular route), eVTOL air taxis. They are electric vehicles that take off and land like a helicopter, and then the propellers rotate and they fly like an airplane. Joby Aviation's one goes 155 miles at 200 mph and carries four people, plus the pilot. They intend to start service in the Los Angeles area in 2025 (many other companies are working on it). 🙂
Is there like a general aviation airport nearby? If so, Joby could potentially pick you up there and fly you to Atlanta. 🙂
Brightline West could and should be a model for all P3 railway projects in America going forward. Why? Value engineering for HSR is much needed especially compared to the California HSR project. I want both to be complete but one will certainly happen in my expected lifetime... The other? NOPE!
The Cape Codder does still exist actually. The MBTA operates it as a seasonal train with weekend service from Boston to Hyannis via one of the commuter rail lines.
Yup, the Cape Flyer.
The Cape Codder from NYC has largely been replaced by private jets and expensive seasonal JetBlue flights to Hyannis Airport. As a former Hyannis resident, Amtrak is missing out on a good chunk of money from the New Yorkers that want to come to the Cape but: are priced out of flights to Hyannis; don’t want to battle the bridge traffic; don’t want to fly to Logan or Providence airports then battle the same traffic.
Once the north south tunnel is built (if it ever is) it should become an extension of the Downeaster
Cape codder is from nyc, cape flyer from Boston
That is, of course MBTA isn't MBTA'ing. I kid, but only mostly. What a mess it is up there right now.
There are so many lost routes, hoping we can get most of them back someday. We surely need Jacksonville to New Orleans, that one hurts us badly here in FL. Thanks for a great video, this was very informative on some of Amtrak's history. Have a great week!
Thanks, I think that Sunset Ltd section is indeed coming back
@@T1DWanderer yeah New Orleans to Mobile in the works now
It's a start
@@T1DWanderer FG&A was just given a big wad of cash by the FRA to upgrade Their North Florida trackage(hopefully for passenger service).
Need to Jacksonville to New Orleans back. Only option now is Greyhound and man have they fallen far. Yikes!
Now that Bright Line West has GOT FUNDING...we need to get the PIONEER DESERT WIND back. From Portland to Las Vegas
Two routes omitted. The Niagara Rainbow from New York to Detroit via Southern Ontario and Montrealer; sleeper train from Montreal to Washington on current Vermonter route. The biggest hole in the Amtrak system: they have never had a train from Cleveland to Cincinnati.
You're right about the Niagara Rainbow, thanks for the info!
I love Amtrak. It's too bad that the powers that be don't seem to care. I routinely ride the train from Olympia to Bellingham in WA state and the trains have been packed every time. It's too bad that we seem to be satisfied with almost a third world version of train travel instead of being an industry leader that we could be. This is an absolutely beautiful country with so much to offer in terms of scenic rides and I wish that we would capitalize on that. Thanks for all the information.
Agreed, thanks for the comments. Long distance trains in the US could be so great
Why should they care? Hardly anyone rides the existing trains. Why would you run empty trains at a great loss?
Agree sucks that lately in the state im in weve seen many historical lines in the mountains be abandoned and scaled back when they would be a great way to see America by train
@@MirzaAhmed89ye thats the problem because most train service in America sucks no one rides it needs to be improved a lot in order for people to find it useful
It's because autos are far superior to trains that have limited stops, take 5-10x as long as other means of travel, and costs more than a plane ticket.
Many "pre-Amtrak" routes have also been lost. Amarillo, Texas used to have a Rock Island connection paralleling I-40 eastwards to Oklahoma City, but the segment between Amarillo and Oklahoma City has been abandoned & the rails (within Texas) ripped out. The former National Limited route between Pittsburgh via Indianapolis to St. Louis has experienced a similar fate. A connection between downtown Phoenix & Las Vegas, NV has never yet existed, but could potentially be created using the existing former AT&SF freight route between Phoenix & Parker, AZ. About 120 miles of new tracks between Parker & Boulder City, NV (utilizing the existing 12 mile BNSF segment between Topock, AZ & Needles, CA) would enable passenger service between Phoenix & Las Vegas. Has there ever been a passenger train between Chicago & Florida that included stops at BOTH: Indianapolis & Atlanta?
Farmrail owns the Oklahoma segment between Erick and Hydro, and they use it alot.
The Central of Georgia Railway, as a subsidiary of the Southern, was a participant in Amtrak, but the new network ultimately never used any of their lines.
When the _City of Miami_ (a through train between Chicago and Miami operated in collaboration with the Illinois Central and ACL/later SCL) was discarded in favor of the _South Wind_ Columbus and Albany, GA were both cut from the new Amtrak network, but perhaps a more frustrating loss if you aren’t from that area like I am is the cancellation of the _Nancy Hanks II_ which would serve as an obvious like between the _Crescent_ in Atlanta and the _Silver_ trains in Savannah while also connecting Macon. Both lines are still operated by Norfolk Southern and could see a revival of service if stations were to be built and improvements made to the track.
Much harder would be reviving the _Man O’ War_ (Columbus-Atlanta), discontinued mid-1970, since both the CG and Southern lines between the two cities are mostly abandoned without much possibility for restoration (read _bike trails_ ). There are plans for an Atlanta-Montgomery train to go through LaGrange and Opelika, which are close to Columbus, but unless some local transit agency miraculously institutes a connecting commuter service from Columbus to Opelika, we’ll all have to drive some distance to even get to a station.
In terms of a greater Chicago-Miami train, I would prefer a route through Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville, Atlanta, and Macon for optimal population catchment (and a fairly direct line rather than through Alabama), but since this means that Columbus would still be bypassed, there is probably some merit in its incorporation in a _Lake Cities_ like service extending from Missouri through southern Illinois to Memphis, then to Birmingham, Columbus, Albany, Waycross, and joining with the _Silver_ trains in Folkston. This improves the network in Georgia and Alabama (and has the interesting side effect of making Opelika a minor junction), but I don’t know if many Missourians, Kansans, or Oklahomans view Florida as a popular vacation spot, so it might not catch on.
Given that my home state is fairly highly-populated compared to its neighbors (save Florida), I find it odd that we don’t really have our own state-sponsored passenger rail program with Amtrak like NC does. An Atlanta-Savannah service could work for us like a Raleigh-Charlotte does for the North Carolinians.
rails ripped out?!idiocy
@@roadforrunner this happened all over the country.
Track mileage in the US actually peaked around 1918.
Thinking of the song "Chattanooga Choo-Choo", I once tried to take an Amtrak there to visit a friend. I was dismayed to learn they don't go there! So much for that!
Track 29!
You can stay at the Chatanooga Hotel there though and see train history and sleep in sleeping car.
@@juliejensen7370 Yeah, I know but it's not the same experience. I wanted to be able to actually arrive and leave Chattanooga by train.
Amtrak's motto might as well be "We may be a lot slower than flying, but you'd never guess it from our ticket prices." In the 90s my family took Amtrak from Boston to Kansas City, and it was (slightly) cheaper than flying, but only because children rode for half price on Amtrak. The 21 day advance fare tickets on the airline were approximately the same as the Amtrak tickets. Much more recently my wife and I rode Amtrak from Oceanside CA to Kansas City and paid a lot more for Amtrak than we would have for plane tickets (though that's because we got a sleeper car). Amtrak is really an "it's about the journey, not the destination" way of travel, which explains why you can't go from arbitrary city A to arbitrary city B. You want to ride a train through the mountains? We got trains that go through the mountains. You want to ride a train across the prairie? We got trains across the prairie. You want a train through the desert? I got good news for you, buddy. You want to start in a specific place and go to another specific place? Oooooh. Sorry about that.
Lol well, it goes where the tracks are.
@@michlo3393 Amtrak California once posted a quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson: "Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." Sure, that's inspirational, but if you're on a train that starts doing that, you're going to have a bad time. However, the problem with Amtrak is not that tracks to major cities don't exist, it's that Amtrak doesn't use them, or at best requires you to detour many hundreds of miles out of your way. Kansas City and Omaha are both served by Amtrak and less than 200 miles apart on I-29, but getting between them on Amtrak requires a detour to Illinois making your total trip well over 600 miles. You CAN get from Atlanta in Georgia to Jacksonville in the neighboring state of Florida, but only by first going to North Carolina, a state bordering neither; you have to travel completely through South Carolina TWICE.
@@michlo3393 You can build new tracks. Lots of homeless need jobs. Who pays? Small detail often overlooked.
hmm well, if you just get a seat on Amtrak, as opposed to a room, it's a lot cheaper, usually close to the price of Greyhound for the same distance.
But people don't fly because it's cheap, they fly because it's fast. And at the distances people fly, a train doesn't hold a candle to that speed. That's why the private companies gave up on passenger rail (for the most part; there are still some companies that do it) in favor of flight.
Boston to Kansas City according to Google Maps is 1418 miles (2282 km).
So if you averaged 200 mph (321 km/hr) it would still take you SEVEN HOURS.
It would be longer, because wheel on rail generally does not actually average 200 mph (that's their max, not their average). Wikipedia says the TGV averages 173 mph over their whole system.
A jet aircraft takes four hours.
Maglev would actually be fast enough for this particular route.....but that would be extremely expensive to build. The Japanese maglev is planned to only go 177 miles.
"Amtrak is really an "it's about the journey, not the destination" way of travel, which explains why you can't go from arbitrary city A to arbitrary city B. "
Well I mean, that and the fact that you have to have track going from A to B.
For example, there's no track from San Jose directly to Las Vegas.....Brightline's LA to LV route doesn't benefit us up here in the Bay Area. We would just fly to Vegas. 🙂
With flying, you just need airstrip at A, and airstrip at B. You don't have to do the extreme expense of building something all the way from A, continuously to B.
(having said that, some of these gaps that the channel owner points out would be opportunities for private companies (Brightline?) to run trains there, if they deem that the market would support it. 🙂)
The video left out one short lived route. In 1988, Amtrak created a Houston leg of the Texas Eagle at Dallas and ran down to Houston on mostly SP trackage (the former Sunbeam / Hustler route). This leg served the important College Station, TX market with students to and from Texas A&M. A thrice weekly service was not terribly convenient, though, and the service was discontinued in September, 1995, one month before my marriage, and a harbinger of ill things to come. A year after my marriage, Southern Pacific was no more.
Thanks, yes I forgot that spur line in this video 😊
Right now Minnesota is trying to reconnect the TC's to Superior and Duluth.
Amtrak surveyed the extension of the sunset limited a couple years ago, looking at repairing the tracks and reopening it.
They are looking at starting regional service on the front range- from Cheyenne to Pueblo. If they do, they should really run it to Raton or La Junta, to catch the Southwest Cheif.
Then reopening the Heartland Flyer to Newton, Kansas, could allow moving between transcon routes without going clear to Chicago or California of taking a bus.
They need to do something, whether that or extending the Heartland Flyer to Lincoln.
I can drive from here to San Antonio in 15-16 hours. Current amtrak options include 5-6 hours of layover between Galesburg and Springfeild, and take about 45 hours.
If I stick my head out the window, I can watch the California Zephyr pass through town.
The problem with restoring the Sunset Limited or restoring general service to the Florida Panhandle gap is with the freight companies. They either want more than a king's ransom to "upgrade" (read restore tracks they tore up or let maintence lapse) the tracks or outright shut Amtrak out and cite excesive strain and the "congested" tracsk. For added context It took mediation from the STB to restore service from New Orleans to Mobile. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's two step short of it with the animosity towards Amtrak and it's existing services.
I totallt agree it'd be a disservice to start Cheyenne to Pueblo service, without providing some sort of connection to the Southwest Chief. Regardless if the Southwest Chief connecting station is in La Junta or Trinidad, this REALLY should be done if such a north to south train is introduced.
It also should be a no brainer to extend the Heartland Flyer north to Newton(KS), so that places like Wichita have train service again. Ideally it'd be nice to have thru car service(meaning a sleeper and coach are disconnected from. the Southwest Chief, and routed onto a different train bound for Fort Worth) so that you could go from Fort Worth to Chicago on train.
I live in Southern California, and I used to ride the Desert Wind to visit relatives in Salt Lake City. I also rode it to Denver a few times. Now the only way to take the train to either of those cities is to ride to Oakland or Sacramento, stay there overnight, and continue the next day on the California Zephyr. The Desert Wind is sorely missed by me.
I hope the Corridor ID program partnership with Utah, Idaho, and Las Vegas utilizing Frontrunner goes thru. Altho, I'm curious how they'll handle St. George as there is no rail at all connected to that decently large city.
@@gljames24There are mountains by St George. Maybe they could have a 21:03 track from Caliente, Nv
Some friends in US opined that it's the federal government's lack of interest and the high level lobbying of private Airways companies. So, people prefer air travel for longer destinations and road travel by own cars for shorter and medium distance destinations.
I think it’s more so from freight as Amtrak runs on privately held freight track
It's some of both. The federal government created the problem in the first place, by providing subsidies for the airlines and highways and none for the railroads, so a lot of railroads had to close their existing passenger service because they couldn't keep up. Then when the government realized they had made a mess, they created Amtrak to "fix" it, but compounded the problem by making Amtrak have to run just about every decision past Congress, ESPECIALLY adding new long distance routes.
Then add to that the fact that the other railroads, now only running freight, don't feel any need to let the passenger trains have priority ("after all, they aren't OUR trains anymore"), and it just makes the whole problem worse.
@@nishiljaiswal2216 Yes, except in the Northeast Corridor where Amtrak owns its own track. It is mostly politics. Amtrak was first designed to have a slow death as Americans adjusted to flying more. Alas, for the federal government, they have found that despite Amtrak's many weaknesses, most purposeful, Americans like trains. The younger generation can scream "old technology" at the top of their lungs and, guess what, it is. It could have been upgrated to a world standard but polticians have their own pet projects to fund and getting people from place to place is simply too boring for these political pseudo-intellectuals. Save the snail; let humans walk.
@@katherinec2759 Great response, thanks for sharing.
@@WilliamMurphy-uv9pm❤❤
Seems like a route from Florida, through Savannah, Atlanta, Chattanooga and Nashville (or maybe Knoxville) to Chicago, would be a no-brainer. Aside from the lack of north-south routes in the West, a SE to NW connection in the South is the most glaring omission on the map.
It is kind of shocking
Funnily enough, there used to be a service that covered much of this route. The Dixie Flyer covered the route from Chicago to Nashville via Evansville, than passed through Atlanta onto Florida via Macon and Waycross. But it was truncated and finally cut by the late 60s, and when Amtrak was being formed, they were really only allowed to consider routes that were still in service.
@@MatthewCron yep. Sic transit gloria...transit.
Would put Macon, GA back on the network, too; their only other chance would be an Atlanta-Savannah service.
I think that a Chicago-Miami service along those cities, plus a branching service to Savannah, would help to connect many disparate lines and provide a higher ridership base for those points on the network.
@@DiamondKingStudios yes, I'd include Macon on such a route. Depending on the available routes one or the other could be served with a thruway bus connection.
The Detroit to Toledo segement of the Lake Cities was discontinued in 1995, with the end point being moved to Pontiac. The name was changed to Wolverine in 2004.
A piece of the old Sunset Limited is scheduled to make a comeback as a new service from New Orleans to Mobile next year. It’s supposed to be two round trips per day, which would make it more frequent than the Sunset Ltd. We’re also supposed to get a new twice daily train from NOLA to Baton Rouge in the next few years also.
That New Orleans/Mobile service was supposed to start January of this year, 2023 but obviously didn't happen. Not sure what is the holdup. They've been doing proving runs and have even had two accidents with one fatal as they work to get this train back online. I'm worried about these older low use crossings that will now see four 79 mph trains blowing through and predict they'll be unfortunately more fatals.
@@thud9797 The hold up is the lack of station facilities in Mobile. The existing structure is gone and Amtrak and Mobile can't agree on the new location. They say 2024 but I'm betting late 2024 at the earliest
I rode the Sunset Limited once from San Antonio to Kissimmee, Florida. I miss that route.
You forgot the Houston section of the Texas Eagle. Cars split off at Dallas and took the more direct route to Houston via Corsicana and College Station. It ended in 1995.
That's right, I did miss that one. Thanks
The former SP route of the "Sunbeam" through Corsicana and College Station is owned by UP, who are not keen on hosting a passenger train.
@@jslasher1nor is BNSF for connecting Bakersfield with southern CA, but the Tehachapi Loop is filled with freight trains there anyway.
That line is owned by UP. BNSF has trackage rights.
@@johnhblaubachea5156 I thought the ATSF used that for their _San Francisco Chief_ way back when.
That agreement must have been in place for a while.
You said that the Lake Shore Limited serves northern New York. Rochester is technically on the northern edge of the state, but we always say “western” never “northern”. Massena and Watertown are in northern New York. Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse are not.
Good info, thanks
I wish they hadn't discontinued the West Virginian my gf used to live in Parkersburg and it would have been a good way to travel there from northern Virginia. Northern West Virginia definitely needs passenger service in the future.
A great history of Amtrak.😊
I have ridden AMTRAK mostly for fun to see The West by riding all the AMTRAK rail west of St. Louis making connections in Kansas City and Chicago. It was a great way to see The West and did so between 2001 and 2013 on 5 weekend to weekend trips so missed routes such as the Pioneer, North Coast Hiawaths, and the Desert Wind. I have also enjoyed visiting Europe riding their amazing high speed rail as they went a different direction with rail but their countries are more the size of U.S. states and population condensed by comparison. I really enjoyed the history shown by your video and reading the comments of rail travellers. St. Louis was fortunate Illinois took such an interest in rail travel that it has recently really improved service with new passenger dedicated rail between St. Louis and Chicago but it is the stops between the cities that also really matter. I enjoyed all my trips and talking to rail riders on AMTRAK and some were even from Europe wanting to see the West just like me. I also included The Canadian between Vancouver and Jasper on one of my trips. Very nostalgic for rail travellers as Canada uses 1950s rail cars for its route connecting to Toronto. I know it is easier said than done but having rail dedicated to just passenger service instead of sharing rail with many freight trains is key and a large reason why some of these routes were discontinued making it take forever to get to a destination.
I live near where the pioneer route was. It use to stop in Boise and my hometown Nampa and to this day they still have the Amtrak station building in Boise. However the one in Nampa is not there anymore which is sad. But they still have the historical depot in Nampa however that one is on the other side of the tracks from where the Amtrak train station was. The Pioneer route operated from 1977-1997. The only active train station in my state is in Sandpoint Idaho. They’re talking about bringing it back someday. And that’s awesome because I want to take a train from Nampa to Portland or Nampa to Salt Lake City or Nampa to Boise.
As someone with almost no historic connection to Idaho, I think it’s a bit messed up that the only Amtrak station in your state is at its northernmost county, way up in the panhandle, away from where the vast majority of the population lives, and there should at least be some service in the Snake River area (where I imagine you live).
Kentucky and Tennessee also have it bad (one train along their western edge), but at least the _City of New Orleans_ reaches Memphis.
@@DiamondKingStudios I agree it is messed up how the only train station in Idaho is in the north and I hope they bring back Amtrak to southern Idaho sadly I saw Amtrak’s new route map and southern Idaho was not on the new route list.
South Dakota has it even worse lol@@DiamondKingStudios
@@skurinski I doubt there were many passenger trains there even before Amtrak.
Your national rail map is missing the tracks owned by BNSF and operated by Montana Rail Link between Spokane and Billings. This was the route of the North Coast Hiawatha, which also went through Montana's state capital of Helena. When it was pulled, the line was reported to be short only one rider per day per segment from being kept. The "High Line" route was saved instead because it served more remote sections of Montana. With bus service along the interstate having been eliminated, today Montana's population centers have poorer public transportation than the empty northern route. Unfortunately, many of Amtrak's problems are rooted in past political decisions instead of concern for the good of America. Sadly, that seems to have become all too common in today's world.
The National Limited Harrisburg split ended way before 1979. Remnants of 1972 Tropical Storm Agnes destroyed four bridges between York Pennsylvania and the Mason Dixon.. Trackage south of the border was removed but the right of way has been preserved as a rail trail. In Pennsylvania the trackabe is used for excursions lines.
Wonderful video. I learned a lot about why Amtrak is the way it is today. Thank You for doing the research and creating this video. I look forward to your train rides. 😊
Thanks!! I'm excited about the Amtrak rides too :)
When I was in India, I could take the train everywhere. Sure, it wasn't always the most comfortable experience, but it got me where I needed to go. By contrast, Amtrak in my home state back in the US is almost completely useless. My local station only has three trains a week. To make things worse, that train is almost always at least 3 hours late. As if all this wasn't bad enough, the city bus to the station doesn't run on Sunday when 1 of the three trains a week arrives. Amtrak is an embarrassment for the US.
Another awesome video and really educated me on AMTRAK history
Thanks for filling the the gaps... so to speak. I found this fascinating.
The line from New Orleans to Jacksonville was wiped out by hurricanes wiping out the track between those cities and the freight lines not replacing them for Amtrak to run on. More to do with the state of the tracks than Amtrak itself. This is a great history of the rail service, although it does not always mention the details as why service is ended (sometimes it mentions ridership, or tracks eliminated but not always). The map at 19:57 where you see the dotted line - that is where the hurricanes took the track out, and the freight line refused to rebuild it. So Amtrak cannot offer the coast to coast service anymore because there is no track and they don't own the land or have the funds to rebuild that track.
Minor note here- The freight lines refused to rebuild it to Amtrak standards unless Amtrak paid a king's ransom. The cynical side of me says the ransom would either pay for impovements the freights didn't want ot payfor themselves or the freights would just pokcet the money with stock buy-backs.
@@americanace96 That makes perfect sense and thanks for providing!
Back in the early to mid 1960s a railroad called the Monon ran daily from Chicago to Louisville. I was in college in Bloomington, Indiana, and a couple of times a year boarded the Monon there and rode it south to Louisville, and loved it. I really miss trains.
Janesville is or was a large publishing location for magazines. Amtrak was trying to make money off of taking the magazines to distribution via Chicago.
Amtrak needs to bring back the former Floridian. No direct Chicago to Florida route is a glaring mistake!
I had ridden the Floridian several times. I agree it needs to be brought back, perhaps several times a week.
While I don’t think it would be the most direct Chicago-Miami route, nor would it serve the highest population versus some of the alternatives, there certainly is a case for directly linking Montgomery and Birmingham, and many folks in southern GA would probably like not having to take I-75 to get to eastern Florida.
I agree, but back then the Floridian ran on primarily ex-L&N track or Family Lines and was losing 13 cents per passenger mile. It ended service Oct. 9, 1979. On Nov 1, 1980, Chessie Systems merged with Family lines and that is when the tracks improved.
The line from New Orleans to Jacksonville was wiped out by hurricanes wiping out the track between those cities and the freight lines not replacing them for Amtrak to run on. More to do with the state of the tracks than Amtrak itself. I think the Floridan used part of those tracks that were not replaced, right?
@@Buc_Stops_Here I’m pretty sure CSX rebuilt those lines as soon as they could and had them up and running by October, so there’s not really much excuse that Amtrak’s still “temporary suspended”.
Just found your channel and it’s great. I used to live in Rodeo California in the Bay Area. Back in the early 90’s I took Amtrak from Martinez California to Los Angeles then the next day took the Desert Wind to Salt Lake City Utah. Then took a bus to Ogden Utah to catch the Pioneer to Seattle Washington. Both those routes were very scenic. On the Pioneer which had a stop In LaGrande Oregon. After LaGrande it went through the Blue Mountains of Eastern Oregon before getting into Pendleton Oregon and after Pendleton it an from Boardman Oregon all the to Portland Oregon along the Columbia River. A quick sidebar is that in 2019 after I retired from USPS (post office) I moved to Island City Oregon which shares the same zip code as LaGrande Oregon. In fact the UP depot which Amtrak used on Jefferson Street is about 7 minutes from my house. It’s a very small world.
Robert now retired in Island City Oregon.
Great memories, thanks
The New Orleans to Mobile section of the Sunset Limited is set to restart but will be a day train under a new name.
The Gulf Coast Limited was created specifically for the 1984 New Orleans World's Fair.
I was surprised to find that there is no direct Amtrak route from Buffalo to Cincinnati when I looked for it a few years ago. I'm not sure if it's even possible but it would be a great addition.
It looks like the old “National Limited” went through my town of Steubenville. It makes sense since it was originally the “Pittsburgh, Steubenville, and St. Louis Railroad” before the PRR bought it.
I travel on Amtrak’s Pacific Surfliners between San Diego, Los Angeles & Oxnard,CA when I’m in the San Diego area 4 times a year. When I ride the Pacific Surfliners, I travel to Los Angeles and on the next Pacific Surfliner on my next visit to the San Diego area I ride the Pacific Surfliner to Oxnard. Train travel beats riding buses and driving. Flying domestically is a hassle, a drudgery and in coach on the airlines you’re packed in like sardines.
I'd much rather spend 24 hours on a train than 3 hours on a plane
This is quite informative.
According to schedules I read from the 70s, there were serious plans to extend Amtrak into Mexico, with negotiations and "track condition" being the hurdles, I imagine the Inter-American would have been extended had this happened?
Also, had 9-11 not happened, not only would the International have possibly lasted longer, but also, VIA Rail was going to run trains into Detroit!
The 1983 rerouting happened because Denver and Rio Grande ended its Zephyr service, it was one of the last non-Amtrak long distance trains in the USA (if you don't count VIA Rail's Atlantic, which did make stops in Northern Maine, albeit at inconvenient times, until 1994)
Also, the combined Zephyr, Pioneer, and Desert Wind was nicknamed the "Wishbone" by some people.
Great video! Thank you
Thank you for posting such an informative and thorough video. I can't imagine how much research and time it took. I really enjoyed it. Hoping the best for Amtrak as flying really isn't very enjoyable as necessary as it is. In Europe, we liked traveling by overnight train and waking up in the center of town of the next country.
Lots of research but it was interesting to do. Thanks!
Rode River Cities it was down to ONE PACKED COACH. I was lucky to get a seat!
The heartland flyer has Amtrak bus service between okc and newton ks with the state’s trying to get that switched to rail service
...Great post!
AMTRAK is a heavily subsidized passenger train system that has only one reason for existing. Keeping enough rolling stock available to move large numbers of men.
I'd love to travel by train. I live in Houston, America's 4th largest city, and we have 3 trains a week from New Orleans to Los Angeles on the Sunset Limited. The timing is also so poor, that if I wanted to travel from Houston to San Antonio or the reverse, as well as Houston to New Orleans, it becomes a major undertaking and involves significant patience and planning due to awkward timetables for departing and arriving times. And lastly, Amtrak ridiculously not ADA compliant. Wheelchair users often encounter stations with no wheelchair access or trains with no way to ride comfortably. In Europe, I can roll to the cafe car ad on Brightline in Florida I also could roll from care to car. On Amtrak, I couldn't even leave the car I was in. Getting on or off can be a challenge also. I once rode the Heartland Flyer last year. At one stop, the portable ramp they set up wss so steep that I was unable to control or stop my wheelchair going down and tipped over, and I was unable to go up the ramp and had to get help.
Me too. Pity America doesn't have trains, Only AMTRAK 🤮🤮🤮
That's very bad service
Who would want to??? I live in Houston and I’m sorry but I’d rather spend 5.5 hours in my car spending half as much on gas than a train ticket that would get me there in 9 hours. No thanks
The Lake Shore follows the route of the 20th Century Limited from NYC era. The Broadway Limited follows the route of the Pennsylvania Railroad. The two were fierce competitors on time to Chicago from New York and the Lake Shore had an edge because pf better route. (it's called the water level route because it can reach it withough traversing mountain passes which the Broadway had to go through. Today, the Lake Shore is slower because of traffic at Chicago and if often very delayed.
I think you hit on the demise of rail. It needs ridership. The only place Amtrak makes money is NEC and the Autotrain. Those both supply funds to other services. As long as I can get on an airplane, even with security and get to LA from NYC in 6 hours trains will continue to be only a curiosity outside of the two. Also your analysis of the Broadway Limited a PRR train verses the NYCentral 20th Century Limited "waterlevel route is that despite the seemingly shorter distance on the BL it had to climb the mountains of central PA. In the heyday of the two railroads the NYC to Chicago trains took exactly the same time. Plus if you were lucky you could watch them race (literaly) through some parallel track in Indiana.
Cape coder would be more useful as a frequent service from New Haven or a shuttle to providence or Worcester those from NYC can transfer.
Loved your use of maps and how you drew the lines. Beautiful work!
Thanks! It's all about the maps ;)
Hicksville, Ohio was apparently a stop on Broadway Limited. Now we have to drive all the way to Bryan to get on a train to New York City.
The Desertt. Wind thru Las Vegas is a glaring omission in Amtrak,s network..
You think this loss of service is bad, check out passenger service as it exited in January of 1971, just prior to Amtrak's takeover. 😮
Not only did the train I rode in the summer of 1970 (the City of San Francisco) disappear, much of its trackage was removed decades ago.
Used to have a route through my city, It is no longer there but would love to see again
North Coast Hi 3 days of service and revenue, and ridership. 7 days of demand. When I rode it all the cars were HOT . No air conditioning! Still glad I did.
Sounds fun
This was fun, I wish Amtrak had more trains to offer, here in Rochester you can get a ride to Chicago 3 times a week, NYC twice daily, and Buffalo twice daily. A trip from here to Chicago might be fun but it stops in Rochester around 11PM and takes 23 hours that's not very convenient
Just here in the Midwest, we need service between Twin Cities and Kansas City and hopefully someday have service restored out to Dubuque, IA (preferably extended to Waterloo) on the CN Iowa Division mainline.
The Rock Island once ran a train that went all the way from the Twin Cities through Kansas City to Texas.
Nowadays there’s not too many north-south routes.
@@DiamondKingStudios That they (the Rock) did - the Twin Star Rocket and I think you could make a pretty solid case in establishing service from Twin Cities to KCITY and down to Forth Worth/Dallas and Houston.
It would also help if we could attract rental car agencies to put in at least a kiosk at Amtrak stations. Then deliver a car to passengers for a day trip or longer to explore the area. The Denver station is centrally located and connects to the DIA airport, but why have to take a commuter train out to the airport to pick up a rental car? At least Enterprise used to have a rental counter in the Fort Worth, TX station, but I think that it's closed.
Great idea. I know LA Union Station has a car rental counter in it, but that should be standard
The rental car companies, in the past, didn't want Amtrak service. One reason Florida Amtrak service was so weak was because the rental car co's lobbied the state legislature to fund only highways and airports. The rental car co's didn't want people to ride the trains!
Most staffed stations have rent a car counters. E.g.. Sacramento, Flagstaff, San Jose, San Diego.
@@dougo1962 Rental cars have traditionally cost less in Florida than elsewhere, and the rental car industry is largely built around the airlines.
The Empire Corridor in New York (NYC-Albany-??) has Enterprise car rental locations at (or near) several stations. They had a counter at Albany-Renneslaer and a map of other stations with nearby ones.
I took the Lake Country Limited twice, from Janesville, Wisconsin, to Chicago for the day. It was slow (maybe 30mph, until it got to Fox Lake, Illinois, and Metra tracks, then up to 70mph) but fun. In the last days of it, it was scaled back to Saturday-only service. It had fewer than 10 passengers the times I rode it.
About the time the Lake Country was established, GM closed a major truck plant in JV, dealing a severe blow to Janesville's economy and growth, and pretty much dooming the LCL's chances... (and yeah, creeping along the JV-Fox Lake segment didn't help, either)
For an effective and efficient passenger rail service, America needs a rail system map similar to the interstate highway map, where trains would serve cities much like the interstates, which reach nearly every city of significance. The U.S. government, through taxes (even taxing RR passengers !!) sunk huge amounts of money in building highway and air systems. It should do the same with passenger rail, constructing new rail where necessary (Ohio on the National Ltd. route) and running more than one train a day on most routes.
Madison, WI is now only reachable😕 via bus from Chicago.
So is Rockford Illinois.
It's worth mentioning, Minnesota's legislature funded the Northern Lights Express plan, a 90mph service with 4 daily round trips between Minneapolis and Duluth, that could be breaking ground on construction in a couple of years. We could finally see passenger rail between the Twin Ports and Twin Cities not seen since 1985.
Most of the former Midwestern & Mid Atlantic-Northeast routes should come back , the train wheels finally seem to moving this time around. The Cape Codder might even be restored on its originally route from NY to Falmouth , others that pre-date Amtrak like the Phoebe snow , flying yankee , Erie limited , blue comet are either under study or being talked about on a state level.
Sadly, these proposed routes are nothing more than pipe-dreams.
@@jslasher1I have hope for the _Phoebe Snow_ given the recent work on the Lackawanna Cutoff. With enough support from Northeast Pennsylvania it could be viable. It will look nothing like the old DL&W train but the service will be there.
_Blue Comet_ might be a harder ask, since folks will argue that the existence of the Northeast Corridor and NJ Transit’s Atlantic City Like make it less of an immediate need.
I still would like to see passenger train service for south-central NY and northeastern PA, which alternative New York-Buffalo alignments might offer.
I road the Amtrak from Parkersburg to Washington DC then to Baltimore with my Grandparents in 81
As a Central Ohio resident, forever waiting for the 3C connector to exist. It’s super frustrating given Ohio has an extensive network of freight lines. Maybe it gets done in another 10 years, but I certainly have my doubts. Passenger rail service is a tremendous thing and something that the US lacks in greatly. We have the auto and airline industry to thank for that.
At least between cincinnati and Columbus, there used to be a line but has been turned into the little Miami bike trail
@@timex513 that’s what happened to a lot of local rail lines here too. Several of the trails here used to be rail lines I believe.
We can also thank corrupt politicians of both major political parties who are bought by the auto and airline industries.
Thanks for the really well put together video. Your knowledge of train history is staggeringly impressive! Loved the use of historical brochures, as well! Will you be doing any videos of some of the historical train stations, such as the Fred Harvey ones? The one in Winslow, AZ (La Posada) has been reopened for some time now, and it's a great place to visit, even as a destination, when you ride the Southwest Chief.
Thank you. I would like to explore some of the old stations and Harvey Houses someday... it's always in the back of my mind when I think of travel planning
I'd love to have a rail reconnecting Norfolk and Roanoke.
It's not completely lost, but I read there used to be a couple NEC corridor trains that ran the Inland Route via Springfield, MA between New Haven and Boston. Now there's just once a day on the LSL, though there are talks of adding more service
I do wish there was still a Chicago to Florida route. I can;t see any argument against it.
It's insane that it is gone
@@T1DWanderer We can thank Jimmy Carter for that.
I've taken the Southwest Chief from Kansas City to Chicago (and back again) a few times and it's always been enjoyable, a relaxing and comfortable traveling experience. I get a lot of reading done when I'm on the train. 😁
A lot of gentle farmland in that area, good for relaxing
@@T1DWanderer - Yes indeed! 😎
Amtrak and the southern rail commission applied for money to study splitting the crescent line at meridian ms and run a train from there to the DFW area. The next step will be upgrading the meridian speedway.
9:10 I thought that Amtrak is working on bringing back service between New Orleans and Mobile.
I believe they are planning on opening that section again in the next year or two (?)
@@T1DWanderer With a lot of luck mid to late next year. The biggest hold up is in Mobile. Amtrak and Mobile can't agree on a location since the original was torn down in 2007.
AmTrak is expressing interest in buying into the Texas Bullet Train project after the original company backed out during 2020. If that route proves successful, it could mean AmTrack could finally get funding to build their own train routes and operate bullet trains.
What is holding back AmTrack the most is freight. While freight trains are supposed to yield to passenger trains, but they don't. The freight companies also apply minimal maintenance to the rails, ensuring they spend enough money to allow their trains to run, but not enough to mke passenger trains quick and comfortable. And the final nail in the coffin, freight companies love to just dismantle routes that no longer serve them purpose. My guess is some of these routes that had changed or discontinued happened due to the route suddenly being scrapped for quick cash.
Don't forget their love affair with precision scheduled railroading that purposfully builds trains that are too long for existing sidings. Anything to help the stockholders buy that 8th vacation home.
The mostly 10 mph National Limited. The train had to be discontinued so the track could be torn up across Ohio! I rode it often end to end which no one does. No air conditioning and no lights either. Loss of this train and Broadway is just outrageous. The last days after the decision to pull it off was made. New Amfleet cars were on the train. Ridership skyrocketed , but too late it came off.
That track was in very bad shape in 1969
So what? Fix it! @@dknowles60
With enough proper maintenance, the _National Limited_ could have survived in some form to the present day, along with the since-abandoned trackage.
It’s a bit of a no-brainer to me; the federal government considers that particular corridor important enough that they built I-70.
But if they bring it back, it would be nice for that DC-York-Harrisburg branch to also come back. It’s like how Detroit-Toledo was mentioned as a small but potentially important segment.
Great video! You just got a new subscriber! You did leave out the Three Rivers that replaced the Broadway Limited in 1995. Which eventually ran the full route through Akron again from 1997 - 2005.
My personnel wish is that Amtrak would route a train from Cincinnati, OH to Charleston, SC (preferred) or Savanna, GA without first having to go East or North & then down to the South East.
As a guy from Georgia, I concur
A few years ago Amtrak announced that the line through Mobile, Alabama through northern Florida would be restored. There were speeches and celebrations but it never happened. I wonder what happened.
It's being held up by the City of Mobile for some lease issues.
The reason all lines between Chicago and the west coast are east to west is because there aren't much people in the those area meaning north south routes in those area, may not get much demand.
I rode the Empire Builder from Seattle to Chicago in Feb. 2020. It was a fun experience.
The Spirit of California ran from around 1979-1983. It ran from LA to Sacramento and was an overnight train including a 10/6 Heritage Fleet sleeping car, Amfleet Coaches, AmDinette and Heritage Fleet Baggage car.
What about adding some kind of Atlanta to Chicago via Chattanooga, Nashville, Louisville and Indianapolis service? This could run daily and give daily service between Chicago and Indianapolis but as well as covering some large passenger rail gaps in Kentucky and Tennessee, running through Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee and Georgia.
Definitely a good idea
There is talk of establishing passenger rail service between Chicago and Dubuque Iowa going through Savanna Illinois. But i haven’t heard much about it recently.
Amtrak used to split in Jacksonville and run I think the Silver Star more west parallel to 301 near Gainesville and through Ocala... I think this route has been replaced by buses and trains all now go down the tracks near the St Johns River through Orlando. It has 3 trains each way through there including Auto Train that does not stop.. I drive down 301 all the time and see plenty of freight trains.
Reminds me of Taggert Transcontinental.
Michigan Department of Transportation has actually been trying to revive the Detroit area to Toledo train route, for years now. Yes today its only a thruway bus, but it'd be nice to see train service back one day.
Technically you can still take trains east to Toronto, but youd have to find your own way to cross the border between Detroit and Windsor, and catch a VIA train from there. Other option would be to go east to Port Huron, cross the border to Sarnia on your own, then catch VIA from there.
Brightline is trying to start train service from Rancho Cucamonga(CA) to Las Vegas, but the timeframe when train seevice will start again on this route, who knows?
Some in Texas are trying to start a high speed Texas to Houston route, called Texas Central. I don't think this group is related to Brightline, interestingly enough.
To be entirely reliable and successful, Amtrak needs to have its own tracks rather than using tracks owned by freight systems. Although federal law requires Amtrak to get precedence on freight tracks, that rarely happens. Other than on the East Coast, mainly on the NE Corridor, Amtrak's system simply isn't working well. Adding additional routes without building exclusive tracks isn't the answer.
All true. That's a capital investment proposal, and you know how polarized our government is.
@@hirampriggott1689without Capital investment Amtrak is useless and new services will just fail
@@hirampriggott1689And by now, it is most likely too late, as there is pretty much no land left for Amtrak to lay its own rails.
The freight companies let their trains take precedence over Amtrak because the freight companies aren't being forced to give precedence as is in the law. Maybe the solution would be to improve all the rails in the country by forming a private corporation financed initially by the government to purchase and operate all the rails. If one company owned all the rail infrastructure and leased it for use to all the railroads including Amtrak, they could upgrade and maintain the tracks and potentially make a profit by modernizing our rails. This company could also act as a traffic controller on the rails to ensure that important trains get precedent. After all, the government controls air traffic and the airports are not owned by the airlines, but the airlines pay a usage fee. I don't see any reason a similar system could be used by USA railroads. With capital improvements in the rail system, areas where trains are limited to 30 mph or even 15mph could be eliminated. In many places, there would be no reason to lay new tracks, there is just a need to upgrade the tracks for faster more fuel-efficient train. This would benefit both Amtrak and the freight rail companies.
@@greggruchacz8693 I do not see how the freight railways in the US would want to let their power slip away from them that quickly or easily.
Seen from the UK, it is especially ironic that Atlanta seems to have just TWO Amtrak trains per day, yet Atlanta is claimed to have the world's busiest passenger airport.
How can this be?
It's due to a criminal lack of funding. Delta, American, et. al., didn't pay a dime to built Hartsfield airport, nor any other passenger airport. GM and Big Oil didn't pay for the highway system. Tax dollars constructed the air and highway systems. But policymakers decided to give crumbs to passenger rail.
Amtrak did use run to St Petersburg in Florida as part of the Silver Meteor until 1984 when they decided to simplify the operations in Tampa-St. Pete area to Tampa Union Station in the Downtown Tampa area.
A strong case could be made for night train service direct between New York and Chicago.
Lake Shore Limited runs NYC-Chicago
@irascheer5868 Yes, but it takes 21 hours to do it. A night train service (like the Nightjets in Europe) would need to leave in the late afternoon/ evening and arrive early the next morning, to appeal to business travelers. Say 6 pm to 6 am. The 900 mile Broadway Limited route, non stop, might be able to do that.
Tthe Lakeshore Limited and the Cardinal both leave late in the day and arrive in. NYC the next day.
@johnhblaubachea5156 True, but both arrive the end of the following day. A night train would need to arrive the morning of the next day. The point is to replace a flight and a hotel with a train trip. Leave after work, arrive and do business the next day. It would have to be a higher speed non stop service.
@@odess4sd4d So, you want schedules such that one could leave New York whereby you would spend the night on the train and arrive in Chicago in the morning, attend your meeting/sight see and then return on EB train to that afternoon so that you could arrive in there the next morning? That would only work if CSX and NS would maintain the tracks and dispatch their trains the way the Pennsy and the NYC used to. I believe PTC has been this impossible. The existing schedules have lots of padding built into them to take into account anticipated freight interference and congestion (much of it due to PTC's longer trains). If the Lakeshore Limited operated without any interference and the host freights dispatched favorably your idea would work without upgrading to HSR.
I lean towards incremental upgrades over building expensive new infrastructure. Not only is it cheaper, it get improvements into service sooner, the public takes notice and and over time ridership and frequencies increase. Better cooperation from the Class 1s has to start with reexamining the costs of the slots Amtrak pays them. Have these payments ever changed from 1971? In CA the Capitol Corridor pays UP a premium to dispatch above 95% OTP and maintain the tracks to 79 passenger/60 Freight. It's expensive, but it is the text book example for freight cooperation, and the 3rd busiest Amtrak Corridor. For the Lakeshoare's route would the government be willing to pay for extending sidings and double tracking to make the route more reliable (and be able to add second frequencies later?).
Try going from Tampa to Atlanta on Amtrak. Just try it. You'll see the problem.
They need to bring back the Sunset East of New Orleans. It is all good bringing back the Desert Wind and Pioneer.
Station times at major intermediate stations: (SAC on the northbound Starlight), Cincinnati (as you mentioned, both directions on the Cardinal), Individual (eastbound on train 50(, SLC. on the Zephyr in both directions), San Antonio on the westbound Sunset, Flagstaff in both directions on the Chief, Spokane on rte Builder in both directions, Palm Springs on the Sunset Limited, Toledo on the Lakeshore & Capitol Limited, Buffalo on the Lake Shore (this train deserves better than a midnight departure in Buffalo. I would have 49 and 449 trade places with 283vto give Upstairs NY west of Albany better westbound schedule and move the Capitol Limited to 7:05pm out of Washington to fill in train 49's currently scheduled service. Reroute 48 and 448 to run CHI-DET as a 4th train on that route then to Toledo where it would continue its existing route.
49 would arrive in Detroit such that it would replace 351 DET-CHI. 351 and 353 WOULD run later. This train should be returned via the South Shore tracks between Chicago and Michigan City, adding stops at Hegewisch. IL & Gary, IN.
The Capitol A limited would add the additional stops at Bryan, OH
It's amazing that Columbus OH doesn't have one. Putting a line from cleveland to Cincinnati seems so simple
Who would ride it? Most people would have to rent a car at their destination so they wouldn't take the train. Trains are finishid because of the car and the fact that most areas in the US you need a car to get around. There is no point in taking a train for 6 hours when you could drive it in about the same time and have a car at your destination.
@canyonoverlook9937 you're telling me no one would ride that? Calling B.S. 😂😂😂 there's tons of posts with people taking about how Columbus isn't served by amtrak. Lot of people would love it.
@@benjaminwagner8141Do they want to go to Cincy or Cleveland or some other city. Maybe if they were going to Florida or NYC but just from Columbus to Cleveland I am skeptical it would be viable to cover its costs. I wonder how many lines now even cover their cost. NYC to DC probably makes a profit.
@@canyonoverlook9937 cleveland to Nashville would be profitable
@@canyonoverlook9937 especially with intersections at Cincinnati and Cleveland
would kill to have the river cities line back
You mentioned the Michigan Services. Which routes are funded by the Michigan Dept of Transportation and which are funded by Amtrak?
I never knew that the Sunset Limited ran all the way to Miami. But we really need the New Orleans to Jacksonville segment back. Florida felt "amtrak-empty" when we lost that train
15:20 the North Star is coming back soon! Funding has been approved and it should be completed in roughly five years
The Amtrak train I miss the most is The San Diegan. I used to take that train when I went to visit my sister, and when I worked at my employer's San Diego branch. But I understand the Coast Starlight can be caught in L.A, and goes down to San Diego.
And the last I read, the Desert Wind might be back as early as 2025.
You're thinking of the Pacific Surfliner which goes to SD, while the Coast Starlight terminates in Los Angeles. You can also transfer from the Starlight to the Surfliner in San Luis Obispo (central CA), where the Surfliner originates.
Another local option to get there (if one tires of being on the Amtrak or is starting from LA) is to take the regional Metrolink train from LA to Oceanside CA and transfer to the regional COASTER train which goes between Oceanside and San Diego downtown/old town.
@@briansguyThank you for the clarification. It's been a while since to rode that train.