Same! I would have voted labour this time, but Starmer’s disregard for certain people’s lives depending on what they look like, is disgusting and heartless. I can’t see a difference between Labour and the Conservatives anymore, unfortunately.
That the type of leaders UK citizens want. WHAT A SHAME FOR UK. THEY HAD AN UNBELIEVABLE OPPORTUNITY TO GET RID OF THE TWO PARTIES BY VOTING FOR GEORGE GALLAWAY & HIS PARTY BUT THEY SHPWED THE LOVE MORE OF THE SAME. SHAMEFULL
Starmer a human rights Lawyer!! Never said 1word of support for Julian Assange what a scum bag! Thank god Julian got out of prison before starmer become priminster! As i think starmer wouldn't have released him.
Starmer worked very hard to keep Juliane Assange in prison! He knows Assange had committed no crime! Thats Starmer = establishment stooge, a duplicitous liar!🤥
The usual witless soundbites from Starmer delivered in his adenoidal whine. Hypocrisy incarnate, licking the boots of the American war machine. Gawd help us all.
@@Stiffytheenlightened I rather suspect that @JohnMcChrystal was not involved in voting him in. When it comes to current Tory and 'Labour' (note the quotes) Parties it's the case, for thinking individuals, of quoting Shakespeare: 'A plague on BOTH your houses'.
When you see the state of human rights violations all over the world with no consequences. Then maybe something is seriously wrong with the qualifications needed to become one or that the "the rule of law" is only for the rich and powerful. We've seen it with the ridiculous Trump trials.
I'm not understanding Dalia's 'point' at all, this felt like a massive waste of a segment. She doesn't seem to have a solution to violent crime beyond getting rid of prisons. I too am somewhat of a prison abolitionist, but I take Michael's position that prisons should be rarely utilised but have conditions that do not just serve to punish those found to be guilty. Part of this would be improving mental health care. Dalia conflates the "improve prisons" position with "lock people up FOREVER without improving prisons at all" just so she can continue to argue against the status quo instead of what Michael was actually saying. Nobody was saying "forever" except Dalia. There are several different approaches to handling violent crime in between Dalia's position and how things currently are. She further doesn't suggest ANY alternative position at all. I'd be curious to hear how absolute prison absolution would philosophically and politically handle that portion of the population that does exist within reality - but one isn't provided by her. She just wanted to say she's right without backing anything up. Prisons inherently do not create first-time violent offenders, she insists they do.
Always love these debates on prisons and abolition with dalia and Michael. Novara should dedicate an episode to debate this issue and get people with lived experience of the prison systems (former inmates, parole officers etc) to speak
Dalia doesn’t have a clue what Prison is for. It’s a deterrent, can you imagine the stuff most people would do without the threat of prison? I’ve always liked her but she is completely clueless on this I’m afraid.
@@billmesser6016 it is not a deterrent Take a look at America, it introduced very tough sentences, prison population shot up, crime has never fallen at all It is you that is completely clueless
Dalia is such a deeply thoughtful person, so it's so interesting to see how she can't accept a reality where violently dangerous people need to be temporarily detained in places where they are treated with care and love in order to meet everyone's need for safety.
Bully For You,TheTurks Want It Back ! Wait and see how they deal with obstreperous Arabs The Region of Palestine was only part of their Empire for several centuries before The Brits Took It. Palestinian Land ??? Someone should have told The Ottomans.
Truss and her budget cost people’s pensions well done Dalia for saying this. I know that some ‘lost’ lots of money. However look at Jacqueline Smith guilty in the expenses scandal but now in the government.
On the discussion of prisons, I'd say both Michael and Dalia made valid points, though I personally lean towards Dalia's abolitionist stance but on the condition that there needs to be a holistic approach. I think Michael is right to voice concern about further harm being caused if individuals known to be harmful are released, and whilst Dalia is right that prisons can be incredibly traumatising to those placed in them which can certainly make matters worse, I don't think removing them without accompanying measures addresses that concern (though I suspect that is not actually her full position). Personally I agree with Robert Sapolsky's line on this topic, which is that due to the non-existence of free will meaning there are always reasons as to why people harm others, it follows that the best approach is to use whatever minimally necessary means (e.g. quarantining) to stop/reduce the harm they're causing in the short-term, whilst doing our best to figure out the root cause and addressing it. The closest thing to this approach that I'm aware of is the Nordic model, in particular Norway's justice system. My suggestion to those that may instinctively cringe at the idea of "prison abolition" would be to consider that most abolitionists are probably not advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater (the baby in this case being the quarantine/harm reduction aspect), but rather are suggesting an approach that would look so radically different to the prison model that it wouldn't be reasonable to use the term "prison".
so while I completely agree with your position here I do think abolishionists are playing sophistry when they say abolish prisons and replace them with humane quarantine. You're still holding a person against their will, you removed their liberty and freedom. You have definitionally imprisoned them. say with police abolishionists as well.
I prefer looking towards lowering sentencing and increasing rehabilitation. What scares me is the American privatised model of prisons….extreme sentencing driven politically by lobbyists for prison private companies that make profit out of incarceration
I appreciate how michael (and other novara hosts) sometimes take less typically left-wing positions on things like the prison situation, it makes for a more interesting discussion and less of an echo chamber.
I agree with Michael on prisons. Also, the mess that the probation service is in after it was part-privatised does not help the situation (25% understaffed nationally and 40% understaffed in London). Dalia's argument is a case of "cart before the horse". Fund community justice initiatives first and then the prison population will decline, of its own accord, if you get things right (see Sweden and the Netherlands as examples).
The prison and legal system will never be perfect nor will it necessarily hold up to any ethical scrutiny than a utilitarian one but of course locking away murderers, rapists and terrorists is something that will have always (naturally!) have mass buy-in. I felt he resorted to a bit of sophistry though in his argument with Dalia, especially the Wayne Couzens analogies.
Both conflicts stink of lies and hypocrisy! Just out of interest, how do you know that the attack on the KIEV hospital was deliberate and by the Russians? We could be speaking of the remnants of an airdefense missile, but it all remains to be alreadt proved your side. But you seem to have already decided. If so, you should treat the Gaza conflict with the same lens, especislly if you wish not to be called hypochrites and purveyors of double standards.
• The missile that hit a Polish grain silo, killing two people, turned out to have been fired by Ukraine. • The missile strike on a busy open-air market place in Kostiantynivka, which killed an estimated 15 people, and injured at least 32, turned out to have resulted from an errant Ukrainian air-defence missile. • Evidence suggests this was caused by an errant NATO supplied NASAMS air-defence missile. Daniel Davis / deep dive Levan Gudadza - opinion
The Russians, unlike the Ukrainian proxies, do not seek civilian targets. Regardless of the moral issues, they have no interest in doing so. The Ukr proxies imitate US war strategy based on mass terror.
Part of the reason prison intakes increase is because the laws in which put people there have increased. Inder conservative and most governments, new laws are implemented to force the behaviours of the people in society as well as to raise funds for their selfish ambitions. This include locking up peaceful protestors or have we forgot they have done that... arresting cannibis smokers, petty crimes among many others which in all honesty if they really wanted to tackle these things if they were seen as a problem, they would make reforms around sociey and the economy which supports families and people across the country to emplore better decisions and giving greater opportunities. There has never been a prison dilemma. There has always been a classism dilemma that utilises the rule of law to maintain control and to drain everyday people of resources to fund their lobbying and corruption
I'd really love to see more of a deep dive on prison abolition/police abolition some time, specifically focusing on practical solutions, what "abolition" would actually mean (especially with extreme violent offenders), and what the process for getting there would involve. I recently read "The End of Policing" by Alex Vitale and, while it's an interesting book, it felt like it spent most of its time talking about what's _wrong_ with policing and barely touched on what "the end of policing" could actually look like.
40:00 So what's the solution? Do nothing? Stop jailing people and wait for her idea if Utopia. Some people only know how to criticize but they don't even have any concept of a solution. She was constantly asked, but is completely empty while claiming not to be. It's also time that these people from unsafe countries look to what safer countries around the globe are doing. Not every country is doing that bad. It's like pretending you don't know the solution for obesity. When many countries already do have a solution.
If Nato had stuck to its word and not expanded towards Russia there would not be a war in Ukraine today. Imagine if a foreign power expanding on the borders of the US.
Why should countries not be allowed to decide if they want to join NATO? Nobody is making them join. They are choosing to. If Russian doesn't like NATO expansion then tough. It doesn't get to invade them. The same would apply to the US.
NATO isn't annexing territories. Countries are joining voluntarily. Why are you trying to make excuses for Russia invading its neighbour? I bet, I super duper bet, that if the US had invaded Iraq, you'd be against it and not be making excuses of "Saddam should've been neutral and allied with the US"...
@@seanfitzpatrick7441 It's a common Marxist/Russian simp line, they'll bash on western imperialism while letting Russian imperialism off the hook, like wtf?
@@dallysinghson5569 Annexing land and establishing colonies through full scale military conflict isn't imperialist? So I suppose japan wasn't an empire either?
I'm annoyed that James Timson -an unelected civilian- was made a minister by Starmer, but what I find puzzling is how James Simson was effectively promoted for doing the same job under the Conservatives since 2018. He seems to have been the problem and the solution at the same time. Starmer promoting people (also see Valance, Jacqui Smith) for doing a good job whilst being employed by a Tory Government isn't 'change' -they're the same people doing the same job. Which begs the question 'did we even needed a change of Government?' I'd add Reeves to that list, too, given that her time at the Bank of England won't do down in history as a great period of British banking.
It seems that once again Nato has jumped to the conclusion that Russia was at fault. Now that the video evidence has been examined it is now more likely that this was missile supplied by Norway and was fired by Ukraine in defence. The Russian fired 5 missiles and there is video evidence of this. The Russian missiles have a very high payload and had one of these had hit, the colour of the blast would be different and the whole area would have been flattened. Russia has already been accused three time of war crimes and each has been proved to be Ukrainian missiles fired in defence.
The real issue leading to our prisons being overpopulated is that drug policy needs serious reform and needs to be looked at in a more modern way. Decriminalisation of soft drugs leading to legalisation. The income from tax revenues would also stimulate our economy.
I tend to take the Dalia position on the prison debate. The root causes of criminality need to be addressed. Countries like UK and NZ need to move away from this short-sighted thinking of locking them up and throwing away the key. Enlightened thinking on how we address the roots causes of criminality is far more socially progressive than creating better criminals.
I am glad that labour is the new government. I am sad at our acquiescence to The slaughter in Gaza. I was deliriously happy with the England football result tonight. I turned onto BBC NewsAnd so what was happening to the children in Gaza. It took all my joy away at a single stroke
Michael, I am such a grateful fan of your focus on Gaza and clarity on UK politic. I was surprised and disappointed to hear the discussion on prisons. Particularly the US, one of the largest incarceration in the world. My disappointment was the absence of racism and privatization as enormous factors. To hear a skimming over and assertion that the areas with most incarceration may have the most criminals is so ill informed. A character or description I have never imagined I’d used to describe your journalism. I understand the real concern of having dangerous people on the streets but, even that needs real examination beyond just criminally dangerous individuals. Unfortunately many people end up being grouped with dangerous criminals based on racism and fear vs. the actual facts.
There is right and wrong, often it is absolutely black and white. We need a leader with the moral superiority to condemn what we all know are outrages. When he chooses to condemn one thing and not the other he literally becomes a complete joke. Labour are not what they were. In most respects they are indistinguishable from the Conservative Party.
Prison discussion interesting. Cerainly reform is necessary. An encouraging thought is that despite how it may seem, the execution of justice towards society's wrong doers has improved over the centuries. There are no longer public executions. Women are no longer burnt alive as being witches.
I think one of the problems here is that you're thinking about prison like it's one single thing. Prison in the United States, for instance, is an extremely different prospect to prison in Norway. Also, Michael, people are fundamentally good (the entire premise on which left wing politics is based, surely, its starting point, is that the vast majority of human beings are born good). Read Rutger Bregman's book Humankind, if you haven't already. Finally (in a related thought), in America, so-called Red States have the death penalty not because they have a higher murder rate, but in fact the opposite in my opinion. If you live in a society that legitimises the premeditated taking of human life as a way to solve your problems, you're going to reap what you sow. The criminally minded draw their own conclusions and never feel that bad about themselves because that’s all the people in power do. Killing people legitimises killing people. This has broader implications for all penal systems. The crueller you make it, the more you simply legitimise cruelty.
It's the pretence of balance, I think. People in the political class see people from both parties going from politics to media and believe that is balanced, yet it becomes an incestuous cycle of neoliberals mixing between the same circles with the same stale ideas.
Please can you ask Dalia what she proposes happens to serial killers and/or rapists, ie people with a clear pattern of repeated violent crimes? Suggesting that we impose absolutely no limits on the freedom of movement of such people seems to me to be an incredibly extreme position - and if her return is suggesting secure psychiatric institutions which these individuals are not able to leave - for me, this really is equivalent for what I'd like prisons to look like. If she returns that she'd like to see these individuals (think Ted Bundy, Peter Sutcliffe, Harold Shipman, Jeffery Dahmer etc) retain freedom of movement - I really can't see how this would reduce harms in society.
I think Dalia made some great points at the end about the sheer destruction Kwarteng and Truss caused, how they refused to take accountability and then seeing him on BBC breakfast. She’s right, politics is a job for life if the establishment like you enough. Michael’s comparisons with his own mistakes don’t really work because we’re talking about a huge scale of devastation under Kwarteng and Truss.
You can’t just pretend that prisons don’t have a practical purpose of protecting the public from violent people!! Yes rehabilitate and be holistic but this has to involve some kind of incarceration and punishment, these are not the aspects to prisons which are failing
Dalia is, on prisons as on so many issues, so much more on the money than Michael. I think it’s because she has the imagination to envisage living in a completely different and better world. She’s a revolutionary. Michael’s instincts are to tinker around the edges.
Officially 24 times more children have been killed in Gaza in 8 months than have been killed in Ukraine in 28 months. The real rate is no doubt much higher given the Lancet estimate while the maim and mutilation rate is even higher again.
I think that NM needs a co presenter from the north. Some of these topics are discussed around life in the South East. It is very different however in the mill towns of the North. Issues with landlords are very different in London than most other places. The thought of releasing violent prisoners back to their small communities is an absolutely outrageous idea. Unless we want to see gangs, terror, vigilantes and no go areas! I'm certainly with Michael on that one.
I wish Novara presenters wouldn't feel the need to self-consciously emphasise certain parts of the script just to make sure we know EXACTLY where we should be outraged.
This keeps switching to your merchandise rather than sticking to the reporting. If you want to be regarded as a serious news broadcaster sort it out. I gave up on it the fourth time it happened.
he's just an administrator, the assistant manager...he is not a leader...permanent fence sitter...bring back Blair and Brown..at least they would tell you one way or the other what they REALLY think
Tragic that innocent children have been killed. The difference between Ukrainian and Palestinian victims is that one government decided to attack its neighbour with predictable consequences and the the Ukrainians are victims of naked unprovoked aggression by a neighbouring country. To try to paint both conflicts with the same brush is ridiculous.
It's easy to sit on the sidelines, talking philosophically, but to not be able to answer a question such as "should Wayne Cousins be in prison?" immediately and directly is one indicator as to why certain thinkers should not be in any policy or decision-making forum
Starmer is repugnant. I will never vote labour until they get rid of him
Same! I would have voted labour this time, but Starmer’s disregard for certain people’s lives depending on what they look like, is disgusting and heartless. I can’t see a difference between Labour and the Conservatives anymore, unfortunately.
That the type of leaders UK citizens want. WHAT A SHAME FOR UK.
THEY HAD AN UNBELIEVABLE OPPORTUNITY TO GET RID OF THE TWO PARTIES BY VOTING FOR GEORGE GALLAWAY & HIS PARTY BUT THEY SHPWED THE LOVE MORE OF THE SAME.
SHAMEFULL
@@Anonymus-qp2mb Galloway is a Putin apologist
You will never vote for Labour unless it is unelectable.
A VOTE FOR LABOUR IS A VOTE FOR GENO SIDE
Starmer a human rights Lawyer!! Never said 1word of support for Julian Assange what a scum bag! Thank god Julian got out of prison before starmer become priminster! As i think starmer wouldn't have released him.
Starmer was responsible for julian Assange being in prison.
@@jake751 Thanks Jake! I'm not surprised!!!
Syatmer woulf have served Assange to the US on a silver plate and then claimed a reduction in prison overcrowding.
Starmer worked very hard to keep Juliane Assange in prison! He knows Assange had committed no crime!
Thats Starmer = establishment stooge, a duplicitous liar!🤥
He explained that the extradition was incompatible with the human rights act and helped stop it. The rest is unknown. @@jake751
The usual witless soundbites from Starmer delivered in his adenoidal whine. Hypocrisy incarnate, licking the boots of the American war machine.
Gawd help us all.
You shouldn't have voted him in.
@@Stiffytheenlightened I rather suspect that @JohnMcChrystal was not involved in voting him in. When it comes to current Tory and 'Labour' (note the quotes) Parties it's the case, for thinking individuals, of quoting Shakespeare: 'A plague on BOTH your houses'.
@@Stiffytheenlightened80% didn't
A VOTE FOR LABOUR IS A VOTE FOR GENO SIDE
GOD, NOT 'GAWD'
Biden saying the line, we are stronger than ever, cannot be more oxymoronic.
Ask him 5 Minutes later what he said an hour ago I bet he can't even remember that old fart
How would Starmer referee a children's football match between Ukraine and Palestine. At the moment with a shot gun
My prediction of Blair II being put in power to take the UK into WW3 seems to be coming true even quicker than I thought.
Starmer is a moral coward able to compartmentalise his moral decisions, or rather amoral decisions. Human rights lawyer,? Appalling.
When you see the state of human rights violations all over the world with no consequences. Then maybe something is seriously wrong with the qualifications needed to become one or that the "the rule of law" is only for the rich and powerful. We've seen it with the ridiculous Trump trials.
Remember: The stereotype that attorneys eat their young didn't come from nowhere.
What human rights. What countries human rights has he advocated for.
@@helenahanley Perhaps he feels he's not getting paid enough to do the work & doesn't have an inclination to do it _pro bono_ .
I'm not understanding Dalia's 'point' at all, this felt like a massive waste of a segment. She doesn't seem to have a solution to violent crime beyond getting rid of prisons. I too am somewhat of a prison abolitionist, but I take Michael's position that prisons should be rarely utilised but have conditions that do not just serve to punish those found to be guilty. Part of this would be improving mental health care.
Dalia conflates the "improve prisons" position with "lock people up FOREVER without improving prisons at all" just so she can continue to argue against the status quo instead of what Michael was actually saying. Nobody was saying "forever" except Dalia. There are several different approaches to handling violent crime in between Dalia's position and how things currently are. She further doesn't suggest ANY alternative position at all. I'd be curious to hear how absolute prison absolution would philosophically and politically handle that portion of the population that does exist within reality - but one isn't provided by her. She just wanted to say she's right without backing anything up. Prisons inherently do not create first-time violent offenders, she insists they do.
Stinks of hypocrisy …. joe and starmer.
A VOTE FOR LABOUR IS A VOTE FOR GENO SIDE
Always love these debates on prisons and abolition with dalia and Michael. Novara should dedicate an episode to debate this issue and get people with lived experience of the prison systems (former inmates, parole officers etc) to speak
That's a really good idea. It would be very informative to watch.
Dalia doesn’t have a clue what Prison is for. It’s a deterrent, can you imagine the stuff most people would do without the threat of prison?
I’ve always liked her but she is completely clueless on this I’m afraid.
Prisons are a rubbish deterrent.
@@billmesser6016
@billmesser6016 just out of interest, which crimes are you wishing you could commit if it weren't for the deterrent of prison?
@@billmesser6016 it is not a deterrent
Take a look at America, it introduced very tough sentences, prison population shot up, crime has never fallen at all
It is you that is completely clueless
Dalia is such a deeply thoughtful person, so it's so interesting to see how she can't accept a reality where violently dangerous people need to be temporarily detained in places where they are treated with care and love in order to meet everyone's need for safety.
I stand with Palestine 🇵🇸🇵🇸
Bully For You,TheTurks Want It Back ! Wait and see how they deal with obstreperous Arabs The Region of Palestine
was only part of their Empire for several centuries before The Brits Took It. Palestinian Land ???
Someone should have told The Ottomans.
i thought putin had already offered talks but was turned down at the behest of the usa
Usa interered and rejected diplomacy talks in feb22, ukraine didnt want war until zelensky told them so
@@guybunchofnumbers123 not true, there were no diplomacy talks in Feb 22
In Istanbul?@@RobinHarris-nf4yv
Mr Biden can you tell the world about your War of agression on women and children in Gaza?
HAMAS HAS NO INVOLVEMENT I TAKE IT ???
It’ll be Starmergeddon! 😱
Excellent!
Poundshop Blair... utterly depressing to have such a person lacking integrity in charge.
So true. Integrity is dead. If only Badenoch, Braverman, Johnson and Dowling were in charge things would be so much better.
Thanks a lot Michael Walkee !
🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸👏👏👏👏👏🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Thank you Michael. Thank you Dalia: thoughtful analysis as usual.
Kier Starmer is a true Snake
Also known as Kid Starver
What Russia aggression, what about Israel's aggression.
There is a problem,HAMAS are using hospitals as command posts and military and ordenance stores.
The Ukrainians do not appear to be.
Truss and her budget cost people’s pensions well done Dalia for saying this. I know that some ‘lost’ lots of money. However look at Jacqueline Smith guilty in the expenses scandal but now in the government.
She's vile 😫
Starmer the new/ old WARLORD😂
I don't understand the English people.
Total sycophantic lackeys of the US ,since Brexit they are no longer the European poodle
They are slaves to the USA/NATO/ Israel.
On the discussion of prisons, I'd say both Michael and Dalia made valid points, though I personally lean towards Dalia's abolitionist stance but on the condition that there needs to be a holistic approach. I think Michael is right to voice concern about further harm being caused if individuals known to be harmful are released, and whilst Dalia is right that prisons can be incredibly traumatising to those placed in them which can certainly make matters worse, I don't think removing them without accompanying measures addresses that concern (though I suspect that is not actually her full position).
Personally I agree with Robert Sapolsky's line on this topic, which is that due to the non-existence of free will meaning there are always reasons as to why people harm others, it follows that the best approach is to use whatever minimally necessary means (e.g. quarantining) to stop/reduce the harm they're causing in the short-term, whilst doing our best to figure out the root cause and addressing it. The closest thing to this approach that I'm aware of is the Nordic model, in particular Norway's justice system.
My suggestion to those that may instinctively cringe at the idea of "prison abolition" would be to consider that most abolitionists are probably not advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater (the baby in this case being the quarantine/harm reduction aspect), but rather are suggesting an approach that would look so radically different to the prison model that it wouldn't be reasonable to use the term "prison".
so while I completely agree with your position here I do think abolishionists are playing sophistry when they say abolish prisons and replace them with humane quarantine. You're still holding a person against their will, you removed their liberty and freedom. You have definitionally imprisoned them.
say with police abolishionists as well.
Underrated comment.
I prefer looking towards lowering sentencing and increasing rehabilitation.
What scares me is the American privatised model of prisons….extreme sentencing driven politically by lobbyists for prison private companies that make profit out of incarceration
I appreciate how michael (and other novara hosts) sometimes take less typically left-wing positions on things like the prison situation, it makes for a more interesting discussion and less of an echo chamber.
it is much needed, sometimes dalia and ash go a little looney identity politics on certain topics
It makes for worthwhile debate, sadly not the case with Aaron or Owen Jones
Biden could be using an audio prompter. Someone is, very likely, speaking in Biden’s ear through an earpiece.
I think he’s actually a robot
He has family in Tel Aviv.....why is this surprising to people?
I agree with Michael on prisons. Also, the mess that the probation service is in after it was part-privatised does not help the situation (25% understaffed nationally and 40% understaffed in London). Dalia's argument is a case of "cart before the horse". Fund community justice initiatives first and then the prison population will decline, of its own accord, if you get things right (see Sweden and the Netherlands as examples).
The prison and legal system will never be perfect nor will it necessarily hold up to any ethical scrutiny than a utilitarian one but of course locking away murderers, rapists and terrorists is something that will have always (naturally!) have mass buy-in. I felt he resorted to a bit of sophistry though in his argument with Dalia, especially the Wayne Couzens analogies.
@thomasmarsh6834 she gave a politicians answer to a straight a question
Both conflicts stink of lies and hypocrisy! Just out of interest, how do you know that the attack on the KIEV hospital was deliberate and by the Russians? We could be speaking of the remnants of an airdefense missile, but it all remains to be alreadt proved your side. But you seem to have already decided. If so, you should treat the Gaza conflict with the same lens, especislly if you wish not to be called hypochrites and purveyors of double standards.
• The missile that hit a Polish grain silo, killing two people, turned out to have been fired by Ukraine.
• The missile strike on a busy open-air market place in Kostiantynivka, which killed an estimated 15 people, and injured at least 32, turned out to have resulted from an errant Ukrainian air-defence missile.
• Evidence suggests this was caused by an errant NATO supplied NASAMS air-defence missile.
Daniel Davis / deep dive
Levan Gudadza - opinion
@@stuartwray6175 oh look a Putin bot
The Russians, unlike the Ukrainian proxies, do not seek civilian targets. Regardless of the moral issues, they have no interest in doing so. The Ukr proxies imitate US war strategy based on mass terror.
KEIR STARMER NO DIFFERENT HYPOCRISIE
Labour and their activists fucking repulse me.
Labour activists. There's an oxymoron for you. More like sycophants.
Part of the reason prison intakes increase is because the laws in which put people there have increased. Inder conservative and most governments, new laws are implemented to force the behaviours of the people in society as well as to raise funds for their selfish ambitions. This include locking up peaceful protestors or have we forgot they have done that... arresting cannibis smokers, petty crimes among many others which in all honesty if they really wanted to tackle these things if they were seen as a problem, they would make reforms around sociey and the economy which supports families and people across the country to emplore better decisions and giving greater opportunities. There has never been a prison dilemma. There has always been a classism dilemma that utilises the rule of law to maintain control and to drain everyday people of resources to fund their lobbying and corruption
Dana Gebrial's analysis (19:13 +) of the way that hegemonic interests frame the differential valuation of lives (beyond simple "racism") is great
I'd really love to see more of a deep dive on prison abolition/police abolition some time, specifically focusing on practical solutions, what "abolition" would actually mean (especially with extreme violent offenders), and what the process for getting there would involve. I recently read "The End of Policing" by Alex Vitale and, while it's an interesting book, it felt like it spent most of its time talking about what's _wrong_ with policing and barely touched on what "the end of policing" could actually look like.
love to see how Dalia thinks that every person is redeemable and should be welcomed back into society except for Kwasi Kwarteng lol
40:00 So what's the solution? Do nothing? Stop jailing people and wait for her idea if Utopia. Some people only know how to criticize but they don't even have any concept of a solution. She was constantly asked, but is completely empty while claiming not to be.
It's also time that these people from unsafe countries look to what safer countries around the globe are doing. Not every country is doing that bad. It's like pretending you don't know the solution for obesity. When many countries already do have a solution.
The journalist with Starmer - not a journalist ?? Why wasn’t he asked any questions ??
PR video ?? Pathetic
If Nato had stuck to its word and not expanded towards Russia there would not be a war in Ukraine today. Imagine if a foreign power expanding on the borders of the US.
Why should countries not be allowed to decide if they want to join NATO? Nobody is making them join. They are choosing to. If Russian doesn't like NATO expansion then tough. It doesn't get to invade them. The same would apply to the US.
NATO isn't annexing territories. Countries are joining voluntarily.
Why are you trying to make excuses for Russia invading its neighbour?
I bet, I super duper bet, that if the US had invaded Iraq, you'd be against it and not be making excuses of "Saddam should've been neutral and allied with the US"...
@@seanfitzpatrick7441 It's a common Marxist/Russian simp line, they'll bash on western imperialism while letting Russian imperialism off the hook, like wtf?
@@dallysinghson5569Ukraine did bomb the hospital.
@@dallysinghson5569The war in Iraq was illegal. Blair and Bush should be in chains.
The US empires proxy steams on with its escalatory and predictable nonsense with Stamer oiling the machine with new fervor. What a surprise! 😒
"Proxy" just say you like imperialism when Russia does it
@@TheCam920 It's not imperialism when Russia does it, only when the west does it, is it wrong.
@@dallysinghson5569 Annexing land and establishing colonies through full scale military conflict isn't imperialist? So I suppose japan wasn't an empire either?
I'm annoyed that James Timson -an unelected civilian- was made a minister by Starmer, but what I find puzzling is how James Simson was effectively promoted for doing the same job under the Conservatives since 2018. He seems to have been the problem and the solution at the same time.
Starmer promoting people (also see Valance, Jacqui Smith) for doing a good job whilst being employed by a Tory Government isn't 'change' -they're the same people doing the same job. Which begs the question 'did we even needed a change of Government?'
I'd add Reeves to that list, too, given that her time at the Bank of England won't do down in history as a great period of British banking.
It seems that once again Nato has jumped to the conclusion that Russia was at fault. Now that the video evidence has been examined it is now more likely that this was missile supplied by Norway and was fired by Ukraine in defence. The Russian fired 5 missiles and there is video evidence of this. The Russian missiles have a very high payload and had one of these had hit, the colour of the blast would be different and the whole area would have been flattened. Russia has already been accused three time of war crimes and each has been proved to be Ukrainian missiles fired in defence.
Thank you Michael for bringing in some kind of balance to this conversation
What evidence NATO has to accuse China of military aiding Russia? China although sympathesizes with Russia dilemma, doesn't aid it militarily.,
In American the police can arrest a crimmal 70x and release back on the street to keep threating innocent citizens.
Its crazy.
The real issue leading to our prisons being overpopulated is that drug policy needs serious reform and needs to be looked at in a more modern way. Decriminalisation of soft drugs leading to legalisation. The income from tax revenues would also stimulate our economy.
The the UK cannot put up with this crap...... Again. And again and again and again.
I tend to take the Dalia position on the prison debate. The root causes of criminality need to be addressed. Countries like UK and NZ need to move away from this short-sighted thinking of locking them up and throwing away the key. Enlightened thinking on how we address the roots causes of criminality is far more socially progressive than creating better criminals.
I am sure that will be very re assuring to many past and presant victims of violent crime. Not that they count of course, to biased !
Dr Dahlia, you've smashed it yet again. Sorry Michael, for me. Dahlia expresses a deeper understanding. So refreshing!
The whole of Gaza City has been told to evacute to create a killing zone. 😢
disappointing at him. Those so called Human Right lawyers, tend to be just "western" view of human right.
Confirmation of the reason I didn’t vote for him. Is peace in his vocabulary?
I am glad that labour is the new government. I am sad at our acquiescence to The slaughter in Gaza. I was deliriously happy with the England football result tonight. I turned onto BBC NewsAnd so what was happening to the children in Gaza. It took all my joy away at a single stroke
Super sum up Dalia!
I never listened to Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump or Biden same words no action because words cheap.
Kiev Starmer is Faust
Kyiv*
Dalia's analysis is always so good!
16:10 Swedish Social Democrats were NOT in power when Sweden opted to become NATO member.
Michael,
I am such a grateful fan of your focus on Gaza and clarity on UK politic.
I was surprised and disappointed to hear the discussion on prisons. Particularly the US, one of the largest incarceration in the world. My disappointment was the absence of racism and privatization as enormous factors. To hear a skimming over and assertion that the areas with most incarceration may have the most criminals is so ill informed. A character or description I have never imagined I’d used to describe your journalism. I understand the real concern of having dangerous people on the streets but, even that needs real examination beyond just criminally dangerous individuals. Unfortunately many people end up being grouped with dangerous criminals based on racism and fear vs. the actual facts.
Well said.
There is right and wrong, often it is absolutely black and white. We need a leader with the moral superiority to condemn what we all know are outrages. When he chooses to condemn one thing and not the other he literally becomes a complete joke. Labour are not what they were. In most respects they are indistinguishable from the Conservative Party.
It’s a matter of principle as well as respect and stamaring damner is giving two fingers to all of Britain and showing utmost disrespect .
Selective condemnation
Prison discussion interesting. Cerainly reform is necessary. An encouraging thought is that despite how it may seem, the execution of justice towards society's wrong doers has improved over the centuries. There are no longer public executions. Women are no longer burnt alive as being witches.
I think one of the problems here is that you're thinking about prison like it's one single thing. Prison in the United States, for instance, is an extremely different prospect to prison in Norway. Also, Michael, people are fundamentally good (the entire premise on which left wing politics is based, surely, its starting point, is that the vast majority of human beings are born good). Read Rutger Bregman's book Humankind, if you haven't already. Finally (in a related thought), in America, so-called Red States have the death penalty not because they have a higher murder rate, but in fact the opposite in my opinion. If you live in a society that legitimises the premeditated taking of human life as a way to solve your problems, you're going to reap what you sow. The criminally minded draw their own conclusions and never feel that bad about themselves because that’s all the people in power do. Killing people legitimises killing people. This has broader implications for all penal systems. The crueller you make it, the more you simply legitimise cruelty.
Didn’t realise Bukele was presenting tonight’s show!!!!!
Michael is very normy sometimes
A VOTE FOR LABOUR IS A VOTE FOR GENO SIDE
The election was a week ago, you can stop campaigning
It's the pretence of balance, I think. People in the political class see people from both parties going from politics to media and believe that is balanced, yet it becomes an incestuous cycle of neoliberals mixing between the same circles with the same stale ideas.
Please can you ask Dalia what she proposes happens to serial killers and/or rapists, ie people with a clear pattern of repeated violent crimes? Suggesting that we impose absolutely no limits on the freedom of movement of such people seems to me to be an incredibly extreme position - and if her return is suggesting secure psychiatric institutions which these individuals are not able to leave - for me, this really is equivalent for what I'd like prisons to look like. If she returns that she'd like to see these individuals (think Ted Bundy, Peter Sutcliffe, Harold Shipman, Jeffery Dahmer etc) retain freedom of movement - I really can't see how this would reduce harms in society.
I think Dalia made some great points at the end about the sheer destruction Kwarteng and Truss caused, how they refused to take accountability and then seeing him on BBC breakfast. She’s right, politics is a job for life if the establishment like you enough. Michael’s comparisons with his own mistakes don’t really work because we’re talking about a huge scale of devastation under Kwarteng and Truss.
You can’t just pretend that prisons don’t have a practical purpose of protecting the public from violent people!! Yes rehabilitate and be holistic but this has to involve some kind of incarceration and punishment, these are not the aspects to prisons which are failing
Dalia is, on prisons as on so many issues, so much more on the money than Michael. I think it’s because she has the imagination to envisage living in a completely different and better world. She’s a revolutionary. Michael’s instincts are to tinker around the edges.
Where would you put Tony Blair?
Brilliant discussion tonight, Dalia is so articulate, she was on fire tonight 🔥 ❤
It was ( Liz Truss) that Pushed Kwasi Kwateng to go ahead with the budget that affected us all. He wouldnt have been working on his own.
Everyone makes such a huge deal about Ukraine getting F-16s when most of them are now late-70s cold war era surplus. A half *century* old platform.
And the F16 need a half descent air strip to take off, land and for maintenance. Not easy to do in Ukraine.
I get the argument about prisons Dalia is making but the perpetrators of violent crime should be behind bars. What about victim trauma?
Interesting discussion regard prisons. Both made good points. Would be interested to see more debates between the Novara staff.
Maybe I’m just being naive, but why can’t we all join NATO and when/if a country unwarrantedly attacks another country, we all come to their defence?
eh? - we?
Dalia is so right! The whole world needs to look at Norway!
Officially 24 times more children have been killed in Gaza in 8 months than have been killed in Ukraine in 28 months.
The real rate is no doubt much higher given the Lancet estimate while the maim and mutilation rate is even higher again.
I think that NM needs a co presenter from the north. Some of these topics are discussed around life in the South East. It is very different however in the mill towns of the North. Issues with landlords are very different in London than most other places. The thought of releasing violent prisoners back to their small communities is an absolutely outrageous idea. Unless we want to see gangs, terror, vigilantes and no go areas! I'm certainly with Michael on that one.
Thanks to a British soft R, I've been thinking of Starmer's name as 'Stammer'.
Really enjoying the debates we're getting out of Michael's centrist arc lol
I don't think Labour were a "founding member" of NATO. (I'm sure he said "naco")?
I wish Novara presenters wouldn't feel the need to self-consciously emphasise certain parts of the script just to make sure we know EXACTLY where we should be outraged.
Dalia Gebrial went too far in drawing on heavy left-wing theory as opposed to practice and experience. It was irritating.
Aaron's next documentary ; Prisons; Aaron goes to Prison✌
No sound...?
Once again, Dalia just so on point.
This keeps switching to your merchandise rather than sticking to the reporting. If you want to be regarded as a serious news broadcaster sort it out. I gave up on it the fourth time it happened.
he's just an administrator, the assistant manager...he is not a leader...permanent fence sitter...bring back Blair and Brown..at least they would tell you one way or the other what they REALLY think
Pleaaaase do a structured NM debate on prison abolitionism!!!
Daia is absolutely correct on her takes about the prison system. Our society is not made safer by them there is plenty of evidence for that
They say the word Ukraine, but back in previous times politicians would say Ukrainian. the more one reads the more one learns
Tragic that innocent children have been killed. The difference between Ukrainian and Palestinian victims is that one government decided to attack its neighbour with predictable consequences and the the Ukrainians are victims of naked unprovoked aggression by a neighbouring country. To try to paint both conflicts with the same brush is ridiculous.
No point of NATO since no Warsaw Pact.
Ask the Eastern Europeans why they don't ditch NATO membership =3
@@dallysinghson5569 Westoids crying about NATO is so privileged. Easy to complain from a country not at risk of Russia rolling the tanks in.
STARMER THE PROTECTOR OF JIMMY SAVILE , HAD ALL THE EVIDENCE TO CONVICT HIM, BUT DIDN'T.
So, tories but red?
Dalia is talking out her arse on prisons. Yes, there should be way less prisons and prisoners, no they shouldn't be totally abolished.
Keir Saville. Is going to be a problem for the country.
Very well said regarding prisons Dalia!! 💜
It's easy to sit on the sidelines, talking philosophically, but to not be able to answer a question such as "should Wayne Cousins be in prison?" immediately and directly is one indicator as to why certain thinkers should not be in any policy or decision-making forum
Another revolving door for prime ministers?