Dave also, in the ending scene. Noticed when Aerith is underneath the Tiny Bronco and Cids starts it up. The wind blows everyone’s clothing and hair, accept Aerith. However, we she approaches Cloud and speaks to him, the wind is blowing her hair. I believe this is an indication that what Cloud perceives as Aerith is more real to him than the others.
My points: 1) The ultimania comfirms the multiple worlds, 7 of them. Some are shortlived, as Sephiroth said. 2) Sephiroth is basically creating a convergence where he believes he can finally succeed. 3) Aerith and Red 13 knew some stuff about the future, but lost their memories when defeating the “Arbiter of Fate” in the Remake. Cloud also got glimpses of the difere there. 4) Cloud still has an empty white Materia, and we still have Aerith and in Comatose. The white Materia carries memories, and I think it will be used in Part 3. 5) Tifa may have seen something when on Lifestream, and for a moment two Aerith with Cloud. 6) Each of Zack’s ending: Biggs, Shinra HQ, and Church are different choices Zack made. The Church timeline is the one that endup no ending, as Sephiroth explains. 7) Aerith tells Cloud when the battle starts on against Sephiroth, on the Edge of Creation, that she saw what he did there and thanks him 8) When a Sephirot says: I underestimated You, he means Aerith. 9) Ending, Ultimani says that Cloud and the party are indeed seeing different things. 10) something in found out on the internet, Gi Nattak is the Narrator of the First ever trailer of Final Fantasy 7 Remake. 11) Aerith on the forest, she is teleporting on that moment, doing 180s out of nowhere. She is already out of the regular Aerith stuff.
I felt like adding to your great enumeration: Sephiroth says that the confluence of emotions and worlds begins when the rest of the party arrives and reacts to Aerith's dead body. Lots of theorists often say that Cloud only lives in his fantasy world, which would be the confluence of worlds. I find this completely erronous because the confluence is happening to everyone. I'm not sure that Sephiroth's sentence "You will never see the truth with such clouded eyes" was only adressed to Cloud. Sephiroth gave him his blessing to see different worlds. He is the only one seeing the ripple in the sky, which could indicate that this timeline is marked for death, but no one will believe Cloud.
@@Sarmeris I’m all for new additions, I probably missed a lot of things. Always good to see other people theories. Good point on the Sephiroth’s blessing.
@@SarmerisI would agree, but the lifestream sequence in the OG has the exact rip in the sky, and what more, after he recovers. Cloud tells the party that he was the master of his own illusionary world. That's why it's ironic that Cloud tells the party in the last rebirth cutscene “it's not real it's just an illusion.” The devs are literally telling us the players that what Cloud sees can't be taken as actually Real.
@@joshz2491 well, if Cloud says that it's not real and we can't rely on him, it would basically mean that it's real. I think that Cloud has become more of a delusional prophet in Rebirth more than an unreliable narrator. I think Tifa will become more unreliable due to her having timeline visions because she was in the lifestream. Everyone will be confused, not just Cloud, creating disharmony within the group.
Nomura said Cloud was successful in deflecting Sephiroth’s blade, it hasn’t been confirmed that she’s dead nor has it been confirmed that she’s just some lifestream spirit
While Zack is falling back through the void he tells Cloud “SAVE her”, if Aerith is truly dead and Cloud is just ‘hallucinating’ why would the writers plant that line there? I don’t believe Aerith is completely dead and she survived in another timeline. It doesn’t make sense to lay out all the groundwork for multiverses only to throw it away at the end and say he’s just hallucinating. I think Cloud isn’t sad like everyone else because he knows she’s not truly gone and he experienced that other timeline. ….also Cait Sith made a prediction about “throw caution to the wind, trust in others and a last minute twist may pleasantly surprise you.” He can only be talking about one thing. Just a thought
Exactly, and Marlene tells Zack to save Cloud because he’s sick it’s coincidence that he’s already sitting in a wheelchair at that point with mako poisoning. Aerith already knew her fate in one timeline it’s why Marlene mentions it to Zack, but she also says that Cloud has to get better in order to save her so that’s where Zack comes in
So just something of note. Each portrayal of Zack at this part of the game is a different one. Even the Zack on the motorcycle. In the Zack that goes left, he is missing the ribbon on his hand when speaking to Biggs meaning he never had it on him in the first place to influence his decision to go right and save Cloud. On the Zack that goes right, he is on an entirely different motorcycle in the Shinra building. So i think its safe to say in addition to each piece of footage that shows you its own breed of Stamp, so to do we have Zack being differentiated by the subtle changes in his appearance in some of the scenes as well to show a different world taking the total count up to well past 5.
My theories so far. This first part applies to all my theories: Cloud made another timeline when deflecting Sephiroth's blade; the rainbow effect is indicative of this. Aerith did die, however, I am uncertain as to in which timeline this is in due to what happens at the end of the game. Sephiroth talks about giving Cloud a push to get him on side. Attempting to kill Aerith is the push Sephiroth is referring to as Cloud has now created a timeline where he saved Aerith. Sephiroth has spent most of Rebirth trying to convince Cloud to join him because he knows Cloud kills him. What doesn't make sense is why Sephiroth would kill Aerith as surely he would know from observing multiple worlds that Aerith's death results in Holy succeeding. Theory 1: Aerith was saved, and then either Sephiroth or Aerith corrected the timeline to have her die. She definitely did die because the party is mourning. Cloud is blocking out her death and this will be shown when Tifa fixes Cloud's mind in the Lifestream at Mideel. The Aerith that Cloud sees is an astral projection from the Lifestrean. Theory 2: Aerith died, and the party is mourning her. Aerith is alive in the timeline where the blade was deflected. Cloud now has Sephiroth's gift and can see in between worlds e.g. Cloud can now see the tear in the sky. The Aerith he can see is the Aerith from the timeline where she survived. I think what Sephiroth wants is to use Aerith's death to convince Cloud to join him as he will allow Cloud to save her OR Sephiroth does not know about the Aerith who survived. Either way... people can theorycraft all they want. The ending was ambiguous at various points. No one is right or wrong at this moment, but no one's theories are fact until the third game is released and all is revealed. What shocks me the most are the people who are outright saying people are wrong and they're right... as though they're the game developers 🤣 IMO there are now multiple Zack's. We also still have an Aerith who is in a coma. Maybe when we fix Cloud's mind, he will wake up in that wheelchair. No one knows. Also, for anyone saying they are not straying from the OG... they already have done. Who knows what part 3 will hold? We certainly don't because we aren't the developers.
Because Cloud can see the rift in the sky and the others can't and he can see Areith, I think he is being shown either by the lifestream or Areith, or maybe even Sephiroth.
I see it as different dreamlike worlds within the lifestream that will eventually fissile out. The people who die in reality (biggs and zack) will eventually meet their end in these worlds (Biggs getting shot, Zack dies by a large squad)
12:16 Ok, SO here is my theory and I think it's supported by specific evidence we SAW in the final chapters. We the AUDIENCE (not Cloud so it was something shown to him to possibly trick him later) are shown multiple timelines being created. We show this happens with a rainbow effect. Only CLOUD goes behind the whisper wall, he also has previously hopped dimensions before as he was given the full white Materia. Sephiorth also states that he has given Cloud 'his blessing'. Cloud is also holding the hollow White Materia........we the audience have NO IDEA what this means in terms of how his perception of.......EVERYTHING could be altered. The Cloud WE are following, who goes beyond the whisper wall, he saves Aerith, blocking the strike and creating a rainbow effect. We then see A Aerith die, but we do not HEAR Cloud's death dialouge, we also do not see her water burial at the end of the game. THESE ARE IMPORTANT SCENES THAT THE DEVS WOULD NO LEAVE OUT JUST FOR A 'GOTCHYA' FAKEOUT. This leads me to believe that A Aerith was saved but due to fate/destiny/whispers, the Aerith in the 'main' timeline died. Cloud is shown to be seperated from the party, rejoining the party, seperated again, meets Zack, they part again, etc. But across these various instances we are shown there are differences. The party gets their limit breaks because they see Aerith die, they are upset, they get their limit breaks, it's thematic. Cloud does not, he does not because he did not see/experience her death. Aerith then joins Cloud in the final battle and then fades away. If THAT was the last we saw of Aerith, I would say the Aerith at the end is a force ghost. But it isn't! We see cloud return to Aerith's body surrounded by the party, we then see a wipe and then Aerith's body is in a different position, and the party is GONE. Cloud tells Aerith to wake up, and she does. ALL OF THIS leads me to believe that Cloud saved Aerith creating a new timeline/world, BUT he is the only one who sees this. NOW I do not think Cloud is aware this is happening, hence his seemingly disconnect from the others. I think the flash he gets at the end about Aerith's 'death' is basically the memories of the OG timeline he SHOULD have experienced trying to beam itself into his head. This isn't new. OG memories have been blasted into his head since Remake but this time it's not something that WILL happen but something that HAS happened in the other timeline. Aerith, to me, seems to have too much.....agency? to be just a Cloud hallucination or a Jenovah trick (also the idea of a Jenovah trick that only CLOUD can see doesn't make sense.......Glenn Lodbrok anyone? That's a fake EVERYONE can see and is being used to cause a war. If jenovah wanted to trick the party SHE WOULD TRICK THE PARTY AND NOT JUST CLOUD, the guy is bonkers as is, it would be more effective to just trick EVERYONE) I think this is also backed up by Cloud looking into the sky and seeing the tear. No one else can see it but other worlds that DO have tears everyone can see. I think this is either due to Cloud percieving that a tear WILL appear, telegraphing the doom of their world, OR he is seeing the tear in the new world he created by saving Aerith, meaning that if something isn't done this Aerith could be erased. So i think Cloud not being sure of what exactly is happening in HIS world and not others worlds will hep lead to his mental decline in part 3...........BUT this is all just my thoughts........Also one guy pointed out Aerith doesn't get her final weapon in this game and if there WAS a weapon everyone was going to get it would be their ultimate weapon. Aerith can get it in the OG game before her death so I think she will return in SOME capacity in part 3.
7:08. I kind of think of it like the "Sacred Timeline" in Loki season 1. There was one timeline and the whispers were like a 'proactive TSA' working for Fate who was in charge prevented the new worlds from being created. Then Cloud and his gang kill fate and now the whispers don't work for fate, they work for the planet or sephiorth, so now the timelines/worlds are created from the main one. It seems that Sephiorth and the Planet are working to influence what is happening through their own seperate whispers which in turn end up creating and maybe even destroying more worlds.
At the end of Remake I was excited but nervous. After Rebirth I'm excited and I want them to do what ever they want with part 3. This ride was so fun. On a fearful note for the party, I do not think the planet has heard Aerith's prayer. That White Materia looked pretty damn white. I did not see any green. I would say the best way to describe what is happening to think of the Planet as an individual. It has its goals, dreams, and desired outcomes. But if you infect it with the same sickness as Cloud, it's going to freak out and fall apart. So let's go, kupo!
While I have already spoiled myself with the ending still having to finish the game myself, another channel mentioned a couple slides screening chronologically during the ending credits goes blank which seems to imply, that we didn't exactly see what happens with Aerith's "death" and not getting to see the burial either. Think we 'will' see these moments in Re-Three where I believe we'll see what actually happened when Tifa fixes Cloud in the lifestream.
The whole multiple worlds monologue explanation from Sephiroth heavily reminded me of FFX. This is because of; 1) Aerith dancing in TotA was really similar to Yuna's 'sending' dance. 2) After Aerith performed her song in Loveless it visually looked like the Farplane fireflies effect. 3) The fact that in "Zack's" world people are "aware" that their world is coming to an end. Sephiroth confirms pretty much confirms this. 4) Aerith could pull an Auron with Cloud because he's the only one who sees her. And so yeah I also think Aerith is dead. Whichever the case, Rebirth was amazing overall and I liked the ending even though you need to crack your brain as to what exactly is happening lol.
2:42 also there's a blink and you miss it, ANOTHER stamp on a background billboard in the scene where Zack chooses to go to shinra HQ on his bike and a different timeline is shown.
I’m sure exactly what you’re referring to. The stamp in the tunnel behind Zack is a terrier. The one in the shinra hq is also a terrier. The sign says “temporarily closed” implying that that world is gone or something.
So, with the sky showing that this world is going to end, am I going to have to prepare myself for the possibility that Part 3 ends with Sephiroth winning and Aerith's consciousness going back into OG Aerith in OG FF7? For this whole Remake Project to end up being effectively "just a dream" ?
Not much to say here but wow, your theories about what is going on with both Zack and Aerith pretty much line up with mine. I was with you thinking that Zack was looking pretty dead right up until he “accepted” his death, and then I’m pretty sure that Aerith might have brought him to the Remake world? And that Zack does look sentient and self aware of what’s going on. And for all of that to happen for him to just actually be dead? Idk, it just feels like it isn’t going in that direction. As for Aerith, yeah, she’s dead, those flashes we see are from Cloud’s perspective. I think it is both him creating some sort of false vision of her, blocking out her death, similar with him blocked out Zack dying honestly, along with her from the LS projecting herself to him to keep him from breaking. Many times this game she says that she wants to save him, and for him to look after himself, etc, so it fits.
So at the end i think we had also a slipt timeline that was created the one we follow Remake/Rebirth where Aeris dies... but there is one where he saves her... wich we did not follow.... the moment Cloud clashes sword with sephiroth the rainbow effect that is when he creates more timelines.
I don't understand why ppl blew up on max. The theory has solid evidence when you look into the Jenova lore. & the contradiction of what Aerith tells Cloud in the last date vs the ending are also good argument that it could be a Jenova shit...but all theories can be argued and we will have to wait till we get the 3rd game...
The red sensing her thing is the only thing that threw me off from just thinking "damn cloud is fucked up". Seems to still be the case but they also seem to want to use it maybe to cause conflict with the party and cloud in the third game. What I believe will potentially happen is, because he remembers Zack and such, that clouds lifestream segment with Tifa will be not to only just point out that it was Zack the whole time and he was a trooper, but it will be where Cloud realizes, with Tifas help, that he put aerith to rest and she is no longer with them. It feels obvious at this point but I haven't seen many people mention this.
Sephiroth doesn't slice Zack, he does the timeline splitting move and sends him into another world, in this instance I think he sends him between worlds.
I don't know what Sephiroth is cooking but he is cookin'! 🔪 I still think Cloud is pretty messed up in the head at the end, but idk how he got the Black Materia back. Didn't he give Sephiroth the Black Materia in chapter 13? 🤔
i thought Zack is alive near the end of game at 1st but after some re-watching and reconsideration I think there is a chance that he is dead. Evidence 1: "world" are not the same as "timelines," "dimensions" or "universe". Sephiroth used the word "world" very deliberately. I can use world to describe my "dream" world, my "fantasy" world. Like what Aerith did, when she talked to Cloud after "waking" him up in one of her "dream" world, as she describe it. Evidence 2: people in Zack's world & Aerith's world are really acting & talking weird. It could all just be Sephiroth destroy fate/absorb whispers & splitting the lifestream at the end of remake, thus creating multiple "spiritual/dream" worlds, that reflect the real world (like how our dream reflect the reality & real people we met, but act strangely according to our imagination, anxiety, desire & emotion etc). That is also a plausible interpretation. But maybe that is not correct neither. I guess the dev intentionally kept it very vague, and we will find out more in part 3. Now I thought about it, both Zack's alive or Zack's dead could work out story wise. In one case, he could join the party and lead when Cloud & Tifa is gone temporarily, in the other case he & Aerith can fight Sephiroth's forces in lifestream. Both could be epic. Just remember though that the dev mentioned eventually things will lead to Advent Children canon, so Zack has to die one way or the other eventually. Also JENOVA taking form of Aerith in Cloud's head is a great idea. Why people trash it I don't know. If I am JENOVA, I would definitely do that, why not?
I'm pretty sure at the end of Part 3, after everything is explained and all the scenes we've seen previously are given context and become totally logical and consistent... after all that, my reaction will be "Wow... well that was stupid and pointless..."
@@maillardsbearcat Are you referring to Aerith saying “This isn’t the promised land. It can’t be. Just look around. Not with all this sadness and anger”. That delivery had me tearing up. One of those moments of emotional truth and a commentary on the real world that makes me love this game despite its flaws
Why they had to make ending complicated. I liked the og simpler ending. Square went like one good good forward, a little step backwards, what i feel about the ending and overall execution on story elements
Is it possible for Aerith to have transferred her life thru the lifestream into the OG timeline? I want to say that Cloud seemed extremely happy to see her alive. Almost like she came back to life in his arms. I feel like Aerith would need to go to the OG timeline to go fix everything (since thats where Sephiroth becomes part of the lifestream) Also we have not seen any flash back (or flash forward) to the OG timeline. Which is strange since we are considering multiple possibilities making different worlds. Our original choices made the original world so why haven't we seen anything from it? And please don't say we changed fate so the OG timeline can't exist. Because it's because of Aerith and Sephiroth joining the lifestream in the OG timeline that their remake counterparts know so damn much 😂 (I just want to clarify that when i say a flash forward into the OG timeline i mean some sort of playable part like we see with Zack in Rebirth)
There Will be Something of special that the devs are cooking for Sephiroth in the third part...it's not a case that they are spending all the bosses we should have to confront in the final stages of the game.... I'm almost sure that Sephiroth Will not be the final boss😉
@@federicamacchia1656Well the meteor scene shown in Remake makes it seem like Sephiroth and Cloud are allies standing back to back as that shot is emphasized specifically, but I hope 🤞
@@The3rownie That's what they confirmed in some subtle way....Nomura said that, althought Sephiroth stands as main antagonist,We'll have him as ally in SOME situations During this Trilogy(not Just in the part of Nibelheim)....And i have to Say that i've already seen in at least a couple of situations a different kind of Sephiroth Who did Something very weird,but at the same time really risolutive...i say "different" Because this Sephiroth doesn't leave black feathers behind, doesn't act in a sadistic way as usually,acts according with the White whispers against the black ones,uses his strenght as a normal Soldier,not a Jenova type,and disappear without a word....That was really tooooo strange,considering that the final result of his action it's been a great gift for Tifa and then for Cloud himself....
But why biggs have memories of merc cloud ❓ also at the starting infantryman not recognising zack they are calling him traitor and they talks about soldier who had buster sword but he's working with avalanche ❓🤐 i don't know wtf is all that 😂
The problem is twofold: 1) it doesn't really matter if Aerith still lives in an alternate universe - *she's dead in the universe we're playing.* Again. And that fucking sucks. There's no solace to be derived from the notion that someone might be alive (or a copy of that someone) in a place we cannot ever access. That's like telling a person that your dead mother is still alive on another plane, being enjoyed by another family - who cares? We're denied her. And 2) Clerith fans don't ship Zack and Aerith - they ship CLOUD and Aerith. Just knowing Aerith is happy with 'not our guy' isn't really consolation at all. The game is fucking about CLOUD; not Zack. And we want CLOUD to be with who we perceive - rightly or wrongly - to be his 'true love.' That's the equivalent of falling in love with some girl in high school and then telling yourself it's a good ending because she's married-to-and-happy with your best friend. Who gives a rat's ass? Love is about self-fulfillment - not being some simp who finishes second. And, rest assured: Tifa? Is second place. The fallback chick from your hometown who has been crushing on you since before puberty isn't really in the same league as the sophisticated and graceful city girl who fell in love with adult you.
Well we don’t know fully yet what will happen Kitase was always against Aerith’s death even in the OG and he says this time he wants to give the characters a happy ending. Not to mention Cissnei clearly has feelings for Zack and is waiting around for him too so we don’t know what direction they will take
@@The3rownie I guess my feeling is: what was the point of romancing - or having romance choices - if we're going to be locked into Tifa again? Or, in a much broader sense: what is the point of choice - and change - *at all?* Why make alterations to the story - in some cases BIG alterations - if things just wrap up the same way? That's what I cling to. I've been a Clerith shipper since the original game. I spent hours chasing every lead that was available at the time regarding her potential revival (especially the 'ghost in the church' lead that was just so tantalizing). My 17-year-old self felt Aerith's death very, very hard - I don't know why that is, but I did. Last year, my younger sister died as a result of gross negligence at a California hospital. One moment, she was a gorgeous 31-year-old lawyer... and the next, a corpse. For some reason, emotionally, that (much greater) loss has become tied up in my mind with Aerith's death. I know that seems ludicrous, but it's absolutely true. When I saw Aerith die again... it felt like my sister was dying in front of me. I can't give her a happy ending - or my family. But I'd like a happy ending for these fictional characters. Because that's part of the point of stories - to escape; to escape the horrors of the real world.
It's not a timeline!!! A timeline is a graph 📉 ..... They are worlds calling it Timelines is such an over simplification..... Also ya know it's just a 📉. You literally played it Sephiroth says worlds let it go
Relax… it’s mostly semantics… “timelines” can refer to a world or continuity too. Remake itself uses the word “timeline” in the assessments for Viridi, Croceo, or Rubrum. I understand YOU conceptualize “timeline” to be a graph… but there is no normative definition that requires the devs or anyone to adopt that definition… So… it’s fine…
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Dave also, in the ending scene. Noticed when Aerith is underneath the Tiny Bronco and Cids starts it up. The wind blows everyone’s clothing and hair, accept Aerith. However, we she approaches Cloud and speaks to him, the wind is blowing her hair. I believe this is an indication that what Cloud perceives as Aerith is more real to him than the others.
My points:
1) The ultimania comfirms the multiple worlds, 7 of them. Some are shortlived, as Sephiroth said.
2) Sephiroth is basically creating a convergence where he believes he can finally succeed.
3) Aerith and Red 13 knew some stuff about the future, but lost their memories when defeating the “Arbiter of Fate” in the Remake. Cloud also got glimpses of the difere there.
4) Cloud still has an empty white Materia, and we still have Aerith and in Comatose. The white Materia carries memories, and I think it will be used in Part 3.
5) Tifa may have seen something when on Lifestream, and for a moment two Aerith with Cloud.
6) Each of Zack’s ending: Biggs, Shinra HQ, and Church are different choices Zack made. The Church timeline is the one that endup no ending, as Sephiroth explains.
7) Aerith tells Cloud when the battle starts on against Sephiroth, on the Edge of Creation, that she saw what he did there and thanks him
8) When a Sephirot says: I underestimated You, he means Aerith.
9) Ending, Ultimani says that Cloud and the party are indeed seeing different things.
10) something in found out on the internet, Gi Nattak is the Narrator of the First ever trailer of Final Fantasy 7 Remake.
11) Aerith on the forest, she is teleporting on that moment, doing 180s out of nowhere. She is already out of the regular Aerith stuff.
I felt like adding to your great enumeration: Sephiroth says that the confluence of emotions and worlds begins when the rest of the party arrives and reacts to Aerith's dead body. Lots of theorists often say that Cloud only lives in his fantasy world, which would be the confluence of worlds. I find this completely erronous because the confluence is happening to everyone.
I'm not sure that Sephiroth's sentence "You will never see the truth with such clouded eyes" was only adressed to Cloud.
Sephiroth gave him his blessing to see different worlds. He is the only one seeing the ripple in the sky, which could indicate that this timeline is marked for death, but no one will believe Cloud.
@@Sarmeris I’m all for new additions, I probably missed a lot of things. Always good to see other people theories. Good point on the Sephiroth’s blessing.
@@SarmerisI would agree, but the lifestream sequence in the OG has the exact rip in the sky, and what more, after he recovers. Cloud tells the party that he was the master of his own illusionary world.
That's why it's ironic that Cloud tells the party in the last rebirth cutscene “it's not real it's just an illusion.” The devs are literally telling us the players that what Cloud sees can't be taken as actually Real.
@@joshz2491 well, if Cloud says that it's not real and we can't rely on him, it would basically mean that it's real. I think that Cloud has become more of a delusional prophet in Rebirth more than an unreliable narrator. I think Tifa will become more unreliable due to her having timeline visions because she was in the lifestream. Everyone will be confused, not just Cloud, creating disharmony within the group.
The Rebirth Soundtrack gives clarity on the chapter events.
Nomura said Cloud was successful in deflecting Sephiroth’s blade, it hasn’t been confirmed that she’s dead nor has it been confirmed that she’s just some lifestream spirit
While Zack is falling back through the void he tells Cloud “SAVE her”, if Aerith is truly dead and Cloud is just ‘hallucinating’ why would the writers plant that line there? I don’t believe Aerith is completely dead and she survived in another timeline. It doesn’t make sense to lay out all the groundwork for multiverses only to throw it away at the end and say he’s just hallucinating. I think Cloud isn’t sad like everyone else because he knows she’s not truly gone and he experienced that other timeline.
….also Cait Sith made a prediction about “throw caution to the wind, trust in others and a last minute twist may pleasantly surprise you.” He can only be talking about one thing. Just a thought
Exactly, and Marlene tells Zack to save Cloud because he’s sick it’s coincidence that he’s already sitting in a wheelchair at that point with mako poisoning. Aerith already knew her fate in one timeline it’s why Marlene mentions it to Zack, but she also says that Cloud has to get better in order to save her so that’s where Zack comes in
So just something of note. Each portrayal of Zack at this part of the game is a different one. Even the Zack on the motorcycle. In the Zack that goes left, he is missing the ribbon on his hand when speaking to Biggs meaning he never had it on him in the first place to influence his decision to go right and save Cloud. On the Zack that goes right, he is on an entirely different motorcycle in the Shinra building. So i think its safe to say in addition to each piece of footage that shows you its own breed of Stamp, so to do we have Zack being differentiated by the subtle changes in his appearance in some of the scenes as well to show a different world taking the total count up to well past 5.
My theories so far.
This first part applies to all my theories: Cloud made another timeline when deflecting Sephiroth's blade; the rainbow effect is indicative of this. Aerith did die, however, I am uncertain as to in which timeline this is in due to what happens at the end of the game. Sephiroth talks about giving Cloud a push to get him on side. Attempting to kill Aerith is the push Sephiroth is referring to as Cloud has now created a timeline where he saved Aerith. Sephiroth has spent most of Rebirth trying to convince Cloud to join him because he knows Cloud kills him. What doesn't make sense is why Sephiroth would kill Aerith as surely he would know from observing multiple worlds that Aerith's death results in Holy succeeding.
Theory 1: Aerith was saved, and then either Sephiroth or Aerith corrected the timeline to have her die. She definitely did die because the party is mourning. Cloud is blocking out her death and this will be shown when Tifa fixes Cloud's mind in the Lifestream at Mideel. The Aerith that Cloud sees is an astral projection from the Lifestrean.
Theory 2: Aerith died, and the party is mourning her. Aerith is alive in the timeline where the blade was deflected. Cloud now has Sephiroth's gift and can see in between worlds e.g. Cloud can now see the tear in the sky. The Aerith he can see is the Aerith from the timeline where she survived.
I think what Sephiroth wants is to use Aerith's death to convince Cloud to join him as he will allow Cloud to save her OR Sephiroth does not know about the Aerith who survived.
Either way... people can theorycraft all they want. The ending was ambiguous at various points. No one is right or wrong at this moment, but no one's theories are fact until the third game is released and all is revealed. What shocks me the most are the people who are outright saying people are wrong and they're right... as though they're the game developers 🤣
IMO there are now multiple Zack's. We also still have an Aerith who is in a coma. Maybe when we fix Cloud's mind, he will wake up in that wheelchair. No one knows.
Also, for anyone saying they are not straying from the OG... they already have done. Who knows what part 3 will hold? We certainly don't because we aren't the developers.
Because Cloud can see the rift in the sky and the others can't and he can see Areith, I think he is being shown either by the lifestream or Areith, or maybe even Sephiroth.
The longer I think about it, I'm more convinced of multiple branching realities via lifestream than the timeline theory which is complicated
I see it as different dreamlike worlds within the lifestream that will eventually fissile out. The people who die in reality (biggs and zack) will eventually meet their end in these worlds (Biggs getting shot, Zack dies by a large squad)
12:16 Ok, SO here is my theory and I think it's supported by specific evidence we SAW in the final chapters.
We the AUDIENCE (not Cloud so it was something shown to him to possibly trick him later) are shown multiple timelines being created. We show this happens with a rainbow effect.
Only CLOUD goes behind the whisper wall, he also has previously hopped dimensions before as he was given the full white Materia. Sephiorth also states that he has given Cloud 'his blessing'. Cloud is also holding the hollow White Materia........we the audience have NO IDEA what this means in terms of how his perception of.......EVERYTHING could be altered.
The Cloud WE are following, who goes beyond the whisper wall, he saves Aerith, blocking the strike and creating a rainbow effect. We then see A Aerith die, but we do not HEAR Cloud's death dialouge, we also do not see her water burial at the end of the game. THESE ARE IMPORTANT SCENES THAT THE DEVS WOULD NO LEAVE OUT JUST FOR A 'GOTCHYA' FAKEOUT.
This leads me to believe that A Aerith was saved but due to fate/destiny/whispers, the Aerith in the 'main' timeline died. Cloud is shown to be seperated from the party, rejoining the party, seperated again, meets Zack, they part again, etc. But across these various instances we are shown there are differences. The party gets their limit breaks because they see Aerith die, they are upset, they get their limit breaks, it's thematic. Cloud does not, he does not because he did not see/experience her death.
Aerith then joins Cloud in the final battle and then fades away. If THAT was the last we saw of Aerith, I would say the Aerith at the end is a force ghost. But it isn't! We see cloud return to Aerith's body surrounded by the party, we then see a wipe and then Aerith's body is in a different position, and the party is GONE. Cloud tells Aerith to wake up, and she does.
ALL OF THIS leads me to believe that Cloud saved Aerith creating a new timeline/world, BUT he is the only one who sees this. NOW I do not think Cloud is aware this is happening, hence his seemingly disconnect from the others.
I think the flash he gets at the end about Aerith's 'death' is basically the memories of the OG timeline he SHOULD have experienced trying to beam itself into his head. This isn't new. OG memories have been blasted into his head since Remake but this time it's not something that WILL happen but something that HAS happened in the other timeline.
Aerith, to me, seems to have too much.....agency? to be just a Cloud hallucination or a Jenovah trick (also the idea of a Jenovah trick that only CLOUD can see doesn't make sense.......Glenn Lodbrok anyone? That's a fake EVERYONE can see and is being used to cause a war. If jenovah wanted to trick the party SHE WOULD TRICK THE PARTY AND NOT JUST CLOUD, the guy is bonkers as is, it would be more effective to just trick EVERYONE)
I think this is also backed up by Cloud looking into the sky and seeing the tear. No one else can see it but other worlds that DO have tears everyone can see. I think this is either due to Cloud percieving that a tear WILL appear, telegraphing the doom of their world, OR he is seeing the tear in the new world he created by saving Aerith, meaning that if something isn't done this Aerith could be erased. So i think Cloud not being sure of what exactly is happening in HIS world and not others worlds will hep lead to his mental decline in part 3...........BUT this is all just my thoughts........Also one guy pointed out Aerith doesn't get her final weapon in this game and if there WAS a weapon everyone was going to get it would be their ultimate weapon. Aerith can get it in the OG game before her death so I think she will return in SOME capacity in part 3.
7:08. I kind of think of it like the "Sacred Timeline" in Loki season 1. There was one timeline and the whispers were like a 'proactive TSA' working for Fate who was in charge prevented the new worlds from being created. Then Cloud and his gang kill fate and now the whispers don't work for fate, they work for the planet or sephiorth, so now the timelines/worlds are created from the main one. It seems that Sephiorth and the Planet are working to influence what is happening through their own seperate whispers which in turn end up creating and maybe even destroying more worlds.
I took it the same exact way. I think it’s an easy way to understand better
At the end of Remake I was excited but nervous. After Rebirth I'm excited and I want them to do what ever they want with part 3. This ride was so fun. On a fearful note for the party, I do not think the planet has heard Aerith's prayer. That White Materia looked pretty damn white. I did not see any green.
I would say the best way to describe what is happening to think of the Planet as an individual. It has its goals, dreams, and desired outcomes. But if you infect it with the same sickness as Cloud, it's going to freak out and fall apart. So let's go, kupo!
While I have already spoiled myself with the ending still having to finish the game myself, another channel mentioned a couple slides screening chronologically during the ending credits goes blank which seems to imply, that we didn't exactly see what happens with Aerith's "death" and not getting to see the burial either. Think we 'will' see these moments in Re-Three where I believe we'll see what actually happened when Tifa fixes Cloud in the lifestream.
The Landi Lodge has the best explanation. 3 hour video.
The whole multiple worlds monologue explanation from Sephiroth heavily reminded me of FFX. This is because of; 1) Aerith dancing in TotA was really similar to Yuna's 'sending' dance. 2) After Aerith performed her song in Loveless it visually looked like the Farplane fireflies effect. 3) The fact that in "Zack's" world people are "aware" that their world is coming to an end. Sephiroth confirms pretty much confirms this. 4) Aerith could pull an Auron with Cloud because he's the only one who sees her. And so yeah I also think Aerith is dead.
Whichever the case, Rebirth was amazing overall and I liked the ending even though you need to crack your brain as to what exactly is happening lol.
2:42 also there's a blink and you miss it, ANOTHER stamp on a background billboard in the scene where Zack chooses to go to shinra HQ on his bike and a different timeline is shown.
seemingly implying that by making ANY choice it creates a new world/new stamp
I’m sure exactly what you’re referring to. The stamp in the tunnel behind Zack is a terrier. The one in the shinra hq is also a terrier. The sign says “temporarily closed” implying that that world is gone or something.
@@DashingDavid You also see that sign in Junon just to the left of Barrett so there is different stamps in the same timelines.
@@DashingDavid Ultumania just droped and it confirmed 5-6 different world.
So, with the sky showing that this world is going to end, am I going to have to prepare myself for the possibility that Part 3 ends with Sephiroth winning and Aerith's consciousness going back into OG Aerith in OG FF7? For this whole Remake Project to end up being effectively "just a dream" ?
Not much to say here but wow, your theories about what is going on with both Zack and Aerith pretty much line up with mine.
I was with you thinking that Zack was looking pretty dead right up until he “accepted” his death, and then I’m pretty sure that Aerith might have brought him to the Remake world?
And that Zack does look sentient and self aware of what’s going on.
And for all of that to happen for him to just actually be dead?
Idk, it just feels like it isn’t going in that direction.
As for Aerith, yeah, she’s dead, those flashes we see are from Cloud’s perspective.
I think it is both him creating some sort of false vision of her, blocking out her death, similar with him blocked out Zack dying honestly, along with her from the LS projecting herself to him to keep him from breaking.
Many times this game she says that she wants to save him, and for him to look after himself, etc, so it fits.
The ending wasn’t my cub of tea so many unanswered questions and it ruined the most Iconic scene in gaming
Maybe Zack and Aerith switched places after Areith died so now she's in the life stream some where and Zack is in our Timeline. Just a theroy
Not a bad theory
So at the end i think we had also a slipt timeline that was created the one we follow Remake/Rebirth where Aeris dies... but there is one where he saves her... wich we did not follow.... the moment Cloud clashes sword with sephiroth the rainbow effect that is when he creates more timelines.
I don't understand why ppl blew up on max. The theory has solid evidence when you look into the Jenova lore. & the contradiction of what Aerith tells Cloud in the last date vs the ending are also good argument that it could be a Jenova shit...but all theories can be argued and we will have to wait till we get the 3rd game...
I think in Rebirth Ultimania it’s either confirmed or hinted that she isn’t Jenova at the end
@@The3rownie awesome, what did it say? I havnt had the chance to check the Ultimania translations yet.
Or it is just Cloud not accepting her death
The red sensing her thing is the only thing that threw me off from just thinking "damn cloud is fucked up". Seems to still be the case but they also seem to want to use it maybe to cause conflict with the party and cloud in the third game.
What I believe will potentially happen is, because he remembers Zack and such, that clouds lifestream segment with Tifa will be not to only just point out that it was Zack the whole time and he was a trooper, but it will be where Cloud realizes, with Tifas help, that he put aerith to rest and she is no longer with them. It feels obvious at this point but I haven't seen many people mention this.
Sephiroth doesn't slice Zack, he does the timeline splitting move and sends him into another world, in this instance I think he sends him between worlds.
Semantics
I don't know what Sephiroth is cooking but he is cookin'! 🔪 I still think Cloud is pretty messed up in the head at the end, but idk how he got the Black Materia back. Didn't he give Sephiroth the Black Materia in chapter 13? 🤔
i thought Zack is alive near the end of game at 1st but after some re-watching and reconsideration I think there is a chance that he is dead. Evidence 1: "world" are not the same as "timelines," "dimensions" or "universe". Sephiroth used the word "world" very deliberately. I can use world to describe my "dream" world, my "fantasy" world. Like what Aerith did, when she talked to Cloud after "waking" him up in one of her "dream" world, as she describe it. Evidence 2: people in Zack's world & Aerith's world are really acting & talking weird. It could all just be Sephiroth destroy fate/absorb whispers & splitting the lifestream at the end of remake, thus creating multiple "spiritual/dream" worlds, that reflect the real world (like how our dream reflect the reality & real people we met, but act strangely according to our imagination, anxiety, desire & emotion etc). That is also a plausible interpretation. But maybe that is not correct neither. I guess the dev intentionally kept it very vague, and we will find out more in part 3. Now I thought about it, both Zack's alive or Zack's dead could work out story wise. In one case, he could join the party and lead when Cloud & Tifa is gone temporarily, in the other case he & Aerith can fight Sephiroth's forces in lifestream. Both could be epic. Just remember though that the dev mentioned eventually things will lead to Advent Children canon, so Zack has to die one way or the other eventually. Also JENOVA taking form of Aerith in Cloud's head is a great idea. Why people trash it I don't know. If I am JENOVA, I would definitely do that, why not?
I'm pretty sure at the end of Part 3, after everything is explained and all the scenes we've seen previously are given context and become totally logical and consistent...
after all that, my reaction will be "Wow... well that was stupid and pointless..."
100%. Then you get lines like "it's not the same, all the sadness, all the anger", like ugh that means absolutely nothing.
@@maillardsbearcat Are you referring to Aerith saying “This isn’t the promised land. It can’t be. Just look around. Not with all this sadness and anger”. That delivery had me tearing up. One of those moments of emotional truth and a commentary on the real world that makes me love this game despite its flaws
@@ectogamut I wish I could be as invested as you
Why they had to make ending complicated. I liked the og simpler ending. Square went like one good good forward, a little step backwards, what i feel about the ending and overall execution on story elements
let me ask you something is tifa going to save cloud in part 3?
Is it possible for Aerith to have transferred her life thru the lifestream into the OG timeline? I want to say that Cloud seemed extremely happy to see her alive. Almost like she came back to life in his arms. I feel like Aerith would need to go to the OG timeline to go fix everything (since thats where Sephiroth becomes part of the lifestream) Also we have not seen any flash back (or flash forward) to the OG timeline. Which is strange since we are considering multiple possibilities making different worlds. Our original choices made the original world so why haven't we seen anything from it? And please don't say we changed fate so the OG timeline can't exist. Because it's because of Aerith and Sephiroth joining the lifestream in the OG timeline that their remake counterparts know so damn much 😂 (I just want to clarify that when i say a flash forward into the OG timeline i mean some sort of playable part like we see with Zack in Rebirth)
I hope Zack is not in the beagle timeline. I thought his use in the other timelines was fine.
yeah Aerith can't help as a human she needs to be in the Lifestream to help Cloud
I’m still confused but hella fun game
There Will be Something of special that the devs are cooking for Sephiroth in the third part...it's not a case that they are spending all the bosses we should have to confront in the final stages of the game.... I'm almost sure that Sephiroth Will not be the final boss😉
@@federicamacchia1656Well the meteor scene shown in Remake makes it seem like Sephiroth and Cloud are allies standing back to back as that shot is emphasized specifically, but I hope 🤞
@@The3rownie That's what they confirmed in some subtle way....Nomura said that, althought Sephiroth stands as main antagonist,We'll have him as ally in SOME situations During this Trilogy(not Just in the part of Nibelheim)....And i have to Say that i've already seen in at least a couple of situations a different kind of Sephiroth Who did Something very weird,but at the same time really risolutive...i say "different" Because this Sephiroth doesn't leave black feathers behind, doesn't act in a sadistic way as usually,acts according with the White whispers against the black ones,uses his strenght as a normal Soldier,not a Jenova type,and disappear without a word....That was really tooooo strange,considering that the final result of his action it's been a great gift for Tifa and then for Cloud himself....
But why biggs have memories of merc cloud ❓ also at the starting infantryman not recognising zack they are calling him traitor and they talks about soldier who had buster sword but he's working with avalanche ❓🤐 i don't know wtf is all that 😂
The problem is twofold: 1) it doesn't really matter if Aerith still lives in an alternate universe - *she's dead in the universe we're playing.* Again. And that fucking sucks. There's no solace to be derived from the notion that someone might be alive (or a copy of that someone) in a place we cannot ever access. That's like telling a person that your dead mother is still alive on another plane, being enjoyed by another family - who cares? We're denied her.
And 2) Clerith fans don't ship Zack and Aerith - they ship CLOUD and Aerith. Just knowing Aerith is happy with 'not our guy' isn't really consolation at all. The game is fucking about CLOUD; not Zack. And we want CLOUD to be with who we perceive - rightly or wrongly - to be his 'true love.' That's the equivalent of falling in love with some girl in high school and then telling yourself it's a good ending because she's married-to-and-happy with your best friend. Who gives a rat's ass? Love is about self-fulfillment - not being some simp who finishes second. And, rest assured: Tifa? Is second place. The fallback chick from your hometown who has been crushing on you since before puberty isn't really in the same league as the sophisticated and graceful city girl who fell in love with adult you.
Well we don’t know fully yet what will happen Kitase was always against Aerith’s death even in the OG and he says this time he wants to give the characters a happy ending. Not to mention Cissnei clearly has feelings for Zack and is waiting around for him too so we don’t know what direction they will take
@@The3rownie I guess my feeling is: what was the point of romancing - or having romance choices - if we're going to be locked into Tifa again? Or, in a much broader sense: what is the point of choice - and change - *at all?* Why make alterations to the story - in some cases BIG alterations - if things just wrap up the same way?
That's what I cling to. I've been a Clerith shipper since the original game. I spent hours chasing every lead that was available at the time regarding her potential revival (especially the 'ghost in the church' lead that was just so tantalizing). My 17-year-old self felt Aerith's death very, very hard - I don't know why that is, but I did.
Last year, my younger sister died as a result of gross negligence at a California hospital. One moment, she was a gorgeous 31-year-old lawyer... and the next, a corpse. For some reason, emotionally, that (much greater) loss has become tied up in my mind with Aerith's death. I know that seems ludicrous, but it's absolutely true.
When I saw Aerith die again... it felt like my sister was dying in front of me. I can't give her a happy ending - or my family. But I'd like a happy ending for these fictional characters. Because that's part of the point of stories - to escape; to escape the horrors of the real world.
I can’t believe I’m the first. I just taking my lunch
Hi 🤓
Hello 🥸
I feel like we should get a Aerith only DLC for Rebirth to have a better understanding of the ending.
i told you Aerith' is going to die in part 2
It's not a timeline!!! A timeline is a graph 📉 ..... They are worlds calling it Timelines is such an over simplification..... Also ya know it's just a 📉. You literally played it Sephiroth says worlds let it go
Anyways multiple timelines
Relax… it’s mostly semantics… “timelines” can refer to a world or continuity too. Remake itself uses the word “timeline” in the assessments for Viridi, Croceo, or Rubrum.
I understand YOU conceptualize “timeline” to be a graph… but there is no normative definition that requires the devs or anyone to adopt that definition…
So… it’s fine…
BabySeal enters the chat! 🙌
Timelines = worlds, it’s just being used semantically. FF14 uses similar story mechanics if you’ve ever played that one.