I started doing doubles for recovery. I recover quicker after a hard run if I run easy. Now that I run twice a day, one hard, one easy, I'm always fresh for the next day.
When I ran doubles it definitely made my body more efficient at recovery (or at least it seemed to). I was able to slowly up mileage of each run in a day and peak at over 20 miles daily with one 10 mile run and one 12 mile or two 12 miles. I was only taking a rest day once every other week and ran doubles at least 3-4 times a week often alternating every other day.
@Bill Ding the constructor oh I know. Always heard about Lydiard having Snell do 100 miles as an 800 runner. It never fails to boggle my mind. Certainly if I had the time to run easy that often, I'm sure my running would benefit.
This training talk really missed the primary purpose of doubling, in my opinion. Once you start running more than 50 miles per week, daily "easy" runs can reach a duration of greater than 60 or 65 minutes. Once this happens, these "easy" runs start mimicking long runs. Long runs are fatiguing because they deplete stores of intramuscular glycogen (long chain sugar used as energy). Glycogen storage and depletion is a major determinant of marathon and ultramarathon performance, but by doing regular runs over ~ 65 minutes, the muscles can also become glycogen deficient over a period of a week or weeks. And glycogen deficiency will cause fatigue. Therefore, the point of doing a "double" is that it separates this one heavily depleting run that reaches deep into your intramuscular glycogen stores into two only mildly depleting runs. Refueling glycogen stores after separate running efforts is much easier that refueling after a single draining effort. Assuming you eat a meal in between runs, "doubling" prevents the severe glycogen depletion that might occur by doing the same duration (or distance) in a single effort.
Nathan Kimbro - it's constructive criticism. I'm not sure why there appears sarcasm behind your wording when he's critically thinking the efficiency of doubles.
Comments111 Constructive criticism... Whereas your comment is nonsense. Should be thankful Sage brings a community together to discuss these topics and receive feedback that is relevant; guess you aren't interested in that though by the amount of effort spent on your comment.
The miles to km conversion always messes me up when trying to absorb and make sense of the advise given... i will have to adjust. Thanx for sharing coach!
Adam Ervin Great idea! I did a talk on mile training/racing already I think...but the shorter repeats for sure. And to answer @Flynn Goodger 's question below (can't do a direct response) for younger runners the key is really to slowly build up easy mileage while having fun. Be consistent and don't get hurt! Build a large aerobic base in off-season before cross country and before track even starts. Work on finding your Tempo run speed and learn to hold back. For long term improvement it's all about the lactate threshold and running economy. Short repeats, anaerobic speed and Vo2max are just icing on the cake (and get you race ready and very fit).
I just finished 105 miles this week doing only one run a day. I find that I recover better and it helps build more strength overall. It also makes running a shorter tempo run much easier. I used to run twice a day in college, upwards of 140 miles a week. Now, I prefer running only once a day.
Thanks for the tips Sage. Have often thought about single (longer) vs doubles in a day... older runners can benefit from a recovery between runs, as can those limited to distance while recovering from injury. Another advantage of doubles is you can fit them in before & after work...
For me doubles is simply a time thing I have very limited time Mon-Thurs so splitting it up ensures I get the minimum done without affecting work while letting me pick up the slack afterwards.
My 2 cents: Thanks as always Sage. As a mid-back packer and preferring trails - family commitments sometimes leave me at a loose end and I cannot do a long run on the weekend. I substitute a hard, flat road short workout in the morning and a recovery run on trail in the afternoon / early evening. I find it is a good substitute for a long trail run.
51 year old ultra runner and I run Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Double runs on Monday and Thursday for up to 60 miles and Tuesday and Friday for over 60 miles. The rest of the days I need for recovery, and maybe have occasional run on a Saturday.
I started two short runs a day. 3-5 miles in the morning and 3 mile early evenings. And it actually helped me with less pain and gain of distance on my long run (with shorter time). I do two runs a day three times a week plus three long runs. Since I'm only a beginner runner, I wish I saw this video half an year ago. Thanks
triathlon is great for doubles and triples, or breaking up long swim days into 3*1.5k for instance. a triple might be morning swim, lunch bike and evening run. no stress and each set a good workout. it's how you get in ur 25 hr weeks 😀
There is another benefit to doubles. If you Train lower miles, but run long events, then doubles are really useful for specific stimuli (running on tired legs). A couple of weeks ago I ran a half marathon in the morning, then went out and did another in the evening. Great stimulus for an ultra, especially because I didn't have 5 hours in one go to do a full marathon in zone 2
I read and have personal experience that running doubles teaches your body to recover quicker and overall more efficiently. Like you said it is easier on joints and helps prevent overtraining while reaching mileage goals weekly. I was slowly increasing mileage of each run over a period of a couple months to reach 120-150 miles weekly without feeling the fatigue and other effects from long runs each week while still upping my mileage. I'm not sure how accurate this is since it's anecdotal. It's like I was become more durable regarding miles ran each day by keeping my body in a state of aerobic efficiency.
From what I've read it might help clear lactic acid. I always find I don't do recovery work within 20 hrs wierd things start happening. That's why I hate tapering.
I would love to run twice a day if I could. But yes, I am one of those who between work/commute I work 50 hours a week. So it's really possible for me right now! I'm still happy to be able to run once a day if I can though.
Great vid as usual. I've often read about the benefits of running twice a day vs one, but it's nice to hear someone talking about the drawbacks, especially time consomption for average joes like myself!
i like doing a hard run in the morning and a lighter run in the evening. at a minimum i will do 3 separate 20 min walks throughout my day preferably after a meal. lovin life!
Great topic! Thanks for clarifying the different situations. I am currently at 40 MPW and hoping to develop a stronger base to move up to 50 MPW hopefully do a 50k trail race in the future. With work schedule i can only fit in 1 run a day. Thanks for the great videos and keep up the quality work.
Sage i am 14 years old and enjoy your videos and running and maby a talk on young runners and how to make a good training plan or how much running is too much. I am a 10 k runner 50:14PR looking to add to my training plan. What should some tips for young runners be. Thanks
Flynn Goodger I think at 14 or 15 you're no longer young, but sage's standard advice is long slow run, plus lactate threshold training, plus vo2 max training. the LT session is say ur 20 minute tempo. the vo2 max session is intervals. and diet! good luck 👍
I'm in a strange situation and my coach only gives us workouts that total up to 15-20 miles a week in singles. I'm primarily a 3200 runner and respond very well to lots of aerobic work, so this obviously isn't enough for me. I've been running before practice in the morning by myself, just easy runs of about 4-5 miles + 8-10 mile long runs on the weekend. Is this the right call for someone in my situation? It's either 15 miles in singles or 40 in doubles.
It would be interesting to see what are your thoughts on cross training. Like is it beneficial? What do you think of the new fad of pool running? What are the best workouts you would do to stay in shape while injured?
One workout a day is the recommended advice but runners are a different breed from the general population in fact one workout a day is fine for them bit not for us.
What about running an equal double where the rest period between runs is equal to the time taken to run the first eg. 10km in one hour, rest one hour, then run another 10km in an hour
Do you think it's a good idea for middle distance runners to do a higher mileage run in the morning and intervals/strides in the evening or just once a day?
What is your view on back to back long runs? Is this an effective training stimulus or do the dangers of overtraining outweigh the possible benefits? What type of runners would reap the most benefits from this workout and during what phase of training would btb long runs be most useful? Thanks, and great video!
Did you have any long term injuries or niggles, like calf strains, tight hamstrings or sore lower back?? I seem to have tight calf’s comes and goes.. the more I accelerate/top end speed the more chance I can start to feel it..
How about running twice a day - once with good intensity or standard, and once jogging(4-5min/km) for like 20-30 min for better recovery? Would that work?
You get used to it. Once you get a better form (upper body is straight and slightly bent forward, feet are landing under body, and your arms and shoulders should move opposite your legs (right leg up: left arm and shoulder up etc.)- oh and your arms should not be going farther up then your heart), you step lighter (if you sound like you are stomping you are doing it wrong), you get a better cadence (amount of steps you take a minute of any amount of time really) and you learn to control your breathing (ideally it should take three steps for you to breath in deeply into your stomach, not your chest but deep into your stomach, and three steps to breath out completely). Sorry for the mess of parentheses, as I tried to keep it as concise as possible. There is a lot more to learn out there, and this is only a fraction of what I could have told you, but I tried to hit the major points. There are a lot of finer points like food, hydration, sleep and iron that I did not cover. To anyone that reads this, remember to keep striking midfoot and to keep running!
Hey Sage, I would appreciate if you talked about (or even just responded to my comment here) running books. I have seen in some of your prior videos that you have showed us a few different books. Which books do you recommend? Thanks, -Dillon
Any thoughts on now this translates for slower runners? Meaning I may have only ran 56 miles this week but that was 8 hours of running over the course of 7 runs. Whereas a true runner would have run much higher miles in the same time or have ran for far less time. How many hours a week before focusing on doubling?
thanks for this sage! i've experimented with doubles just once a week - so that i can get in a group run as opposed to just running solo. have you also got any thoughts on fat loading (and then carb loading) in advance of marathons/ultras?
You Vo2maxProductions covered just about "all angles" on this topic. methinks that majority of runners trying to get to a higher (elite?) level, really do need to use the "doubles" as the way to "get there." (i.e., higher mileage/faster times) U kind of implied this in your commentary. Need to do these doubles more often meself, as I often feel/run better that 2nd run. Trouble is....I've got to do bike/swim hrs as well so, don't see me getting beyond (nor need?) say 30mi max (I prefer Km's....) in a wk, be it doubles or singles, time-wise as well. (Olympic Tri distances max, right now...10km; 13mi max planned for future 70.3 1/2 IM's) Yet if were making videos, I'd be promoting doubles more so than you, as methinks this would benefit the "average/majority" of runners (or would be runners.....) out there, to make "the jump" to higher mileage runs for the day/week, as case may be; for I recall the pain of that first 10k I ever did. Maybe would've transitioned better to 10k via 2x5km runs or say, a 5k + 7k, before making that jump to 10k straight up (with only a 7k/8k max beforehand).
Ok, I get what you're saying, but another question stemming from this. So you say that there is more stimulus from one run, but you're also saying that you can "get in more miles". Do these "junk miles" have any value besides just making a weekly total bigger? Is there a specific value in simply building huge mileage even if most of it is junk?
I think when he says you can get in more miles, they don't all have to be junk miles. You should minimize junk mileage as much as possible. Easy long runs should not be confused for recovery runs. Easy long runs can contribute to junk mileage, but recovery runs do not. There is a subtle difference there.
Cordis Hall I actually don' like the term "junk miles." I think all miles count for something. The fact that one day a person runs 12 miles in two runs vs. running 10 miles in one run aerobically doesn't make that much difference (and 2 miles more in a weekly total is very marginal). However, over time those differences add up....most importantly the higher mileage totals (from doubles) do make a difference in the structure and mechanics of your muscles and that will make you stronger. Also you keep doing that and maybe you burn several hundred more calories each day. Any extra mile might be 100 calories give or take! Finally we look that maybe the overall pace on two 6-milers might have been a bit faster than the single 10 mile run. So in theory yes, that would count for more. But I don't believe in junk miles...I double a lot! For most people (with time constraints who run under 60 miles a week) it's better not to though...but it does depend on running experience, injury risk, surface, speed, and what one is training for.
Vo2maxProductions The term "junk miles" has been changed from its original meaning. I think, but I may be wrong. Junk miles are like this: suppose you set up a reasonable run week with the purpose of fitness and a reasonably happy 5k. You decide to run 30mpw. Maybe a long run of 9 miles on your long day, maybe 3 to 4 miles at tempo/lactate/threshold pace or whatever they're calling it these days, and the rest of your runs are just easy and conversational. Congratulations, you're running 30mpw. You decide that "more is better" so you start counting ALL of your miles. You run to the store to pick up a gallon of milk AND>>>>to add a mile to your volume. That's junk.
Hi Sage, interested to know your thoughts on training surfaces and how you can find ways to ease the mileage load when training for a road ultramarathon. I am training for Comrades marathon (89km/56mi). I will peak at around 115-120km per week. If I have a brilliant day, I might get at finish around 9 hours. The race is an "up-run" which means a nett altitude gain of around 1800m and climbing from sea-level up to around 800m, with the finish and around 700m. Most of the climbing is in the 1st 40km. (36km mark is at the same altitude as the finish. At other times of the year I do quite a bit of trail running and enjoy it a lot more than dodging cars and hopping pavements. Its also obviously a lot easier with impact and builds strength for climbing. But is the reduction of impact a positive or negative aspect? Being a 90kg runner (that's a lean 90kg- I'm 1.95m tall and carry quite a bit of upper body muscle as my main sport it kayaking. Body fat % is below 10%) my PB's over short distances are really fast compared to those when I go longer. 17:56 for 5km, 1:23 half marathon, 3:26 marathon. And when I go passed 60km it gets really hard to carry my body weight and keep running efficiently. My hip area just goes tight and I can't bounce through my stride anymore. So my question is... keep the impact and build impact tolerance or train with less impact and recover better? I am forced to road run most of the time as training in the early morning in winter means its too dark to trail run, but should I hit the trail when I can?
I'm 13 and I'm running by myself and have no one to train me .so I've already gotten patellar tendinitis once from amping my mileage up, so How should I amp my mileage up with out injury
Training yourself is always a good time. I'd say do some research, I know a lot of track and such in middle school is really low mileage and cross country isn't as intense as it is in high school but it'll probably be enough. If you don't do any of that I'd personally run 4-7 miles 4-5 times a week and work up to running that distance every day. Make sure you don't put in too much too fast.
Keep your mileage relatively easy and slowly build up. Slowly, if you run 20 miles one week, just pump it up a few miles the next and take the long term approach. When your that young pushing up mileage quickly or with too much intensity puts you at greater risk for injury. You have lots of time for improvement so focus on slow and steady progress. Running is a long term game, so just keep inching your way up. Also, make sure to incorporate a strength and stretching routine. The little things will add up to big success down the road.
Hey sage do you think its possible to go 1:55 if I run a 2:15 in a years worth of training? If not what's the fastest you think I could achieve in the 800m
In a years worth of training I've found that myself and my peers have been able to go into the low 2s. I'd say it's more maintenance than anything. Once you exit the track season, maintain your aerobic capacity and don't slip up, and maybe do one super small speed session a week so that your legs don't forget the speed. If you train hard enough, you could do it. Just do XC in the off season, which will help a lot. Furthermore, sub2 is a bit more mental than physical, so once you do it, physically you should be able to get to it.
Shreyas Sriram first off, I never cracked 2. Ran 2:00.4 open twice. I believe it is very physical. The real question(s) for this guy is this: What is your open 400m speed? And how old are you?
So far I've gone down from 2:19 to 2:00.6 in a year, even though my focus has been on the 3200 and my top 400 has only been 54.1. The only reason I thought it was more mental is because my friend ran 2:00 several meets, but he found that a few workouts one week really boosted his confidence and then he ran 1:58 that same week. The same applied to his little brother, one year younger, who then ran 1:59 after claiming he had broken through a mental barrier. I definitely do agree that it is physical, maintaining that speed is no joke for a high schooler, but I've heard claims of mental block which is why I brought up that point. Of course, you have the better experience of course :)
Vo2maxProductions I'm a junior (one year left sadly!) And I know it will take dedication . trust me I've been hit with a sense of urgency like 4 months ago so I know everyday counts..I'm a guy to only be considered the 800/1600 meter type..not really built for aerobic speed for the 400..I probably could whip out a 57 flat right now without spikes...and I know that may not be a fast time for now, but for sure if I do my training that my Coach has for us ( Scott Hippensteel he ran for UT) I'm sure I can break 1:57 its just ....I'm literally racing against the clock now. Senior year is coming fast..and I need to train my butt off harder than ever..yet still staying injury free with weights. My age is 16 going on 17 in a couple of days.. And I know maybe running sub 1:55 is kinda out of the question...but you have no idea who my coach is nor what he has accomplished in his 26 years of XC and Track. So I pray to god I can get sub 1:57..but also a good mile time too .( mostly I am shooting for the 800 ) we had a runner from our school that my coach trained ..his name is Robert urh..and he ran 1:54 at the State meet winning it by like 1second. Which was really cool. He now runs for UT..and that's My main Goal too. To Go run for UT!
Vo2maxProductions my weekly diet consist of around 60+ miles ...based off of PAAVO...so Mondays are long runs usually 10-13..Tuesdays are CT days..usually 5-8 miles..Wednesday is usually a speed workout and sometimes its on a Tuesday too like a short tempo .. Thursdays are another CT day ..Fridays are speed or if not that its another CT day due to a meet or something along those lines....Saturdays are sometimes LD (long days ) usually 10+ miles .. Sundays..usually on your own..but it can be an off day as well. ...and I must say that I've recently just became uninjured.. So now I'm slowly building up again to what I had..I ran 21 miles last week( I know its nothing ) and I'm shooting for 30 this week and I'll probably hold it for another week..and then 45 miles...and so on....but yeah I've been doing 100+ pushups everyday ( no lie ) and I do weights as well..not heavy heavy weights of course...butt kicks as well..high knees and all these other drills we do for better form.. That's what I basically do for my running diet...and yes I do eat right as well..salads mostly everyday.. And lots of water .
mtednby21 I dont allow my middle school and high school runners to spike up unless it is specific fartleks, or 200, 400, or 800 etc. No distance or race simulation in spkes.
mtednby21 a couple workouts just to get your legs race ready. But most workouts for sure not...esp. longer repeats. You can get lightweight road flats for those! Save your spikes mainly for the race!
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I started doing doubles for recovery. I recover quicker after a hard run if I run easy. Now that I run twice a day, one hard, one easy, I'm always fresh for the next day.
When I ran doubles it definitely made my body more efficient at recovery (or at least it seemed to). I was able to slowly up mileage of each run in a day and peak at over 20 miles daily with one 10 mile run and one 12 mile or two 12 miles.
I was only taking a rest day once every other week and ran doubles at least 3-4 times a week often alternating every other day.
@@Opi395 wow
@@Opi395
Do I even run, bro?
@Bill Ding the constructor oh I know. Always heard about Lydiard having Snell do 100 miles as an 800 runner. It never fails to boggle my mind. Certainly if I had the time to run easy that often, I'm sure my running would benefit.
@@Opi395 whats your 5k pb
wish you were the coach at my school
This training talk really missed the primary purpose of doubling, in my opinion. Once you start running more than 50 miles per week, daily "easy" runs can reach a duration of greater than 60 or 65 minutes. Once this happens, these "easy" runs start mimicking long runs. Long runs are fatiguing because they deplete stores of intramuscular glycogen (long chain sugar used as energy). Glycogen storage and depletion is a major determinant of marathon and ultramarathon performance, but by doing regular runs over ~ 65 minutes, the muscles can also become glycogen deficient over a period of a week or weeks. And glycogen deficiency will cause fatigue. Therefore, the point of doing a "double" is that it separates this one heavily depleting run that reaches deep into your intramuscular glycogen stores into two only mildly depleting runs. Refueling glycogen stores after separate running efforts is much easier that refueling after a single draining effort. Assuming you eat a meal in between runs, "doubling" prevents the severe glycogen depletion that might occur by doing the same duration (or distance) in a single effort.
Maybe you should make your own video if you're so much more knowledgeable about this topic. Then there'd be a whopping 2 total videos about doubling.
Nathan Kimbro - it's constructive criticism. I'm not sure why there appears sarcasm behind your wording when he's critically thinking the efficiency of doubles.
Comments111 Constructive criticism... Whereas your comment is nonsense. Should be thankful Sage brings a community together to discuss these topics and receive feedback that is relevant; guess you aren't interested in that though by the amount of effort spent on your comment.
Is there a good way to do longer runs every day and keep your glycogen stores up?
Good post.
The miles to km conversion always messes me up when trying to absorb and make sense of the advise given... i will have to adjust. Thanx for sharing coach!
great training talk, may I suggest a talk about track intervals like 200s, 300s, 400s, and 800s for mile and 800 training
Adam Ervin Great idea! I did a talk on mile training/racing already I think...but the shorter repeats for sure. And to answer @Flynn Goodger 's question below (can't do a direct response) for younger runners the key is really to slowly build up easy mileage while having fun. Be consistent and don't get hurt! Build a large aerobic base in off-season before cross country and before track even starts. Work on finding your Tempo run speed and learn to hold back. For long term improvement it's all about the lactate threshold and running economy. Short repeats, anaerobic speed and Vo2max are just icing on the cake (and get you race ready and very fit).
Thanks alot :)
@@Vo2maxProductions if im 17 and just started running should i learn to hold back and just focus on easy miles too?
I just finished 105 miles this week doing only one run a day. I find that I recover better and it helps build more strength overall. It also makes running a shorter tempo run much easier. I used to run twice a day in college, upwards of 140 miles a week. Now, I prefer running only once a day.
Are you like a professinal runner something
Thanks for the tips Sage. Have often thought about single (longer) vs doubles in a day... older runners can benefit from a recovery between runs, as can those limited to distance while recovering from injury. Another advantage of doubles is you can fit them in before & after work...
The way he said "Here with another training talk" at the start of his videos makes me feel like I'm about to get in trouble:)
For me doubles is simply a time thing I have very limited time Mon-Thurs so splitting it up ensures I get the minimum done without affecting work while letting me pick up the slack afterwards.
My 2 cents: Thanks as always Sage. As a mid-back packer and preferring trails - family commitments sometimes leave me at a loose end and I cannot do a long run on the weekend. I substitute a hard, flat road short workout in the morning and a recovery run on trail in the afternoon / early evening. I find it is a good substitute for a long trail run.
51 year old ultra runner and I run Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Double runs on Monday and Thursday for up to 60 miles and Tuesday and Friday for over 60 miles.
The rest of the days I need for recovery, and maybe have occasional run on a Saturday.
I started two short runs a day. 3-5 miles in the morning and 3 mile early evenings. And it actually helped me with less pain and gain of distance on my long run (with shorter time). I do two runs a day three times a week plus three long runs. Since I'm only a beginner runner, I wish I saw this video half an year ago. Thanks
triathlon is great for doubles and triples, or breaking up long swim days into 3*1.5k for instance. a triple might be morning swim, lunch bike and evening run. no stress and each set a good workout. it's how you get in ur 25 hr weeks 😀
There is another benefit to doubles. If you Train lower miles, but run long events, then doubles are really useful for specific stimuli (running on tired legs). A couple of weeks ago I ran a half marathon in the morning, then went out and did another in the evening. Great stimulus for an ultra, especially because I didn't have 5 hours in one go to do a full marathon in zone 2
I hope to see you on tv during the Olympic trials. Best of luck at Boston!
I read and have personal experience that running doubles teaches your body to recover quicker and overall more efficiently. Like you said it is easier on joints and helps prevent overtraining while reaching mileage goals weekly. I was slowly increasing mileage of each run over a period of a couple months to reach 120-150 miles weekly without feeling the fatigue and other effects from long runs each week while still upping my mileage.
I'm not sure how accurate this is since it's anecdotal. It's like I was become more durable regarding miles ran each day by keeping my body in a state of aerobic efficiency.
From what I've read it might help clear lactic acid. I always find I don't do recovery work within 20 hrs wierd things start happening. That's why I hate tapering.
I would love to run twice a day if I could. But yes, I am one of those who between work/commute I work 50 hours a week. So it's really possible for me right now! I'm still happy to be able to run once a day if I can though.
There is always time, its just about priorities, also i love your picture, GO BLUE!!
Great vid as usual. I've often read about the benefits of running twice a day vs one, but it's nice to hear someone talking about the drawbacks, especially time consomption for average joes like myself!
i like doing a hard run in the morning and a lighter run in the evening. at a minimum i will do 3 separate 20 min walks throughout my day preferably after a meal. lovin life!
Very useful! I look to ur videos with all my running questions and am consistently finding the best possible info! Ur the man! Thanx again!
doubles are good for recovery, blood flow, reducing stiffness/sedentary time, building up total volume while reducing the daily training load.
Another great vid, Sage. Good luck at Boston! Hoping to meet you at the expo next weekend!
Again, an excellent talk. Precise info, precise communication. Congrats! (a fan from across the atlantic :) )
Still mind boggling that Goucher could do 100mpw in singles.
Great topic! Thanks for clarifying the different situations. I am currently at 40 MPW and hoping to develop a stronger base to move up to 50 MPW hopefully do a 50k trail race in the future. With work schedule i can only fit in 1 run a day. Thanks for the great videos and keep up the quality work.
Sage i am 14 years old and enjoy your videos and running and maby a talk on young runners and how to make a good training plan or how much running is too much. I am a 10 k runner 50:14PR looking to add to my training plan. What should some tips for young runners be. Thanks
Has anyone got any advice for what training i could do or workouts to add .would be much appreciated Thanks:)
Flynn Goodger I think at 14 or 15 you're no longer young, but sage's standard advice is long slow run, plus lactate threshold training, plus vo2 max training. the LT session is say ur 20 minute tempo. the vo2 max session is intervals. and diet! good luck 👍
Thanks, Sage.
Great Video.
Really good video that answered a lot of questions I had on Two-a-Days. Thanks!
Exactly the right video for me to watch thank you !!!!!
I'm tripping and it works good for me. Ran 15:15 for 3 mile last year with less base doing 2x a day. Now it's my 4th week and I feel great.
Breh
I'm in a strange situation and my coach only gives us workouts that total up to 15-20 miles a week in singles. I'm primarily a 3200 runner and respond very well to lots of aerobic work, so this obviously isn't enough for me. I've been running before practice in the morning by myself, just easy runs of about 4-5 miles + 8-10 mile long runs on the weekend. Is this the right call for someone in my situation? It's either 15 miles in singles or 40 in doubles.
for my next marathon i intend on doing double days , i want to increase mileage as much as i can :)
You should research how to train as an 800m runner for the 400 meter hurdles
No comment section are as helpful as the running community
Training for ultras running 2x a day is key.
It would be interesting to see what are your thoughts on cross training. Like is it beneficial? What do you think of the new fad of pool running? What are the best workouts you would do to stay in shape while injured?
He said 60 miles a week. Dude that is just not the norm for the normal runner
The first time i ran a double 10km+16km i was like holy sht it feels nothing like 26km single.
My body can't even handle to run 2 days in a row.
slow down your pace and its easier
Very nice video man..i really like it;)
One workout a day is the recommended advice but runners are a different breed from the general population in fact one workout a day is fine for them bit not for us.
What about running an equal double where the rest period between runs is equal to the time taken to run the first eg. 10km in one hour, rest one hour, then run another 10km in an hour
If I have an interval workout, wouldn't it be better to double that day in order to get that 14+ mileage that day when Im running 100 mile weeks?
Do you think it's a good idea for middle distance runners to do a higher mileage run in the morning and intervals/strides in the evening or just once a day?
once a day is good , train like rudisha , off season he runs a lof of milleage more than 60km per week ,off season is when u build ur aerobic engine
Great video! Is it possible to do i training talk about (recovery from) shin splints?
Thank you!
What is your view on back to back long runs? Is this an effective training stimulus or do the dangers of overtraining outweigh the possible benefits? What type of runners would reap the most benefits from this workout and during what phase of training would btb long runs be most useful? Thanks, and great video!
I run like 2miles and I wanna do doubles y'all over here running 6miles a run
Another question, should I run everyday? I guess I should if I mamage properly between hard and easy?
it's hard to do double runs when you already have blisters from the first one.
What is your caloric intake? If you count calories.
Just twice???
I do 12.5 miles... In 5 days
Did you have any long term injuries or niggles, like calf strains, tight hamstrings or sore lower back?? I seem to have tight calf’s comes and goes.. the more I accelerate/top end speed the more chance I can start to feel it..
Just going slow iceing 🍰
How about running twice a day - once with good intensity or standard, and once jogging(4-5min/km) for like 20-30 min for better recovery? Would that work?
I can't run long distance so I do triple runs
Dear Sage your video is good for me , I will try to run twice in day .At present my speed is 12 K per hour , how to increase the speed .
God damn I just got to my first mile and felt good about myself until seeing this video. I can't imagine running even 7 miles in a time
You get used to it. Once you get a better form (upper body is straight and slightly bent forward, feet are landing under body, and your arms and shoulders should move opposite your legs (right leg up: left arm and shoulder up etc.)- oh and your arms should not be going farther up then your heart), you step lighter (if you sound like you are stomping you are doing it wrong), you get a better cadence (amount of steps you take a minute of any amount of time really) and you learn to control your breathing (ideally it should take three steps for you to breath in deeply into your stomach, not your chest but deep into your stomach, and three steps to breath out completely).
Sorry for the mess of parentheses, as I tried to keep it as concise as possible. There is a lot more to learn out there, and this is only a fraction of what I could have told you, but I tried to hit the major points. There are a lot of finer points like food, hydration, sleep and iron that I did not cover.
To anyone that reads this, remember to keep striking midfoot and to keep running!
+Matt Hatlee Hey, good job! We all start somewhere. It just comes with time. You'll be amazed how fast you improve if you keep with it. :)
Deadlyaztec27 what do you mean by midfoot?
Hey Sage,
I would appreciate if you talked about (or even just responded to my comment here) running books. I have seen in some of your prior videos that you have showed us a few different books. Which books do you recommend?
Thanks,
-Dillon
Any thoughts on now this translates for slower runners? Meaning I may have only ran 56 miles this week but that was 8 hours of running over the course of 7 runs. Whereas a true runner would have run much higher miles in the same time or have ran for far less time. How many hours a week before focusing on doubling?
thanks for this sage! i've experimented with doubles just once a week - so that i can get in a group run as opposed to just running solo.
have you also got any thoughts on fat loading (and then carb loading) in advance of marathons/ultras?
You Vo2maxProductions covered just about "all angles" on this topic. methinks that majority of runners trying to get to a higher (elite?) level, really do need to use the "doubles" as the way to "get there." (i.e., higher mileage/faster times) U kind of implied this in your commentary.
Need to do these doubles more often meself, as I often feel/run better that 2nd run. Trouble is....I've got to do bike/swim hrs as well so, don't see me getting beyond (nor need?) say 30mi max (I prefer Km's....) in a wk, be it doubles or singles, time-wise as well. (Olympic Tri distances max, right now...10km; 13mi max planned for future 70.3 1/2 IM's)
Yet if were making videos, I'd be promoting doubles more so than you, as methinks this would benefit the "average/majority" of runners (or would be runners.....) out there, to make "the jump" to higher mileage runs for the day/week, as case may be; for I recall the pain of that first 10k I ever did. Maybe would've transitioned better to 10k via 2x5km runs or say, a 5k + 7k, before making that jump to 10k straight up (with only a 7k/8k max beforehand).
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Ok, I get what you're saying, but another question stemming from this. So you say that there is more stimulus from one run, but you're also saying that you can "get in more miles". Do these "junk miles" have any value besides just making a weekly total bigger? Is there a specific value in simply building huge mileage even if most of it is junk?
I think when he says you can get in more miles, they don't all have to be junk miles. You should minimize junk mileage as much as possible. Easy long runs should not be confused for recovery runs. Easy long runs can contribute to junk mileage, but recovery runs do not. There is a subtle difference there.
Cordis Hall I actually don' like the term "junk miles." I think all miles count for something. The fact that one day a person runs 12 miles in two runs vs. running 10 miles in one run aerobically doesn't make that much difference (and 2 miles more in a weekly total is very marginal). However, over time those differences add up....most importantly the higher mileage totals (from doubles) do make a difference in the structure and mechanics of your muscles and that will make you stronger. Also you keep doing that and maybe you burn several hundred more calories each day. Any extra mile might be 100 calories give or take! Finally we look that maybe the overall pace on two 6-milers might have been a bit faster than the single 10 mile run. So in theory yes, that would count for more. But I don't believe in junk miles...I double a lot! For most people (with time constraints who run under 60 miles a week) it's better not to though...but it does depend on running experience, injury risk, surface, speed, and what one is training for.
Vo2maxProductions The term "junk miles" has been changed from its original meaning. I think, but I may be wrong. Junk miles are like this: suppose you set up a reasonable run week with the purpose of fitness and a reasonably happy 5k. You decide to run 30mpw. Maybe a long run of 9 miles on your long day, maybe 3 to 4 miles at tempo/lactate/threshold pace or whatever they're calling it these days, and the rest of your runs are just easy and conversational.
Congratulations, you're running 30mpw. You decide that "more is better" so you start counting ALL of your miles. You run to the store to pick up a gallon of milk AND>>>>to add a mile to your volume. That's junk.
Dear I ran 43 K today in 203 minutes (means 3 hours and 23 minutes ) . In your opinion ,is this a good time or too lengthy .
are you training for an ultra. nothing wrong with doing 3hr plus runs. just depends what your goals are
Hi Sage, interested to know your thoughts on training surfaces and how you can find ways to ease the mileage load when training for a road ultramarathon.
I am training for Comrades marathon (89km/56mi). I will peak at around 115-120km per week. If I have a brilliant day, I might get at finish around 9 hours. The race is an "up-run" which means a nett altitude gain of around 1800m and climbing from sea-level up to around 800m, with the finish and around 700m. Most of the climbing is in the 1st 40km. (36km mark is at the same altitude as the finish.
At other times of the year I do quite a bit of trail running and enjoy it a lot more than dodging cars and hopping pavements. Its also obviously a lot easier with impact and builds strength for climbing. But is the reduction of impact a positive or negative aspect?
Being a 90kg runner (that's a lean 90kg- I'm 1.95m tall and carry quite a bit of upper body muscle as my main sport it kayaking. Body fat % is below 10%) my PB's over short distances are really fast compared to those when I go longer. 17:56 for 5km, 1:23 half marathon, 3:26 marathon. And when I go passed 60km it gets really hard to carry my body weight and keep running efficiently. My hip area just goes tight and I can't bounce through my stride anymore. So my question is... keep the impact and build impact tolerance or train with less impact and recover better?
I am forced to road run most of the time as training in the early morning in winter means its too dark to trail run, but should I hit the trail when I can?
So you're telling me that running once a day is better than to run twice a day?
do you run 100k+ per week? then run doubles.
Oh okay thank you
I'm 13 and I'm running by myself and have no one to train me .so I've already gotten patellar tendinitis once from amping my mileage up, so How should I amp my mileage up with out injury
Training yourself is always a good time. I'd say do some research, I know a lot of track and such in middle school is really low mileage and cross country isn't as intense as it is in high school but it'll probably be enough. If you don't do any of that I'd personally run 4-7 miles 4-5 times a week and work up to running that distance every day. Make sure you don't put in too much too fast.
+MA THANKS
Keep your mileage relatively easy and slowly build up. Slowly, if you run 20 miles one week, just pump it up a few miles the next and take the long term approach. When your that young pushing up mileage quickly or with too much intensity puts you at greater risk for injury. You have lots of time for improvement so focus on slow and steady progress. Running is a long term game, so just keep inching your way up. Also, make sure to incorporate a strength and stretching routine. The little things will add up to big success down the road.
+Jacob Fure THANKS, that helps alot👍🏻👍🏻
loved that shower twice a day is a waste of energy comment :-)
Hey sage do you think its possible to go 1:55 if I run a 2:15 in a years worth of training? If not what's the fastest you think I could achieve in the 800m
In a years worth of training I've found that myself and my peers have been able to go into the low 2s. I'd say it's more maintenance than anything. Once you exit the track season, maintain your aerobic capacity and don't slip up, and maybe do one super small speed session a week so that your legs don't forget the speed. If you train hard enough, you could do it. Just do XC in the off season, which will help a lot. Furthermore, sub2 is a bit more mental than physical, so once you do it, physically you should be able to get to it.
Shreyas Sriram first off, I never cracked 2. Ran 2:00.4 open twice. I believe it is very physical. The real question(s) for this guy is this: What is your open 400m speed? And how old are you?
So far I've gone down from 2:19 to 2:00.6 in a year, even though my focus has been on the 3200 and my top 400 has only been 54.1. The only reason I thought it was more mental is because my friend ran 2:00 several meets, but he found that a few workouts one week really boosted his confidence and then he ran 1:58 that same week. The same applied to his little brother, one year younger, who then ran 1:59 after claiming he had broken through a mental barrier. I definitely do agree that it is physical, maintaining that speed is no joke for a high schooler, but I've heard claims of mental block which is why I brought up that point. Of course, you have the better experience of course :)
Vo2maxProductions I'm a junior (one year left sadly!) And I know it will take dedication . trust me I've been hit with a sense of urgency like 4 months ago so I know everyday counts..I'm a guy to only be considered the 800/1600 meter type..not really built for aerobic speed for the 400..I probably could whip out a 57 flat right now without spikes...and I know that may not be a fast time for now, but for sure if I do my training that my Coach has for us ( Scott Hippensteel he ran for UT) I'm sure I can break 1:57 its just ....I'm literally racing against the clock now. Senior year is coming fast..and I need to train my butt off harder than ever..yet still staying injury free with weights. My age is 16 going on 17 in a couple of days.. And I know maybe running sub 1:55 is kinda out of the question...but you have no idea who my coach is nor what he has accomplished in his 26 years of XC and Track. So I pray to god I can get sub 1:57..but also a good mile time too .( mostly I am shooting for the 800 ) we had a runner from our school that my coach trained ..his name is Robert urh..and he ran 1:54 at the State meet winning it by like 1second. Which was really cool. He now runs for UT..and that's My main Goal too. To Go run for UT!
Vo2maxProductions my weekly diet consist of around 60+ miles ...based off of PAAVO...so Mondays are long runs usually 10-13..Tuesdays are CT days..usually 5-8 miles..Wednesday is usually a speed workout and sometimes its on a Tuesday too like a short tempo .. Thursdays are another CT day ..Fridays are speed or if not that its another CT day due to a meet or something along those lines....Saturdays are sometimes LD (long days ) usually 10+ miles .. Sundays..usually on your own..but it can be an off day as well. ...and I must say that I've recently just became uninjured.. So now I'm slowly building up again to what I had..I ran 21 miles last week( I know its nothing ) and I'm shooting for 30 this week and I'll probably hold it for another week..and then 45 miles...and so on....but yeah I've been doing 100+ pushups everyday ( no lie ) and I do weights as well..not heavy heavy weights of course...butt kicks as well..high knees and all these other drills we do for better form.. That's what I basically do for my running diet...and yes I do eat right as well..salads mostly everyday.. And lots of water .
Should I wear spikes for workouts?
mtednby21 I dont allow my middle school and high school runners to spike up unless it is specific fartleks, or 200, 400, or 800 etc. No distance or race simulation in spkes.
mtednby21 a couple workouts just to get your legs race ready. But most workouts for sure not...esp. longer repeats. You can get lightweight road flats for those! Save your spikes mainly for the race!
Ok thank you, i wore them for 20x200, thats an inbetween kinda is this ok
mtednby21 no
5k