In regard to what you were talking about around 2:38, I COMPLETELY understand that many other people are so set in THEIR ways and how THEY do things, and love to criticize other peoples work and the way they do things faster than they would their own, but this video is about YOU and the way YOU are doing it, and that’s great! If it works for you, then it works for you. Everyone has different ways of doing things and this is just your way. I’m very grateful for your time, effort and energy put into making this informational and educational video. So carry on my friend. Keep up the good work. Cheers to you and may the wind always be at your back.
I've bent wood with steam but probably didnt do it right. The back raised splinters. I wrapped and glued it and the bow still shoots better than it did. What I have tried successfully is bacon grease and heat from either the stove or the torch. Be careful with the hickory though. It smells so good the kids want to eat it. Lost 3 bows that way.
haha, I dont know why I am just now seeing this comment.. funny stuff on the kids. you might not have gotten it hot enough with the steam. it's got to steam on a rolling boil for 15-30 minutes. Straight heat can work great too, i just like the uniformity of steam heating without dryin out the wood, but the grease definitely helps with that as well. lots of ways to get it done
Water boils at lower temperatures in the mountains compared to sea levels. At 1500 meter attitude the steam will be 95 degrees celsius which is not enough to bend the wood properly. Few degrees coud be crucial since the 100C is already on the low-end for the job.
folks that want to do it themselves will learn and try for themselves regardless, and will watch videos and build relationships with other bowyers willing to teach. It's definitely not new technology. If they don't learn it here, they will from someone else. Hoarding information isn't my style, and if they are not successful in their endeavors and look to buy a bow, they will be more likely to return to the source of the information. Sharing knowledge comes around full circle in the end.
I have a question. I've looked and looked, but cannot find the answer. When making your own bow, at what point do you make the recurve? Before, or after the tillering process?
To everyone on here just a bit of advice: DO NOT steam bend for less than an hour especially the first time doing this Ryan doesnt bother to mention hes using osage orange which is probably the most tolerant wood you could use with little issues. Also just did this with a maple board bow and it splintered with only 45 minutes on full boil
I know in the video you mentioned that this works for all woods, but just for safety, would you happen to know if this is viable when trying to make a bow with bamboo?
so according to your advice, recurve the tips THEN tiller? @7:19 you say that you can tiller the bow something like an hour after you stick it into your 'tip flippin' form, if you flip the last 5" or so, how far do do you stop removing material during the tillering process to allow for 'static' tips? do you just tiller the whole limb tip and all? i am preparing to start a red oak board bow, and i want to flip the tips some, should i do it at the end 10lbs before my target weight, after bandsaw roughing out, or before or after backing? i plan to use something to keep splinters from lifting. sorry for the long, detailed, question but i feel like you're the most accomplished craftsman in this field thus you can give the best answer. thanks in advance!
so it's not the moisture from the steam that allows the wood to bend, it's the heat? that makes a lot more sense. I've been under the impression for so long that it was the moisture and you had to inundate the wood you wanted to bend so that it could actually bend, then you had to let it completely dry, which seemed like such a long, slow process for bow making, lol. this really helped me, thanks.
yup, for sure. The heat is what does it. In fact if you steam a piece of green wood, it will actually dry faster. The steam is evaporating water and will draw it out of the wood. If you ever try to steam bend a piece that isn't fully seasoned, you will see a bunch of little drying checks form in the wood where it was dried too quickly, even while using steam.
Osage and Yew I have to buy. None around here. I have no consistent source either, just wherever I can pick them up. The other white woods like hickory or elm I cut here and also split
always wondered how the limb was bent back well the bow making technology is now quite clear if I can build a 45 lb. bow like this I have a sufficient 'bow'
Thanks for the video Ryan. You said that this bending method works with other woods. Would hickory need to set in the form longer or be bent a little further than a wood like osage to allow for the give back?
Do you mean the perpendicular cut into the form is 8" or the radius cut is 8"? I've made a couple osage bows, and actually used the edge of a round back chair to recurve them. I plan on making a form like you have there when I make my next one.
Awesome video. BTW I can't stand my electric range 🤣 but I have one. Wish I had gas again lol. Honestly though, an electric range doesn't put the heat out around the edge of the pot so it's probably much superior to a gas range for this purpose.
I failed on my first attempt, when I split to center, not enough thickness at the fade on the top limb,my second attempt started out with a larger diameter sapling ,4 inches on the small end,in no small way, you were instrumental in my success beyond my expectations. Recurve 62 # lbs @ 28 inches - 58 inches tip to tip I was shooting for 45# to 50 # got 49 #lbs I wasn't expecting the dramatic increase of 11 # lbs ,expecting more like 5 # Some string follow, I'll be more patient drying, put on the dash of my pickup, in full sun all day for several days (120 ° plus) I have been looking for a stait piece of dog wood long enough for a bow,I found and cut one 7 feet by 10 inches in diameter, straight and clean, few knots, do I cut off the sap wood and chase a ring or do I treat it like Hickory I also found a hop hornbeam that has several straight branches and trunk ,no knots or inclusions, how do I tackle these two woods, profile ect.
Using a wood fire instead of the stove and clay pots with water instead of metal pots for steam bending . I usually hear they did more dry heating by just lettting the fire burn down to the hot orange embers and placing the bow (with no pot) just high enough over the embers to where it heats up but doesn't burn the wood.
Michael Sturm If you pick out the seeds out of the red arils then you can eat the arils and they are very yummy! Don't eat seeds, leaves or anything but the arils, it's deadly!
the limb likely wasnt thick enough to hold the curve. also, if its a white wood like hickory or elm, it wont hold as strong as osage so you have to go further with it
knowing your draw length would be the most important factor. I can make a bow for you. If you've not been there yet, my website is www.gillsprimitivearchery.com
Typically a person of your height would require a 68" recurve bow assuming average human proportions. This isn't always the case as you may have freakishly long legs and short hands or short legs and long hands. To find your draw length, measure your wingspan, the distance from middle finger tip to middle finger tip divided by 2.5.
So youre good to go after just an hour? Lol I just left my bow with clamps over night. But I used a heat gun. Maybe steams a faster process ? Awesome video btw. Subbed 😀
that should be way more than long enough. depends how thick it is, but also make sure its a full boil when steaming and cover with foil to retain the heat
thickness will vary greatly on bow weight and limb length. Just keep the limb the same thickness as the outer 1/3rd and you'll be fine. If you continue to taper it real thin, the curves will pull out.
Hey Ryan what do you use for overlay material, I watched your video on applying them. I am building my first bow and like the look it gives a bow. I went to the Mo. Bow Building Jamboree at Marshall Mo this past week and almost got a finished bow. Man do I understand why these bows sell for 600 bucks, specially when its 100 degrees outside. Thanks for all you do to promote this great hobby-lifestyle. Kenny Backes
One more question if you have time to answer, my 65 inch Osage Orange bow only came in mid 30's poundage. To get more weight do you suggest shortening the bow to say where the string nocks are at, or putting the reflex in it like you do in your video. Do you think I can gain enough to get 50+ pounds out of it? I ordered your book this morning btw. Thanks for your reply. Kenny
No prob, but unfortunately you will be hard pressed to get it anywhere near 50#. You can shorten it and add reflex but you will likely only gain 8-10 lbs. If you reflex it and then back it with rawhide you can gain a little more as well.
Who else thinks this guy is a genius....?
Much easier than cutting strings, layering into a form, doing a clam down, clean up and after shave....
In regard to what you were talking about around 2:38, I COMPLETELY understand that many other people are so set in THEIR ways and how THEY do things, and love to criticize other peoples work and the way they do things faster than they would their own, but this video is about YOU and the way YOU are doing it, and that’s great! If it works for you, then it works for you. Everyone has different ways of doing things and this is just your way. I’m very grateful for your time, effort and energy put into making this informational and educational video. So carry on my friend. Keep up the good work. Cheers to you and may the wind always be at your back.
Hey man I’ve been struggling with removing twist from my bow. You’re a genius!!!! 👏
I've bent wood with steam but probably didnt do it right. The back raised splinters. I wrapped and glued it and the bow still shoots better than it did. What I have tried successfully is bacon grease and heat from either the stove or the torch. Be careful with the hickory though. It smells so good the kids want to eat it. Lost 3 bows that way.
haha, I dont know why I am just now seeing this comment.. funny stuff on the kids. you might not have gotten it hot enough with the steam. it's got to steam on a rolling boil for 15-30 minutes. Straight heat can work great too, i just like the uniformity of steam heating without dryin out the wood, but the grease definitely helps with that as well. lots of ways to get it done
Water boils at lower temperatures in the mountains compared to sea levels. At 1500 meter attitude the steam will be 95 degrees celsius which is not enough to bend the wood properly.
Few degrees coud be crucial since the 100C is already on the low-end for the job.
Pretty cool, you do that for a living but are still showing everyone how to do it.
folks that want to do it themselves will learn and try for themselves regardless, and will watch videos and build relationships with other bowyers willing to teach. It's definitely not new technology. If they don't learn it here, they will from someone else. Hoarding information isn't my style, and if they are not successful in their endeavors and look to buy a bow, they will be more likely to return to the source of the information. Sharing knowledge comes around full circle in the end.
I have a question. I've looked and looked, but cannot find the answer. When making your own bow, at what point do you make the recurve? Before, or after the tillering process?
I'm definitely going to have to do this on my next bow!
Great video Ryan thanks!
Thank you for the lesson.
To everyone on here just a bit of advice:
DO NOT steam bend for less than an hour especially the first time doing this
Ryan doesnt bother to mention hes using osage orange which is probably the most tolerant wood you could use with little issues.
Also just did this with a maple board bow and it splintered with only 45 minutes on full boil
I've always had better luck with steam than dry heat.
Got an ad for Xero Shoes. Actually a well targeted ad
Hey, great info, thanks
thanks much for following along
This was a super helpful video. Thanks for sharing!
pretty cool. simple thinking
best way to do it
Can you tiller the same day?
Thanks, I was hesitant, but you explained it so easy
I know in the video you mentioned that this works for all woods, but just for safety, would you happen to know if this is viable when trying to make a bow with bamboo?
so according to your advice, recurve the tips THEN tiller? @7:19 you say that you can tiller the bow something like an hour after you stick it into your 'tip flippin' form, if you flip the last 5" or so, how far do do you stop removing material during the tillering process to allow for 'static' tips? do you just tiller the whole limb tip and all? i am preparing to start a red oak board bow, and i want to flip the tips some, should i do it at the end 10lbs before my target weight, after bandsaw roughing out, or before or after backing? i plan to use something to keep splinters from lifting. sorry for the long, detailed, question but i feel like you're the most accomplished craftsman in this field thus you can give the best answer. thanks in advance!
I literally boil water with the bow on top of it, eating and watching this.
so it's not the moisture from the steam that allows the wood to bend, it's the heat? that makes a lot more sense. I've been under the impression for so long that it was the moisture and you had to inundate the wood you wanted to bend so that it could actually bend, then you had to let it completely dry, which seemed like such a long, slow process for bow making, lol. this really helped me, thanks.
yup, for sure. The heat is what does it. In fact if you steam a piece of green wood, it will actually dry faster. The steam is evaporating water and will draw it out of the wood. If you ever try to steam bend a piece that isn't fully seasoned, you will see a bunch of little drying checks form in the wood where it was dried too quickly, even while using steam.
@@huntprimitive9918 that's very good to know.... Now, I just need to convince my wife to let me do it inside, lol.
@@huntprimitive9918 I'm assuming this will work on a bow with working limbs as well?
That's how I do it too, exept with bamboo then I use dry heat.
Same 😂 thought I was the only one
where do you get your staves do you split them your self
Osage and Yew I have to buy. None around here. I have no consistent source either, just wherever I can pick them up. The other white woods like hickory or elm I cut here and also split
Ryan Gill Thanks
Do you think it is possible to make a green wood bow that is hunting material? A seasoned green stave of course
always wondered how the limb was bent back well the bow making technology is now quite clear if I can build a 45 lb. bow like this I have a sufficient 'bow'
How much is your rawhide backing? And how do over it? Tried to get on to your web site but it said it couldn't load.
if i wanted to do this should i steam before or after floor tillering?
I do it after floor tillering
What are your thoughts on attempting a Plains style bow?
Thanks for the video Ryan. You said that this bending method works with other woods. Would hickory need to set in the form longer or be bent a little further than a wood like osage to allow for the give back?
yeah hickory will pull out a little more so bend it a little further for sure. It holds recurves pretty well, just not as well as osage.
Ryan Gill - Primitive Hunter Okay. Thanks!
Why do I have a failure sometimes and the wood cracks during bending ?? What could be a reason?
what do you have under that aluminum foil? Is there a lid on that pot?
Ok so in that case what kind of wood would you use? Like is it fresh cut wood or 2×4s cut down to size?
Do you mean the perpendicular cut into the form is 8" or the radius cut is 8"? I've made a couple osage bows, and actually used the edge of a round back chair to recurve them. I plan on making a form like you have there when I make my next one.
it would 8 inches in diameter of the rounded object that I used to trace the form.. like a bowl or dinner plate, paint can, etc.
Thanks!
Hi, atm im seasoning my stave and i want to practice in green wood so would u recommend me to use steam in green wood to recurve it?
Awesome video. BTW I can't stand my electric range 🤣 but I have one. Wish I had gas again lol. Honestly though, an electric range doesn't put the heat out around the edge of the pot so it's probably much superior to a gas range for this purpose.
I failed on my first attempt, when I split to center, not enough thickness at the fade on the top limb,my second attempt started out with a larger diameter sapling ,4 inches on the small end,in no small way, you were instrumental in my success beyond my expectations.
Recurve
62 # lbs @ 28 inches - 58 inches tip to tip
I was shooting for 45# to 50 # got 49 #lbs
I wasn't expecting the dramatic increase of 11 # lbs ,expecting more like 5 #
Some string follow, I'll be more patient drying, put on the dash of my pickup, in full sun all day for several days (120 ° plus)
I have been looking for a stait piece of dog wood long enough for a bow,I found and cut one 7 feet by 10 inches in diameter, straight and clean, few knots, do I cut off the sap wood and chase a ring or do I treat it like Hickory
I also found a hop hornbeam that has several straight branches and trunk ,no knots or inclusions, how do I tackle these two woods, profile ect.
Would you happen to have a printout available of the angle/shape youre using in the wooden jig you put the heated wood into?
How would people have done this primitivly?
Using a wood fire instead of the stove and clay pots with water instead of metal pots for steam bending . I usually hear they did more dry heating by just lettting the fire burn down to the hot orange embers and placing the bow (with no pot) just high enough over the embers to where it heats up but doesn't burn the wood.
Thanks for sharing
Does this method work with Yew as well?
I have 2 real nice Yew staves I am going to get started on in a week or so and I would like to flip the tips.
yes, I use it on my yew staves as well. Best of luck
Michael Sturm If you pick out the seeds out of the red arils then you can eat the arils and they are very yummy! Don't eat seeds, leaves or anything but the arils, it's deadly!
how do you correct a propeller twist AFTER sinew backing?
Please tell my why my curve I put on my recurve bow bend back into place. My bow also has a slight twist on one of the limbs too.
the limb likely wasnt thick enough to hold the curve. also, if its a white wood like hickory or elm, it wont hold as strong as osage so you have to go further with it
I use a damp rag around the tips with tin foil over the rag.then heat up with a heat gun, steaming with dry heat if you will..........
Cain this be done to a board bow?
Could I buy a recurve from you , I'm 5'9 what size do you recommend
knowing your draw length would be the most important factor. I can make a bow for you. If you've not been there yet, my website is www.gillsprimitivearchery.com
Typically a person of your height would require a 68" recurve bow assuming average human proportions. This isn't always the case as you may have freakishly long legs and short hands or short legs and long hands. To find your draw length, measure your wingspan, the distance from middle finger tip to middle finger tip divided by 2.5.
So youre good to go after just an hour? Lol I just left my bow with clamps over night. But I used a heat gun. Maybe steams a faster process ? Awesome video btw. Subbed 😀
Give the limbs a tinfoil hat.
make it gay
@@spongebobsquarepants8403 make it homosexual
So I checked out the site but didn't see bows for sale or prices...where can I find what you sale ?
on each bow model there are fields to fill out for customization for tips, grip, etc.. once you fill all that out, the price options will show up
when you make a bow .wood needs to be complete dry or not? thanks
yes, I season wood a minimum of 1 year before building a bow
Is there a trick to following the one growth ring on the back of the bow? Hoping someone can answer me that before I purchase a Osage stave
how long do u steam with american elm? 45 mins is not long enough
that should be way more than long enough. depends how thick it is, but also make sure its a full boil when steaming and cover with foil to retain the heat
Can I use steam to straighten my handle my bow is black locust and has a slight bend at the bottom fade to the side ?
yup, steam good for 30-40 minutes and draw in into position with a board and clamps.
Thanks Ryan. your videos are awesome do you have one on cane arrows?
Thanks very much! and yes, I have one on building cane arrows... just search Ryan Gill building cane arrows and it should pop up
Hey Ryan, What is the thickness of that bow limb tip that is being recurved ? Is there a recommended thickness for a limb tip to hold a recurve ?
thickness will vary greatly on bow weight and limb length. Just keep the limb the same thickness as the outer 1/3rd and you'll be fine. If you continue to taper it real thin, the curves will pull out.
Hey Ryan what do you use for overlay material, I watched your video on applying them. I am building my first bow and like the look it gives a bow. I went to the Mo. Bow Building Jamboree at Marshall Mo this past week and almost got a finished bow. Man do I understand why these bows sell for 600 bucks, specially when its 100 degrees outside. Thanks for all you do to promote this great hobby-lifestyle.
Kenny Backes
thanks very much. I use so many different things. In the video I used Ipe. Any hardwood works fine but I also use various horns and antlers as well
One more question if you have time to answer, my 65 inch Osage Orange bow only came in mid 30's poundage. To get more weight do you suggest shortening the bow to say where the string nocks are at, or putting the reflex in it like you do in your video. Do you think I can gain enough to get 50+ pounds out of it? I ordered your book this morning btw. Thanks for your reply. Kenny
No prob, but unfortunately you will be hard pressed to get it anywhere near 50#. You can shorten it and add reflex but you will likely only gain 8-10 lbs. If you reflex it and then back it with rawhide you can gain a little more as well.
How much time on the boiler?
could this be done after a bow has already been tillered?
yup, absolutely. YOu may have to adjust the tiller slightly after
thanks!
Cool!!!!
🏹🎯✌️👍
Can't you just boil the tips?
you can, but they are often hard to get into a pot.. steaming over a rolling boil does the same thing
The entire world of woodworking uses steam to bend wood. Proves that some archery folks are some dogmatic weirdos.
How wide and how thick is your tips when you are doing this? I’m using 1.5 x 3/4” red oak from Lowe’s . TIA