Jules Blames NB Folks For Transphobic Legislation?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Hunter Schafer, the actress behind the character Jules from Euphoria liked a post that some are describing as "transmedicalist".
Follow me
╰linktr.ee/katb...
Book me
╰ ben@gotham-artists.com
Sponsor me
╰ katblaque@standard.tv
![[🔴LIVE] งานประกาศรางวัล MAYA TV AWARDS 2024 : มายามหาชน](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nwmWYXXVwBY/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm getting a few comments saying some version of "She just liked the comment it doesn't mean that she agrees with it."
What I didn't mention in this video is that she also commented on the post with exclamation marks. Usually, people don't do that unless they agree with the post and what it's saying. I think in pretty much every other scenario, that would be a pretty clear indication that someone agrees with the sentiments of the post. I respect that many people idolize her and if you couldn't tell from this video, I'm not attacking her as a person nor do I believe that she should be so-called canceled for this, but to suggest that she doesn't agree with the sentiments in the post is a little silly. What I'm hoping is that some of the discourse around this has shifted her perspective away from The thing said in the post, but I think it's optimistic to believe that someone can like a post and comment exclamations on it and then not actually agree with what's being said.
I agree with you wholly there is a lot to unpack here. The thing is one can agree with parts of it and like it for those parts but disagree with other parts of it still. For example the last part about Black trans women. As you know the "privilege" of passing as a woman of color is no privilege at all. So much of the conversation about this equates it to classism, racism even. Binary trans women of color are having a very different experience to a non transtioning white XX female who is non binary. This issue does not map in a clean 1-1 and onto manner to any simple idea of NB oppressed and downtrodden and full blow post ops are all thin white and rich.
For the record I agree with most of what you say here and therefore I like it while disagreeing with some parts of it.
Plz don't call enbies a person with a 'cis body'.
“!!!!” Could have meant (WTF is this)
Does she actually think nonbinary people "live in cis bodies?"
Does she also think *binary* trans people who don't change their bodies "live in cis bodies?"
If anything, it's often harder for enbies to access medical transition. Often we have to lie and say we are binary or we can't get access to hormones or surgery.
Four words: Correlation is not causation.
Seeing enbies becoming more visible, seeing conservatives pass legislation to hurt trans people, and concluding that one caused the other... seems like looking for an easy answer to a complex and overwhelming problem.
This right here. Just want something to point at and blame but no it's not that simple not to mention how very harmful that kind of blaming is.
I would argue that transphobic legislation was passed because trans people as a whole became more visible and that scared conservatives because we disrupt their desire for how society should be ordered. I truely believe that this legislation would be happening even if nonbinary people didn't exist. Truely, the legislation isn't about nonbinary people. It's about controlling people's bodies and punishing people for attempting to exist beyond cis man and cis woman.
I understand some binary trans people lashing out against nonbinary people. It's easier to hurt those who are weaker or on the same level as you than it is to get to the people in power who are actually responsible. That doesn't make it remotely okay, obviously, but I do understand it.
Even though bigoted legislators is arguably an easier answer
@@00s.v.n.s00 lol that's the thing that gets me. I think the easiest answer is the actual answer here. They're not sitting around debating the nuance of gender between non-binary folks and people who are binary. They just hate all trans people and leave it there
not only that focus on the fuckin people that have the most power in this situation. she's like "youre making people hate us" first off...talk to any people who have a problem with trans people, and it has nothing to specifically with enbies. any opponent of trans people thinks what they are at their core is unacceptable and should not be normalized, they probably hate all LGBT stuff and dont even see any nuance between any of the communities, theyre interchangeably deviants to these people, and the blaire whites of the world are not going to minimize that hatred with a philosophy like that.
people who throw in a mention of "black trans women" into any post because they think it makes their point more valid are so sus
The phrase is just a cute, little token it charm. They don't actually care about the humanity and person hood of black trans women.
What about Black Enbies?
What about Black non-medicalists?
@@Khrene my literal first thoughts, upon reading it.
It's so bullshit. A lot of very influential Black trans women were not completely binary in their identities. It's been around forever
It makes me so uncomfortable that they refer to NB people as having a “cis body”, its such a limited understanding of what being NB looks like.
Agree with everything you said too, this anger is so misdirected - the idea that these transphobes and fascists are going to support binary trans people if non-binary people shut up is absurd.
I know a lot of nb people who have transitioned medically. It's so fucking weird that they don't get that nb literally means they aren't falling within an absolute so it makes sense that a lot of them would do something about that.
Is it really so hard to let everyone live their best lives these days or are people really that miserable at the prospect of another person's happiness?
It’s also just throwing binary trans people who haven’t transitioned under the bus. At the end of the day the argument seems to boil down to “pass or dont be publicly trans” which is a really interesting take for supposed trans advocates to hold
@@emmetharrigan5234 THIS they don’t even care that this hurts binary trans trans ppl too bc it forces them to be hyper feminine/hyper masculine and pass as cis in order to be valid.
@@nate6045 also the idea that a body that hasn't undergone medical transition is a "cis body" is already a wildly fucked up statement, because it implies that trans people aren't truly trans until they go through medical treatment. not only is that just wrong , it implies that the millions of trans people who can't medically transition because they can't afford to, cannot legally do so, and/or can't do it for medical reasons aren't truly trans. transmedicalists only serve to help the people pushing for more anti-trans legislation, because ultimately both groups want to strictly limit everyone's access to trans healthcare.
@@sillyd0g Well yeah. I didn't even think that was worth mentioning because it should be a given to Kat's audience.
I think OP was, in the dumbest way possible, trying to say non binary people are cis people physically and trans neurologically/emotionally/mentally/etc which is also still a wtf kind of implication. Any way you slice it, calling nonbinary people "cis bodied" is also saying every pre-pubescent trans kid is "cis bodied" because there's no way for them to medically transition unless OP is trying to imply that people really do let trans kids transition before age-appropriate puberty which is somehow even worse.
Honestly, there's so much wrong with that statement to the point where every time you try to unpack it it's somehow presenting a new, even worse implication like some kind of truscum matryoshka.
Also the whole “listen to binary black trans women” was such a cop out lmao. The vast vast majority of “transmedicalists” are binary white trans men, particularly those early in medical transition. What they really meant was “I’m going to regurgitate a slogan about black trans women in an attempt to legitimize my point without actually saying anything”
Also, it implies that black non binary people don't exist.
Hi 👋 there Magnus i agreed 💯 with u 😊😊😊😎🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈👍👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️❤️💜💜💜🔥🔥💋💋
If you visit transmed communities, the vast majority of transmeds are not trans men - they're usually just older trans people. I've seen an actual amount of trans women be trans meds, if not more tbh. Regardless of who it is, being a transmed is always bad.
Yes 🥰🥰
kalvin garrah and his consequences
I also hate the idea that "making us look bad" disqualifies someone's gender. Like, the transphobic reception of non-binary people doesn't change the validity of non-binary identity. Same as when masc gay men judge femme gay men for "making us look bad". Like yes, homophobic people wouldnt like them, but it doesn't make them any less gay or any less valid as a way of being
exactly! bc nb people (or femme queer men in your example (love that example btw)) differ even more from the norm. It's basically this whole conversation about lgbtq+ assimilation vs lgbtq+ liberation again. And some members of the lgbtq+ community (like transmedicalists) feel that it's easier to assimilate if the lgbtq+ community is “just like cishet people” (that's also where the slogan “love is love” came from. I have nothing against that slogan, but it doesn't represent the whole lgbtq+ community as it doesn't cover aro ppl or gender). From my experience as a disabled ace lesbian of color that also leads to some people being racist or ableist. But the thing is, that mindset's not going to work cause if only some already privileged people in the community are being accepted, the system still doesn't change and there's still all kinds of forms of discrimination. So basically what I wanna say is fuck the system and I hope you have a nice day
@@plantparent6469 Absolutely! Even people who differ from the norm, have difficulty accepting people who differ from *their* norm.
I recently read a book about asexuality and one of the things it talked about was how disabled and ace communities often both reject disabled aces, because disabled people are used to being infantilised and treated like they're inherently unsexual, and asexual people are used to being told it's a medical problem. Which obviously neither group likes (and rightly so). But sometimes they both refuse to accept disabled aces. Because they think anyone whose experience doesn't align with their own "makes them look bad". When like, just because a certain combo of traits theoretically fits a stereotype, that doesn't mean the person is forwarding stereotypes. It's just who they are. And trying to say that aces can't have medical issues, or that all disabled people must be allo, is just replacing the stereotypes with new ones.
Which I think all just proves how important intersectionality is. The ace stuff is kind of off topic but as a disabled ace I found it really interesting :)
Also like, cishets are always going to hate us. They aren't going to love you either, lmao. There is no: "Making us look bad!" when they already think of us as not even human. They want to be accepted so badly that they aren't willing to acknowledge that the same people they look up to hate them, and think they're mentally ill.
Transmedicalism is just complex internalized transphobia and denial of reality. Bottom line is when you join these groups, they're going to turn on you one day because they're just as pathetic and miserable, they thrive off of the pain of others because they also hate themselves.
This is exactly the same argument as "stop being flamboyant, your making gay people look bad" 🙄
this is literally the same basic argument that has been--and always will be--used to goad a cultural bloc into attacking itself. you can find/replace the target audience all the way back to the rights of anyone and everyone that isn't a landholding cis white male. their playbook is extremely shallow but disturbingly effective.
or "stop being trans you're making normal cis gay people look bad"
Precisely. Absolutely.
The fact that this person states that NB people are doing this from “cis bodies” just shows that they do not take gender queer identities seriously and do not fundamentally understand (or maybe do understand but don’t agree with) how varied NB is as a term. As a dysphoric NB, I’m fighting this same fight and it it’s infuriating having to fight the law makers that hate us while managing being rejected by my own community.
For some it seems to be hard to understand that non cis = trans. Also statistically speaking, considering that gender is a spectrum, binary identifying trans people can be safely assumed to be the minority. The entire discussion ignores intersex people who often identify as non-binary.
I know I despise the term cis bodies. Us nonbinary people don’t have cis bodies. That’s incredibly dismissive
@@mariagiuliarodriguez3622 Can you please form a coherent sentence wow
Honestly! "cis bodies" was so jarring to me. Transmeds dont think trans people are trans enough just like terfs dont thinks cis women are women enough. When you start throwing that language around you will also hurt other binary trans people.
@@mariagiuliarodriguez3622 citation needed
Transmedicalists: "Listen to black trans women!"
Black binary trans woman: *disagrees*
Transmedicalists: 🤯
(mostly white) afab femme enbies: 📢📢📢📢📢📢📢📢📢📢📢🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊
@@helena4440 wsp with that??-
they only care about minorities they actually agree with lol
@@helena4440 explain?
NO WE VERY Much AGREE WITH THE POST Were NOT A MONOLITH .. JUST SOMETHINGE OF US GET PAID TO SIDE WITH Which EVER White Party PROVIDES THE MOST EQUITY.. THANKS TO WHITE SUPREMACY.. SO.. dont get to excited
the term “cis body” threw me into a spiral wow i cant imagine having that much hatred for non binary people that you’d hate on every genderqueer person who hasn’t medically transitioned?? and then to throw black trans women under the bus afterwards
We really need to stop fighting each other.
Amen
Judging by the community post on this topic I pretty much think that's never gonma happen
That will never happen because the truth is for the most part the community dosent have anything in common with each other beyond gender identity/sexuality
@@NeloBladeOfRanni exactly. To some people, specially white trans women, what they ultimately want is to be assimilated and treated as a white woman, not just “a woman”. “Fuck you, got mine” type of mentality.
Lol this is always such a funny take because it implies that enbies are contributing to the problem, when it's just Truscum assholes like Natalie Wynn, Buck Angel, and Blaire White publicly shitting themselves over enbies because they think we haven't suffered enough dysphoria to have our identities validated.
Having had top surgery recently (non binary, no HRT), I do agree that life is a lot scarier when you have a "visibly trans" naked body vs a body that can pass as a cis person's. I'm closeted at work and I have to be careful in the changing room and pray that I don't get into an accident where I need to undress (totally possible!). But like just because being closeted was easier before... doesn't mean I was more privileged back then. The only so called "privileges" associated with a "cis body" is that you're forced into the closet more often, and people feel way more comfortable misgendering you by ignoring that you're trans, and both of those things are horrible.
also being non-binary made getting surgery way harder. lol.
I do imagine that nb ppl have a harder time when they have uncommon pronouns and go through physical transition.
Its basically walking around with a giant neon arrow pointing to you saying "I'm trans". That could be scary.
I do think that the "cis body" (which??? I thought only the mind was cis, not the body. Otherwise a "fully transitioned" binary person would be considered cis, which they're not, so??), is referring to people who have not medically transitioned. Even then, you're just dealing with a lifetime of being misgendered, which imo, doesn't sound great. So why shit on them??
There's downsides to transitioning and not transitioning. Whether that is the outside world being hostile or the internal anguish so many of us experience aka dysphoria.
I do think however that resources and support should be separated between non dysphoric and dysphoric ppl. Like, a space for each so the different needs can be better met, instead of just throwing us all together in the same place. Being nb or binary has got nothing to do with it tho...
nb people don’t have “cis bodies”. We don’t “pass”. That’s erasure
@@dio_hoestar_4204 What kind of spaces would need to be separated between non dysphoric and dysphoric people? Like a support group? I've been to a lot of trans social events and never felt like there was a big divide between people who were and weren't dysphoric.
Having a "cis body" and closeting might give some kind of anonymity and a blanket of 'safety' (which is not guaranteed lol), but it is mental torment. Every "hey ladies" "that girl" "she" and the like is painful. Wanting to extend past the limits of your body but it never really works. And then having to find the right person who will understand you if you even get the chance to try medical options if you want that.
:(
@@sonotfetch yeeeaah I have seen many incidents from people in top surgery groups where a formerly pleasant relationship turned aggressive and controlling after they decided to get top surgery :( "waiting for the other shoe to drop" does not sound like any kind of safety to me
These kinds of conversations remind me that people are not in real community with other trans folks. Literally every nb person in my life struggles to access medical, transitional care. Even more so than some binary trans folks because of transmedicalist discrimination in the medical establishment.
LITERALLY. OP's argument seemed to chronically online to me. Even accessing non-trans healthcare can be so tough when you're visibly non-binary. People all across the spectrum of trans identities have their struggles with healthcare (speaking mainly on trans americans here cause oof). To just deny the fact that nb people struggle as well? uhhhhh seems like it's completely turning a blind eye to the real systemic issues of trans healthcare tbh
Yep. As a cis woman, I already see just how the medical system, especially here in the United States, can be discriminatory towards trans people. It's super unnecessary for binary trans folk to try to gatekeep already shitty healthcare from NB trans folk. The situation in healthcare for everyone in the trans community needs to be fixed so everyone can benefit, not just those who perceive themselves to be "superior" to everyone else.
@@moche2303 ...but how would anyone know if someone is nb if the point is to not be one or the other?
@@whatever3145 there is a stereotypical nonbinary look which is what I’ assuming they’re referring to. Also visibly nonbinary could refer to someone who is loud and proud about being nonbinary
At this point as progressive/ political/ queer/ minority communities grow larger and larger i find the thing about "oh they're not in the REAL community" to be not relevant.
We will just have to accept that there will always be bad or ignorant people within our communities and start from there to improve things
Back when I first came out as trans over two decades ago, transmedicalism was so ubiquitous within the community that it didn’t even have a name, it was just what being trans was. Even as someone who fits the “true transsexual” mould pretty well I still found it extremely toxic and unpleasant, particularly as while they’ll say it’s just about wanting surgery, in reality it’s so much about perpetuating gender stereotypes as well. While I hate that it’s still about I’m also super glad that it now seems to be relatively niche.
I’m sorry you had to go through all of it.
So a trans women wanting boobs and feeling the need to phisiologically change their body to ease their torment is just gender stereotyping now?
This is what we are talking about though.... NB have their own fluid gender identity, you didn't need to invalidate and overwrite the "old" identity, they are two different things and that is fine...
why do you insist on conflating the two, invalidating the diverse medical needs of binary trans people as just " internalized transphobia " now voicing their opinions isn't valid anymore ?
Many NBS chose to allign with the transgender label purely out of academical/semantic reasons.
This is the gaslighting that pisses many people off, many willfully ignore the theoretical background of gender expression and manage to conflate them into simple socialized "feelings" that can be erased or deemed as "archaic" on a whim
@@mariagiuliarodriguez3622 That's not what I meant, I was saying that in my experience people with a transmedicalist mindset will say that it's just that they believe trans people have to want surgery to be trans but will also criticise/mock trans people who don't conform to gender stereotypes even if they have medically transitioned. I literally said in my comment that I fit the transmed ideal of a "real transsexual" pretty well, which I thought most would recognise to mean that I have a binary gender identity and have medically transitioned, so I'm not sure why you'd think I'd be describing procedures that I've had myself as stereotyping.
I came out 2 years ago (trans guy here) and the transmedicalist thing was taking it's last breaths, or so I thought, about then. I believe the transmedicalism has been driven historically (at least in part) by the cis medical community. I know a trans guy who transitioned almost 20 years ago who got *bottom surgery* in order to be able to change his name and gender legally. He didn't particularly want the surgery but was desperate to change his name/gender legally and went through a massive surgery in order to change his legal situation. As well as having to pretend to have a girlfriend because gay trans men were not accepted for any level of medical transition. It's sad to see this outdated and oppressive viewpoint being leveled against the NB's of our community, especially from our own.
I'm not sure if the person I was responding to here deleted their comment or if they've blocked me, so apologies if this response doesn't make sense!
I’m nonbinary. I’m trans. My body is not CIS. That was such a slap in the face. My body was not cis before I started testosterone, just as any binary trans person’s body is not cis, because they are not cis. Cis and trans are words that describe the relationship between natal sex and gender identity and you literally cannot have a cis body if you are not cis because there’s no such thing as a cis body divorced from the gender of the person inhabiting it.
All this infighting is only making us weaker to the pushback. Y’all, we’re on the same side.
🧐🙄
It's equally infuriating as it is ridiculously laughable that piggytawain is blaming NB people for stuff that cis people do, and to obviously conflate GNC and NB together. To say that I have a "cis body" because I identify as NB, despite me wanting top surgery but not bottom surgery, is frankly hurtful but more than that simply wrong. It also assumes that ALL binary trans people express themselves and want the exact same things in the exact same way, as if there is only one "correct" way to be or present as a man or woman. This mindset easily bleeds into the belief that the very conservative people theyre talking about agree with; it can easily enforce telling a trans woman that she's not really an "actual" woman bc she doesnt shave or take estrogen or anything "traditionally" seen as female. It's baffling and simply ignorant.
Ngl this gave me blair white flashbacks
@@airplanes_aren.t_real for a brief moment I forgot Blair white existed and I thought this was a gossip girl reference xx
@@mightymeatymech Blair Waldorf says trans and nb rights
_It also assumes that ALL binary trans people express themselves and want the exact same things in the exact same way, as if there is only one "correct" way to be or present as a man or woman._
My thoughts exactly. Maybe she's never heard of transmen or transwomen who didn't want surgeries or hormones, but if that's the case, she's not exactly qualified to be speaking on this topic as a whole, IMO.
I'm another nonbinary person (agender) with dysphoria, and I don't blame confused, tired, legitimately frustrated or angry binary transfolk like PiggyTaiwan for the fact that I have been unable to find any enby-friendly, trans-affirming counseling or medical transition care near me. I blame the fascistic Florida governor and legislature. Despite living in one of the most progressive counties in the state, there's only so far most clinics, hospitals or even independent providers are willing to go in skirting the line of the law.
We're all being affected by the same people in this issue, and it's got nothing to do with any of us. Everyone's got their own shit to unpack, but in this case, the calls are *not* coming from inside the house.
One of my biggest shocks when I came out as transmasc was that not all binary trans men went through the process in the same way. In my head (and as it turned out in reality for me) was social, HRT, top surgery, legal, bottom surgery optional. In that order. Always.
First trans guy I met had top surgery first, then legal, then came out socially, and after almost a decade started on HRT. It blew my freaking mind.
Cis media implants these simplified and unrealistic ideas of what the "right way to trans" is and it's all BS. Trans people need to get out and touch grass, and by that I mean meet actual other trans people in the real world and have real discussions. Piggytawain sounds like someone who doesn't know many/any other trans people in real life.
I don't know how to explain to people that throwing a part of your community under the bus will only make it easier for transphobes to throw _you_ under it.
Thank you for talking about this, Kat-as someone who's nonbinary I really appreciate it.
Yup, divide and conquer
A lot of people are desperate for an explanation for transphobia that makes conservatives sound reasonable and like they could be reasoned out of their position if we just do X. It's much easier to think transphobes are just mislead or the trans community is doing something to make them upset. The don't want to accept the harsh reality that conservatives and other transphobes really are just fucking stupid and hate trans people for no real reason at all.
They throw trans ppl under the bus all the time saying gender is a social construct. Gender roles are a social construct with some being related to sex characteristics.
Constantly and pettyly fighting to make people call you whatever you want all while appropriating the trans lablel is throwing the trans movment under the bus.
@@Dellennickolis95 Why are you commenting on a vid you obviously did not watch?
The concept of a nonbinary person having a “cis body” is so gross and as a nonbinary person who cannot and won’t get hrt I’m beyond dysphoric from that statement alone. This is just blaming an innocent party for all of our oppression
It’s also just throwing binary trans people who haven’t transitioned under the bus. At the end of the day the argument seems to boil down to “pass or dont be publicly trans” which is a really interesting take for supposed trans advocates to hold
@@emmetharrigan5234 Blair white as well has contributed a lot to the “perfect trans person” ideal. if you’re genderqueer you have to have a specific identity otherwise you’re “faking it” or “ too woke” it really pisses me off, I’m tired of seeing Blair white videos on my recommended constantly and I really wish TH-cam would ban harmful content like that from the platform because as we know this misinformation only increases the violence and hatred toward us, I know it wouldn’t magically erase transphobia but if people like Blair white were banned from TH-cam maybe it would help a little bit.
@@emmetharrigan5234 _At the end of the day the argument seems to boil down to “pass or dont be publicly trans”_
How does it boil down to that? Binary trans people who don't pass would still be considered trans, by transmedicalist logic.
@@harrietpotter649 No they wouldn't.
And there's been people who make it obvious as such.
If you are trans and can't/haven't yet medically transitioned, there's transmedicalist who will not see you as trans simply for that fact.
They see being trans as a diagnosis that surgery, both top and bottom, as well as hormones is the "cure" for.
It sounds like you want to access HRT but are unable to. I hope that you can one day, or that your dysphoria and situation will become more manageable and less burdensome. 💖
As a black cis gay man I disagree with the idea of anyone being “the voice of the community”. I think it comes from colonizer ideals of the “model minority” and it leads to toxic debates over who’s right, when in reality, after a point there is no right or wrong. Once we’ve all agreed that such and so identity has the right to happiness and basic opportunities, then the way that we choose to live our lives is down to the individual. Rev. Al Sharpton doesn’t speak for me, Pete Butigeg doesn’t speak for me, and anyone who chooses other peoples voices to represent their own should question why they’re so scared to speak up.
exactly. to me it sounded like "hey nb people, we are more palatable to cis people so let us be the voice of the community"
Also, the discussion of supporting and uplifting voices is soooo different that saying certain people should mouthpiece for an entire community. That’s not showing solidarity, that’s forcing employment.
Yeah. Any attempt to invalidate or suppress individual expression and freedom is a direct attack on all of our rights. Everyone has rights or no one has rights. That’s how it works.
(r)amen ... I'm a White masc NB like she was talking about.... Yup, I am a part of this community from my "cis" body....
I KNOW I gotta let LOTS of other people in the community.have THEIR say, cause I am DRIPPING with privilege....
However my "privilege" is part of what makes me fight so hard.... I remember when Bi kids like me were excluded from the L+gs.... That's why I WONT let it happen to the Ts.....
But we NEED no "voice of the community"..... We have OUR OWN VOICES....
Additionally, i think "let xyz be 'the voice of this community'" is another weird silencing/divide and conquer tactic. When were nbs "not letting binary trans people be the voice"? Wtf even is "the voice of this community"? It sounds like you're just mad nbs exist and are visible. Like you want us to sit silently unless we're cheering for exactly what you say instead of being a part of the community. I'm not against binary trans people at all. Binary trans people are a huge part of how i learned about my gnc. I have binary trans friends who i fight for and support. But I'm allowed to be different from them, and have my own perspectives and support them all at the same time.
This feels like a very "online" discussion. In my limited real life trans community there seems to be no differentiation between binary and non-binary. I have friends in both groups (I'm a mostly binary trans guy myself) and there doesn't feel like any ideological division. We are all trans and that's what matters, not how we each very individually and personally define that.
for real like was she mad that "them magazine" focuses on a lot of nonbinary people? like are we serious here? lol
You’ve made a freakshow out of the community thats why you wonder wtf is even the voice. We are voiceless thanks to you. Some are speechless.
@@southamericunt6354 I don’t know how to explain to you that we’re ALL a freakshow to the eyes of transphobes. The only reason why society may be more tolerable towards binary trans people than nb folks is bc (generally) most of them who end up transitioning look & identify like the stereotypical woman or man - aka they conform to gender roles and don’t deviate too much from “the norm”, while nb people tend to look more fluid in identity & presentation - (this is obviously a generalization, everyone is different) - and people get mad when they refuse to be put in a box that doesn’t fit them.
If someone takes a look at some nb people just existing and decides to harrass us & the whole community, they were just looking for an excuse to shit on us. I can’t & won’t suppress myself to make some transphobes more comfortable. If they have a problem with that, then that’s their responsibility to take, not mine. We deserve to feel however we want, without having the pressure (that we didn’t even ask for) of “looking normal for the sake of the community” crushing our backs.
@@southamericunt6354 Also,
“We are voiceless thanks to you. Some are speechless.”
And who, may I ask, is the one who took away your voice? Was it enbies just living their life, or transphobes who think that a trans woman is just a man in a dress?
I have two friends who came out as NB once the community got more acknowledgment in our culture. They didn’t change when they came out, they were already living as NB people. But this newish language gave them a way to really communicate clearly that binary gender does not define them. I think that is great.
as a non-binary trans person WITH dysphoria, who is medically transitioning, that post honestly makes me soooo upset lol. i don’t have any proper comments yet cause i haven’t finished the video but i may edit the comment to give some thoughts. right off the bat though it’s so frustrating to see my fellow trans people act like somehow not putting yourself in binary boxes makes you privileged over binary trans people (OR that it makes you More Oppressed than binary trans ppl… which i’ve also seen people say. it’s all silly to me.)
i know it's a right wing buzzword but sometimes the type of oppression olympics really does annoy me. because it simply does not matter. some trans (binary and nonbinary) people pass as cis, some don't, some have access to health care, some don't, some have supportive families, some don't, some have workplace discrimination/lose their jobs, some don't, some have other things against them like disabilities or racial discrimination, some don't.
whether someone's binary or nonbinary trans really is only one of a zillion factors that constitute how much oppression someone faces and in most cases a transphobe will not care which specific label someone has before discriminating.
and most of all, if people argue over who has it the worst instead of fighting to make it better for everyone, nothing ever changes.
Exactly. I think people need to recognize that gendered privledge does not apply to trans people the way it does to cis people. Broad statements like "binary people have privilege over nonbinary people" and "trans men have privilege over trans women" are so fraught and complicated that they read as meaningless to me. Like, yeah... Sometimes? But also sometimes not.
I would love it if people would talk way more about the way that race, class, and orientation affect trans people rather than creating intra-community gender wars.
it’s fair to recognize where there are differences in people’s experiences and privilege, but to flatten it down to a simple hierarchy of who has it worse is never helpful
@Angie self-explanatory dude
@Angie Some Afab NB’s prefer presenting masc (especially if they have dysphoria) so they get surgery to have a more masc body while still being NB (and vise versa)
Hunter Schafer has a lot of desirability privileges and I'm not surprised, she liked the post. Blair White probably thinks this too.
NB: this is the exact discourse, I saw Conservative gay cis White men throwing at trans people, blaming their visibility for the anti-LGBTQIA persecution happening now. (Some White Leftists agree with that too).
As a former Ev. Christian, I'm here to tell you, none of this is true. Conservatives hate e.ve.ry.bo.dy in the LGBTQIA+ community and they are coming for all of us (all our rights are on the ballot!).
They don’t understand they’re the ones getting eaten next. You’re only as acceptable as you are helpful taking down the current conservative target. If you don’t conform, eventually you’re it.
They’re only deluding themselves if they think their desirability is gonna save them from the conservative hate mob. All they’re doing is sacrificing our own community.
@Li F a more common term is pretty privilege lol.
Most trans medicalists are pretty, desirable white women. As long as they can be seen as desirable to (white) cis men, they (think) they have social leverage.
@Li F What mainstream culture considers desirable in a woman, what is represented as desirable feminity in media for children and adult. She looks like Elsa from Frozen: White, young, thin, abled, with big blue (?) eyes, etc.
Since White supremacy informs how desirable we are to mainstream culture's eyes, for women: White > Black. Young > old. Thin/fit > fat. Abled > disabled and so on.
@@Flatcetera I used desirable bec. pretty is a little more subjective. To an extend, who I find pretty, isnt who my neighbour finds pretty.
For example, we all have different celebritycrushes. But most celebrities have desirable traits, that's why they are celebrities. And that dont change, even if some of us dont find them personally attractive.
Desirable traits are the ones society looks for to uplift and praise. Our ability to perform/to embody them, will get us tangible privileges. Eg. get casted in a show for Hunter Schafer.
@Li F probably referring to the fact that Hunter was able to start to medically transition at a young age, meaning that she’s considered more “passing” than people who went through puberty. Meaning they have no difficulty of being perceived by cis people as the gender she identifies as. The majority of the transgender community is not able to medically transition at such an early age for various reasons.
What this is called is RESPECTABILITY POLITICS. It’s all rooted in anti-blackness (which makes the statement about listening to back trans women so insidious). Respectability politics always ends with violence toward the poor, and usually toward black poor people. Being a black trans person hearing this is rhetoric from notable figures is absurd.
Another thing about the overwhelming whiteness of transmedicalists: they frequently disrespect those of us who aren't cis because of cultural conceptions of gender. I'm mixed (Black, white, and Indigenous) and being Indigenous and Black heavily influenced my conception of my gender. I'm neither binary nor nonbinary because I identify in my indigenous family's cultural conception of gender. And transmedicalists have been absolutely disgusting to me about this. It is frustrating, especially when they try to use us, especially those of us who are Black, to justify their bigotry. They do the same with Indigenous people by abusing that third genders do not necessarily mean being transgender (and you shouldn't assume they do) by saying it's racist to say any third gender Indigenous folks are trans, even those that explicitly ID as trans.
Just frustrating.
well-said!! (latinx/native genderfluid person here)
One of the big things for me is that non-binary people who want access to medical transition often have to pretend to be more binary than they actually are in order to get care. I'm lucky enough to have a care team who respects my non-binary identity, but this isn't the case for a lot of non-binary people. Also this poster acting as if transmedicalists aren't horribly racist to trans people of color or horribly transmisogynist to a lot of trans women is a fucking trip.
The whole binary trans vs non-binary thing is not a privilege-oppression dynamic. Many of the issues we face are the same regardless, but the "non-binary experience" is also not a monolith. Some non-binary people have experiences closer to those of cis people (which is okay! doesn't make you any less non-binary) and some non-binary people have experiences closer to those of binary trans people. I'm non-binary and medically transitioning. I know some binary trans people who don't want to medically transition. The trans experience (or even the experience of anyone who ever questions their gender) is not the same for everyone. It's affected by sexuality, mental and physical health, disability, race, and so much more. We can't prescribe the same treatments for every trans/nb person because we are not all the same. Saying "non-binary people don't medically transition is the reason it's getting harder for binary trans people to transition" is not only flawed logic for the reasons discussed in the video but is also just... blatantly false. idk I have a lot of Thoughts on this obviously but this comment is already long enough. Thanks for the video Kat
^This right here. People marginalized for other reasons in addition to gender identity often don't fit their boxes to begin with, and even when we do, our most "ideal" womanhood or manhood in their system is either exploitable and disposable or viewed as a threat to them. Who wants any of that? They do indeed hate all of us.
100% agree. I hadn't thought of the false privilege-oppression dynamic between B trans people and NB trans people before but you're so right. I think it's common of online discourse to place groups with different experiences against each other on this privilege/oppression binary (because that is true of a lot of groups). But because the experiences of trans people (both binary and non-binary) are so diverse and fall all along the spectrum of oppression and privilege, it just doesn't make any sense to argue that one group is inherently privileged above the other. Can we just accept that different trans people have different needs and they're all worthy of being cared for and having access to healthcare? like--
I was going to bring up the paradox of having to act binary to get treatment. I am still very feminine presenting, and I know I’m going to have a very hard time trying to get approved for top surgery, and it’s very possible I’ll just have to pay out of pocket.
@@paleylewis7440 i’m in the same boat although i don’t think i’ll ever pursue top surgery :/
Yeah lol i’m in eastern europe so our trans healthcare wasn’t even covered to begin with and i had to pretend to be binary to get even private doctors to listen to me
I'm glad you mentioned the point about "listen to black trans women" because it felt so uncomfortable but I couldn't put my finger on why. It feels like "listen to people of color" has just become a slogan, rather than an actual instruction.
No but actually. Even if black trans people did spoke out against this, their voices would still be silenced by white trans folk who only want to hear black people who agree with them.
You feel that way because now they’re using it against you. It has always been manipulative. You can’t shame people into thinking certain way, it will not be authentic. I see she’s black and binary trans and I still think non-binary people are hurting the binary trans community. So?
as an non-binary person I'm just sick of this shit. I used to be transmedicalist when I was trying to figure out my identity and that community is toxic as all hell. Also if i hear "like Jules from euphoria???" One more time when someone knows my name i might just snap
Jules is a lovely name and euphoria doesn’t deserve the credit
@@Flatcetera this
@@Flatcetera was gonna say this 😭
It’s so strange to me, as an NB that doesn’t constantly feel dysphoria, that anyone could decide that it’s the fault of another marginalized person that bigots act the way they do.
Also, that line about “black trans women” was absolutely them trying to give their argument credit. That if you disagree with them, you don’t care about black trans women. That person is literally using black trans women as a shield.
This is the same thing TERFs do when they make their arguments agains trans people in general. Usually by hiding behind cis lesbians (who don’t deserve to be used like that, holy fuck) and more often than not, black cis lesbians. It’s fucked. It’s really the exact same method.
As an extraordinarily dysphoric nonbinary person, I hate the narrative that we don't transition, don't have dysphoria, and are basically just cis people.
Like.. no. I've been fighting for years to get medical care. But guess what living in poverty and being uninsured and not having familial support does? It means I can't transition! It doesn't matter what I want or what would improve my health when the barriers are so high.
So to put that blame on me, that because "nonbinary people don't believe in medical transition" even though that's what I've been fighting to get for a decade? That rhetoric pisses me off because of that. Because it's the complete opposite of my experience as a nonbinary person.
As a black trans person I’ve never seen a black transmedicalist. In fact, oftentimes I see black trans people who many would say “are cis assuming” but identify as nonbinary because of how blackness in of itself deviates from a primarily white populations view on gender. There are several black trans feminine nonbinary people who fit the description of a “not real trans person” but still face the discrimination a traditional black trans woman would.
This is a great point! I never thought of this perspective before, but I absolutely agree.
The overwhelming majority of enbies look cisassuming anyways? Its not like they look anything other than a teenage e-girl
I have seen one black transmedicalist, who is as stupid as you'd imagine
As an afab nb, i felt incredibly alienated by the 'theyfab' terminology being thrown around rn, because while I get that its supposed to be a term used for terfs, it's been turning into a generalization for all afab ppl who use they/them pronouns and it gave me anxiety about my validity in trans spaces.
I'm non-binary and I experience gender dysphoria so much. But it is not something I can viably see myself getting healthcare for. So in the end I'm stuck with a body that these kinda ppl would call a 'cis body', yuck.
I also despise the usage of 'black trans women' in these statements. That is not empowering and only shows that you care about black trans women in metaphorical contexts and are willing to use them as a shield for ignorant behavior.
Has anybody ever actually run into a TERF who actually uses they/them pronouns? I'm sure there's one out there somewhere, but the idea that this was ever anything but going after NB people ever sits wrong with me.
I feel you so much, I seriously hate these alienating terms :/
Also the whole "its a term used for TERFS" is literally a lie.
Its a term from Reddit and 4chan specifically to refer to non-binary people in a derogatory way (b/c the meme about non-binary people is "they are just Pick Me girls"). Its literally just a transphobic slur used against non-binary people and the fact that trans women are using it to "insult TERFS" is just straight up transphobia and they need to grow up.
yeah seriously! i'm also afab nb, and i experience dysphoria but i doubt i'll ever be able to do anything about it. the "cis bodies" line made me incredibly uncomfortable. i just wish people would stop using enbys as a scapegoat when the problem is transphobia, not us
She thinks that statement is so brave and revolutionary as if it wasn’t exactly what ppl like Blaire White believe
frrrr
Can someone please explain to me how you can be trans (literally any type binary or not) without having gender dysphoria? Like if you are perfectly fine with your gender, how are you trans? I've seen so many conversations on this, but no one ever identifies what makes a trans person trans. What does it mean to be trans. If you don't experience dysphoria why do you feel you are trans? If you don't feel like your assigned gender, is that not gender dysphoria? I am so confused and tried to research but cannot get a clear answer.
Anytime someone says "you don't need dysphoria to be trans" that never said explain what you do need in order to be trans. If I go out and start identifying as a boy, I still wouldn't be trans because at my heart I am still a girl, if that makes sense. Like I understand some trans people are very okay with the body they are born with, but if you don't have an issue with your gender..... I truly don't understand.
@@blueismylove3128 okay first off the reason why there isn’t really a clear answer is cuz there’s no solid evidence of how Gender dysphoria really is for every trans experience because everyone’s experience is different, like a spectrum. Like some may have gender dysphoria that causes them agony and suffering that they wanna get hrt and surgery right away whereas a person who also has gender dysphoria can feel anxiety and uncomfortably but can still somewhat cope or lived with it. Also there’s two gender dysphoria, it’s the body of the person, and can be also social dysphoria. There’s also trans that don’t have gender dysphoria but do feel gender euphoria so it really depends on the person gender identity that makes them trans. Gatekeeping trans doesn’t really help anyone and only causes harm to the community.
@@blueismylove3128 so the point is not to define criteria required to be trans. Because folk’s experiences can be so varied.
But, when folks say dysphoria isn’t necessary often what is being gestured to is that some people don’t necessarily experience dysphoria with their body, but when they experiment with their gender or transition they can experience gender euphoria.
@@blueismylove3128 Hell yeah finally a comment I agree with! I used to believe you didn't need dysphoria to be trans and used to dress extremely feminine for the validation of trans femboys online and it brought me nothing but pain and misgendering. Turns out the online community was only telling me I was feminine for being nostalgic about girl stuff because they were just as sad and easily influenced as I was. It taught me nothing about how to be a man in the world, it only pushed down my social exploration because I was afraid to interact with anyone who might not be on board with un-studied "genders" past trans that were little more than poetry. Now at the ripe old age of 24 I am finally dressing like a normal guy after this horrible 10 years of feeling like I had to feminize myself to be cool to other teenagers and I LOVE IT! I have never had women look at me so much, they genuinely hold their gaze even though they don't know it's a wig since I lost my hairline to testosterone, and I can actually make conversation with other men that's not about fashion, emotions, or mental illness. I am giving into who I really am and it feels great. Every trans femboy I knew has gone back on this too, and they are all now in happy relationships now that they've committed to who they are full-time instead of showing their figure for likes on the internet. I wanted to be this since 2007 and after many social media-induced bumps in the road I am happy. The people around me would hate if I spoke out about this but it's the truth. If I could just tell one transguy to spend a year living as a man, which is somehow unpopular to suggest these days, I could save a life, or just some years of misery. And no, I don't need any of the surgeries the far left is trying to push either. I just need testosterone, I'd rather keep my ability to piss thank you very much. Thank you for speaking out.
As a nonbinary person who's been on hormones for over 8 years now, the idea that nonbinary people are in "cis bodies" is just absurd to me. The only way someone could mistake me for cis is if they thought I was the other binary gender from what I was assigned.
“This group of transgender people have cisgendered bodies” is the funniest argument i can think of good job transmeds
That post reminds me of the the unfortunate treatment many trans people and drag queens were subjected to during the early gay rights marches. They were told "you make us look bad" and were booed, harassed, and kicked out of marches despite doing a TON of work to help move lgbtqia+ rights forward. Who is to blame for all of these heinous policies? The law makers. Period.
That is f'd up considering the person who initiated the stonewall riots was a drag king and the ones who started the subsequent movements were trans people, like bffr, you owe this to them.
I hate this idea that nbys don't have dysphoria. I myself am a nby transmasc person and despite dressing very femme I have a lot of body dysphoria. Honestly most of my irl friends who are nby are on hrt or have had gender affirming surgeries. Not to mention black nby people exist? One of my best friends is a black nby person. The assumption that nby people = white and non-dysphoric is incredibly harmful bc it erases the experiences of those who don't fall into the category.
Yeah I rolled my eyes at the “listen to black trans women” bullshit because obviously I do IF they also support me and my nonbinary identity like huh?!
@@quirkyblackenby Yeah...
It felt very fake woke.
"Hey listen to black people BUT only the ones I agree with."
How very progressive of them 🙄.
@@quirkyblackenby exactly! Its also so funny bc all the black trans women I've met irl are super supportive of nby identities. The fact that this person (who I think is non-black) is using black trans women as an accessory for their nbyphobia and exorsexism is really gross.
This.
Yeah and identying as non binary isn't going to help with that dysphoria.
It's kind of hilarious to think that conservatives would care about the moral or social dimensions of transitioning if it remained along the lines of transmedicalism.
fr
Why is it so hard for people to understand that something can be medically necessary for SOME people but not ALL? Transition looks different for everyone; this has always been true.
This is incredibly heartbreaking. As someone who has identified as genderqueer since my early teenage years and has stood side by side binary trans folk in the (sometimes literal) fight against transphobes, constantly talks to and tries to educate my boomer coworkers and family about what a serious matter this is, and how much it is especially dangerous for binary trans folk who don't have cis passing privilege .. this really fucking hurts. I'm 5 minutes in, I can't watch the rest, but thank you for making this video.
People who tell binary trans folks that their gender identity isn't valid because of their sex at birth are THE SAME people who tell ME my identity isn't valid because of the body I was born in too. Hate and violence against binary transwomen and transmen is violence and hate against me. As an agender person, I've always taken that shit personal and I feel deeply betrayed by this bullshit. I hope to see the whole of our community come together soon and dispel this dumbass ideology that we should point fingers at each other for something that's oppressing us ALL.
Not gonna leave a long comment because I don't wanna take focus. But you have a lot of binary trans people fighting tooth and nail for you.
@@noissues5439 Thank you for this reply, it wasn’t for me but I needed to see this.
@@aves1099 of course
as someone who would be considered “ confusing and weird” bc I am a non-binary femme who occasionally leans towards masculinity but not too often otherwise I don’t feel femme enough, I’m afab and I do get dysphoria if someone calls me a woman or assumes I’m cis, however I don’t think that makes me better than anyone. I’m tired of the stereotype that we’re all androgynous and I’m sick of being seen as “ not trans enough” it’s not my fault that we’re not as accepted or understood, transphobes will still be transphobic no matter what.
disappointed to hear hunter schafer has those opinions. though i certainly take a lot of issue with a lot of things in euphoria i liked some things about jules, like how in the second season there was some sort of conversation about how she binded or something and i liked that because it felt like a sweet little reminder that just because we're trans doesn't mean we need to be like 100% gender conforming and giving into cis standards. really didn't expect this one
i thought with her character not wanting to fit into the patriarchal parts of femininity and stopping HRT was a parallel to how she felt irl, especially considering she wrote that episode about jules (the special episode of her therapy session)
@@cocteautwin oh yeah i didn't see that episode but like yeah it's still like. really disappointing
Smh talk about attacking the wrong group. Lawmakers are the issue here.
As a nonbinary person who can't transition currently, getting my body called cis pisses me off. I get constantly misgendered by people who know I'm trans because they perceive me as my AGAB and acting like I've chosen /this/ and am ok with it is something that hurts
Blaming non-binary people for transphobia, especially transphobic legislation, takes quite some mental gymnastics 🤦
I just read an article blaming feminism for the over turn of Roe V. Wade. A lot of internalized toxic stuff in our collective but real wokeness is knowing it’s always the patriarchy.
lol yeah imagine ron desantis listening to the voices of non-binary people or even acknowledging their existence
Transmedicalists have bought into respectability politics. They think if trans people can pass as cis we can assimilate which means transphobes will eventually accept us.
its true tho, the way non binary people are the image of trans people because they're the loudest and they can't just shut the fuck up
A few years ago, I would have found this post alarming. When I considered whether I should come out about being non-binary, my primary concern was how it would affect other trans people.
Now, I just find this argument absurd. I exist and I have a right to partake in conversations that pertain to me. Black enby voices, like other black trans voices, are woefully underrepresented, so I spoke up. Not to talk over other trans voices, but to make sure people like me don't feel so alone. We're in this together.
I don't understand the jump from 'you don't need dysphoria to be trans' to 'you can't treat dysphoria if you have it'
Please refer me to where I can educate myself on the subject if I'm mistaken (I google it a lot, I would appreciate some reputable sources to read/listen/watch and influence my google results in the future)
how is the discourse around not requiring ppl to *have* dysphoria in order to be validated in their gender identity harmful to getting those treatments?
the way I always understood the discourse around not considering transgender*ness* to be a medical condition is about the identity in itself.
I never understood it as negating the mental health symptoms that come from being opressed for that identity. Or the other conditions one might develop for being trans.
In that sense. What I always understood about the discourse is: You identity is not medical condition, the dysphoria is. So let us treat the dysphoria, wo having an opening to bigoted people to ever want to "treat" your identity.
Am I missing something here?
THIS
I know this is such a generic answer but like can people stop being so gate keepy when it comes to gender? I am technically what people would classify as a binary trans man and I used to struggle with this as well, but I was still uncomfortable with myself, so I was of course uncomfortable with anything or anyone who challenged my perception of gender.
I don't know if that is where her thoughts are coming from, but I know that it is a strong contender for why someone would feel this way as a trans person.
It's just that "one-down" bully mindset. Low status man? Attack women to make yourself feel better. Cis gay man? Belittle the trans people. Binary trans person? Belittled the enbies.
@Angie Because it isn't a fact. Non binary people often do indeed pursue medical transition and do often live with dysphoria.
@Angie This reminds me of the Native struggle. A lot of decolonization effort is thought to be only for Indigenous folk, but anyone who studies race knows that in America, a lot of the work actually goes on in the Black community. Decolonization is for everyone really because white people are colonized as well.
Similarly the trans struggle isn't isolated to transsexuals, because the struggle isn't to cis-ify ourselves (just like how decolonization isn't about making us more like white society). It's about deconstructing cisnormativity. If you don't want to be a part of that struggle, that's 100% understandable, most trans people are just trying to get by. But don't get in the way of political movements bc you are worried it'll bring your acceptance down.
Trust me it's worse for NB people in a lot of ways rn that you haven't thought of. Equality isn't a threat, it only seems like it BECAUSE you view enbies as 'other'. Once you realize binary trans people, non binary trans people, and even cis people who are oppressed by gender roles *are* the community and not just a "part of", you'll be free from constant need of cis acceptance internally because you're not fighting for cis eyes.
@Angie transgender literally just means someone who identifies differently from the sex they were assigned at birth. nonbinary people do this, they do not identify as the gender that their sex correlates to typically. all your argument is doing is separating the trans community, transgender is an umbrella term that can mean a lot of different things, including nonbinary people.
@Angie I'm stating the fact that you have a jello brain. Just absolute strawberry flavored nonsense up there
thank you Kat for always bringing the nuance! I hppe those who like to pull out "listen black trans women" will actually listen to you and others and realize nonbinary people 1. aren't the reason for transphobic legislation 2. also have a variety of experiences with dysphoria and need for medical transition. it warms my heart as a nonbinary person with some medical transition needs but not others (I'm hoping for 1 surgery and no hormones) to hear you taking about the importance of solidarity against transphobic legislators and oppressive ideals that do not care about the details!
As a trans woman who is still fighting to get the hormones I want, this whole conversation has brought up a host of insecurities for me. I’ve been struggling for months with not feeling ‘trans enough’ because I still look like a cis man. I feel like an imposter in these spaces and seeing a take like this essentially confirms that I’m not the only way who sees myself this way.
Alsoooo, this whole transmedicalist/theyfab social media war is totally white. Most of the girls I see having these conversations are white trans women and it seems very on brand tbh for white people to segregate and divide based on superficial differences rather than build community with those who have as much to lose as you.
In the UK, our current potential next Prime Ministers both recently said 'a man is a man and a woman is a woman' (context EXPLICITLY about trans/invalidating trans people - no nuance to debate, straight up awful takes) - the reason for this is because they know their audience (conservative) see NB/trans people as 'all having blue hair and being edgy' etc etc. - politicians play on their audiences and that's what gives them power. Their power and the choices they make do not come from minority groups, it's about the biases which they know their audience have - it's them who have the power, and that's the problem.
I feel like nowadays people are using black trans women as the trump card to shut anyone up who opposes their opinion but its only lip service. It's almost like a scare tactic and it's really fucked up
I’m non binary, which for me is deeply intertwined with my interest in decolonizing my cultural heritage. This comment coming from a white woman feels icky... this European puritanical view on gender isn’t the only one that exists. Although the most pervasive, itbwasnt always this unanimous.
It really does feel icky. It really seems that she and the people in her comments think that non-binary=white.
Tbh this convo is exhausting. Why does my identity bother people? Why do I always have to feel like my identity is an imposition? I wish all the transphobes would all just pi$$ off
Telling NB folks we have “cis bodies” is a great way to misgender and trigger dysphoria in them all while denying that they have dysphoria.
To tell a NB person their body is cis is to force on them whatever the AGAB cis society decided.
I rarely ever have dysphoria as I am gender fluid, and really identify with any language and pronouns. And my view on whether my body is feminine, masculine, agendered, non-bindery, always kinda flows with how I’m feeling. But it’s taken a lot of work to get to this point.
But ngl, when I heard this post call my body “cis” my dysphoria was triggered for the first time in a loooooong time.
To misgender my body as firmly and only my AGAB and hear that insisted on by another trans person was a despicable experience. Literally gagged on the food I was eating while the post was read out.
Question from a nb here: how do you deal with misgendering? I use they/them and every time I’m misgendered it feels like I’m stabbed. It’s very detrimental to my mental health.
@@straberryshinigami15g97 I think part of it is that you just need to accept it to an extent. You're friends/family/loved ones/etc all should know how you like to be refered to, but with strangers, that's basically out of our control. You can dress and speak in ways that give people more a "hint" of how you want to be adressed in public but even then, people percieve differently.
I'm black and one thing I had to learn a long time ago, was that some people are just racist and hold bias against black people. And either I can waste time and energry trying to make sure everyone who sees me, "understands" who I am, or I can accept that other peoples prejiduces and misrepresenations are out of my hands and live my life for me. Same thing applies to being nb.
@@straberryshinigami15g97 that’s a rough one, and, besides someone literally telling me “you are AGAB and only AGAB and can only ever be AGAB” or saying “gender can’t change” there isn’t many ways to misgender me? I go all any and all pronouns, and different people tend to use different ones depending on how they see me. And I get a sense of gender euphoria hearing any of them.
I think part of the issue is that there will always be transphobes though. There have always been people who called me he ore she in annoyed obvious attempt to misgender be based on what they guessed my AGAB might be.
The best thing to do is to correct anyone you think might be making an honest slip, the same way someone who went by Miss might correct being called Mrs. or vice versa. A polite, “I go by [name]” or “I go by they them” and a kind smile can go a long way with most people.
And anyone who just obvious does not care to be respectful or is clearly attempting to misgender you on purpose, unfortunately all you can do really is decide what fights you can pick and what fights you can’t.
@@demidevilqueen yea i dont think i can do that. ive been nb for 7 years and i still feel the same way. i cant change my feelings. i wish i could
@@straberryshinigami15g97 Well if you can't change that part, unfortunately you're just gonna have to bear with it, until when/if greater society catches up with us.
Calling nonbinary bodies "cis" is so cruel - I feel really incalidated by this rhetoric as an enby. Thanks for explaining the complexities of this bs!
The conclusion that non-binary people are the issue is wild to me. How you got all the peices of the puzzle and still come up with the wrong image? 🤦🏾♀️
And leave black Trans women out of this bigotry as if black non-binary people don't exist too. Many of them in my circles still experience dysphoria because of the misgendering that occurs. Along with horrible takes like these that continues to invalidate their identity. Plus, not every trans person sees medical procedures as the end-goal, and continuing to perpetuate that is again, invalidating trans people and further adding fuel to the fire. 🙃 Just so many layers of wrong. I'm saddened Hunter agreed with this stance.
Overall, the focus needs to be on the politicians, not other oppressed groups of people. You won't get far.
I still struggle claiming being a trans person as an enby because of binary trans folks, want more than just cis and trans because of the tension from both. Like I don’t hate my body I just hate how it’s viewed by others and the expectation others set on it that I don’t align with but sadly impact me regardless.
As a binary trans woman I feel the same way but still very much id as a binary (trans) woman. I think it's difficult to be a woman (or socialized as one) and not hate the way other people (mostly MEN) view/treat your body. Either way just be yourself and don't let anyone trans or cis dictate who you are, much love 💜🏳️⚧️
Interesting, I feel the complete opposite way.
I could not care less about what labels and stereotypes society attached to my body. My social dysphoria was veeeery minimal. It was only a thing bcs it reminded me of my bio sex. My dysphoria was all physical. Even if we lived in a world where gender wasn't a thing, I'd still have felt it. I remember putting socks down my pants bcs I felt something was missing when I was like 8. At that age I had no way of knowing the differences between sexes.
Anyways, sorry for the rant.
At the end of the day, only you know what goes inside your head. other's (cis or trans) have no business telling you what to do.
If anyone believes that behaving and being quiet is how you get over looked and keep what little rights you have from being taken... have fun in Candyland.
the post just confuses me so much cause where i’m from non-binary people who seek out medical treatment often have to lie about being binary trans to get it. i just don’t see any real life scenarios where binary trans people are at a disadvantage when it comes to medical transition? some trans people not wanting to medically transition is NOT the reason trans people are losing access to medical procedures. why are we turning on ourselves? why are people trying to divide the community? this is like the gay community throwing the trans community under the bus for heterosexual approval all over again.
another great take from kat. thank you for your content! when i was earlier in transition i used to be a transmed because i felt rejected from society and i was looking for someone to take it out on. what i failed to understand at the time is that i was taking my pain out on the only people who understood it. i am thankfully out of that awful mindset. i apologised to those i hurt and i am unlearning the transphobia i tought myself. transmedicalism is a miserable, lonely, self destructive mindset. thank you for helping dismanteling it. also sorry for any english mistakes
This was a really great video. I'm a cis guy, but have several trans on non binary friends, and as a bi guy, I certainly relate to being told "You are making them think it's not as bad being gay because you can pass as straight" and then being told because I have a boyfriend "You shouldn't identify is bisexual anymore yoy should identify as gay" and it saddens me to hear the same things that were used against me and other bisexuals in the lgbt community used against another group of people.
ugh, I'm tired of this shit. The safety of a cis body? Really? Even assuming cisness, my black body has never been safe so let's start there. As a Black non binary person who is transitioning, I've never experienced the level of disrespect and medical BS I have since coming out as non binary tbh. People literally seeing my pronouns right in front of them or me asserting my correct pronouns, (literally) saying 'yeah' and then carrying on misgendering me, not being given the fertility information I need because doctors assumed I didn't want it, being terrified to transition in the way I want to because I'm still non binary and don't know how to navigate being potentially seen as a black man, especially not being one. Not saying this is the height of oppression or anything especially as I could pretend to be cis should I have to- BUT- this perspective always feels so steeped in whiteness and assumed whiteness. The medicalisation of being trans really upsets me because surely, the expansion and opening up of the gender binary, and with it, transness is part of trans liberation? Why is medical transitioning needed as part of that when it's inaccessible and expensive? Also, a lot of people don't recognise they have dysphoria because dysphoria isn't just this part/thing/name is wrong, it's also sometimes complete disconnection from your body and not feeling like it's anything to do with you. That can be explained away as a lot of different things that aren't dysphoria. Also, non binary people are NOT part of the reason lawmakers are shitting on binary trans people. They straight up don't want *any* of us to be here, there is no way to be a good or worthy trans person to these people when we threaten cishet comfort. I'm so frustrated, sorry for rambling about 10 different topics.
Such an amazing video ⭐️💕 I am a black nonbinary person and the statements about being in a “Cis Body “ in that post made me feel so awful… also it’s crazy how these trans medicalists forget about intersex ppl who are nonbinary… also I have been looking into hrt .. and experience dysphoria I live in Canada and ofc the laws are different but again trying to get gender affirming care can be difficult for so many all over
just had to add in, absolutely hysterical that she added that "this is for black trans women" then literally only reposted white trans women agreeing with her on her story and then she reposted a black non binary person saying she was wrong and was making fun of them!!!!!!!!!!!!! IM LITERALLY HYSTERICAL
I just feel like she uses black trans women as a token
ITS THE TOKENISM FOR ME GALS
I both agree and appreciate the points that you are making here. Transphobic people will cherry-pick any possible argument that they can in order to perpetuate the systems that oppress us as trans people. I also want to add to this discussion that, while trans people have to go through a rigorous and invasive process in order to qualify for hormone treatment and surgery especially in red states, cis people are provided with gender affirming treatments without undergoing this process. Cis-men and women receive estrogen and testosterone with insurance coverage. They don’t need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria in order to do so. Even if we attempt to work within the guidelines of the system and favour binary perspective over non-binary perspectives (which honestly fuck all of that, we all deserve to take up space and fight for our collective liberation) the system will favour the well-being of cis-people and will work against trans-people. We are not playing the same game and we do not have the same rules.
I’m a young non-binary person. I have never had a sense of gender to assimilate to seeing as I’m a gender and autistic and probably view and experience gender differently than most, I dress however I want to regardless of if I get misgendered. the hardest struggle I’ve gone through personally in society is people that don’t understand and don’t want to listen, educating people who don’t listen to you is almost impossible.
Didn’t Jules or one of the other characters in that sleepover scene have that one line about queerness being infinite or something like that? I’m surprised Hunter Schafer’s views were not reflective of or impacted at all by that scene
Um, actors are not the characters they play?
It's entirely possible for an actor to record a scene but personally disagree with or have zero understanding of the implications of what their character is saying.
@@tytesseract hunter has been known to have input on writing jules' character to be fair
@@echowoods7977 that doesn't necessarily mean that she personally agrees with the character though.
@@tytesseract it can still be surprising that a character she helps write says things she disagrees with now??
@@echowoods7977 not sure I entirely follow your argument.
I suppose it maybe difficult for people who don't work with actors to understand that actors do not have to personally agree with the choices, attitudes and opinions of the characters that they are involved with creating.
Binary trans man undergoing medical transition rn... I really hate how divisive and discriminatory our OWN community is.
OUR NB ALLIES ARE SO VALID ❣️💞
Express your trans identity however fluid or binary you feel 💝
This is a Yt people thing! Im a Black Transexual Woman and TBH l don't really care or have the time and associated energy to condemn ANYONE and TBH nobody listens to anything Black Trans Women say until TDOR✌🏾
it’s also frustrating cause it’s not like nonbinary people are just able to express themselves freely in public either?? we’re all in the same boat.
I'm agender and I have dysphoria and have transitioned, and I agree that OP has some valid concerns, but punching down at your siblings isn't going to stop transphobes from being transphobic. This is a classic case of those in power turning marginalized groups against each other so they're too distracted to join forces and take down the real villain. Working together is the only was to end transphobic government. As a trans non-binary person who had to pay for top surgery out of pocket, I am directly effected by this too. My hormones and hysterotomy WHERE paid for by my insurance though, even though I'm non-binary, so that's not the issue. Transphobia as a whole is the issue.
to think that enbies somehow had any influence on a bill pushed by conservatives is legitimately insane, some people should just stop and fucking think about what they just typed.
Great sum up. It doesn't matter how much you pass or whatever. I've had people be completely fine with me realize I'm trans and suddenly they're on edge and questioning my knowledge of biology.
I'm a biological laboratory scientist.
Thank you so much for this. You’re the only binary trans person I’ve seen so far who addressed the fact that us nonbinary people aren’t categorically “unmedicalized” and are just “GNC cis people” or have “cis bodies”. Many nonbinary people want the kinds of changes in their body associated with transition. Hell, some cis people do too! And they should get to have access to it as well. As you point out, many things such as nit being straight would’ve disqualified (and still disqualifies, outside the US) people from accessing medical transition. The first result of a TH-cam search for “nonbinary mtf transition” on TH-cam, for a long time, was a cis therapist telling us not to, and that it’s a mistake, and that we should just switch pronouns and representation instead.
Moreover, the medical care available itself is heavily binary, and contrary to what many transmeds will tell you, it’s not a result of human biology or technology. It’s fucking insurance. Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators are an option for transfem people who don’t want breasts (to varying degrees of success). Is it covered by insurance under trans healthcare? No. Hell, I didn’t want breasts but I don’t think I’ll be able to get rid of them post-HRT unless I pay out of pocket. The idea that nonbinary people are uninterested in medical transition isn’t just wrong: It’s largely responsible for our lack of access. And this is all stuff that ARE available. Who knows what more options would be available if there was more research.
It’s just so funny to see transmeds take this self-righteous tone because they’re literally controlled opposition lol. Unwittingly or not. They’re used by the right as the “reasonable ones”, while being largely responsible for pushing people into medical transition when they don’t want it, and leading to the transition regret problem that is used as a cudgel against us. Ask many of these detransitioners who they surrounded themselves with. It definitely wasn’t “you don’t need to transition to be trans” types lol.
i know im generalising here, but along the years i find that most transmedicalists main argument and rage at gnc/nb folks is that they center suffering around their transness, so the idea that 'you dont need dysphoria to be trans' challenging that somehow translates to them as 'so im suffering for nothing?' and not 'your suffering shouldnt be the reason you identify and have wants and needs for certain aspects of your life'. like i may be biased, but most non binary people dont say 'you dont need dysphoria' as a 'so no one should ever need medical procedures for their gender identity', but rather in retaliation to being perceived as needing extreme hatred, depression, and other very intimate and strict factors to validate their identity (like you mentioned, your sexuality dictating if youre allowed to be trans or not, among others) . obviously dysphoria encapsulates a lot more than just bodily modifications, but i mostly remember that being what centered the entire discourse, and it seems we'll never outlive it. it mostly makes me sad someone who recently has become a loved and cherished public trans figure would expel hatred towards people who dont mean them harm. and in the end i absolutely understand how being binary trans puts you in incredible danger, but i just find it a bad faith argument to accuse non binary people as a whole for conservative legislatures, as if the power imbalance was all thanks to them.
The "what about the kids" thing ---> ""no tolerance whatsoever " is exactly what's happening in Russia, but like on steroids. Before "LGBTQ propaganda" was illegal among underage people, now it's being forced into the foundation of law. Like, literally, one of the last amendments to the constitution states that marriage is a union of a man and a woman.
Also, on a sideline, gender dysphoria can be different. Like I don't feel the need to transition but I still feel dysphoria even if it's not exactly a bodily thing. But maybe that's not called dysphoria? I feel like it can be called that. I can feel it, but my knowledge of theory isn't large enough to explain it
Maybe social dysphoria? But yeah, you're right 100
There's different types of dysphoria.
You can feel all of them or just some and in different degrees.
I only felt mostly physical. Other's feel mostly social. It's not a size fits all thing.
yeah, that's what I meant. I said that in response to "don't need dysphoria". judging by this video, it seems that in transmedicalism implies that nb people don't feel gender dysphoria. That's where I was confused
What you could be feeling is gender incongruence, basically just the feeling that your gender doesn't match up with your biological sex and that you'd be happier if people referred to you as the gender you identify as
@@shaunsmith9752 thanks, I didn't know that was the term for it. But I have good trips with that and bad trips. When I say disphoria I mean the bad trips.
So I was looking through the comments of the post and I saw someone go "Unlike you enbies I can't easily 'take off' my transness. Stop 'cosplaying' as a trans person." then when I looked at her profile... She was white, but her username was Japanese inspired and she wears the wholeass fox eyeliner and cosplays as an anime girl 🫠
Like- Sure 'mam, me identifying as Genderfluid is "appropriating transness", but you pretending to be Asian isn't an issue. I mean, I can't get rid of my skintone or eyeshape as a Asian person but look where we fucking are 🫠
Adding a little intersectionality here- some of my mixed friends and myself (also mixed lmao) have coined this term “former white person” and basically we’ve defined this with mixed people who are no longer trying to be the model minority (especially in my group of friends that are white and Korean) - people that think they’re just white because they stand to gain from “drinking the kool-aid”. This person thinks they have something to gain from sucking toes and fence sitting. They really think they can manipulate the whole federal government… come on y’all, say it with your chest that you want rights.
Trans self hate is a helluva a drug… just hate to see it projected on enbies with this kind of lash out.
I love your take on this. I’d also like to add that I think there’s also this idea that dysphoria is this one size fits all thing. Not all people will need their dysphoria treated medically, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there OR that those with severe dysphoria don’t need treatment either.
Some people (such as myself) have chronic severe lifelong anxiety that NEEDS to be treated with medication. However, other people (such as my mom) are able to mitigate their anxiety symptoms through keeping themselves healthy and going outside. That doesn’t mean people like my mom don’t have “real” anxiety, and it doesn’t mean that people like me shouldn’t have access to medication. If there’s anything I’ve learned from the medical classes I’ve been taking, it’s that most disorders exist on a spectrum.
I think more people need to keep that in mind while discussing gender dysphoria.
In my personal experience as an gender-queer person, I’ve been able to mitigate my dysphoria through taking on “body neutrality”, and though I’d like to do certain things to transition medically, I have much bigger fish to fry before I get to that point. If I never have the resources to do it, I’ll be fine. However, that shouldn’t discount the people who genuinely need to medically transition.
It’s easy for us to try and simplify everything, but I think a lot of nuance and personalized care is necessary so that on one hand people don’t feel like they NEED to transition to be validated, but at the same time we’re not withholding care from those who genuinely do need it.
I also think it’s wild that these people conflate being non binary with not wanting/needing medical transition, almost all the non binary people I know either want or have had/are having some kind of medical transition
We are all part of the same qu//r (hate how I have to censor that word) community. Why fight each other when so many people are already against us?? Stop making enemies where there are none.
h u h it's a banned word?
@@ant3t3 because to many people the term is incredibly offensive. Not all words can be reclaimed
@@NeloBladeOfRanni It has been reclaimed by many in the LGBTQ+ community. If you personally don’t want to be labeled as so, fine, but it’s not an offensive term. That’s something TERFS have been pushing and are unfortunately succeeding in many spaces.
@@NeloBladeOfRanni It’s used in academia, by lgbt organizations, and as an identity of its own. Whether or not everyone is comfortable with it, the fact is it has been reclaimed by a significant amount of people for decades. At this point, algorithms limiting its use are doing more harm than good.
Transgender non binary person who didn't get access from my insurance to hormones because i haven't had diagnosed gender dysphoria for at least 2 years. I still had to go out of pocket. Joke's on them, because enough processing of my life made me realise I had dysphoria since childhood. I was just penalized for not being "aware" of how "sick" I was in front of a medical professional when my insurance had to decide if they'd pay for my HRT. Which is to say, as a transmasc non binary person, I made no change in how anybody at large accessed medical care, even myself, despute having the privilege of health insurance from my employer.
I hate the argument of “your makeing trans peaple looks bad “ becasue like they’ll use anything against you no matter what .
This the same kind of scapegoating I saw from fake feminists blaming roe being overturned because of trans people. What a cycle.
Disagreements in our community are luckily less frequent than the opposition. Religious folk are still completely divided and can’t agree on most issues or discuss solutions that don’t include conversion. I don’t see this hate for non-binary peoples taking root elsewhere other than people who are already skeptical and sheltered.
Really interesting discussion from outside the US. From my experience as a non-binary person I have mild dysphoria but feel more comfortable in myself not being inside the binary, so for me medical transitioning wouldn't be right, but it doesn't mean I would want other trans /non-binary people to go down the medical transition if that's what would feel authentic to them. Sadly I think a lot of people in the LGBTQIA+ community fall into the wanting to be validated as "one of the good ones", particularly early on, but then over time you realise it's more important that you're being true to what feels right to you, than what someone who probably wishes they weren't having the conversations with you deems acceptable.
The idea that nonbinary people don't want or need medical interventions is ridiculous, because plenty of nonbinary people do, so the lack of access to medical care also directly harms them and not just binary trans people in both their fights for gender affirming care. I also have several trans friends who have chosen to publicly present as binary in order to receive the services they need or to be safe at work, and only in private with friends and loved ones do they feel comfortable and safe enough to be their fullest non binary selves
Reminder: Don't idolize people in Hollywood or other high standing entertainment cooperations (like youtube, Instagram, etc.). That way, you don't get disappointed when they show their true colours.
because if there is one group of people that republicans always listen to it's deffinetely enbys right🙄
That post is just so wrong. I am non-binary and transsexual. I’m post-HRT and post-op. And because of the attitude that non-binary dysphoria isn’t real I DID have to pay out of pocket and DIY. I had to do all sorts of things to save up that money. It was hell. Wtf, it’s not even that uncommon for non-binary people to medically transition. Non-binary does not mean non-dysphoric! Just as not all trans men and women are dysphoric
I also find it funny that Hunter is in a show as a translesbian/transbisexual, as if transmedicalism isn't used to invalidate and oppress translesbians and bi/pan transwomen.
What even is a cis body? A body cannot be cis or trans, a person is. You may change your body in accordance to that person, but that is you acting upon your body, the body itself does not care, the soul does.
In my view, the comment about black trans folks at the end of the tweet also paints the pictures that binary trans = "authentic", "poc", "oppressed" and nonbinary trans = "inauthentic", "white", "upper middle class" which is just soo wrong!!! I mean, I'm an upper-middle-class white enby, but Kat, you mentioned that you once identified as a black genderqueer individual and my experience with the people I go to college with is that one of the most authentic people I know is a non-binary person of color and the person I'm having feelings for is nonbinary but comes from a less privileged economic background. This sort of argument just really ignores the true intersectionality of queerness in favor of creating a bunch of fucked up boxes!!!
Kat, as always you come in with experience, openness, and just sheer big-heartedness (that's a word, what, don't look at me), if ever I need to understand and appreciate a situation that is outside my personal experience, you are *the* person to turn to. Keep being your wonderful self, Kat Blaque, and remember to do all the self-care, because you are so precious to so many people
Did this person forget that NB people often get gender affirming surgery as well???
I'm a afab masc leaning Nb who's dysphoria is essentially on a sliding scale some days I have little dysphoria other days I want to claw at my skin to get my chest off. Due to the varying levels I can't medically transition (Plus I have some physical disorders that keep me from it) so even though I try to look more masc I am always consistently misgendered even people ik who know I'm nb and that I use they/them pronouns "mess up". Like a friend of mine keeps referring to me as she and claims it's her "phone autocorrecting" but it's happened multiple times.
it’s frustrating. how i see it is that it’s easier to punch down on the outcasts within a community of outcasts. this conversation feels so tired. i’m not a binary trans person, but I am queer. having only one queer narrative is going to be exclusionary. i value your opinion and for calling out the enby-phobia in that Instagram tangent.
This take was so needed. You are becoming the community auntie we look to, Kat.